*Why* does V want Ultimate Arcane Power?

[pendell]

I'm asking for speculation ... we saw in 504 today how important it is to V to have power, as was the earlier question to the oracle.

So this is my question ... *Why* does V want ultimate arcane power? I realize that for a mage power is a goal in itself, but is that the only reason? I mean, suppose V suddenly got ultimate arcane power in the next strip. So now what? What does V do with it?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Spiryt]

It's not about *having* ultimate power, it's always about *achieving* it. Always.

[Moral Wiz]

Yay! I was waiting for a thread like this.

Anyway, in my opinion, the reasons V's currently out for power are twofold.

1; Altruism - V genuinely desires to help her friends, and laments that she can not do so.

2; Inferiority - V's been let down with a bump at the Battle of Azure City. Wizards are used to having the 4 level appropriate encounters per day, but in this situation, their power falls to it's shortest. V's just been shown that she's not good enough, and is desperate to prove that wrong. To prove that she is capable of grand arcana, and that she is powerful.

Hells, I haven't summed up inferiority very well; but can you get my point here?

The two reasons are both possible. Altruism could be the sole motivator, but it is my view that V's driven by a mixture of the two.

Which one is the more important? Well, that's a matter of Opinion. But; as V's monologue focused on the power of "arcane" not "power of friendship", I'm personally guessing inferiority is the major one.

[Spiryt]

I will stick with the opinion that she/he lusts for power just for power.
V is talking about it since the beginning of the comic, the Battle of Azure City might just give him more determination.

And I always though that he/she lusts for power just beacuse it's fine "cliched wizard" joke. It's in fact very good reason.

[geekyhedgehog]

I get it!

V wants UAP to cast Evan's Spikes Tentacles of Forced intrusion infinite times per day, so now one bothers the search for Epic Level-Legendary Strength-Infinitely Limitless-Universe-Dominating Arcane Power.

EL-LS-IL-U-DAP>UAP, and would give V no end of joy to print on business cards.

[sihnfahl]

So this is my question ... *Why* does V want ultimate arcane power? I realize that for a mage power is a goal in itself, but is that the only reason? I mean, suppose V suddenly got ultimate arcane power in the next strip. So now what? What does V do with it?

In the beginning, before AC and the Gates... V was out for the power just for power's sake. V hasn't shown him/herself inclined to do anything malicious with the power. It's just the accumulation of knowledge; I can understand this, myself, being quite the bookworm.

Now, though, it goes even further. V's little rant shows that V genuinely cares for people - V beats him/herself up for not having enough spells to save more of the AC soldiers.

It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that V now wants Ultimate Arcane Power to help save everyone from the Snarl.

[rankrath]

well, quite simply, V wants ultimate arcane power so V can spend all day making doilies.

[Moral Wiz]

In the beginning, before AC and the Gates... V was out for the power just for power's sake. V hasn't shown him/herself inclined to do anything malicious with the power. It's just the accumulation of knowledge; I can understand this, myself, being quite the bookworm.

Now, though, it goes even further. V's little rant shows that V genuinely cares for people - V beats him/herself up for not having enough spells to save more of the AC soldiers.

It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that V now wants Ultimate Arcane Power to help save everyone from the Snarl.

I agree with your assessmant of V prior to Battle of AC. However, I don't agree with your assesment of this "little rant"

V's not going on about charity, more about her own weakness. Immedietly after mentioning the soldiers, she mentions being unable to save herself, and seems to be more annoyed at her weakness, not what it cost. Charity comes in at two points at her speach, but the rant itself seems more to be an expression of being frustrated at her limits at the Arcane. She seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex at this point.

[Kurald Galain]

If somebody is going to win at D&D, it might as well be him. Her. It. Whatever.

[sihnfahl]

I agree with your assessmant of V prior to Battle of AC. However, I don't agree with your assesment of this "little rant"

V's not going on about charity, more about her own weakness. Immedietly after mentioning the soldiers, she mentions being unable to save herself, and seems to be more annoyed at her weakness, not what it cost. Charity comes in at two points at her speach, but the rant itself seems more to be an expression of being frustrated at her limits at the Arcane. She seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex at this point.

Perhaps we should look at cause and effect. In V's rant, the two are reversed in position in presentation.

Cause: I wasted my time on juvenile pranks with a sociopathic halfling!

