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The Giant
2006-03-08, 07:09 PM
New strip is up.

TPK_Jay
2006-03-08, 07:10 PM
W00T! ;D

Poor Roy...so many unresolved family issues... The bit about doing Violet was priceless!

meowthwack
2006-03-08, 07:12 PM
yay!

TinSoldier
2006-03-08, 07:13 PM
Haha! Cool.

That answers a couple of questions...

Thervold
2006-03-08, 07:14 PM
See if this makes first page WITH Haley's quote:
"I thought you said your dad was dead?"

Tommygun141
2006-03-08, 07:15 PM
wheee first page! *;D


This answered some questions and was pretty good. this will also give Roy an incentive to fix his sword. the club is kinda lame.

Kamakazee_Gnome
2006-03-08, 07:15 PM
Now that's messed up family issues! ;D

Edit: First page, woot. I think I'm supposed to do that.

Aemoh
2006-03-08, 07:16 PM
"I had better things to do(Like Violet, for example. Heh)"

Classic! ;D

Nicely done.

Galathir
2006-03-08, 07:17 PM
Excellent Comic! Keep up the good work.


Edit: First Page!

Sylian
2006-03-08, 07:18 PM
The time is now 00:17. Your comic is great!
This single strip isn't the best one, but it explains some things. Seems like Roy's father doesn't think highly of his sons intelligence. He didn't seem mad at Roy, though.

One thing, though. Isn't it better to die while young instead of waiting 'till one is old?

TheLastOfTheFallen
2006-03-08, 07:18 PM
Great comic = brilliant as always.

Ebon_Drake
2006-03-08, 07:20 PM
Great strip, Roy's dad is always awesome. Good explanation for his disappearance, all becomes clear. well, some things became clear, there's still plenty of explaining due on friday.

"Like violet, for example" ewww.

Sleffie
2006-03-08, 07:20 PM
I'm not sure if the mental image of Roy's dad doing some 'dirty dancing' is something that will leave me anytime soon.

Stick to Violet, man, stick to Violet!


I love the conversation between the two... yay for dialogue!

Zaku_III
2006-03-08, 07:20 PM
Roy's mom must have been...oh, the best parent ever, or Roy would be as homicidal as Belkar.

Lightman
2006-03-08, 07:21 PM
Explains why Roy's dad didn't come before...and funny at the same time!

TheLastOfTheFallen
2006-03-08, 07:21 PM
BTW, I think my new favorite line in this comic is "I weep for your dying gray matter."

n11
2006-03-08, 07:21 PM
Wizzie Awards?

I'm not going there!

Tomada
2006-03-08, 07:22 PM
Heh, funny!


EDIT:
ANd I was being too spoilerific, I think. SO... to the trash can you go, spoiler!

Kulatu
2006-03-08, 07:23 PM
THREE thumbs up! ;D

codemartin
2006-03-08, 07:24 PM
it answers 101(almost) questions which is great.

has the most colored text that I remember

relizes Roys dad is a pervert but question: Dad mentions visit to astral plane is that before or after death?

... and one of the quickest translation ever

so great strip Gaint as always

Edit:woot page two

n11
2006-03-08, 07:25 PM
Brief crypto solution:

I thought you said your dad was dead.

Edit: Yay, I picked the correct color to hide the solution. ^

Edit #2: Roy's dad would have been (most likely) alive when Roy was in 7th grade (see On the Origin of PCs)

Coldwind
2006-03-08, 07:29 PM
Well it's good but... I rolled an unnatural 1.

I didn't understand. When Roy's sword get fixed? I remember that Starmetal thingy was a crap. Who, why and how, without starmetal? I don't remember while we are at the timezone of GMT +2 (time is 01:29), with a sleepless mind.

..or I guess I have not seen a topic about it or a strip.

Edit: Ah yes, now I read it for second time. Shojo's priest's summoned him up, he's not come willingly. At least, he cannot come willingly to Roy with a broken sword. I get it now.

I take 20. :p

Elurindel
2006-03-08, 07:31 PM
Noooooooo! I missed the first post!
Good work on this one, Giant. Not your best, but damn, it's finally good to see Roy get what we've all been yelling at him on the forums to get done all these months. Fix your damn sword!

Kulatu
2006-03-08, 07:31 PM
Roy's sword wasn't fix, Eugene just summoned an illusion of the sword with a big cancelled sign over it to add to the cinematic quality of his return. He WAS an illusionist after all.

motub
2006-03-08, 07:33 PM
Nice one. I wasn't expecting that about the sword... very cool.

But really, it isn't Roy's fault he didn't get the sword fixed immediately after getting the starmetal, is it...? Oh, yes, it is (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=198).

"This starmetal thing is kind of a bust, so...."

Famous last words. No wonder Eugene is so irritable.... he must have ranted for days after he heard that out of Roy (I suppose that just because he couldn't manifest didn't mean he didn't monitor...)

But wasn't the starmetal quest given by Sabine in disguise anyway? How is that supposed to have worked out, then? Was she supposed to steal it (and not fix the sword)? Oh, wait, it was supposed to be a distraction (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=142).

But now I wonder. It is, after all, not "a fool's errand", since Roy did get it (it exists), and according to Eugene, it does have the power to at least restore the sword to "full functionality" (which presumably ordinary iron or steel would not). Just what is that starmetal stuff, then?

I wonder....

n11
2006-03-08, 07:34 PM
Well it's good but... I rolled an unnatural 1.

I didn't understand. When Roy's sword get fixed? I remember that Starmetal thingy was a crap. Who, why and how, without starmetal? I don't remember while we are at the timezone of GMT +2 (time is 01:29), with a sleepless mind.

..or I guess I have not seen a topic about it or a strip.

Roy's sword is still broken, which is why Roy's dad could not freely visit the material plane without being summoned. When Shojo went looking for guidance, Roy's dad saw the opportunity to visit via the power of Shojo's clerics.

Jack Squat
2006-03-08, 07:36 PM
Great comic Giant, on time too. Early even ;D

Roy's dad said he couldn't appear because the sword had been broken, I'm assuming that Shojo was able to summon him, which is why he was brought into this "family business". I'm assuming that's what Kulatu meant.

Xenon
2006-03-08, 07:37 PM
holy plot device, giant! good one :)

Julia
2006-03-08, 07:39 PM
BTW, I think my new favorite line in this comic is "I weep for your dying gray matter."
Agreed. Great strip, Giant!

Ashaman_Feeney
2006-03-08, 07:40 PM
;D
laughing....too...hard...for...coherent...post.
Funniest comic this week out of all I read 8)

Chadhulhu
2006-03-08, 07:42 PM
Great strip, answers a few questions I had..

Illsbane
2006-03-08, 07:48 PM
It is a fun strip, yet it sadly showcases that:

A: Roy's dad is a jerk.
B: Roy is a bit dense. As soon as I read the words 'you should've fixed what was broken' (or similar) I knew what pa Greenhilt was going on about.

Starla
2006-03-08, 07:48 PM
Roy's mom must have been...oh, the best parent ever, or Roy would be as homicidal as Belkar.

I think Roy takes after his father quite a bit. *I think Roy's attitude toward Elan mirrors the way his father talks to him. *(does Roy's dad have a name?)


edit: Grammar

n11
2006-03-08, 07:49 PM
I think Sabine's statement (while posing as the blacksmith) about needing starmetal was a wrong assumption from the start. *A blacksmith could repair the sword with ordinary metal (to masterwork quality of course, which will cost extra), and the sword might need to be reenchanted if it were a magical item.

Of course, as a fighter, Roy would not be expected to know these "sworded" details. *;D

I never could resist a pun!

Edit: Roy's dad is Eugene Greenhilt (#110) (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=110).

Gleanerizer
2006-03-08, 07:51 PM
I have to say, the facial expressions in this comic are really awesome considering the obviously restrictive style. Roy's expression of revulsion as his dad Crafts a Disturbing Mental Image (doin' Violet) is just a great face. Thankfully none of my relatives exercise that particular Craft skill on me. :P Great comic as usual.

HyperJen
2006-03-08, 07:53 PM
this will also give Roy an incentive to fix his sword.

So his dad can visit him MORE? wheeee... I'm sure Roy just can't wait...

;)

Vernal
2006-03-08, 07:57 PM
".. like Violet."
Man that got me chuckling. It's the same word play that my fiancee and I use. (Only 10 more weeks 'till she's back from Bagdad! W00t!)

