Brom
2007-12-14, 08:56 PM
I know I'm short a table, anyone wlling to add one is much appreciated.
My Fighter Remake
My goal in all of this:
My goal in all of this is very simple; I want to make fighters something other than a dip class. As it stands, the fighter feels good for a handful of things: A) Getting a few more combat related feats in a quick hurry and a few more hit points to boot. What Wizard wouldn’t mind the ability to gain Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot in two levels, especially with Ray Shooter builds? And what about Weapon Finesse & Two Weapon Fighting? Tack a few more Rogue levels to that and you have a perfect destroy through sneak attack build. The point is, with the proper mixing of easily gained Fighter abilities and ANOTHER classes class features, you can rapidly out utilize a stock Fighter. I have a good example of this; I am a Fighter in a campaign. I am six levels of fighter; I decided I wanted to be the expert marksman. After seven levels, I had every feat I’d ever want for marksmanship. I proceeded to cherry pick two levels of Order of the Bow Initiate for Close Combat Shot, then recently took my first level in Ranger and have decided my next eleven levels are likely going to be in Ranger or Bow Initiate. Rangers add Climb, Move Silently, Hide, Use Rope, and Spot to the skill list; all useful for an archer, who doesn’t need to get close to a target to kill it. That brings me to point B) Prestige classing; a few levels in fighter qualifies you for a variety of prestige classes, and if you dedicate to focus enough, there is NO CAPSTONE that would ever convince you to stay Fighter for 20 levels. The final point is C) The lack of realism; a Barbarian has d12 hit die, trapfinding, uncanny dodge…the list goes on. Why does the Barbarian who can’t even read get trapfinding? If you can’t find the proper phrase in a book, why CAN you find a TRAP in a WALL? It seems outrageous. Also, a Fighter, despite his great training, is likely unable to waste foes as fast as a Barbarian in rage; HE should get the d12 hit die. And why wouldn’t a Fighter be able to do a door to door search? He’s got formalized training. So, what I did with this was add some pedigree and training to the Fighter to represent their skills & experience in combat.
My Request:
As always; critique honestly but give comparisons and supporting arguments. I don’t appreciate, ‘this idea for balance sucks.’ I do, however, appreciate, ‘This idea for balance sucks. No fight is going to last long enough to challenge any of the players; compare hit points of things that will fight the enemy in melee, look at how many such creatures fight the fighter at once, give average damages, and you’ll find this Fighter will destroy them ALL.’
And now, I humbly present you…
FIGHTER
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d12.
Class Skills
The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Perform (Practice Routine), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Table: The Fighter
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Bonus feat
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Bonus feat
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Uncanny Dodge
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Bonus feat
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Improvise Weapon
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Improved Uncanny Dodge
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Bonus feat
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 DR/1-
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Bonus feat
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Always Ready
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 DR/2-
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Bonus feat
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Combative Instinct I
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Bonus feat
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 DR/3-
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Seen Hell Already
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Bonus feat, Combative Instinct II, DR/4-
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the fighter.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
Bonus Feats: At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two fighter levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.
These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A fighter is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats.
Uncanny Dodge: As Barbarian class feature.
Improvise Weapon: The fighter is used to making things that couldn’t quite be described as a weapon. Spears with points tied on by rope, rocks placed in a sack, a chair leg with a screw in it, etc. The Fighter can make entirely new weapons, as well; a hilt with three blades coming out of it, each of different lengths. He no longer takes a -4 for using improvised weapon, and if he practices for 2d6 hours per day for 1d4 days, he can treat any weapon he invents or improvises as if it was a martial weapon of similar type. Fighters often use this for minor advantages that they could not get out of normal versions; IE, a pile of rocks in a bag could be let go of midswing to make rocks fly into the faces of those fighting.
Improved Uncanny Dodge: As Barbarian class feature.
Damage Reduction: At 9th, 13th, 17th, and 20th level, the Fighters extensive experience taking hits, some minor, some severe, has toughed him. He mentally dismisses pain, and his body functions as if not struck at all. He gains a point of accumulating damage reduction at each of the above said levels.
Always Ready: The Fighter has done battle in some of the strangest situations, and never loses armor class even in bad situations, learning to duck, roll, dive, parry, stumble, and otherwise evade attacks that should hit him. He doesn’t lose his armor bonuses even when prone, climbing, swimming, asleep, etc.
Combative Instinct I: The Fighter knows when a foe is most vulnerable, can see it and act on it. Whenever an opponent makes an attack roll and rolls a natural one, the Fighter makes a single attack of opportunity. If it hits, the hit is automatically treated as a critical hit.
Seen Hell Already: The phrase “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” has simply been shortened to “Hell hath no fury” for a veteran fighter; he isn’t staunched by conditions that would affect others drastically. Nonmagical effects that would blind, pain, deafen, kill, slow, paralyze, etc have no effect; you can damage a veteran fighter, but other than putting him down, you cannot put him OUT. Nothing less than death stops a Fighter of this skill.
Combative Instinct II: The Fighter develops a survival instinct which matches up with his aggression instinct. He is no longer subject to attacks of opportunity, as he predicts such assaults before they come and evades them with unerring precision.