Effect: I could have saved the lives of countless soldiers with only a slightly greater application of arcane force, but I did not possess the capacity!

V is saying that more soldiers could have lived if V had not wasted time on pranks. If V did not care about the soldier's lives, would V have even mentioned them?

[dr.cello]

Why wouldn't you want ultimate arcane power? I'd love some ultimate arcane power. Maybe I would make myself a sandwich. OUT OF NOTHING.

[Demented]

Why wouldn't you want ultimate arcane power? I'd love some ultimate arcane power. Maybe I would make myself a sandwich. OUT OF NOTHING.

If you want to be a sandwich, you're going to need several more splatbooks... And maybe a dash of psionics.

[The Extinguisher]

Couldn't you just cheap out and use Disguise (Self) to become a sandwhich.

[VetMichael]

Well, we have to look at V's alignment as well, since the OOTS clan pretty much stick to their respective alignment parameters. We know V is non-evil, so the acquisition of power for power's sake is on iffy ground (being Neutral might explain it a LITTLE, but not so completely as to be a down-pat, no-brainer conclusion). Therefore, we should look at it from a rational approach, as V would want us to be:

V's intellect is the greatest of the OOTS group, if not the entire strip. As an intellectual, he would be interested in acquiring new arcane knowledge for the enjoyment of it, and for the challenge. That latter bit, I think, is important: the CHALLENGE - V is essentially used to being the Stephen Hawking, Bobby Fischer, or Ken Jennings of OOTS - and a challenge to his intellect would be like a sword duel for Roy, or a bunch of undefended, half-naked humans/kobolds/other sentients to Belkar. The defeat at AC was a slap in his/her face that (s)he was UNABLE to meet the challenge thrown at him/her, as if his/her intellect (and thus arcane power) was inadequate. Arcane power, in AD&D and OOTS is a metaphysical manifestation of intellect.

On top of that, there is the additional challenge of the Cloister spell, which - theoretically - V should be able to find a weakness in (no spell is perfect, no matter how well cast, hence the natural 20/ natural 1 effect)


However, one of V's reasons for researching a new spell was to find his/her dear friend, Haley - a case for Good alignment, if ever I heard it - therefore, V is issued ANOTHER challenge to his/her intellect of trying to find his/her friend AND overcoming a nigh-impenetrable spell. The acquisition of power, therefore, has a purpose: the well-being of a friend, and therefore we must assume - barring a radical alignment shift - that V is Good (my guess is Neutral Good).

In conclusion, V's quest for power - as a being of "Good" alignment - is for the betterment of Elves, contributing to a growing body of Arcane Knowledge (witness V's new spell!!), the support for the well-being and dignity of sentient beings, and (now) to rescue a lost friend.

[Glyphic]

It's a fairly standard Gig for anyone wearing red robes. It's just part of the fabric, really.

[Elandegenerate]

its a common delima for people who are powerless, something happens and they decide, that if they wheren't so worthless they could stop things like that. So they go on a path for power (such as archane magic), they seek so much power because they cant stand it when they are helpless to stop something. After a while, they obsess about obtaining power they forget why they wanted it and just seek to achieve it. But after a travisty happens, they feel that again, that helplessness again. "If i where just stronger, no one would die, no one would be lonely. No child would have to grow up without parents"

This is just like in Naruto when Sasuke is just now becoming a great ninja but at that moment, Naruto suddenly starts realizing his potential.

Its a kick in the face saying "You really arent good enough. You cant do anything to stop it. You are uterrly hopeless"

Im getting all choked up for V right now :smallfrown:

[Caledonian]

I will note that "I want ultimate power!" is a four-word sentence.

Power, I think, is just a proxy for what V really wants: ultimate understanding. If you possess perfect understanding, any amount of power is absolute - you can do anything. But you possess mastery, not just mere power.

It's a matter of self-improvement.

V may also be concerned about the welfare of others in an abstract and impersonal sense, but I always saw vir as being more Lawful Neutral - it's personal relationships that are important, and the fact that so many soldiers died is less important than the fact that vir own direction was involved in the deaths of some of them.

[Forealms]

well, quite simply, V wants ultimate arcane power so V can spend all day making doilies.

You, sir, have earned a cookie :smallbiggrin:

[Xefas]

Why wouldn't you want ultimate arcane power? I'd love some ultimate arcane power. Maybe I would make myself a sandwich. OUT OF NOTHING.

