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Enlong
2007-11-04, 06:45 PM
Alright, like the title says: post your most humorous/creative/strange uses for cantrips/orisons and other low-level magic that you have seen or have thought of.

My examples:
Cast Summon Instrument. BAM! Instant disposable, free, replaceable improvised weapon (favorite idea for this one, use a banjo string to strangle someone from behind, or give the instruments to a Drunken Master)

Multiple castings of Ghost Sound to make someone think they're hearing the voice of a God.

Atanuero
2007-11-04, 07:20 PM
A friend once actually Cure Minor Wounds'd a lich's last 1 hp away. Don't ask me how this happened or what the DM was smoking because I wasn't present.

Arceliar
2007-11-04, 07:25 PM
Prestidigitation to make poison taste like candy...flavored poison.

Jack_Simth
2007-11-04, 07:30 PM
Alright, like the title says: post your most humorous/creative/strange uses for cantrips/orisons and other low-level magic that you have seen or have thought of.
Prestidigitation is the standard one for these:

Running from someone? Change the color of your cloak, then change the color of a strangers to what yours used to be.

Want to interrogate someone? Change the flavor of strong drink into something harmless (but widely loved). Get 'em drunk, then ask.

It's also great for pranks - the seat of one's pants is roughly one square foot. You can soil things with Prestidigitation.

Mage hand, in a pinch, can be used to check and see if a small item is magical or merely under the effects of a spell (Detect Magic can't distinguish this).

Detect Magic can locate magical traps - which (except for poison-based traps) encompasses all the ones that do things worse than direct damage. Additionally, it scans an area faster than a rogue can (60 foot cone in 3 rounds).

BRC
2007-11-04, 07:52 PM
Situation, a prince has become king by secretally killing his father, a character knows so he buys a wand of predestigion. Said character is the new kings mage-bodyguard, so he's always around him. Every time the new king puts on his fathers crown, the mage-bodyguard who has still spell and silent spell predestigions the crown to get dirty, then cleans it again as soon as the king takes it off. Thus causing the king to get excessivly paranoid and nervous, so much so that the nobles take care of said king.

Copacetic
2007-11-04, 08:04 PM
Cast Light on the mage's pants.........:smallamused:

Cast Prestidigitation and chill all the food in th area just as people are about to take a bite, then warm it again. Color the party's meat shield's armour pink.:smallamused:

Cast lullaby on a guard/guards and sneak past.

Climb a buildng and summon instrument 'Gong' on someone's head.

Green Bean
2007-11-04, 08:05 PM
Situation, a prince has become king by secretally killing his father, a character knows so he buys a wand of predestigion. Said character is the new kings mage-bodyguard, so he's always around him. Every time the new king puts on his fathers crown, the mage-bodyguard who has still spell and silent spell predestigions the crown to get dirty, then cleans it again as soon as the king takes it off. Thus causing the king to get excessivly paranoid and nervous, so much so that the nobles take care of said king.

Did he use it to make the son's hands bloody? And afterwards, did he use it to get the damn spot out? :smallbiggrin:

BRC
2007-11-04, 08:12 PM
Did he use it to make the son's hands bloody? And afterwards, did he use it to get the damn spot out? :smallbiggrin:
No, but he should have, I originally though up this scenario when working on my Psychological warfare skill and system ( I should really post that)

Laurellien
2007-11-04, 08:13 PM
Multiple castings of Ghost Sound to make someone think they're hearing the voice of a God.

We did that once when the party was in prison (don't ask). It went something like this. "I, Nerull, have plans for these prisoners. RELEASE THEM NOW! Or face my immortal wrath."
They practically kicked us out

create water
"Hahahaha! I, the BBEG shall - " sploosh "destroy your - " sploosh "STOP IT!"

Summon instrument:
"Pipe organ" Wham!
"The horn of Helm Hammerhand" Earthquake.

I once bitchslapped somebody with mage hand.

Jack_Simth
2007-11-04, 08:20 PM
We did that once when the party was in prison (don't ask). It went something like this. "I, Nerull, have plans for these prisoners. RELEASE THEM NOW! Or face my immortal wrath."
They practically kicked us out

Don't most D&D Dieties have an awareness of every time their name is spoken?

You sure it's a good idea to impersonate one of the evil ones?


create water
"Hahahaha! I, the BBEG shall - " sploosh "destroy your - " sploosh "STOP IT!"

Yes, but is it worth the standard action when the DM can use that time to roll initiative... and require you to use THAT as your opening move?


Summon instrument:
"Pipe organ" Wham!
"The horn of Helm Hammerhand" Earthquake.

Both illegal by Summon Instrument's text - can't summon anything you can't hold in two hands, and it's a mundane instrument.


I once bitchslapped somebody with mage hand.
Illegal by way of the spell description - it can't affect people. You could, conceivably, animate a glove... but they'll see it coming with plenty of time to spare, what with the slow speed.

SilverClawShift
2007-11-04, 08:30 PM
We had an intensely paranoid wizard who cast Detect Poison on everything he ever ate.

Ironically, he actually died by CON damaging poison. It's just that it was on a crossbow bolt being fired by kobolds.

Chronos
2007-11-04, 08:30 PM
From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonInstrument.htm):
The instrument is typical for its type. Only one instrument appears per casting, and it will play only for you. You canít summon an instrument too large to be held in two hands.So you can't summon a pipe organ unless you're really strong, and if you ask for the Horn of Helm, you'll just get a typical horn. I'm sure you could find a good use for an alphorn, though (saves carrying around a standard-issue ten foot pole), and bass drums and tubas are still available for dropping.

On the subject of Prestidigitation and the taste of poison, a friend of mine once suggested pulling a "let's you and him fight" by adding the flavor of poison to food or drink, so the eater thinks someone's trying to assassinate him.

Forrestfire
2007-11-04, 08:43 PM
I frequently use acid spray to eat up the workings of locks

bugsysservant
2007-11-04, 08:47 PM
Well, technically, it says "held" not "lifted" or "carried" anyone can hold an instrument in two hands, even if they can't pick it up. But yeah, by RAI, summoning the Helm of Helmhammerhand or a pipe organ.

Edit: missed the "handheld" bit. So yeah, its illegal.

Green Bean
2007-11-04, 09:06 PM
From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonInstrument.htm):So you can't summon a pipe organ unless you're really strong, and if you ask for the Horn of Helm, you'll just get a typical horn. I'm sure you could find a good use for an alphorn, though (saves carrying around a standard-issue ten foot pole), and bass drums and tubas are still available for dropping.

