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RandomFellow
2007-12-18, 09:05 PM
The Northern Shamans are the religious clergy of the Orcs of Noram. All Northern Shamans are either Orcs or Half-Orcs. Their spellcasting power comes through channeling spirits rather than divine assistance and as such a Shaman's endurance determines his (or her) power.

Table: The Northern Shaman
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|0|2|0|0|Spirit Mage, 1st Level spells
2nd|1|3|0|0|
3rd|1|3|1|1|2nd Level Spells
4th|2|4|1|1|Otherworldly Endurance 1/day
5th|2|4|1|1|3rd Level Spells
6th|3|5|2|2|Spirit Link
7th|3|5|2|2|Otherworldly Endurance 2/day
8th|4|6|2|2|4th Level Spells
9th|4|6|3|3|
10th|5|7|3|3|5th Level Spells, Otherworldly Endurance 3/day
11th|5|7|3|3|Extra Domain
12th|6/1|8|4|4|6th Level Spells
13th|6/1|8|4|4|Otherworldly Endurance 4/day
14th|7/2|9|4|4|7th Level Spells
15th|7/2|9|5|5|
16th|8/3|10|5|5|Otherworldly Endurance 5/day
17th|8/3|10|5|5|8th Level Spells
18th|9/4|11|6|6|Spirit Link, Greater
19th|9/4|11|6|6|9th Level Spells, Otherworldly Endurance 6/day
20th|10/5|12|6|6|Spirit Mastery
[/table]

Alignment
Any.

Hit Die
d4.

Class Skills
Spot (Wis), Listen (Wis), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Concentration (Con)

Skill Points at 1st Level
(2 + Int modifier) ◊ 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
2 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Northern Shaman.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
All simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with the casterís gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spirit Mage
At 1st level the Northern Shaman is chosen by his spirit guide although he does have control over which Sphere that guide is from. Such guides are always within one step (e.g. a LE shaman could have a NE guide or a LN guide but not a CE or True Neutral guide) of the Shaman's alignment. If the Shaman changes alignment, he loses his old spirit guide and gains a new one.

A Spirit Mage has a caster level for his Spirit mage spells equal to his Spirit Mage levels plus two.

Every time a Spirit Mage casts a spell he becomes fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the spell's level reduced by a third (rounded down) of his constitution modifier (min. 0). (e.g. A Spirit Mage with a con of 18 casts a first level spell would be fatigued for 1 round. The same Spirit Mage casts a second level spell would be fatigued for 2 rounds.) No ability of any kind can prevent this fatigue as it is of a spiritual nature.

A Spirit Mage may cast any number of spells per day from the two domain spell lists granted by his Spirit Guide. The spell DC is equal to 10+Spell Level+Constitution Modifier. A Spirit Guide must have a constitution modifier equal to at least equal to a spell's level-1 to be able to cast it. (e.g. To cast a 5th level spell, a Spirit Guide needs a modifier of +4) In addition, he cannot be fatigued.

Table: Spirit Guides
{table=head]Alignment|Sphere|Areas of Access
LE|Tyranny|Tyranny Domain, Domination Domain
LE|Undeath|Undeath Domain, Suffering Domain
NE|Evil|Evil Domain, Hatred Domain
CE|Madness|Madness Domain, Wrath Domain
CE|Greed|Greed Domain, Gluttony Domain
LN|Water|Water Domain, Ocean Domain
LN|Earth|Earth Domain, Cavern Domain
LN|Law|Law Domain, Balance Domain
NN|Balance|Balance Domain, Healing Domain
CN|Wind|Air Domain, Storm Domain
CN|Fire|Fire Domain, Chaos Domain
CN|Chaos| Chaos Domain, Balance Domain
LG|Righteous|Nobility Domain, Glory Domain
LG|Justice|Mind Domain, Law Domain
NG|Good|Good Domain, Healing Domain
CG|Freedom|Liberation Domain, Spell Domain
CG|Passion|Courage Domain, Good Domain
[/table]

Additional spirit guide types may created by picking a sphere, a similar alignment, and then a pair of similarly themed domains.

