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View Full Version : Tomb of Horrors: What does it take?



BardicDuelist
2007-11-25, 11:14 PM
What group of 6 level 9 characters can successfully complete ToH? Excluding Pun-Pun, nanobites, and other infinite loop cheese, but allowing most other.

My guess: Wizard, Archivist, Factotum, Artificer, Cleric, Druid, although I have no idea on the builds that would work.

String
2007-11-25, 11:17 PM
After reading through it, I think that a monk might make it through.
Now, said monk might be screwed when it comes to the tough battles, but With his Godly saves and penchant for survival and little else, it seems that a group with 1 or 2 of them would do well, if you threw in a high-powered rogue for the disable and trapfinding etc, and a Barbarian for strength checks.

Citizen Joe
2007-11-26, 12:09 AM
I'm not entirely sure there is anything in there worth entering it for.

Crow
2007-11-26, 12:14 AM
I'm not entirely sure there is anything in there worth entering it for.

That's what I thought too.

Mike_Lemmer
2007-11-26, 12:15 AM
Yeah, what is worth all that trouble in the Tomb? I've never heard about what treasure anyone's ever found in there.

Blasterfire
2007-11-26, 12:18 AM
Most of the characters I make would do it for the glory. Then again, my characters would probably do _anything_ if enough glory were involved. Its like delicious pie to them.

TheLogman
2007-11-26, 12:19 AM
WARNING!!! This post contains intimate knowledge on the weaknesses of the Tomb, if you plan on ever playing it fairly, DO NOT READ THIS, especially not the Wizard part.


2 Druids, who Buff and spend all remaining spell slots on summoning stuff to set off traps/Check hallways. 2 Rogues who have maxed out Disable Device, Spot, and Search. 1 Wizard/or possibly Psion who uses Knock, Mage Hand, Passwall, Break Enchantment (Or their psionic equivalents), and anything else that allows him to set off/avoid traps, and save cursed party members. In the last leg of the Tomb, before the final battle, they prepare Bear's Endurance (To increase the chance of survival from the Soul-sucking), and the few offensive spells that can kill the Final Construct. Alternatively, depending on the OOC knowledge, you could just use Command: Forget, and bypass the entire final fight. Finally, get a Cleric. He will do healing, buffing, save people from curses, and turn the few undead and such that ARE in that place.

Talic
2007-11-26, 02:24 AM
CoDzilla x 6 ???

Swordguy
2007-11-26, 02:31 AM
Any given six characters played by smart and paranoid players should be able to make it through the ToH, as long as they don't have major gaps in their group (no divine casters at all, nobody at all able to deal with traps, etc). It's not a test of your characters. It's a test of your players.

If the players are not at the top of their game, paranoid as all get out, and aware that ToH was the game that STARTED a bunch of D&D adventuring cliches, the characters will die.

reorith
2007-11-26, 02:39 AM
my group made it through with a rogue8 paladin7/fighter2 ranger9 and hexblade7/psion2 with out much trouble. then again we were railroaded into the toh. oh well.

CatCameBack
2007-11-26, 03:01 AM
Back In The Day (tm) I made it through on my second character (no priest in the party).

My 13th level Rogue (they was called "Thief" at the time) got halfway through in a party with a 12th level Wizard(Magic User) and a 11th level Fighter(still called a fighter).

We lost my Rogue and the Wizard on the same trap about 50% of the way through, and I rolled back in with another character I had played (11th level Wizard) and finished up the module.

And, yes, for those of you wondering: the end of the module involved a lot of running and a teleport spell or two.:eek:

A well supplied group of 9th level characters, run by canny and EXPERIENCED players can get through on one group (probably with a few breaks for rezzes). :smallbiggrin:

Dhavaer
2007-11-26, 03:15 AM
A Hexblade/Monk would be favourite. Cha to saves, Mettle and Evasion.

Xefas
2007-11-26, 03:26 AM
A better question would be, what group of 6 characters could effectively make it through the Tomb of Horrors without their players having prior knowledge and THEN survive the Return to the Tomb of Horrors, only afterwards realizing that in doing so, their characters are then reduced to 1st level and forced to trod through the World's Largest Dungeon whose entrance is conveniently placed at the end of the Return to the Tomb of Horrors adventure.

I would be inclined to 4 druids, a wizard, and an artificer, myself.

Hyozo
2007-11-26, 09:19 AM
All I know about the Tomb of horrors is that the character who has heard of it has to fail an int check to even considder going in, there are tons of traps, demons live there, and it is ruled by Acerack (Misspelled?). Knowing what I do, I would suggest as many rogues as you can get, clerics (would luck domain help?), and at least one batman caster (the Fatespinner PrC might help as well).

