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SadisticFishing
2007-10-22, 12:17 AM
I remember reading this, but I have no idea where. Is it true that outsiders get shunted back to their plane of origin when they die?

Thanks,
-me

KillianHawkeye
2007-10-22, 12:33 AM
If you are referring to summoned outsiders, then of course they return to their plane of origin when being "killed" ends the spell effect.

If you are referring to outsiders who were called or teleported onto this plane, then I'm not sure I have heard anything that applies to all outsiders that says they return to their plane of origin. You could be remembering the parts from both Fiendish Codex 1 & 2 that talk about how demons and devils who are killed outside of their native plane get reformed there after a certain amount of time has passed. But still, I have only heard this about demons and devils, since no other outsiders have gotten their own books written about them, though I could definitely understand applying that rule to the other types as well.

AslanCross
2007-10-22, 01:21 AM
Demons and Devils reform in their home plane about 100 years after being killed on the Prime Material. (or was it 99?) If you kill them on their home plane, they die permanently.

Unfortunately, we don't know about the good outsiders much, and as much as I'd like to assume they reform, there's no evidence to support that. The BoED mentions some outsiders (the former members of the Celestial Hebdomad) getting killed permanently, but I assume that happened on their home plane.

Doresain
2007-10-22, 02:17 AM
Demons and Devils reform in their home plane about 100 years after being killed on the Prime Material. (or was it 99?) If you kill them on their home plane, they die permanently.

Unfortunately, we don't know about the good outsiders much, and as much as I'd like to assume they reform, there's no evidence to support that. The BoED mentions some outsiders (the former members of the Celestial Hebdomad) getting killed permanently, but I assume that happened on their home plane.

ironically enough, ive got FC1 right in front of me, and it doesnt say anything about 100 years to re-from if killed on the prime (in regards to demons at least)

Raolin_Fenix
2007-10-22, 02:24 AM
I don't think there's anything written about outsiders (other than demons and devils) reforming. But then, there really isn't a whole lot written about outsiders other than demons and devils, at least in comparison. They have a way of expanding a lot on the things PCs are likely to be fighting, and PCs are less likely to be fighting devas than fiends.

That being said, I think the philosophy behind it all is basically this: when you die, your soul is immediately transported to the afterlife appropriate to your alignment. If you're an angel, and you die in, say, the elemental plane of fire, your soul crosses the border back into heaven. 'Course, if you're an angel, your soul is essentially you, so yeah, you seem to disappear.

When you're on your "native" plane and you die, well, you don't really have anywhere to go. You're already there. But now you're dead. So you stay that way. Maybe you become one with the plane, or something.

hewhosaysfish
2007-10-22, 05:46 AM
But what about the Revive Outsider spell? (Dunno where it's from, saw it in SC)

Skjaldbakka
2007-10-22, 05:59 AM
'Course, if you're an angel, your soul is essentially you

That would be the reason outsiders dissipate. Outsiders lack the disparity between body and soul that other creatures have. That is why it takes special magic to bring one back from the dead.

LongVin
2007-10-22, 09:24 AM
When a demon or devil is killed the Prime Material Plane they are sent back to their native plane and banished for 100 years from the Prime Material Plane.

They can only be killed permantely in their native realms. Though I believe a demon can be killed permantely in the nine hells and that a devil can be killed permantely in the Abyss.

Leicontis
2007-10-22, 09:42 AM
When a demon or devil is killed the Prime Material Plane they are sent back to their native plane and banished for 100 years from the Prime Material Plane.

They can only be killed permantely in their native realms. Though I believe a demon can be killed permantely in the nine hells and that a devil can be killed permantely in the Abyss.
I should hope so - otherwise the Blood War is even bigger futility than I'd thought...

Ashy
2007-10-22, 09:57 AM
ironically enough, ive got FC1 right in front of me, and it doesnt say anything about 100 years to re-from if killed on the prime (in regards to demons at least)

I think that's back from the Planescape days....that used to be the rule. :smallsmile:

Clementx
2007-10-22, 10:02 AM
The "99 Years to Reform" rule is out of the FCII. Which is contradicted a lot, by saying that devils will seek revenge when killed...against the retirement home cemetery, apparently.

Ashy
2007-10-22, 10:15 AM
I should hope so - otherwise the Blood War is even bigger futility than I'd thought...

