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View Full Version : OOTS #277 - The Discussion Thread



The Giant
2006-02-06, 03:45 AM
The Bad News: The strip is two hours later than I wanted it to be.

The Good News: That's because it's the triple-length conclusion to the crayon saga.

The Other Good News: This is Sunday's strip. There's another Monday strip coming, though don't look for it until at least 4-5 pm Eastern time, and maybe not until later in the evening.

Lord Herman
2006-02-06, 03:50 AM
Genius! Pure genius! I got tears in my eyes, those last panels are just too damn funny!

Zaku_III
2006-02-06, 03:50 AM
Wow, I like that it wasn't a big happy ending for the group.

Also, you'd been waiting for the last crayon comic to settle the Soon debate, eh? Kinda dissapointed myself, but no worries.

Excellent backstory, and the other gates should be very interesting when they come up.

Edit in Complete Jest: Damn you Herman! Damn you!

Rei_Jin
2006-02-06, 03:52 AM
Yet again an awesome comic.

I would just like to thank you Giant for giving us these comics, and the effort you go to. Being a god to so many people can't be easy.

And I for one don't care how long the next one takes, as long as it's Gold like the rest have been so far.

What do we think, will it be the Belkar vs Miko, the Trial, Xykon and Redcloak, or the Linear Guild?

Who knows? We'll have to wait and see.

Zaku_III
2006-02-06, 03:53 AM
I want it to be all four, Rei.

Knight13
2006-02-06, 03:57 AM
I doubt it will be all four, unless the Giant decides that he no longer needs to do anything besides draw comics for our amusement. ;) Thank you, Mr. Burlew!

mipers
2006-02-06, 03:58 AM
Brilliant breaking of the fourth wall! I shall be calling my agent, indeed... ;D

JamesPicone
2006-02-06, 03:59 AM
Last panel=love.

Skyserpent
2006-02-06, 03:59 AM
Whoo! Go Hinjo!

nerve
2006-02-06, 04:00 AM
triple-lengh strip - that's how I like my monday mornings :)

AND Haley wet& nearly naked.. wow - I guess some guys wont be able to take their eyes from the last panel :))

great job!!!

Ryltar_Swordsong
2006-02-06, 04:02 AM
The last 4 panels were great. Well worth the wait.

Haley: Are we back?

Dispozition
2006-02-06, 04:04 AM
Awesome as ever. Keep up the great work.
Loved the last 4 panels.


P.S. I take offence to that nerve.

Euphemism
2006-02-06, 04:08 AM
BWAHAHAHAHA!
<wheeze>

lofrothepirate
2006-02-06, 04:09 AM
Hmm. I wonder if this all means that Xykon has run afoul of the Sapphire Guard before, though. Clearly he must have known about the gates for a while... And the Guard might have noticed someone snooping into That Which Must Not Be Snooped.

-E

soni
2006-02-06, 04:11 AM
Hinjo's going to command the Sapphire Guard? But he's not a proper Paladin- he doesn't have a stick up his ass (yet)!

Nerd-o-rama
2006-02-06, 04:17 AM
Ah, a grand conclusion for the Order of the Rifts saga, that stupid Soon/Shojo argument ended, and Haley in a towel. For this, I think we can all forgive a couple hours' lateness.

I was wondering how Kraagor was going to guard a gate when he was perma-killed...he's guarding it In Memoriam.

And is it just me, or did Soon and Papa Shojo not stick around very long? If the Gates were made and the Sapphire Guard formed between 60 and 66 years ago, and Shojo's been ruling for 47, that's an average (lifetime) reign of 6.5 to 9.5 years between them. Hmm.

Sleffie
2006-02-06, 04:21 AM
I would say that "Are we back?" is exactly what Haley is saying, yes. :)


Jay for triple-length conclusions!


I think there's still some time left before Shojo will die, plenty of time to implant a stick up Hinjo's ass anyway... or hope it will grow there.

Dugray
2006-02-06, 04:30 AM
Ah, a grand conclusion for the Order of the Rifts saga, that stupid Soon/Shojo argument ended, and Haley in a towel. For this, I think we can all forgive a couple hours' lateness.

I was wondering how Kraagor was going to guard a gate when he was perma-killed...he's guarding it In Memoriam.

And is it just me, or did Soon and Papa Shojo not stick around very long? If the Gates were made and the Sapphire Guard formed between 60 and 66 years ago, and Shojo's been ruling for 47, that's an average (lifetime) reign of 6.5 to 9.5 years between them. Hmm.


Maybe Soon just wanted to retire, at that point Shojo's father would have ruled for 20 years.

Elurindel
2006-02-06, 04:35 AM
Wow, the giant just keeps on giving ;D
At last we know why the gates are so important, and which ones might already be compromised. I loved the way the OOTS were all sitting around waiting for it to be over, and then Haley comes on in a towel. I guess adventuring does make yoy rather smelly without frequent washing.

Leo_Forestclaw
2006-02-06, 04:43 AM
What a incredible conclusion to the Crayon Campaign! I've often wondered what could drive a party of adventurers apart and the painful reminder of a friend's death... ya, that could do it.

I do have one question: What happened to Girard's goatee? It rather seems to be missing - assuming he didn't shave in-betwwen #276 and #277.

iltharanos
2006-02-06, 04:54 AM
Hiroji is Shojo's successor? Awesome. Now let's just hope nothing were to happen to either Shojo or Hiroji ... 'cause then that'd be quite annoying if Miko were next in line.

Eldhrin
2006-02-06, 04:59 AM
Oh my don't even think about that possibility!

Brilliant comic Rich, I was cackling for at least ten minutes before I could summon up the energy to press the Post button. And another comic today as well (well, tomorrow in this time zone). I feel highly privileged.

illathid
2006-02-06, 05:01 AM
i love it! good work as always Giant...

Marller
2006-02-06, 05:04 AM
Awesome, thanks Giant. :)

I guess Elan went to the toilet, if Haley can take a shower. ;)

manscatha
2006-02-06, 05:06 AM
The trees are my favourite. In fact I think I shall be making myself a Guardian Tree icon in the near future.

I am so, so sad that they would have perished in that forest fire...

Fale
2006-02-06, 05:20 AM
That comic was both very interesting and funny. Good job!

rosebud
2006-02-06, 05:20 AM
Let's see...

1) Killing goblins

I can imagine poor little redcloak, just off panel, watching with horror as the Sapphire Guard cut down his father.

2) Haley fan service, again. Poor Haley. Tee hee. Oh, good, someone's decoded it.

3) I'd ask where Elan was carrying the yo-yo, but if he had a paddle ball and jam, it's probably not worth the botther. He does look so cute with the yo-yo.

4) Library purge/Crusade

Interesting parallels that could be drawn, but the one amusement is the one book in a library that did not purge the information. Ah, for the joy of journals.

5) I like V in what appears to be the yoga position. I just don't understand why V wasn't listening intently to the entire explanation. It's not like she's easily bored. Ditto for Roy. If you're going to be dragged to the Southern Lands, you'd think those two were listening.

6) Where's Durkon?