Anyhow, I wondered why Roy hadn't tried to get someone else to fix his heirloom. We'll find out soon!

Edit: Last page! Woot! ;D

metalphil
2006-03-08, 08:00 PM
New strip is up.

Rockin'! By 5:09, too! Kick ass! :D

Anyway, the Violet part was great and so was the part about the sword. Also the 7th grade play. =P

ref
2006-03-08, 08:01 PM
Interesting! Is it Friday yet? :)

ElfLad
2006-03-08, 08:04 PM
Haha, that was great.

Arakune
2006-03-08, 08:08 PM
go go, unresolved family problem!

he, "that's why you didn't come in my 7th grade play right?". Priceless!

Arkadian
2006-03-08, 08:10 PM
Ahh...good to see that Roy's dad has taken full advantage of his levels in Dirty Old man... ;D

Behold_the_Void
2006-03-08, 08:14 PM
The question is, knowing this will Roy really WANT the sword to be fixed now? I'm sure he can pick up a nice Flaming Longsword +2 that doesn't have the added side effect of his father paying him a visit whenever he pleases.

Oppolo
2006-03-08, 08:16 PM
Am I missing something? Why could Violet appear all those issues ago? The way he was speaking, it seemed like the sword allowed him to appear to Roy, not for him to be allowed to see all ghosts.

SteveMB
2006-03-08, 08:19 PM
wheee first page! ;D


This answered some questions and was pretty good. this will also give Roy an incentive to fix his sword. the club is kinda lame.
I dunno; given how annoying Dad's ghost is, it may give him an incentive to just get used to the club.... ;)

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2006-03-08, 08:20 PM
Hooray! Roy's father and their relationship is one of my favorite elements of the strip. I was glad to see him back, and even happier to see them up to their old conversations. It's rather complex, taking in what we've seen of the strips and in "Origins".

On one hand Roy's father is disappointed his son became a fighter rather than a wizard. On the other his father can't help but offer advice and feels a need to visit. On one hand Roy is frustrated with how he can't measure to his father's standards on his own terms, yet still we see him looking to dad for advice on rare occasion (such as OOTS #162). In a sense, they both want to help each other out, but can't without opening old wounds.

The best part of it all, the Giant pulls it all off as comedy!

Illsbane
2006-03-08, 08:21 PM
*sigh* Though Eugene is a jerk and, from the sound of it, has been for all of Roy's life, he is his father. If Roy cared enough about his dad to carry on his oath to destroy Xykon, I doubt he'd take this golden opportunity to sever the link with the old ghost.

ladycomet
2006-03-08, 08:29 PM
Very awesome! I was wondering why Eugene was magically (hehe) able to be the uber red being of doom, and what was going on with the sword, as we hadn't heard about it in forever. All in all, a fantastic strip :D

Winged One
2006-03-08, 08:33 PM
So, his ghost is both annoying and naggy, and retains all of his spellcasting abilities? ;)

n11
2006-03-08, 08:35 PM
Eugene did give Roy the essential bit of news about Haley's true strike. Otherwise, OOTS would have perished around comic number 65 and the Giant would have had to start a new comic OOYAS (Order of Yet Another Stick).

So Eugene cares about Roy, he's just not happy about his career decision.

Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins
2006-03-08, 08:35 PM
Well, technically Roy was on his way to reforge his family sword, until SOMEONE decided to capture the OotS and drag them down to Azure City.

Bloody paladins.... If I had them all in Mason Jars, I dig dig dig 'til a big big hole was dug dug dug dug dug, and that would be the end of the bug paladin song....

nightfire8199
2006-03-08, 08:37 PM
i liked the comic giant...hilarious

geek_2049
2006-03-08, 08:42 PM
More plot building.
So far Eugene has not told Roy why he needed to talk to him, just why he has not been able to. I wonder what other attributes the Greenhilt Heirloom posseses?
While Eugene and Roy do not seem to have the best relationship they do love each other. Revenge on a lich is not something inspired by apathy, nor is coming back from the dead in spectral form to help someone on a quest. Eugene seems to like to embarass Roy, he's just trying to teach him a sense of humor.

RyanL330
2006-03-08, 08:46 PM
I likey!

/needs more Haley!

Umbral_Arcanist
2006-03-08, 08:47 PM
Awesome strip, I'd forgotten what a great character Roy's dad was..... plus the sword thing was a neat bit of info

5tephen
2006-03-08, 08:54 PM
Lots of fun, Giant!

Now, just one more comic is necessary to tie both the overarching plot strands together....

I can feel you drawing them close, but it still doesn't feel like you're stretching things- or drawing it out with too much exposition.

Well done- It must be an awesomely difficult task.

Serina_Spellbinder
2006-03-08, 08:58 PM
I don't know if this counts as a Spoiler, but I wonder if Dad will tell Roy about his kidnapped sister.

watermammal
2006-03-08, 09:04 PM
It's like you are looking into my family life? Where's the camera, Giant, where?!

infiniteviking
2006-03-08, 09:07 PM
Of course, as a fighter, Roy would not be expected to know these "sworded" details.Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

...YES!! This comic is so good I don't even know where to start. Plot, exposition, a Haley cipher, the big red angel voice, Roy getting insulted again, and dialogue that's snappy, serious, and hilarious at the same time. (And who turned the spotlights back on!?)


On one hand Roy's father is disappointed his son became a fighter rather than a wizard. On the other his father can't help but offer advice and feels a need to visit. On one hand Roy is frustrated with how he can't measure to his father's standards on his own terms, yet still we see him looking to dad for advice on rare occasion (such as OOTS #162). In a sense, they both want to help each other out, but can't without opening old wounds.Word. It's never going to be simple between Roy and Eugene. The Giant's expert handling of their relationship is part of what makes this strip so effective.

..And after that fabulous Spot Check regarding Shojo, Haley rolls a natural 1 (that's correct, isn't it?) on identifying the glowing floaty guy as a ghost. (As people have already translated: "I thought you said your dad was dead?")

Best comic on the web. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Bilbo27
2006-03-08, 09:10 PM
Clears up a bit, love the sword liked to father bit. Didn't Roy's dad show up in past comics? Why is Haley asking if she thought his dad was dead? Or did none of the OOTs gang ever see Roy talking to his dead dad? I forget. Someone please refresh my memory.

great strip bro---keep it up!!

yeah, 4th page!!

Hyrael
2006-03-08, 09:11 PM
It is a fun strip, yet it sadly showcases that:

A: Roy's dad is a jerk.
B: Roy is a bit dense. As soon as I read the words 'you should've fixed what was broken' (or similar) I knew what pa Greenhilt was going on about.

yes to A, no to B. Roy just hates unnecesarily cryptic people, in my opinion, and he has to deal with them far too often. so, he's in the habit of just disengaging his brain and waiting for them to finish. thats my hypothesis.

Hurlbut
2006-03-08, 09:11 PM
The question is, knowing this will Roy really WANT the sword to be fixed now? I'm sure he can pick up a nice Flaming Longsword +2 that doesn't have the added side effect of his father paying him a visit whenever he pleases.
Or a bastardsword or a greatsword, he doesn't exactly use a shield per see.
Edited-and doesn't use second weapon in offhand either.

Behold_the_Void
2006-03-08, 09:22 PM
Might as well go Greatsword. If you're going for a two-handed weapon Bastard Swords don't cut it.

n11
2006-03-08, 09:24 PM
Roy has already spent feats on the Greatsword (weapon specialization in #64) and Roy's too smart to start over, so I don't see him changing weapon types.

Umbral_Arcanist
2006-03-08, 09:24 PM
He also implied that he had weapon spec in the fight with the Linear guild..... ok maybe said it ouright is more accurate, but i bet its with a greatsword, seeing as thats what he used and it was the family sword....



OOOOOO, simul-post with the guy above me......

whitemane
2006-03-08, 09:41 PM
Don't forget that Roy hasn't completed his quest... *Roy didn't destroy Xykon, just his physical form. *As a result, Xykon is undead and well... *

The quests to restore his families honor just keep stacking up for Roy, don't they?

Evik
2006-03-08, 09:43 PM
Yay! i was wondering when we would get back to the sword quest :)

luilupino
2006-03-08, 09:45 PM
I just don't get it
Eugene doesn't even worry with his daughter...
Poor girl !!!

