The Invincible Iron Man

[Charles Phipps]

I really enjoyed the Iron Man annual and am pleased to see that Tony Stark has lasted as Director of Shield far longer than he lasted as Secretary of Defense for the United States. Plus, it was a nice idea to show how Tony Stark views the idea of "regime change."

I've been very pleased with the properties about Iron Man lately. His appearance in Ultimate Avengers, his animated movie, and his own series have all been extremely well done.

I also liked what I've seen so far of the movie.

[lord_khaine]

what i mostly liked of the latest Iron man material was the comic where Thor hand him his own backside after he tried to make him register.

[Charles Phipps]

what i mostly liked of the latest Iron man material was the comic where Thor hand him his own backside after he tried to make him register.

While duly needed, it was rather cheap.

Really, Thor can beat up Iron Man.

Big surprise there.

[Stam]

I think the best part of that issue was how Tony Stark actually thought he would be the one wiping the floor with Thor:

"Fine. I'll apologize later."

But really, his new armor seems to stand a lot to be desired. I mean...Spider-man kicked his butt, strung him up, and ripped his helmet clear off in the space of ten seconds.

[....]

But really, his new armor seems to stand a lot to be desired. I mean...Spider-man kicked his butt, strung him up, and ripped his helmet clear off in the space of ten seconds.

Spider-man has more combat experience than Iron Man.

Plus he's got the whole angsty 'I-blame-Stark-for-my-beloved-aunt's-wounds' thing going on.

[Dalenthas]

Both the Thor fight and the Spider-Man fight were written by the same author. Now, do you really think it was them beating IM, or JMS just getting off on putting Tony down? Especially since the Spider-Man fight had Tony acting like a rank amature instead of the veteran genius that he is. Seriously, he has two repulsors for a reason.

[T.Titan]

I'm sorry, but IM even troubling Thor without at least a Hulkbuster armor on is ridiculous (Thor has Hulk lvl strength) and the Spidey fight was in close quarters and Parker's no slouch anyhow (but IM actually has a chance against him, unlike vs Thor). And repulsors?! Against the spider sense? Sure....

[Charles Phipps]

I'm sorry, but IM even troubling Thor without at least a Hulkbuster armor on is ridiculous (Thor has Hulk lvl strength) and the Spidey fight was in close quarters and Parker's no slouch anyhow (but IM actually has a chance against him, unlike vs Thor). And repulsors?! Against the spider sense? Sure....

I view a Spiderman vs. Iron Man fight as boiling down to this. Spiderman may never get hit by Tony but can't do any damage to him. Unfortunately, Tony only has to hit once.

It reminds me of a Doctor Doom vs. Spiderman fight from way back when. Doctor Doom just brought down the building on Peter.

[Selrahc]

I'm sorry, but IM even troubling Thor without at least a Hulkbuster armor on is ridiculous (Thor has Hulk lvl strength) and the Spidey fight was in close quarters and Parker's no slouch anyhow (but IM actually has a chance against him, unlike vs Thor). And repulsors?! Against the spider sense? Sure....

Thor absolutely destroyed Iron Man in that fight. Thats a result thats fairly incongrous with what would normally happen... if it wasn't something that had been in demand by readers.

Iron Man is a hugely powerful hero, and for decades in the avengers served as their secondary heavy hitter. He has flight and mobility on a levle with Thors. He has tactics and experience on a level with Thors. He has a strength and toughness level that doesn't quite equal Thors, but is damn close. He has incredible enrgy blast powers, and all sorts of high tech gadgets increasing his combat prowess. Hes even got his own Spider sense, teleporter and invisibility! Underneath the armour, he has a healing factor, and can control all nearby machines with cybernetic telepathy.

Under reasonable circumstances, an Iron Man/Thor fight should be a drawn out, close run affair, with the God of Thunder edging out ahead. In the Thor comic, it was a steamrollering. This is because of the power of plot in superhero comics. I have seen Iron Man fight an enraged Thor before, in much less advanced armour, and give a much better account of himself.

Not that it wasn't an entertaining comic. It gave a conclusion to a personal showdown that had been brewing since robo-thor, but it isn't an indicator of how Iron Man/Thor fights are likely to go. Especially since it relied on that most unreasonable of attacks... the EMP. Which apparently work or fail based on the whim of the author in question.

[Hawriel]

Thor is a Norse god. Tony Stark in no way would ever have equal experince in warfair with him. Iron Man energy weapons are not equal to Thor, the god of thunder and lighting. At best Stark would only delay the beating Thor would dish out on him.

[Charles Phipps]

Thor is a Norse god. Tony Stark in no way would ever have equal experince in warfair with him. Iron Man energy weapons are not equal to Thor, the god of thunder and lighting. At best Stark would only delay the beating Thor would dish out on him.

It's a long standing point of Marvel. Black Bolt, Thor, Hulk, and Thanos are all pretty much able to own everyone else.

[Green Bean]

It's a long standing point of Marvel. Black Bolt, Thor, Hulk, and Thanos are all pretty much able to own everyone else.

Also, Squirrel Girl. :smallbiggrin:

[turkishproverb]

Under reasonable circumstances, an Iron Man/Thor fight should be a drawn out, close run affair, with the God of Thunder edging out ahead. In the Thor comic, it was a steamrollering. This is because of the power of plot in superhero comics. I have seen Iron Man fight an enraged Thor before, in much less advanced armour, and give a much better account of himself.

Not that it wasn't an entertaining comic. It gave a conclusion to a personal showdown that had been brewing since robo-thor, but it isn't an indicator of how Iron Man/Thor fights are likely to go. Especially since it relied on that most unreasonable of attacks... the EMP. Which apparently work or fail based on the whim of the author in question.

Dude, I hate to point this out to you, but Thor's gotten a fair share of Beef ups since the silver age. Hence the term ODIN FORCE.

[Selrahc]

Thor is a Norse god. Tony Stark in no way would ever have equal experince in warfair with him.


This isn't warfare. Its superhero fights. The two skills aren't very similar.


Iron Man energy weapons are not equal to Thor, the god of thunder and lighting. At best Stark would only delay the beating Thor would dish out on him.

Well they certainly are far more powerful than thunder and lightning. And since thats Thors main energy projection, it kind of does seem like Iron Man is around the same level as him.


At best Stark would only delay the beating Thor would dish out on him.

Well yeah. I pretty much said that. My point was that he should be able to delay it for more than the microsecond that he did in the Thor comics.