7) Oh my word. I LOVE the crayon rays of light on the chair. The fourth step is oddly longer, though.

8] Yeah, the time sequence confused me, too. Soon seems to have aged and died too fast. Shojo's father, as well. And Shojo seems too old, as well. Maybe it's a heavy burden. It would have been interesting, though, if they had destroyed something that was centuries (or longer) old.

I do like that Hinjo will outrank Miko some day, though. (Assuming she's around to be outranked.)

9) I wonder if they retained the knowledge for building the gates. One would hope so.

10) I could see why Durokan would dissociate from Soon and Girard, but I thought he was trying to get into Lirian's magical door (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=196). And they worked together on the spells.

11) Pur-ple worm. Purrrrple worm (http://www.giantitp.com/GuestStrips.html). :) (And cute idea for guarding.)

12) I don't see why anyone in the party would have opened Durokan's gate. There's no particular reason for it to easily open for the pure of heart, is there? (The sigils and necklace could be considered separate.) They never wanted those gates opened. That was the entire point of them.

enigma
2006-02-06, 05:25 AM
Wonderful Giant.

Kinda sad the crayon epic is over, but can't wait to find out the outcome of the trial. And I wonder how Miko and Belkar are doing. And wouldn't it be great if a message for Roy comes soon?

Enigma

Nerd-o-rama
2006-02-06, 05:35 AM
I also liked Shojo's little spin in favor of his Fearless Leader:

"Spells were readied in anger, and blades drawn in self-defense."

Sure. Honorable ol' Soon was just protecting himself from the marauding arcanists.

Hmm...where was Lirian througout this whole falling out sequence? And did she and Dorukan, at least, remain associated? In fact, I think the main conflict here was Soon vs. Everyone Else, rather than a free-for-all blame game. But that could just be because of who's narrating.

The Giant
2006-02-06, 05:35 AM
Re: timing, it's not apparent from the crayon drawings, but Soon is supposed to already be in his late 40's when his wife is killed (his wife is in her 30's). Then it's 19 more years until Shojo takes command. In the panel showing the two Shojos, Shojo II is supposed to be about 12 (old enough to already be learning in his father's court). If Shojo takes control of Azure City when he's 21 (let's say), then Soon passed the baton more than 56 years ago. That would make Soon in his late 50's when he passes control to Shojo I. Not too early to die of old age in a medieval setting, especially for someone still grieving his spouse. Shojo II would then be around 68, downright ancient by these health standards.

The Giant
2006-02-06, 05:38 AM
12) I don't see why anyone in the party would have opened Durokan's gate. There's no particular reason for it to easily open for the pure of heart, is there? (The sigils and necklace could be considered separate.) They never wanted those gates opened. That was the entire point of them.

Well, we don't actually KNOW if the gate opened for the pure of heart. We just know that Xykon THOUGHT it would. But since no one ever touched it, we don't know if Dorukan ever intended it to be opened at all. It could be that Elan would have been zapped too if he had touched it, pure heart notwithstanding.

EDIT: But I just missed Girard's goatee. I guess maybe he shaved, it took a while to build those gates after all.

Maryring
2006-02-06, 05:42 AM
I liked this one. Especially the "aren't we supposed to get a two panel warning?" line. It's pure bliss.

Theo_Axner
2006-02-06, 05:45 AM
I do have one question: What happened to Girard's goatee? It rather seems to be missing - assuming he didn't shave in-betwwen #276 and #277.

Maybe he had an alignment change.

Sleffie
2006-02-06, 05:49 AM
5) I like V in what appears to be the yoga position. I just don't understand why V wasn't listening intently to the entire explanation. It's not like she's easily bored. Ditto for Roy. If you're going to be dragged to the Southern Lands, you'd think those two were listening.


V wasn't listening intently because V already knew that this part of the tale was going to be told, V had already read the script for today's comic so V didn't have to actually pay attention to it again.

Especially since V didn't have anything to comment in the crayon story itself this comic.


As we've seen before, the OotS characters often behave like they are only actors playing out this comic, so when there is a big monologue by Shojo, it gives them time to relax.

FireLance
2006-02-06, 06:14 AM
Re: timing, it's not apparent from the crayon drawings, but Soon is supposed to already be in his late 40's when his wife is killed (his wife is in her 30's). Then it's 19 more years until Shojo takes command. In the panel showing the two Shojos, Shojo II is supposed to be about 12 (old enough to already be learning in his father's court). If Shojo takes control of Azure City when he's 21 (let's say), then Soon passed the baton more than 56 years ago.Let's say Shojo takes control of Azure City at 31 instead. A 21-year old with a 12-year old son kind of boggles the mind. ;)

infiniteviking
2006-02-06, 06:24 AM
New poster delurking to state that this is the FUNNIEST STRIP EVER (except for the Doily Effect, but only by default).

Great end to the backstory... and I lost it with Elan's yoyo and Vaarsuvius rapt in meditation. I love the way everyone knows the exposition is mostly for the audience's sake.

So Soon is not Shojo, but there is a gate inside Azure City... fascinating. Can't wait for the Order to put on their defense!

Thanks for the good news, Giant, and thanks for your hard work and imagination!

The Giant
2006-02-06, 06:26 AM
Let's say Shojo takes control of Azure City at 31 instead. A 21-year old with a 12-year old son kind of boggles the mind. *;)

Ummm, no. You're misunderstanding. Soon NEVER has control of Azure City, and there are TWO Shojos. The sequence of events is:

Let's say 76 years ago: Shojo I (age, say, 25) ascends to throne of Azure City. Soon (age 38) is his samurai.

68 years ago: Shojo I (age 33) becomes a father when Shojo II is born.

66 years ago: Soon (age 48) discovers rifts, etc.

64 years ago: Soon (age 50) founds Sapphire Guard.

56 years ago: Soon (age 58) gives control of Sapphire Guard to Shojo I (age 45), who has ruled Azure City for 20 years. Shojo II (age 12) looks on. Soon then dies.

47 years ago: Shojo I (age 59) dies. Shojo II (age 21) ascends throne of Azure City.

Today: Shojo II (age 68) rules Azure City.

FireLance
2006-02-06, 06:30 AM
Ah, my bad. :P At least that's cleared up now. :)

Dark_Stalion
2006-02-06, 06:34 AM
I was, too a little confused at first, giant, but tht clears it up nicely.

Love the last few pannels, especially since they hark back to the mail answering edition we got earlier. Love the references to the way that theyre all actors especialy with the way Redcloak refers to them at the begginning of the OoPCs.

All in all, Yay!

Ilover_Juventad
2006-02-06, 06:37 AM
Haha, FINALLY, thank you Rich, no more Shojo is Soon posts! Great strip.

IRSWalker
2006-02-06, 06:38 AM
Great method acting from Haley there, keeping up her speech defect even off-set. :)

late
2006-02-06, 06:45 AM
When I started reading OotS I thought it was just another, though well done, comic with loosely bound strips. Some adventurers enter a dungeon, kill the foes, seek treasure and so on.
Now we see the that there was a big picture from the very beginning...
I' m very pleased to be witness of this stroy evolving to a an epic andventure.


ps.: I'm not native english, please ignore foolish mistakes

Vampire_Boy
2006-02-06, 07:09 AM
5) I like V in what appears to be the yoga position. I just don't understand why V wasn't listening intently to the entire explanation. It's not like she's easily bored.