DragoonStar47
2006-03-08, 09:55 PM
Ahh, but she does not have the sword, so he cannot talk with her

TinSoldier
2006-03-08, 10:01 PM
I just don't get it
Eugene doesn't even worry with his daughter...
Poor girl !!!1. He may not know
2. Give it a chance! The Giant can only show so much at a time in a strip! ;D

Hawkeye
2006-03-08, 10:14 PM
I can't wait to see how Roy explains this to the rest of the order,
"er, right. the reason we're here is because.. err.. you know that being of pure law and good? He's actually my dad....."

Randomnesh
2006-03-08, 10:37 PM
Great strip. The look on Roy's face in frame six is priceless. :)

Reivas_Genocai
2006-03-08, 10:38 PM
Awesome strip, Roy's dad is the man

Tariskat
2006-03-08, 10:55 PM
At least Roy's dad isn't unfaithful in the afterlife. *(Not counting his wife, who was his Alive woman...) *Violet was back in the double digit strips. *She's awfully young for him though.. but on the other hand, he's a powerful, spooooky wizard.
**tips invisible hat to Giant for great comic**

SumGuy
2006-03-08, 10:59 PM
I love Roy's Dad...in a totally hetrosexual "buddies, not to mention he's a stickfigure" kinda way...not that theres anything wrong with the alternative.

Seriously, my favourite strips of OotS are ones that either involve Mr. Greenhilt directly, or mention him. I look foreward to seeing him in the next couple strips.

Conman815
2006-03-08, 11:00 PM
LOL. "It's not like the trophies were enshrined in our front hallway or anything." Also, the part about the sword is great. I just can't wait for the OOTS to get back on an adventure.

Rainee_Sue
2006-03-08, 11:03 PM
Yeah, so... am I the only one who really, really wants to see what Roy did in the school play?

rebellioussong
2006-03-08, 11:09 PM
great comic.

i hope roy finds out that he didn't succeed in defeating Xykon soon. that will be priceless.

3 cheers for the giant. parcticly on time!

RedMageDan
2006-03-08, 11:27 PM
Which comics had Violet in them? I remember her but only barely. I'd like to reread those. Thanks!

ElfLad
2006-03-08, 11:28 PM
Yeah, so... am I the only one who really, really wants to see what Roy did in the school play?


He was the tree. But don't tell Durkon.

Speaking of Patrick Swayze, I'm appalled that nobody mentioned "A very Patrick Swayze Christmas" from MST3K's "Santa Claus Conquers the Martians." Are we not nerds? If you prick us, do we not try to roll our Evasion Bonus?

Arkadian
2006-03-08, 11:31 PM
It is a fun strip, yet it sadly showcases that:

A: Roy's dad is a jerk.
B: Roy is a bit dense. As soon as I read the words 'you should've fixed what was broken' (or similar) I knew what pa Greenhilt was going on about.

Of course Roy's dad's a jerk...you'd be one too if:

1> you were dead!
2> older than 55 years of age...Dirty Old Man level prerequisite...jerk attitude is side effect.
3> had a son that couldn't put two and two together...even though two and two for his dad would be equivalent to adding polynomial equations together...a bit tough for some. ???

5tephen
2006-03-08, 11:37 PM
Yeah, so... am I the only one who really, really wants to see what Roy did in the school play?

Oh- Not by a LONG way, sister!

flamestrike
2006-03-08, 11:57 PM
Seriously, my favourite strips of OotS are ones that either involve Mr. Greenhilt directly, or mention him. I look foreward to seeing him in the next couple strips.

I love the Dad Greenhilt strips too... Giant, you capture the push and pull of love-hate relationships with relatives so well. It's like the first season of the Sopranos: my favorite character, by far, was Livia (the mother). The realistic relationship just makes the comic strip more... alive, in a way. Anyways, great strip!

Evanya
2006-03-08, 11:59 PM
I am really hooked on this comic... it is all my husband's fault. I bought him the books for Christmas and now I can't wait to read them. Looking forward to more "family issues" with the OOTS gang!

SteveMB
2006-03-09, 12:02 AM
Which comics had Violet in them? I remember her but only barely. I'd like to reread those. Thanks!
Date with Violet (www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=39). As far as I recall, that's the only time she's actually appeared.

Serina_Spellbinder
2006-03-09, 12:03 AM
He was the tree. But don't tell Durkon.

Speaking of Patrick Swayze, I'm appalled that nobody mentioned "A very Patrick Swayze Christmas" from MST3K's "Santa Claus Conquers the Martians." Are we not nerds? If you prick us, do we not try to roll our Evasion Bonus?

Yeah!!

"Open up your heart and let the Patrick Swayze Christmas in
We'll gather at the Road House with our Next of Kin
And Santa can be our regular Saturday night thing
Let's decorate a barstool and gather round and sing..."

That's all I can remember with any accuracy. :D

Mr._Blinky
2006-03-09, 12:09 AM
At least Roy's dad isn't unfaithful in the afterlife. (Not counting his wife, who was his Alive woman...) Violet was back in the double digit strips. She's awfully young for him though.. but on the other hand, he's a powerful, spooooky wizard.
**tips invisible hat to Giant for great comic**

Well, they're both dead, so for all we no, she is actually far older than he is, and just died younger.

Eternal-Darthness
2006-03-09, 12:13 AM
Exceelllleennttt....
(Rubs hands)
Is it just me or was Eugene's speech a little hard to read in the first panel? Not that it matters too much.
Something about this though: Roy should have talked to his dad LONG before now, it's his fault for not knowing what's going on. After all, cleric in party as Roy's dad pointed out long ago. He felt "unfulfilled" after defeating Xykon, why in the zarking fardwarks didn't he do a little speak with dead? It couldn't have hurt that much, and might have given him some idea of what was going on. He spent weeks hauling out the dragon treasure after all, so he had time.

Any of you people who think Roy's dad is a "dirty old man" should consider that Violet could just as easily have died a hundred years ago as recently. I doubt ghosts care about physical appearance as seen in the last moments of life/as manifested on the material plane. And if he was anything like the nag he is to Roy to Roy's mom, she probably was as happy as he was to take the "death do us part" loophole. Nevermind, ghost sex is a WIERD topic.
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer.

Blaznak
2006-03-09, 12:15 AM
Pretty funny stuff. I liked the Illusion deal and not the Actually Ascended deal.

Later...

Ironfang
2006-03-09, 12:25 AM
Has anyone mentioned the white lettering on blue seems to come off a little fuzzy? Especially in the first panel. [apparantly Attila did while I was writing this]

Hey who turned the spotlights back on?

Good comic Rich.

-What kind of afterlife you think they are running here?

-I was on the Astral plane!

I can just hear him saying:
"We used to tredge thru 9 layers of Hell just to get to Wizards school, in our barefeet even! Look at these sticks!"

P.S. For those who bitch about the late comics (btw most are just Trolls, don't feed them) "Now what are you going to do all day tomorrow ?" *::)

trebane
2006-03-09, 12:34 AM
Despite Eugene's obvious love for his son, he's still very much of the opinion that Roy is wasted as a fighter.

In fact, he might know about his daughter's disappearance, but be unconcerned. She is, after all, a spellcaster. Since she's obviously intelligent and follows after her father in career choices, then Eugene might have more faith in her ability to take care of herself; as opposed to his lost son Roy, who wastes the legendary Greenhilt intellect on bashing things with a sword.

Also, since his daughter is still in school and doesn't possess the sword, Roy is the obvious choice for paying Xycon back.

Leo_Forestclaw
2006-03-09, 12:45 AM
Yeah, so... am I the only one who really, really wants to see what Roy did in the school play?

I was wondering about that myself - glad you brought it up first.

What are the chances we can get a flash back to the play... ;D

LurkerBeneath
2006-03-09, 12:59 AM
Haley's really in trouble now - she's speaking in rhymed couplets. ;)

Eugene Greenhilt: "Priceless." That says it all, really.

Aiani
2006-03-09, 01:01 AM
Roy's dad is a funny guy. I feel bad for Roy though cause his dad says some very disturbing things to him such as his comment about Violet.

Holy_Knight
2006-03-09, 01:09 AM
Nice one. I wasn't expecting that about the sword... very cool.

But really, it isn't Roy's fault he didn't get the sword fixed immediately after getting the starmetal, is it...? Oh, yes, it is (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=198).

I don't see how that establishes that it's Roy's fault the sword isn't fixed. He was on a quest to (he thought) fix it, and as soon as that was over the Order was captured by Miko. I'm sure if that hadn't happened, he would have been trying to fix the sword another way.