On the subject of Prestidigitation and the taste of poison, a friend of mine once suggested pulling a "let's you and him fight" by adding the flavor of poison to food or drink, so the eater thinks someone's trying to assassinate him.

I love using the reflavouring ability of Prestidigitation.

Me: Here, friend, have some nice warm "apple juice".
Friend: Hey, did you just do that air quote thing?
Me: "No".

SurlySeraph
2007-11-04, 09:13 PM
5680. Prestidigation cannot be used to do any of the following
-freeze people's blood, killing them instantly
-tear out tiny but vital organs
-prevent their heart from beating
-shut off the brain's supply of oxygen
5681. The spell can't deal damage. Period. No matter how many ways you can come up with to use 1 pound of force to kill someone.


5379. Mage Hand cannot be used to perform any of the effects in my previous post, no matter how many ways I can think of to use a whole 5 pounds of force to kill someone.
5380. Nor Greater Mage Hand, even though 40 pounds of force is more than enough to crush someone's windpipe.
minimum character limit

Gerrtt
2007-11-04, 09:26 PM
Not sure if it's legal but someone once suggested to me that we pour some water into a lock and then use ray of frost to freeze the water, in effect breaking the lock when the water expanded and turned to ice.

Also, in a game my friend once used prestidigitation to lift a pound of lava out of a lava flow and dump it on a troll. The spell didn't do damage on it's own, it only used the environment to do it, so the DM allowed it.

Suzuro
2007-11-04, 09:27 PM
Someone around these parts, I can't actually remember who it was though, had the idea to go to a preacher's sermon and cast ghost sound to make it sound like the preacher was farting, Prestidigitation to make it smell like it and then use silent image to make a cloud of green gas behind him.

Again, not my idea, if they're around here they can take credit for it.

-Suzuro

XenoGeno
2007-11-04, 09:51 PM
Make a pit trap with a portable hole, then ready mage hand to pick it up once somebody falls in. Wait a day, then empty the very blue corpse. Or if you're feeling very evil/wealthy, leave some iridescent and clear ioun stones to taunt the guy with, then toss the hole into a bag of holding.

Dervag
2007-11-04, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by TigerHunter
5379. Mage Hand cannot be used to perform any of the effects in my previous post, no matter how many ways I can think of to use a whole 5 pounds of force to kill someone.
5380. Nor Greater Mage Hand, even though 40 pounds of force is more than enough to crush someone's windpipe.
I find your lack of faith... disturbing.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-04, 10:55 PM
When fighting a creature with "Swallow Whole," use prestidigation to give yourself the flavor of habanero peppers mixed with rancid meat.

When giving the fair damsel her requisite kiss, use prestidigitation to change your flavor to mint chocolate.

Technically a first-level spell, but still worth it: Leave a deck of cards on a table and hide somewhere off to the side. When someone attempts to draw a card, use silent image to make it appear as though they just drew the "Rogue" card from the Deck of Many Things ("one of your allies will betray you").

MrNexx
2007-11-04, 11:14 PM
When fighting a creature with "Swallow Whole," use prestidigation to give yourself the flavor of habanero peppers mixed with rancid meat.

Think about what many of them eat. Consider if that would actually make them stop.

As for Greater Mage Hand and the like, I believe those only affect objects. Even if they did not, it would be, definitely, a case where a saving throw is warranted.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-04, 11:18 PM
Think about what many of them eat. Consider if that would actually make them stop.

Hm... Good point. Change that to castor oil. Nobody likes castor oil.

Ralfarius
2007-11-04, 11:27 PM
Hm... Good point. Change that to castor oil. Nobody likes castor oil.
*Covers his shelf of castor oil with a sheet.*
Yeah... You'd have to be some sort of weirdo to like that stuff. Gross. :smalleek:

Enlong
2007-11-04, 11:28 PM
Here's another use of the "re flavoring" form of Presto.

We all know that the highly nutritious gruel from a Sustaining Spoon tastes like cardboard, right? So you use Presto to make it taste like the best thing ever! Who cares if it still feels like mushy gruel, when it tastes like cinnamon-sugar oatmeal, or curry, or a bowl of pizza!?
In fact, use that to sell a Sustaining Spoon for far more then it's worth, if ya don't need it anymore.

On a similar note, use Presto to make the plain water from a Decanter of Endless Water taste like the drink of your choice.

Those two items mean you never have to starve: Presto means you always get to taste what you want.

Use Know Direction to find north, and then use that knowledge to draw a map of your surroundings, with the direction of North drawn on it, so you always know which way is north.

Use Light to make an old weapon shine a pure white, and then sell your "Longsword of Brilliant Energy" for "low, low prices!" (higher level version of this: add Nystul's Magic Aura to make it detect as a Brilliant Energy Weapon)

Use Ghost Sound and Dancing Lights to create a bunch of artificial Will O' Whisps that you use to lure someone into a trap. Or wherever else you want to lead the light-deprived, slow-witted fool.

Mage Hand to steal someone's Handy Haversack (or other 5-pound item) while they sleep.

Arcane Mark to put a King's "Official Stamp" on your bootleg items, or to forge signatures. (signatures would require multiple castings, but as long as you've seen the real signature, you're good to go!)

MrNexx
2007-11-04, 11:48 PM
Arcane Mark to put a King's "Official Stamp" on your bootleg items, or to forge signatures. (signatures would require multiple castings, but as long as you've seen the real signature, you're good to go!)

Read. the. spell. It inscribes your PERSONAL rune on something, not random graffiti.

Enlong
2007-11-04, 11:53 PM
Read. the. spell. It inscribes your PERSONAL rune on something, not random graffiti.

OK, Fine. Then signatures are out. However, just 'cause it says "personal" rune, it doesn't put any restrictions on what that rune is, other then the fact that it can only be 6 characters in length, and 1 square foot. the spell wouldn't know that your "personal rune" happens to be identical to a certain stamp or insignia that would improve the credibility of bootleg gear, so long as you know that you must remain devoted to using that one rune.

RoboticSheeple
2007-11-05, 12:06 AM
Prestidigitation is the standard one for these:

Running from someone? Change the color of your cloak, then change the color of a strangers to what yours used to be.


For a net change of NOTHING on your disguise check, sounds awesome. Also remember to ball it up into a 1 foot cube first or the spell won't color the whole thing.

Unrelated, you can't flavor yourself unless you're undead.