This was actually gonna be my answer.

I can't see much of a reason for a person who belongs to an effectively immortal race of creatures to NOT want to master the energies of the universe.

Heck, even the shorter lived ones have lichdom to look forward to if they work hard enough...

[Charles Phipps]

I'd love it revealed that V is actually horribly racist and intends to use it to drive away the Humans that have enroached upon the lands of the Elves all these thousands of years.

And make an utter mockery of Red Cloak's Goal.

[Aquillion]

I agree with your assessmant of V prior to Battle of AC. However, I don't agree with your assesment of this "little rant"

V's not going on about charity, more about her own weakness. Immedietly after mentioning the soldiers, she mentions being unable to save herself, and seems to be more annoyed at her weakness, not what it cost. Charity comes in at two points at her speach, but the rant itself seems more to be an expression of being frustrated at her limits at the Arcane. She seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex at this point.Counterpoint: V spent the last few months making this spell. If power was the only goal, it would have been simple to devote that time to making a spell with more general applicability--something destructive, say. The fact that V focused on this instead, which applied only to the situation immediately at hand, shows that V is genuinely overcome with self-doubt and interested in helping friends, at the very least.

[JaxGaret]

I can't see much of a reason for a person who belongs to an effectively immortal race of creatures to NOT want to master the energies of the universe.

Elves in D&D are not immortal like Tolkien Elves.

[Xerxes Shadow]

Why is this a neccesary question? Who doesn't want ultimate arcane power?

I'll tell you who: ZOMBIES.

*translated for zombies' benefit* Graagh brains? Moan brains graagh? Brains brains moan: BRAINSMOANGRAAGH.

[the mysterian]

why wouldn't he want it, if i was immortal and had the possibility of becoming a god modder from hell then yes, i'd go for it.

[Kaelaroth]

So this is my question ... *Why* does V want ultimate arcane power?

Why wouldn't he? Ultimate arcane power implies alll-powerfulness. It'd rock immensely!

[dehro]

I'm asking for speculation ... we saw in 504 today how important it is to V to have power, as was the earlier question to the oracle.

So this is my question ... *Why* does V want ultimate arcane power? I realize that for a mage power is a goal in itself, but is that the only reason? I mean, suppose V suddenly got ultimate arcane power in the next strip. So now what? What does V do with it?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

you say so yourself.. (s)he's a wizard...and all wizards are morons..what do you expect?:smallbiggrin:

anyway, every wizard wants as much. the whole point both for literary and gaming purposes is that the wizard never gets it..or that when he gets it the game (or book) is finished. it'd the journey towards it that gives us material to play with or read.

[dehro]

Counterpoint: V spent the last few months making this spell. If power was the only goal, it would have been simple to devote that time to making a spell with more general applicability--something destructive, say. The fact that V focused on this instead, which applied only to the situation immediately at hand, shows that V is genuinely overcome with self-doubt and interested in helping friends, at the very least.
one shows great mastery over magic not solely by blowing things up. there are enough spells of different nature named after the wizards that created them to prove this point

[Elfanatic]

Vaarsuvius wants to possess (spelling?) Ultimate Arcane Power because he can. As an elf he has a longer lifespan, superior elven intelligence and senses (to most humans: the mindfl... eh squid thingy way back found Roy more appetising), and the benefit of being tought by elven wizards (in virtually every fantasy world, elves are the masters of magic).
Mostly, thats enough.

If I had potential to achieve such power I could move mountains, I would seriously consider looking in to that. Wether I would use that power for evil or good, I don't really know. Probably a bit of both.


You, sir, have earned a cookie :smallbiggrin:

Since he mentioned doilies, wouldn't some delicious pie or turban cake be more appropiate? :smallsmile:


why wouldn't he want it, if i was immortal and had the possibility of becoming a god modder from hell then yes, i'd go for it.

God...moddder? Divine mud?

[Iranon]

one shows great mastery over magic not solely by blowing things up. there are enough spells of different nature named after the wizards that created them to prove this point

Not all spellcasterss do... but blowing things up seems a very high priority for V from what we know so far. Coupled with s/h/its intellectual curiosity and lack of moral inhibitions (Note: not lack of morals. Different thing!), V would probably test how far s/h/it could come towards a 'Destroy World' spell.

