View Full Version : Choice of 1st level spells

2007-11-25, 03:41 AM
I need help deciding which one of these spells to pick or perhaps something completely different that I've not read about. I am playing a 3rd level wizard/3rd level rogue heading towards being an arcane trickster (my last character died and am creating this one from scratch). The two spells in question are
Snilloc's snowball orb of cold 1d6+1/lvl(max +5) either make a touch attack or throw snowball( I'm a halfling so do I get to add racial bonus +1 for thrown weapons) (120') once thrown new snowball appears in casters hand up to one snowball per level (max 5 orbs), does this mean I can throw up to 5 in one round or 1 every round up to 5 ?
lesser orb of acid 1d8 plus d8 every two caster levels after 1st range 25ft/+5 ft every two levels
just to let you know the other spells I have chosen (oh I should say that I have the practised spell caster feat ,lets you use character levels instead of just wizard levels (6th level caster instead of 3rd)
shield,mage armour,spider climb,jump,grease,charm person,expeditious retreat and identify
scorching ray or cloud of knives (I don't know which one or both and not take invis)
so can you help me choose ?

Tempest Fennac
2007-11-25, 03:50 AM
The lesser orb spells and the snowball storm spell seem weak. You may want to keep a Featherfall stored, but apart from that your choice seems okay (admittedly, I wouldn't bother with shield due to how it doesn't last anywhere near as long as Mage Armour, and Magic Missile isn't that much of a threat). It would be a good idea to take Invisibility in place of Cloud of Knives or Scorching Ray.

2007-11-25, 04:36 AM
You want orbs, and you want scorching ray. You've got a good list of utility spells going; a few blasty spells don't hurt. Sorching ray is by far the best damage spell at that level, and orbs are no save/no sr/work in an AMF.

Emperor Demonking
2007-11-25, 09:34 AM
As you've probably heard, don't be a blaster.

I'd probably choose the orb, as isn't that a definate damage.

2007-11-25, 09:44 AM
It means after you throw a snowball it is replaced by another up to the maximum. You can only throw the number of objects (snowballs or otherwise) you could normally throw. So at higher levels - when you'd never use this spell - I'd say you could throw more as per normal small missile weapons.

2007-11-25, 09:45 AM
My suggestion: Drop two levels of rogue and go with Wizard 4/Rogue 1/Unseen Seer 1 instead. You keep 5/6 casting but still have +2d6 Sneak Attack.

Note: With this build, you'll actually have 3rd level spells.

2007-11-25, 09:57 AM
with your 2 choices damage wise

1d6+5= min 6, average 8, max 11 x 5 =min 20, average 40 max 55

acid orb
3d8= min 3, average 12, max 24

so snowball looks like a good choice damage wise

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-11-25, 10:03 AM
go for the orb. no saveing throw or SR. but one your missing is a quent essentional silent image. My 12 level wizard still prepares 2 or 3 every morning.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-11-25, 10:17 AM
As has been said, definitly go with the orb of acid.

2007-11-25, 11:24 AM
I've never have never heard of unseen seer where can I look it up

2007-11-25, 11:29 AM
Complete Mage.

2007-11-25, 01:37 PM
Go the snowball! Why? Erm...

Well, uh, for a start, someones got to barrack for the underdog. Underdogs can find a soft spot to bite.

Secondly, throwing snowballs in battle! Brilliant! Take Tasha's Hideous Laughter when you can, so you can throw cream pies and snowballs!

2007-11-25, 01:53 PM
Personally, I'd actually go for the snowball.

The fact that you can add sneak attack to most of your attacks means that the fact that snowball lasts 3 rounds, it does an extra 6d6 damage (if you are sniping or flanking), which is far more than the Orb does.

Then again, if you don't do many fights per day, the Orb is quicker damage.