I think Roy's attitude toward Elan mirrors the way his father talks to him.
Huh! That's a great insight--I think you may be onto something there. :)


Am I missing something? Why could Violet appear all those issues ago? The way he was speaking, it seemed like the sword allowed him to appear to Roy, not for him to be allowed to see all ghosts.
Simple--the heirloom allows him to bring a guest. It's like a "Eugene Greenhilt, +1" RSVP card. ;D


I don't know if this counts as a Spoiler, but I wonder if Dad will tell Roy about his kidnapped sister.
I would assume that he doesn't know Julia has been kidnapped yet. I'll say more on that in a minute.


Yeah, so... am I the only one who really, really wants to see what Roy did in the school play?




Oh- Not by a LONG way, sister!

You can add me to the list, too--that sounds hilarious! --What if Elan finds out that Roy is also a performer? They could do shows together! :D



Any of you people who think Roy's dad is a "dirty old man" should consider that Violet could just as easily have died a hundred years ago as recently. I doubt ghosts care about physical appearance as seen in the last moments of life/as manifested on the material plane. And if he was anything like the nag he is to Roy to Roy's mom, she probably was as happy as he was to take the "death do us part" loophole. Nevermind, ghost sex is a WIERD topic.
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer.
Nah, I'd say he's a dirty old man (or something) because he left his wife for another woman in the afterlife. If I were married, I sure wouldn't stop loving my wife over a minor thing like death... :)


Despite Eugene's obvious love for his son, he's still very much of the opinion that Roy is wasted as a fighter.

In fact, he might know about his daughter's disappearance, but be unconcerned. She is, after all, a spellcaster. Since she's obviously intelligent and follows after her father in career choices, then Eugene might have more faith in her ability to take care of herself; as opposed to his lost son Roy, who wastes the legendary Greenhilt intellect on bashing things with a sword.
I think he would be concerned if he knew about Julia's disappearance, but I agree that in general he's less concerned about her than he is about Roy. I would guess that Eugene sees Julia as the good child who followed her father's wishes and chose a sensible career path, and that possibly she's even a "daddy's girl", whereas Roy is the misguided and rebellious child who doesn't have the good sense to adhere to his father's sage advice. More than likely he checks in on Julia less because he sees her as having her head on straight, and Roy as not.

farewell2kings
2006-03-09, 01:11 AM
It's a funny comic strip!

Terrafire
2006-03-09, 01:22 AM
Everyone can see Roy's father now.... Because he was summoned by the clerics. Before, though, when he talked to Roy through the sword, only Roy could hear.

Platypus
2006-03-09, 01:29 AM
Did anyone manage to translate what haley says in this strip?

CommanderFalken
2006-03-09, 01:56 AM
Did anyone manage to translate what haley says in this strip?

It's on the very first page.


See if this makes first page WITH Haley's quote:
"I thought you said your dad was dead?"

w00t, Great strip as always.

Devils_Advocate
2006-03-09, 02:23 AM
One thing, though. Isn't it better to die while young instead of waiting 'till one is old?
Huh? What makes you say that? ???

If you're assuming that aging stops at death, I should think that a wizard like Roy's dad would want to die no later than middle age at least. A bonus to mental stats surely outweighs a penalty to physical stats for an incorporeal spellcaster.


Roy's dad is a jerk.
And that's part of what makes him funny!

From the last panel, it would seem that Roy has inherited his father's aptitude for long-standing grudges against relatives. Eugene should be proud. :P


*sigh* Though Eugene is a jerk and, from the sound of it, has been for all of Roy's life, he is his father. If Roy cared enough about his dad to carry on his oath to destroy Xykon, I doubt he'd take this golden opportunity to sever the link with the old ghost.
[On the Origin of PCs]Actually, Roy decided to destroy Xykon in part because his father didn't think he could do it, and Roy wanted to prove him wrong. So Roy does care what his father thinks, but largely in the sense that he wants to show him up.[/OTOOPCs]

But we do see him express gratitude for his father's guidance cryptic hint and later complain about his dad not showing up to congratulate him for defeating Xykon. And I think that Roy is pretty dead set on getting his family sword repaired in any case, unpleasant side effects or no.


Well, they're both dead, so for all we no, she is actually far older than he is, and just died younger.
Eugene could also be using his mastery of illusion to make her look how he wants.

That would be an interesting approach to dating, wouldn't it? On the one hand, you can now choose people purely on the basis of personality. On the other hand, said personality must now include "doesn't mind me messing with how she looks." I can see a lot of people disliking that. You actually might wind up dating a lot of people dissatisfied with their appearances. ("Heck yeah, make me hot!")


Simple--the heirloom allows him to bring a guest. It's like a "Eugene Greenhilt, +1" RSVP card. ;D
Obviously. But one might well ask, "Why does it work like that?" Well, because it was funny that way! That's the real answer. "It was on the way!" Heh.


Nah, I'd say he's a dirty old man (or something) because he left his wife for another woman in the afterlife. If I were married, I sure wouldn't stop loving my wife over a minor thing like death... :)
Woah, who said he ever stopped loving his wife?! I maintain that even someone who anticipates that they'll be together in the afterlife can remarry without ever ceasing to feel love for his or her late spouse. We can assume that Roy's parents didn't die at the exact same time, and that that gave both of them time to become involved with other people before they were reunited. We don't know the current state of their relationship, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were still on good terms.

And, frankly? They spent probably at least a few years on different planes of existance. The sad truth is that it can be hard for such long-distance relationships to work out. So don't be too harsh.


Everyone can see Roy's father now.... Because he was summoned by the clerics. Before, though, when he talked to Roy through the sword, only Roy could hear.
Nah, he only showed up when Roy was on watch and everyone else was sleeping. No reason to think that no one else would have been able to see or hear him.

WTFWWD
2006-03-09, 02:47 AM
Yay Illusions!

Yay Innuendo!

Haley Cypher...sigh...

Still a solid A! Keep up the good work!

Nerd-o-rama
2006-03-09, 02:55 AM
Sigh...

See if this makes first page WITH Haley's quote:
"I thought you said your dad was dead?"
I also figured that out as soon as I looked at the comic. Lucky guess, admittedly, but still...

Illsbane
2006-03-09, 04:18 AM
yes to A, no to B. *Roy just hates unnecesarily cryptic people, in my opinion, and he has to deal with them far too often. *so, he's in the habit of just disengaging his brain and waiting for them to finish. *thats my hypothesis.

... Intentionally not making an effort at comprehension is worse than being dense, in my opinion. o_o;


I can't wait to see how Roy explains this to the rest of the order,
"er, right. the reason we're here is because.. err.. you know that being of pure law and good? He's actually my dad....."

Elan then said: "Ooooh Roy, you're a half-Celestial?! Lemme see your wings, Roy, c'mon, c'mon, I wanna seee!"
Upon which Roy said: "Ack! Elan, get your hands out of my shirt!"




Of course Roy's dad's a jerk...you'd be one too if:

1> you were dead!
2> older than 55 years of age...Dirty Old Man level prerequisite...jerk attitude is side effect.
3> had a son that couldn't put two and two together...even though two and two for his dad would be equivalent to adding polynomial equations together...a bit tough for some. ???


To 1) Eugene was a jerk even during his own lifetime, remember?
To 3) There are more graceful ways of dealing with that, if you're willing to make the effort. Apparently pa Greenhilt wasn't and still isn't.

Sigh ... But family relations are never easy.

Alfryd
2006-03-09, 05:00 AM
New strip is up.
Good, good. I can't help the feeling that the real bomb has yet to drop, however.

Interesting! Is it Friday yet?
Don't hold your breath.

Nah, I'd say he's a dirty old man (or something) because he left his wife for another woman in the afterlife. If I were married, I sure wouldn't stop loving my wife over a minor thing like death...
Lust, Romance, and Attachment are entirely different sentiments that can and will operate completely independantly of eachother.

Elan then said: "Ooooh Roy, you're a half-Celestial?! Lemme see your wings, Roy, c'mon, c'mon, I wanna seee!"
Upon which Roy said: "Ack! Elan, get your hands out of my shirt!"
And where, I would like to know, are his Bloodline levels?

Vampire_Boy
2006-03-09, 05:20 AM
Woah, who said he ever stopped loving his wife?! I maintain that even someone who anticipates that they'll be together in the afterlife can remarry without ever ceasing to feel love for his or her late spouse. We can assume that Roy's parents didn't die at the exact same time, and that that gave both of them time to become involved with other people before they were reunited. We don't know the current state of their relationship, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were still on good terms.

