Feat to make the whip worth while

[Ahus]

It was brought to my attention that the only people whom would even think to use a whip as a weapon in the D&D sense would have been slave traders or carriage drivers. This is my attempt to stop the whip from sucking as a weapon. and allow some new uses for what is now the worst exotic weapon in D20.
Let me know what you all think...

Some of this is unnecessarily complex so as to make it very hard to do as part of a potential balance issue. Simple swinging needs a Profession check, an attack roll, a Use Rope check, and a Climb check, in addition a diving swing requires a pretty tough Jump check. This is a Wisdom skill, a Dexterity skill, two Strength skills, and a good BAB. Actually looking at it this may be a little over balanced (read nerfed).


Feat: Whip Master
Prerequisite: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip), Profession(Slave Trader) or Profession(Carriage Driver) 4 ranks, Use Rope 4 ranks

Make a Profession(Slave Trader) or Profession(Carriage Driver) skill check to do any of the following:

Profession DC = Opponents AC - Cause damage to armored combatants normal damage is lethal and bonus damage from any source i.e. high strength, sneak attack, etc. applies as non-lethal)

Profession DC20 + Use Rope DC20 - Set the end as a grapple must hit the Target vs AC 15. A character may then swing from the whip with a Climb check DC10 as a move action up to twice the length of the whip. a Use Rope check vs DC 15 will free the whip to be used again as a swift action.

Special: If a distance to be covered exceeds twice the length of the whip the character may attempt to set the Whip after jumping or may make a jump check from the whip after swinging to its extent.
To set the whip in the air the character must make a jump check prior to the attack roll upon making a Jump check attempt to set the whip while jumping the attack penalty varies by the jump check as -25+jump check max 0.
To Jump from the whip, the character must leave the whip in place and make a normal jump check at -5.

Special: If the attack is made as part of a charge the normal attack bonus for charging does not apply, however, if the setting is successful and there is sufficient room to swing, the character may swing up to twice the reach of the whip in addition to the covering up to 2x the character's move rate in the charge no other attack may be made during this charge regardless of any other feats or special abilities that may allow it.

Special: Characters with the ability to make multiple attacks may make an attempt to set the whip utilizing one of their attacks and then utilize the set whip to and initiate a charge by swinging from the whip at their next lower attack BAB.

Profession DC15 - Entangle an opponent Touch attack that if hits initiates a Use Rope vs Escape Artist or Strength check (whichever is higher) Entangled Opponents get a Disarm check (against the whip entangling them only) each round they are entangled and whenever the attacker performs an action that would normally provoke and AoO. If the attacker is disarmed or otherwise drops the whip entangling the opponent they get a +5 bonus on their escape artist or strength check to become untangled. Characters with the feat Improved Trip may add the bonus from that feat to their Use Rope check for the purpose of entangling with a whip.

Profession DC15 - Move unattended objects 1d6-weight(lbs rounded up)x5

[Nebo_]

Skill checks shouldn't be used in combat like that. They get very high bonuses a lot faster than normal attacks. It would be very unbalancing.

[Yami]

Take dor example the... diamond mind school I beleive, from ToB. Allows concentration checks for strikes and in lieu of saves. I've seen it in use, and beleive that while skills should be useful, even in combat, they should never outshine your normal to hit.

Also, if you want to make the whip worthwile I'd just sugeest playing a duskblade, but that is me.

[Skjaldbakka]

I'd recommend updating the Lasher to 3.5 1/day AoE Reflex save or die as a pinnacle ability? DC set by attack roll? Ouch!

I'm probably misremembering that in some way, but it was still a heinous 1/day ability with a whip.

[Draz74]

I think the way the designers intended you to be able to make the whip useful is to use alternate versions of the whip from splatbooks. There's stuff like the Blade Whip.

[reorith]

the whip isn't supposed to be useful in combat, that is why bards are automatically proficient with them.

[SofS]

A lot of these things seem like they should be powered down and made part of whip proficiency to begin with, like entangling and moving objects. Then your feat could focus on improving them.

Anyway, I like the idea of your feat, but it could use a little more focus, perhaps. There's a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel for using a whip as a grappling hook, for example; perhaps you could adapt that (or just give it as a trick as part of the feat) and then clarify your rules on swinging from things in regard to all aforementioned swinging instances.

Also, I'd like to suggest that making the whip useful might be best accomplished with a closer look at what "useful" means in this case. Personally, if there were a feat that let one threaten in the whole range of the whip, I'd go roll up a bard right now for the hell of it. Perhaps the whip is not meant to be a lethal weapon (I'm no fan of blade whips. They just don't do it for me). Rather, the whip could be the champion of nonlethal damage and tactics. Disarming and tripping are already covered, and the weapon has a good natural range. The addition of entangling and personal movement is a step in a good direction, I think.

My main problem with your feat is that it seems to expect one to tie up ranks in a skill that I'm not sure has ever been mentioned outside of this feat. Profession (slave driver)? What would that even entail?

[reorith]

Profession (slave driver)? What would that even entail?

driving slaves naturally.

[Ahus]

The goal in tying up skills was just that (tying up skills)...
It was an attempt to use the skill system to balance a new combat ability by using otherwise useless skills to give a new ability in combat.
It's sort of like using bluff to feint to deny dex to ac, or hiding for the sole purpose of sneak attacking.

I will take these comments into account. How do we feel on balance?
Maybe better if I lose the Profession check and replace with a Use Rope at the same DC?
I'll work on cleaning up the rules for swinging, but the gist is that you can initiate a charge by swinging, swing mid-charge and attack with your second attack per round, swing over chasms too wide to jump, and can jump and set the whip while airborne(with some penalties).

I also think I'll break it up into a few different feats.
Whip Strike (to do damage, no more AoO for attacking with a whip)
Whip Swing (to set as a grapple and swing)
Whip Tangle (to entangle foes)

In lieu of damaging armored opponents how about lowering their effective AC. Maybe a Disarm of Sunder check to remove a piece of armor of reduce natural armor.

[Tyonisius]

In the campaign that I play in, we allowed the whip user (he recently died) to do pretty much all of this using a combination of hit rolls, reflex saves, and a special made whip so that it no longer did nonlethal damage.

[lord of pixies]

maybe a magical wip (think about a flameing wip) or one based off of the one indeana jones has

[SofS]

driving slaves naturally.

When you're driving slaves, you can always go offroad.

[enderrocksonall]

I agree with SofS that the only reason the whip is "useless" is that you cannot threaten the whole 15-feet. Although if you could, i would say the weapon was broken.

Imagine a thri-kreen with 4 flaming whips, double-hit, and combat reflexes!

Edit: Throw in an enlarge person and watch him dominate everything within a 30 foot radius.