Also, expansion from making ice with a Ray of Frost in an attempt to do more damage than the actual spell does? Does this even need to be addressed?

the_tick_rules
2007-11-05, 12:09 AM
someone once suggested using create water to create water inside someone's head and use the water pressure to crush their brain.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-05, 01:38 AM
create water
"Hahahaha! I, the BBEG shall - " sploosh "destroy your - " sploosh "STOP IT!" Incidentally, Create Water can't actually do this. The rules are very specific about where you can summon stuff to, and "right over an enemy's head" is not allowed. Same goes for all the people saying silly things like crushing people's brains with water pressure. Enlong's suggestion, too, is blatantly against the rules. Even if his sig has a totally awesome quote about teaching players to fish.

"Clever" does not mean "cheating." There is nothing clever about cheating.

Kantolin
2007-11-05, 02:13 AM
Yikes, some of you people are harsh.

Especially in situations where there isn't much of a mechanical effect. Creating water in someone's head? "Sorry, that would be, among other things, overpowered."

Using create water to douse a person harmlessly? That certainly sounds acceptable to me. Using prestidigitation to shift your cloak to a different color, and do the reverse to another? Also sounds, among other things, interesting and clever.

While it's not exactly unique, I've always been fond of what you can do with dancing lights. From a pointing arrow to a halo. One of my preferred spells, along with mending and of course, prestidigitation.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-05, 02:24 AM
Using prestidigitation to shift your cloak to a different color, and do the reverse to another? Also sounds, among other things, interesting and clever. Hey now, that one's actually perfectly legal rules-wise... it's just a stupid decision IC, because the person you switched would make it easier to identify you (among other complications, such as actually managing to target the entirety of the other person's clothes...). You'd be better off just changing your own. Or quick-changing (that seriously takes a second. Showmen can do it... your Rogue probably can too)

The guy complaining about not getting a bonus to disguise checks seem to have the same sort of logic as a guy saying that death doesn't give you any penalties just because there's no exact reference in the text as to what death does to you. Except that in this case, the DMG actually DOES cover how a DM should handle special situations that affect skills in some detail. Making his position that prestidigitation can't help you blend into a crowd even less tenable.

Still, as I said, the strategy generally fails for other reasons.


Yikes, some of you people are harsh.

Especially in situations where there isn't much of a mechanical effect. Creating water in someone's head? "Sorry, that would be, among other things, overpowered."

Using create water to douse a person harmlessly? That certainly sounds acceptable to me. Using prestidigitation to shift your cloak to a different color, and do the reverse to another? Also sounds, among other things, interesting and clever.

While it's not exactly unique, I've always been fond of what you can do with dancing lights. From a pointing arrow to a halo. One of my preferred spells, along with mending and of course, prestidigitation.

As for being "interesting and clever..."

The thing is, Kantolin, cheating isn't interesting or clever. cheating is just munchkinism, by the definition of the word munchkin given on these boards. There is NO excuse for cheating. And there's NOTHING clever about it. Anyone can come up with erroneous shiny effects that cantrips can't actually do. I could say "Hey, I can use Lullaby to slow down time for a prank!" and it wouldn't be clever, because Lullaby can't slow down time any more than create water can be cast for death (or at least wetness) from above.

Also, the ability to summon water over someone's head would not only be able to douse them harmlessly, but if it were possible it would be a quite abusable damage dealer barring houserules on falling object damage.

Kantolin
2007-11-05, 02:37 AM
The thing is, Kantolin, cheating isn't interesting or clever. It's just munchkin-y. Heck, it's in the definition of the word.

I can accept that insofar as 'using create water to blow people up by making it in their brains'. I mean, that is (if nothing else) overpowered, and utterly not what the spell was intended to do.

But using create water to douse someone? I mean, that seems to be a perfectly reasonable use of the spell - if someone was on fire, I don't see much problem in permitting someone to dump gallons of water on them to put it out. Therefore, I am similarly okay with someone simply dumping water on somebody.

I mean, it's not being used to distract him or ruin his concentration or anything, just make him wet and a bit miffed. That not only doesn't strike me as cheating, but it also doesn't strike me as munchkin-y in the slightest. There is nothing related to powergaming here, nor in "abusing the rules to 'win' D&D", or anything anymore negative than the DM stating, "The Villain is now wet and a bit miffed. He may or may not stop speaking."

Edit: Caught your edit, and wanted to also address this:


Also, the ability to summon water over someone's head would not only be able to douse them harmlessly, but if it were possible it would be a quite abusable damage dealer barring houserules on falling object damage.

I didn't think that was part of the case at all. The suggestion wasn't to somehow make create water into a damaging spell, it was to douse people. Definitely seems within the spirit and purpose of the spell

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-05, 02:42 AM
Note: Conjuration spells canít create substances or objects within a creature. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon. One cubic foot of water contains roughly 8 gallons and weighs about 60 pounds.

It's actually in the description of the Create Water spell, meaning the guy suggesting Create Water wouldn't even bother to check the SRD.

___

To Kantolin: Defending the spread of misinformation is socially irresponsible. Seriously, not only is making up an erroneous effect that cantrips can't actually do NOT clever in ANY way (hey, I can play a prank by creating a pair of water balloons hovering in wait above a doorway ready to drop on the hapless victim with Prestidigitation! I'm clever! Except... no), but some newbie player might actually walk in here, read this stuff, and then think "hey, I can be clever!" Then they go in, thinking they'll be clever, to their next gaming session. Then they get laughed at for not knowing the rules or worse, get accused of being a munchkin or cheating. In this way, such things can be actively harmful to the gaming experience of the readers.

Kantolin
2007-11-05, 02:52 AM
No, the point of the spell is to make water that you can use for all the stuff people normally use water for... not including magically positioning it above people. That's actually SPECIFICALLY AGAINST THE RULES. They didn't make that rule just to go against the spirit of the spells they wrote in the same bloody book.

It most certainly strikes me that people normally use water to douse people with, particularly harmlessly.

In addition, the spell suggests:


Water can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid, or in an area three times as largeópossibly creating a downpour or filling many small receptacles.

Which makes it even more likely that using the spell to cause water to fall in an area would work - perhaps to water a small area of crops, for example.

So you are suggesting that, if a character's ally was on fire, they would not be permitted to fix this with create water directly? And anyone who attempted to do this would indeed be accused of being a munchkin, or yelled at for breaking the rules?

And also that posters who suggested this - through permitting this to occur - should be scolded, even though odds are, most people would definitely allow and expect this to occur?