I thought the whole marriage thing was 'till death do us part'. Seriously, the dude has no obligations to stay even remotely close to his spouse in the afterlife - in some cases it would be exceptionally cruel if marriage meant that you also have to spend together the whole afterlife - yikes!

Delgarde
2006-03-09, 05:53 AM
yes to A, no to B. Roy just hates unnecesarily cryptic people, in my opinion, and he has to deal with them far too often. so, he's in the habit of just disengaging his brain and waiting for them to finish. thats my hypothesis.

Indeed. He's actually a pretty smart guy, presumably well capable of studying wizardry else his father wouldn't be making such a deal about him choosing not to. He's just not very patient, preferring action to talk.

tee_kay_one
2006-03-09, 05:55 AM
Really cool one, Giant!

The spotlight thing is strange, why are they still on? Might be a movement detector in the court room... or a "important-plot-revelation"-detector... ;D
(and obviously they auto-aim at living beings, because Greenhilt Senior doesn't get his own spot)

Anyway, Shojo seems kinda jumpy, out to the balcony, few words, back in. Why did they go out there in the first place?

Delgarde
2006-03-09, 05:58 AM
I thought the whole marriage thing was 'till death do us part'. Seriously, the dude has no obligations to stay even remotely close to his spouse in the afterlife - in some cases it would be exceptionally cruel if marriage meant that you also have to spend together the whole afterlife - yikes!

That's exactly what Eugene said at the time, in #39. "Til death" was the deal, now he's free to play the field...

Kish
2006-03-09, 06:01 AM
B: Roy is a bit dense. As soon as I read the words 'you should've fixed what was broken' (or similar) I knew what pa Greenhilt was going on about.
I think Roy can be forgiven for not keeping his sword quite as much at the front of his mind as this forum does. (How many threads are there about when he'll get it fixed, the significance of its looking off-color, and so on, now?)


Woah, who said he ever stopped loving his wife?!
We know Roy's mother is dead too. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=15)
And, "Hey, the deal was very clear: 'Til death do us part. Once I shuffle off the mortal coil, I'm free to play the field." doesn't sound (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=39) very loving to me, somehow. More like he's glad to no longer be married.

Delgarde
2006-03-09, 06:01 AM
Anyway, Shojo seems kinda jumpy, out to the balcony, few words, back in. Why did they go out there in the first place?

Theatrics. Balconies are a traditional place to take someone aside for a private conversation. But then they had to go back in to meet dad.

Daavi_Tues
2006-03-09, 07:29 AM
I expect a soap opera scene soon, featuring Roy and Roy's dad.

"Papa, why didn't you love me?!"
"It was business, son, BUSINESS!"

motub
2006-03-09, 07:35 AM
I don't see how that establishes that it's Roy's fault the sword isn't fixed. He was on a quest to (he thought) fix it, and as soon as that was over the Order was captured by Miko. I'm sure if that hadn't happened, he would have been trying to fix the sword another way.

Umm, not exactly. If you look at the strip (198 ), what happened was that Roy already had the starmetal (from 188 ). We talked about something else for a few strips, while they moved the dragon hoard out of the cave (which took "WEEKS", according to Belkar). Fine.

Now at that point (you've completed the quest), the normal thing to do is to return to the questgiver (the smith) to receive your XP and reward. But Roy decided not to do so ("Well, this starmetal thing was a bust, so let's just go back to town and cash in our dragon loot.").

It's true that on their way "back to town" (but were they going back to the same town where the smith was?) they were stopped by Miko, but Roy had already made his mistake-- deciding that because the starmetal was only a small item that it was insufficient to do the job. Heck, he could have gone back to town (alone), repaired the sword, then come back to help in the "weeks" that it took to move/collect the treasure for portability. (Of course, that wouldn't have been funny, but that's not quite the point atm).

But nooooooo, he knows too much to manage his priorities (complete the quest first, collect treasure later-- it's not like anybody else was around to steal it out from under their noses since the team was apparently not disturbed during their time there). Even Belkar commented on Roy's apparent inability to make having a decent weapon of some sort a priority (#146)-- and that was when they had just started on the quest to retrieve the starmetal.

So Roy hasn't replaced (even temporarily), his broken weapon, and when he completes the quest to gain the starmetal to repair his broken weapon, he doesn't immediately run back and do so.

I tell you, Eugene must have been livid.

fithi
2006-03-09, 09:39 AM
Great, Giant! Poor, poor Roy with all of his unresolved issues.

JazzManJim
2006-03-09, 09:39 AM
(does Roy's dad have a name?)


edit: Grammar

His Dad's name is Eugene.

I don't know what his Grammar's name is. ;)

Shatteredtower
2006-03-09, 09:56 AM
Actually, I hope the Giant has addressed what I'm seeing as a sticking point in the last two strips.

In #290, Shojo said, "The gods smiled on me the day your bard blew up Dorukan's gate. They sent me a being from the Upper Planes, who told me everything I needed to know about you and your party."

In #291, Roy's father says, "Look, I didn't WANT to drag this Shojo guy into our family business," and, "But you didn't give me much choice! Maybe if you'd took the time to fix what you'd broken, I wouldn't have need to."

And strips #113-120 show us that the sword was shattered on the same day that the gate was destroyed.

So either Shojo has his dates wrong or Roy's father is either lying or astonishingly impatient. How long did he wait from the time the sword was broken until he got Shojo involved? An hour? Two?

I'm sure the Giant's already got this worked out, but I'm completely stumped as to how it's possible.

silverdreamdancer
2006-03-09, 10:04 AM
Consider that Hayley is by far the most perceptive member of the OOTS I think her comment about Roys Dad being dead might actually be relevant.

As far as I remember most dead (not undead) spirits can't actually cast their magic after death. Maybe she has realised that the illusionist isn't actually dead. It depends what sort of spirit Roys Dad is.

Also, what happened to that army of Hobgoblins since we last saw them? They won;t have just been sitting around.

TinSoldier
2006-03-09, 10:19 AM
Eugene Greenhilt reminds me of George's dad on Seinfeld.

Greebo
2006-03-09, 10:33 AM
Umm, not exactly. If you look at the strip (198 ), what happened was that Roy already had the starmetal (from 188 ). We talked about something else for a few strips, while they moved the dragon hoard out of the cave (which took "WEEKS", according to Belkar). Fine.
It took "weeks" because the Giant was unable to post a comic for a couple of weeks. In game/comic terms, they were in the dragon cave all that time. No opportunity to fix the sword and no fault to Roy because he was somewhat metaphysically stuck in the cave until TG got back.


Now at that point (you've completed the quest), the normal thing to do is to return to the questgiver (the smith) to receive your XP and reward. But Roy decided not to do so ("Well, this starmetal thing was a bust, so let's just go back to town and cash in our dragon loot.").
Roy was convinced that he needed the starmetal to fix the sword. Convinced by the linear guild. The starmetal they found was tiny, so Roy assumed that it was insufficient. That he assumed such does not conclusively imply that he would discontinue his attempt. It only leaves that as one possibility.

That he assumed it was insufficient is the only conclusion you can draw. You are ASSUMING that Roy was abaonding the repair of the sword but you don't *know* that he was. He might have intended to take the tiny lump back to the "smith" expecting the smith to say "not enough, go get more". We don't know what he really was going to do, nor CAN we know unless TG reveals Roy's intentions, either IC or OOC.

The assumption of Roy's intentions fundamentally discredits the rest of your conclusions. Any conclusion based on false premises is a false conclusion (even if its correct, its still false, logically).


It's true that on their way "back to town" (but were they going back to the same town where the smith was?)
Technically no, because the smith wasn't the smith, but Roy says "BACK" to town. Implication: Same town. (Just the "smith" isnt there)


they were stopped by Miko, but Roy had already made his mistake-- deciding that because the starmetal was only a small item that it was insufficient to do the job. Heck, he could have gone back to town (alone), repaired the sword, then come back to help in the "weeks" that it took to move/collect the treasure for portability. (Of course, that wouldn't have been funny, but that's not quite the point atm).
Roy could NOT go back to town on his own - not IN comic because Roy is the leader of the OotS and leaders don't go running off abandoning their group for personal reasons (he already learned that lesson with Elan's capture) and not OUT of comic because like the rest of the party, he was frozen in time because the giant was absent.


