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Abzalon
2020-01-06, 03:54 AM
Hello everyone,

So I'm facing a bit of an issue here. I have this scenario where my players need to stop the summoning of a big bad demon with a real chance of failing, I could simply go "as you get to the sacrificial chamber you hear the chanting get frantic while sulfur blows in your face" but I find it a bit too "convenient" to always have the demon being summoned when the players arrive.

One of my idea was to have a pool of time going to a room would cost one point, searching 2 points etc... and once the pool is empty, the summoning is done and here comes the demon. But that's a first draft, what do you think would be appropriate? is it even a good idea to hurry the PCs that way?

thanks for your input

Firest Kathon
2020-01-06, 04:35 AM
In my opinion a timed mission is hard to pull off. In your suggested approach, I see the problem that the players do not know (I assume) in advance how much time they have, so (depending on the information they have before) either they will rush through the dungeon at max possible speed, or it will feel to them quite arbitrary that they did not reach the final encounter in time. If you later reveal the information about the time pool, they might even have the feeling "oh, we failed because we decided to search that one room that contained nothing useful", which they might feel is unfair (they spent their resource, of which they did not know at that time, without getting anything in return).

In a timed mission, there are three relevant stages of success:

Early enough to easily interrupt the proceedings without time pressure
Just in time to interrupt the proceedings
Too late

I would approach such a mission so that the second outcome, just in time, is the most likely, as in my opinion it would make the most interesting story. I would also design a way how the characters will be able to achieve the first outcome, but only when handling earlier challenges in a really successful way (e.g. save enemy instead of killing them, find a creative solution for a blocked passway).

The last option, being too late, should only occur if the characters fail completely (TPK or having to retreat) or when they make decidedly poor decisions (spend several days in the neighboring town instead of adventuring). I would explicitely not punish the PCs for making a tactical retreat once or twice, e.g. after an encounter went bad due to bad luck etc., as long as they do not rest after each simple encounter. Depending on the size of the dungeon this might be just a short retreat to heal up and maybe restock consumables, or even a full rest.

Finally, the second option comes in two degrees:

The ritual (or whatever) is in the final stages, but there is enough time to fight (minutes to hours)
There is a risk that the ritual is finished unless the battle is won really fast (rounds)

This degree could be decided based on the behavior and decisions in the last few rooms before the final encounter. For example, if the PCs defeated the previous encounters very fast, likely by spending a lot of resources, and did not rest, then the final combat can last longer and they would realistically only fail if they lose the battle. If they took a long time and rested shortly before the final encounter, the end of the ritual could be more imminent (but they also have more resources to finish the battle quickly).

Kol Korran
2020-01-06, 07:08 AM
Timed missions... Hmmm.

There are a few crucial components:
1. Player perceptions:
The players need to know they can fail. This may seem obvious, but in some groups it is expected that they will get there "just in time" to either prevent the summoning, or to fight what is being summoned. These type of games follow a narrative convention and expectation. In these groups the perception of the challenge is "get through the obstacles on the way to the big fight", instead of "get to the big fight ON TIME!".

Make it absolutely clear to the players that the time challenge is real, and not just to add drama/ tension. I suggest to just say so plainly "Guys/ Gals, I'm fine if you don't get there by time. You can fail in this."

2. Characters perceptions:
The characters need to know they can fail, and that there is a time limit. Without this knowledge, there isn't really a choice. Again, make it clear to the characters in game.

3. Marking the passage of time:
Similar to your basic suggestion, I suggest making a simple table. It should have 3 columns and another visible aid:
- The first is the steps/ "in world" passage of time, to show progress. This can either be in actual time units (minutes, hours or so), or in steps for the summoning ritual (Writing the infernal diagrams, making the blood sacrifice, gathering of the acolytes, joining of the elders, alignment of the stars or so on...). Note that these don't need to be too strict, but give you a rough estimate.

Also, look over the challenges you expect the party to go through, in order to get to the summoning chamber scene: The most direct route (This will most likely require good information/ preparation, and commitment to "get there as fast as possible") and the reasonable route (Not coming fully prepared, but making an effort "on the go" to get there fast, and not be distracted too much). I suggest to have the time for the ritual be a bit more than the reasonable route. This enables for a small amount of blunder, but being able to make up for it, and will reward the group who does commit fully to the endeavor.

