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The_Werebear
2007-10-16, 11:33 AM
Alright. Most everyone has heard of Tucker's Kobolds (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/). For a one shot campaign I am doing Tucker's Revenge. The players will be the kobolds in charge of a small dungeon. It will be up to them to chase off the adventurers.

Here's the Rules as they stand.


PreSet players: Wizard, Rogue, Fighter, Cleric, Bard, all level 5 Kobolds. Each PC has 5 Experts, 4 Warriors, and 1 adept under their direct command.
Experts: level 2 ĖAll have ranks in Trapmaking, Smithing, 1 Leatherworking, mining, handle animal, survival.
Warriors: Level 2- Rankings in Spot, Listen, and Mining if they have space.
Adept: Level 3- Spells, Spellcraft, Knowledge: Religion, Knowledge: Arcane.

Spending: 3,000 GP general Purpose per player; 1,000 GP for traps per player.
Maximum 5 players.

Basic Set up.
-5 days for preparation. I tell them 7 days.
-Then, I run the party of adventurers through their dungeon
-The kobolds must guard a poorly locked treasure chest somewhere in their dungeon
-The party wins if they get the chestís loot and get out.
-The kobolds win if they kill or chase off all party members and keep their treasure.
-Required areas of the cave, which can be located anywere.
-Shrine
-Storeroom
-Kitchen
-Hatchery
-Sleeping Quarters.
-Armory
-Each Kobold must get 8 hours of sleep per day.
-Must spend two hours eating per day.

General Purpose GP
-3,000
-For expanding the caves (15gp per 5 foot square excavated)
-Purchasing better gear
-Experts start with Standard Tool Kit, Padded Armor, Light Crossbow(40 ammo), Dagger.
-Warriors start with Scale Mail, Light Crossbow(40 ammo), Heavy Pick, Light Wood Shield.
-Adepts ĖRobes, Dagger, Light Crossbow(20ammo).
-Buying extra troops (250 per standard kobold, 500 per warrior/Expert, 750 per adept, 1000 per kobold with 3 PC levels).
-Can not be pooled with other players.

Trap GP
-1000
-Used exclusively to set up traps or excavate extra space.
-Can be pooled with other players to buy better traps.

Traps
-Must be set up by Experts
-For every 100gp, it takes 2 hours to build and install.
-Kobolds must make the craft Trap check to build it, then another to install it.
-Experts can aid another.
-Experts can only work on one trap at a time.
-Warriors can aid another, but not be the sole trap builder.
-Adepts (Or magical caster of some sort) are required to aid another if the trap is magical in nature, Spellcraft check equal to trap DC.
-Failed check means an extra 5 hours is needed for repairs or gold is wasted.

-Extra Troops
-Two kobolds must be present in Hatchery to buy extra troops.
-One expert and one kobold of the type being trained.
-Producing an extra soldier(MM Kobold) requires one day.
-Producing an expert or warrior takes two days.
-Producing an Adept or Kobold with PC levels takes three days.
-Producing a Baby Chromatic Dragon takes all five days (Adept and Expert required for production).

-Extra or upgraded equipment
-Requires one expert in the armory.
-Craft check to produce the item
-Takes one hour per 100 gp of the item, rounded up.

-Digging and Modifying.
-Requires a DC 12 Profession: Mining check (str or wis) and 1 hour to clear a 5x5 space.
-Anyone can make the check.
-Must connect to a clear space (you canít just dig a pit in a space you canít get to.
-Creating an area of difficult terrain counts the same as clearing a 5x5 space.
-15 gp per 5x5 area modified.
-Walls can be built for 30 gp per 5x5x5 area. It takes 3 hours per each area.

Purchasing Animals and Monsters
-If they players wish to acquire animals, they must add a stable (New room costs for clearing space, + 100 gp for gear.
-Hunting expedition must be done.
-Survival check to find one.
-One day to find the animal if survival checks succeeds.
-300 gp per HD of the animal
-Must defeat the animal in combat without killing it.
-Handle animal check DC 10+ HD to tame it (1 day), or other skill check as appropriate (Know: Religion for Undead, Dungeoneering for Abberations).

I'll be using this Dungeon generator (http://www.aarg.net/~minam/dungeon.cgi), Random Seed: 1192551475. Put that number in and take a look at the map. I think it is appropriate for the situation, with plenty of room to expand in.

For the adventurers, I was thinking 4 9th level adventurers of the stereotypical party, Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard.


So, what I need: General critique on the idea and set up, submissions for the party of adventurers if anyone feels like it, and new ideas for stuff I forgot.

Lord Tataraus
2007-10-16, 11:58 AM
-Digging and Modifying.
-Requires a DC 12 Profession: Mining check (str or wis) and 1 hour to clear a 5x5 space.
-Anyone can make the check.
-Must connect to a clear space (you canít just dig a pit in a space you canít get to.
-Creating an area of difficult terrain counts the same as clearing a 5x5 space.
-15 gp per 5x5 area modified.
-Walls can be built for 30 gp per 5x5x5 area. It takes 3 hours per each area.

