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Sonofaspectre
2007-11-13, 03:19 AM
I have consistently had a problem with players in my games dumping Charisma. I normally would not care too much, but now I have DMed roughly 4 games with the same group of players, and every time it comes to creating characters, half of them consitently dump their lowest role into Charisma, unless they are building a Charisma-monkey specifically.

How did this happen? How did a roleplaying system that hasn't changed in the aspects of Character stats for the past 20 years suddenly turn into a roll-playing element that people don't care about? Why are there no more Charismatic leader Fighters, or very interesting story-telling Wizards, or Rangers just built to call on animals with skill beyond the norm? It is all about the damage you deal, the AC you gain, the Hitpoints you have, the Skills you receive, and the Will Save you have to have. And I am tired of it.

So, I bring to you Homebrewers the Complete Face :elan:! A book to promote this now almost defunct statistic in many of the players I know.

To do this, I have three new Base Classes, all Charisma dependent, and all very different from current Charisma-dependent classes. Here, I will put a short overview, and later I will post up the three new classes.

First, in the Divine corner, the Charlatan! A holy con-man, stealing his power from the Pantheons themselves, passing by to everyone as a true cleric, but in all honesty, merely a pawn to their powers.

Second, in the Arcane corner, the Gypsy. I have an ulterior motive here. I played 2nd edition Ravenloft, and the Gypsy class had so much flavor and fun that I became upset that this was not represented in the new rule sets. So here are Gypsies. The plan was to take three different archetypes of characters and have them all be Gypsies: The strong, silent, quarterstaff weilder; the double short-sword weilding, erratic and abrasive negotiator; the mystic old woman, guided by old teachings and old superstitions. Heh, Gypsies are great.

And Last, but not least, my personal favorite, the Zeppo. Ever wonder how the lackey or supporting lead in a tv show, movie, or book just disappeared then showed up out of nowhere to give the win? That is the power of the Zeppo, to be charismatic and still go unnoticed. A player wanted me to make a new Full BAB class for him, similar to Barbarian in power, as most everyone believes that Barbarian is one of the best made Base Classes. I believe I have done so with the Zeppo.

In the next few days, I'll be posting up these classes. I also plan on posting different things to help the book, including but not limited to:
- New Feats
- Alternate Charismatic Class Features
- 100 Face adventures
- Prestige Classes
- New Spells

It is going to be a ride!

Thanatos 51-50
2007-12-23, 03:09 PM
This looks like it'll be exciting to see!

Umarth
2007-12-24, 09:58 AM
I typically find that people put ability scores where they think they will get the most use.

If you make cha dependant abilities a more important part of your game then you'll find people putting stats thier more often. It's also important to stress when NPCs notice someones cha score. A few remarks about it and folks will be intrested in it again.

Valgunn
2007-12-25, 02:53 PM
I find it disparaging he said he would post these things in a few days, about three weeks ago.

Inyssius Tor
2007-12-26, 04:50 PM
Discouraging, unless you feel insulted by his regrettable delay.

I imagine he is trapped, to this very day, in the dysfunctional morass of the Charisma-Based Skills. Many have attempted to cleanse the twisted mire, yet none have returned.

We should put up a fence or something. Maybe post some signs.

Stycotl
2007-12-26, 08:39 PM
as a ravenloft fan, i am intrigued to see his take on the gypsie.

and don't get too discouraged/disparaged about his timeliness. you know how real life can get in the way of anything game-related.

aaron out

Sonofaspectre
2008-01-14, 04:06 PM
Introducing, the Charlatan

The party has finally come to rest in the dungeon, a fierce day behind them as the Kobold Cult of the Dragon-Lord forces them deeper to the worship furnace where they will be sacrificing the princess, unless the adventurers stop those Kobolds.

As the healer goes about his work, the paladin begins to fume. "There must be some way to do this easier and more civilized than just tearing through waves of fanatic Kobolds."

"Me like tearing through Kobolds," the Warforged barbarian reminds as he cleans his Great Axe.

At this, the healer turns to the party. "I feel I have not quite been honest. I can get us in tomorrow."

"How?! You are a follower of St. Cuthbert, they'll never believe you to be one of them. I don't care how good you are at persuasion."

"You are right, sir Paladin. I do worship St. Cuthbert ... today. But tomorrow, the power of Fire and the Dragon-Lord will be mine, and we will be in and out with the Princess in no time. Allow a simple con-man to do his thing. The God's will forgive me later."


http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs20/f/2007/231/e/e/Cleric_of_St_Cuthbert_by_nJoo.jpg

The Charlatan
{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Golden Tongue 1, Orison Mastery|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Domain Casting, Selective Domain 1|2|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|+1|+3|+1|+3||3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|+2|+4|+1|+4|Force of Personality 1|3|1|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|+2|+4|+1|+4|Selective Domain 2, Advanced Domains|4|2|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|+3|+5|+2|+5|Suggestion|5|3|1|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|+3|+5|+2|+5|Golden Tongue 2|5|4|2|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|+4|+6|+2|+6|Selective Domain 3|5|5|3|1|—|—|—|—|—

9th|+4|+6|+3|+6|Force of Personality 2|5|5|4|2|—|—|—|—|—

10th|+5|+7|+3|+7|Improved Advanced Domains|5|5|5|3|1|—|—|—|—

11th|+5|+7|+3|+7|Selective Domain 4|5|5|5|4|2|—|—|—|—

12th|+6/+1|+8|+4|+8|Force of Personality 3|5|5|5|5|3|1|—|—|—

13th|+6/+1|+8|+4|+8|Golden Tongue 3|5|5|5|5|4|2|—|—|—

14th|+7/+2|+9|+4|+9|Selective Domain 5|5|5|5|5|5|3|1|—|—

15th|+7/+2|+9|+5|+9|Greater Improved Advanced Domains|5|5|5|5|5|4|2|—|—

16th|+8/+3|+10|+5|+10|Force of Personality 4|5|5|5|5|5|5|3|1|—

17th|+8/+3|+10|+5|+10|Selective Domain 6|5|5|5|5|5|5|4|2|—

18th|+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Mass Suggestion|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|3|1

19th|+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Golden Tongue 4|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|4|2

20th|+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Selective Domain 7, Force of Personality 5|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|4

[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d6

Class Skills:
Bluff, Concentration, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, Heal, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Religion), Perform (oratory), Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) × 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Charlatan is proficient with all light armor and all simple weapons. If your campaign allows for pistols or other forms of firearms, then the Charlatan is also proficient with these, treating them as simple weapons.