If so, I suppose there's nothing left to debate about, and I defer to my earlier statement of 'Yikes, some of you people are harsh', and will just leave it at that.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-05, 02:58 AM
That's interesting... it *DOES* say it can create a downpour. I shall look into this. I know there was SOME reason people stopped making annoying posts about doing the most low level damage with Create Water. But this was so long ago my memory may be fuzzy.

In any case, it does seem like you were correct as to intent, and I apologize profusely if it turns out I was wrong. I am no hypocrite, and stand by my opinion that treating people who make such errors with what you would call "harshness" to be entirely appropriate, INCLUDING when it's me (heck, I request that people "be brutal" whenever I put out homebrew content for critique). So feel free to correct and chastise away ;)

Edit: Apparently so long ago that google refuses to be immediately helpful in this matter. *Shakes fist*

Edit2: See my next post... as I correctly thought, the general rule DOES say that you cannot create material or creatures in open air, and though it is POSSIBLE to interpret create water as an exception to this rule, it is still rather unclear on this point (whereas usually an exception to a major rule like that will be more explicit, instead of potentially inferred in one word). I can think of quite a few ways to create a downpour without actually creating water in open air, and thus it doesn't really give any definitive weight to the idea that Create Water can do what no other summoning spell does.

Goumindong
2007-11-05, 03:06 AM
Creating water over someones head is perfectly within the rules

range "Close 25+5 ft/lvl"

No stipulations about where the water must be located except that it cannot be created inside a container too small to house it. So no busting peoples skulls, but go ahead and douse them.

They can just dry themselves off with prestidigitation.

From the SRD




This spell generates wholesome, drinkable water, just like clean rain water. Water can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid, or in an area three times as largeópossibly creating a downpour or filling many small receptacles.

Note: Conjuration spells canít create substances or objects within a creature. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon. One cubic foot of water contains roughly 8 gallons and weighs about 60 pounds.

So in fact you could create water by raw in an area to drench someone.

Two cubic feat in an area three times as large at level 8. That is 6 cubic feet and 16 gallons of water. Plenty ot stick over anyone you wanted and make them wet.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-05, 03:13 AM
Nope... I was right... Conjuration spells can never create stuff in an empty area as the general rule. Though it is POSSIBLE that you might INTERPRET the SPECIFIC text of Create Water as inferring that it is an exception to the general "no, you can't drop a rhinoceros hat on someone" rule. However, it says it right there... you can't summon stuff over people's heads.

Cybren
2007-11-05, 03:16 AM
It uhh... it just said it could create a downpour.


Also, there was a second edition module for Mystara that had like robots that you could short circuit with Create Water.

Goumindong
2007-11-05, 03:22 AM
Nope... I was right... Conjuration spells can never create stuff in an empty area as the general rule. Though it is POSSIBLE that you might INTERPRET the SPECIFIC text of Create Water as inferring that it is an exception to the general "no, you can't drop a rhinoceros hat on someone" rule. However, it says it right there... you can't summon stuff over people's heads.

Water is neither a creature, nor an object. Either way, specific spell text always overrides general text.

toddex
2007-11-05, 03:31 AM
Well if we didnt have these "use create water to destroy brains" posts defending the use of imagination and the spirit of fun, which imo this game was intended to bring out, would be alot easier haha.

Just reading these posts I fear alot of my D&D comrades have lost their spirits of fun and have given into the rule whore mentality.

Kantolin
2007-11-05, 03:53 AM
I believe there is an error being inferred here.

I am not suggesting that create water should be used to deal damage. I am also not stating that create water should be used to blow up people's heads - even if the spell didn't explicitly state that you could do that, it would be overpowered and out of line for the spell.

I am also not suggesting that you can use create water to create a potato or something.

You keep mentioning things that seem unfair, unbalanced or otherwise out of the spirit of create water. I am mentioning using create water to make people wet. I refuse to believe there is some sort of unbalancing feature about using a cantrip that creates water to make people wet.

I'm not even asking about, say, using a fireball to start a campfire or something. Create Water has range, and creates... water. This is both balanced enough - it doesn't deal damage or disrupt concentration or anything - and very much entitled to what the spell is intended for.

I can't imagine anyone, in any group I've been to, being yelled at for using create water to make someone wet. Using summon monster to summon something large over something else's head... that's overpowering, and is clearly not what's intended.

If nothing else, 'Yes you can use create water to make someone wet' seems like a perfectly viable method to interpret the spell.

Either way, though, we're falling into opinion here (I... believe we are, anyway). In addition, I never claimed that you couldn't interpret that create water cannot do so over a person's head - just that that's an extremely harsh interpretation that seems to stifle creativity more than anything else. I'd just let the cleric/druid/paladin create water over the BBEG's head already, and I sense most groups would as well.

This topic, however, is going relatively off-topic - I sense anyone reading it will read the original idea (Create water to wet someone), read your comment on it, and read that I think that's harsh. That's plenty; anything else should probably just be taken to a different topic, as it's cluttering up what should be a topic about fun, creative, and interesting uses of cantrips. ^_^

Haedrian
2007-11-05, 04:26 AM
Create Water: Wait until someone has almost finished a beer in the tavern... and BAM, glass refills with water...

Light: Try putting it on the nose of a sleeping PC...

Kompera
2007-11-05, 04:34 AM
I think the issues here is that the SRD under Conjuration states

It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.while the Create Water cantrip would allow the creation in mid air of 320 lbs of water by a 20th level caster. This amount of weight could cause significant damage, which is against the spirit of a spell which by intent should cause only minor effects. The out, then, is the part of Create Water which allows for a downpour. It would be fair for a DM to rule that water summoned over someone's head can be a downpour, as one would experience in a rainstorm, but can not be a cohesive sphere of 320 lbs of water (or any weight of water), which would possibly cause damage.

Harking back to the beginning example, "Hahahaha! I, the BBEG shall - " sploosh "destroy your - " sploosh "STOP IT!", it would be fair for the DM to say "Speech is a free action. We'll roll initiative after the BBEG finishes his soliloquy to see if your Create Water is cast before his action." Then the player can decide if Create Water is a wise choice for his action against a powerful opponent. It's fun in a slapstick kind of way to douse the BBEG, but if the campaign or this particular foe is cast as a more sinister figure than Larry, Curly , or Moe, dousing him with water might be a bit of a step outside the DMs concept for the story arc. That wouldn't prohibit the dousing, but making it cost turns may sway player decisions towards more offensive/defensive spells or actions.

Re: Prestidigitation and the cloak color helping or not helping a disguise check, disguise is an opposed roll against Spot. Creating a 1 square foot of green color on your previously solid red cloak would seem to be a fair bet to earn a circumstance bonus.