[Sylian]

V has both good an evil parts. He seems to want to feel a little bad about the soldiers, but he's also power-hungry. He might do evil things to gain the power he wants. Before this strip, I thought he was Neutral. Now I'm leaning towards Lawful Neutral, I mean, studying for months just to rescue his friends? Shows loyalty and dedication. However, they are his friends. Even an evil creature, like Sabine, might try to rescue one of her friends, like Nale.

V is probably not good. In the end, he might end up good, neutral or evil, methinks. Good if he realises that he should focus more on helping others instead of studying. Neutral if he continues his dedicated studying without harming others. Evil if he gives in to his ambition, his lust for power. Lust for power corrupts, just look at most of the world dictators.

[Swashbuckler]

@ the OP:

The Virtue is to be found in the journey, not in reaching the destination.
(thank you fortune cookie wisdom!)

While I don't believe for a moment that V will achieve his goal perfectly (oh, he may get Epic in power, no doubt), he'll get close. If his life is ended prematurely by some whimsical error or faulty deus ex machina, upon Resurrection he should just go for lichdom and pursue his fantastical quest from a dark, monstrously-infested tower ... complete with traps and skulls and ...

... er ...

nevermind. :smallbiggrin:

[monty]

Even an evil creature, like Sabine, might try to rescue one of her friends, like Nale.

"Friends" is not exactly the right word there. For that matter, do you think either one of them would care enough to rescue Thog?

[Spiky]

What do all elves with power want? More power.

[Sylian]

"Friends" is not exactly the right word there. For that matter, do you think either one of them would care enough to rescue Thog?

Well, what about (LE villain) who rescued his (NE villain) friend? Now friend is the right word. :smallbiggrin:

I don't think they see Thog as much as a friend, probably more like a +3 intelligent dancing Greataxe. They'd rescue him if they needed him. That's my guess, anyhow. Evil people can have close friends. Evil people can be loyal.

About this thread, I think V is the sort of person that would be willingly to do very evil things to gain power, like drinking demon blood or turning into a lich. However, he's not inredeemable and might defeat his mad lust for power.

[Spiky]

"Friends" is not exactly the right word there. For that matter, do you think either one of them would care enough to rescue Thog?

Took me a minute to figure out what was wrong with this, it just didn't feel right. Got it:

It won't come up, Thog will come after THEM. Probably with a bull rush tackle hug; yeah, get out of that, evil friend!

[MCerberus]

Anyway back on subject - to have ultimate arcane power. It's kind of the end-goal of your generic neutral-aligned (slightly bent toward lawful) wizard.

[Kreistor]

It's a self-esteem issue. Why else does V go around being so intentionally androgynous? Rejection hurts a lot less when people aren't close to you.

[sihnfahl]

It's a self-esteem issue. Why else does V go around being so intentionally androgynous? Rejection hurts a lot less when people aren't close to you.
On the contrary, V is intentionally androgynous because his/her gender really doesn't factor into things.

V is happily married and totally devoted to his/her mate.

So, with that in mind, what's the significance of V identifying himself as a guy, or herself as a girl? Does it change his/her interactions with people in any way? (It shouldn't...)

[silvadel]

Elminster would probably really want that new spell of V's.

V would really like to be as powerful as Elminster.

[the_tick_rules]

doesn't everyone want ultimate power?

[the mysterian]

God...moddder? Divine mud?

um it means horribly overpowered and can pretty much do anything.

[Elfanatic]

God...moddder? Divine mud?


um it means horribly overpowered and can pretty much do anything.

Ah, that makes much more sense.

[Forealms]

Since he mentioned doilies, wouldn't some delicious pie or turban cake be more appropiate? :smallsmile:

I would agree if I could make a cake or pie to save my life. Unless you would like to make one, I have no choice but to offer cookies :smallfrown:

[The honest illusionist]

God...moddder? Divine mud?

I think he meant godmoder. :smallwink:

I wouldn't think Vaarsuvuius's 'lust' for power makes he(r) intrinsically evil. V, to me, comes off more as a good leaning neutral than an evil character. (S)he doesn't specifically crusade against evil or further the goal of good.

In his(/her) speech, Vaarsuvuius mentioned her inability to save the solders-not kill the goblinoids. (S)he focuses more on saving lives than taking them away, despite the fact that (s)he would have likely done both. If Vaarsuvius were a half glass of water she would be half good.