- The second is in terms of "in world" signs of the passage of time. In here you write various signs the PCs witness, to alarm them of the progress. "The smells of brimstone grows stronger/ you start hearing distant tortured screams/ The walls alight with dark fire/ minor fiends reach into this realm". Some of these can have mechanical effects. (If going by the examples above- you can force roll saves v.s nausea/ the scream may distract or cause fear effects/ gettiing near a wall may cause fire/ hellish damage/ random encounter and scripted encounters may have minor fiends joining). Note that you don't need as many such signs as you have stages. Just enough for the PCs to realize "Oh oh... The ritual is progressing!". For example, if you have say... 12 stages on the first column, the perhaps 3-4 such markers for the PCs.

- The third may be for actions the players (Or antagonists?) may take to postpone/ Hasten the time passage- stopping the furnace that feeds the fires of hell/ disposing of the bleeding victims/ killing major opponents. Antagonists may also hasten the process- finishing some side ritual, channeling vile energy, and more... Note how much each such steps may affect the process, but none of those should stop it downright.

- About the visible aid. The Angry GM once wrote a very interesting article about "the pile of doom" (https://theangrygm.com/hacking-time-in-dnd/). You can rad the article, but basically- he adds a "visible to the players" aid, that enables them to sense that their actions cost time. They spend too much time on one thing- it adds a dice to the pool. This greatly enhances the tension, and makes the passage of time more "real" to the players, the challenge more present.

You don't need to use the exact method, but anything that can make it clear to the players (Not characters!) that time is a resource, and that it is passing.

4. Designing the challenges:
In a timed mission, there are usually 2 main conflicts:
- Going the direct route (To save time), vs. exploring (For XP, Loot, info and more).
- Resource management (Since replenishing resources is usually not an option, or an option that costs time).
Sometimes, a GM can complicate matters by adding side goals:
- A side quest, which while not helping in the main mission, may help later (Say... save an important NPC from prison, gain an important item, or such)
- A sub goal, which can help with the main mission (By destroying hellish altars the summoned fiend will be weaker, or any of the goals that may postpone the ritual completion).

From a GM's perspective, you need to be very wary- Unlike computer games, you have no "save" button, and these kind of mission can go downhill, very fast! The don't get a second try, tension is usually high, and it's ESSENTIAL that the players feel the challenge was fair, even if they failed in it.

So, examine closely to see if the challenges on the way to the summoning chamber are fair enough, and not overly taxing. A little trick is to down grade the first few challenges, and have a "reserve" for later challenges, to beef them up a bit if the first challenges went over too smoothly.

If you do include side goals and/ or side quests, the "harm vs. benefit" considerations of these options should be VERY clear. It's stressing enough to know that undertaking these side ventures would cost the party (In time and other resources), and may hinder their success, without making the price obscure (This is to avoid a feeling of unfairness later on).

5. Last, but not least:
Understand that even if the party fails to get to meet the time criteria, that the final challenge should still be exciting, and that the party should advance/ get something substantial at the end.
Why? Because of the build up. Timed mission have an inherent major build up, and even if the party screwed up, in order for there to be an enjoyable experience from the adventure, there need be a climax, and even though the party just had a setback, they should be able to get SOMETHING useful out of it all.
For example: Even if the party fails to get to the summing on time, an the great fiend flies to wreck havoc (or whatever), the party should have a good climactic battle with the cultists and their leader, loot, and possibly a religious/ research journal with some insights to the ritual, the fiend, and how to solve this mess later on.

I hope this was helpful.
Good luck!

MoiMagnus
2020-01-06, 07:08 AM
One of my idea was to have a pool of time going to a room would cost one point, searching 2 points etc... and once the pool is empty, the summoning is done and here comes the demon. But that's a first draft, what do you think would be appropriate? is it even a good idea to hurry the PCs that way?


Yes and No.

No, because you probably don't want your players to start thinking in a minmaxing way for time, and starting to think "searching the room is overpriced in this system, so even though this would be the logical action we won't do it".

But there are some similar systems that works well, like keeping "what time is it?" in hours increments (or increments of 10min, if you need a faster pacing), and assume most action/sequence of actions the PCs take will last one hour (or 10min). This assume the PCs have a vague notion of "at which hours it became too late" (the answer is often midnight).

