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Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-05, 04:53 PM
hello all. A buddy of mine is starting a new Star Wars campaign using the new 'Saga edition' of Star Wars d20. I was really curious to see how the book was written and how the system works since it seems to be based off of the new 4.0 dnd that will soon be released. I was hoping that some optimizers that have perused the new book might help me create a character.

Just about everyone is going to be playing a Jedi class, (they have elected to be neo sith as the campaign dates to just after the new jedi academy days, say 60 years after RotJ) though not everyone will necessarily start as a 'jedi'. i know I wanted to play a jedi, and try to make it the best I can, but I am not sure of what order to get all the talents and such.

My current build idea is 1 level in jedi, human, trained skills: use the force, perception, knowledge(galactic lore), initiative, acrobatics. Feats: Skill focus (use the force), Force training (+5 force powers), talent: Force focus (full round action, regain a spent force power)

Force powers: Force slam, force lightning, mind trick, force grip, dark rage.

I had lots of ideas for the talents...block, redirect, elusive target, resilience, damage reduction...just not sure what order to get them...I might want to get 'power of the dark side' so that I can get 'swift power', but not sure.

For feats, I was torn between buffing my 'use the force' ability to max from the start, or having an extra force training, or even something like acrobatic strike. Always a delicate balance between force powers and prowess with the lightsaber.

any ideas for how to progress the build? not opposed to strating as any class, so long as things turn out for the better.

Jack Zander
2007-12-05, 05:08 PM
Screw Dark Rage. You're obviously going for a caster type Jedi. Double up on another one of your powers instead, or take my favorite, move object, which dominates the game at low levels (actually pretty much dominates the game at all levels). Nothing can be better than flinging two mooks together, or defenestrating the BBEG.

You don't need block, deflect, and redirect to be a good Jedi. However, most people can't get past the idea of a Jedi who doesn't deflect blaster shots. If you can help it, try getting talents that focus purely on your force powers and pick up negate energy a few times instead. Who needs to deflect when you can just negate everything?

EDIT: And swift power is very awesome indeed. Especially when you are getting choked by another Jedi.

Attilargh
2007-12-05, 05:13 PM
Considering how mean blasters can be, Deflect will save your life. Multiple times, if your Charisma is any good. If you are expecting getting into melee instead, pick up Block. At low levels, encounters will probably not be long or numerous enough for you to run out of useful powers.

If you really want to annoy the hell out of everyone, just bump your UtF as high as possible, and pick up every Talent that will let you use it for something new. Pretty soon you'll be flying the party ship, listening at every door, acting before everyone, not getting attacked by anyone, and can kill stuff with your mind. Just watch out for any ysalamiris fresh out of your GM's homebrew pot.

Avoid Dodge like drunken wookiees. I may misremember, but unless you have lots of Strength and a big melee weapon, Two-Weapon fighting is a better investment than Double Attack.

Oh, and mesh tape is great stuff, and only costs 5 creds. Always keep a roll handy.


Sorry I don't have more info, I don't have my rulebook handy. Once I find it, I'll get back to you.

Jack Zander
2007-12-05, 05:28 PM
Heh, mech tape, just like in real life, my PCs use it for everything.

And no, block and deflect aren't necessary. It's usually easier to negate the damage with Negate energy than it is to deflect it. The only exception being at levels 1-3 where everything's attack bonus is a weak +1.

Attilargh
2007-12-05, 05:46 PM
Deflects don't eat Force Power slots, freeing them for other kinds of awesome. Also, assuming equal ability scores, wouldn't an attack bonus catch up with the UtF modifier only at 20th level? Eh, I'm sure I'm forgetting something here, so I'll just drop the issue until I can take a look at the rules.

Still, I'm fairly certain one can't use Negate Energy to counter getting hit with a vibro-axe.


Ędit: A-ha, book! It appears I am right and he is right: Negate Energy is mucho awesome, but Deflect isn't all that bad either. Both are pretty good options to keep your Jedi from harm. You still need Block for all those Gamorreans and other unciviliced folks.

