Mr.Moron
2007-11-29, 03:07 PM
Warning: This is just an idea, I'm not even sure it's a good one. I'm just presenting it in case it isn't an insane concept.
This idea came to me in the middle of reading "Spiked Chain" thread #god-knows-what. What if there was a weapon standard? Not only to compare and adjust existing weapons but to refer to when making new ones. To have a system that says "This is too Good" "This isn't good enough" "This is about right" with at least some level of objectivity.
I thought it was a rather neat idea and spent some time (probably too much), trying to come up with a system that effectively fits the majority of existing weapons. Obviously a few would fall under the standard, a few would fall above it.
After chewing on it a while, I can up with an example of what this kind of system might look like. So far it only works for non-double non-projectile weapons. With some time, It would probably be possible to include those. However, I think I'll put this idea out there and see if anyone likes the concept before dedicating more time to refining it.
Basics:
All weapons are rated against a point system. Extra Damage, Special Features and Throwing Range all have set point values. Different families of weapons (Simple, Martial, Exotic) are rated for different total points.
These are the point values by weapon family.
Point Value by Weapon Family
Simple Weapons: 4 Points
Martial Weapons: 6 Points
Exotic Weapons: ? Points
Weapon Damage has different point value, depending on the size of the weapon. The progressions are as follows:
Light Weapon Progression
1d2: -1 Point
1d3: 0 Points
1d4: 2 Points
1d6: 4 Points
1d8: 6 Points
2d4: 8 Points
One-Handed Weapon Progression
1d3: -1 Point
1d4: 0 Points
1d6: 2 Points
1d8: 4 Points
1d10:6 Points
1d12:8 Points
Two-Handed Weapon Progression
1d6: -1 Points
1d8: 0 Points
2d4: 2 Points
1d10:3 Points
2d6: 5 Points
2d8: 7 Points
Special Abilities have static point values, regardless of weapon size.
Ability Values
Odd/Very Minor abilities can have a value of 0.
For example:
A dagger's slight of hand effect is 0.
Weapon finesse with a drawback (rapier) is 0 points.
1-Point Adjustments
Disarm Bonus: 1 Point per +2 Bonus. (Maximum: 4)
Range: Each 10ft Increment of Throwing Range is 1 point.
Anti-Charge: Being able to ready a weapon against a charge is 1 point.
Reach: Standard Reach that prevents attacking adjacent opponents is 1 point.
Mount Support: Being able to wield a weapon with less effort when mounted is 1 point.
Free: A weapon with no listed cost loses 1 point.
Monk Weapon: Being a "Monk Weapon" costs 1 point.
2-Point Adjustments
x3 Critical Modifier /x3 Critical is worth 2 points.
19-20 Threat Range 19-20 Threat ranges are worth 2 points.
Situational Power If it's beneficial (Lance x2 on mounted charge) it costs 2 points. If it's harmful (Whip doesn't harm armored) it gives two points.
Tripping Be able to use a weapon to trip is 2 points
Two Damage Types Dealing two damage types ("Piercing AND Slashing") is worth 2 points.
Weapon Finesse Weapon finesse no drawbacks is 2 points.
Non-Lethal Dealing non lethal damage costs 2 points.
Long Reach Reach of 15 ft rather than 10ft is worth 2 points.
3-Point Adjustments
Disarm Immunity: Immunity to disarm costs 3 points.
Adjacent Reach Hitting adjacent opponents with a reach weapon (normal or long) is worth 3 points.
4-Point Adjustments
18-20 Threat Range Threat Ranges of 18-20 are worth 4 points.
x4 Critical Damage /x4 Critical is worth 4 points.
Examples of Examining a Weapon's Point value.
Longsword: Marital Weapon (6 Points)
Damage 1d8 : 4 Points(1-Handed Weapon)
19-20 Threat: 2 Points
Total: 4 + 2 = 6
Spiked Chain: Exotic Weapon (8 Points)
Damage 2d4: 2 Points (Two-Handed Weapon)
Reach: 1 Point
Adjacent Reach: 3 Points
Tripping Weapon: 1 Point
+2 on Disarm: 1 Point
No-Drawback Weapon Finesse: 2
Total: 2 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 10
Long Spear: Simple Weapon (4 Points)
1d8 Damage: 0 Points (Two-Handed Weapon)
Reach: 1 Point
x3 Critical: 2 Points
Ready Against Charge: 1 Point
Total: 1 + 1 + 2 = 4
Weapons the System Fails to Fit
Morning Star (6/4 Points)
Greatclub: (4/6 Points)
Heavy Flail: (7/6 Points)
Greatsword: (7/6 Points)
Halberd; (7/6 Points)
Dagger : (5/4 Points)
Sickle: (5/4 Points)
Axe, Throwing:(5/6 Points)
Hammer Light: (4/6 Points)
Which is more than I think should fail, for an ideal system. Exotic Weapons are another story. As I said, this whole thing started randomly in the middle reading a "Spiked Chain" story.