Favorable And Unfavorable Conditions

Some situations may make a skill easier or harder to use, resulting in a bonus or penalty to the skill modifier for a skill check or a change to the DC of the skill check.

The chance of success can be altered in four ways to take into account exceptional circumstances.

1. Give the skill user a +2 circumstance bonus to represent conditions that improve performance, such as having the perfect tool for the job, getting help from another character (see Combining Skill Attempts), or possessing unusually accurate information.

Circumstance Modifier

A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source.

Goumindong
2007-11-05, 04:47 AM
Dropping 320 pounds of water on someone will not hurt them. You have jumped or dove into water have you not? Dropping you onto the water or the water onto you are the same effect[due to the fact that it is a liquid and cannot transmit force to a point as a solid can].

One causes no damage[water 1 ft above you falls on you you get wet], and so the other causes no damage. Even by rules the water would have to fall 10 feet in order to do damage or be able to crush you, which water cannot anyway.

ED: as for the spot check, what is important here is not how easy the cloak is to see, what is important is what the person is looking for. If i am wearing a red cloak and run into a bunch of people and then suddenly have a red cloak, i will have a much easier time escaping you.

Kantolin
2007-11-05, 04:54 AM
It's fun in a slapstick kind of way to douse the BBEG, but if the campaign or this particular foe is cast as a more sinister figure than Larry, Curly , or Moe, dousing him with water might be a bit of a step outside the DMs concept for the story arc.

I can actually accept this reasoning more than a lot of others. Of course, you could always use prestidigitation and turn his hair some color, or just in a purely mundane fashion throw a bucket of liquid on him, for similar enough effect.

Or, alternately, do something which could cause lethal effect like fireball or sommat, which could potentially wreck the moment significantly more than amusement.

warmachine
2007-11-05, 05:36 AM
I believe Gary Gygax thinks Create Water should be able to make things wet, even if it damages them. I remember playing the 3ed module Necropolis, written by Gary Gygax, where one trap involved electrical bars that COULDN'T be short circuited with a crowbar and a later encounter with electrical golems that the DM hinted that water would kill them. One Create Water over them and they were destroyed.

So, there you go. You can't use metal bars to short circuit electricty but you can use water. An orison defeated an entire encounter. Personally, I find AD&D's inconsistent physics incredibly annoying.

Kompera
2007-11-05, 06:06 AM
Dropping 320 pounds of water on someone will not hurt them. You have jumped or dove into water have you not? Dropping you onto the water or the water onto you are the same effect[due to the fact that it is a liquid and cannot transmit force to a point as a solid can].
Without wanting to kill any catgirls here, and without taking into account any air resistance, mass is mass. Weight is what you lift. Mass is what hurts when it hits you. 40 gallons of water has a significant mass, and will hurt if dropped upon you. Water is incompressible and transmits force just fine.

Edit:

So, there you go. You can't use metal bars to short circuit electricty but you can use water.Heh, perhaps it was salt water? :smallannoyed:

Enlong
2007-11-05, 06:15 AM
So, um, can we go back to being happy and funny?

One funny example I heard somewhere else (can't take credit for making this up).
Group of adventurers were fighting their way through a horde of undead inside of a cemetery from which the undead were being raised. Eventually, the evil necromancers break out the big guns and command this huge dinosaur skeleton (or something similarly enormous and bony) to rise from the earth. The PCs cast Grease a couple times on the pit, and the dino-skeleton suddenly finds himself slipping back down the hole, much less of a threat.

Tengu
2007-11-05, 06:47 AM
Well if we didnt have these "use create water to destroy brains" posts defending the use of imagination and the spirit of fun, which imo this game was intended to bring out, would be alot easier haha.

Just reading these posts I fear alot of my D&D comrades have lost their spirits of fun and have given into the rule whore mentality.

Do you seriously believe that a level 0 spell should be able to kill someone? This is not imagination and the spirit of fun, this is munchkining at its worst. It's like saying "the rules do not say that a human cannot have 4 hands and have rich parents that shower him with magical items 10 minutes after the adventures starts, so I do!" - as mentioned before, you mistake creativity for cheating.

Khanderas
2007-11-05, 06:57 AM
It's actually in the description of the Create Water spell, meaning the guy suggesting Create Water wouldn't even bother to check the SRD.

___

To Kantolin: Defending the spread of misinformation is socially irresponsible. Seriously, not only is making up an erroneous effect that cantrips can't actually do NOT clever in ANY way (hey, I can play a prank by creating a pair of water balloons hovering in wait above a doorway ready to drop on the hapless victim with Prestidigitation! I'm clever! Except... no), but some newbie player might actually walk in here, read this stuff, and then think "hey, I can be clever!" Then they go in, thinking they'll be clever, to their next gaming session. Then they get laughed at for not knowing the rules or worse, get accused of being a munchkin or cheating. In this way, such things can be actively harmful to the gaming experience of the readers.
Wetting someone with an open-ended spell like preg.. pre.. that-spell-that-lets-you-do-alot-of-different-magical-effects. As long as there is no crunch bonuses for doing so its legal in my mind. Mind you, it might be fluff bonuses/penalties for angering the BBEG or anyone really with this.
Also lighten up alittle. Saying you agree or not is just fine, but to say someone will be the laughingstock of the group for trying it... comes off alittle agressive. Socially irresponsible ?:smallamused:

Khanderas
2007-11-05, 07:04 AM
Without wanting to kill any catgirls here, and without taking into account any air resistance, mass is mass. Weight is what you lift. Mass is what hurts when it hits you. 40 gallons of water has a significant mass, and will hurt if dropped upon you. Water is incompressible and transmits force just fine.
If mass is mass and that is what hurts you when it falls, then it shouldn't matter if it was liquid form or ice ?
I rather take 40 gallons of water falling on me then 43'ish gallons of ice (because ice has a lower density then the liquid version). True that liquids do not compress like gasses, but it is still flexible enough to warrant some difference when it hits your head.

And while in vacuum all things fall equally fast, wind resistence (air resistence?) is a factor anywhere but in mathematics.

Fishy
2007-11-05, 07:16 AM
If D&D is a tactical board game, then when I do something that twists the rules, just because it would look cool, then I'm cheating, and I'm a bad player.

If D&D is a shared storytelling game, then when I do something that twists the rules, just because it would look cool, then I'm being creative, and I'm a good player.

Is it cheating to pick up the ball? Depends if it's basketball or soccer.