This is a little confusing. When they dig out a space, is it difficult terrain? Do they have to clear it out if it is? Personally, I'd make all the tunnels have difficult terrain and it should take less time to make them that way than making clear spaces. Also, is the default height of the complex 5ft? If not, it should be.


I'll be using this Dungeon generator, Random Seed: 1192551475. Put that number in and take a look at the map. I think it is appropriate for the situation, with plenty of room to expand in.

I think you forgot to include the link.

Kung_Fu_Kobold
2007-10-16, 12:10 PM
I Love You!

on a side note you may want to give them a little more gold, Kobolds are one of the wealthiest races around. however if you think this will give your players too much of an advantage you could use the excuse that their tribe recently donated all of their gold to a dragon.
I love the whole concept, even if it wasn't Kobolds I would love to play in a game like this
(it reminds me of the sims, though I do hope you give the NPCs more intelligence than sims, otherwise you'll get alot of puddles on the floor of the dungeon)

The_Werebear
2007-10-16, 12:31 PM
@ Kung Fu Kobold: They will have the wealth of fifth level characters as well, so they can spend that money on the dungeon in addition to the 3000 bonus gold.

@ Lord Tataraus: I'll get the link there. When an area is cleared, it's assumed to be clear. When I mentioned making areas difficult, I meant making it especially hard to move through (chopping trip pits, leaving spikes in the ground), not just leaving it unworked.

Yeril
2007-10-16, 12:33 PM
This looks very intresting, I think it would be better if it wasn't each player has their own group, but everything is pooled + a limit put on (eg. no trap more than 1000gp) since the Pc's would be working together, their dungeon should be build in that way.

I had an idea similar to this, basicly a 4 v 4 dungeon Pvp, each control one third of the dungeon, with one third being Nuetral, getting X amount of time and GP a day or somthing and spending time building traps, training kobolds and such, although the plan was kinda foiled by the fact that it wouldn't be strategy vs staregy it would be a battle of the munchkins.

tainsouvra
2007-10-16, 12:41 PM
This is a great idea, I really like it. If your players are into the whole trapping-and-strategy style of play, they should really dig this.

One little thing:
General Purpose GP
-Can not be pooled with other players. You might want to make an exception for traps on this one. Kobolds are known to work together very well, and more selflessly than you'd expect from their evil alignment, when it comes to trapping their warrens.

The_Werebear
2007-10-16, 01:14 PM
Trap gold, 1000 extra, can be pooled. I specifically included that just in case they wanted to blow it all on one, massive trap to try and blow the adventurers away as soon as possible.

tainsouvra
2007-10-16, 01:30 PM
Trap gold, 1000 extra, can be pooled. I specifically included that just in case they wanted to blow it all on one, massive trap to try and blow the adventurers away as soon as possible. I meant that it wouldn't be very out-of-character for a Kobold to throw his personal stash into improving traps as well. Your players might not even care about that option, though.

Swooper
2007-10-16, 01:37 PM
That is the most awesome idea for a single-shot campaign I've heard so far. I'd love to play in it. Or something similar at least. As for suggestions... let's see.. I'd suggest the wizard to be changed into a sorcerer, since it's more appropriate for kobolds but that would leave him without 3rd level spells. Hmm. I still think some importance should be placed on sorcerers. Maybe change the adepts to sorcerers? Or make the purchasable 3rd level PC leveled kobolds cheaper if they're sorcerers?

mostlyharmful
2007-10-16, 01:41 PM
Be sure to think about size issues, a high dex small race that has evolved to tunnel is going to be fine with far smaller than an average dex small race which lives on the surface. Ie the tunnels between areas of the lair that aren't designed for dragon access should be so small and twisty even halflings and gnomes are lost and cut off and vulnerable. With the large passages and areas for communal space and storage and whatever traped and defended the kobolds should have a maze of tunnels running in all three dimensions and interconnected in bizarre and disorientating ways (which make perfect sense to a lizard brain adapted to it and native to this particular network) which means unless the halfling rogue ants to wander off on their own and meet instant death on a variety of pointy sticks the kobolds should always have a level of mobility that completely eludes the party, both to replicate and to anticipate/defend-against.

The_Werebear
2007-10-16, 01:41 PM
That is the most awesome idea for a single-shot campaign I've heard so far. I'd love to play in it. Or something similar at least. As for suggestions... let's see.. I'd suggest the wizard to be changed into a sorcerer, since it's more appropriate for kobolds but that would leave him without 3rd level spells. Hmm. I still think some importance should be placed on sorcerers. Maybe change the adepts to sorcerers? Or make the purchasable 3rd level PC leveled kobolds cheaper if they're sorcerers?

I think you may be right about the sorcerors.. But leaving out third level spells precludes haste, which will be vital. 50 kobolds versus 9th level adventurers gets much more fair if the Kobolds are getting extra attacks from the hidey holes.

Also: I am going to be playing the Adventurers as moderately optimized. So, Generalist core only buffing wizard, Greatsword fighter, TWF rogue, and Cleric with Strength and Healing Domain, who will stop to heal others if they are under 50%. I was planning on having the party run if more than two characters go down and the last two are under 50%, or if the entire party is at 25% or less and low on spells.