It's a long standing point of Marvel. Black Bolt, Thor, Hulk, and Thanos are all pretty much able to own everyone else.

Not reallllly.... I mean Thor gets his ass handed to him in the avengers every few issues. Pre World War Hulk also wasn't all that uber.

Thanos and Black Bolt would own Iron Man, and own him hard. But they'd do the same to Hulk or Thor.



Dude, I hate to point this out to you, but Thor's gotten a fair share of Beef ups since the silver age. Hence the term ODIN FORCE.

He didn't lose that? I thought that the Odin Force made him well nigh omnipotent (And so he could just find all the other gods that he is searching for with a click of his fingers)

[GoC]

Spider-man has more combat experience than Iron Man.:smallfurious:
I REALLY hate it when people say things like that. Experience is useful and all but CANNOT make up for a large disparity in power if your oponent is also fairly experienced.

A reasonably experienced player in Halo 2 can take down even the best if he's got that extra shield thingy. An expert at Supreme Commander would lose against a player with a month of play under his belt if he got tripple the resources.

And Batman CANNOT beat Wonderwomen, Flash or the Green Lantern (or Superman unless he uses kryptonite) even if the Flash just recently got brainwashed and lost all his experience.

I agree with Ironman losing to Thor but Spiderman...?:smallconfused:
Tony outclasses Spiderman in everything except maybe agility (he's even got Spidersense).

[turkishproverb]

He didn't lose that? I thought that the Odin Force made him well nigh omnipotent (And so he could just find all the other gods that he is searching for with a click of his fingers)

Not necessarily. Even Gods have to follow their own mythic rules. That's mroe likely to be the reason he has to search out the other's.

And that is hardly the only beef thor's ever gotten.

[Hopeless]

Extremely minor point but whilst Iron Man probably has the upper hand in a fight with Spiderman, please remember that those upgrades came from analysing Peter's abilities using that armour he built for him something Peter would have checked himself especially as he has his own problems with say Venom for example.
If it was an Iron Man vs Spiderman where Spidey hasn't prepared himself then yes its very unlikely he would win BUT if Spidey loses his cool it really makes no difference how tough Iron Man's armour is, Spidey is going to be ripping it apart THAT is what happens when a berserk spiderman cuts loose with his spider sense unhindered.
But if prepared then Peter WILL own Iron Man, no matter how smart Stark is he's facing someone who's routinely had to fight vastly powerful enemies with abilities he has to think his way past exactly how long would Iron Man last against say Electro or the Sinister Six for example?
But the plot point is well received, but noone has a more powerful plot power than Squirrel Girl!
Even Doom isn't a match for a Squirrel!

[Grod_The_Giant]

He didn't lose that? I thought that the Odin Force made him well nigh omnipotent (And so he could just find all the other gods that he is searching for with a click of his fingers)

Omnipotent. All-powerful. All-knowing is different (omniscient). Though I think he got that as well, with the whole trading his eyes to drink from the well of wisdom thing...
But I am with you on that one point: how the hell didn't he loose the odin force? He was already quite probably the strongest marvel super-hero. He already fought gods. Now what can he fight?

[ALOR]

It reminds me of a Doctor Doom vs. Spiderman fight from way back when. Doctor Doom just brought down the building on Peter.


Props for remembering this fight. One of my favorite comics ever. :smallbiggrin:

[Dalenthas]

How long would IM last against Electro? A better question is how long would Electro last against Iron Man! If you keep in mind that the armor absorbs electricity (at least it used to, that feature hasn't been used in a long while), Electro is basically worthless against Tony. Hell, even if you ignore that, the armor would provide nearly perfect protection from the electric blasts. Meanwhile, one repulsor shot puts Dillon out of the fight.
The entirety of the Sinister Six might take an issue or so for IM to whip, but it's a matter of time.
How long would Spider-Man last against the Mandarin? Or Fin Fang Foom?

[Selrahc]

How long would IM last against Electro? A better question is how long would Electro last against Iron Man! If you keep in mind that the armor absorbs electricity (at least it used to, that feature hasn't been used in a long while), Electro is basically worthless against Tony. Hell, even if you ignore that, the armor would provide nearly perfect protection from the electric blasts. Meanwhile, one repulsor shot puts Dillon out of the fight.
The entirety of the Sinister Six might take an issue or so for IM to whip, but it's a matter of time.
How long would Spider-Man last against the Mandarin? Or Fin Fang Foom?

Truth. Spideys villains are small fry compared to Iron Man. In fact if I'm not remembering wrong, Iron Man took down Electro with ease back in an early issue of New Avengers.

And Spideys superstrength is not enough to casually rip apart Iron Mans armour. Even if he got really realy angry. Iron Mans armour is tough stuff, and people bigger and stronger than the Spider have failed to rip it apart.

[GoC]

If it was an Iron Man vs Spiderman where Spidey hasn't prepared himself then yes its very unlikely he would win BUT if Spidey loses his cool it really makes no difference how tough Iron Man's armour is, Spidey is going to be ripping it apart THAT is what happens when a berserk spiderman cuts loose with his spider sense unhindered.

Since when can Spiderman rip apart materials stronger than Titanium?:smallconfused:
If he can do this then he would have easily won in the Batman vs. Spiderman thread. Just grapple and rip.

EDIT: If you insist on giving spiderman the power of World War Hulk then I see no point in further discussion with you.

[Jerthanis]

Since when can Spiderman rip apart materials stronger than Titanium?:smallconfused:
If he can do this then he would have easily won in the Batman vs. Spiderman thread. Just grapple and rip.

EDIT: If you insist on giving spiderman the power of World War Hulk then I see no point in further discussion with you.

Spider-man's strength is now Spider-God granted, if he was to give himself over to the spider, Tony'd be lucky to escape unscathed.

But yeah, it's a tough sell to say Spidey has more than a bare chance against the Man of Iron. If Ironman's armor were to be hijacked by a villain, it'd be Shield's highest level global emergency. Spider-man is on the run from the law and it's almost like there aren't even wanted posters at the local Post Office.

[T.Titan]

He has incredible enrgy blast powers, and all sorts of high tech gadgets increasing his combat prowess. Hes even got his own Spider sense, teleporter and invisibility! Underneath the armour, he has a healing factor, and can control all nearby machines with cybernetic telepathy.

I'm sorry but in the better superhero vs superhero fights them deux ex machinas aren't used... otherwise Thor could have just used Mjolnir to alter the past or some other silly silver age power: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mjolnir_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Uses




Not reallllly.... I mean Thor gets his ass handed to him in the avengers every few issues. Pre World War Hulk also wasn't all that uber.


