PDA

View Full Version : Vorlons v.s Ancients



DarthArminius
2007-12-18, 04:22 PM
The Ancients in StarGate, v.s the Vorlons in Babylon 5. Before you say the Vorlons win, consider that the Ancients built powerful time control machines, and can travel across the other side of the Galaxy with their seemingly indestructible Star Gates.

Before you say that the Ancients win, consider the fact that the Vorlons can move their entire population and civilization to another side of the Galaxy.

stm177
2007-12-18, 10:19 PM
The Vorlons can be talked to death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TalkingTheMonsterToDeath) so the Ancients win.

warty goblin
2007-12-18, 11:04 PM
Well, the vorlons literally can't lose to the Ancients. All the vorlons need to do is to build and open a door to Thirdspace, and the space Nazis on crack destroy the entire universe. Its what's known as a Pyrric victory.

On a more practical note, I know nothing about the ancients, but I'd be darn impressed by anything that could beat the vorlons in a fight.

WarriorTribble
2007-12-18, 11:15 PM
The Vorlons can be talked to death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TalkingTheMonsterToDeath) so the Ancients win.I'm guessing things like "you're bad role models so leave us along" isn't applicable here...

Hmm... I'm going to give this fight to the Vorlons. I think the tech for both races is more or less equal in terms of destructive ablities, but the Ancients as far as I know have no defenses against telepathic attacks which the Vorlons excell at. That'll probably give the Vorlons the edge they need to win this conflict.

DarthArminius
2007-12-18, 11:18 PM
Do the Vorlons have defenses against time attacks?

Nerd-o-rama
2007-12-18, 11:19 PM
I'm guessing things like "you're bad role models so leave us along" isn't applicable here...
I dunno. The Ancients are really good at monotonous soliloquy. Acting together, they might manage to bore to Vorlons to death.

However, I think the Vorlons would win considering that, today, the Ancients don't actually do anything, and in fact seem to spend most of their energy actively preventing each other from doing anything. One of them (Oma, Merlin, Morgan) might manipulate SG-1 into stopping the Vorlons, but it'd take ages.

Now, the Ori, on the other hand...

WarriorTribble
2007-12-18, 11:35 PM
I dunno. The Ancients are really good at monotonous soliloquy. Acting together, they might manage to bore to Vorlons to death.

However, I think the Vorlons would win considering that, today, the Ancients don't actually do anything, and in fact seem to spend most of their energy actively preventing each other from doing anything. One of them (Oma, Merlin, Morgan) might manipulate SG-1 into stopping the Vorlons, but it'd take ages.Oh good gods. Vorlon vs. Ancient: who's more obtuse? Lol

You make me wonder though, are we discussing the Ancients before they ascended or after (I was arguing for the pre-ascended)? I mean the ascended ancients wiped out a planet's population "barehanded" while Vorlons need technology for genocide... But, then again if all they actually do is contact SG1 and allies, they're simply screwed. Vorlon are like an even more advanced version of the Asgard, minus the near extinction, with far more aggression.

Burrito
2007-12-18, 11:36 PM
Hmm, not sure since in B5, the Shadows were doing a pretty good job of, if not beating, then fighting even with, the Vorlons. Also, the Vorlons and Shadows were not the most ancient of races in B5. They were both invited to join with the eldest races at the end of the series. There was the giant computer planet thing, the giant floating stone face thing, and uhhhh, I can't think of the others since it has been like 8 years since I last watched through the whole series.

In B5, the Vorlons and Shadows were VERY powerful, but a lot of their power was from how well they could manipulate and control the other races and get them to do their dirty work. Yeah, I know they had their planet destroying ships, but who doesn't.

BlackStaticWolf
2007-12-18, 11:47 PM
On a more practical note, I know nothing about the ancients, but I'd be darn impressed by anything that could beat the vorlons in a fight.

The Shadows seemed to give them a run for their money. But considering that they were talked to death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TalkingTheMonsterToDeath) by the same speech... I guess they don't really count.

WarriorTribble
2007-12-18, 11:49 PM
Hmm, not sure since in B5, the Shadows were doing a pretty good job of, if not beating, then fighting even with, the Vorlons. Also, the Vorlons and Shadows were not the most ancient of races in B5. They were both invited to join with the eldest races at the end of the series. There was the giant computer planet thing, the giant floating stone face thing, and uhhhh, I can't think of the others since it has been like 8 years since I last watched through the whole series.Well... no they're not the most ancient, but they are considered amongst the first group of races to reach sentience, and so far we only know one race is definitely older than them.
In B5, the Vorlons and Shadows were VERY powerful, but a lot of their power was from how well they could manipulate and control the other races and get them to do their dirty work. Yeah, I know they had their planet destroying ships, but who doesn't.From what I remember, the Vorlons and Shadows only manipulated the other races, in order to decide whose philosophy was better. When they decided to directly start fighting each other neither side used the younger races.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-12-19, 12:16 AM
But, then again if all they actually do is contact SG1 and allies, they're simply screwed. Vorlon are like an even more advanced version of the Asgard, minus the near extinction, with far more aggression.
So clearly, they need the Jack O'Neill version of SG-1.

lipe44
2007-12-19, 09:18 AM
So we are taking the Ancients after or before they ascended?