Mando Knight
2007-12-05, 06:21 PM
I agree with Attilargh, spending a Force Power slot on Negate is a bit expensive, considering that Jedi somehow don't get Force Training as a bonus feat.
You have a WIS score of 18 or 19, don't you? As a caster-style Jedi/Sith, you should definitely get Force Training at almost every 3 levels.
Jedi bonus feats are strange, though. You don't get to choose Force Training or Boon, so you'll probably want to choose Strong in the Force as your level 2 bonus feat, then focus on defensive feats to keep yourself alive in between blasts of Force Lightning.
Also, get the Force Unleashed campaign guide when it's published. From what I've seen, it'll contain new (or refurbished RCR) Force Powers that could come in handy.
Power of the Dark Side will be useful for Swift Power, like Jack said. However, you may want Telekinetic Power/Savant to Grip/Move Object your enemies into submission...

Jack Zander
2007-12-05, 06:25 PM
Oh deflect and block are useful no doubt, but if you can get by without getting them and free up more talents, do it. With an 18 Wis, doubling up a few times on Negate Energy won't hinder you really. Get it 2-3 times, usually encounters will end before then, and if they don't, spend those force points! Don't horde them.

Attilargh
2007-12-05, 06:30 PM
Jedi somehow don't get Force Training as a bonus feat.
If they did, the amount of Force Powers available would be enough to break the Sun Crusher. Not kidding (much).

Also, Jack has a point. I'm more tuned to low-level low-stat games, so that might colour my posts.

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-05, 06:49 PM
Yeah, it seems that if I am going to go for a 'caster' style jedi then it would behoove me to keep my use the force at max...right now it is at +14 (our dm for some funny reason allowed us to roll 4d6 and drop the lowest while rerolling any 1 or 2...so minimal score was 9 on a very bad roll....I'm working with 18x2, 16x2 and 15x2...he says he likes heroic PC's...but he does expect us to perform up to our potential and often throws the kitchen sink at us)

Current idea is:

Str 15
Dex 16
Con 16/15
Int 15/16
wis 18
cha 18

I was so tempted to have the character be the Ithorian for a stat load of

Str 15
Dex 14
Con 15
Int 16
wis 20
cha 20

Not sure about the int/con...since the character is human, I enjoy an extra feat and skill...but I can up the con later and it is retroactive...not sure about the int for skills...need to double check. If I am not human, I won't be able to get skill focus and force training, though our DM did say that the idea of jedi not getting force training was silly and said we could be 'bookish' and take force training instead of lightsaber proficiency...

Hmm....that would give 6 force powers, and more importantly a use the force skill of +15 at level 1...

Not sure if it is worth it in terms o feats and especialy not having the lightsaber proficiency at 1st...just seems wierd to me...

I am guessing that dark rage is droppable for rebuke or negate energy...I took force focus so that in a pinch I could hide and refresh a power in combat, or while adventuring and needed a power again and again. Dark rage was mainly to make up for the lack of battle prowess due to focusing on powers...getting +4 or even +6 to everything is just brutal in this game.

Hmm....dark rage, acrobatic strike, battle strike, devastating strike....maybe I should figure out a great melee build as well...hmmm....

Jack Zander
2007-12-05, 06:56 PM
Oh, Dark Rage is good. You can make melee builds just as abusable if not more so than casters. However, it's never good to be a jack of all trades. Let on of your other party members do the fighting. One of my players has never made a single attack roll with his lightsaber yet. With that in mind, don't take lightsaber prof. and get those force powers and 20 Wis and Cha from the Ithorian race.

Also, you can stand next to a teammate who can block for ya if they are built right. I dunno if you've checked the errata, but if you spend a force point you can block or deflect an adjacent square. Let the fighters fight and defend you while you do the flashy force powers.

Mando Knight
2007-12-05, 07:32 PM
With that in mind, don't take lightsaber prof. and get those force powers and 20 Wis and Cha from the Ithorian race.