Oh, I am quite confident that V did hear everything that was worth hearing. She can probably pull off meditating and listening at the same time, anyways.

Silmarwen
2006-02-06, 07:29 AM
Awesome comic today. It is very sad what happend to Soon's party. And it all ends up with 2 hillarious panels :)

You are such a good storyteller Giant !

Adeptus
2006-02-06, 07:31 AM
...That would make Soon in his late 50's when he passes control to Shojo I. Not too early to die of old age in a medieval setting, especially for someone still grieving his spouse. Shojo II would then be around 68, downright ancient by these health standards.

Funnily enough people did live pretty much as old as we do now in the olden days. It's just that child mortality was huge, and people died in all ages a more often.

But it's quite possible, and even realistic to have people aged 70, 80 or even 90 in a lo-tech setting.

I study Biology at the university of Turku, and we've done some studies in life expectancy in the villages of Lappland some 200 years ago (very primitive indeed). That's what the data points to.

Still, the Giant is of course right. It's quite realistic to die aged 50 in those days... heck, it's pretty realistic these days too.

Zantetsuken_Kokoro
2006-02-06, 07:48 AM
I must say, I especially loved that bit of drama at the beginning.

"And you don't care if your allies fall, as long as you avenge your dead wife!"

Makes one think that Soon wasn't acting entirely as honorable as he thought he was. Of course, it's probably just Dorukan's opinion.

Gilthans
2006-02-06, 08:04 AM
I wouldn't say Shojo I (AKA Shojo Senior) was 40 at that panel, but at a first glance I thought he was a female anyway :P
You rule, giant. Great wrap-up, great storyline. I can so see how Serini falls in love with Girard :)

I, too, was baffled by Girard's lack of a goatee... I guess slips happen. Maybe he changed his alignment so he could guard those gates because Soon wouldn't let an evil character do it :)

Again, giant, you rule.

Gilth, out

The Doctor
2006-02-06, 08:16 AM
A fun demonstration of the difference between the characters (who, esp Roy and V, would like to know every detail), and the players (hurry up DM, we wanna roll some dice). I guess Durkon's player is the only one who is really interested ;)
I have to add: a Haley-dragged-from-the-shower-in-naught-but-a-towel really made my day. But I'm easy to satisfy.
*twiddles TARDIS key to forward to 5 AM*

Blaznak
2006-02-06, 08:40 AM
Ok, this was an excellent run by the Giant.

Amazing to see the two dimensional made three dimensional yet again...

Nice story arc, very nice...

Devoured_Dude
2006-02-06, 08:52 AM
The crayon sequence is great stuff, Giant!

It occurred to me that if this comic were indeed the result of a tabletop D&D game, the players would be bored out of their minds by now. A long railroad plot followed by an hour of DM exposition? The last player who rolled dice would be Roy on an untrained Diplomacy check to debate legal technicalities! At least Belkar was getting into some combat recently.

Rainee_Sue
2006-02-06, 09:28 AM
Leave it to yon Giant to give me something to smile about on a Monday morning as I trot off to a Distribution Logistics test that I'm probably gonna tank. Lovely work as usual, Rich.

afarrell
2006-02-06, 09:58 AM
A lot to like here. All the strengths of the strip in one.

I particularly like the flaw in the paladin's plan: the one book they couldn't find was in the posession of an itinerant halfling, and when she dies, it eventually made its way into Xykon's hands.

Um, but I don't understand how it works with the previous strip. There's dwarves making a fortress+gate for Durokan (after the split?) with Durokan+Lirian in the background (before the split?). And it's both shoddily made and immensely warded?

I'm amused by the people going "hommina-hommina" over Haley in a towel, as that's 50% more cloth than she usually wears.

Zink
2006-02-06, 09:58 AM
Awesome strip. I was confused about the ages (and argued with a friend about Shojo's liability) until I saw the "official" records. I just assumed that the Giant used the same rules as in the PHB for aging, according to which one is not venerable until the age of 70, and no one dies of old age before reaching 72 ;)

I generally have a prbolem though with scenes like this, when the PCs act out of character. It makes it much harder to connect to the character. But it's worth it anyway; I really like how Haley speaks Jargled even out of character.

Zeekar
2006-02-06, 10:09 AM
Let's see...

5) I like V in what appears to be the yoga position. I just don't understand why V wasn't listening intently to the entire explanation. It's not like she's easily bored. Ditto for Roy. If you're going to be dragged to the Southern Lands, you'd think those two were listening.

Ah, you seem to be confusing the main-characters-as-actors vs the roles they portray in the script. (This conceit, that the characters in the strip are actors playing a role, shows up repeatedly; Redcloak's introduction to On the Origins of PCs is an excellent example.) So while Roy and V, the characters, would presumably be listening intently just off-panel, their actors would be off the clock waiting for the flashback sequence to end.

kyrin
2006-02-06, 10:10 AM
Maybe he had an alignment change.

Or maybe he was going gray. ;D

Well done, Giant. Great stuff.

JIM
aka kyrin

Serraco
2006-02-06, 10:31 AM
I think there's still some time left before Shojo will die, plenty of time to implant a stick up Hinjo's ass anyway... or hope it will grow there.

Personally, I think that if that'd happen, it would take a looong time. Either that, or get with the secret and a concentrated dose of hardship for him to harden the Good half of Lawful Good up.


EDIT: But I just missed Girard's goatee. I guess maybe he shaved, it took a while to build those gates after all.

Oooh! Oooh! Can I vote for a "Disguise Self"? He was an Illusionist / Tracker, after all.

But anyway, excellent strip. Good wrap-up.

Tawkis
2006-02-06, 10:37 AM
I must say, I especially loved that bit of drama at the beginning.

"And you don't care if your allies fall, as long as you avenge your dead wife!"

Makes one think that Soon wasn't acting entirely as honorable as he thought he was. *Of course, it's probably just Dorukan's opinion.
Indeed like the mindless, black and white my way or the highway, I'm a paladin so I'm right automaton Soon is he gets in a fury for Dorukon telling it like it is........


Of course Dorukon actually CAST the spell....


ooops guess he doesn't really have nything to sy does he. He could've held it back but didn't.

soozenw
2006-02-06, 10:44 AM
great strip rich. i especially like the way V kinda peeking in the 2nd to last strip. that made me bust up laughing! ;D

SteveMB
2006-02-06, 10:48 AM
I'm amused by the people going "hommina-hommina" over Haley in a towel, as that's 50% more cloth than she usually wears.
The Theiss Titillation Theory: A costume is sexy in proportion to the perceived likelihood that one wrong move will cause it to fall off.

(After Bill Theiss, costume designer for Trek Classic.)

SteveMB
2006-02-06, 10:56 AM
Funnily enough people did live pretty much as old as we do now in the olden days. It's just that child mortality was huge, and people died in all ages a more often.