The Unseen Seer is a great plan, but I would also consider going Spellthief 1 (CArcane)/Wizard 4/Spellwarp Sniper 5 (CScoundrel)/Arcane Trickster 10. You end up with +8d6 sneak attack (well, 6d6 sneak attack, 2d6 sudden strike), and a ton of other useful abilities, as well as if you take Master Spellthief (CScoundrel), you don't lose a wizard caster level, you can wear light armor and not get spell failure chance, and can steal spells with your rays.

Personally, if I were ever to play a non-beguiler arcane tricky character, that ^ would definately be my plan.

2007-11-25, 07:28 PM
Remember, everyone, if he's going into Arcane Trickster, ranged touch damage spells work very well for him. I would go with the Snowball, since throwing multiple balls per round will add up to a heck of a lot of sneak attack damage. Plus, the image of a halfling throwing around snowballs in a serious combat is just too good to pass up.

Keld Denar
2007-11-26, 11:26 AM
It would be my interpretation that the snowballs can be thrown at a rate no higher than your iterative attacks, baring special circumstances. This would bring the spell inline with the mechanics of Chill Touch, another multiple use on attack spell. Therefore, at wiz3/rogue3, the character would have a BAB of +3, not high enough for his 1st iterative attack. At around wiz3/rog3/at4, the character would have a BAB of +6, granting 2 attack on a full attack throw (one at +6, one at +1). The character COULD take the Rapid Shot feat, which functions with thrown weapons, to make an extra throw in a round and incuring a -2 on all attack rolls for the round. This probably wouldn't be a very effective path though. The problem with multiclassing with non-full BAB classes is your BAB tends to really suffer at mid levels, making touch attacks rather difficult, even though the target AC tends to be lower.

Just my thoughts on things.

2007-11-26, 11:50 AM
Cloud of knives man, you get a decent hit chance, and after the first round it's a free attack, stuff the daft snowballs too slow, though funny, just take a utility spell that isn't on the beguiler or cleric lists.
why don't you spend a bit more cash on second level spells and have all 3?

Oh and he can't go for one level of unseen seer because his evil and draconian fiend of a GM insists that folk finish one prestige class before they embark upon another, so stop teasing the poor bloke with your prestige dips.

2007-11-26, 11:56 AM
Screw them both, and go for power word pain. Races of Dragons. Check it out, it's a great spell for someone who wants to take a cheap shot, and then hide. It'll average 10d6 damage over 10 rounds as a first level spell, no save. Although the damage is low, you just hit them once, they don't realize how much you just hurt them right away, so they ignore you, then you hang back and buff your allies.

2007-11-26, 12:02 PM
Oh and he can't go for one level of unseen seer because his evil and draconian fiend of a GM insists that folk finish one prestige class before they embark upon another, so stop teasing the poor bloke with your prestige dips.

I think the idea was actually for him to keep taking Unseen Seer all the way through. It's just that at his current level (ECL 6), he'd only be able to fit 1 Unseen Seer level in until he levels up more.

EDIT: Then he can eventually go Arcane Trickster for levels 16-20.

2007-11-27, 07:13 AM
Its off the subject a littel but I need to ask where do I find practised spell caster? and whats is needed to get it? ta.

Keld Denar
2007-11-27, 07:42 AM
Practiced Spellcaster is in Complete Divine (and maybe Complete Arcane too?). The only requirement is that you have the ability to cast spells of the type that you are taking PS for. So a 1st level Rogue could not take PS, because he doesn't cast spells. A Rog2/Wiz1 could take PS for wizard spells as his 3rd level feat. A Wiz2/Clr1 could take PS for either wizard, or cleric spells, but not both at once (that would require taking PS a 2nd time).

2007-11-27, 07:53 AM
Ah right, thank you very much lussmanj:smallwink:

2007-11-27, 08:48 AM
I'd like to point out that Practiced Spellcaster only lets you add a maximum of 4 to your caster level (so, a rog5/wiz2 with PS would have a CL of 2+4=6, not 7 as implied in top post), and that it doesn't affect actual spell slots, spells known or anything like that, just the caster level.