Thoughts on exotic weapons:
No matter how hard I tried (and I tried more than is sensible). I couldn't get a system to fit them, and the rest of the weapon universe. This really just screams something everyone already knows exotic weapons are far from equal. The monk weapons all fall in at 6 points. The One-Handed Weapons at 8, the Spiked chain at 10. If exotic weapons were made to fall in-line with each other.
6 Point exotic weapons would be no different than Marital weapons. That would be silly.
An 8-point Kama & and 8-Point spiked chain might look like this.
{table=head]Name|Damage(Small)|Damage(Medium)|Critical|Range Increment|Damage Type(s)|Special
Kama(Light)|1d4|1d6|19-20/x2|-|Slashing|Monk Weapon, Tripping Weapon
Spiked Chain(two-handed)|1d6|1d8|x2|-|Piercing|Reach,Adj-Reach,+2 Disarm, Trip, Weapon Finesse
[/table]
On the other hand, a 10-point kama and a 10-Point Bastard Sword might look like this:
{table=head]Name|Damage(Small)|Damage(Medium)|Critical|Range Increment|Damage Type(s)|Special
Kama(Light)|1d6|1d8|19-20/x2|-|Slashing|Monk Weapon, Tripping Weapon
Bastard Sword|1d8|1d10|19-20/x2|-|Slashing|*new special*
[/table]
*random idea*: This weapon receives 1 1/2 times your strength bonus even when being wielded in 1 hand. It still counts as a 1-handed weapon for disarm, power attack and other special abilities or attacks.
[/table]
Of course, there is a pretty good chance this whole idea is fairly silly. If it a worthwhile Idea, the numbers still need tweaking and ranged/double weapons should be worked in.
This idea came to me in the middle of reading "Spiked Chain" thread #god-knows-what. What if there was a weapon standard? Not only to compare and adjust existing weapons but to refer to when making new ones. To have a system that says "This is too Good" "This isn't good enough" "This is about right" with at least some level of objectivity.
I thought it was a rather neat idea and spent some time (probably too much), trying to come up with a system that effectively fits the majority of existing weapons. Obviously a few would fall under the standard, a few would fall above it.
After chewing on it a while, I can up with an example of what this kind of system might look like. So far it only works for non-double non-projectile weapons. With some time, It would probably be possible to include those. However, I think I'll put this idea out there and see if anyone likes the concept before dedicating more time to refining it.
Basics:
All weapons are rated against a point system. Extra Damage, Special Features and Throwing Range all have set point values. Different families of weapons (Simple, Martial, Exotic) are rated for different total points.
These are the point values by weapon family.
Point Value by Weapon Family
Simple Weapons: 4 Points
Martial Weapons: 6 Points
Exotic Weapons: ? Points
Weapon Damage has different point value, depending on the size of the weapon. The progressions are as follows:
Light Weapon Progression
1d2: -1 Point
1d3: 0 Points
1d4: 2 Points
1d6: 4 Points
1d8: 6 Points
2d4: 8 Points
One-Handed Weapon Progression
1d3: -1 Point
1d4: 0 Points
1d6: 2 Points
1d8: 4 Points
1d10:6 Points
1d12:8 Points
Two-Handed Weapon Progression
1d6: -1 Points
1d8: 0 Points
2d4: 2 Points
1d10:3 Points
2d6: 5 Points
2d8: 7 Points
Special Abilities have static point values, regardless of weapon size.
Ability Values
Odd/Very Minor abilities can have a value of 0.
For example:
A dagger's slight of hand effect is 0.
Weapon finesse with a drawback (rapier) is 0 points.
1-Point Adjustments
Disarm Bonus: 1 Point per +2 Bonus. (Maximum: 4)
Range: Each 10ft Increment of Throwing Range is 1 point.
Anti-Charge: Being able to ready a weapon against a charge is 1 point.