I agree. Take as many Force Powers as you can.


(our dm for some funny reason allowed us to roll 4d6 and drop the lowest while rerolling any 1 or 2...so minimal score was 9 on a very bad roll....I'm working with 18x2, 16x2 and 15x2...he says he likes heroic PC's...but he does expect us to perform up to our potential and often throws the kitchen sink at us)

Wow... I'm envious of your DM... but once you get to a decently high level, hope that the "kitchen sink" isn't a Corellian Corvette on a land battle! (Or, the Force forbid, an Imperial Star Destroyer!)


but I can up the con later and it is retroactive...not sure about the int for skills...

I didn't realize that CON modifiers to HP were retroactive, but I DO know that your INT is.


If they did, the amount of Force Powers available would be enough to break the Sun Crusher. Not kidding (much).


Heh... heh... yeah. You've got a point. Still, I find it a little odd that the only Force-oriented core class doesn't have the majority of the Force-based feats for bonus feats.

Jack Zander
2007-12-05, 08:14 PM
Meh, there's nothing overpowering about having a lot of force powers. You can still only cast one each round (baring swift power usable once per day).

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-05, 09:12 PM
hmm...I should get with some of the other players and see if they are doing 'caster' or melee...If someone else is doing caster, i might as well do a melee build...

Lets see...Zabrak for the extra +1 defense all around, jedi, force training (battle strike x3-4, maybe rage x1)

talent...block...pick up deflect, elusive target, lightsaber defense, damage reduction...

feats...pick up acrobatic attack, martial arts I-III, double attack, multiattack and such...weapon focus and specialization...+1 all saves.

hmm...maybe a few levels of soldier to pick up improved armor...hmm...let me plot some builds up to 8th...after that I'll be taking Sith Apprentice for sure to get Sith Lord...and for the 2nd tier force feats...

Mando Knight
2007-12-05, 10:33 PM
If you think you can survive without much armor until the 8th level, the Sith Apprentice can take Armor Specialization talents, but you'll still need to pick up the Armor proficiency feats sometime if you do so, and battle armor is not generally considered the Jedi way, so it won't be one of your bonus feats unless your DM is REALLY nice...

However, one disadvantage is that you won't be able to get as many Sith Apprentice/Jedi Knight talents, like the Duelist talents and Dark Healing (which, I think takes both your Sith Apprentice and Sith Lord levels into account when calculating damage).

Furthermore, you may want to eschew some ranks of Martial Arts or Double Attack for Dual Weapon Mastery, giving you the capability of being a Darth Maul repeat... unless you're trying to avoid Sith Lord cliches...

Also, you may want to swap your CHA or WIS for STR or DEX in a melee build, as you'll probably find yourself using the Force less and your lightsaber(s) more.

However, most of the Force Techniques/Secrets are geared towards the casters, with the Talents for saber specialists.

Also, remember that weapon specialization is now a talent, not a feat. If you want it, you'll likely have to give up another talent that you also want...

Don't even THINK about a jack-of-all-trades type Sith... if you have to pick and choose talents this carefully as a specialized character, you'll have to drop even more if you want to both cast lots of Lightning and chop up your enemies with a lightsaber!

Jack Zander
2007-12-05, 10:44 PM
If you go melee, make sure to get surge. Just one. The rest you can burn on dark rage and battle strike. The ability to move 6 more squares a turn can really help out in some battles.

Consider going trandoshan just for the coolness factor of being able to regenerate your limbs. Or wookie for massive massive damage.

TheOOB
2007-12-05, 10:54 PM
Well, every jedi should pick up surge at least once, the ability to run fast and jump high can get you into or out of a lot of situations.

Really planning ahead your feats and talents is a good idea, but you should really base your choices based on what you encounter a lot of. Deflect is always a good talent because you are almost guaranteed to take a lot of blaster fire in your career, and having extra defense from it never hurts. Block on the other hand is great if you end up fighting a lot of people with lightsabers and vibroblades, but not all together good if that situation never happens. Skill Focus(Use The Force) is is good for anyone who uses a lot of force powers, and powers such as move object, battle strike, and force lightning are always good picks because you can find reason to use them over and over again, unlike powers such as surge which or mind trick where usually one or two picks is enough.

