Mounted Duskblade: Best Options?

[Fax Celestis]

A thought has struck me recently upon rereading the Knight Phantom (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) class and looking at the Duskblade: What about a mounted Duskblade?

Most mounted builds suffer from the problem of having a vulnerable mount--except for Supermount builds, but in their case they have an entirely different issue: their mount is stronger than they are.

Spellcasting, as is par for the course, solves the problem handily again: summoned mounts, or perhaps the phantom steed spell--which happens to be a prerequisite for Knight Phantom. Hey. That works out nice.

Now, the problem here is that the Duskblade doesn't have phantom steed on his spell list. How do I go about getting it?

Wizard 5 or Sorceror 6 would do it, I suppose, but that's a lot of levels right there, and I'd be awfully squishy going into the class. Wizard would do it sooner and have Int-synergy. I could also advance my Wizard casting with Knight Phantom, and totally forgo the Duskblade spells. So, Duskblade 3/Wizard 5.

What about Duskblade 3/Abjurer 3/Master Specialist (Abjurer) 2/Knight Phantom 7/Abjurant Champion 5? Issue I see there is that Abjuration are largely a defensive thing, and phantom steed is Conjuration.

Also a possibility--though a strange one--is to take Arcane Disciple, have a Wisdom of at least 13, and choose the Spider Domain. In the same vein, the Hin Wandermage (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Hin_Wandermage,all) accomplishes the same thing. Unfortunately, both mean that Knight Phantom will have to hold off until 10th, as a Duskblade doesn't get 3rd level spells until 9th.

Anyone have better ideas?

[deadseashoals]

I played a mounted duskblade in a dungeon hack. I took the Acquire Familiar and the Improved Familiar feats (Complete Warrior version), and got myself a Winter Wolf mount. It gains your BAB, the better of yours or its base saves, and a boatload of natural armor. I think it had something like 26 AC at level 7 with just some barding and no buff spells or magic gear. Plus, as a duskblade, you can cast spider climb on your mount! Wall walking fun!

It was pretty cool, and mildly effective.

[Person_Man]

If you specifically want entry into Knight Phantom, then Hin Wandermage is your best bet.

Another option is just to be a strait Duskblade and take the Leadership feat for a mount. Dragon Cohort also works.

Or you can take the Find Familiar and Improved Familiar feats. Ride your familiar. Share spells. If your mount is still squishy, be a Shield Dwarf in the Forgotten Realms. Take the Shield Dwarf Warder feat to add a bunch of defensive spells to your list.

But other then really interesting fluff in increased mobility (which really isn't a factor in most dungeons), I'm not sure why you'd want to be a mounted Duskblade. The primary reason to be a mounted build is Spirited Charge for the tasty *3 damage on a charge. But most Duskblade spells only offer extra dice of damage, which wouldn't be multiplied on a charge. This isn't a huge problem, since your damage output will already be huge. But there just isn't a lot of synergy.

[Neon Knight]

Off topic, but unintentional hilarity in the Knight Phantom class:


Becoming a knight phantom requires a great deal of arcane power, so the class is available only to 5th-level wizards, 6th-level sorcerers, and 7th-level bards. The latter two classes are relatively rare, because few characters expend a precious spells known slot on phantom steed -- the signature spell of the knight phantoms.

Because a 240 foot fly speed is completely undesirable.

Hexblades get Phantom Steed. Course, the first time they can get it is... Level 11. Probably a bit later than what you were looking for. That's actually somewhat of a pity, because otherwise the Hexblade seems like a decent fit for Knight Phantom.

[Fax Celestis]

If you specifically want entry into Knight Phantom, then Hin Wandermage is your best bet.

Another option is just to be a strait Duskblade and take the Leadership feat for a mount. Dragon Cohort also works.

Or you can take the Find Familiar and Improved Familiar feats. Ride your familiar. Share spells. If your mount is still squishy, be a Shield Dwarf in the Forgotten Realms. Take the Shield Dwarf Warder feat to add a bunch of defensive spells to your list.

But other then really interesting fluff in increased mobility (which really isn't a factor in most dungeons), I'm not sure why you'd want to be a mounted Duskblade. The primary reason to be a mounted build is Spirited Charge for the tasty *3 damage on a charge. But most Duskblade spells only offer extra dice of damage, which wouldn't be multiplied on a charge. This isn't a huge problem, since your damage output will already be huge. But there just isn't a lot of synergy.

I know there's not much in the way of synergy. It was mostly just the idea of mounted gish, really: great mental image, f'you ask me. That, and Arcane Channeled spells delivered at the end of 100'+ flying charges (and since they fly, they qualify for diving charges, for an extra multiplier) for that little bit of extra doom.

[deadseashoals]

Also, I might point out that the Phantom Steed isn't very durable. In our high level campaign, it was great for traveling when teleport wasn't an option for a limited amount of time, but we had to dismount in combat, or our steeds would get zapped by AoE or swatted by a single attack.

[Temp]

Just throwing another option out (even though most of the better ones have been taken): Summons work with the right sort of party.

As long as you can nab a Ring of Feather Fall and a +19 Ride check, you can use the party Druid/Malconvoker's monsters pretty effectively. You'll wind up incredibly party-dependant so you'll probably want a Cohort/Animal Cohort mount in reserve. You *can* get Summoning spells from a couple feats if you want a bit more self-sufficiency.

So... not good advice, but another option nonetheless.