But it's quite possible, and even realistic to have people aged 70, 80 or even 90 in a lo-tech setting.
On the one hand, someone blessed with perfect health could live to be just as old as anybody today. On the other hand, people then were a lot more likely to succumb to illnesses that would make them, in effect, old before their time (and stress tends to do that in any case). So, yes, somebody in a medieval setting could live to be a hundred, but, no, it's not unrealistic for Shojo to look wizened in his sixties.

Alfryd
2006-02-06, 11:10 AM
The Good News: That's because it's the triple-length conclusion to the crayon saga.

The Other Good News: This is Sunday's strip. There's another Monday strip coming, though don't look for it until at least 4-5 pm Eastern time, and maybe not until later in the evening.

"O Knights who say Nay, I have written you a comedy. May I go now?"
It is a good comedy. I like the laurels particularly. But there is one small problem.
"What is that?"
We are now no longer the Knights Who Say 'Nay'. We are now the Knights Who Say 'My OCD compels me to refresh frantically, damn you to searing HELL Burlewe!'
Therefore, we must give you a test.
"What is this test, O Knights of- O Knights who till recently said 'Nay'?"
Firstly... you must write for us... ANOTHER COMEDY!
"Not ANOTHER comedy!"
And then, once you have writ this comedy, you must cut down the mightiest tree in all the forest WITH... A HERRING!

(Apologies to Chapman and Co.)


Shojo II is supposed to be about 12 (old enough to already be learning in his father's court.)
"Learning at my father's knee," and the actual size of the child would argue he's not much older than 7.

Shojo II would then be around 68, downright ancient by these health standards.
The existence of clerics tends to negate most of the health hazards associated with medieval diseases. Human lifespan in the SRD matches modern standards.

Wow, I like that it wasn't a big happy ending for the group.
Yeah... at least Miko seems to have worked out her aggression up front.

I'm amused by the people going "hommina-hommina" over Haley in a towel, as that's 50% more cloth than she usually wears.
And burn.

Indeed like the mindless, black and white my way or the highway, I'm a paladin so I'm right automaton Soon is he gets in a fury for Dorukon telling it like it is...
Can we lay off the paladin-bashing given that we know virtually zilch about these characters' long-term conduct, please?

whitemane
2006-02-06, 11:44 AM
What about Zykon and Redcloak? Back in comic #196 Zykon makes reference to to the gate "accidentally being destoryed in a forrest fire."

It seems to me that Zykon and Redcloak are no less guilty of the destruction of Lirians gate than Elan and the OOTS are guilty of the destruction of Dorukans gate. So why aren't a number of paladins from the saphire guard beating down Zykons door?

Sizel
2006-02-06, 11:54 AM
, it's not unrealistic for Shojo to look wizened in his sixties.

Well said.
Then too there's magic
Haste spells aging people by a fews each time (for example).

afarrell
2006-02-06, 11:55 AM
So why aren't a number of paladins from the saphire guard beating down Zykons door?

No witnesses. Paladins turn up, find enormous pile of ash, think "bloody hippies" and return to Azure City.

theKOT
2006-02-06, 12:30 PM
Oh man that was great! I first read through it and thought that it was only the first third until I read this thread! And another strip today! sniff! this is the happiest day of my life!

Gary_Schaper
2006-02-06, 12:55 PM
6) Where's Durkon?

Cowering in terror somewhere at the thought that one of the gates is now controlled by trees.

theKOT
2006-02-06, 12:56 PM
So why aren't a number of paladins from the saphire guard beating down Zykons door?

No witnesses. Paladins turn up, find enormous pile of ash, think "bloody hippies" and return to Azure City.
No. The Divinator said she could tell that it was the Order of the Stick in the witness strip.

whitemane
2006-02-06, 01:30 PM
No. The Divinator said she could tell that it was the Order of the Stick in the witness strip.

Which brings me back to my original question... Why aren't a bunch of paladins beating down Zykons door? I would love to see a bunch of trigger happy paladins all ready to use Smite Evil go after Zkon!

SteveMB
2006-02-06, 01:41 PM
No. The Divinator said she could tell that it was the Order of the Stick in the witness strip.

In that case, Elan was the immediate cause of the destruction, so it was easy for the diviners to make the connection. For the other gate, they might have only learned that the gate was destroyed by a forest fire (which could have been started anywhere within a few square miles of space and a few hours of time).

Ravenlord
2006-02-06, 01:42 PM
Forest fires and self-destruct runes however behave differently. You can have a forest fire started with a mere accident - say, adventurers forgetting to put out a campfire; however, a self destruct rune will only set off once someone touches it which implies that person wanted to activate the rune. We don't know how the fire started either; Redcloack could have done something that only indirectly resulted in the fire which then resulted in the destruction of the gate. Diviners might be unable to tell that.

Flak_Razorwill
2006-02-06, 01:48 PM
-I hate to be a stick in the mud, but how did they finance this? I mean, unless Soon or Girard were princes or Serini was a corporate mogul. They didn't seem like the types to really field much in the way of money other than repeatedly casting mucho-level spells. Gates/magical fortresses don't come cheap I think.

-It looks like Hinjo just INHERITED the throne, because of family connections. I wonder how hard he worked for being a paladin. Not that he's a bad guy, I just hope he can pull of some good combo moves.

-Whoo! Go Haley cheesecake!

Daerthax
2006-02-06, 02:08 PM
Thanks to the Crayon Saga, I feel like a giant puzzle piece has been fitted into the whole storyline. So now I get to have hours of brainstorming what the Giant is getting ready to spring on us next.

Another good chapter in the OOTS story Giant, keep it up!

NovaNightmare
2006-02-06, 02:31 PM
I was having a bad day untill i read that comic, Thank you for making it better.

And another one coming so much the better.

Thanks for clearing up the dates and ages issues, that was confusing me as well.

Thanks Giant.

tyricm
2006-02-06, 02:31 PM
Which brings me back to my original question... *Why aren't a bunch of paladins beating down Zykons door? *I would love to see a bunch of trigger happy paladins all ready to use Smite Evil go after Zkon!

My guess would be that if it wasn't seen as an accident, then the Diviners would say something like:

Diviner: *The forest gate has been destroyed.
Shojo: *Who did it?
Diviner: *A goblin.
Shojo: *A goblin? *Is that all you got for me?
Diviner: *Well...He was wearing a red cloak...and he was hanging out with some other goblins....and I think that his name is Redcloak.
Shojo: *Fine. *Miko, go to this forest and kill all the goblins you find. *Keep an eye out for any wearing red cloaks.

Protection through anonymity and high birth rates.

Arturo
2006-02-06, 02:45 PM
Which brings me back to my original question... Why aren't a bunch of paladins beating down Zykons door? I would love to see a bunch of trigger happy paladins all ready to use Smite Evil go after Zkon!

