View Full Version : Some help with low level Paladin

2007-12-02, 02:24 PM
I am trying to help someone with a low level, (one off adventure lvl1-3) paladin.

Here it is (http://www.thetangledweb.net/addon.php?addon=Profiler&page=view_char&cid=5208)
Yep thems the stats, but they can be re-ordered... I'm not sure the STR and CHA shouldn't be switched.
I would like to produce someone who'll have plenty to do... no sorry a paladin it must be, and human to boot.
So starting at first, a viable three level build, that doesn't rely on hideous cheese. Also I believe the adventure will be mostly dungeon based so mounted feats will probably be pointless.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Sorry Amiria try again, I've hit the update button... Doh. It is pretty much bare bones.

2007-12-02, 02:37 PM
There are not stats in the sheet. There isn't anything in the sheet so far safe for the character picture and the name of the campaign. :smallconfused:

Ah, ok now I see it. Hmm, not very high stats (24-points.) I'd keep the 16 in charisma, but then invest in strength when the level-ups come.

With that low Dex you should go sword-and board style, at least at the start.

Edit: Don't know if it helps, but do you know OneWinged4ngel's Rebalanced Paladin (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045) ? Or Fax Celestis' Paladin Variant (http://corporation.walagata.com/fax/wiki/index.php/Paladin) ? If there are batman wizards, CoDzillas and ToB classes in the game, then one those variants would help to keep a Paladin from being completly overshadowed.

Later might come more, I'm currently preoccupied elsewhere on the boards.

2007-12-02, 03:25 PM
Thanks Amiria I'll check them out.
OK how about
Martial study - crusaders strike
Martial stance - Martial spirit
As the two feats
Then maybe a couple of cheap flaws for a couple more feats..
What does that sound like?

2007-12-02, 04:22 PM
Man, I would not want to play a Paladin with those stats!

At Level 1-3 I don't think it's going to be all that helpful to have such a high Charisma and low physical stats.

Here's what I might be inclined to do:

Human Paladin 1 AB 1(4), AC 20, HP 9,
Attributes: Strength 13, Dexterity 16, Constitution 9, Intelligence 11, Wisdom 8, Charisma 13,
Saves: Fortitude +1, Reflexes +3, Willpower -1,
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Shield Specialisation (Heavy Shield),
Skills: Ride 4(7), Diplomacy 4(5), Religion 4(4),
Equipment: Short Bow, Twenty Arrows, Short Sword, Heavy Shield, Scale Mail,

2007-12-02, 04:31 PM
You have a point Matthew. Though I should be able to afford chain shirt I recon... i might suggest a re-roll i don't think that DD will mind, and that was my problem the stats are pretty grim.. and I've rolled up a pretty tough warblade, so I feel concentrating on healing manouvers wouldn't be a poor choice as I fear whatever she rolls I will still be dishing it out harder and faster than any paladin, and I don't want to steal the show.

2007-12-02, 04:38 PM
Yeah, that would seem to be a better approach. I'm not saying it's unplayable, far from it, but it sucks to be outshone.

Renegade Paladin
2007-12-02, 04:42 PM
If the DM will go for it, I heartily recommend the rebalanced paladin that Amiria linked above. It won't offset that abysmal stat block, but it'll be better than struggling along with bad stats and one good attack per day. At low levels it doesn't make all that much difference which one you use anyway; the smites are 1/encounter (and don't multiply on a crit) and the aura of courage has a 30 ft. radius instead of 10. Those are the only real differences before you hit 5th level.

2007-12-02, 04:48 PM
Edit @^ I agree, I will attempt to stay clear of homebrew rather than demand too much of the DM though either re-balance is as you say quite reasonable.

Yeah She's new to D&D and this is a fun, fast leveling demo style game, so yeah I asked her to re-roll, the DM won't mind one bit I'm sure.

Though your dex build is a good solution it has issues with including the healing manouvers, only longsword, falchion, greatclub and maul can be used. Longsword is fav, though it still disallows finesse...
Hopefully the new stats will make things easier.

2007-12-02, 04:52 PM
Yeah, I didn't say it so clearly before ... didn't want to hurt the feelings of that poor little Paladin. :smallredface: But those stats suck. If you offset the stat modifiers you arrive at a grand total of +2. I believe that warrants a reroll even under the RAW.

With a new roll and than hopefully better stats eevrything would look more bright.

2007-12-02, 04:53 PM
Ok.. Lets see.. Ok... You will want to go sword and Board right now... So, as you first feats get Shield Especialization and Power Attack. In lvl 3 get Divine Shield, so you will get a Magic +3 shield during 4 rounds per use of Turn Undead.