Otherworldly Endurance (Su)
A Northern Shaman, up to a number of timers per day indicated on Table: The Northern Shaman, may draw upon the strength of his spirit guide to increase his endurance. The shaman gains a bonus a sacred bonus of +6 to his constitution score for one round per Northern Shaman level. This bonus creates a pool of temporary HP equal to 3 times HD. (e.g. A 4th level half-orc shaman would gain 12 temp HP.)

Activating this ability constitutes a full round action.

Spirit Link
Once the Shaman has mastered drawing on his Spirit Guide to enhance his own endurance beyond that of mortal men, the Shaman retains a small measure of that power at all times. The Northern Shaman receives a permanent +2 bonus to his Constitution Score.

In addition, the strengthened bond heightens the Shamans senses granting him a +2 sacred bonus to Listen and Spot checks.

Extra Domain
The Shaman has learned to call on a single spirit other than his spirit guide for aid. He adds an additional domain to his spell list.

Spirit Link, Greater (Su)
The bonuses from Spirit Link are increased from +2 to +4.

Spirit Mastery
The Shaman has mastered the art of calling on spirits, other than his own spirit guide, for assistance. At the Dawn and Dusk of each day, the Shaman selects two domains. For the next twelve hours he may cast spells from those domain lists as if they were from any of his three normal domains.

Vadin
2007-12-19, 01:06 PM
Quick question: do your players often have the requisite 38 CON (a +9 bonus) to cast 7th level spells? If so, you might want to look into their stat sheets...seems a bit fishy to me. Also, no capstone ability and rather empty looking. In addition, having a base caster level of three times the spell is more than a little bit unrealistic, considering his base caster level (and all other casters') is just his class level. To cast 1st level spells, his only ability until level 4, he'd have to be level three. For 2nd level spells, he'd have to be level 6, and so on and so forth up until he needs to be epic (level 21) to use his seventh level spells.

On the whole, I'd say the spellcasting is the only problem (and the only ability) with this class. The spells are fine (though lacking in any amount of choice), but the requirements for casting are currently unworkable if players ever want to be able to do anything.

RandomFellow
2007-12-19, 01:55 PM
No longer valid ^.^

XtheYeti
2007-12-19, 02:08 PM
im going to try to be as positive as i can so my head remains attached to my shoulders. The class is hard to evaluate without it being complete. Basicaly to properly tell you what we think we need to see this fully fleshed out, because right now, this class is so underpowered i would feel confident going against it with a adept of equal level. You can only cast every other round at best, you are so limited in what spells you can cast that a ranger laughs at you. and you have no class abilities to make me want to play this...so much for being positive. If this class got some powers and more castable spells. then i think you could have a pretty great casting class here. I like that you are trying to show a norse-ish caster, but he has next to no power. What i see before me is a hyper under powered and frankly beat down wizard who cast spells out of only 2 cleric domains...more power please.

RandomFellow
2007-12-19, 02:16 PM
im going to try to be as positive as i can so my head remains attached to my shoulders. The class is hard to evaluate without it being complete. Basicaly to properly tell you what we think we need to see this fully fleshed out, because right now, this class is so underpowered i would feel confident going against it with a adept of equal level. You can only cast every other round at best, you are so limited in what spells you can cast that a ranger laughs at you. and you have no class abilities to make me want to play this...so much for being positive. If this class got some powers and more castable spells. then i think you could have a pretty great casting class here. I like that you are trying to show a norse-ish caster, but he has next to no power. What i see before me is a hyper under powered and frankly beat down wizard who cast spells out of only 2 cleric domains...more power please.

I was just worried people would say at will 7th level spells, etc. was overpowered. =) I'll add the class features tonight. And maybe I'll drop the casting rate to 1/3rd con mod.