Green Bean
2007-11-26, 09:25 AM
All I know about the Tomb of horrors is that the character who has heard of it has to fail an int check to even considder going in, there are tons of traps, demons live there, and it is ruled by Acerack (Misspelled?). Knowing what I do, I would suggest as many rogues as you can get, clerics (would luck domain help?), and at least one batman caster (the Fatespinner PrC might help as well).

I vote for a level 21 wizard. Take off and Hell Ball it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Citizen Joe
2007-11-26, 09:28 AM
One of my old GM's would just keep ToH at his side and if we acted up too much in his game he'd pick it up and brandish it.

puppyavenger
2007-11-26, 09:30 AM
no you just need major creation and eschew materials, use antimatter.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-11-26, 09:50 AM
I vote for a level 21 wizard. Take off and Hell Ball it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Let me remind you that there is a substantial dollar value attached to this tomb.

Mr. Friendly
2007-11-26, 10:10 AM
The only group that can "win" the Tomb of Horrors would be the following:

Expert9 (Chef): Skill Focus Cooking, Magic Items related to cooking.
Expert9 (Clothier): Skill Focus Craft, magic items related to making T-Shirts ("I visited the Tomb of Horrors and all I got was all my gear stolen, my arse beat and this lousy t-shirt", etc.)
Expert9 (bartender): Skill Focus brewing, items related to brewing and bartending
Fighter4/Monk5 (bouncer): Obvious
Fighter4/Monk5 (bouncer): Obvious
Bard9 (Musician): Leadership for a full band.
Aristocrat9 (owner): Leadership, provides seed money
Healer9: Charges 10x normal prices
Wizard9: Charges 10x normal prices

Ok, now the plan is a bit tricky, but here it goes:


Go to the Tomb of Horrors after hiring hundreds of laborers.
Build a combination Inn/Gift Shop/Tourist Trap.
Inflate the prices to the point of ridiculousness.
Have a single character designated as the cashier who has max ranks in Diplomacy and Sense Motive to shut down any diplomancers who try to haggle prices lower.


If Acerak starts any static, just offer to cut him in on the profits and promise not to reveal any secrets of the Tomb.

Green Bean
2007-11-26, 10:44 AM
Let me remind you that there is a substantial dollar value attached to this tomb.

They can bill me.

((aaaaaaand....scene! :smalltongue:))

SoD
2007-11-26, 11:13 AM
Is there anywhere online that I'd be able to have a look over it? Or would I have to buy it?

Everyone talks about it, I've heard about it, know it's full of traps, but have never laid eyes on it.

Green Bean
2007-11-26, 11:16 AM
Is there anywhere online that I'd be able to have a look over it? Or would I have to buy it?

Everyone talks about it, I've heard about it, know it's full of traps, but have never laid eyes on it.

For your viewing pleasure. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20051031a) Enjoy!

SoD
2007-11-26, 11:21 AM
Yay! Now I can finally see what all the fus is about. I must use this on my mates when I get back to Australia...

SpikeFightwicky
2007-11-26, 11:52 AM
They can bill me.

((aaaaaaand....scene! :smalltongue:))

:smallbiggrin: Classic!!!

I'm going to have to take a look at this thing. My group can't handle Scourge of the Howling Horde. I'd like to see them go through the 'legendary tomb'.

SoD
2007-11-26, 11:55 AM
Scourge of the Howling Horde...is that the one with the goblins and Noak?

SpikeFightwicky
2007-11-26, 12:46 PM
Can't remember who Noak is, but it definately has alot of goblins, and
By the end of the adventure, the PCs can make their way to the dragon that's in cahoots with the goblin leader. A simple but neat adventure.

Ferreon
2007-11-26, 06:30 PM
In the case of the party I run for, I'd have been heading for my third set of party members if it hadn't been for Aslan, the beast wars transformer paladin (with mildly broken template on the Dire Lion Form). before you ask, he was effectively a warforged with a shapechange effect, which didn't heal him...yup, the dm didn't think about what he was doing


Seriously, 4 times lay on hands is a pretty funky ability, even if he had to be in lion form to use it the 4th time


That said it took them 9 in game days to reach the

fake lich, and then run away after the roof falling in illusion

TheLogman
2007-11-26, 06:53 PM
Also: True Seeing is amazing within the Tomb. Get your Wizard to cast it on at least himself if not the rest of the party constantly, so that you always have it on. There are Illusions and Invisible stuff galore in that place.

Angel in Black
2007-11-26, 08:19 PM
Wow is that mean. Just downright cruel and dark-hearted, just... mean. What kind of sadistic DM would run this monstrosity? Then again, if you keep yourself 100% lucid the whole way through, they telegraph most of the traps, so it's definitely possible. Hmmm...