Errr....
http://www.hulkmovie.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=422&d=1046205322

And he played with pwning planets before too:
http://www.hulkmovie.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=2119&d=1060664867
http://www.hulkmovie.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=2120&d=1060664965



An expert at Supreme Commander would lose against a player with a month of play under his belt if he got tripple the resources.

But in Starcraft he wouldn't... :smalltongue:


Especially since it relied on that most unreasonable of attacks... the EMP. Which apparently work or fail based on the whim of the author in question.

EMP?! No, sorry, getting hit by lightning doesn't count as EMP... that's why Tony had to chuck the armour after the fight and didn't just reboot it like from an EMP. I think is was something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning#Positive_lightning

[GoC]

But in Starcraft he wouldn't... :smalltongue:

I hereby challenge you to a Starcraft battle.
I've only had the game for 3 days and still haven't finished the terran campaign let alone played against other players so I'm the very definition of noob.
The catch is that I start out with all the tech, 1000 minerals and two bases.

Find someone who can beat me with that setup.

[Charles Phipps]

Well, Iron Man has his ass kicked most handily by Thor recently. Thors power level has also fluctuated a lot over the years. However, most sources generally agree that Iron Man is a tier below Tony.

I also point out that lightning isn't Thor's preferred weapon. Thor prefers using his fists.

From Marvel's own description, Thor is 100 class strength which is Hulk/Juggernaut/Hercules while Iron Man is 70 class.

[kpenguin]

However, most sources generally agree that Iron Man is a tier below Tony.


Interesting. So you say that Stark is of a higher tier without the suit than with it?:smalltongue:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Every one of Tony Stark's fingers is a middle finger. That is all.

[....]

Thor is a god.

Tony Stark is a man. A man with a cool robotic suit, but a man nonetheless.

Hmmm

[W Herzog Zwei]

Thor is a god, and the fact that JMS is writing him as such now. Thor even touched this bit in the comic - he doesn't play by the rules of superhero fights anymore, he's a god and wins in godly ways. Until some other writer returns Thor to the realm of regular superheroics, he's likely in a class only lesser to the highest level Cosmic entities now.

[kpenguin]

Well, I wouldn't say the highest level cosmic. I mean, cosmic characters in general tend to be very powerful. I think SS edges out Thor a little bit.

[W Herzog Zwei]

I was just pulling the ranking out of my hat - there hasn't been too much mixing of the dieties with the Cosmic big guns in Marvel. Outside of superhero-mode Thor and Hercules, naturally. One place I can think of was the Infinity Gauntlet where Thanos rather cut off the link of the gathering of gods (Norse, American, Greek, Russian, maybe others) by shattering bifrost rather than fighting them. So even there we didn't see full-scale gods vs. cosmic beings.

Celestials (mid-level Cosmic) have been showed to be able to wipe the floor with dieties, haven't they - so at least them, and thus the Eternity/Living Tribunal (high Cosmic) level guys should be stronger than at least layman-gods (meaning not the heads of their pantheons)? Or have I imagined that.

Anyway, I most wholeheartedly agree that Surfer and Galactus level guys are above regular superhero-Thor. But now, the question of "how strong is JMS allowed to write god-Thor?" is in the air. And likely will not be answered, as I suspect that the next writer will conviniently forget how strong JMS will write Thor.

[beholder]

I hereby challenge you to a Starcraft battle.
I've only had the game for 3 days and still haven't finished the terran campaign let alone played against other players so I'm the very definition of noob.
The catch is that I start out with all the tech, 1000 minerals and two bases.

Find someone who can beat me with that setup.

maybe with all the tech you'd stand a chance against a starcraft vet, but id call it a very slim chance if you are truly as noobish as you claim you are :smallcool:

[GoC]

maybe with all the tech you'd stand a chance against a starcraft vet, but id call it a very slim chance if you are truly as noobish as you claim you are :smallcool:

I doubt anyone can withstand the "Battlecruiser rush" while they're still playing with marines.:smallbiggrin:
Know any Starcraft vets?

[T.Titan]

I hereby challenge you to a Starcraft battle.
I've only had the game for 3 days and still haven't finished the terran campaign let alone played against other players so I'm the very definition of noob.
The catch is that I start out with all the tech, 1000 minerals and two bases.

Find someone who can beat me with that setup.

If you play like the AI then anyone that's ever finished Brood War... :smalltongue:


I doubt anyone can withstand the "Battlecruiser rush" while they're still playing with marines.

BC's require Gas... by the time you get enough the other player should be way past marines... lets not even mention how taking out the right building in a rush will slow you down even more.

Of course you're experience with other RTS' would also matter.

Sure there's a point where experience doesn't matter, but IM isn't that far above Spidey... who made Titania afraid of him once, and she's almost Hulk lvl.



Anyway, I most wholeheartedly agree that Surfer and Galactus level guys are above regular superhero-Thor.

I don't know... Thor did crack a Celestial once from what i read. And Galactus does have bouts of weakness when not properly fed. But i think Galactus should be nigh invincible when at full power.

Thor did fight SS, and SS apparently said Thor was a bit better:

http://www.superherostuff.com/Biographies/Silver_Surfer4.gif

Of course as SS's powers depend on how much Power Cosmic Big G lets him have he might be weaker when not serving as a Herald.


Oh, and look at the second one: http://members.tripod.com/~jshayer/comics/thor_blt.htm

[GoC]

If you play like the AI then anyone that's ever finished Brood War... :smalltongue:
Nah.
I'd just rush you immediatly.:smalltongue:


BC's require Gas... by the time you get enough the other player should be way past marines... lets not even mention how taking out the right building in a rush will slow you down even more.
Fine.
How about 20 marines when the other dude only has 4 (probably less if he doesn't trash his economy)?
And the tech advantage gives...
3 armor vs 6 attack=3 damage
0 armor vs 9 attack=9 damage
You can't survive that.:smallcool:


Of course you're experience with other RTS' would also matter.
I've played through the campaigns of an rts called State of War and completed the campaigns for Age of empires I, II and Conquerers. I've also played some PvP in AoE2. Mostly AIs though.


Sure there's a point where experience doesn't matter, but IM isn't that far above Spidey... who made Titania afraid of him once, and she's almost Hulk lvl.

IM is about as far above Spiderman as Batman is above an experienced street fighter.
And he's actualy just as experienced as Spiderman.

