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View Full Version : What happens to 3.5 when 4e comes out



ALOR
2007-12-18, 09:22 AM
So I have heard nothing I personally like about 4e and i'm really not looking forward to it. I'm just curious as to what happens to 3.5 when 4e comes out with regardes to the open gaming license.
Does the OGL expire?
Has any independent company said wether they will still produce 3.5 material?
From a buisness stanpoint it would make sense for WotC to revoke the OGL and have all the independent companies support there new system. I'm just praying thats not the case so mew material will still be produced.

thank in advance

Mr. Friendly
2007-12-18, 09:34 AM
So I have heard nothing I personally like about 4e and i'm really not looking forward to it. I'm just curious as to what happens to 3.5 when 4e comes out with regardes to the open gaming license.
Does the OGL expire?
Has any independent company said wether they will still produce 3.5 material?
From a buisness stanpoint it would make sense for WotC to revoke the OGL and have all the independent companies support there new system. I'm just praying thats not the case so mew material will still be produced.

thank in advance

I think when 4e comes out, the same thing that happened to 1e when 2e came out will happen. The same thing that happened to 2e when 3e came out, etc. etc.

Valairn
2007-12-18, 09:36 AM
The OGL is unlikely to expire, being that the nature of open licenses make it difficult to make them disappear. As far as wizards is concerned, they really don't need to close the OGL to get people to jump on board, the nature of the market will drive the other companies to use the new material anyway, since most people will just upgrade by default.

Seeing as that I've never used the fluff provided by WoTC, I have no problem upgrading to 4th edition IF its mechanics are better, which I will only be able to tell when its actually released, and right now is a really bad time to try and see if you will like the new version considering that all of the "information" released is pretty much entirely fluff, with mechanical tidbits of no real substance.

Wait till it comes out and you can read it in a bookstore, to make a call on that matter, since the end result is always different than "hype-land reality distortion" perceptions.

Ralfarius
2007-12-18, 09:37 AM
They stop printing the previous edition, part of the fanbase feels betrayed and refuses to buy into the new edition, while everyone else picks up the books and starts learning the new rules. Pretty standard stuff, really.

Duke of URL
2007-12-18, 09:43 AM
So I have heard nothing I personally like about 4e and i'm really not looking forward to it. I'm just curious as to what happens to 3.5 when 4e comes out with regardes to the open gaming license.
Does the OGL expire?
Has any independent company said wether they will still produce 3.5 material?
From a buisness stanpoint it would make sense for WotC to revoke the OGL and have all the independent companies support there new system. I'm just praying thats not the case so mew material will still be produced.

thank in advance

You can't "revoke" a license like that. If you want it to expire, it needs to be in the original license. For better or for worse, once released under OGL, it remains out there forever.

I can also think of at least one game development company (hint: see signature) that has a pipeline of upcoming releases that are scheduled to be for 3.5, regardless of the upcoming 4.0 release.

Matthew
2007-12-18, 09:50 AM
Indeed. If it were possible to revoke the license somehow many, many companies with OGL Games would be affected, such as True20, Castles & Crusades, etc... Many people are expecting some legal trick, but it's hard to see what that might be. More probably, Wizards will simply rely on their brand strength, which has been shown to be considerable, and company resources to continue to dominate the market.

ALOR
2007-12-18, 09:54 AM
I think when 4e comes out, the same thing that happened to 1e when 2e came out will happen. The same thing that happened to 2e when 3e came out, etc. etc.

well it won't be exactly the same becasue 1e and 2e didn't have the OGL which is supported by independent companies. 1e and 2e were totally suported by TSR and the internet was nonexsistent/in it infancy so there was no real way to keep suporting 1e/2e

To Valarin: I know that we havn't been able to see the whole rules set yet, but from everythign i've heard (ie. some of the games mechanics will be based of SW saga and Bo9S) plus the fluff related stuff plus the fact that I would have to buy all new books makes me believe strongly I will not like it.

hamlet
2007-12-18, 09:58 AM
Indeed. If it were possible to revoke the license somehow many, many companies with OGL Games would be affected, such as True20, Castles & Crusades, etc... Many people are expecting some legal trick, but it's hard to see what that might be. More probably, Wizards will simply rely on their brand strength, which has been shown to be considerable, and company resources to continue to dominate the market.