@ Mostly : I'll leave that for the players to figure out. The ceilings are a 8 feet right now. I'll see if they ask to lower it.

13_CBS
2007-10-16, 02:09 PM
The RAces of the Dragon's page on kobolds might be useful to you. CHeck it out.

Bryn
2007-10-16, 02:11 PM
IE the tunnels between areas of the lair that aren't designed for dragon access should be so small and twisty even halflings and gnomes are lost and cut off and vulnerable.
WotC's Slight Build (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) variant would help with this. They are treated as Tiny when squeezing through spaces, so if you make all the corridors sized for Tiny creatures the party will have a hard time following.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 08:27 PM
If the party realizes that they are playing small creatures that can have the slight build ability, I see no way those adventurers can ever win.

Spaces for small or tiny creatures, where the adventurers are on hands and knees? That just screams for a "fill it to their chests with lantern oil and torch 'em" trap.

Or a simple "rocks fall, everyone's dead."

Don't forget, if the wizard can't see, he can't prepare spells. Make sure he ALWAYS has a light spell handy.

Rogue 7
2007-10-16, 08:32 PM
I'd try and add an additional element to it- see if you can get players for the adventurers. They'd probably have to be pretty masochistic, but they might just like the challenge. That way, you as the DM can focus on DMing and not having to control a group of PCs in the optimal way.

Of course, I could just be blowing smoke here.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 08:35 PM
I'd try and add an additional element to it- see if you can get players for the adventurers. They'd probably have to be pretty masochistic, but they might just like the challenge. That way, you as the DM can focus on DMing and not having to control a group of PCs in the optimal way.

Of course, I could just be blowing smoke here.

That could be fun.

You may want to (or not?) enforce the rules about eating, carrying water, light, and so forth, as the kobold's greatest strength is being able to trap adventurers in really nasty situations, deep underground.



You know, that would be totally unfair vs. the players playing the adventurers. I'd bump them up to level 11.

martyboy74
2007-10-16, 08:37 PM
I'd try and add an additional element to it- see if you can get players for the adventurers. They'd probably have to be pretty masochistic, but they might just like the challenge. That way, you as the DM can focus on DMing and not having to control a group of PCs in the optimal way.

Of course, I could just be blowing smoke here.

That would depend on whether he's doing this PbP or not. He could pull that off PbP, because he could have the players seperate, yet still get the responses out in a timely manner so as to not alienate the players.

Jack_Simth
2007-10-16, 08:51 PM
The ceilings are a 8 feet right now. I'll see if they ask to lower it.Players want low cielings for this. Squeezing penalties are kinda nasty: -4 to AC, and -4 to attack. If you can force the attackers to take them, while avoiding them yourself, the attackers are at somewhat of a disadvantage. Even if you can force them to merely kneel, you're still seriously hampering their mobility (and putting them at -2 melee AC). Plus, it makes choke-points easier. Additionally, they can tunnel a tight-fit tunnel (tight fit for the kobolds - impossible for anyone else) to the important stuff (poorly locked chest, required rooms).

Also - what's the surrounding terrain made from? It makes a significant difference if a simple Summon Monster III (Celestial Dire Badger) can dig or not (threshold being "solid stone").

martyboy74
2007-10-16, 08:53 PM
If the party gets Summon Undead IV+ the kobolds are screwed. Yay for incorporeal ability-draining undead!

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 08:57 PM
If the party gets Summon Undead IV+ the kobolds are screwed. Yay for incorporeal ability-draining undead!

If the kobolds can't runaway for 9 rounds, they deserve to lose.

martyboy74
2007-10-16, 09:03 PM
The allip gets to move in a straight line; the kobold have to go through the tunnels. That, combined with the fact that the allip can be summoned really close to the kobold, and that it acts immediately after being summoned gives it a bit of an advantage.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 09:12 PM
The allip gets to move in a straight line; the kobold have to go through the tunnels. That, combined with the fact that the allip can be summoned really close to the kobold, and that it acts immediately after being summoned gives it a bit of an advantage.

Does the allip have some sort of 'life sense' that lets it know where to go? Cause I think the allip could get lost chasing after the kobold. Maybe.

The_Werebear
2007-10-16, 09:32 PM
As for the Allip thing: Adventurers are core only.

If this is a success for the Kobolds (it may well be), then I may rerun it with some PCs rather than NPCs.

This is going to be a RL game, but if popular acclaim is high enough, I'll run it PBP with live players.

detrevnisisiht
2007-10-18, 08:32 PM
if you start PbPing with this idea i would love to be a Kobold

bingo_bob
2007-10-18, 09:22 PM
Yeah, your setup looks pretty good.

I would definitely play in a game like this. Wasn't there a game a (long) while back that centered around the players each building their own dungeon from scratch? It had a huge waiting list, because the idea was so well done. I'd join if you hosted a game like that.

EDIT: Yep, it was called Dungeon Lords. Links to come.