EDIT: I've also got tons of experience at TBSs and play chess at the university competition level if that means anything.:smalltongue:

[T.Titan]

Fine.
How about 20 marines when the other dude only has 4 (probably less if he doesn't trash his economy)?
And the tech advantage gives...
3 armor vs 6 attack=3 damage
0 armor vs 9 attack=9 damage
You can't survive that.:smallcool:



You never saw a pro-game replay, have you? I've seen 5-6 marines killed by SCV's... 4 Vultures taking out a whole Protoss base... one Goliath take out 3 Carriers...




IM is about as far above Spiderman as Batman is above an experienced street fighter.

You men like Bane, who broke Bat's spine... :smalltongue:

But really, experienced street fighter vs martial artist says nothing... if you spend 10 years practicing katas and you go against someone that's been in bar fights for 10 years you're most likely getting your ass kicked.



And he's actually just as experienced as Spiderman.

Spidey started younger... and as Marvel's uses a sliding timeline and Tony seems to have aged less then Peter... :smalltongue:

But really, Spidey fought armored enemies before, the fight was in an enclosed location, IM was very close by etc. Every advantage was for Spidey...

And as i said before, you're underestimating his powers, Spidey fought Hulk, Juggernaut, Crusher Creel and even Firelord on his own:

http://home.planet.nl/~5p1derm4n/cover/spider_man_amazing_1963_269c.jpg

and he also lifted this:

http://home.planet.nl/~5p1derm4n/cover/spider_man_amazing_1963_033u.jpg







I've played through the campaigns of an rts called State of War and completed the campaigns for Age of empires I, II and Conquerers. I've also played some PvP in AoE2. Mostly AIs though.

EDIT: I've also got tons of experience at TBSs and play chess at the university competition level if that means anything.:smalltongue:

So you're not as much of a noob as claimed.

[W Herzog Zwei]

Spidey is, in my opinion, underappreciated as far as fighting prowess goes but that Firelord debacle was just plain silly writing. One should filter the biggest crimes against suspension of disbelief made under the influence of Plot when one starts making vs. comparisons.

But I'd say Tony's loss to Spidey was quite believable in that situation.

[Selrahc]

But I'd say Tony's loss to Spidey was quite believable in that situation.

I'd agree with that. Peter completely blindsided him, which certainly goes a long way to evening the odds.

I still think that if Spidey and Iron Man had a fair fight, that theres not much Spidey can do to stop him.

[Person_Man]

And Batman CANNOT beat Wonderwomen, Flash or the Green Lantern (or Superman unless he uses kryptonite) even if the Flash just recently got brainwashed and lost all his experience.

Obviously you haven't read JLA: Tower of Babel. Ra's Al Ghul steals Batman's case files, and uses all of his ideas to beat the Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, Plastic Man, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Superman.

Given the right strategy, plenty of planning, and enough resources, a powerless mortal can beat any superhero. Only an idiot would get into a strait fist fight with Thor. If Iron man wanted to defeat Thor, a better strategy would be to leverage his superior resources to research some new technology that could separate Thor from Mjolnir (even if only for a few minutes), go to a secret bunker somewhere, and then send an army of armor powered agents to go and defeat Thor. If they fail, announce that anyone who harbors Thor is a terrorist, and drag them to Gitmo to be interrogated. Eventually your agents will defeat Thor, or he'll turn himself in to avoid having everyone he meets from being tortured. And if Thor ever does find your secret bunker, calmly tell Thor that the horror will continue until he turns himself in, even if Thor kills him.

But obviously that doesn't always make for the best plot, or the most interesting fight scenes.

[Dalenthas]

Does anyone else remember when shooting IM with lightning only made him stronger? Whatever happend to that? Writers these days...

[Stam]

Mmm...I think Spidey's quite a bit stronger now than he used to be? I saw a note in One More Day that says he can now lift twenty tons under optimal conditions, and he can throw a jeep around like it's nothing at all.

Then, take note of what he did to IM's mask after he flew off? That boy's got a lot of raw power on his hands now...although when it was still attached, all he did was bloody a knuckle. Hm. Perhaps it's the old polarized-armor trick, where it's tougher as a unit than as an individual piece.

[Selrahc]

Hm. Perhaps it's the old polarized-armor trick, where it's tougher as a unit than as an individual piece.

I was kind of thinking that its designed to be attacked from the outside, so its only protected from external attack.

If someone takes it off, and attempts to break it, its a lot weaker.


Mmm...I think Spidey's quite a bit stronger now than he used to be?


Yep. Hes gone from a 15 tonne press to a 25 tonne.

Still rather lightweight compared to most foes Iron Man fights.

[GoC]

Obviously you haven't read JLA: Tower of Babel. Ra's Al Ghul steals Batman's case files, and uses all of his ideas to beat the Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, Plastic Man, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Superman.
You mean the stupidest comic in modern times?
Yes, I've heard of it and it uses a lot of applied plebtonium and is not a good indication of how things actualy are.
Remember Lobo vs. Wolverine?


Given the right strategy, plenty of planning, and enough resources, a powerless mortal can beat any superhero.

Prove it.

btw: I didn't know Thor had any human friends.


You never saw a pro-game replay, have you? I've seen 5-6 marines killed by SCV's... 4 Vultures taking out a whole Protoss base... one Goliath take out 3 Carriers...
No I haven't (could you give me a link?) but...
My plan:
-I immediatly build two barracks (I have 1000 minerals and 8 SCVs remember?), two of those gas miners, put an SCV in each produvtion queu, send two SCVs out to scout recalling them to mining once the enemy is found and set everyone else at ore mining.
-Once the barracks are complete I build two Marines and a Firebat in each and set four of my SCVs at mining gas to get what's needed for the Firebat's.
-Once the soldiers are ready I send them off to attack the enemy base (I have two SCV scouts and would have found it by now).

Ok, now let's see what the hypothetical enemy could have when I arrive:
-8 SCVs (physicaly impossible to have more), a supply depot, barracks and one marine (no idea how he managed to mine 600 minerals in such a short time while wasting it on barracks and marines but anyway...).