It's probably because it's harder to capturel a powerful lich with an army and a castle than a small group of people. The lich requires more planning than just hunting him down.

djcowell
2006-02-06, 02:47 PM
Wow. Brilliant! Great backstory!
I love the behind the scenes moments. I'm confused by Haley's messed up speech while out of character though. Oh well. I'm more confused by a lot of other things in life. :)

And thanks for the glimpse at Haley's backside Rich! ;)

luilupino
2006-02-06, 02:54 PM
Men, Rich is awesome... A giant strip... Thanks a lot!!
My parents asked worried why I was laughing so loud... Priceless
Go Rich !!!!!

zibeck
2006-02-06, 03:13 PM
Haley + Towel = BEST STRIP EVER!

'Nuff said. ;)

Greebo
2006-02-06, 03:58 PM
Ah, you seem to be confusing the main-characters-as-actors vs the roles they portray in the script. (This conceit, that the characters in the strip are actors playing a role, shows up repeatedly; Redcloak's introduction to On the Origins of PCs is an excellent example.) So while Roy and V, the characters, would presumably be listening intently just off-panel, their actors would be off the clock waiting for the flashback sequence to end.


Very true...

... which actually could re-open the whole 'Belkar alignment' discussion.

As in, is Belkar really CE? Or is he just PLAYING a CE character for the strip?

;)

Greebo
2006-02-06, 04:05 PM
Am I the only one here who is slightly disturbed by the apparently large number of people who seem to be turned on by the image of Haley in a towel?

I mean - she's a *stick figure*...sure, she's cute in her way, but man, one look at her and your run-of-the-mill anorexic runs out of the room crying and swearing off of her rice-cakes.

...


...


I AM the only one here disturbed by this, aren't I...

Istielthia
2006-02-06, 04:10 PM
A fitting end to the Crayon Campaign (as somene else dubbed it) I've quite enjoyed the saga of the last week, but am also really looking forward to what's going to happen next with OoTS, Belkar & Miko, the LG & Julia, and Xykon & Co.

On why the Sapphire Guard isn't knocking down Xykon's door:

When the gate was destroyed, Xykon wasn't present, at least not bodily. As powerful as the diviners may be, they might not have been able to sense the incorporeal presence of a powerful lich. In addition, since Elan pushed the self-destruct rune, we can surmise that the destruction of the dungeon/gate/mountain area took place in a relatively short amount of time. As opposed to a forest fire, which can be set well away from the intended target, thus, when the gate was finally destroyed by the fire, the arsonist was well out of the area and perhaps was missed because of it.

Of course, this is just my .02.

ref
2006-02-06, 04:18 PM
yes, you are the only one to be disturbed. hehe... :P
I assume what people is doing is imagining some 3D Haley, I mean, Haley is drawn as a stick figure, but the characters wouldn't be so thin, really.

Second glimpse at Haley's backside if you have OtooPCs ;D

Also a few "near-misses" with Haley, like the wardrobe malfunction... Don't want to come out as a sex-junkie, but it's really a shame The OotS doesn't have an adult version ;)

Cirin
2006-02-06, 04:23 PM
Hinjo's going to command the Sapphire Guard? But he's not a proper Paladin- he doesn't have a stick up his ass (yet)!
Maybe he's multiclassing out of Paladin into a PrC before he gets that feature :)

Hinjo is going to be Miko's boss one day. Maybe that accounts for part of her bad attitude towards him, she feels superior to him, but knows he's going to be the one to be the next ruler.

Hearing about the Sapphire Guard's little book-burning expedition though, now I'm imagining a Paladin of Odin, sworn to the protection of Knowledge, duelling Sapphire Guard paladins sworn to the destruction of learning.

Friv
2006-02-06, 04:29 PM
-I hate to be a stick in the mud, but how did they finance this? I mean, unless Soon or Girard were princes or Serini was a corporate mogul. They didn't seem like the types to really field much in the way of money other than repeatedly casting mucho-level spells. Gates/magical fortresses don't come cheap I think.


Ah, the joys of D&D economics. Allow me to explain:

1 GP = approximately $20.

Ring of Protection +5 = 50,000 GP. That is, 1 million dollars.

+4 Flaming Holy Longsword = 98,320 GP. That is, almost 2 million dollars.

See where I'm going here? Selling your magical items when you are retiring gives you a LOT of money.

Greebo
2006-02-06, 04:36 PM
yes, you are the only one to be disturbed. hehe... :P
I assume what people is doing is imagining some 3D Haley, I mean, Haley is drawn as a stick figure, but the characters wouldn't be so thin, really.

Second glimpse at Haley's backside if you have OtooPCs ;D

Also a few "near-misses" with Haley, like the wardrobe malfunction... Don't want to come out as a sex-junkie, but it's really a shame The OotS doesn't have an adult version ;)

Well, I suppose it all comes down to personal taste. In that case, I hope you enjoy this too. (Another stick figure, this one in a bikini)
:)http://www.legendsofwestwood.org/gallery/files/1/stickbikini.JPG

Brickwall
2006-02-06, 04:44 PM
Normally, I'd take the whole Shojo-Hinjo thing as a surprise, except it has been anticipated since Lord Shojo's first appearance. And it does throw a wrench in the Soon-Shojo theory. Which is yet another reason for me to like this comic.

Triple length
And demi-nude Haley
WOOHOOOOOO!
Okay, the nude Haley thing isn't that big of a deal. She's just a stick figure.

Devils_Advocate
2006-02-06, 05:06 PM
ooops guess he doesn't really have nything to sy does he. He could've held it back but didn't.
You mean to say that the fact that he was following someone else's directions didn't free him from all culpability? That's crazy talk! Obviously Soon was supposed to get Dorukan to do what he wanted in exchange for taking all of the blame for any fallout, because it wasn't Dorukan's decision, he just supported it! That's how it's meant to work![/sarcasm]

Aaaaand this is the point where I would make a highly tangential political analogy were such things not so wisely disallowed.


"Learning at my father's knee," and the actual size of the child would argue he's not much older than 7.
Perhaps he was an unusually small 12-year-old? Or, heck, maybe 12-year-old humans are just smaller in OOTS than in our world.


The existence of clerics tends to negate most of the health hazards associated with medieval diseases. Human lifespan in the SRD matches modern standards.
That was what I was thinking. I would expect high-level adventurers and lords of cities to have access to all sorts of high-level healing magic, and to die only of only age. Heck, even if they're killed by some malady that isn't caught in time, they can be brought back. On the other hand, maybe Soon and Shojo I questioned whether extending their personal stays in the mortal realm was an optimal use of resources, or even desirable. Heck, even if the Sapphire Guard really needs to get in touch with them later, their clerics can probably just summon up the departed leaders' spirits or something. Even failing that, there's always Speak with Dead.

Gez
2006-02-06, 05:50 PM
Am I the only one here who is slightly disturbed by the apparently large number of people who seem to be turned on by the image of Haley in a towel?

I mean - she's a *stick figure*...

People have fantasied about characters from novels. You know, books without any picture. They've fantasied about fictional creatures from myth (like faes, mermaids, etc.) that nobody ever saw, only heard off.

Or do you think that anime fans would be, in real life, turned on by girls with eyes the size of a grapefruit but no nose?