Golden Tongue: Whenever a Charlatan uses a Charisma based skill, they get a +1 to their rolls. This bonus increases to +2 at level 7, +3 at level 13, and +4 at level 19.

Orison Mastery: At first level, a Charlatan may pick three 0-level spells from any spell list. The Charlatan may cast them a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier.

Domain casting: A Charlatan at second level may choose any one domain. He may cast a certain amount of spells per day, as according to their spell table. These spells are taken from the Domain spell lists the Charlatan has chosen for the day. See Selective Domain.

Selective Domain: The Charlatan has the ability to at second level, then every third level after that to choose a domain that they have mastered. Every morning after 8 hours of rest a Charlatan may switch what domain he knows for that day and each day after that until he choose to switch once more. The domain chosen gives the ability granted by that domain, as well as the spells he may cast. Unlike a Cleric, he may use his Domain spells as many times as he wishes spontaneously.

Force of Personality: The Charlatan's presence becomes so powerful that it becomes much more difficult for others to harm him. At fourth level the Charlatan gets a +1 to their AC as a shield bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at eighth level, twelfth level, sixteenth level, and twentieth level. This is a mind affecting supernatural ability, meaning it does not work on any opponents that are not affected by such abilities.

Advanced Domains: At level 5, A Charlatan may now choose 2 Domains each morning to cast from. They gain the abilities granted by both domains.

Suggestion: Works just as the bard ability of the same name.

Improved Advanced Domains:At level 10, the Charlatan may now choose 3 Domains each morning to cast from. They gain the abilities granted by all three domains.

Greater Improved Advanced Domains: At level 15, the Charlatan may choose 4 Domains each morning to cast from. They gain the abilities granted by all four domains.

Mass Suggestion: Works just as the bard ability of the same name.

JackMage666
2008-01-14, 04:37 PM
The only thing I see wrong with the Charlatan is that they gain the granted ability of the Domain, which might get them a bit overpowered (not in Core, but when you add in the massive number of Domains from Spell Compendium... Speaking of, what about Planar Domains?)

The skill points seem a bit high.. 15 class skills and 6+Int skills per level... Normally it would only by 4+Int, but if you're trying to make it a skill-monkey type, too, I suppose that would be alright.

Baron Corm
2008-01-14, 04:54 PM
I like it, except for the unfortunate 3rd level dead level. Perhaps give them fascinate, as the bard ability, especially considering they can't use their suggestion ability as it is currently worded.

Other wordings need a little help too. Domain Casting and Selective Domain can probably be put into the same ability. "he may use his Domain spells as many times as he wishes spontaneously" and "has the ability to choose a domain that they have mastered" are a little confusing as well.

The Charlatan can cast a number of spells per day as the table says, and his spells known are from a number of domains equal to his Selective Domain number, though he may only select a number of them to use as spells known per day as it says under Advanced Domain abilities, right? If right, that's not very clearly written, and if wrong, it's still not :smallsmile:.

EDIT: Ouch, just noticed he has 1/2 BAB too. Could probably kick that up to 3/4 with no problems. He doesn't get a very huge selection of spells, though it is better than paladin or ranger (potentially, depending on domains chosen), so 3/4 sounds about right.

Zeful
2008-01-14, 05:13 PM
Well the Charlatan seems good but there seems to be too much investment of skill ranks in perform for the suggestion abilities to be of much use. I'd recomend using the bards abilities as the base but reworking the conditions. Otherwise I like it.

loganic
2008-01-29, 07:49 AM
I think that a high skilled character for a charlatan sounds great but people end up being deterred if they can't contribute to combat as much as a 20th lvl wizard.

So I started thinking, what would a charlatan need for his skills?

Profession(oratory/con-man) might be a possibility, but I don't often see profession anymore.

Knowledge (religion) would be a maxed stat.
Spellcraft would be important too, in order to duplicate miracles.
Bluff obviously
Diplomacy a little shady. I typically get by on pure bluffing over dip
Concentration bleh, all casters max this one out

The rest are for flavor really per campaign basis. So this char is going to need Cha and Wis, with a little Int, but not enough to make it past 14 thanks to the 6 SP.
So A) I think 6 is fine. B) shifting domains is great, but not truly overpowered. It's one to three seperate spells per day. I've seen and studied the domains some for another character, and truly, they are not bugged beyond what a cleric would get. A normal cleric would get more spells per day since he can focus on a pure wisdom build if he's pure caster. Being forced to split the stats like that balances it some.

Conclusions
Ultimately, this still looks and plays a lot like a cleric and I think it's supposed to be. As such, it's next to impossible to move the stat focus from Wis to Cha, but Cha comes in a close second.

It seems to be playable regardless of whether the party will encounter many organized cults/religions. It will have it's chance in the spotlight to when that does come into play.

Ultimately, it has potential for roleplaying. I'm not sure how the specialization of this class balances with the rest of the party for roleplaying, but it still puts the onus on the player to push the GM for the opportunity to shine.