Something that worked quite well in our campaign is the "colored time" approach:

At each "round" (of flexible amount of time, depending on the plot), each player describe what their character is doing.
After each of the first "round", you put a green token to count the number of round that passed (or multiple of them if their actions were really long).
When you feel like the resolution is approaching and that the PCs should stop wasting time (3-4 green tokens in our games), the new tokens you add are now orange. (Don't forget to signal it by saying something along the line of "you don't have a lot of time remaining"). The PCs should not manage to resolve your plot during the green era, but if they manage to resolve it during the orange era, reward them for being quicker than expected.
Latter (2-3 orange tokens in our games), put red tokens. Red tokens means "you have one or two round left before being too late".

The fact that each color is shorter than the previous one give a real feeling of urgency. But the fact that round are flexible in time length means that most of the time we reached the goal during the red era (so "Just in time"). Moreover, as a player, while we have a rough approximation of how many rounds we will have (between 7 and 10), this is still vague enough so that we don't feel like we must optimize it as if it was some kind of puzzle to solve.

Pleh
2020-01-06, 09:13 AM
Honestly? I usually use a pseudo timed structure.

Like recently some players raided a gangster's base for intel on where they were housing contraband for some slavers the party wanted to take down.

After the raid, they were interested in making some side cash to replenish supplies after the mission, but I told them that it was only a matter of time before the gangsters pieced together what info was and move the contraband to keep it safe from the PCs. Basically, they need to finish their mission or have progress reset. Side quests can come later

JoeJ
2020-01-06, 02:47 PM
First, decide whether you're going to make sure the PCs get to the climax in time or leave it to the players to do (or not). If you're going to do it, no problem. You can add hints here and there that time is passing, but in the end, by fiat, the PCs will arrive exactly when they should.

If you're going to let the players manage the time, have something to show them how much they have left. Your idea of having a "pool" of time points will work, but it needs to be on the table where the players can see it and judge for themselves how to use the time they have left. (Assuming you've calculated correctly the amount of time they need to start with to have any chance at all.) Be aware, also, that doing it this way means there's a real possibility the PCs won't arrive in time, so you need to know what happens if that's the case. If you're not comfortable with letting the PCs fail, you should probably not choose this option.

Knaight
2020-01-06, 03:26 PM
I'd go system specific with this - steal clocks from any of the games that use them (the AW, BitD families especially), make them player facing, fill segments for long actions, rests, etc.

oxybe
2020-01-06, 03:56 PM
Something about OSR play finally clicked with me, as I was working on a personal fantasy heartbreaker project, and that's breaking up your game into "rounds", based on the scope of what the PCs are doing. I'll copy-paste from a thread I made pre-Christmas on this realization (in that it just never clicked for me before now in my 20+ years of gaming).


Abilities and spells usually work on a 6sec round by 6sec round up to a minute basis in D&D, with most fights usually being done under a minute.my own game works on a minute round, but in the greater scheme of things the distinction doesn't matter.

The next time bracket i would consider "the dungeon round", or 10 min. This is enough time to give a room or corridor a good searching or take a breather. several spells obviously made to help explore last this long, as well as those meant to mask your presence.

The next time bracket would be "the exploration round", which is one hour. This is long enough to search a small cluster of houses or thoroughly check one house or small cave unimpeded. It's also the duration a torch lasts. a few spells and abilities last this long, but they tend to be more utilitarian in nature

The fourth time bracket is "the travel round" of 8 hours, the time needed to travel 1 hex of well-maintained road. this is the duration a hooded lantern lasts on a pint of oil. rare are the spells and abilities that last this long. most people "work", "relax" and "rest" in travel rounds. maybe not all at once, but it's a decent generic breakdown of a day.

finally the last bracket is "the day", or 24 hours.

I don't know if it was because I was in the amateur designer mindset but it finally clicked on how I can breakdown player actions and spells into these time blocks and get a good idea of how long they've been in a dungeon or figure out if they're early or late outside of narrative convenience for that evil necromancer's ritual. It helps manage (some) player resources much more easily.

10 combat rounds to the dungeon round.
6 dungeon rounds to the exploration round.
8 exploration round to the travel round.
3 travel rounds to the day

This is something that has been present in OSR/pre3e but never clicked with me, even though I started with 2e (though in my defense, 12 yo French speaking me with English 2e books made for a, uh... interesting experience, lol) and just now finally clicked.