Melnor
2006-02-06, 05:58 PM
Wow. Brilliant! Great backstory!
I love the behind the scenes moments. I'm confused by Haley's messed up speech while out of character though. Oh well. I'm more confused by a lot of other things in life. *:)

And thanks for the glimpse at Haley's backside Rich! *;)



I could not agree more fully! That really was an excellent conclusion to the epic crayon saga, and the glimpse of Haley was great too! ...hee hee...

Sebastian
2006-02-06, 06:04 PM
-I hate to be a stick in the mud, but how did they finance this? *I mean, unless Soon or Girard were princes or Serini was a corporate mogul. *They didn't seem like the types to really field much in the way of money other than repeatedly casting mucho-level spells. *Gates/magical fortresses don't come cheap I think.


They were high level adventurers, probably going into Epic levels, check the wealth-by-level tables, Those dudes were loaded.

Podkayne
2006-02-06, 06:11 PM
V's line is awsome. The meditation position was great. Elan looks so funny with a yo-yo :)

But where does Mr. Scruffy come into all this? (Dun Dun DUN!)

The Giant
2006-02-06, 06:14 PM
Well, if Soon is a PC, his player can declare that his character "dies of a lonely heart" whenever he wants. And Shojo I, nowhere does it say he died of natural causes, just that he died.

As far as Shojo II's age in the picture: I think you guys have an unrealistic perception of the ability to depict children of various ages with stick figures. It's pretty much baby/child/adult, that's it. The same thing came up with Roy in the flashbacks. In order to make it clearly NOT an adult, it end up looking like a child, even if its intended to be preteen. Look at the goblin teenagers, for example.

DarkCloud
2006-02-06, 06:24 PM
What a incredible conclusion to the Crayon Campaign! *I've often wondered what could drive a party of adventurers apart and the painful reminder of a friend's death... ya, that could do it.

I do have one question: *What happened to Girard's goatee? *It rather seems to be missing - assuming he didn't shave in-betwwen #276 and #277.

I would assume that he cut it off in mourning of Kraagor's death :D

yuccadude
2006-02-06, 06:25 PM
Gotta go with the obvious one here and say...What gate(s) are you guys talking about?

U2QueenBee
2006-02-06, 06:27 PM
Cowering in terror somewhere at the thought that one of the gates is now controlled by trees.

ROFLMAO...I hadn't thought of that.

The Order are funny. We loves them we do.

I'd hug Rich, but that would be creepy (and physically impossible.)

DarkCloud
2006-02-06, 06:38 PM
What a incredible conclusion to the Crayon Campaign! I've often wondered what could drive a party of adventurers apart and the painful reminder of a friend's death... ya, that could do it.

I do have one question: What happened to Girard's goatee? It rather seems to be missing - assuming he didn't shave in-betwwen #276 and #277.

I would assume that he cut it off in mourning of Kraagor's death :D

dragon95046
2006-02-06, 06:43 PM
I wouldn't say Shojo I (AKA Shojo Senior) was 40 at that panel, but at a first glance I thought he was a female anyway :P
You rule, giant. Great wrap-up, great storyline. I can so see how Serini falls in love with Girard :)

I, too, was baffled by Girard's lack of a goatee... I guess slips happen. Maybe he changed his alignment so he could guard those gates because Soon wouldn't let an evil character do it :)

Again, giant, you rule.

Gilth, out

I almost take offense to the assertion that having a goatee makes one evil...almost. ;D

Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins
2006-02-06, 06:44 PM
Technically, one gate isn't controlled by trees. It's now controlled by Redcloak-ey fire. What?! He said one burned in a forest fire! I assumed it was that gate, as it was in a forest!

Very Nice. Very very nice. Mister Burlew. I commend ye. The last person I commended became an ignorant imbecile, but I commend ye anyway.

Definately need to get back to Miko/Belkar. May Linear Guild. I was kinda hopin' for Xykon and co. Whatever you decide, we go with.

Tharr
2006-02-06, 06:48 PM
Finally all the dumb soon is shojo theories gone.
The got the finest warriors plus dumb MIko.
Hinjo much better than Miko.
Where is Elan in the mens bathroom.
Plus a streaking Haley wet.
Lawyers are gone.

Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins
2006-02-06, 07:13 PM
On the question of the lawyers: Their time on this plane ended, and so the magic the Paladins used to summon them dissapated and they fled to their vile Lawyer-Plane.

Devils_Advocate
2006-02-06, 07:23 PM
In order to make it clearly NOT an adult, it end up looking like a child, even if its intended to be preteen. Look at the goblin teenagers, for example.
Aha! That's right! I had forgotten that Roy mistook the goblin teens for children until Haley corrected him. Evidently the characters can't easily tell the difference either.


Or, heck, maybe 12-year-old humans are just smaller in OOTS than in our world.
I hereby consider this theory confirmed. :)

Yahoo_Serious
2006-02-06, 07:37 PM
Stick figure or not, I'd say Shojo II hasn't aged well at all.

I mean, compare Shojo II (68 yrs) to Mick Jagger (63); certainly an OotS Mick wouldn't look nearly as ancient!

And hard living is no excuse; I have it from a reliable source that Mick used *far* more illicit substances in his day than Shojo II.... ;)

tyricm
2006-02-06, 07:38 PM
I'm confused by Haley's messed up speech while out of character though. Oh well. I'm more confused by a lot of other things in life.


That's easy. she's a method actor. Once she gets in character, she stays in character.

Tawkis
2006-02-06, 07:39 PM
Can we lay off the paladin-bashing given that we know virtually zilch about these characters' long-term conduct, please?
What, lay off my baseless generalizations? I'm having far too much fun to stop now.

OffTheWall
2006-02-06, 07:43 PM
On the question of the lawyers: Their time on this plane ended, and so the magic the Paladins used to summon them dissapated and they fled to their vile Lawyer-Plane.


You mean the very, very strongly lawful-aligned plane? The one so lawful it doesn't have a moral alignment? Lawful Lawful or somesuch, which, when said aloud, sounds like Lawful Awful? Or Lawful Waffle? Or... I'll shut up now.

So, to do an "inventory" of the Order of the Crayon:

Soon: Confirmed dead of old age
Dorukan: Cornfirmed dead: killed by Xykon
Kraagor: Sealed away into the Snarl's demiplane. Presumed dead.
Lirian: Fate unknown, though her forest has burnt down.
Serini: Fate unkown. If she is still alive(not a stretch, given halfling lifespans), then she's probably quite concerned over her missing diary.
Girard: Fate unknown.

WeaponMasterLDO
2006-02-06, 07:47 PM
Great comic, i loved the last 4 panels. I wonder what Hinji will be like with a stick up his ass? Also, if he is the son of the lord Shojo, why does Miko boss him around?
???

Mattaeu
2006-02-06, 07:50 PM
awesome strip today, thank you Giant.

...i feel odd, but this is a discussion area for the strip; i'm hoping i wasn't the only to catch the spelling mistake. part 3 of 277, panel 1: geographically.

given the strip rocks regardless, you might just want to fix that for posterity. :) should i have pm'ed the Giant instead?