Mando Knight
2007-12-06, 12:17 AM
If you go melee, make sure to get surge. Just one. The rest you can burn on dark rage and battle strike. The ability to move 6 more squares a turn can really help out in some battles.

Or get a jetpack. It's 300 credits, and it has the Fett factor... but I may be a bit biased in that direction.

...oh, yeah... Jedi don't get as many starting credits as others to compensate for their freebie lightsaber (if your DM says that the PC is being trained by another, and thus can start with a lightsaber).

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-06, 02:04 AM
Hmm...thanks for all the help...I see now mix and match might be bad for an optimal build...

I am thinking that if I go 'caster' mode, then I am looking to go for lots of force training feats, like every chance I get..maybe even 2 at first and take skill focus as the 2nd level jedi bonus feat. And then just stick with jedi, sith apprentice, and sith lord. Talents would be force focus, telekinetic savant, telikinetic power...maybe deflect if blasters are a big problem, since i'll have a high force skill it would just be a waste not to take advantage if it is useful.

If I decide to go melee...probably 18's in str and dex, 16 con and wis, 15 cha and int...take force training first level for rage and battle strike, devote feats and talents to melee...soldier 3 for devastating strike and weapon specialization, force adept 3 for the force weapon and bonus damage to lightsabers...hmm...will be tricky to fit all the prereqs in...must examine a build...

*lol*

I made an interesting though probably inneffective build using:
scoundral 1/Jedi 5/soldier 3/Sith Apprentice 5/sith lord 2/force adept 1/crime lord 3.

It was all about maximizing melee damage with dual and tripple attack, multiattack (sith app), greater weapon specialization(sith app), empower weapon (FA), and 3 levels in crime lord for infamy III for a -5 to any one my level or lower doing anything against me *lol*

yeah...probably not the greatest build, but it would be funny at the end if he ever survived to 20.

Jack Zander
2007-12-06, 05:05 AM
Take Deflect if you can afford it. Talent are hard to come by though. If you pick up negate energy, block might be better for those vibroblades, but that all depends on how many of those you see.

Mando Knight
2007-12-06, 08:19 AM
If I decide to go melee...probably 18's in str and dex, 16 con and wis, 15 cha and int...take force training first level for rage and battle strike, devote feats and talents to melee...soldier 3 for devastating strike and weapon specialization, force adept 3 for the force weapon and bonus damage to lightsabers...hmm...will be tricky to fit all the prereqs in...must examine a build...

Don't waste extra levels in Soldier just for Weapon Specialization (lightsabers). Jedi get that too... but just that one. If you want a rifle-toting blaster-holic Jedi, then by all means go take Soldier and Elite Trooper levels... your d12 will finally have a use!

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-06, 02:13 PM
Don't waste extra levels in Soldier just for Weapon Specialization (lightsabers). Jedi get that too... but just that one. If you want a rifle-toting blaster-holic Jedi, then by all means go take Soldier and Elite Trooper levels... your d12 will finally have a use!

Holy crap...I can't believe I missed that...I feel dumb now...hmm...

Ya know...if you do any straight build you will only have 10 talents...maybe it would be beneficial to take the first level in a caouple of classes to get extra talents. After all, if you are force sensitive, then you can gain a force talent any time you could gain any other talent...Taking a couple of levels outside of jedi just to get some force talents fast might not be the worst you could do.

Hmm...for a melee build, more attacks and some solid defense might be alot better than trying to qualify for Force adept and imbued weapon. While cool, it is a waste of 3 talents if you are making a melee build.

Mando Knight
2007-12-06, 04:01 PM
Ya know...if you do any straight build you will only have 10 talents...maybe it would be beneficial to take the first level in a couple of classes to get extra talents

Yes, but you'll miss out on bonus feats if you constantly multi-class. It's a constant struggle for level resources between talents and feats. It's up to the player to decide what mix is best for his character.