-so the party sets out at the 9th bell of the morning to find a cave guarded by some goblins that have been harassing the local farmers. they have a vague idea where it is so after a bit of rolling it takes 3 hours to find it.
-they precast some buff spells, fight and take a breather (10 min).
-after lighting a torch, they then search the initial cave and find a badly hidden door (10 min)
-carefully travel down a few corridors (10 min)
-beat up a few more goblins and as they try to take a break another group heard the noise and jumps them(10 min)
-take break to search and fortify the room (10 min)
-No goblins come out, they go deeper. they find a goblin warboss has setup defensive position and a fight takes place (10 min).you warn their torch is close to going out, they light a new one in case and search the room, find treasure and make their way out of the goblin warren.
-takes about an hour to exit the forest and as they approach town they hear the 2nd bell of the afternoon. The party confirms the successful quest, take their payment and go prepare for a nice warm supper later that afternoon.

It's not that much more "accounting" on the GM side if you break up these actions in manageable chunks according to scope if tracking time is important to you.

LibraryOgre
2020-01-07, 02:04 PM
So, back in the 4e days, there was this thing called "Fourthcore", and an adventure called Fane of the Heresiarch. (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/200065/SND02-Fane-of-the-Heresiarch?affiliate_id=315505) (I played another of them, under the same DM, but I cannot recall the name of it). In those, you were also running against time, and so the Fourthcore games just set a real-world timer. Get into a stupid discussion about Naruto? Timer is running. Spend a long time fighting some Harpies? Timer is running. Gotta poop? Timer is running. As the timer ticked down, players were under a LOT of pressure, and the optimal solution wasn't always "Kill all the bad guys" but "Grab the thing we need and ****ing run because the timer is ticking."

That real-world timer let game time be a little more abstract. You could take full-on rests and they only took a couple minutes of game time, because that's how long it took to take a rest in the real world... say "We rest", shuffle HP and per-encounter powers, and boom, you're back in the game.

If you want to create a time pressure, put the time pressure on the players.

MoiMagnus
2020-01-07, 02:32 PM
So, back in the 4e days, there was this thing called "Fourthcore", and an adventure called Fane of the Heresiarch. (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/200065/SND02-Fane-of-the-Heresiarch?affiliate_id=315505) (I played another of them, under the same DM, but I cannot recall the name of it). In those, you were also running against time, and so the Fourthcore games just set a real-world timer. Get into a stupid discussion about Naruto? Timer is running. Spend a long time fighting some Harpies? Timer is running. Gotta poop? Timer is running. As the timer ticked down, players were under a LOT of pressure, and the optimal solution wasn't always "Kill all the bad guys" but "Grab the thing we need and ****ing run because the timer is ticking."

That real-world timer let game time be a little more abstract. You could take full-on rests and they only took a couple minutes of game time, because that's how long it took to take a rest in the real world... say "We rest", shuffle HP and per-encounter powers, and boom, you're back in the game.

If you want to create a time pressure, put the time pressure on the players.

I have mixed feeling about real-time-pressure.
1) It is convenient as a DM, especially in conventions where the time slot are predetermined. You need a 4h adventure? After 4 real-time hours, the PCs dies from whatever curse in on them (or after 3hours, the traitor betray the team if the PCs didn't found him beforehand). You have two tables playing in the same universe and affecting each others? First table to arrive on a location in real-time is also the first one to do so in-game. Etc.
2) As a player, it is a "all-or-nothing" in term of immersion for me. If the game was already immersive, the time pressure will push me even more to "think like my character", and improve the game by maintaining a good pacing. If the game was low immersion (like most D&D games I've played), the time pressure will break apart any immersion that remains for me, feel unfair and frustrating ("come on, my character is a 50yo wizard that routinely fight for his life using his intellect, I should not even need to give him orders for him to win this simple encounter, punishing him for me not being as smart and reactive as my character in in-universe is just unfair!")