-The marines don't matter as they can't be repaired and would be annihilated in a couple of shots (Stims ftw!).
-The SCVs have 60 hp and I do: 22*2+9*4=80 damage per salvo so they can't repair eachother (can't repair a dead SCV!:smallbiggrin: ).
-Also if anything happens remember how much armor these marines have. An SCV does 2 damage to a marine and 1(!) to a Firebat.
-Counting stims I should be able to kill one as they (or me) approach and another two for every time they attack so they can do 7*2+5*2+3*2+1*2 =32 damage before death=one of my marines dead.
-The enemy marine could up that to 40 but as the targeting AI puts marines as higher priority than SCVs (and I have a range advantage) he can't do much else.
-So either they run and I destroy their base (the only place they can store minerals) or they stay and fight and are annihilated (I love that word).
-If they run then I can hunt them down with my superior speed (yay stims!).

Any cracks in that plan?

PS: I overuse parenthesis...:smalleek:

[T.Titan]

Remember Lobo vs. Wolverine?


Remember that Wolverine made his debut in a 3 way fight against the Hulk and the Wendigo?! And actually killed the Wendigo (of course he was insta-ressurection). Lobo's been beaten by Hitman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitman_%28comics%29)... :smalltongue:





No I haven't (could you give me a link?) but...
My plan:
-I immediatly build two barracks (I have 1000 minerals and 8 SCVs remember?), two of those gas miners, put an SCV in each produvtion queu, send two SCVs out to scout recalling them to mining once the enemy is found and set everyone else at ore mining.
-Once the barracks are complete I build two Marines and a Firebat in each and set four of my SCVs at mining gas to get what's needed for the Firebat's.
-Once the soldiers are ready I send them off to attack the enemy base (I have two SCV scouts and would have found it by now).

Ok, now let's see what the hypothetical enemy could have when I arrive:
-8 SCVs (physicaly impossible to have more), a supply depot, barracks and one marine (no idea how he managed to mine 600 minerals in such a short time while wasting it on barracks and marines but anyway...).

-The marines don't matter as they can't be repaired and would be annihilated in a couple of shots (Stims ftw!).
-The SCVs have 60 hp and I do: 22*2+9*4=80 damage per salvo so they can't repair eachother (can't repair a dead SCV!:smallbiggrin: ).
-Also if anything happens remember how much armor these marines have. An SCV does 2 damage to a marine and 1(!) to a Firebat.
-Counting stims I should be able to kill one as they (or me) approach and another two for every time they attack so they can do 7*2+5*2+3*2+1*2 =32 damage before death=one of my marines dead.
-The enemy marine could up that to 40 but as the targeting AI puts marines as higher priority than SCVs (and I have a range advantage) he can't do much else.
-So either they run and I destroy their base (the only place they can store minerals) or they stay and fight and are annihilated (I love that word).
-If they run then I can hunt them down with my superior speed (yay stims!).

Any cracks in that plan?

PS: I overuse parenthesis...:smalleek:

Yeah... it requires more experience then you said you had... :smalltongue:

And depending on map size and configuration your scouts might not find the enemy so easily... just look at this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiHARRJMOc4

Stims without medics are a bad idea... and marines can't shoot while moving... you wouldn't believe how much that matters in a progame (check out the Related Videos from that link, one of them should have some Marine micro in it).

Also, AI gives precedent to closest enemy, which can easily be exploited with good micro, and a well placed supply depot also helps.

[beholder]

My plan:
-I immediatly build two barracks (I have 1000 minerals and 8 SCVs remember?), two of those gas miners, put an SCV in each produvtion queu, send two SCVs out to scout recalling them to mining once the enemy is found and set everyone else at ore mining.
-Once the barracks are complete I build two Marines and a Firebat in each and set four of my SCVs at mining gas to get what's needed for the Firebat's.
-Once the soldiers are ready I send them off to attack the enemy base (I have two SCV scouts and would have found it by now).

Ok, now let's see what the hypothetical enemy could have when I arrive:
-8 SCVs (physicaly impossible to have more), a supply depot, barracks and one marine (no idea how he managed to mine 600 minerals in such a short time while wasting it on barracks and marines but anyway...).

-The marines don't matter as they can't be repaired and would be annihilated in a couple of shots (Stims ftw!).
-The SCVs have 60 hp and I do: 22*2+9*4=80 damage per salvo so they can't repair eachother (can't repair a dead SCV! ).
-Also if anything happens remember how much armor these marines have. An SCV does 2 damage to a marine and 1(!) to a Firebat.
-Counting stims I should be able to kill one as they (or me) approach and another two for every time they attack so they can do 7*2+5*2+3*2+1*2 =32 damage before death=one of my marines dead.
-The enemy marine could up that to 40 but as the targeting AI puts marines as higher priority than SCVs (and I have a range advantage) he can't do much else.
-So either they run and I destroy their base (the only place they can store minerals) or they stay and fight and are annihilated (I love that word).
-If they run then I can hunt them down with my superior speed (yay stims!).


:smallconfused: youre a noob?

[W Herzog Zwei]

Lobo's been beaten by Hitman...

Deservedly so!

Before 52 that was the only Lobo story I had enjoyed - granted, I only started reading anything related to Lobo after he had grown too big for his own parodic origins and became a fan-favourite (around the Paramilitary Christmas Special days), so...

"I hated him on sight and I wasn't even looking at him." is one of the greatest opening lines of a comic ever. And the humiliation of Lobo at the end is something in a class of its own - I mean not only getting married to Bueno, but...

Hitman as a whole is one of my alltime favourite comics, and the Lobo crossover was FUN in capital letters.

"Spirit of Chow Yun Fat be with me now."

[GoC]

Remember that Wolverine made his debut in a 3 way fight against the Hulk and the Wendigo?! And actually killed the Wendigo (of course he was insta-ressurection). Lobo's been beaten by Hitman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitman_%28comics%29)... :smalltongue:
Wolverine vs. Hulk?
As in the Hulk who recently destroyed the illumnati (including the reality altering, Superman defeating, deus ex machina, cosmic power, Dr. Strange)?:smalleek:
The same one who lifted a mountain on his back?


Yeah... it requires more experience then you said you had... :smalltongue:
I said I was a noob at Starcraft not a noob at RTSs.


Stims without medics are a bad idea... and marines can't shoot while moving... you wouldn't believe how much that matters in a progame (check out the Related Videos from that link, one of them should have some Marine micro in it).
I need to destroy the enemy and the bonus firing speed and movement makes up for the meeger 1/4 hp loss. Especialy as I will not be using these marines again.


Also, AI gives precedent to closest enemy, which can easily be exploited with good micro, and a well placed supply depot also helps.
Hmm...
I've always seen my marines targeting units then buildings...