Tengu
2007-11-05, 07:33 AM
That's true, however, killing someone by a weak spell by creating water inside their head, or pinching a vein in their brain with mage hand, or teleporting a sword into their heart is not cool - it's lame, extremely cheesy, and makes everyone wonder why enemy casters don't pull such tricks against players too.

Bender
2007-11-05, 07:46 AM
Without wanting to kill any catgirls here, and without taking into account any air resistance, mass is mass. Weight is what you lift. Mass is what hurts when it hits you. 40 gallons of water has a significant mass, and will hurt if dropped upon you. Water is incompressible and transmits force just fine.

oh man, these tons of air constantly falling on me really hurt... :smallwink:

Have you ever showered in a water fall? eg where the water falls 30 ft and a single blob of water can contain several gallons? It isn't very nice, but it certainly doesn't damage you. Besides, the 40 gallons won't all hit you, most will miss you, and it doesn't hit you all at the same time. A reason why it might hurt more than air is that the water pressure of the bottom of the waterblob is slightly higher: rho*g*h, for a sphere of water 1 meter in diameter, this is 10 N force or 1 kg resting on your head (not falling, resting, helmets easily weigh more than 10 kg)
There is some inertia, but most of the water keeps moving down, it doesn't all stop.
And all of this isn't related to D&D at all, because the rules don't mention falling water damage.


More on subject: I love mending and prestidigitation: leave everything clean and intact after you've got what you want.

Rasilak
2007-11-05, 08:10 AM
Actually, the pressure at the bottom isn't any higher, since the blob is falling.

BRC
2007-11-05, 08:23 AM
In terms of the create water=damage here, it would be impossible to get the water to appear any higher than rain, and rain dosn't hurt anybody despite how far it falls, because it reaches its terminal velocity.

Enlong
2007-11-05, 08:52 AM
HEY!

Could we please go back to having fun with this? I'm all for catgirl genocide, but this is just turning into a big argument. No offense, but if I have to read one more post arguing the physics of Create Water, I'm gonna scream.

I just thought of another fun use for Presto. Use the 1lb telekenisis to make someone's hair stand on end. This is extra fun if you're a barber and can use it for fun and profit.

Fishy
2007-11-05, 09:10 AM
That's true, however, killing someone by a weak spell by creating water inside their head, or pinching a vein in their brain with mage hand, or teleporting a sword into their heart is not cool - it's lame, extremely cheesy, and makes everyone wonder why enemy casters don't pull such tricks against players too.

Which is why neither camp will allow that. Anyway, Wizards has (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20070717a) some suggestions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707) on fun ways to use cantrips- I rather like 'throwing a scene at the restaurant' though it's probably not for PCs. Prestidigitation seems perfect for housework- one servant with an Eternal Wand could probably do the entire mansion in an hour- or the Gather function might be useful to a bank/royal treasury/dragon with OCD.

And no, it's not in the spirit of the thing, but a Snowcast, Flash Freezing Prestidigitation is a level 1 spell that can cause 2 damage and a balance check once a round for a full hour. :P

Bender
2007-11-05, 09:55 AM
Could we please go back to having fun with this? I'm all for catgirl genocide, but this is just turning into a big argument. No offense, but if I have to read one more post arguing the physics of Create Water, I'm gonna scream.

Apparently, you can use create water to make people scream behind their computer.
sorry, I couldn't resist :smalltongue:
Enlong is right though, and I apologise for my previous post.

To evacuate a building:
Dancing lights moving at random behind a door/window
combine with ghost sound for the sound of burning furniture

Shisumo
2007-11-05, 10:06 AM
In a recent one-shot, a sorcerer//rogue used acid splash to perform a coup de grace on a troll.

h2doh
2007-11-05, 10:28 AM
In ghost walk it says that you can make 1lb of ectoplasm(sp?) with prestidigitation. ....you can also coat an object and make it ghost touch for 10 mins.

Goumindong
2007-11-05, 11:23 AM
Without wanting to kill any catgirls here, and without taking into account any air resistance, mass is mass. Weight is what you lift. Mass is what hurts when it hits you. 40 gallons of water has a significant mass, and will hurt if dropped upon you. Water is incompressible and transmits force just fine.
Unless create water creates all the water in a single molecule tower[which it doesnt] arranged at perferctly normal to the ground then there is no way that the water would have the same force.

The thing that kills you when you fall onto water is surface tension, and surface tension will be the same based on velocity and uniformity not mass. Now falling always occurs at the same speed. So if you can dive head first into water at that height then you can easily dump some amount of water on the guy.

Put it this way, have you ever been hit by a wave? In this case there is thousands more gallons hitting you and the water has less ability to displace its surroundings.

A level 20 cleric creates 5 cubic feet of water. That is almost less water than goes in your bathtub.

Kilbia
2007-11-05, 11:40 AM
My husband described a situation in the game he's playing, where they were approaching this room with a thick layer of muck on the floor, and the SUPER MYSTICAL ORB they were seeking on the far side of the room.

My thought: Cast Unseen Servant to pick up the orb and bring it to you.

His counter: The orb weighs nearly 100 pounds, and only barely fits in a type one bag of holding (apparently by volume rather than weight?).

My counter-counter: Unseen Servant to take the bag of holding over to the orb and drop it over the orb, then pick up the bag (which still only weighs 5lb) and bring it to you.

I don't think their DM will let it happen that easily, but this could also have been done with Mage Hand, which is why I post it here.

---
Other funny cantrip stories:

- A friend told me of a trap that would douse you with Create Water, then one round later hit you with a Cone of Cold. They sprung that trap using a rabbit out of a bag of tricks. I believe the word was "coney-sicle".

- I ran a module where the PCs would find a bad guy's journal tucked into a niche on an altar. Unfortunately, one of them decided that before even remotely examining the altar, he had to defile it by urinating all over it. Thankfully the mage of the party had a Prestidigitation spell and was able to clean the journal so they would be willing to touch it. :smallbiggrin:

Laurellien
2007-11-05, 11:52 AM
It's actually in the description of the Create Water spell, meaning the guy suggesting Create Water wouldn't even bother to check the SRD.

Downpour use listed in SRD, guess YOU wouldn't even bother to check the SRD.


EDIT: My bad, didn't see your retraction. Apologies.

warmachine
2007-11-05, 12:51 PM
Heh, perhaps it was salt water? :smallannoyed:
Alas, Create Water only creates wholesome, drinking water like clean rain water. Even if the spell can can create salt water, I did not specify this when I cast it. However, rain water has enough dissolved impurities to help short circuit a sparking, electrical golem. So, it's reasonable.