So be cautious with it, and don't forget that just because you (the DM) put a timer doesn't need you should absolutely and strictly respect it (you can interrupting it temporarily, especially if you have something lengthy to do which should not cost time to the players, you can be flexible if some corner cases occurred)

Thrawn4
2020-01-07, 02:45 PM
People always talk about being "on time" or "too late", but you can easily introduce certain levels of danger, so that the players can choose whether they want to take the risk of looting another room.

level 1: the cultists have not summoned the demon yet, but you still have to fight them
level 2: the demon is summoned, but not under the cultists full control yet
level 3: the demon obeys the cultist's orders
level 4: the demon obeys the cultist's orders, who have had enough time to catch their breath

Synesthesy
2020-01-07, 03:35 PM
I usually decide before what is the outcome. Sometimes, I use the Ozymandias route: yes, you heroes did everything well, only that the enemy did his job like 20 minutes ago.

The main problem with dealing with time is that some people dislike feeling rushed in real life. You must be sure on what you are doing here.

A good way for dealing with this problem, IMHO, is putting the choice right before your PG as the Doctor would do: you want to arrive in time? Well, just run!
You want to take your time? This is a strathegic choice, but your opponent will do their one against yours.
Giving them a simple binary choice is easier to understand and more relaxing for the real people playing.

But maybe your friends like to be on rush, in that case, the point system or a real time based can be good enough.

JoeJ
2020-01-07, 04:47 PM
"come on, my character is a 50yo wizard that routinely fight for his life using his intellect, I should not even need to give him orders for him to win this simple encounter, punishing him for me not being as smart and reactive as my character in in-universe is just unfair!"

This argument has never made sense to me. Unless you're new to that game, you're vastly more experienced at game combat than your character is. They've only had their adventuring lifetime; you've had that plus the adventuring lifetimes of all your previous characters, plus any combats you've run as a GM (if you have). And you're not under life-or-death pressure sitting at the table. And even if the GM insists that you have to state what you're doing immediately when it's your turn, you still have a lot more time to think about it than your character does. All that should more than compensate for the character having a higher base intelligence.

JeenLeen
2020-01-07, 04:57 PM
The few times I've had it work well were when we were in one room and the ritual was happening in the next room. Basically there were X rounds until the ritual was complete (or moved to the next stage, akin to Thrawn4's recommendation.) We didn't know what the X was, but we knew something bad was happening and the longer we took, the worse it'd be. Usually it was we had to fight the baddies in room 1 to get to the ritual room. Presumably we could choose to rush ahead, but then whoever is room 2 would have backup.

One of them worked particularly well in that we got into the ritual room at such a time that the Thing was summoned but not fully controlled, so its adverse effects were impacting both us and our enemies. We still had to kill it, but it made killing its summoners easier.

I think it gets a lot harder if you have an entire dungeon to explore, or a time in days. How to measure it is the toughest part, but I think it'd be okay to, out-of-character, explicitly tell the players there is a real timer, not a video game-esque timer that means you get there at the right plot point regardless of how long you take.

boomwolf
2020-01-07, 05:23 PM
This is one of the reasons session 0 of a campaign is needed.
You have to let the players know that time is a thing in your game, and things will happen with of without them.

That being said, I find time fudging to be valuable.
There is, as stated, only 3 critical states, the "early", the "late" and the "just in time"
However, you can stretch them to fit your fancy.
If a ritual summoning is happening, there is no real difference between one round late, and seven. Thus, you should always be just one round late.
Just in time could be any time you want it to be, and unless the PCs know the schedule, you can move it a bit.
Being early, doesn't matter if its an hour or minutes, so pick whatever fits the story.


Basically, if you want a race, a good idea to keep both stakes and the narrative value is to use time bands that lead to the three predetermined scenarios, for example:

The party took less than 30 rounds to cross the dungeon-they arrived early and the ritual is nowhere near done, and winning the fight is all that's left.
31 to 35 rounds-the ritual is nearly complete, they have one opportunity (round) to disrupt it.
36 or more, they are just a bit too late, they ritual was finished mere seconds ago, and now they have to deal with the consequences.

Eldan
2020-01-08, 04:06 AM
First of all, I'd give the players a warning that there is time pressure. Because if they don't know it, it will just feel like an asspull to them. Have them find a letter from a cultist saying "The summoning will be tomorrow at dawn" or something. Give them six hours to show up then make them aware that there will be four ours of travelling time. Put the pressure on them from the start.