[T.Titan]

Wolverine vs. Hulk?
As in the Hulk who recently destroyed the illumnati (including the reality altering, Superman defeating, deus ex machina, cosmic power, Dr. Strange)?:smalleek:
The same one who lifted a mountain on his back?

The same one... but to be fair he wasn't as mad at the time, and once he landed a direct hit Wolverine's world started spinning...

And Hulk outsmarted Strange... imo that was the best moment in the series.



I need to destroy the enemy and the bonus firing speed and movement makes up for the meeger 1/4 hp loss. Especially as I will not be using these marines again.

You haven't played Brood War yet i assume.




I've always seen my marines targeting units then buildings...

They do, but they pause between bursts and good micro can take advantage of that and the cover a well placed building can give...

[W Herzog Zwei]

The same one... but to be fair he wasn't as mad at the time, and once he landed a direct hit Wolverine's world started spin

Another thing we should take into account here is that the character concept of Wolverine was pretty much still in the air when he first appeared - he was supposed to have super-strength, the claws weren't a part of him but a weapon connected to his gloves etc. This wasn't implicitly mentioned in the comics, though, but on the drawing board Wolvie was much different than we have come to known him. So the early fight, where he held his own against both hulk and wendigo at the same time got stuck in the continuity - it's a tad sillier with the regular Wolvie - well, not as much anymore when we have the "heals everything in less than a second and can regenerate from being burned to a crisp" -Wolvie currently. Yeah, the later one-on-one fights with the Hulk don't have that explanation, but this first one does.

One match I really liked was the McFarlane days Joe Fixit/Grey Hulk vs. Wolvie combat - a tad more believable on power levels scale and, a good match with a reasonable ending.

[sealemon]

You mean the stupidest comic in modern times?
Yes, I've heard of it and it uses a lot of applied plebtonium and is not a good indication of how things actualy are.
Remember Lobo vs. Wolverine?

Really? That would be your pick for stupidest comic? Not the Spidey Clone arc or Wolverine regenerating from being burnt to a skeleton?

As Batman explained to Superman, he had spent a lot of time preparing for the eventuallity that one of the "big gun" might go rogue...as had happened in the past. Bruce Wayne's money plus his strategic brilliance plus access to the hyper-crazy tech of the DC universe made it all possible. Ras ambushed the individual Leagues with those traps and plans. In what way was the arc not a "good indication of how things actualy are?"

I could see the argument that the whole OMAC thing was silly, and of course if you don't like a story it's all good, I just though your statement was a bit of an exageration.


As far the OP goes, I'm really looking forward to the movie. Maybe by then Marvel will have Tony acting more like a hero.

[sikyon]

I was just pulling the ranking out of my hat - there hasn't been too much mixing of the dieties with the Cosmic big guns in Marvel. Outside of superhero-mode Thor and Hercules, naturally. One place I can think of was the Infinity Gauntlet where Thanos rather cut off the link of the gathering of gods (Norse, American, Greek, Russian, maybe others) by shattering bifrost rather than fighting them. So even there we didn't see full-scale gods vs. cosmic beings.

Celestials (mid-level Cosmic) have been showed to be able to wipe the floor with dieties, haven't they - so at least them, and thus the Eternity/Living Tribunal (high Cosmic) level guys should be stronger than at least layman-gods (meaning not the heads of their pantheons)? Or have I imagined that.

Anyway, I most wholeheartedly agree that Surfer and Galactus level guys are above regular superhero-Thor. But now, the question of "how strong is JMS allowed to write god-Thor?" is in the air. And likely will not be answered, as I suspect that the next writer will conviniently forget how strong JMS will write Thor.

Celestials arn't mid-level cosmic, they are high level cosmic. Your high level cosmic is more like god-cosmic; they are nearly all powerful. The gods like Thor don't hold a candle light to the celestials, galactus, pheonix force, watchers, etc. Silver Surfer is probably more powerful than Thor, in a fair fight.

[GoC]

You haven't played Brood War yet i assume.
Nope. Why?


They do, but they pause between bursts and good micro can take advantage of that and the cover a well placed building can give...
Could you elaborate.


Really? That would be your pick for stupidest comic? Not the Spidey Clone arc or Wolverine regenerating from being burnt to a skeleton?
...
Point.

Mind telling me how he beat each of them? I only know how Sups (sups forgot his Superspeed again) and Flash (beaten by his own stupidity and some deus ex machina tech.) were beaten. The rest I've heard about but don't know exactly what happened.

[nothingclever]

What's the point of bragging about how awesome you are at a game when you're given double everything from the start?
You shouldn't need to discuss it anyways since it was simply a one line comparison which didn't really add anything to the discussion anyways.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Wolverine vs. Hulk?
As in the Hulk who recently destroyed the illumnati (including the reality altering, Superman defeating, deus ex machina, cosmic power, Dr. Strange)?:smalleek:
The same one who lifted a mountain on his back?

The Hulk did that with Plotstrength. Deadpool defeated the Hulk (and even higher-tier Marvel foes) with the same thing. Only he knew he was doing it ("By the laws of Spiritual Justice, and most Clint Eastwood flicks,"), which makes it funny.
Similarly, Wolverine beat Hulk then by the same rule.

[GoC]

What's the point of bragging about how awesome you are at a game when you're given double everything from the start?
You shouldn't need to discuss it anyways since it was simply a one line comparison which didn't really add anything to the discussion anyways.

Umm...
A. I said I was a noob. Not sure why that would be considered bragging...
B. I'm making a point that there's only so much experience can do. Double the experience can't make up for double the power/shields/resources.
C. You're right, but I think the point that experience isn't the instant win button everyone thinks it is needs to be driven home on these forums at some point.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

A. You're making a logically invalid comparison in the idea that a fistfight is somehow comparable to a real time strategy videogame.

[Dalenthas]

This thread is going hopelessly off topic. In an effort to push it back on topic....

While I conceed that Spider-Man has a slight experience advantedge over Iron Man, it is negligable compared to the power-level difference between the two. Any fight Spidey could hope of winning against Shellhead would require significant planning and ambush tactics. The way it actually happened was extreamly poorly written and I must conclude that Tony let Peter win because his heart really wasn't in the fight.

The fight against Thor was just silly and ignored several pieces of continuity.

[GoC]

A. You're making a logically invalid comparison in the idea that a fistfight is somehow comparable to a real time strategy videogame.

*sigh*
Actualy if you look back you'll see that was just one of the examples I used.

