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Signmaker
2007-11-26, 03:12 PM
The layout:

Human Fighter2/Monk8

Str:18
Dex:13
Con:11
Int:11
Wis:18
Cha:10

Feats already picked: Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Weapon Focus, Combat Brute

Feat Slots Open: 3

I'd prefer if the stats remained this way, but alternative arrangements may be considered.

Obviously, I'm planning a build involving using unarmed strikes to sunder various objects. Not exactly battle-worthy, but fun fluff-wise (Smashing blocks of ice, and whatnot).

I have an issue that's presenting difficulty, however.

My monk's not doing all that much damage.

Assuming that SunderMonk is wearing a Monk's Belt, he's doing 2d6+4 damage, not including any other potential damage increasers (Power Attack). That isn't all that much damage at all.

If possible, I'd like to hear some suggestions that'll help increase average sunder damage. I'm shooting for around 20, as that'll cover most weapons and objects I'm expecting to karate chop.

So, if you will, suggest away! (Please?)

Indon
2007-11-26, 03:15 PM
I would try to find a magical enchantment which allows you to use your unarmed damage with a weapon, then get a quarterstaff for that so that you can 2-handed Power Attack.

Nermy
2007-11-26, 03:19 PM
Eagle Claw Attack from Complete Warrior lets you add your wisdom damage when you attack objects with an unarmed strike, so that's +4 damage. It's not much, but it's something.

Mr. Friendly
2007-11-26, 03:20 PM
To not radically change your build that much, change Fighter to Psychic Warrior. You are losing a BAB, but you are gaining an infinite amount of awesomeness by adding this feat:


FOCUSED SUNDER [PSIONIC]
You can sense the stress points on othersí weapons.
Prerequisite: Str 13, Power Attack, Improved Sunder.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus.
When you strike at an opponentís weapon, you ignore half of the weaponís total hardness (round down). Total hardness includes any magical or psionic enhancements possessed by the weapon that increase its hardness.
Special: You can also sense the stress points in any hard construction, such as wooden doors or stone walls, and can ignore half of the objectís total hardness (round down) when attacking that object.

Signmaker
2007-11-26, 03:36 PM
To not radically change your build that much, change Fighter to Psychic Warrior. You are losing a BAB, but you are gaining an infinite amount of awesomeness by adding this feat:



I'm not quite sure about that idea, mainly due to the fact that changing the BAB would result in Power Attack and Improved Sunder being displaced, which would not only limit my effective feat choices, but also disrupt my later feat choices.

Ne0
2007-11-26, 03:54 PM
Does your DM allow the Improved Natural attack feat? That's a nice boost to damage...

cupkeyk
2007-11-26, 04:02 PM
If you can get some turning ability to improve the number of times per day you can do it, Strength Devotion nets you adamantine natural weapons and a slam attack.

Signmaker
2007-11-26, 04:06 PM
On average, not as much as Eagle's Claw would.

To simplify things, I'll make a feat chart.

Feat Numbers are at level (3 is third level, etc.)

Human Feat:
1.

Level Feats:
1.Power Attack
3.
6.
9.Combat Brute

Fighter Feats:
1.Improved Sunder
2.Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)

Monk Feats:
3.Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
4.Deflect Arrows
8.Improved Trip

As one can see, the open feat slots are mostly at low levels.

Question: Can you sunder on a charge? If so, Flying Kick might be a nice investment.

cupkeyk
2007-11-26, 04:12 PM
You might want to use the Sleeping Tiger variant (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#fighting-styles) from UA to free up some feat slots.

Signmaker
2007-11-26, 04:18 PM
You might want to use the Sleeping Tiger variant (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#fighting-styles) from UA to free up some feat slots.

That would result in me only having one feat dedicated to an Improved-Sunder Prereq feat, which is currently being used by Combat Brute. To get Eagle Claw attack, I need Improved Sunder and Improved Unarmed Strike to be at decently low levels.

I found a feat in DR called Deadly Concussion, which has a pretty effect that basically does damage to the opponent if you one-shot sunder their item. However, it requires 6 ranks in Perform(Percussion), meaning I'd need to take Able Learner to qualify. I can take this as my 3rd level feat slot, which would basically leave the 6th level feat slot open. So, feats aside, are there any other resources that would aid the sundering effort?

cupkeyk
2007-11-26, 04:23 PM
Able learner is only available at level one. Unless you were referring to deadly percussion. You are still better off with Strength devotion, as adamantine ignores 20 points of hardness, even if you get to use it only once per day initially. It's in complete champion.

Indon
2007-11-26, 04:28 PM
However, it requires 6 ranks in Perform(Percussion), meaning I'd need to take Able Learner to qualify.

As noted, you can only take this feat at level 1. Take it as you free human feat.