My Fighter Remake
My goal in all of this:
My goal in all of this is very simple; I want to make fighters something other than a dip class. As it stands, the fighter feels good for a handful of things: A) Getting a few more combat related feats in a quick hurry and a few more hit points to boot. What Wizard wouldn’t mind the ability to gain Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot in two levels, especially with Ray Shooter builds? And what about Weapon Finesse & Two Weapon Fighting? Tack a few more Rogue levels to that and you have a perfect destroy through sneak attack build. The point is, with the proper mixing of easily gained Fighter abilities and ANOTHER classes class features, you can rapidly out utilize a stock Fighter. I have a good example of this; I am a Fighter in a campaign. I am six levels of fighter; I decided I wanted to be the expert marksman. After seven levels, I had every feat I’d ever want for marksmanship. I proceeded to cherry pick two levels of Order of the Bow Initiate for Close Combat Shot, then recently took my first level in Ranger and have decided my next eleven levels are likely going to be in Ranger or Bow Initiate. Rangers add Climb, Move Silently, Hide, Use Rope, and Spot to the skill list; all useful for an archer, who doesn’t need to get close to a target to kill it. That brings me to point B) Prestige classing; a few levels in fighter qualifies you for a variety of prestige classes, and if you dedicate to focus enough, there is NO CAPSTONE that would ever convince you to stay Fighter for 20 levels. The final point is C) The lack of realism; a Barbarian has d12 hit die, trapfinding, uncanny dodge…the list goes on. Why does the Barbarian who can’t even read get trapfinding? If you can’t find the proper phrase in a book, why CAN you find a TRAP in a WALL? It seems outrageous. Also, a Fighter, despite his great training, is likely unable to waste foes as fast as a Barbarian in rage; HE should get the d12 hit die. And why wouldn’t a Fighter be able to do a door to door search? He’s got formalized training. So, what I did with this was add some pedigree and training to the Fighter to represent their skills & experience in combat.
My Request:
As always; critique honestly but give comparisons and supporting arguments. I don’t appreciate, ‘this idea for balance sucks.’ I do, however, appreciate, ‘This idea for balance sucks. No fight is going to last long enough to challenge any of the players; compare hit points of things that will fight the enemy in melee, look at how many such creatures fight the fighter at once, give average damages, and you’ll find this Fighter will destroy them ALL.’
And now, I humbly present you…
FIGHTER
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d12.
Class Skills
The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Perform (Practice Routine), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Table: The Fighter
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Bonus feat
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Bonus feat
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Uncanny Dodge
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Bonus feat
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Improvise Weapon
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Improved Uncanny Dodge
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Bonus feat
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 DR/1-
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Bonus feat
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Always Ready
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 DR/2-
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Bonus feat
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Combative Instinct I
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Bonus feat
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 DR/3-
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Seen Hell Already
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Bonus feat, Combative Instinct II, DR/4-
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the fighter.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
Bonus Feats: At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two fighter levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.
These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A fighter is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats.
Uncanny Dodge: As Barbarian class feature.
Improvise Weapon: The fighter is used to making things that couldn’t quite be described as a weapon. Spears with points tied on by rope, rocks placed in a sack, a chair leg with a screw in it, etc. The Fighter can make entirely new weapons, as well; a hilt with three blades coming out of it, each of different lengths. He no longer takes a -4 for using improvised weapon, and if he practices for 2d6 hours per day for 1d4 days, he can treat any weapon he invents or improvises as if it was a martial weapon of similar type. Fighters often use this for minor advantages that they could not get out of normal versions; IE, a pile of rocks in a bag could be let go of midswing to make rocks fly into the faces of those fighting.
Improved Uncanny Dodge: As Barbarian class feature.
Damage Reduction: At 9th, 13th, 17th, and 20th level, the Fighters extensive experience taking hits, some minor, some severe, has toughed him. He mentally dismisses pain, and his body functions as if not struck at all. He gains a point of accumulating damage reduction at each of the above said levels.
Always Ready: The Fighter has done battle in some of the strangest situations, and never loses armor class even in bad situations, learning to duck, roll, dive, parry, stumble, and otherwise evade attacks that should hit him. He doesn’t lose his armor bonuses even when prone, climbing, swimming, asleep, etc.
Combative Instinct I: The Fighter knows when a foe is most vulnerable, can see it and act on it. Whenever an opponent makes an attack roll and rolls a natural one, the Fighter makes a single attack of opportunity. If it hits, the hit is automatically treated as a critical hit.
Seen Hell Already: The phrase “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” has simply been shortened to “Hell hath no fury” for a veteran fighter; he isn’t staunched by conditions that would affect others drastically. Nonmagical effects that would blind, pain, deafen, kill, slow, paralyze, etc have no effect; you can damage a veteran fighter, but other than putting him down, you cannot put him OUT. Nothing less than death stops a Fighter of this skill.
Combative Instinct II: The Fighter develops a survival instinct which matches up with his aggression instinct. He is no longer subject to attacks of opportunity, as he predicts such assaults before they come and evades them with unerring precision.