But nooooooo, he knows too much to manage his priorities (complete the quest first, collect treasure later-- it's not like anybody else was around to steal it out from under their noses since the team was apparently not disturbed during their time there). Even Belkar commented on Roy's apparent inability to make having a decent weapon of some sort a priority (#146)-- and that was when they had just started on the quest to retrieve the starmetal.
At this point you are attributing fault and thought processes to Roy based on your assumption which is already baseless. As such, this sarcasting commentary is based entirely on how you want to see things and is not worth debate.


So Roy hasn't replaced (even temporarily), his broken weapon, and when he completes the quest to gain the starmetal to repair his broken weapon, he doesn't immediately run back and do so.
Again, leaders don't go running off leaving their party behind. (especially not with Belkar)

I'd like to think that you're actually trying to portray his father's perspective of what happened - but there's too much metagaming in the discussion for me to really believe that.

LaValle
2006-03-09, 10:38 AM
What I regret is that Elan is not there. I can see him going "Dun dun DUUUN!!!" after Roys dad reveals that Xykon is still alive...uh, undead. Sigh, well, you can't have everything. Still, nice comic, can't wait for the friday one.

KaosDevice
2006-03-09, 10:49 AM
Well that was fun. I've been looking forward to Roy getting the ol' sword fixed, I know if I was a fighter having to run around with a great club would annoy the buh-jeebers out of me.

One thing I noticed though, if you look Roy's dad, isn't it easy to imagine him slowly bobing up and down in the air as he talked. An animated gif of that would be halarious.

motub
2006-03-09, 10:56 AM
Actually, I hope the Giant has addressed what I'm seeing as a sticking point in the last two strips.

In #290, Shojo said, "The gods smiled on me the day your bard blew up Dorukan's gate. They sent me a being from the Upper Planes, who told me everything I needed to know about you and your party."

In #291, Roy's father says, "Look, I didn't WANT to drag this Shojo guy into our family business," and, "But you didn't give me much choice! Maybe if you'd took the time to fix what you'd broken, I wouldn't have need to."

And strips #113-120 show us that the sword was shattered on the same day that the gate was destroyed.

So either Shojo has his dates wrong or Roy's father is either lying or astonishingly impatient. How long did he wait from the time the sword was broken until he got Shojo involved? An hour? Two?

It was likely a fallback plan. It's not like Eugene had a lot of choices, and he had to communicate with Roy. It took Miko quite a long time to track them down, and even more time to get them to Azure City, have the trial, etc, etc. Also, the Guard knew (through their diviners) that the Gate had been destroyed, and by whom. They would have gone after the team anyway, but at least this way it was all a sham-- just think what it would have been if there had been a real "Being of Pure Law and Good" delivering judgment in the case.

If Roy had repaired the sword in the meantime (during the time that it took Miko to track them down), Eugene could have told him that he had to find Xykon again (assuming that that's what he has to tell him), and then Roy and team would have been even more unfindable by the likes of Miko, if they went haring off trying to locate Xykon themselves-- at which point Dad probably would have said something along the lines of, "You must go to Azure City, " in an appropriately cryptic and reverse-psychology-type way.

Any way you slice it, it serves everyone's purpose to get the team in alliance with the Guard-- after all, only Shojo (probably) knows where the remaining gates are, and it is to be expected that Xykon is going for another gate. The team doesn't have any knowledge of the gates or their location, and doesn't have access to The Diary the way Xykon does. In fact, everyone Good is just lucky that Xykon needs time to decipher the location of the remaining gates, and The Diary doesn't explicitly state them outright.

But the whole charade was probably "Plan B", since you'd think that Roy would have repairing his now-even-more-heroic family heirloom high on his To-Do list, especially considering that the only reason he "destroyed" Xykon in the first place was because he was so upset that Xykon broke it!

Kanashimi
2006-03-09, 11:01 AM
Awesome comic, I think I can see the plotlines beginning to re-merge.

Thank you.

Mr._Whopper
2006-03-09, 11:03 AM
hillarious. i like the part about "no mercy!! KILL KILL!! Where the dad then says priceless. definately continuing oots's 290 (wait... 291 now) great comic streak.

Lasombra
2006-03-09, 11:23 AM
hehehehehehe

*falls over*

Supagoof
2006-03-09, 11:56 AM
Behold the power of Greenhilt, the sword, not the man, who is of his own power.

Funny strip. I don't want to see how astral stick comics can get it on, but now I'm am curious.

:P

Nyxx
2006-03-09, 12:29 PM
Ok, I'm here to thank for the last couple of strips (I'm late, but I only found the time now ^^;;).

The shoujo "not being a paladin but a 14th level aristocrat" and "not even being lawful" was priceless. He's one of my favorite characters now. Hinjo - a paladin - taking his place someday makes me kind of wary, but his personality makes me think it will all be fine somehow (I really liked Hinjo too. Once OOTS leaves Azure city I'm really gonna miss him ^^).

So, that's pretty much it. How on earth did Roy's mother ever put up with that crappy Eugene guy? Is she a planal being of pure patience now or something?

Kish
2006-03-09, 01:12 PM
I'm pretty sure Roy wouldn't be carrying the pieces of the sword if he didn't still mean to reforge it, and considering how badly he freaked out when it was broken, I very much doubt he would just suddenly decide to leave it broken without saying anything about it.

evileeyore
2006-03-09, 01:43 PM
I have no doubt that Shojo will have the sword reforged as partial and advance payment for taking on this task.

Along the way Haley will be reunited with her father. Nale will get his Plan underway, and eventually Xykon will be defeated once and for all and Eugene will have all the booty call time he needs...

Doug_Lampert
2006-03-09, 01:48 PM
Roy's dad is a funny guy. *I feel bad for Roy though cause his dad says some very disturbing things to him such as his comment about Violet. *
I don't understand people who find this disturbing. Or who comment on Roy's father and craft disturbing mental image. Unless you are adopted your parents had sex one or more times. If you did't know this maybe you need to have a serious talk with those parents about just where babies come from.

That his father isn't still with his mother may be disturbing, but it shouldn't (IMAO) be any more disturbing because he's with someone else. It is seriously unlikely that the current generation has discovered ANYTHING new about sex and how to do it. People have put a lot of ingenuity into this over many thousands of years. They've been writing books on the subject for quite awhile. Some of the books even have illustrations.

My father had a vasectomy when he was tired of having children. I assume mom and dad know about the birds and the bees and had a reason to suppose without the surgery there might be more coming.

Remember that one advantage to a horse drawn carriage or wagon over a motor vehicle is that the horse often knows where it is going and can thus be allowed to drive itself, leaving the occupants free to engage in other activities without bothering to pull over. Your great-grandparents may well have taken advantage of this. This may be why you had grandparents at all. Your grandparents may well have owned a car, possibly they figured out that with that awkward gear shift in the center of the front seat there were some things that worked better in the back seat, this may be why your parents were born. And so it goes, every one of your relatives with children has done it, birds do it, bees do it, even educated flees do it.

KaosDevice
2006-03-09, 02:47 PM
I don't understand people who find this disturbing. Or who comment on Roy's father and craft disturbing mental image. Unless you are adopted your parents had sex one or more times. If you did't know this maybe you need to have a serious talk with those parents about just where babies come from.


It is one thing to know about it intellectually. It is quite another one to have to picture it mentally. That is where the humor and distress come from.

saraswati
2006-03-09, 04:04 PM
Actually, I hope the Giant has addressed what I'm seeing as a sticking point in the last two strips.

In #290, Shojo said, "The gods smiled on me the day your bard blew up Dorukan's gate. They sent me a being from the Upper Planes, who told me everything I needed to know about you and your party."

In #291, Roy's father says, "Look, I didn't WANT to drag this Shojo guy into our family business," and, "But you didn't give me much choice! Maybe if you'd took the time to fix what you'd broken, I wouldn't have need to."

And strips #113-120 show us that the sword was shattered on the same day that the gate was destroyed.

So either Shojo has his dates wrong or Roy's father is either lying or astonishingly impatient. How long did he wait from the time the sword was broken until he got Shojo involved? An hour? Two?

I'm sure the Giant's already got this worked out, but I'm completely stumped as to how it's possible.