TheLogman
2007-11-26, 08:23 PM
Heh, I'm actually planning to run this in the next week or so. I did, however, warn my players that this would be dangerous, that people would die, to have spare characters, and even recommended what classes to bring (Rogues, Wizard/Psion, Cleric, essentially what I posted a bit above.)

Angel in Black
2007-11-26, 08:26 PM
Heh, I'm actually planning to run this in the next week or so. I did, however, warn my players that this would be dangerous, that people would die, to have spare characters, and even recommended what classes to bring (Rogues, Wizard/Psion, Cleric, essentially what I posted a bit above.)

You know, an Elocator would rip apart about half of this place. Scorn Earth is awesome.

bugsysservant
2007-11-26, 08:46 PM
I've never played it, but after reading it over... Damn. But I would go for CoDzillas+batmen with maybe a trap specialized rogue. If nothing else, the druids can take the Exalted Wildshape feat and get the hell out of there with at will dim door. With that monstrosity, survival is victory.

kemmotar
2007-11-26, 08:47 PM
Or you can just bring a lot of vampire troll puppies in a portable hole...throw them in the tomb and let them scurry around...they are immune to illusions and will trigger every single trap in the dungeon, regenerate and keep going...

Maybe you can get troll puppies and add the spellstiched template instead of vampire...or zombie troll puppies...Don't ask me where you can find troll puppies...i don't know either...but i like the idea...

Well if you're paranoid enough to go in ToH then be paranoid enough to bring lots of trap springers:smallwink:

EDIT: is the return to the tomb of horrors just the tomb of horrors updated to 3.5 from 2e or is it a new adventure? Maybe a second reputed tomb of acererack?

HidaTsuzua
2007-11-26, 10:27 PM
I had a fairly effective group for a Tomb of Horrors adventure. They got about half-way before ending and we never could get everyone back together. After that, we plotted how the adventure would have likely played out.

The key is a good rogue with insane search/disable device. That'll cut out a ton of traps right there. The fights aren't that bad honestly so being half-way decent overall in combat will get past that part. The tough stuff is the non-traps or rogue doesn't look or rolls a 1 traps that basically just outright kill someone. Some stuff remains "you die" or "take 200 damage on a save" no matter what you do, so death will happen without luck/metagame knowledge.

For example:

With the proper DR bypassing weapon, the demilich can get nailed real easily. And don't touch the evil gem of wishes.

SurlySeraph
2007-11-26, 11:04 PM
Or you can just bring a lot of vampire troll puppies in a portable hole...throw them in the tomb and let them scurry around...they are immune to illusions and will trigger every single trap in the dungeon, regenerate and keep going...

Maybe you can get troll puppies and add the spellstiched template instead of vampire...or zombie troll puppies...Don't ask me where you can find troll puppies...i don't know either...but i like the idea...

REGENERATION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!

You have to have a CON score to have regeneration. Undead don't have a CON score. Done.


Well if you're paranoid enough to go in ToH then be paranoid enough to bring lots of trap springers:smallwink:

Ayup.


EDIT: is the return to the tomb of horrors just the tomb of horrors updated to 3.5 from 2e or is it a new adventure? Maybe a second reputed tomb of acererack?

It's new.

Kompera
2007-11-26, 11:06 PM
I was a member of the blind tournament at a GenCon or Origins or something when ToH was first released. We all died horribly.

Edit: I might not be using the correct terminology. By 'blind' I mean that all the players in the tourny were run against the ToH using the same set of pre-made characters. Points were awarded for how far you got or specific encounters/traps/etc beaten. Highest point total and your team 'won' the tourny.

I asked around a bit and wasn't able to find anyone who said that anyone in their group had survived, but that doesn't mean that no one did.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-11-26, 11:28 PM
Whats the Return to the Tomb of Horrors about?

And how WOULD you run it? Make reasurreaction available pretty much when they need it and so on...I mean for a very...inexperienced party here..

Blasterfire
2007-11-27, 12:19 AM
Im running it with a group of about 6 experienced people making good characters and Im planning on handing out free rezzes and the like. Probably going to judge success based on how many rezzes the party uses XD

kemmotar
2007-11-27, 12:58 PM
REGENERATION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!

You have to have a CON score to have regeneration. Undead don't have a CON score. Done.