I'm not putting it past WOTC, though, to try something.

It's in their best interests to quash older editions and I bet somebody at Hasbro has a plan for attempting to do so.

Granted, they can't make OGL dissapear, but they can probably do something that'll make it tougher to produce viable OGL content for profit.

Lady Tialait
2007-12-18, 10:00 AM
WotC could possible kill itself on the OGL point, if they decide to not put 4e on the OGL they will be flooded with 3.x companies and possibly go the way of TSR it's tricky, if they make 4e OGL then we can assume that all the publishing companies will upgrade after a cupple years or so and 3.x will be lost. BUT not putting 4e under the OGL will really mess them up. and perhaps we won't have to hear about any 4e stuff ever again...mind you...I hope not. I like WotC even tho I don't like some of their past works....coughcoughkamigawacoughcoughToBcoughcough incarnumcoughcough

over all they have been sound and have really good busness sense. unlike..some peaple coughcoughgygaxcoughcoughTSRcoughcough

ALOR
2007-12-18, 10:03 AM
You can't "revoke" a license like that. If you want it to expire, it needs to be in the original license. For better or for worse, once released under OGL, it remains out there forever.

I can also think of at least one game development company (hint: see signature) that has a pipeline of upcoming releases that are scheduled to be for 3.5, regardless of the upcoming 4.0 release.

I wasn't sure if you could revoke it or not. I would think there will still be a small market for an independent company making 3.5 material. Thanks for the info.

Valairn
2007-12-18, 10:53 AM
To Valarin: I know that we havn't been able to see the whole rules set yet, but from everythign i've heard (ie. some of the games mechanics will be based of SW saga and Bo9S) plus the fluff related stuff plus the fact that I would have to buy all new books makes me believe strongly I will not like it.

Hrm... considering I like the mechanics of Bo9S (even if the fluff is lame as donkey droppings) I have trouble relating to that point.

ALOR
2007-12-18, 11:05 AM
Hrm... considering I like the mechanics of Bo9S (even if the fluff is lame as donkey droppings) I have trouble relating to that point.

Oh I realize I'm in the minority in that matter. I also don't mind wizards and clerics being more powerful than the other classes (and I don't usally play either).

Valairn
2007-12-18, 11:14 AM
I don't really care too much about class balance in regards to "real ultimate power" type balance, i just think that you shouldn't be able to replace an entire class with a single a spell, cough "divine power" cough.

CrazedGoblin
2007-12-18, 11:22 AM
well, we all grab pitchforks and torches run screaming to WOTC demanding they kill and slaughter 4E, then...oh wait


im just going to play 3.5 i know my group are going to, i don't want to buy any more books, but i might buy some more 3.5s before they stop printing them.

Mr. Friendly
2007-12-18, 11:24 AM
I don't really care too much about class balance in regards to "real ultimate power" type balance, i just think that you shouldn't be able to replace an entire class with a single a spell, cough "divine power" cough.

Replace One entire class? With a Party consisting of 3 Clerics and a Wizard, I doubt you would need any other classes.

Cleric (Rogue) - Find Traps / Find the Path
Cleric (Fighter) - Divine Power e.g.
Wizard (Wizard) OR Wizard (Fighter) - Tenser's Transformation
Cleric (Cleric) OR Cleric (Wizard) - Magic Domain, other domains

Valairn
2007-12-18, 11:27 AM
Mr. Friendly I was making a generalized point. One spell replacing an entire class is really really dumb, I know its not the only example, but for brevity just one example was enough, discussing the myriads of really stupid things in 3.5 would take more time than is necessary and fill up about 100 forum pages. If not more.

ALOR
2007-12-18, 11:28 AM
Replace One entire class? With a Party consisting of 3 Clerics and a Wizard, I doubt you would need any other classes.