You can't get much better an electrical conductor than a steel crowbar, other than a copper cable, so the electrical trap should have fried itself. A catgirl just died. Incredible that electricity can't conduct through a steel crowbar but can through steel bars. There goes another catgirl.

But you can make someone wet with Create Water. That catgirl is safe.

Glawackus
2007-11-05, 01:15 PM
Don't know how legal this is for all you catgirl-chasers (:smalltongue:), but:

In the Underdark, we were being pursued by some angry Drow. Our wizard dropped Flare on the leader, and then somehow managed to get off a Light onto his unconscious body. We escaped while the Drow argued whether it was worth the effort to take him back glowing like crazy. :smallsmile:

Another great one was when we finally got the vampire down to unconsciousness and were looking around this empty shack we'd encountered him in for a stake. The bard cast Summon Musical Instrument, and we had the fighter make an awesome Strength check to use the neck of the violin. :smallwink:

AKA_Bait
2007-11-05, 01:28 PM
Cast Prestidigitation to make a little fragile looking red bead in your hand. Convince your foes it's a delayed blast fireball.

Curmudgeon
2007-11-05, 01:44 PM
His counter: The orb weighs nearly 100 pounds, and only barely fits in a type one bag of holding (apparently by volume rather than weight?).

My counter-counter: Unseen Servant to take the bag of holding over to the orb and drop it over the orb, then pick up the bag (which still only weighs 5lb) and bring it to you.

I don't think their DM will let it happen that easily, but this could also have been done with Mage Hand, which is why I post it here. You haven't been reading the labels on your magic items. A Type I Bag of Holding always weighs 15 lbs. Plus this would never work with Mage Hand because of the other part of the cantrip's limitation:
Mage Hand

Target: One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.

MrNexx
2007-11-05, 02:10 PM
On the create water thing, I used to have a great quote from Lysander (a board member) about that. It ran "The spell was designed to create cupcakes for you to eat. You can't create them in your enemy's brain."

However, Light is a wonderful spell for drow-fighting. Cast light on crossbow bolts, then shoot them at the drow. For one thing, multiple Light sources make it hard for them to counter with Darkness. Secondly, their light blindness really sucks when the crossbow bolt is glowing an in their shoulder.

I also like to use Light to explore long passageways. Light a sling stone and shoot it straight ahead... you get a brief glimpse of what's ahead, and a point of reference to move towards.

Open/Close doesn't specify only unattended objects, or only non-magical objects. Get rid of their Monk Belt or even their normal belt. Unbuckle straps on armor or saddles. They get a will save, but what of it?

Lullaby is great if you're at an inn and want a baby to shut up for the night.

As a Cleric or Druid, Purify Food and Drink is a good thing to work into your daily prayers over meals. Don't even mention that you're casting... just let the DM know that you're doing it.

Flare is a useful way to send a quick signal... it doesn't last long (meaning less chance to track it to a specific point), is brighter than a light spell, and those who are looking for it will know what it means.

Create water is a good way to add weight to traps you want to trigger... a relatively light container might not set it off, but 60lbs of water is about a halfling... 120# and you're looking at a heavy elf. It's also useful for diluting acid.

I like the suggestion of using Ray of Frost or Acid Splash to foil a lock... even if you're not trying to pick it, it will certainly mess it up (of course, I have some fondness for Ray of Frost... the Rod of Frost from NWN was my favorite).

Just a few thoughts.

kjones
2007-11-05, 02:11 PM
Another great one was when we finally got the vampire down to unconsciousness and were looking around this empty shack we'd encountered him in for a stake. The bard cast Summon Musical Instrument, and we had the fighter make an awesome Strength check to use the neck of the violin. :smallwink:

Somewhere, somehow, Buffy is smiling.

Seriously, this is the show that has killed vampires with tree branches, pencils (wielded telekinetically), chopsticks... you name it.

Swordguy
2007-11-05, 02:15 PM
BoEF Campaign:

My wife is playing a male tantric spellcaster. She used prestidigitation to make his...uh...."essence" taste like mint chocolate.

The character became VERY popular.

MrNexx
2007-11-05, 02:19 PM
Somewhere, somehow, Buffy is smiling.

Seriously, this is the show that has killed vampires with tree branches, pencils (wielded telekinetically), chopsticks... you name it.

The phrase you are looking for is "cheesecloth ribcage".

GuesssWho
2007-11-05, 02:33 PM
The phrase you are looking for is "cheesecloth ribcage".

No kidding.

Hannes
2007-11-05, 02:38 PM
Dancing Lights and Ghost Sound to make murderers go crazy and repent. Did it once, was fun. A bard whose name was Abdul. He got killed by skeletons wielding paralyzing swords.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-05, 02:52 PM
Downpour use listed in SRD, guess YOU wouldn't even bother to check the SRD.


EDIT: My bad, didn't see your retraction. Apologies.

EXCUSE me? I did read the SRD, and apparently more thoroughly than you. The general rule for conjuration is that you cannot summon a creature or material in open air. Period. That's what the PHB says (See Chapter 10: Magic under the Conjuration heading). That's what the SRD says. Or did YOU not read the SRD insofar as even the basic general rules of the schools of magic? I merely admitted that it is possible to interpret the *specific* text of Create Water (as specific text, it would override general rules), however, as inferring that it is an exception (though the wording is not entirely clear on this point, unlike in most cases where an exception to a general rule will be quite explicit). That is hardly a retraction, sir. :smallmad:

I *ALWAYS* check my sources (especially if it's as accessible as the SRD), or if I don't, I explicitly will warn that I do not have access to my books at the moment and am going off memory, and I *ALWAYS* bother to read everything whoever I'm responding to said so that I don't end up saying "sorry, I didn't read what you said" in an edit.

Blanks
2007-11-05, 03:04 PM
Use prest* to make dice roll "funny" and get people to fight each other?

use it to entertain the village children - gather information? :)

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-05, 03:11 PM
Water is neither a creature, nor an object.

What makes you think water isn't an object? :smallconfused:


Either way, specific spell text always overrides general text.
You say this like it's supposed to be a rebuttal, when I myself acknowledged that fact in my own argument. This does not constitute a rebuttal of my position, but thanks for the logical fallacy. :smallannoyed:

Thing is, I can think of more than a few ways to create a downpour without actually creating a glob of water in open air. In no way does the wording of Create Water explicitly contradict the general rule (usually, you *do* get exceptions to major general rules noted a bit more clearly, but it IS WotC...). Though I suppose it can be a valid interpretation (as I *already said,* and apologized for being so harsh on what seems to be a perfectly tenable interpretation), so is mine.