[Kreistor]

On the contrary, V is intentionally androgynous because his/her gender really doesn't factor into things.

We don't know exactly why, and won't until V actually explains V's thoughts. It is possible that it involves a self-esteem issue, in the same way that some people wear dumpy clothing to hide other things they are embarrassed about.


V is happily married and totally devoted to his/her mate.

Yes, and married people never ever wear sexy clothing in public. No, wait, they do.


So, with that in mind, what's the significance of V identifying himself as a guy, or herself as a girl? Does it change his/her interactions with people in any way? (It shouldn't...)

On a professional level, we in our world feel it shouldn't. On a personal level, though, it most certainly does and will. I know there is a feeling in some people that it shouldn't, but it does, and will, because not everyone buys into the full equality thing when it comes to personal space and interaction issues. There is no personal space violations allowed of any type in the workplace, so that's not a factor there, but friends get close, and the limits are different. I'll dance with a female friend, but I won't dance with a male friend. I know there are some women that dance with female friends and male friends wihtout a sexual orientation attachment, but men dancing with male friends is rare without a sexual orientation being attached.

The point is that only in a professional environment is the equality ever going to be enforced and maintained. In personal environments, that does not exist and will never exist. The OotS is no longer a business (the contracts were destroyed), and has moved on to be an association of friends. Elan and Haley have shown that the environment is not professional-only, especially with personal matters encroaching on the group.

[The Kool]

I just read the Oracle bit again.

V's question: How will I finally achieve ultimate arcane power?
Answer: By saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for the wrong reasons.

Any theories on what, who, when, and why?

[Solo]

I just read the Oracle bit again.

V's question: How will I finally achieve ultimate arcane power?
Answer: By saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for the wrong reasons.

Any theories on what, who, when, and why?

Mr. Scruffy is obviously the right being.

[David Argall]

There are a huge number of theories, none particularly convincing, and their sheer number means that none have much above a 1% chance of being right.

[Grizzt]

V needs POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!! just for the FEELING OF POWER inside him/her(tho i believe V is a he)
and to be IMBA enought to PWN THE A$$E$ OFF EVERYONE ELSE ON THE WHOLE GODDAM CAMPAIGN SETTING!!!!!!!!

[WrstDmEvr]

For all we know, V got a sign early on in the adventure about some disaster that will befall V's hometown, and she is trying to gain UAP to avert that.

As a side note, what will happen when V does gain UAP?

[evileeyore]

Mr. Scruffy is obviously the right being.

Totally. Mr. Scruffy is probably the most powerful creature in existance.

[Spiky]

We don't know exactly why, and won't until V actually explains V's thoughts. It is possible that it involves a self-esteem issue, in the same way that some people wear dumpy clothing to hide other things they are embarrassed about.
But V has explained, and sihnfahl repeated it in that post. It makes no difference to any situation that has come up thus far in the comic. That is the answer.

EX: Many people point to the Incident as a point when it mattered. But the fact is it still didn't because the Incident was equally as disgusting to V no matter what gender either of them are.

Now, presumably it would be possible for a situation to arise where it does matter. And that is where the Giant steps in as author and makes sure it doesn't, for the benefit of nutso fans who want to fight over this. And the Giant has explained this part of it, too.

So proof is solid on both sides of the picture.


Yes, and married people never ever wear sexy clothing in public. No, wait, they do.

What relevance to a V discussion does this have?

[DrowWolfrider]

Well, if you think about it from the begining to now, V probably has some inferiority issues. This is exemplified by his rant in 504, if you need some clearing up of issues read previous posts, and also his conflict with Durkon in 505, when V says, "I do not allow my emotional state interfere with my-" obviously he was going to say work, but from his previous conversation with Durkon he did.

[Prince_Rohan]

.

Why wouldn't you want ultimate arcane power? I'd love some ultimate arcane power. Maybe I would make myself a sandwich. OUT OF NOTHING.

A most worthy cause. Only a true Master of the Arcane Mysteries of Time and Space can insure that the turkey is not dry!

But there's more. You could be your own Universal Remote - one that actually works on everything, not just 4 out of 5 components! I hate that. Never again would your coffee table look cluttered and forget having to keep batteries on hand. Thats Ultimate Power, baby!

.