Kish
2006-02-06, 07:58 PM
Great comic, i loved the last 4 panels. I wonder what Hinji will be like with a stick up his ass? Also, if he is the son of the lord Shojo, why does Miko boss him around?
???
Because she outranks him in the Sapphire guard. She's earned more rank than he has yet inherited. And notice what she says to him--he shouldn't socialize with the criminals because they're beneath him, in particular.

phlip
2006-02-06, 08:26 PM
The archive has been updated... and I have to say, "Doodles on the Sketch Pad of Eternity" is an awesome title.

dragon95046
2006-02-06, 08:46 PM
There was some talk of why the diviners couldn't track down Xykon. Many of the divinations spells in D&D require that you have some sort of connection with what you are trying to divine. In other words, they are usually used to gather more information on some small kernel that is already known. That's why no one could divine anything about the Snarl, as they would have no frame of reference to begin the divinations.

As was mentioned, in the case of the forest Gate, it would be tough to use divination to follow the trail all the way back to the source. There is too little information to build upon using divination magic.

In the case of the Order of the Stick, Miko physically tracked them down through old fasioned detective work and brought them back to be tried. I think that the diviners went to work after they were in the city doing "background checks" on the Order, the diviners now having a firm grasp on just what they were looking for.

Nightfall
2006-02-06, 08:48 PM
Observation: crayons load slower than pen and ink stick figures. ;)

Correction to post above: Hinjo is Lord Shojo's nephew, not his son.

infiniteviking
2006-02-06, 08:53 PM
V wasn't listening intently because V already knew that this part of the tale was going to be told, V had already read the script for today's comic so V didn't have to actually pay attention to it again.

Hahahaha! The script motif is even confirmed by Haley's words, "Are we back?" I'd just figured that V was intelligent enough to figure out the rest of the exposition without listening, but this is much more in character.

enigma
2006-02-06, 09:18 PM
I remember the debate from last board about Kraagor's gender. If that was never resolved go to comic 196 and you'll see in Serini's diary Kraagor is a mean grrrl.

Enigma

Bilbo27
2006-02-06, 09:24 PM
Elan + Yo-yo = PRICELESS!
I thought we needed a 2 panel notice!

Sweet

Hinjo will take over for Shojo, when he passes away during the trial, and will free the OOTs crew since he will know they meant no harm.

My guess as to future outcome.

I hope we jump back to Belkar!!!

GeekDaddy
2006-02-06, 09:34 PM
So let's see... V, Elan and Haley have all "appeared" naked or at least partially clothed (granted Haley was off screen or covered by a towel and V had a strategically positioned dragon tail), Durkon had a wild fling in the dungeon depths and Roy examined his transgender side. That leaves Belkar to take a walk on the wild side, huh?


But seriously, folks. Rich, loved the back story. Great. Really! Loved it. Of course meanwhile Nale is holding Roy's sister hostage, Thog is out of sprinkles, Xykon is amassing a serious army right over that mountain there (no, there... no, no... I'm turned around... it's THAT one), Belkar is roasting marshmallows on Miko's head, cats and dogs are sleeping together...

TOO MUCH GOING ON!!! I need resolution! I need closure!!

Fortunately, I'm willing to wait for all the story lines to work themselves out (and give way to many more) over the next five or so years (give or take a decade or two).

Rich, thank you for making such a wonderful product and letting me have it for free!

theKOT
2006-02-07, 01:54 AM
I remember the debate from last board about Kraagor's gender. If that was never resolved go to comic 196 and you'll see in Serini's diary Kraagor is a mean grrrl.

Enigma

This has already been discussed. It apears to say "mean! grrr!" although is could be otherwise interpreted. There is no easy answer to this one.

M4
2006-02-07, 02:03 AM
It would seem as though another message from me is in order after this latest installment of our wonderful comic. This time I'm pointing out a script error in the 4th panel where it says:

"...no two have ever laid eyes one each other since."

I'm fairly certain the intent was to have it say:

"...no two have ever laid eyes on each other since."

Thank you for another great comic and be assured that I shall be vigilant in my shadowy observing of OOTS-ly events.

shadowfox92
2006-02-07, 02:03 AM
Posted by: enigma Posted on: Today at 7:18pm
I remember the debate from last board about Kraagor's gender. If that was never resolved go to comic 196 and you'll see in Serini's diary Kraagor is a mean grrrl.

Actually, what it says is "Mean! Grr!" The fact that Kraagor is a male is proven in #277 when Shojo is narrating about Serini after the party had split up. And I quote, "She decided that she would build a tomb for Kraagor, and fill it with the nastiest monsters in the world, to reflect his belief in the power of physical might."

deathregis
2006-02-07, 02:04 AM
GeekDaddy: As far as Belkar's wild side, Its on On the Origin of PC's page 40. 2-for-1 sale!

I liked this one. A lot.

manscatha
2006-02-07, 02:40 AM
Actually, what it says is "Mean! Grr!" The fact that Kraagor is a male is proven in #277 when Shojo is narrating about Serini after the party had split up. And I quote, "She decided that she would build a tomb for Kraagor, and fill it with the nastiest monsters in the world, to reflect his belief in the power of physical might."

But don't we know from the V. debate that all this proves is that Serini thinks Kraagor was male?

(Not actually serious.)

What surprises me more is how fond Serini seems of Kraagor in these flashbacks, given the Mean Grrr comment.

The Giant
2006-02-07, 02:42 AM
You may have noticed that the site was down for a few hours. It's been a fun evening, I'm sure RawBear will have more to say in the morning. At any rate, I stopped working on tonight's comic when I thought we would be down all night, I will resume now and post it in a few hours. It should be up by morning.

Hurlbut
2006-02-07, 02:46 AM
You may have noticed that the site was down for a few hours. It's been a fun evening, I'm sure RawBear will have more to say in the morning. At any rate, I stopped working on tonight's comic when I thought we would be down all night, I will resume now and post it in a few hours. It should be up by morning.Hehehe if only the power went out for my workplace, then I would have a good excuse not to come in ;).

Reptile
2006-02-07, 02:58 AM
You may have noticed that the site was down for a few hours. It's been a fun evening, I'm sure RawBear will have more to say in the morning. At any rate, I stopped working on tonight's comic when I thought we would be down all night, I will resume now and post it in a few hours. It should be up by morning.

Yeah, noticed that, and saw one of RawBear's posts in Board Issues. Thanks for the update (both of you).

Something I don't think people have brought up: I like the continuity of the small things. Specifically, Serini is the annoying little halfling rogue, but specifically mentions (well, strongly implies) having a high Charisma in #276. At the time, I thought it a little out of place, but perhaps she was just being chatty...but now in #277 she puts that Charisma to good use.

ARMOURERERIC
2006-02-07, 02:59 AM
You may have noticed that the site was down for a few hours. It's been a fun evening, I'm sure RawBear will have more to say in the morning. At any rate, I stopped working on tonight's comic when I thought we would be down all night, I will resume now and post it in a few hours. It should be up by morning.

How in the heck are you getting enough sleep? Don't kill yourself over this!