Absolutely.... If fiends came back on their home planes - the Blood War would be the biggest joke in the multiverse! ;)

Snadgeros
2007-10-22, 10:32 AM
:smallconfused: What about level 20 monks? Do they return to their plane? Isn't their plane THIS one? I know you can ressurect them under normal conditions, but maybe their body stays and their soul:smallconfused: .......I don't know anymore. SO CONFUSED!:smalleek:

Keld Denar
2007-10-22, 10:37 AM
If you read FR, in the Crystal Shard (featuring everyones favorite duel scimitar wielding lavender-eyed icon), Drizzt "slays" Ertu on the prime material plane. Its been a while since I read it, but for some reason, the number 101 years is in my head. Since someone else mentioned 99 years, I believe its safe to assume that that is 100 years +/- 1 year margin of error.

I'm reletively sure this policy only applies to "true" demons and devils too. Pit Fiends, Cornuguns, Ice Devils, Balors, Mariliths, etc. Your lower echelon baddies don't have that kind of protection until they evolve into more baddass forms.

Ashy
2007-10-22, 10:44 AM
I'm reletively sure this policy only applies to "true" demons and devils too. Pit Fiends, Cornuguns, Ice Devils, Balors, Mariliths, etc. Your lower echelon baddies don't have that kind of protection until they evolve into more baddass forms.

Well, again, back in the Planescape days (I'm the guy that created Planewalker.com - the Official Planescape website, so all of my frames of reference are going to be related to PS); this was true for any fiend - true, lesser, demon (tanar'ri), devil (baatezu), daemon (yugoloth), or whatevah... :)

hewhosaysfish
2007-10-22, 10:57 AM
:smallconfused: What about level 20 monks? Do they return to their plane? Isn't their plane THIS one? I know you can ressurect them under normal conditions, but maybe their body stays and their soul:smallconfused: .......I don't know anymore. SO CONFUSED!:smalleek:

20th level monks have the 'Native' subtype, meaning they "either mortal parents or a astrong connection to the Material Plane" and they follow the same rules for death and raising as mortals.

Larrin
2007-10-22, 02:12 PM
If you read FR, in the Crystal Shard (featuring everyones favorite duel scimitar wielding lavender-eyed icon), Drizzt "slays" Ertu on the prime material plane. Its been a while since I read it, but for some reason, the number 101 years is in my head. Since someone else mentioned 99 years, I believe its safe to assume that that is 100 years +/- 1 year margin of error.
.

Except in the book it didn't take him that long to get back. I believe the rule used in that book was that Ertu could not RETURN to the prime materia on his own power for ~100 years. In the book (or maybe the next one) Ertu answers a summons, finds a mistake in the summoning seal and breaks free, going after drizzt much less than 100 years later.

so its not 100 years to reform (in FR) but a 100 year banishment, unless you get invited back, which makes more sense in my mind, espeacially since time in the abyss might not move at the same speed as in the world etc.

Douglas
2007-10-22, 02:36 PM
Except in the book it didn't take him that long to get back. I believe the rule used in that book was that Ertu could not RETURN to the prime materia on his own power for ~100 years. In the book (or maybe the next one) Ertu answers a summons, finds a mistake in the summoning seal and breaks free, going after drizzt much less than 100 years later.

so its not 100 years to reform (in FR) but a 100 year banishment, unless you get invited back, which makes more sense in my mind, espeacially since time in the abyss might not move at the same speed as in the world etc.
More specifically, the banishment lasts 100 years or until you get invited back by the person who banished you. Errtu was only able to answer the apprentice wizard's summoning because he had already been summoned once at Drizz't's request. I have no idea where this rule might be in actual rulebooks, but that's how it works in Salvatore's novels.

draca
2007-10-22, 03:52 PM
Has anyone checked the Manual of the Planes, the old Planescape setting, or even AD&D 2nd edition for precedents that may or may not have been carried over? I am almost certain I have seen written that outsiders (not just fiends) return to their native plane when they are slain and the only way to kill them permanently is to slay them in their native plane. I havnít seen that in any D&D 3rd ed books, but if itís not there, then It should be.

Why should fiends have an even more perfect immortality then celestials or those freaky limbo toads? (I demand equal rights for extra planer entities!)

Maybe itís less written about because few people actually care to go out of their way to permanently destroy a celestial or modron, whereas fiends tend to be reoccurring troublemakers.

Either way, from what I understand, you are left with a lump of material that's roughly body-shaped, that was their physical manifestation while on the material plane, but if you gated back over to <Insert native Plane here> for example, you should be able to find that being (probably with a splitting headache and unable to visit your plane again for a while).

AslanCross
2007-10-22, 04:37 PM
ironically enough, ive got FC1 right in front of me, and it doesnt say anything about 100 years to re-from if killed on the prime (in regards to demons at least)

Ah, I see. I hadn't read that and I thought it would be the same for both demons and devils. Devils definitely take 99 years to reform, according to the FC2. When they get back to the Nine Hells, they're usually demoted (#1 fear of devils. Ugh, Nupperibos.).
If they're slain in the Nine Hells, they stay dead.