That's an interesting point, but I think you are reading the wording too closely. The quote in #290 is two separate sentences. 1) The gods smiled on me the day the bard blew up the gate. and 2) The gods sent me the being from the upper planes.

the events in #1 are the cause of #2 happening. It does not require that the being was sent on the same day. IMHO it doesn't even imply that. I would read those two sentences to say "When you blew up the gates it was a lucky day because it caused the gods to send me the being from the planes at some later time."

Not trying to nit-pick, it just seems to me that there is no plot contradiction or impossibilities when you read it in a more straightforward fashion.

Since I haven't chimed it yet: Great Comic!

I'm also a little curious as to whether or not Senor Greenhilt Senior will tell Roy about Julia. But I would put it past Roy's father to just decide to work on it on his own, because Roy is too incompetant to fix it. He may have lots of plans and schemes and just never tell Roy about it.

completely non-spoiler prediction: Eugene's lack of trust in Roy will cause vital information to be withheld, and much hilarity will ensue.

theKOT
2006-03-09, 04:17 PM
Sorry, I gotta disagree. Quoth Roy:

... But you now claim to have known about us before you unleashed Miko. So which one is the lie?
To which Shojo replies:

A very good question. The gods smiled on me the day your bard blew up Dorukans gate. They sent me a being from the upper planes, who told me everything I needed to know about you and your party.
This implies Shojo learned about the OOTS before he unleashed Miko, and the only way that could have happened is if Roy's dad had appeared before Shojo's conversation with Miko.

Hyrael
2006-03-09, 04:21 PM
It is one thing to know about it intellectually. It is quite another one to have to picture it mentally. That is where the humor and distress come from.


well said. In OoPCs, we discover that eugene met roy's mother late in life, and the kids were an accident
quote:
roys dad: and can you blame me? check out the body on that girl!
::casts illusion of roy's mother, young and wearing a bikini::
Roy (averting his eyes): NEVER show me mom like that again!

TinSoldier
2006-03-09, 04:29 PM
Sorry Kish, I gotta disagree.

This implies Shojo learned about the OOTS before he unleashed Miko, and the only way that could have happened is if Roy's dad had appeared before Shojo's conversation with Miko.Were you replying to Kish or to saraswati? They have the same avatar.

Anyway, the gate being destroyed, Eugene showing up, and Miko being sent a-questing could have happened on three different days, right? Not necessarily within the same 5 minute time span.

theKOT
2006-03-09, 04:34 PM
Not really. 120 shows Shojo talking to Miko mere minutes after the explosion, and he already knew about the OOTS by then through Eugene. So it did have to happen in a very small window of time.
Kish? Who is that? I never mentioned her in my post... ;)

Melnor
2006-03-09, 05:12 PM
O' my gosh! Giant! I had SO many chuckles there!! That could possibly have been my favorite strip ever!! I don't know if anyone's told you, but your skills for dialogue are astounding! The in-text jokes just kept coming! Ah, thanks for brightening my day!

Fillbert
2006-03-09, 05:37 PM
Why does Roy's father weep for his dying Grey matter. Isn't Roy supposed to be the most intelligent member of OOTS? I mean, an Illithid passed over V to feast on Roy's Grey Matter? Just a thought...... :-/

The_Kobold_Hero
2006-03-09, 05:38 PM
He he. . . Nice one Giant! 8)

SteveMB
2006-03-09, 06:16 PM
Not really. 120 shows Shojo talking to Miko mere minutes after the explosion, and he already knew about the OOTS by then through Eugene. So it did have to happen in a very small window of time.
The events contrasting with Elan's comments (Xykon getting away, the remaining Linear Guild getting away, Miko getting her orders) didn't necessarily happen at exactly the same time as Elan's speech -- the intercutting sort of gives that impression, but there's a bit of wiggle room if the assumption that they happened at the same moment proves problematic.

theKOT
2006-03-09, 06:24 PM
Sure, and I thought of that, but Miko says(metahumorish) that it took her eighty strips to catch the OOTS. Hopefully the Giant will weigh in on this one or subtly provide the answer in a comic. He did it with the Shojo age thing!

Edit: Dratted homonyms....

Hyrael
2006-03-09, 06:37 PM
Why does Roy's father weep for his dying Grey matter. Isn't Roy supposed to be the most intelligent member of OOTS? I mean, an Illithid passed over V to feast on Roy's Grey Matter? *Just a thought...... *:-/
No, V is the most intelligent member of the OOTS. what roy has is the most balanced mind. V has low charisma, elan has nothing but charisma, belkar's wisdom is low, making him angry, haely has slightly too high charisma and not enough int or wis to ballance (like elan, but much less so), and dhurkon has almost nothing but wisdom, making him filling but bland. roy has decent int, okay wis, and reasonalbe cha.
my theory on roy's mental ability scores: int 15, wis 13, cha 12.

Holy_Knight
2006-03-09, 06:50 PM
Eugene could also be using his mastery of illusion to make her look how he wants.

That would be an interesting approach to dating, wouldn't it? On the one hand, you can now choose people purely on the basis of personality. On the other hand, said personality must now include "doesn't mind me messing with how she looks." I can see a lot of people disliking that. You actually might wind up dating a lot of people dissatisfied with their appearances. ("Heck yeah, make me hot!")
Yes, it would be an interesting approach, and particularly shallow as well.



Obviously. But one might well ask, "Why does it work like that?" Well, because it was funny that way! That's the real answer. "It was on the way!" Heh.

Well, yes, that was my point. :)



Woah, who said he ever stopped loving his wife?! I maintain that even someone who anticipates that they'll be together in the afterlife can remarry without ever ceasing to feel love for his or her late spouse. We can assume that Roy's parents didn't die at the exact same time, and that that gave both of them time to become involved with other people before they were reunited. We don't know the current state of their relationship, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were still on good terms.

And, frankly? They spent probably at least a few years on different planes of existance. The sad truth is that it can be hard for such long-distance relationships to work out. So don't be too harsh.
It may have sounded harsher than I intended it. Suffice to say, I wouldn't marry someone if I were in love with someone else, living or dead.



Lust, Romance, and Attachment are entirely different sentiments that can and will operate completely independantly of eachother.

That's why I wrote "or something", to signify that "dirty old man" wasn't really quite the right term.



I thought the whole marriage thing was 'till death do us part'. Seriously, the dude has no obligations to stay even remotely close to his spouse in the afterlife - in some cases it would be exceptionally cruel if marriage meant that you also have to spend together the whole afterlife - yikes!
Yes, that's exactly what Roy's dad says. But obligation or not, the question is: If you really still loved someone, why would you want to "play the field"?

On another note, the "till death do we part" thing makes less sense in a world where afterlife existence is an empirically established occurrence, than it does in a world where death might be each person's final end. Not that it makes no sense at all, but it's more dubious as a reason to end a relationship.



And, "Hey, the deal was very clear: 'Til death do us part. Once I shuffle off the mortal coil, I'm free to play the field." doesn't sound (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=39) very loving to me, somehow. More like he's glad to no longer be married.
I agree, Kish.



Now at that point (you've completed the quest), the normal thing to do is to return to the questgiver (the smith) to receive your XP and reward. But Roy decided not to do so ("Well, this starmetal thing was a bust, so let's just go back to town and cash in our dragon loot.").

It's true that on their way "back to town" (but were they going back to the same town where the smith was?) they were stopped by Miko, but Roy had already made his mistake-- deciding that because the starmetal was only a small item that it was insufficient to do the job.
But even if that was a mistake to assume, it doesn't establish that Roy wasn't going to keep trying to fix the sword. He thought that he didn't have enough starmetal, but there is nothing in what he says which implies that he wouldn't have tried to discover more of it. All we know is that he was headed back to town, and didn't think he had enough material to reforge the sword. He very well may have kept trying, but Miko's appearance precluded that from happening.



Even Belkar commented on Roy's apparent inability to make having a decent weapon of some sort a priority (#146)-- and that was when they had just started on the quest to retrieve the starmetal.

So Roy hasn't replaced (even temporarily), his broken weapon...
I agree that Roy was irresponsible with not having a temporary replacement weapon. But that doesn'thave anything to do with his attempts to fix the Greenhilt sword.


What I regret is that Elan is not there. I can see him going "Dun dun DUUUN!!!" after Roys dad reveals that Xykon is still alive...uh, undead. Sigh, well, you can't have everything. Still, nice comic, can't wait for the friday one.
That would be a nice touch. :)

Albion
2006-03-10, 01:07 AM
Why does Roy's father weep for his dying Grey matter. Isn't Roy supposed to be the most intelligent member of OOTS? I mean, an Illithid passed over V to feast on Roy's Grey Matter? Just a thought...... :-/

As I see it, V has pretty much NO street smarts and that sort of thing, but has the highest intelligence on the, well, theoretical plain... her intelligence is too high for us mortals! Something like that perhaps?