As for the previous post...pointing out problems with no basis in reality isn't helpful. It is alot like saying 'a nuclear weapon is about to go off' when none is. It serves no useful purpose.

Vadin
2007-12-19, 02:32 PM
1) I totally meant 28...:smalltongue:
2) A class shouldn't require you to begin with the highest possible score, devote every bonus stat point from leveling to one stat, and have a maxed out magic item simply to access its own intrinsic abilities. This may sound like I'm saying wizards and their ilk shouldn't have stat requirements to cast spells, but theirs are far less demanding. As it stands, its in a position similar to that of the truenamer, who requires a feat, bonuses from his class abilities, and several magic items to simply be adequate.
3) I know you were planning to add the class features, I was saying the class was empty without them and throwing them in certainly wouldn't hurt (unless said class features are terribly overpowered or something).
4) You said his base caster level (unmodified by anything else: his levels in the class), not his effective caster level (his base caster level and any additional bonuses or penalties he applies). Why not just get rid of the 'caster level must be three times the spell level' and just give them new spell levels at regular intervals (like you already have it, just without the confusing wording). You can even keep that they cast at +2 caster level if you like.
5) No need to be so confrontational. You asked for feedback, and I presented opinions and a few things to back them up. We don't need to start claiming others don't understand the game or didn't read the whole post when its more likely there was simply a slight miscommunication involved. "Ask before attack," a wonderful mantra.

RandomFellow
2007-12-19, 02:39 PM
1) I totally meant 28...:smalltongue:

Ok. =)



2) A class shouldn't require you to begin with the highest possible score,
devote every bonus stat point from leveling to one stat, and have a maxed out magic item simply to access its own intrinsic abilities. This may sound like I'm saying wizards and their ilk shouldn't have stat requirements to cast spells, but theirs are far less demanding. As it stands, its in a position similar to that of the truenamer, who requires a feat, bonuses from his class abilities, and several magic items to simply be adequate.

The entire purpose is to force them to maximize constitution. =) But I'll adjust it.



3) I know you were planning to add the class features, I was saying the class was empty without them and throwing them in certainly wouldn't hurt (unless said class features are terribly overpowered or something).

As I said in the last post, I was concerned 7th level spells at will would be viewed as 'over powered'. If I recall correctly, Warlock's invocations cap out around the equivalent of a 6th level spell.



4) You said his base caster level (unmodified by anything else: his levels in the class), not his effective caster level (his base caster level and any additional bonuses or penalties he applies). Why not just get rid of the 'caster level must be three times the spell level' and just give them new spell levels at regular intervals (like you already have it, just without the confusing wording). You can even keep that they cast at +2 caster level if you like.
By base I meant items, feats, etc. Bu I'll change it.



5) ....

But attacking is SO much more fun! :smallbiggrin:

RandomFellow
2007-12-19, 02:45 PM
K, removed CL requirement reduced Con requirement by 3.

Reduced fatigue limit. So a +9 can cast a 3rd level spell every round. 4th level every other round, etc.

P.S.
I'm a fan of narrow classes that force a certain degree of optimization for that class.

Vadin
2007-12-19, 04:17 PM
On the topic of the warlock and his invocations, its generally agreed that everyone's favorite demonspawn is a relatively weak class (not a statement meant to spark a debate, its just so very far below normal casters in terms of mid- to end-game power and the advancement of its abilities is wonky at best).

Charlie Kemek
2007-12-19, 04:23 PM
warlocks can cast up to 9th level invocations

RandomFellow
2007-12-19, 09:03 PM
I'll adjust accordingly then and give them up to 9th level spells by level 20.

RandomFellow
2007-12-20, 05:57 PM
*bump*

In other news...it is clear posting classes, etc. in individual threads is more conducive to getting feedback. When compared to a single thread with tons of stuff.

So expect much post whoring since it appears it is necessary.