Then, I'd go with your pool of "time points". I've done that before, it works. Keep them vague, though. For yourself, do something like "after four time-consuming actions, the summoning starts. After six time consuming actions, the demon is here". Then, when the players go summon reinforcements, cross off one time-consuming action. If they decide to scout the path first, that's another. If they scry first to find the name of the cult leader, another. And so on. And it also allows them to rush there to be there early and prepare an ambush before the cultists arrive.

Jaeda
2020-01-08, 09:41 PM
I'll second everything that Kol Korran says, especially the Angry GM time pool system, which went through a few revisions into the Tension Pool (https://theangrygm.com/making-things-complicated/) system. Put a bowl on the table. Whenever they dink around, toss a d6 into it. Whenever they do something that would plausibly cause things to go bad (make a lot of noise, let a baddie escape, etc) pick all of the dice and roll them. If the pool ever reaches 6 dice, also pick them up and roll them, then empty the pool. If any of the dice show 1, a complication occurs (which in your case might be the cult making progress on their ritual or doing something else to impede the heroes, like summoning some lesser demons as obstacles or kidnapping an ally as a sacrifice).

Slipperychicken
2020-01-09, 04:38 AM
As a player, I just want to be outright told about how much in-universe time we have. However that's packaged (intuition, advice, knowledge of enemy's customs, overheard villain conversation, recommendation of questgiver, etc), I want to know a number relating to how many rests/days/etc we can take safely. If we get something like "wererats tend to eat their captives after about a week of not receiving their ransom demand" that works just fine.

We already have real-time pressure from session length constraints. If we want to actually finish the content sometime this year (before OOC circumstances end up killing the game), we already need to make compromises in terms of what our characters do aside from progressing the main story. So if the players are at all aware that they will not have infinite sessions to finish the campaign, then such a timer is likely to be redundant beyond simple things like getting people to choose actions on their turns.

Vorpal Glaive
2020-01-09, 09:30 AM
First of all, I'd give the players a warning that there is time pressure. Because if they don't know it, it will just feel like an asspull to them. Have them find a letter from a cultist saying "The summoning will be tomorrow at dawn" or something. Give them six hours to show up then make them aware that there will be four ours of travelling time. Put the pressure on them from the start.

Then, I'd go with your pool of "time points". I've done that before, it works. Keep them vague, though. For yourself, do something like "after four time-consuming actions, the summoning starts. After six time consuming actions, the demon is here". Then, when the players go summon reinforcements, cross off one time-consuming action. If they decide to scout the path first, that's another. If they scry first to find the name of the cult leader, another. And so on. And it also allows them to rush there to be there early and prepare an ambush before the cultists arrive.
+10 This.

1. Set expectations for the players
2. Inform the characters
3. Start the clock

Abzalon
2020-01-13, 04:43 AM
Hi Everyone,

First off, thank you all very much for your insights, they were deeply appreciated.

We played on saturday and we had a blast.
So, in the end, I went with a bowl in the middle of the table in which I through a dice every now depending on their action and the time they took.
I had told them in advance that it would be a mission on a timer and that the dice would be the representation of it (it could be any marker really but I only had dice with me and they make a nice sound that immediately brings attention to it).

I had steps in my invocation which could be seen in the gameworld and it went approximately like that :

0 dice - Ritual Starts - Rain starts to pour on the region
5 - First sacrifice - Lightning starts to strike randomly, each hour outside the players get 10% chance to be hit (even in the middle of the forest, under a tree etc...)
10 - Second sacrifice - the winds starts howling and strikes fear in all those who hear it as they are under the impression to listen to the scream of the Damned.
14 - Third sacrifice - the storm picks up, but now the rain is replaced by acid rain around the ritual site (dealing damage each minute you stay outside)
18 - Fourth sacrifice - cracks in the ground let demons through
20- Last Sacrifice - the Big Bad Demon is summoned

in the end they finished the fight with 18 dice in the pool, the PCs saw the sacrifice of the one they were looking for with their own eyes (I first planned to have him sacrificed last, but chose to do it randomly they still did all they could to save the last one, a green wyrmling).
to finish of the fight, I had the BBEG give the final push to the ritual with her last breath when they stroke her down, using her life instead of a sacrifice to allow the Big Bad Demon to pass his arms through the portal and try to force his way in, with the players trying to prevent it from their side (which they did in the end).