Cleric (Rogue) - Find Traps / Find the Path
Cleric (Fighter) - Divine Power e.g.
Wizard (Wizard) OR Wizard (Fighter) - Tenser's Transformation
Cleric (Cleric) OR Cleric (Wizard) - Magic Domain, other domains

I've been through this before in other threads so I really don't want to get into it here. Suffice to say I do not share your or most of the boards view on the uselessness of the other classes.

AKA_Bait
2007-12-18, 11:31 AM
I'm not putting it past WOTC, though, to try something.

It's in their best interests to quash older editions and I bet somebody at Hasbro has a plan for attempting to do so.

Granted, they can't make OGL dissapear, but they can probably do something that'll make it tougher to produce viable OGL content for profit.

Oh believe me, they almost certianly will if they don't make 4e OGL. Which, really, is why I suspect that the will just make 4e OGL around a year or so after the intial release. They will annouce it around a month or two after release and then be 'preparing' and 'deciding on what material to release' for around 9 -12 months after that. At least, if I were in their marketing/product control departments that's how I would do it.

They could try to kill 3e and not make 4e ogl but I really doubt it. The SRD and OGL is one of the biggest factors in the large sucess of 3.x. Not only does it allow fans to spread the game easily for them (and hence get a wider audience) it creates a pool of potential developers who will create material for you without having to pay them (homebrewers). I'm sure WotC realizes this. There will be an SRD for it, after the initial flood of purchases of the core books.

Getting back to the OP: what becomes of 3.x after that really hinges upon how good 4e is. Both mechanically and 'fun' wise. If it's a better system, easy to run, easy to learn, and fun, then 3.x will go the way of the Dodo, and if 4e really is a better system it should. I'm not so sure 4e will, especially as a result of all of the homebrewed and outside material support for 3.x but time will tell.


I can also think of at least one game development company (hint: see signature) that has a pipeline of upcoming releases that are scheduled to be for 3.5, regardless of the upcoming 4.0 release.

What shameless self promotion! We at VP needn't engage in such base plugging. Seriously, folks, don't click through the links. Really. There aren't awesome previews of what's to come or anything. :smallwink:

Valairn
2007-12-18, 11:36 AM
I'm just gonna come out and say it. I play fighter types more than I play wizard types, and when I do play wizard types its almost always some gish-mash of multi-class nightmares. So my preference is definitely in the same direction. I think what wizards is doing with their new edition is right from a game design stand point, even if it isn't great from a fluff standpoint. But like I said before, I care about mechanics, fluff is a DM thing. I think the books that have come out recently from Wizards are great examples of strong mechanics, which is what is important to me.

Fluff and who is greater than who is not my concern in the slightest, it takes not but 5 minutes to make a class better than another class if you want it to be that way, but the basic system should have strong balance. A strongly balanced system is much easier to tailor, IMHO.

Fax Celestis
2007-12-18, 11:39 AM
Oh believe me, they almost certianly will if they don't make 4e OGL. Which, really, is why I suspect that the will just make 4e OGL around a year or so after the intial release. They will annouce it around a month or two after release and then be 'preparing' and 'deciding on what material to release' for around 9 -12 months after that. At least, if I were in their marketing/product control departments that's how I would do it.

They could try to kill 3e and not make 4e ogl but I really doubt it. The SRD and OGL is one of the biggest factors in the large sucess of 3.x. Not only does it allow fans to spread the game easily for them (and hence get a wider audience) it creates a pool of potential developers who will create material for you without having to pay them (homebrewers). I'm sure WotC realizes this. There will be an SRD for it, after the initial flood of purchases of the core books.

We have received confirmation that 4e will be under the OGL, but it wil fetaure a new d20 System Liscence. 3.x will also remain under the OGL, as it is unrevocable.

AKA_Bait
2007-12-18, 11:43 AM
We have received confirmation that 4e will be under the OGL, but it wil fetaure a new d20 System Liscence. 3.x will also remain under the OGL, as it is unrevocable.

Oh good. Another legal document for me to read extremely closely when the time comes. :-)