When you reach lvl 3 you will become something like this:

AB: 3 + 1= 4 (for a low power campaing, it is ok)
AC: 4 + 6(shield) - 1 + 10 = 19 (using divine shield and assuming at least a medium armor. Again it seems low, but it is ok for a low level low power campaing character)

Your next objectives? Get Divine Might for your next feat and Extra Smiting as your 6th level feat (since you are sword and boarder dont use power attack to often, I will explaing how to use it effectvely later). Now, by this time you will be smiting 4 time per day (please, use the Charging Smite Variant from PHII so you can avoid expending feats with a mount. Beeing a Charging Smite will make you loose your mount at level five, but from this level on you will smite with +2 damage per paladin level and you won't loose smite attempts that fail when you charge) and have a Turning pool of around 7 times per day. Quite Nice. You will boost offense and defense with Turnings directed to your Divine Feats.

Ok, now you want to know how to make a usefull deal of your Power Attack Being a S&Bder Paladin? Go Like this, whenever you charge for a smite (always charge for a smite after level 5) and use your one handed power attack, get your charisma bonus, compare it with your BAB, now get the number you got and apply half of it to your damage. It will own a little more and make your power attack usefull.

ex: You at level 6

BAB: 6
Cha Bonus: 3
Str: 1

Smite Evil: 6 + 1 + 3 - 2 (from power attacking, it is half your cha bonus rounded up) = + 8 attack roll. Good! + a charge, we turn it to 10.

Damage: 1d8 + 1 + 18 + 2 = a max damage rating of 29 per charging smite. Which is quite nice. This will increase if you get a magic sword for yourself.

Btw, don't get weapon focus feats, they are just lame...

edit: Ok, them... Since it is ok to say it... These stats hurt... That's why I don't like rolling stats... I prefer a Point Buy system, with same values to everybody.

2007-12-02, 04:59 PM
Fawsto no need to make things harder on ourselves. This is a one off, three level progression, no need to build for the future...
and horrible though it may sound, with a BAB of 3 max even weapon focus begins to make sense.

2007-12-02, 05:08 PM
You said fast leveling, dind't you? So thinking about the future is more than plausible.

Ok, if you won't think to the future and with stats like that, just go for what I said from level 1 to 3, remove the power attack and get that feat that gives you a + 3 HP score. So the character will fight for long during battles and be more usefull. Also, if you desire, get the Weapon Focus... At low levels it is good, indeed, at higher levels it is lame... As you said, we are not planing to the future...

Edit: Pehaps I've got it wrog, you will level up fast from 1 to 3 and them stop playing the campaing? Ok... No need to go further here... Give it the starting Paladin Pack. it is just "trial version" isn't it?

2007-12-03, 04:36 PM
OK so the new reroll is in... .
it's quite a bit roseier (http://www.thetangledweb.net/addon.php?addon=Profiler&page=view_char&cid=5208)

I'm still keen on the TOB healing manouver and stance as feats, maybe a flaw or two for anything else that fits.

wadya think?

2007-12-03, 04:51 PM
Now those stats look nice. :smallsmile: I'm not sure if Martial Study (Crusader's Strike) is worth it. But since you need a Devoted Spirit maneuver to get Martial Stance (Martial Spirit) you could instead go for Vanguard Strike as a more offensive option. Still, both maneuvers are quite weak since you can use them only once per encounter, they serve mostly as the prerequisite for the stance.

If one of the paladin variants which I mentioned is still an option, I'd go for OneWinged4ngel's. I like it more and it stays closer to the RAW paladin.

Dexterity is now high enough that she doesn't need a shield. So I'd go for a Greatsword then. Power Attack as the 3rd level feat since you don't get that much benefit out of it before because of low BAB. Weapon Focus is also a solid choice since it is a low-level game.

2007-12-03, 06:39 PM
Good point, I will go for that, though Libris would rather sword and board so should I go for sheild feats? any good ones?
Sheild spec might be over kill
10 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 1, 20 rather than 19
Perhaps something with a stronger Paladin flavour...

2007-12-03, 08:40 PM
Can you multiclass into crusader or when you say 'a paladin it must be' do you mean that you're going 1-20? Levels in crusader would be a whole lot more efficient than wasting two feats. Also, your HP is wrong - it should be 13.

2007-12-03, 08:48 PM
Heh, heh. Seems like the opposite problem now, those Attributes are too good!

Ah well, I certainly wouldn't abandon the Heavy Shield at Levels 1-3. Shield Specialisation is probably overkill, but it's pretty attractive at such low levels (especially if you happen to be using the retraining rules) and I'm not particularly sold on the Tome of Battle Manoeuvres. Still, she doesn't really need any help to be effective with those Attributes.

2007-12-04, 04:26 AM
Yeah thats what I figured.
From the ridiculas to the sublime...

Thanks ^^ forgot to change them after the last lot of stats..
I would prefer to give the character crusader levels, but it aint mine so the final call goes to the player, and she say Paladin, so paladin she gets.

It's only for a one off, three level stint, so with those stats she most deffo won't be left behind... which has the consequence of letting my crasy warblade off the leash.
*rubs hands in glee*