Signmaker
2007-11-26, 04:29 PM
Able learner is only available at level one. Unless you were referring to deadly percussion. You are still better off with Strength devotion, as adamantine ignores 20 points of hardness, even if you get to use it only once per day initially. It's in complete champion.


Human feat slot is open, which would be filled by Able Learner.

Also, I don't have Complete Champion. Could I get a snippet?

Xefas
2007-11-26, 04:31 PM
If your 6th level slot is open, perhaps you could take Martial Study to get Mountain Hammer: a maneuver that ignores the hardness of items entirely and deals a bonus 2d6 damage.

Since you'd be level 6, your initiator level would be 3, so I think you'd be able to pick up a second level maneuver since it has no specific prerequisites.

Though, obviously, it might just be better to take levels in Swordsage instead of monk...

Signmaker
2007-11-26, 04:32 PM
I'm keen on SunderMonk.

"Why do we need the monk levels at all?"
"Quiet! The Monk is integral to the plot!"
"Yeah, whatever"

Chronos
2007-11-26, 04:35 PM
However, it requires 6 ranks in Perform(Percussion), meaning I'd need to take Able Learner to qualify.Monks get Perform as a class skill, and as long as a skill is a class skill for at least one of your classes, you can max it out. You're allowed to spend more than one skill point on a skill at each level, so long as you keep it under the max. So if you have at least 12 Int, you can just dump all 6 of your skill points at level 3 (Monk 1) into Perform, and with a lower Int, you can still hit 6 ranks at level 4.

For ignoring hardness, remember that monks eventually (at level 16) get to treat their unarmed strike as adamantium. This is probably higher level than you're interested in, but there might be some ki-enhancing feats or items which let you get this ability earlier.

Signmaker
2007-11-26, 04:38 PM
Monks get Perform as a class skill, and as long as a skill is a class skill for at least one of your classes, you can max it out. You're allowed to spend more than one skill point on a skill at each level, so long as you keep it under the max. So if you have at least 12 Int, you can just dump all 6 of your skill points at level 3 (Monk 1) into Perform, and with a lower Int, you can still hit 6 ranks at level 4.

For ignoring hardness, remember that monks eventually (at level 16) get to treat their unarmed strike as adamantium. This is probably higher level than you're interested in, but there might be some ki-enhancing feats or items which let you get this ability earlier.

Huh, totally glazed over that skill. Thanks!
And at current progression, SunderMonk would get AddyStrike at 18th level, which is kinda too far away for a 10th level build. It's one of those "I wish I wish" dreams.

cupkeyk
2007-11-26, 04:40 PM
pm'ed it. Check your messages.

Ne0
2007-11-26, 04:46 PM
For ignoring hardness, remember that monks eventually (at level 16) get to treat their unarmed strike as adamantium.

Yes, but only for the purpose of ignoring DR, I believe.

Indon
2007-11-26, 04:51 PM
Yes, but only for the purpose of ignoring DR, I believe.

Adamantium explicitly ignores material hardness less than itself. That's how you get the hardness-bypassing ability.

Signmaker
2007-11-26, 04:52 PM
"At 16th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness (see Smashing an Object, page 165)"

So yeah, that's an option at... 18th level. :smallfrown:

Chronos
2007-11-26, 08:57 PM
Yeah, I know that 18th level is too high. I was just thinking that maybe there's an item or ability or something that lets you treat your monk level as 4 higher for purposes of determining your Ki Strike, or something like that. I don't know of any such item myself, but it seems like the sort of thing that would exist in some splatbook or other, so I thought I'd mention the possibility.

the_tick_rules
2007-11-26, 11:14 PM
i've seen levels higher for unarmed damage, but never that.

herrhauptmann
2007-11-27, 03:08 AM
There's ascetic rogue which stacks rogue sneak attacks with monk damage. So I'm sure something stacks monk with fighter.

Have you looked at Leap Attack (ComWar)? Need 8 ranks in jump and power attack.
If you can make a 10foot jump as part of your charge (plus ignoring difficult terrain) you can take power attack and deal 2pts for every 1 penalty with a 1handed weapon. Or 3pts for every 1penalty with a 2hander or 1hander wielded w/2 hands. I think a quarterstaff would fit quite well with that. Leap attack will also help you set up one of your combat maneuvers for Combat brute. Specifically the one that requires you to charge in the first round and power attack in the second at a 1for2 or 1for3 bonus.

If you have a weapon, put the 'shatter' enchantment on it (+1 cost), like in the shatterspike (DMG), and if possible, make the weapon adamantium.

As far as opening up later feats, does it really matter what order you take levels in besides the first? I mean, if your first level is going to be monk, and you want 8monk 2ftr, why not make levels 9 and 10 ftr?