Tawkis
2006-03-10, 01:46 AM
As I see it, V has pretty much NO street smarts and that sort of thing, but has the highest intelligence on the, well, theoretical plain... her intelligence is too high for us mortals! Something like that perhaps?
V's intelligence would undoubtably drive us all mad.



However I would say that Roy's Int score is equal (or very near equal to) to V's.

Alfryd
2006-03-10, 05:11 AM
...my theory on roy's mental ability scores: int 15, wis 13, cha 12.
That seems reasonable. 'Course, being able to cast CSW with Owl's Wisdom, but no divine spells of his own, technically means Belkar must have a wis of exactly 10. It's at this point that I intentionally fail my knowledge(game mechanics) check.

Delgarde
2006-03-10, 05:40 AM
So Roy hasn't replaced (even temporarily), his broken weapon...

Yes he has - or haven't you noticed the greatclub he's been carrying around for a while now? He didn't have it when Belkar called him on it, but presumably crafted it from a tree branch sometime later. Not as effective as his greatsword perhaps, but still a perfectly good weapon.

Delgarde
2006-03-10, 05:51 AM
V's intelligence would undoubtably drive us all mad.

MAD, I tell you. MAD!

Alfryd
2006-03-10, 06:45 AM
Now that I think of it, I am skeptical that Shojo could have the manipulative skills to stage an elaborate hoax trial under his cohorts very noses, but not find some way to contact Roy & Co. relatively peacefully. *I reckon revealing the Snarl background must have been the primary motivation for the trumped-up charges.

JazzManJim
2006-03-10, 09:53 AM
Now that I think of it, I am skeptical that Shojo could have the manipulative skills to stage an elaborate hoax trial under his cohorts very noses, but not find some way to contact Roy & Co. relatively peacefully. *I reckon revealing the Snarl background must have been the primary motivation for the trumped-up charges.

If I'm not mistaken, Shojo said exactly that during the trial. Apparently, the Snarl history was knowledge to be kept secret, but since the Order was on trial for their lives, the Big Being (you know, Eugene) approved the revelation. Mostly now, we can figure that this was a show for the Paladins' sake.

terrainmonkey
2006-03-10, 10:26 AM
Now that I think of it, I am skeptical that Shojo could have the manipulative skills to stage an elaborate hoax trial under his cohorts very noses, but not find some way to contact Roy & Co. relatively peacefully. *I reckon revealing the Snarl background must have been the primary motivation for the trumped-up charges.


alfryd--

its a dm thing, we do it all the time. that's one of the kewl things about this strip. it follows a twisted dramatic DND logic. Dungeon masters do stuff like what shojo did. was it reasonable? not really. funny as hell for dramatic purposes? hell yeah! also, about the trial, and the snarl reveal: that's how we DMs get players to do stuff. otherwise they would sit around town doing nothing. it's called back story and flavor texting. hell, if i didn't explicitly tell players why something had to be done, they would never go on the adventure in the first place. Then, listen to a bunch of back story and flavor text about some "Snarl" thing? uhhh no. most player responses would be "okay, enough talk, lets get to the action, where's the dungeon lets go kill monsters."

page 10 WOOT!

Illsbane
2006-03-10, 10:32 AM
Yes he has - or haven't you noticed the greatclub he's been carrying around for a while now? He didn't have it when Belkar called him on it, *but presumably crafted it from a tree branch sometime later. Not as effective as his greatsword perhaps, but still a perfectly good weapon.


Heh ... ^^* Isn't it ironic that the leader of the Order of the Stick now simply wields ... a big stick?

As for V's Intelligence score; he/she's personally said it was at 18 during the little by-play with the Illithid. Even if V. is now level 12, it couldn't be any higher than 19.

Nekkira
2006-03-10, 10:51 AM
Love this comic, but it is going to make me re-read all the previous ones again...because I though Roy was going to get his sword fixed when Miko snatched him. But from previous posters I'm apparently confused.

Cancermage
2006-03-10, 10:55 AM
OOTS is awesome again. I didn't know ghosts had sex lives. And great reference to "Ghost" and "Dirty Dancing". Both movies my mom watches :P !

BFP
2006-03-10, 12:30 PM
This one is pretty nice. I don't suppose 'red angel' is a Chesterton reference, by any chance?

Krytha
2006-03-10, 12:51 PM
so ghosts maintain all abilities they possessed in life? Otherwise Roy's dad wouldn't be able to create that illusion

Kanashimi
2006-03-10, 01:01 PM
so ghosts maintain all abilities they possessed in life? Otherwise Roy's dad wouldn't be able to create that illusion


That is my understanding of it. My DM even had a ghost who continued progressing after death and spiritification. Bound to his spellbook.

I thought Roy was on the quest to fix his sword when he got picked up, but then wasn't that a Red Herring set by the Linear Guild? After all, the "blacksmith" who told Roy his sword was made out of starmetal turned out to be Sabine. It may be a normal sword after all.

evileeyore
2006-03-10, 01:20 PM
Hmmm. I just noticed something. I think Eugene is bound to the circle. He hasn't left it yet.

Now most ghosts have to have a "focus" or a trinket or a haunt in order to operate in the real world. Like a Ghost that Haunts a house or a battlefield, or a Ghost that haunts a locket or a spellbook.

If that link is broken, the Ghost is ussually banished. So when the Sword was broken, Eugene couldn't come and pester his son... err manifest with Sagely wisdom.

So what if the Sapphire Diviners asked the Gods "Hey you guys, who did this?" and in the curcle manifests Eugene. He explians it all, after all he would have ben watching to see that Xykon was destroyed and when the Sapphire Diviners called out for answers Eugene parlayed a few Divine favors and was delivered to them.

Now he just to kick Roy into action to go destroy Zykon, and fix the damn sword.

Freeman333
2006-03-10, 01:32 PM
Roy's mom must have been...oh, the best parent ever, or Roy would be as homicidal as Belkar.

Dude--that is possibly the truest thing ever posted on these boards. Let's hear it for Roy's mom, the only thing standing between Our Fearless Leader and a massive Great Cleaving rampage that would leave nary a lich unsundered...

kriklaf
2006-03-10, 01:48 PM
Why does Roy's father weep for his dying Grey matter. Isn't Roy supposed to be the most intelligent member of OOTS? I mean, an Illithid passed over V to feast on Roy's Grey Matter? *Just a thought...... *:-/

I think this comment has less to do with Roy's true mental attributes and more to do with the fact that Eugene wanted Roy to become a wizard, rather than a fighter (a class he seems to hold in general contempt.

Hyrael
2006-03-10, 02:23 PM
well, straight-up fighter is a litle boring. *the only thing fighter is good for is 'pulling a Thog' for thoes bonus feats. *anyone can do it, even sorcerors and wizards. *fighter is ideal for multiclassing. *but why be a fighter with Weapon Finesse when you cam be a swashbuckler, or a fighter with TWF when you can be a samurai?

all fighters can do is combat. lets compare that to other combat classes:
Barbarain: can also act as tracker and survival expert
Paladin: back-up healer and "face"
Ranger: stealth man, tracker and oh-so-much-more
Hexblade: Diplomacy and Knoweledge (arcana) as class skills, curse makes them great duelist, and the spell Phantom Threat makes them the rogue's best friend.
Swashbuckler: great style, mobility and social skills
Samurai: intimidate abilitiles

Kish
2006-03-10, 02:54 PM
but why be a fighter with Weapon Finesse when you cam be a swashbuckler, or a fighter with TWF when you can be a samurai?

*snicker* Someone I know (who also posts on these boards, incidentally) argues that prestige classes shouldn't exist. You just (probably inadvertently) posted an excellent argument for his position.

Wrecan
2006-03-10, 03:27 PM
well, straight-up fighter is a litle boring.

Well, I've played plenty of fighters in 3.5 and have never been bored and have never sought a prestige class. The other classes are great, but a well-constructed fighter is a joy to play. All the other classes sacrifice something for those other abilities.

I've never been bored playing a fighter.

Zeekar
2006-03-10, 03:30 PM
So where did Haley go between panels 1 and 2? (She's obviously not next to Roy anymore, since he's got a solo-sized spotlight...)