Lots of fun ^^

Again thank you all, have a great day :D

Psyren
2020-01-13, 11:24 AM
I'd say there are three important considerations for running a time limit scenario:


1) What is the overall purpose of the time limit?
2) How much time do the players have, and how is it being measured (i.e. what increments?)
3) What are the consequences for failure?

Things to think about:

In general, a time limit is there to add tension and stakes to a climactic encounter, but since that's not the only way to do that, you have to stop and consider if a time limit is the best tool for the job. It could be there for an out of game reason too, such as a hard limit on playtime (e.g. a convention or tournament). Your reason in #1 will help determine the answers to #2 and #3.

Regardless of why you use it, the limit and how it's measured are very important because it affects the players' desired behavior and the engagement you want out of them. Do you want them to have time to explore the dungeon methodically but not sleep there and recover all their resources? Use a time limit measured in hours. Do you want them to explore a little but not dawdle? 1 hour, or some multiple of 10 minutes, might be more appropriate. Do you want to minimize exploration and have every combat feel like a hectic race? A time limit measured in minutes or even rounds might be more appropriate then. And so on.

#3 is especially important. Does failing the time limit mean game over? The demon lord or evil god shows up and the players have no hope of victory? Does it mean they can fight but chances are very slim? (Note: I recommend not bothering with fighting if there is truly no hope, it's just a waste of everyone's time, and combat takes a lot of time.)

I personally prefer a multiple degrees of failure approach (see below.)


People always talk about being "on time" or "too late", but you can easily introduce certain levels of danger, so that the players can choose whether they want to take the risk of looting another room.

level 1: the cultists have not summoned the demon yet, but you still have to fight them
level 2: the demon is summoned, but not under the cultists full control yet
level 3: the demon obeys the cultist's orders
level 4: the demon obeys the cultist's orders, who have had enough time to catch their breath

This, and I would add even more layers:

Level 1a: Ritual is 0-25% complete. If you arrive now, you have to fight the cultists and their guards.
Level 1b: Ritual is 25-50% complete. Still no demon, but the barrier is weak enough that it can help out a bit - this takes the form of various penalties for the PCs or for any good-alignhed creature in the area, as well as simulating effects like unhallow, evil eye and desecrate.
Level 1c: Ritual is 50-75% complete. No demon, but in addition to the aura/zone penalties above, now some of its weaker servants can come through, like a Balor lieutenant and a retinue of lesser demons. Some of these will assist the cultists with engaging the PCs while some will be attacking wards or other fixtures in the room to speed this phase up. These fiends may give in to their bloodlust and savage the cultists too, slowing things down, especially if the cultists accidentally harm them - clever PCs can use this to their advantage.
Level 1d: Ritual is 75-100% complete. Demon arrives, but is not fully under the cultist's control after X amount of time after 100%
Level 2: The demon is under the lead cultists' control. The secondary cultists are winded and catching their breath.
Level 3: The demon is under the cultists' control and they are ready to go as well.

Zman
2020-01-15, 10:22 AM
Make it very clear that they are under a time crunch and set out meaningful consequences ie if they fail to stop the summoning the demon is tenuously brought forth. Now they need to still stop the continued ritual and have to contend with the demon that isn't fully in this world or can't stay unless the ritual is stopped.

I did this with an a Baphomet ritual summoning a Goristro in 5e. Essentially the part took too long and the demon portal was opened. Then they realized the ritual was continuing with the portal growing wider. They dallied for a number of rounds with the mooks and the goristro ripped its way into the material plane but was till bound to the portal. They then killed the ritual cultist having to contend with the demon. Having done done so created a timer that was essentially pulling the demon slolwly back into the portal(moved the demon towards the portal with a save) and their goal became holding the demon off and keeping it near enough the portal that it could be pulled back in.


I like the idea of the timer idea. Pick a number denoting minutes until ritual completion and write it down in secret on a card and place that card face down. Then place a d20 on the card showing a 1. After whatever you decide constitutes a minute increase the die by 1. If you have scenarios for them getting there in time and getting there a little late, and getting there far too late you'll add a sufficient feeling of urgency and risk/reward for how quickly they decide to move. The first time one of them says "I loot the bodies" and you add a minute or two the counter you'll really see them change gear. It will capture the "feel" of rushing to stop the ritual.

Essentially its better than they arrive just in time to possible stop the ritual and placing the entire series of scenarios under a time crunch with real consequences or differences in how it plays out depending on their speed and choices.