DarthArminius
2007-12-19, 12:54 PM
Before. They could fight the Q by their Ascended selves.

WarriorTribble
2007-12-19, 09:12 PM
So clearly, they need the Jack O'Neill version of SG-1.Not understanding your view... I'm not too familiar with the SG series.

TheElfLord
2007-12-20, 12:38 AM
Not understanding your view... I'm not too familiar with the SG series.

Well first Jack O'Neall is a BAMF and any team with him on it in the Stargate Universe would be better than lacking him. (The SG-1 team make up changes over the years)

And Secondly Jack is a hero to the Asgard for both his actions and his genetics, which is why I think the poster said to use his team to deal with aliens who are like the Asgard.

kpenguin
2007-12-20, 01:28 AM
Meh. I think Daniel is more important to the team than Jack.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-12-20, 01:34 AM
In that his replacement was more boring than Jack's, yes. But when it comes to combat against a vastly superior enemy such as the Vorlons or Ori/Ancients, I'll take MacGyver over John Crichton.

BlackStaticWolf
2007-12-20, 03:15 AM
Oh good gods. Vorlon vs. Ancient: who's more obtuse? Lol

Do you know how a Vorlon would answer this question?

"Irrelevant."

warty goblin
2007-12-20, 10:43 AM
Do you know how a Vorlon would answer this question?

"Irrelevant."

Or possibly "No."

GryffonDurime
2007-12-21, 12:35 AM
I don't know a great deal about the Vorlons, but I'd throw my lot in with the Alterans...the Ancients filled an entire galaxy with human life, created self-correcting worm hole networks throughout at least three different galaxies (Milky Way, Pegasus, Ida), had systems capable of nearly infinite energy generation, developed a host of psychic powers when they teetered on the edge of ascension, had warships that ranked among the finest of the finest in a racial alliance full of crazily good warships...one of them even figured out a weapon that could destroy ascended beings. Slaying an entire galaxy's Q Continuum with a bauble is pretty impressive.

Oh, and if the synopsis for Ark of Truth is to be believed? They had a technology that allowed the to brainwash entire galaxies. .

Hylleddin
2007-12-21, 12:56 AM
Vorlons Vs. Ancients

Well, I'm not all that familiar with Babylon 5, but I'd say the Ancients lose by default because of their non-interference policy. Even the threat of the Ori didn't cause them to break it. If they ignore it, I'm not really sure, but their almost on par with Q, like was said earlier.

If we're talking about pre ascended ancients, I'm not sure. They did move most of their Pegasus population to another galaxy, but they only had about a city's worth of people left.

The Wraith were able to beat them with shear numbers even with a tech disadvantage, so if the Vorlon are large enough, I'd say they would win easily.

TheRiov
2007-12-21, 08:17 AM
Vorlons may have planet killers but didn't the ancients create weapons to destroy all replicators in the galaxy and another to destroy all ascended life in a galaxy. Vorlons did have some time manipulation ability though

lipe44
2007-12-21, 10:03 AM
Vorlons may have planet killers but didn't the ancients create weapons to destroy all replicators in the galaxy and another to destroy all ascended life in a galaxy. Vorlons did have some time manipulation ability though

Not especifically replicators... It could be used to destroy all life in galaxy, you just needed to adjust...

About time travel, please dont consider it as its just crazy...

Emperor Tippy
2007-12-21, 02:12 PM
Post Ascension the Ancients win, its no contest at all.

Pre-Ascension the Ancients win if they stop playing like idiots.

WarriorTribble
2007-12-21, 08:14 PM
Vorlons may have planet killers but didn't the ancients create weapons to destroy all replicators in the galaxy and another to destroy all ascended life in a galaxy. Vorlons did have some time manipulation ability thoughIf memory serves Adria managed to survive the Dakara super weapon due to a personal shield, and Vorlon ships do come equiped with energy shields (well we don't know for sure, but the White Stars did, and they're inferior ships based off Vorlon tech). Not to mention since the Vorlons are... semi ascended for lack of better term (hybrid energy/matter beings) I'm not sure how such a weapon would effect them.

I still say Vorlons win due to telepathic ablities. I mean a human telepath that was enhanced by the Vorlons managed to control all the members of an entire space station without breaking a sweat. They can probably do far worse...
I don't know a great deal about the Vorlons, but I'd throw my lot in with the Alterans...the Ancients filled an entire galaxy with human life, created self-correcting worm hole networks throughout at least three different galaxies (Milky Way, Pegasus, Ida), had systems capable of nearly infinite energy generation, developed a host of psychic powers when they teetered on the edge of ascension, had warships that ranked among the finest of the finest in a racial alliance full of crazily good warships...one of them even figured out a weapon that could destroy ascended beings. Slaying an entire galaxy's Q Continuum with a bauble is pretty impressive.

Oh, and if the synopsis for Ark of Truth is to be believed? They had a technology that allowed the to brainwash entire galaxies. .The Vorlons pretty much did/are capable everything you mentioned except create a ascended being killer. Course, that was made by an ascended being so it really shouldn't count, cause we all agree post-ascended ancients will beat the Vorlons.

On a trivial note, the Q aren't just beings of pure energy, they're onipotent. The only way to kill one is to either convince it to commit suicide, or use a Q weapon designed to kill Q.