[Blue Paladin]

Mind telling me how he beat each of them? I only know how Sups (sups forgot his Superspeed again)How does superspeed unexpose him to kryptonite radiation? This isn't the Silver Age anymore, where he's faster than light. Once the red-k is revealed, it's too late.

Are you sure you know what happened? This particular red-k made him more powerful, and his powers and senses were heightened to such a degree that hearing a pindrop was like a jackhammer in his skull. He had to flee to the most remote of locations so his head wouldn't explode.


and Flash (beaten by his own stupidity and some deus ex machina tech.) were beaten.Instinct = stupidity? He's done this for years, vibrating through bullets as a matter of course. Is he suddenly supposed to grow Batman-prescience and know to dodge this particular bullet instead? He was probably at least a little concerned with how the ambushing party took out Wonder Woman in one shot, too.

If a vibrating bullet is DEM, then what do you call a bullet that puts Wonder Woman in a VR environment? The neural implant played off her competitive spirit, pitting her against a virtual opponent who is [slightly more than] her equal in combat. Wonder Woman would strive harder and harder until her body failed under the strain.

Martian Manhunter was hit by a cloud of nanites that convert his skin to magnesium. Since Mg ignites in air, that effectively removes him from being active anywhere in the Earth's atmosphere. Oh, and the whole pyrophobia thing.

Speaking of phobia, Aquaman was hit by a variant of Scarecrow's fear-toxin, making him deathly afraid of water. Pretty mean for a guy who needs to be immersed in the stuff to live.

Plastic Man was flash frozen and hit with a hammer. Ouch.

Green Lantern was self-neutralized. While asleep, he was given a hypnotic suggestion that he was blind. When he woke up, the ring made it happen.

Batman himself was neutralized by the theft of his parents' corpses. He was incommunicado for much of the story arc, and therefore unable to recognize that the plans disabling the rest of the League are his own until it's too late.

[W Herzog Zwei]

Green Lantern was self-neutralized. While asleep, he was given a hypnotic suggestion that he was blind. When he woke up, the ring made it happen.

Wouldn't work on Hal Jordan - he could still drop you with one punch even blind. I bet Bats' surefire way of getting rid of Hal would involve STDs...

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

*sigh*
Actualy if you look back you'll see that was just one of the examples I used.
Actually, if you look back, you'll see I commented on just one of the examples you used.


The fight against Thor was just silly and ignored several pieces of continuity.
Tony is powerless against Thor. You know how Mjolnir gives him control of electricty? You know how the brain works? If this was badass, clone Thor, instead of the Thor who doesn't kill good people who just happen to disagree with him, he could've finished Iron Man Xavier-style by removing his entire mind. That suit won't do him too much good without it. Especially given his medical mortal host, it's a pretty good idea to assume Thor knows this.
The only think that's silly, to me, is the fight lasting as long as it did.

[Dalenthas]

Thor can create lightning and shoot electrical blasts... this does not equal complete control over electricity. Now I could be wrong, but I've never seen him do anything more sophisticated than blast the crap out of something with lightning. He might be a god, but even gods have limits.

[W Herzog Zwei]

Yes, but a gods limitations don't come into play when he's going against just a man in a tincan suit.

Ps. the "control the electricity of yer brain" is a silly idea and goes from the realm of fantasy and magic where dieties reside to the realm of science-fiction, where Thor would not even look at. He'd have some beer instead. "You! Military industrial drone woman! Bring us beer"

[T.Titan]

Nope. Why?

Terrans get Medics...



Could you elaborate.

Check out that link i posted... there's got to be a video of dancing marines there somewhere.



B. I'm making a point that there's only so much experience can do. Double the experience can't make up for double the power/shields/resources.

Oh, and Don't get me started on having 2x health in FPS's... Quake (2 started it i think) had a power-up that did just that, and trust me, it never made a n00b any less dead...



Thor can create lightning and shoot electrical blasts... this does not equal complete control over electricity. Now I could be wrong, but I've never seen him do anything more sophisticated than blast the crap out of something with lightning.

You haven't been reading Marvel for long enough... is a nigh indestructable armada coming for earth?! Reed Richards builds an anti-armada ray in 2 days... is the villain immune to energy attacks? Tony Stark invents a new repulsor ray that's immune to his immunity... is Thor too busy to fight for real? Mjolnir can suck out your soul... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mjolnir_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Uses)

[Blue Paladin]

Wouldn't work on Hal Jordan - he could still drop you with one punch even blind. I bet Bats' surefire way of getting rid of Hal would involve STDs...That's exactly right. They even show in a flashback how Batman was probing the others for weaknesses. As an artist, Kyle relies on his sight, and specifically said that he could hardly think of anything worse than blindness.

For Hal, Batman probably had a yellow suit :smalltongue:

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Thors is a) Not stupid, and b) soulbound to a medical doctor.
I think he could figure out the brain thing pretty easy, as if he'd even have to.
Tony's suit can only take so much lightning. Thor can make as much as he wants. While his suit might be able to absorb the actual electricity due to some inane deus ex machina power he picked up at some point, the sheer kinetic energy involved in a lightning strike of the power Thor can make would tear apart his armour, and the sheer heat that could be involved in that much light would melt pretty much any metal. Tony's armour over the limits any real metal armour could be, true. The limits of it are epic and unbelievable. Thor, however, doesn't have limits. He's a damn god.

[GoC]

While his suit might be able to absorb the actual electricity due to some inane deus ex machina power he picked up at some point, the sheer kinetic energy involved in a lightning strike of the power.

The words "lightning" and "kinetic energy" do not belong in the same sentance.

[Covenantwgw]

As far as the "batman vs. superman" debate let's not forget that during Dark Knight Returns he handily beats superman 3 times without a whit of kryptonite. It's been well established in canon that Batman can and has taken down beings of immence power using strategy and resources.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

The words "lightning" and "kinetic energy" do not belong in the same sentance.

No. Lightning is a terrestrial type of Plasma, which is pretty closely tied with kinetic energy. That aside, when the bolt of lightning at almost 150,000 miles an hour strikes something, what kind of energy do you think is used? It's not just electrical.
Aside from this, your attempt at wittiness in your comeback only achieves at furthering the inanity of it; you used those words in the same sentence, yourself.