Ok then...just plain troll puppies then...
Also...from what i saw by skimming the ToH book...it's not meant for anyone to survive...i mean there was a trap that had ridiculous damage...the cursed wish gem or something...200 damage and 70 on a successful reflex save(23)...the ones that do make the save don't even have 70 hp...then the trap that separates the players from their equipment...and even the fact that it's filled with secret doors...if you fail a search check once, you're sure there is no secret door and you can't retry...thus you just go back and leave the tomb...It's not meant to be played by anything less than a fully optimized member of each class...I'd love to play it but then the whole party will be screaming at me after the 5th TPK...and they'd be right...If anyone is going to play it he needs to cut down on the save vs death that are strewn about the dungeon...and there's lots of them...

Citizen Joe
2007-11-27, 01:23 PM
I think a neat way to deal with it would be to 'damage' the tomb in some way. When the demons show up to 'fix' it, use soultrap or something to force the demon to reveal all the traps it knows about.

Project_Mayhem
2007-11-27, 02:33 PM
I think a neat way to deal with it would be to 'damage' the tomb in some way. When the demons show up to 'fix' it, use soultrap or something to force the demon to reveal all the traps it knows about.

Ahh, thinking outside the box :smallbiggrin:


then the trap that separates the players from their equipment

I'd forgotten that. Absolutely hilarious idea that, especially if for some reason you were taking an existing party through it. I can imagine the batman's face - WHAT!??!!?! MY [insert cheesey item combos], MY SCROLLS AND MY#&%$@ SPELLBOOK??!

Laurellien
2007-11-27, 02:46 PM
That trap specifically separates living matter from non-living. What happens to bones? Last I checked, Calcium Phosphate isn't living matter.

HidaTsuzua
2007-11-27, 03:35 PM
That trap specifically separates living matter from non-living. What happens to bones? Last I checked, Calcium Phosphate isn't living matter.

Yeah, but bone has a fair amount of cells in/around it. I think it's reasonable for it to "pass" in much the same way hair, fingernails, teeth, gallstones, scales, shells, and all that other fun stuff will make it (since that stuff is dead or mineral).

That said, the tomb of horrors is tough. Heck:

The "first" room is a dead end with a 20d6 rocks fall trap. At 9th level, that's going to kill the vast majority of characters. And that's a fake entrance!

To be fair, the Tomb of Horrors was the cause of my D&D pantheon, the Sir Goodsalot pantheon. :smallbiggrin:

Fixer
2007-11-27, 03:45 PM
I just realized I've played through that dungeon without knowing it. :O

Of course, I came in halfway through the adventure as was 'found' by the party and freed (I was in a temporal stasis) but I recall that steamroller statue and the columns and the final construct vividly. I was found in the room with the three vats, one of which had a key in it.

For the record, all but one of our characters survived (he got soultrapped at the end and died) and we were 7th level. We 'defeated' the construct at the end of the dungeon by putting it into a bag of holding. We dealt with it later. :)

Citizen Joe
2007-11-27, 04:05 PM
One thing to note regarding to the layout. There are several stairways leading down and a couple twisty passages. While the map is laid out on a convenient 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper, don't feel confined to that. The lower levels may be as much as 100 feet below the entrance and the twistiness of the tunnels could mean that the lower levels are potentially anywhere. Thus no 'I randomly dig at this location' to bypass certain parts of the tomb. On the other hand, a druid with commune with nature could get a good idea of the layout.

The item separation trap may also backfire on a GM. A known item would get sent right to the end, bypassing everything. The mage could then lock in on it and simply transport there with a teleport. In fact, a clever mage might already be doing that, collecting the spoils of all the adventurers that go in after that. I could even see said mage selling maps with some of the traps up to that point. When the group leaves through the item separation trap, the mage just travels to his beacon to collect his winnings.

Citizen Joe
2007-11-27, 04:06 PM
edit: oops doubleposted

Frosty
2007-11-27, 04:33 PM
What level is this dungeon designed for? would 4 level 20 adventurers have trouble?

Citizen Joe
2007-11-27, 04:37 PM
What level is this dungeon designed for? would 4 level 20 adventurers have trouble?

4-6 level 9

But I wouldn't call it 'designed for' its all a bunch of death traps. You either randomly get the right combination or you die.

TheLogman
2007-11-27, 05:47 PM
4 level 20's would not have trouble at all because:

At that level, you can find the traps with Search easily, disable them with no problem, have Arcane Sight or True Seeing permanencied, and can insta-destroy and monsters you see. Heck, with 1 level 20 rogue you could do it with little or no trouble, that is, IF you have enough OOC knowledge, and are reasonably prepared.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-27, 05:54 PM
I find it interesting that about half of the combinations use much higher than level 9 characters. I know the Tomb can be easily beaten if you are a higher level, but what I am surprised at is that it seems that the Tomb was DESIGNED for a higher level (about 12ish) instead of 9 (which is a bit of a difference), but they still recomend level 9. I don't know about previous editions (which used the same flavor but a different rule set) as I have very little experience with those.