Also, fixed the typo...


Holy crap...I can't believe I missed that...I feel dumb now...hmm...

Don't worry about that... I didn't notice it myself until I was devising my own character... originally a Mando-Jedi cross, but I gave up on that idea--too difficult to capture both the Mandalorian Elite Trooper idea and the Force-powered Jedi idea in the same character.


While cool, it is a waste of 3 talents if you are making a melee build.

No, it's not necessarily a waste. Damage Reduction 10, Equilibrium, Power of the Dark Side, and Force Recovery can all be useful to a saber-Sith--and that's 4 out of the 3 you need for Force Adept. However, their d8 Hit Dice are a little weak compared to the Jedi and Sith Prestige Classes' d10s... and they also gain Base Attack Bonuses more slowly...

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-07, 05:53 PM
hmm...this thread has given me alot to think about...

what feats would be good for a melee build.

Hmm...to get enough feats, one might have to take jedi up to 12 or so...

8 levels of sith apprentice would give 4 talents in the duelist tree (greater WF, greater WS, multiattackx2?, more ls combat tree), 2 in sith lord for 1 talent, fearlessness, and one force secret (increased power or range), that leaves 10 levels to play with total...

5 talents in jedi would be block, deflect, elusive target, weapon spec, redirect

feats...assuming non human...you get feats at 1,2,3,4,6,6,8,9,10,12,15,18 if you follow 10/8/2...that is 12 feats...

improved defense
acrobatic strike
force trainingx2
skill focus: use the force
martial arts I
double attack
triple attack
two weapon fighting
imp two weapon
melee defense
whirlwind attack

hmm...I believe I have just discovered a 20 build for darth maul :smallbiggrin:

Mando Knight
2007-12-07, 11:14 PM
Actually, Triple Attack isn't quite as useful as Dual Weapon Mastery III, because of the total -10/attack. Dual Master III eliminates the penalty for full-round attacks using two weapons (not including double/triple attack...)

Furthermore, I think that Maul is actually Force-light... he fits KotOR II's Sith Marauder to a T (I think that's actually who they based it on...), so he would only have 1 Force Training, and maybe not even Skill Focus (Use the Force)... maybe he would invest in higher Martial Arts levels... he does use kicks and such frequently in his duel vs. the Jedi in Ep. 1...

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-08, 01:00 AM
Actually, Triple Attack isn't quite as useful as Dual Weapon Mastery III, because of the total -10/attack. Dual Master III eliminates the penalty for full-round attacks using two weapons (not including double/triple attack...)

Furthermore, I think that Maul is actually Force-light... he fits KotOR II's Sith Marauder to a T (I think that's actually who they based it on...), so he would only have 1 Force Training, and maybe not even Skill Focus (Use the Force)... maybe he would invest in higher Martial Arts levels... he does use kicks and such frequently in his duel vs. the Jedi in Ep. 1...

true...skill focus was mainly for low level use, once you get higher all you need is a total +15 and you'll never fail a force use check really...not the ones for combat that aren't resisted.

Jack Zander
2007-12-08, 01:04 AM
It's funny how in SWSE it's the casters who are overpowered at low levels while the fighters dominate that game at high levels.

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-08, 01:33 AM
It's funny how in SWSE it's the casters who are overpowered at low levels while the fighters dominate that game at high levels.

Yeah, and if you try and do them both, you are ok, then just blow.

Heh, crunching numbers for a purely defensive build, I can get the AC up to around 55 or so (reflex save) at level 20...that is very cool. but then I look at 'block' and 'redirect' and just sigh...they are only useful if your use the force skill is about 10 pts below your AC or higher...otherwise, they are useless...a level 20 force user skill focused and trained will have a base +30 use the force check. So at best, they can reliably deflect/block someone with an equivalent BaB...if your reflex save is 50+ though...why bother with block/deflect?!?!

hmm...without fancy feats and stuff...a 20th character has a reflex of between 20 and 25. Kinda puts things into perspective...block and deflect are more useful for a low defense melee build or a caster jedi...if you go full defense (fighting defensively, acrobatics, running attack, acrobatic strike, etc) then your AC will likely outpace your Use the force check and be useless to you.

Must investigate caster build next...

Jack Zander
2007-12-08, 01:47 AM
You don't even need a single level in Jedi to do the defensive build. Gungan scoundrel FTW.

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-08, 03:19 AM
You don't even need a single level in Jedi to do the defensive build. Gungan scoundrel FTW.

Heh, I was looking at that...as a one better, or just one funnier, I was contemplating a droid hero.

All I would need would be a stash of funds (not too hard to come by) and then just collect all the feats and talents I can grab...doesn't really matter which, as long as I have them...then I can just rearrange them however I want with the proper skill package :smallbiggrin:

I could even carry around different sets for when I need ranged, or melee, defense, doctor...stuff like that. Swapping talents is also very cool. I only wish that a droid could also take levels in jedi to gain access to the fin and happy talent trees they have.

I think I am correct, if you take on multiple classes as a droid hero, you can reprogram the talent you get from one class into a talent tree from any other class, as long as one of your classes has that talent tree available.

In that case, start as Soldier (they have the most starting feats), and then, since armor is overrated and expensive at 1st...reprogram the two armor feats and say, simple weapons into whatever you want while also choosing a level 1 feat. Then every level up to 5 pick a new class and get a talent and one starting feat...reprogram the talent/feat into something else as you see fit.

That gets you to 5...you take a hit on BaB and hit points from a pure soldier build, but it is worth it in +2 to every defense, every skill as a class skill, and a total of +2 feats and +2 talents that you otherwise would not have and the ability to train into ANY tree/skill...

You'll have to start working towards a 'focus' if you want a prestige class....by then you'll likely have enough cash floating around (wealth is fun), that you'll be able to upgrade yourself with some cool adds...like shields and heavy armor and flight capability. Now that is just cool...

I might do that if he allows it. Nothing more amusing than a droid laying waste to stuff...besides...with everyone else playing a jedi...it might be useful to have a character capable of doing anything on a moment's notice.

Mando Knight
2007-12-08, 03:47 AM
Actually, there's nothing preventing a droid from taking Jedi levels after their 1st heroic level... or that's what WotC's Jedi Counsel said... it's just that they can never gain Force Sensitivity or any derivative feats.

Also, don't mock stormtrooper armor. If you have a high DEX, then you can increase its max DEX bonus using the Tech Specialist feat (you don't have to have it, you just need to find someone who does) and with Armor Mastery (Soldier talent). This gives you a +6 to your Reflex, a +5 max DEX bonus, and a +2 equipment bonus to Fort, as well as +2 Perception and low light. Combine that with Armored Defense and Improved Armored Defense (both Soldier talents, Armored Defense is a prerequisite of both Armor Mastery and Improved Armored Defense)... and you've got level+3 bonus to Reflex and +5 max DEX. With Second Skin (again, Soldier talent, requires Armored Defense), this increases to Level+4 (I think Skin applies after Improved Armor) Reflex and a +3 Fort bonus. If you've got Juggernaut (one more Armored Defense derivative), then you can apply the same modifications to medium or heavy armor without the armor's movement penalty. If you've got over 20 DEX, though, you'll probably want to stick to modified lighter armor or no armor at all if you don't take these talents...

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-08, 05:01 AM
Actually, there's nothing preventing a droid from taking Jedi levels after their 1st heroic level... or that's what WotC's Jedi Counsel said... it's just that they can never gain Force Sensitivity or any derivative feats.

Also, don't mock stormtrooper armor. If you have a high DEX, then you can increase its max DEX bonus using the Tech Specialist feat (you don't have to have it, you just need to find someone who does) and with Armor Mastery (Soldier talent). This gives you a +6 to your Reflex, a +5 max DEX bonus, and a +2 equipment bonus to Fort, as well as +2 Perception and low light. Combine that with Armored Defense and Improved Armored Defense (both Soldier talents, Armored Defense is a prerequisite of both Armor Mastery and Improved Armored Defense)... and you've got level+3 bonus to Reflex and +5 max DEX. With Second Skin (again, Soldier talent, requires Armored Defense), this increases to Level+4 (I think Skin applies after Improved Armor) Reflex and a +3 Fort bonus. If you've got Juggernaut (one more Armored Defense derivative), then you can apply the same modifications to medium or heavy armor without the armor's movement penalty. If you've got over 20 DEX, though, you'll probably want to stick to modified lighter armor or no armor at all if you don't take these talents...

Holy crap...sanctified feces...perforated poo even!

You can take jedi levels after 1st...now that is the epitome of awesome...Still can't make use of block or deflect, but lightsaber defense is pretty good, and elusive target is the real winner for a non force user for a melee build...

Ok...yeah, I am so gonna do the droid...I'll make it a combat droid, but try my best to pick up enough spare programs that I can swap out to do just about anything.

Ooooh...while feats later on might be hard to come by, talents can be a dime a dozen...crime lord gives oodles of talents...I'll want to get some levels of that and elite trooper...then for extra feats I'll just start grabbing the 2nd level of the base classes...might as well.

Hmm...trained skills can't be changed if they are the 'starting skills, but it could be argued that as a custom droid, all 'starting' abilities are 'empty and the 'soldier' package was the first uploaded into the droid...as such, everything is mutable...does make me wonder if it would be better to start then as a scout...

assuming a +2 int mod, and 1 feat for 1st level....a soldier droid would have 30 HP, 6 feats, and 5 trained skills...a scout droid would have 24 hp, 4 feats (no shake it off :smallfrown: ), and 8 trained skills...

nah, more Hp and feats is probably better.

------------------

Edit: yes...this is definately the way I am going to go...start as a soldier, 1 level in everything, then double on soldier and jedi, alternate the two till 10th, elite trooper, then crime lord...2nd level of noble scoundral and scout for feats maybe, then crime lord and elite trooper to finish things off to get the most BaB...maybe finish with soldier if that is best.

by level 10 I should have 16 feats, 7 talents, 5 trained skills and a BaB of +7. I also will have 2 attributes that have increased by +2

If I can't make a kick ass build with that...I suck...as it stands, I think I am looking at (within level 15) of full martial arts, full dual weapon fighting, triple attack, armor mastery (with the storm trooper trick), and several levels of multiattack and the crime lord infamy that gives people penalties to do anything to you....Mmmmm...should be fun.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-12-08, 06:10 AM
Also, don't mock stormtrooper armor.

Stormtrooper armour is actually the best armour in the game for a balance of max dex and armour bonus along with some fort bonus. Well, Voduun Crabshell can be better but it's not exactly available.

Beleriphon
2007-12-08, 07:19 AM
level 20 force user skill focused and trained will have a base +30 use the force check. So at best, they can reliably deflect/block someone with an equivalent BaB...if your reflex save is 50+ though...why bother with block/deflect?!?!

Because you can Block/Deflect critical hits.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-12-08, 07:37 AM
a level 20 force user skill focused and trained will have a base +30 use the force check.

Wrong. It's half level +5 +5. That's 20 at level 20, 25 if you get your charisma to 20.

Education Destiny can get it higher but that needs a nice GM.

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-12-08, 09:21 AM
Wrong. It's half level +5 +5. That's 20 at level 20, 25 if you get your charisma to 20.

Education Destiny can get it higher but that needs a nice GM.

oops...and that is why I am still learning the system *lol*

Attilargh
2007-12-08, 10:50 AM
Because you can Block/Deflect critical hits.
And because you can deflect area attacks from Autofire.

Mando Knight
2007-12-08, 03:11 PM
And they can allow you to completely ignore damage from area attacks that would normally hit (like a Whirlwind that scores just below your Reflex still hits, but only half damage).