[Grod_The_Giant]

As far as the "batman vs. superman" debate let's not forget that during Dark Knight Returns he handily beats superman 3 times without a whit of kryptonite. It's been well established in canon that Batman can and has taken down beings of immence power using strategy and resources.

um...what? Are we talking about the same book here? Because I remember Batman being well-prepared, Superman just having been hit by a special nuke, and Bats getting the spit beat out of him before faking his death.
http://www.superdickery.com/images/****/threeribs.jpg

Of course, that fight doesn't count for two reasons. 1: alternate reality. 2: that wasn't Superman. Obviously. No way in hell Supes would go around destroying aircraft carriers and giving up freedom to 'go on helping people'.

A better example would be the fight in Hush, where Superman was mind-controlled by Poison Ivy. Neither combatant was trying to kill the other (Superman was fighting the control, the only reason- by Batman's own admission- he didn't squish Bats with super-strength. Batman had his kryptonite ring, hypersonics, a rigged battlefield, yadda yadda yadda...and he didn't win. All he could do was stall until Catwoman faked a hostage scene with Lois Lane. This was a modern fight, incidentally. Written by a good writer.

[Logic]

um...what? Are we talking about the same book here? Because I remember Batman being well-prepared, Superman just having been hit by a special nuke, and Bats getting the spit beat out of him before faking his death.
http://www.superdickery.com/images/****/threeribs.jpg

Of course, that fight doesn't count for two reasons. 1: alternate reality. 2: that wasn't Superman. Obviously. No way in hell Supes would go around destroying aircraft carriers and giving up freedom to 'go on helping people'.

A better example would be the fight in Hush, where Superman was mind-controlled by Poison Ivy. Neither combatant was trying to kill the other (Superman was fighting the control, the only reason- by Batman's own admission- he didn't squish Bats with super-strength. Batman had his kryptonite ring, hypersonics, a rigged battlefield, yadda yadda yadda...and he didn't win. All he could do was stall until Catwoman faked a hostage scene with Lois Lane. This was a modern fight, incidentally. Written by a good writer.I posted something almost identical until the forum ate my post.

[W Herzog Zwei]

um...what? Are we talking about the same book here? Because I remember Batman being well-prepared, Superman just having been hit by a special nuke, and Bats getting the spit beat out of him before faking his death.

The "three times" bit makes me think it's DK2, not DKR, that is discussed here. There Bats & co. have significantly less difficulties handling Supes.


Written by a good writer.

Heh.

Granted Loeb wasn't that bad back then, but what he has done since, has tarnished his reputation beyond repair. He might not only be the worst writer currently, but the worst mainstream writer who ever existed in any possible universe or timeline. Yep, I took Ultimates vol 3. THAT badly...

But, truth to be told, I kinda liked Hush. Could have just been Jim Lee drawing Catwoman and Ivy, though.

[GoC]

No. Lightning is a terrestrial type of Plasma, which is pretty closely tied with kinetic energy.
Actualy it's a discharge of electricity which produces a small amount of plasma. And the plasma doesn't really move.
Sorry, but lightning doesn't impart much kinetic energy. The electrical charge creates forces so much greater than the feeble amount of kinetic energy.


That aside, when the bolt of lightning at almost 150,000 miles an hour strikes something, what kind of energy do you think is used?
Where are you getting that number?


Aside from this, your attempt at wittiness in your comeback only achieves at furthering the inanity of it; you used those words in the same sentence, yourself.
That might actualy qualify as a flame on this board. I'll have to ask a mod about it.
Its not "attempt at wittiness", its an expression commenly used among us humans.

Blue Paladin: I typed up a nice long response but giantitp ate it and I don't have the energy to rewrite it. Sorry.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

The amount of kinetic energy created is hardly feeble at a magnitude of lightning a deific power may create, and while still less than the electrical power, we are supposing Iron Man has his silly immunity to the force of electricity, which negates that power. Effectively, it's that dealing 1d6 damage with a sword is more damage than 100d6 with lightning if the enemy's immune to lightning.

I have no memory of where that came from, but the exact number is 136,000 miles per hour, from what I do remember.

All I said was that it's silly to state that two words do not belong in the same sentence while using both those words within the same sentence. I don't know if that's a common phrase, but either way, it's nonsensical and self-contradictory. It being popular does not change that.

[Blue Paladin]

The amount of kinetic energy created is hardly feeble at a magnitude of lightning a deific power may create, and while still less than the electrical power, we are supposing Iron Man has his silly immunity to the force of electricity, which negates that power. Effectively, it's that dealing 1d6 damage with a sword is more damage than 100d6 with lightning if the enemy's immune to lightning.

I have no memory of where that came from, but the exact number is 136,000 miles per hour, from what I do remember.Wikipedia quotes the 136000 mph, but if you follow the link cited, that's just the speed of the leader stroke. The return stroke is at 62 million mph, and any subsequent strokes occur so fast as to all appear as the same lightning bolt. That said, the kinetic energy is still pretty negligible, since the mass in question is 9.1x10^-31 kg. An electron.

Even moving at the speed of light (which it doesn't), an electron packs the punch of about 27 sextillionths of a Newton. Assuming a lightning bolt transfers a charge of (let's say) -20 C, that's 125 quintillion electrons. So each of these super lightning bolts can -almost- move a pound of material one meter. Thor's a god an all, and I suppose he could do that if he really wanted to. I'd just push it with my hand.

[For argument's sake, you can change the transferred charge value to an arbitrarily large number for an equally arbitrarily large change in force. I'm just pointing out that regular lightning, even beefed to the point of the speed of light (a factor increase of over 2600), can move approximately three apples through kinetic impact.]

Unless you're trying to say that you could defeat Iron Man by dropping three apples on him. That would be an insult, not a point of fact.

GoC: Don't worry about it. Happens to me a lot too; I've started just writing replies in Notepad, then logging in to GitP and copy/pasting when I'm done.

[T.Titan]

Blue Paladin: I typed up a nice long response but giantitp ate it and I don't have the energy to rewrite it. Sorry.

That's what the big arrow button marked Back in the upper left corner is for people.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Thor lightning is as wide as a house, in one panel, and lasts for multiple panels of action. It clearly doesn't follow all the normal rules (pinch effect is obviously changed, and that house-wide bolt had damn well be more than one electron), and seems to be a column of maintained plasma.

[T.Titan]

Well if Zeus can do it so should Thor:


There may also be a thin layer of water clouds underlying the ammonia layer, as evidenced by flashes of lightning detected in the atmosphere of Jupiter. (Water is a polar molecule that can carry a charge, so it is capable of creating the charge separation needed to produce lightning.) These electrical discharges can be up to a thousand times as powerful as lightning on the Earth

:smallwink: :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: