PDA

View Full Version : Polymorph Any Object / Reincarnate question.



Aquillion
2007-11-04, 10:32 PM
If a player uses Polymorph Any Object to assume a new race permanently, do they aquire the level adjustment of the new race (assuming it even has one?)

For that matter, if a player is Reincarnated into or out of a race with a level adjustement, does their ECL change to suit?

Laurellien
2007-11-04, 10:35 PM
Reincarnate yes, PAO no.

Reincarnate you permanently become the new race, everything included. However, PAO works like alter self, and so doesn't give you Sp abilities, racial hitdice, level adjustment, and perhaps one or two other things.

Douglas
2007-11-04, 11:07 PM
Also, PaO can be dispelled, Reincarnate can't.

Break Enchantment can undo a Reincarnate, though, but that just leaves you dead again. :smalleek:

Jasdoif
2007-11-04, 11:29 PM
Break Enchantment can undo a Reincarnate, though, but that just leaves you dead again. :smalleek:And today's lesson: Heighten your reincarnate to 6th level.

Dode
2007-11-05, 05:24 AM
But can you PAO a corpse back to life? Or at least a semblance thereof.

martyboy74
2007-11-05, 06:39 AM
You can PAO a corpse to life, but it won't have any specific personality (read: does not work like true rezz).

SoD
2007-11-05, 07:01 AM
What??? Reincarnate is reversable??? Apart from just rekilling the guy, that is...

Mewtarthio
2007-11-05, 09:34 AM
What??? Reincarnate is reversable??? Apart from just rekilling the guy, that is...

Technically, Break Enchantment can undo any instantaneous effect of fifth level or below. That means that, if anyone has been raised with raise dead, you need only succeed on a caster level check to kill them, no save.

EDIT: Of course, you shouldn't rule that seriously.

Douglas
2007-11-05, 10:54 AM
No, Raise Dead is Conjuration. Break Enchantment only works on Enchantments, Transmutations, and curses. Reincarnate is Transmutation, though, so it (RAW) works. Not much use as an in combat spell with its 1 minute casting time, but it would be an amusing assassination technique against a sleeping reincarnated foe.

Aquillion
2007-11-05, 08:11 PM
Reincarnate yes, PAO no.

Reincarnate you permanently become the new race, everything included. However, PAO works like alter self, and so doesn't give you Sp abilities, racial hitdice, level adjustment, and perhaps one or two other things.Reincarnate doesn't quite include everything:


A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.It is implied that you keep Wisdom, Intelligence, and Charisma modifiers. This could be abused by (say) taking an absurd LA race with extremely high bonuses to those three stats, then getting reincarnated... it's random, sure, but you're sure to lose your LA and keep your massive bonuses.

Zeful
2007-11-05, 08:39 PM
Reincarnate doesn't quite include everything:

It is implied that you keep Wisdom, Intelligence, and Charisma modifiers. This could be abused by (say) taking an absurd LA race with extremely high bonuses to those three stats, then getting reincarnated... it's random, sure, but you're sure to lose your LA and keep your massive bonuses.

In you quote it says you remove racial modifiers. So if a race has a + to int you lose that. How ever it doesn't mention age modifiers so, just keep reincarnating yourself and growing old. infinate pluses to Int Wis and Cha!

martyboy74
2007-11-05, 08:40 PM
Until the inevitables come to kill you en mass.

Dode
2007-11-05, 08:43 PM
Yes, level drain and Con-damage yourself to ultimate powaaahhhh.

It would be funny if the world's smartest being was a level 1 Wizard with 1 HP

Zeful
2007-11-11, 05:19 PM
Except that when you can cast reincarnate your generally powerful enough to keep gaining experiance. You can be level 20 with a 45 int as a fighter.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-11, 05:29 PM
The best way to avoid reincarnate tricks like that is just to say that, for instance, Grey Elves really just have superior brains, so you get all the racial stuff. Otherwise, you get a Phrenic Half-Dragon Grey Elf (Int +8, Cha +6, Wis +2) taking that ridiculous +5 LA, then comitting suicide and coming back with all that stuff at LA +0.

Kioran
2007-11-11, 05:30 PM
Could you "reassamble/recreate" a corpse with PaO? Probably not, but it would actually be an interessting use concerning reanimation.....

SadisticFishing
2007-11-11, 05:55 PM
Urm, it does not give the ECL, nor does it give the mental ability adjustments.

Zeful
2007-11-11, 06:07 PM
First @Sadistic Fishing: I believe Mewtarthio was taling about starting as a Grey Elf, dieing and useing reincarnate to remove the LA+


The best way to avoid reincarnate tricks like that is just to say that, for instance, Grey Elves really just have superior brains, so you get all the racial stuff. Otherwise, you get a Phrenic Half-Dragon Grey Elf (Int +8, Cha +6, Wis +2) taking that ridiculous +5 LA, then comitting suicide and coming back with all that stuff at LA +0.
How ever the first thing it says about stats is that you remove all racial modifiers before adding the new races phyisical modifiers, so that doesn't work.

Chronos
2007-11-11, 06:19 PM
It's still potentially cheesable, though: If you come back as a dwarf, you get the dwarf's LA (0, of course) and a boost to Con, but you don't get the Cha penalty. And if you started as human, I think you'd keep your bonus feat, and any skill points up to the level you come back as. So you could effectively be a short human with unbalanced ability modifiers and no LA. This is, of course, dependent on the dice.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-12, 06:37 PM
How ever the first thing it says about stats is that you remove all racial modifiers before adding the new races phyisical modifiers, so that doesn't work.

That's physical stats. I'm arguing they should apply to mental stats as well.

Of course, the real reason that trick doesn't work is that the Half-Dragon template changes your type, so you'd come back as some sort of Dragon. *shudder* Yeah, you might want to ignore that.

Jack_Simth
2007-11-12, 07:01 PM
And today's lesson: Heighten your reincarnate to 6th level.

And just for giggles, Maximize it. There is a variable, numeric effect in Reincarnate.... and guess what the max result is....

Icewalker
2007-11-13, 01:22 AM
Well the ideas of PAOing bodies gave me an awesome idea for a necromancer BBEG.

Artanis
2007-11-13, 12:01 PM
There's also the bit about it giving you a young body, so you can stack up the age modifiers to the mental stats, get killed and reincarnated, and voila, all the smarts of being old without the arthritis and broken hips.

Chronos
2007-11-13, 06:09 PM
And just for giggles, Maximize it. There is a variable, numeric effect in Reincarnate.... and guess what the max result is....There's a variable effect, but it's not numeric. Unless, of course, you consider "bugbear", "dwarf", "elf", and "gnoll" to be numbers. The d% roll isn't an effect; it's a means of determining an effect.

Tor the Fallen
2007-11-13, 06:17 PM
It'd always be fun to cast reincarnate on that dragonskin armor you're carrying around.

Rockphed
2007-11-14, 02:46 AM
It'd always be fun to cast reincarnate on that dragonskin armor you're carrying around.


With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than one week before the casting of the spell and the subject’s soul is free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Only if the dragon has been dead less than a week.