[ZeroNumerous]

Hmm.. I seem to recall a Sorcerer bloodline feat that gave Phantom Steed somewhere..

Well, if you can find it, then my suggestion is this: Take Dragonblooded at 1st level(by being a Silverbrow Human or any race from Dragon Magic). You now qualify as a sorcerer of your level for Bloodline feats. Find that one that gives Phantom Steed. Enjoy.

Alternatively. Wizard 4/Duskblade 1/Ultimate Magus 7/Knight Phantom 8.

Learn Phantom Steed as a wizard. Use Expanded Spell Knowledge [3rd or lower] to gain Phantom Steed as a Duskblade spell. Advance through Knight Phantom as per normal.

But that would be a very roundabout way to get it.

Final Alternative:

Feat: Arcane Preparation. Mage of the Arcane Order.

[Kurald Galain]

Now, the problem here is that the Duskblade doesn't have phantom steed on his spell list. How do I go about getting it?

(1) the Extra Spell feat. This isn't actually allowed (by RAW, it only gives you a spell from your class list) but many DMs allow it anyway.

(2) the Arcane Disciple feat. You already said that.

(3) although it takes some levels, you can use Ultimate Magus to advance both wizard and duskblade levels simultaneously, to get Phantom Steed. Duskblade 3 / wizard 3 / UM 2 nets you a phantom steed AND the signature spell/attack combo.

(4) gestalt.

(5) there exist a bunch of feat lines (e.g. Fae Blood, Demon Blood, and Dragon Blood) that net you a bunch of spells at character level 6. You could houserule one of these to contain phantom steed.

[Overlard]

Well, if you can find it, then my suggestion is this: Take Dragonblooded at 1st level(by being a Silverbrow Human or any race from Dragon Magic). You now qualify as a sorcerer of your level for Bloodline feats.
You do? Where does it mention this?

[Fishy]

Also a possibility--though a strange one--is to take Arcane Disciple, have a Wisdom of at least 13, and choose the Spider Domain. In the same vein, the Hin Wandermage (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Hin_Wandermage,all) accomplishes the same thing. Unfortunately, both mean that Knight Phantom will have to hold off until 10th, as a Duskblade doesn't get 3rd level spells until 9th.

Once again, Arcane Disciple is basically the best friend of every Duskblade/Beguiller/Dread Necromancer ever. Yes, it's unfortunate to wait until 10th level to get your concept going, but don't Duskblades normally stay in the class until 13th to get Arcane Channelled Full Attacks? (Less of an issue if you're mounted, I suppose.)

[Kurobara]

You do? Where does it mention this?

If ZeroNumerous was actually referring to the feat Dragontouched (from Dragon Magic), it explicitly states so in the description of said feat.

Somehow I doubt that there'd be one with phantom steed, though. I'd have to look. (Best place to look for Draconic Heritage stuff is Races of the Dragon - lists the dragons from pretty much every book with dragons.)

[Draz74]

I vote for the Arcane Disciple option. 9th Level isn't too awfully late to get into a prestige class, especially from a decent base class like Duskblade. And I think it's classier.

[...Eh?]

I find it very interesting that shortly after making a mounted Duskblade for a PbP, I find this topic. <_<

Anyways, why not just get a normal mount, cast swift fly and swift expedious retreat (which are on the Duskblade's spell list) on it, and go into cavalier? It's not as good for spellcasting (which I suppose is better, in the long run) but it does give you a bit more of an edge in melee, and the speed isn't terrible.

[RTGoodman]

(1) the Extra Spell feat. This isn't actually allowed (by RAW, it only gives you a spell from your class list) but many DMs allow it anyway.

[Emphasis mine.] Not to derail the thread, but where does it say that in the description of the feat? As far as I can tell, it just says "You learn one additional spell...", stating nowhere that it has to be on the list. And it even says that a Wizard can use the feat to learn "a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research." Since a Wizard can access any spell from the list (besides those from barred schools), and can research any spell, wouldn't that mean that you can only use it to learn spells from another list?

Or does it correct that in the FAQ or errata? Because I didn't see it there either...

[Overlard]

If ZeroNumerous was actually referring to the feat Dragontouched (from Dragon Magic), it explicitly states so in the description of said feat.

Somehow I doubt that there'd be one with phantom steed, though. I'd have to look. (Best place to look for Draconic Heritage stuff is Races of the Dragon - lists the dragons from pretty much every book with dragons.)
Right, it's not an inherent thing of dragonblooded characters then, OK.

[Grynning]

"Swift" versions of spells are really not that useful for buffing a mount for combat, as they only last for one round. They are more intended as a last resort "get out of there quick" button.

[ZeroNumerous]

If ZeroNumerous was actually referring to the feat Dragontouched (from Dragon Magic), it explicitly states so in the description of said feat.

That was the feat I meant. Sorry for any confusion.

Still, Mage of the Arcane Order for 5 levels gets you what you want.

[Reinboom]

Or does it correct that in the FAQ or errata? Because I didn't see it there either...

The Sage ruled it that it only gives it from your list.
But the Sage isn't RAW. :smallwink:

So, Extra Spell at level 9, is probably the cheapest in.

Also, as Kurald said, you could ultimate magus... but that'd sort of defeat the point (of a gish). Use practiced spellcaster to make sure you get a wizard dominant, and you could do it rather quickly.

If you wish to keep a decent (3/4 BAB, d8 HD) meleer with something that gets phantom steed, the Death master from Dragon Magazine Compendium gets it as does the arcane savant from the same book.