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daggaz
2007-11-24, 02:04 PM
Help! I want to make some better undead for a campaign im running, and I ran into problems. I started a thread over in the regular section, but it quickly became homebrewey.

As it stands, I want to make some beefy ogre undead. I was told to try to apply the Ogre as a Character to a normal ghast, for that. I ended up with the following, but it leaves a lot of questions as to CR etc, and I was wondering if it wasnt easier to just have a template to toss onto whatever you were animating?

Anyhow, here is my tentative Ogre Ghast:

Ogre Ghast
Size/Type: Large Undead
Hit Dice: 4d12 +3 (29 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (+2 Dex, +9 natural, -1 size), touch 12, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+14
Attack: Bite +10 melee (2d6+8 plus paralysis)
Full Attack: Bite +10 melee (2d6+8 plus paralysis) and 2 claws +8 melee (1d6+6 plus paralysis)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Ghoul fever, paralyis, stench
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., undead traits, +2 turn resistance
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +6
Abilities: Str 27, Dex 15, Con , Int 9, Wis 14, Cha 12
Skills: Balance +6, Climb +14, Hide +3, Jump +14, Move Silently +7, Spot +8
Feats: Multiattack, Toughness
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary, gang (2-4), or pack (2-4 plus 7-12 ghouls)
Challenge Rating:???
Treasure: None Standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 5-8 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment:??

Thoughts? Adjustments? I think this thing would destroy my level 5 party as it stands...They will all end up paralysed and dead.

CthulhuM
2007-11-24, 04:51 PM
Wizards actually came out with a ghoul template - "gravetouched ghoul" from Libris Mortis (why they called it that, instead of just "ghoulish creature" or something to that affect, I'll never understand). If you have access to the book, the best way to make an ogre ghoul is to just apply that template to your standard ogre. If done that way, you have yourself a typical CR 4. If you wanted to make a ghast, I'd say just step up its natural attacks one size, add +4 strength, +2 dex, +4 charisma and +2 natural armor and advance it 2 hit die. I'd say that would bring the CR 4 up to CR 6.

Oh, and as for your build of it - I'd say that's a solid CR 4. Maybe I'm just biased since I have a fairly high-power party in my campaign, but that thing really doesn't look all that frightening. Its AC and damage are ok, but it has crap for hit points. Unless it went first and managed to paralyze most of the party with a full attack in the first round, it would probably die in the second.

daggaz
2007-11-24, 06:13 PM
sorry i shoulda mentioned that i dont have libris mortis in the first thread.. (tho you have to wonder why else I would bother trying to figure out my own homebrew template =P )

Yeah, I know it has bunk for hps... but in a not entirely optimised 28 point party?

5th lvl Sword n Board dwarf cleric, ac 21, war + travel, 6 charisma
5th lvl Halfling Wizard, high dex + int, almost no hps but trying to be batman
5th lvl Human Rogue, archery + rapier, pretty standard but doesnt use tactics too well
5th lvl Druid, pretty good player, but petless atm..

I can easily see this thing owning my players, especially if it has a friend or two in the from of lower undead. +10 to hit and reach, its pretty much guaranteed to get a few good whacks in, and all it takes is one person going down to drastically change the odds. Im just worried. I was planning on pairing it up with a zombie ogre and a skeletal young black dragon.

Its supposed to be a hard fight, but one that is winnable provided they think. Also, it would be the only fight of that day. The wizard did blow four lvl 1 slots on IDing various and limited magic items. They dont have a whole lot of equipment that really stands out for this sort of thing. Two pearls of power +1, some magic +1 weapons, minor wonderous trinkets like a minor bag of tricks, that sort of 5th lvl stuff..

dfpiii
2007-11-25, 07:22 AM
I wouldn't be throwing that against your party as it stands (the party, that is). I think if you removed paralysis then you'd be good to go.

Or you could proceed with the number / type of creatures you'd planned for your encounter, but let the PCs get the drop on the undead. I think then you'd be fine too.

daggaz
2007-11-25, 08:30 AM
yeah, it is specifically the paralysis attack that has me worried. as it stands, the PC's will be holed up a small settlement, thinking they are resting for the night. The guard (who have constructed a crude palisade around the homes) will sound the alarm, but most of them, being just commoners, will be too afraid to go out and confront "whatever it is" that is approaching across the fields in the dark.

So the PC's will have some time for buffing and even tossing a bit of offense. I planned on the Ogres to show up first, and then while their hands were busy, for the skeletal dragon to make its appearance somewhere nearby, probably in the form of trying to tear into one of the lesser protected houses.

SoD
2007-11-25, 02:43 PM
There's a ghoul/ghast template in Savage Species. Can someone say if it's OGG and legal to throw up here?

Ecalsneerg
2007-11-25, 03:09 PM
There's a ghoul/ghast template in Savage Species. Can someone say if it's OGG and legal to throw up here?

It isn't OGC.

daggaz
2007-11-25, 04:50 PM
None of the premade templates besides skeleton/zombie/ghost/vampire/lich are OGL, which is why I am here trying to make my own, especially for undead types that are more in the middle. I dont have any books.