Reach: Standard Reach that prevents attacking adjacent opponents is 1 point.
Mount Support: Being able to wield a weapon with less effort when mounted is 1 point.
Free: A weapon with no listed cost loses 1 point.
Monk Weapon: Being a "Monk Weapon" costs 1 point.
2-Point Adjustments
x3 Critical Modifier /x3 Critical is worth 2 points.
19-20 Threat Range 19-20 Threat ranges are worth 2 points.
Situational Power If it's beneficial (Lance x2 on mounted charge) it costs 2 points. If it's harmful (Whip doesn't harm armored) it gives two points.
Tripping Be able to use a weapon to trip is 2 points
Two Damage Types Dealing two damage types ("Piercing AND Slashing") is worth 2 points.
Weapon Finesse Weapon finesse no drawbacks is 2 points.
Non-Lethal Dealing non lethal damage costs 2 points.
Long Reach Reach of 15 ft rather than 10ft is worth 2 points.
3-Point Adjustments
Disarm Immunity: Immunity to disarm costs 3 points.
Adjacent Reach Hitting adjacent opponents with a reach weapon (normal or long) is worth 3 points.
4-Point Adjustments
18-20 Threat Range Threat Ranges of 18-20 are worth 4 points.
x4 Critical Damage /x4 Critical is worth 4 points.
Examples of Examining a Weapon's Point value.
Longsword: Marital Weapon (6 Points)
Damage 1d8 : 4 Points(1-Handed Weapon)
19-20 Threat: 2 Points
Total: 4 + 2 = 6
Spiked Chain: Exotic Weapon (8 Points)
Damage 2d4: 2 Points (Two-Handed Weapon)
Reach: 1 Point
Adjacent Reach: 3 Points
Tripping Weapon: 1 Point
+2 on Disarm: 1 Point
No-Drawback Weapon Finesse: 2
Total: 2 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 10
Long Spear: Simple Weapon (4 Points)
1d8 Damage: 0 Points (Two-Handed Weapon)
Reach: 1 Point
x3 Critical: 2 Points
Ready Against Charge: 1 Point
Total: 1 + 1 + 2 = 4
Weapons the System Fails to Fit
Morning Star (6/4 Points)
Greatclub: (4/6 Points)
Heavy Flail: (7/6 Points)
Greatsword: (7/6 Points)
Halberd; (7/6 Points)
Dagger : (5/4 Points)
Sickle: (5/4 Points)
Axe, Throwing:(5/6 Points)
Hammer Light: (4/6 Points)
Which is more than I think should fail, for an ideal system. Exotic Weapons are another story. As I said, this whole thing started randomly in the middle reading a "Spiked Chain" story.
Thoughts on exotic weapons:
No matter how hard I tried (and I tried more than is sensible). I couldn't get a system to fit them, and the rest of the weapon universe. This really just screams something everyone already knows exotic weapons are far from equal. The monk weapons all fall in at 6 points. The One-Handed Weapons at 8, the Spiked chain at 10. If exotic weapons were made to fall in-line with each other.
6 Point exotic weapons would be no different than Marital weapons. That would be silly.
An 8-point Kama & and 8-Point spiked chain might look like this.
{table=head]Name|Damage(Small)|Damage(Medium)|Critical|Range Increment|Damage Type(s)|Special
Kama(Light)|1d4|1d6|19-20/x2|-|Slashing|Monk Weapon, Tripping Weapon
Spiked Chain(two-handed)|1d6|1d8|x2|-|Piercing|Reach,Adj-Reach,+2 Disarm, Trip, Weapon Finesse
[/table]
On the other hand, a 10-point kama and a 10-Point Bastard Sword might look like this:
{table=head]Name|Damage(Small)|Damage(Medium)|Critical|Range Increment|Damage Type(s)|Special
Kama(Light)|1d6|1d8|19-20/x2|-|Slashing|Monk Weapon, Tripping Weapon
Bastard Sword|1d8|1d10|19-20/x2|-|Slashing|*new special*
[/table]
*random idea*: This weapon receives 1 1/2 times your strength bonus even when being wielded in 1 hand. It still counts as a 1-handed weapon for disarm, power attack and other special abilities or attacks.
[/table]
Of course, there is a pretty good chance this whole idea is fairly silly. If it a worthwhile Idea, the numbers still need tweaking and ranged/double weapons should be worked in.