Eric

Jothki
2006-02-07, 03:02 AM
How in the heck are you getting enough sleep? *Don't kill yourself over this!

Eric

Yeah.

Bed. Now.

Popkorn
2006-02-07, 03:07 AM
and sleep tight :)

Count-Tyr
2006-02-07, 03:20 AM
Woot...Great strip there giant

PhoeKun
2006-02-07, 03:32 AM
Honestly, Giant. You worked yourself so hard to get us five double/triple length hand drawn crayon strips. Are you really forgoing sleep to finish another strip for us?

I know you don't need my permission, but by all means, feel free to take a hit to the schedule and get everything calmed down again. Call it a vacation - you're wrist will thank you.

Oh yeah, great strip. I'm thrilled with the way Lord Shojo's backstory turned out, and I'm quite curious to see which plotline you'll pick back up next. And of course, the final decision on whether or not to sell any of those original prints (or copies thereof).

retnuhytnuob
2006-02-07, 03:40 AM
Actually, what it says is "Mean! *Grr!" *The fact that Kraagor is a male is proven in #277 when Shojo is narrating about Serini after the party had split up. *And I quote, "She decided that she would build a tomb for Kraagor, and fill it with the nastiest monsters in the world, to reflect his belief in the power of physical might."




But don't we know from the V. debate that all this proves is that Serini thinks Kraagor was male?

(Not actually serious.)

What surprises me more is how fond Serini seems of Kraagor in these flashbacks, given the Mean Grrr comment.


I think I may have figured out a way it works out. Namely the "Mean Grrr[l or!]" reflects the fighting attitute/ abilities of the dwarf, Kraagor... rather than dislike of the same.

Antina
2006-02-07, 03:51 AM
Hey - did anybody notice?
Haleys condition is a clear case of:
Having to find an explanation IN the plot for the health-problem of one of the main actors! ;)
Because she´s clearly off stage and still cannot talk! ;)

(Just like in TV: Actress breakes her arm - authors have to find a reason for the characters arm to be broken too, because they don´t have the time to outwait the healing).

Ok - ok - I admid: maybe she´s such a good actress that she stayed in her role and the speech pattern...

Anyway: Loved the strip and Haleys strip ;)

Many THANX to the GIANT!!!

grim_chook
2006-02-07, 04:38 AM
Was that a gratuitous Hayley fan-service I spied? :o

yummy! ;D

Leo_Forestclaw
2006-02-07, 05:01 AM
What surprises me more is how fond Serini seems of Kraagor in these flashbacks, given the Mean Grrr comment.


Just a varient on interpretation, but isn't it possible Serini's "Grrr! Mean!" comment isn't an obervation on her relationship with Kraagor as much as it is a comment on his barbarian nature? Since this is a diary those could be trigger words to reminder her about what he was like as a warrior and adversary and elsewhere in the diary she could have recorded what he was like as a compainion and friend.

Kish
2006-02-07, 05:12 AM
Even a despised group member can become suddenly popular with the rest of the group when he's dead (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1130856557 ;start=515#515).

Delgarde
2006-02-07, 05:51 AM
One observation to those speculating on Hinjo becoming Miko's boss. All Shojo says is that when he dies, Hinjo will be lord of the Azure City - he doesn't say he'll lead the Sapphire Guard.

As has been made clear in previous comics, the leadership of the Guard *is* separate from leadership of the city, even though they've been joined since Soon retired. Just sayin...

JessmanCA
2006-02-07, 07:23 AM
Which gate was Xykon's gate? I am assuming that Xykon's was the one guarded by the sapphire guard. If so, why does the sapphire guard live so far from it?

Rei_Jin
2006-02-07, 07:25 AM
Xykon was at Dorukon's gate. The first 100 or so strips had varied and many references to it.

Dhavaer
2006-02-07, 07:38 AM
Which gate was Xykon's gate? I am assuming that Xykon's was the one guarded by the sapphire guard. If so, why does the sapphire guard live so far from it?

Xykon's gate was Dorukan's. Remember how it was 'The Dungeon of Dorukan'? And how Dorukan owed Celia a paycheck?

AngryDaikon
2006-02-07, 07:41 AM
Which gate was Xykon's gate? I am assuming that Xykon's was the one guarded by the sapphire guard. If so, why does the sapphire guard live so far from it?

Oi, read the comic. Xykon's gate was in the Dungeon of Durokan, the gate in Azure City is guarded by the Sapphire Guard.

Vargtass
2006-02-07, 07:54 AM
Which gate was Xykon's gate? I am assuming that Xykon's was the one guarded by the sapphire guard. If so, why does the sapphire guard live so far from it?

"Xykon's" gate was commissioned by Dorukan, which is made clear on several instances in the comic.

Edit: Sorry for this obsolete remark!

Tharr
2006-02-07, 08:21 AM
Gate what is this gate you speak of.
Thing in the shadow rules.

Amalthea
2006-02-07, 08:51 AM
The fact that Kraagor is a male is proven in #277 ... "She decided that she would build a tomb for Kraagor, and fill it with the nastiest monsters in the world, to reflect his belief in the power of physical might."
A fact that I am PROFOUNDLY grateful that it has been disseminated. The persistant "is Kraagor a girl?" was enough to drive you mad! MAD!

Shatteredtower
2006-02-07, 09:24 AM
I'm amused by the people going "hommina-hommina" over Haley in a towel, as that's 50% more cloth than she usually wears.

It's not about the clothing. Don't you see it? Her hair, her long, gorgeous, flowing hair, isn't tied up! SHE'S WEARING HER HAIR DOWN IN ALL ITS GLORY!

Ahem...

Sebastian
2006-02-07, 10:15 AM
I remember the debate from last board about Kraagor's gender. If that was never resolved go to comic 196 and you'll see in Serini's diary Kraagor is a mean grrrl.

Enigma
he was a male, look at today comic (277)

Serini "...build a tomb for Kraggor and fill it with the nasteist monsters in the world to reflect HIS belief in the power of phisical might"

Also, YAII!!! New comic is up

Sebastian
2006-02-07, 11:01 AM
Hey - did anybody notice?
Haleys condition is a clear case of:
Having to find an explanation IN the plot for the health-problem of one of the main actors! ;)
Because she´s clearly off stage and still cannot talk! ;)

(Just like in TV: Actress breakes her arm - authors have to find a reason for the characters arm to be broken too, because they don´t have the time to outwait the healing).

Ok - ok - I admid: maybe she´s such a good actress that she stayed in her role and the speech pattern...

Anyway: Loved the strip and Haleys strip ;)

Many THANX to the GIANT!!!

Good theory, Hey, it could be worse, think if she had got pregnant ;)

To extend the teory
Maybe the Belkar-Miko duel is because one of the actors's contract is over and for some reason will not be renoved so he/she have to "die" to get out of the story (only to miraculously "get better" if things change) but which one

The moment when V got turned into a lizard? The actor could not be "on video" for some time so they used a trained lizard. :D

Other ideas?

Tharr
2006-02-07, 11:35 PM
Miko is killed then hopefully Belkar gets away.