Blanks
2007-11-05, 03:20 PM
Stop hijacking the thread! :smallfurious:

This thread is about fun uses of cantrips - respect the original poster!

Please make a thread about create water or get a moderator to split this thread :(

Shishnarfne
2007-11-05, 03:28 PM
Of course, Mage Hand/Prestidigitate can be used to cheat in dice games if the other players don't look too closely...

Blanks
2007-11-05, 03:30 PM
cast firetrap on something small. leave in hallway. wait for monsters to come close. open/close :)

prest*: press buttons and pull switches?

arcane mark: aka "find the werewolf when he is turned human again" or mark the masked dude with an invisible mark :)

create water: waking up sleeping characters ? depends a bit on the DM :smallsmile:

kjones
2007-11-05, 03:35 PM
The phrase you are looking for is "cheesecloth ribcage".

Hm... According to Wikipedia, this is because vampires are particularly vulnerable to wood. YMMV, of course.

MrNexx
2007-11-05, 03:36 PM
cast firetrap on something small. leave in hallway. wait for monsters to come close. open/close :)

Did something like this in a game. I was playing a diabolist in PF, a class whose magic revolves around writing "wards" (in D&D terms, they'd be runes). I filled a book with various explosive area affect wards (severely damaging myself in the process; area affect was a modifier which required HP to use), then dropped it amongst a group of enemies. No matter who opened the book, or how, they would get the entire book full of wards launched around them.

Severely slowed down mining operations.

Enlong
2007-11-05, 03:43 PM
S'more things:

Use Flare and aim away from faces to become a human(oid) light show! Presto also comes in handy. Makes for cheap entertainment that can earn you some coin.

While some poor fool is sleeping, use Open/close to open his money-purse and airlift the coins out with Presto or Mage Hand. (even with Presto, that's 50 coins at once, unless I miss my guess...)

Purify Food and Drink to foil the plans of the evil cult/paragons of good by turning their unholy/holy water into just plain ol' water.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-05, 03:46 PM
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168634 Linkified for cleverness.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50733&highlight=amanuensis And the original.

Ghost sound is amazing if cleverly used. You can end encounters with it, doing everything from imitating the sound of the city watch coming to the voice of God. Or just making a distraction to sneak by. Or taking advantage of the ability to make (almost) *any* sound to aid theatrics and the like

Detect Magic can locate invisible people, or people behind barriers, and similar such uses. It even has a limited tracking ability.

Hranat
2007-11-05, 03:54 PM
Everything involving things that can burn...

Remember remember the fifth of november? No need to get close, light things up from distance... how different history would have been with magic...

Karsh
2007-11-05, 04:44 PM
I like the concept of a Dragon using Mage Hand to read a book since they don't have hands and most books aren't Dragon-sized to begin with.

Arakune
2007-11-05, 05:05 PM
I like the concept of a Dragon using Mage Hand to read a book since they don't have hands and most books aren't Dragon-sized to begin with.

How they can read it in the first place?

F.L.
2007-11-05, 05:32 PM
Dragons have a lot of skill points. Common language only costs 1. And there are no rules for minimum focal lengths, visual resolutions, or the actual problems that would prevent a dragon from reading books. Alternately, shapechanging magic or magic eyeglasses would fix that problem.

Blanks
2007-11-05, 05:58 PM
I am crazy about firetrap. That spell is the most abusable spell EVAH :smallbiggrin:

big chest with 10 smaller chests inside. A piece of string from the lid of the big chest to each of the small one. Firetrap on big chest plus all the small ones. leave unlocked. Have a "good friend" open it :smalltongue:

Copacetic
2007-11-05, 06:15 PM
Use dancing lights, ghost sound, daze, and presto to make it appear like you are a radiant god to your jail guard.:smallbiggrin:

Goumindong
2007-11-05, 07:10 PM
What makes you think water isn't an object? :smallconfused:


It is not Solid. Just like you can summon cloudkill or obscuring mist to a location that is occupied by creatures.

Also, regarding the "wa wa wa, i said it was an exception" no, you didnt, you said that you might possibly be able to read it as one, then went right back to saying "the rules say you cant"

Yodaman23
2007-11-05, 07:36 PM
I am playing a warlock 1/wizard 7 based on Professor Pharnsworth from Futurama. The whole character is based off crazy magical items and is old and senile and is the definition of chaotic. Having prepared 2 uses of Magic Hand and 2 uses of Presto he stood on the sidelines of an archery contest and nudged the arrows off target. He's also made himself smell so bad with presto that the guards don't want to hold him anymore.

Chronos
2007-11-05, 08:10 PM
Having prepared 2 uses of Magic Hand and 2 uses of Presto...Not needed. A single casting of Prestidigitation (I didn't even look that up) lasts an hour, and lets you perform tricks for that entire time. Presumably, you can only have one trick going at a time, and also presumably, each one is a standard action, but still, that's 600 tricks for the low, low price of a level 0 spell.

MrNexx
2007-11-06, 01:04 AM
Dragons have a lot of skill points. Common language only costs 1. And there are no rules for minimum focal lengths, visual resolutions, or the actual problems that would prevent a dragon from reading books. Alternately, shapechanging magic or magic eyeglasses would fix that problem.

Dragons have very keen eyesight... don't need things like that.

toddex
2007-11-06, 01:09 AM
Do you seriously believe that a level 0 spell should be able to kill someone? This is not imagination and the spirit of fun, this is munchkining at its worst. It's like saying "the rules do not say that a human cannot have 4 hands and have rich parents that shower him with magical items 10 minutes after the adventures starts, so I do!" - as mentioned before, you mistake creativity for cheating.

I really think you need to put more points into your Reading Comprehension skill.

ub3r73k
2007-11-06, 01:34 AM
The Secret to Killing Someone With Presto.....:smallbiggrin:
Dig a whole 4 feet deep and fill it full of shortspears or daggers pointing up.
Get someone to chase you.
Cast presto to create a 2d illusion over the whole.
don't fall in the hole.
lead them to fall in the whole.

:smalltongue:

Bender
2007-11-06, 01:58 AM
I considered taking ranks in perform(prestidigitation) for a really memorable show

Artanis
2007-11-06, 12:00 PM
Somewhat back on topic...

Using Create Water to help put out a building fire. As a bonus, Floating Disk actually came in handy for transporting said water away from the caster.

MrNexx
2007-11-06, 12:44 PM
I considered taking ranks in perform(prestidigitation) for a really memorable show

I had a character who had Perform (Ghost Sound).