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Lilly
2005-09-01, 12:04 AM
Rabbit, rabbit, rabbit! New month, new thread, new discussion.

Winged One
2005-09-01, 12:12 AM
And new comic when The Giant gets around to it. Not that I can't wait.

AtomicKitKat
2005-09-01, 02:20 AM
Unless 215 is Wednesday's script, I'm worried about Giant, board time is now 2 am Thursday morning. :o

Elethiomel
2005-09-01, 05:02 AM
Unless 215 is Wednesday's script, I'm worried about Giant, board time is now 2 am Thursday morning. :o

See this post (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1122880883 ;start=660#673) (second to last on the page).

RebelRogue
2005-09-01, 05:53 AM
Think of it this way: Hopefully, now you get a dose of OotS for two days in a row :)

Oh, and as someone noticed in the old thread, I really hope the reason is, that Rich is busy enjoying life rather than having another stroke of bad luck :)

Ilaun_Undil
2005-09-01, 07:39 AM
I second that notion. Comic writers should be excused from all bad luck, but then agian, that could make the comic less interresting. either way, it is better to not lose a beloved comic before his/her time. (just trying to be politically correct)

crazymoose
2005-09-01, 09:18 AM
Yep.. definatly agree... although.. I do wish the comic were up! Wahhh!!! :'(

Its more addictive than tomacco. :)

Aeek
2005-09-01, 10:03 AM
Its Friday and I'm still waiting for Wednesday's comic.
OK, I know you're living in the past, kiwis excepted.

Olivine
2005-09-01, 10:21 AM
I wonder how Haley will feel about Miko's battle plan? I'm guessing that since Miko won't want any of the loot, Haley will be thinking that she's got a pretty good thing going here. But maybe she'll be annoyed at Miko for not establishing the plan? Or annoyed at Miko for p'ssing off Roy? Then again, maybe she'll like Miko _better_ for that. Hmmmm.....
:-/
~Olivine
(specializing in idle speculation)

Malachi, the Lich King
2005-09-01, 10:36 AM
*I'm guessing that since Miko won't want any of the loot, Haley will be thinking that she's got a pretty good thing going here. *

Why wouldn't Miko want a share? *She might not and probably wouldn't keep it but that doesn't mean she wouldn't insist on a fair share. *Paladins tithe to the appropriate institutions and must maintain equipment and such. *Miko most likely would give about half of her share to her lord or to the temple/charity/whatever. *The rest would go to maintenance, training, new equipment, etc. *

Mercutio01
2005-09-01, 10:41 AM
As a matter of fact, most paladins will insist on receiving their fair share. Just because they're good doesn't mean they're going to give up their loot. Yeah, they have to tithe a bunch, but you can't tithe what you don't have.

Starla
2005-09-01, 10:45 AM
Now that we have a better idea of what Roy's personal ad would say I wonder what Miko's would say. Probably looking for someone who is honorable and is solely interested in smiting evil (not bumping uglies) relationship must remain plutonic in the interest for the greater good?

Olivine
2005-09-01, 10:56 AM
*Paladins tithe to the appropriate institutions and must maintain equipment and such. *Miko most likely would give about half of her share to her lord or to the temple/charity/whatever. *The rest would go to maintenance, training, new equipment, etc. *

Sorry, I'm sure you're right, perhaps I was thinking of Monks? I was remembering Miko's "Filthy lucre" comment, but I didn't remember all of it. :)

Humbly,
~Olivine

sniffles
2005-09-01, 10:57 AM
[snip]"This seems to happen a lot." Wolf Mage [snip]

I just had to respond to this from the August thread, but the thread was closed by the time I saw this comment.

<rant mode activated>
I would just like to remind people that Rich doesn't get paid for this comic, unless we buy the books. Being on this site is free. Reading the comic is free. It's not exactly a high-paying job. In the last few months he's injured his wrist, been hospitalized, and had his home broken into. So don't whine when he's late with a comic. We should be happy that he does them as often as he does. And it is now time for the spate of bad luck to be over!! >:(
<rant mode deactivated>

Sorry, I just had to get that off my mind. :)

Malachi, the Lich King
2005-09-01, 11:15 AM
[snip]"This seems to happen a lot." Wolf Mage [snip]

I just had to respond to this from the August thread, but the thread was closed by the time I saw this comment.

<rant mode activated>
I would just like to remind people that Rich doesn't get paid for this comic, unless we buy the books. Being on this site is free. Reading the comic is free. It's not exactly a high-paying job. In the last few months he's injured his wrist, been hospitalized, and had his home broken into. So don't whine when he's late with a comic. We should be happy that he does them as often as he does. And it is now time for the spate of bad luck to be over!! *>:(
<rant mode deactivated>

Sorry, I just had to get that off my mind. *:)

All true but at the same time, to keep momentum going, Rich needs to update on a regular basis so that his audience doesn't succumb to ADD and wander off elsewhere. A day late isn't a biggie but I'm sure people have seen good sites fail from lack of diligence. I'm not saying that I fear this happening here, I'm just saying that human nature will cause people to move on if new material doesn't keep coming in.

TwinFang
2005-09-01, 11:22 AM
Well there is a 'paypal' buttuon on the site, if the readers feel so strongly about the comic that if it is more than day late they would leave it, they can use that and help support rich in anyway possible.

AtomicKitKat
2005-09-01, 12:24 PM
I wasn't complaining, merely observing that it was past even the new "dateline" he set for himself, and a little bit of concern as to his wellbeing.

Sidenote: Rich really needs to say "Rabbit Rabbit" each new month. I always forget to, but I try to remind myself to "Tibbar Tibbar" before sleeping.

Sylvius
2005-09-01, 12:35 PM
As a matter of fact, most paladins will insist on receiving their fair share. *Just because they're good doesn't mean they're going to give up their loot. *Yeah, they have to tithe a bunch, but you can't tithe what you don't have.

They have to tithe or give away most of it, don't they? Paladins aren't allowed to accrue wealth.

Or did 3E get rid of that rule? Like it did with illiteracy.

The Glyphstone
2005-09-01, 12:40 PM
3E still has illiteracy. For barbarains only, though.

There's no restrictions on paladin wealth, unless they have Vow of Poverty. ;D

GypsyThorn
2005-09-01, 01:37 PM
Easy explanation for the strip being late.

I learned in Psych 101 that intermittent rewards are more effective than rewards that come on demand or on schedule. Basically, if the pellets dropped out of the tube whenever we expected them, we would become lazy and complacent rats. So, this is Rich's way of keeping us on our toes, a lean, mean, reading machine.

Malachi, the Lich King
2005-09-01, 01:50 PM
Easy explanation for the strip being late. *

I learned in Psych 101 that intermittent rewards are more effective than rewards that come on demand or on schedule. * Basically, if the pellets dropped out of the tube whenever we expected them, we would become lazy and complacent rats. *So, this is Rich's way of keeping us on our toes, a lean, mean, reading machine.

Great. Like I'm not already a guinea pig for 500 other unofficial studies and experiments, now my web strips are leading me along with carrots! >:(

Froggy_the_Great
2005-09-01, 01:54 PM
Now that we have a better idea of what Roy's personal ad would say I wonder what Miko's would say. Probably looking for someone who is honorable and is solely interested in smiting evil (not bumping uglies) relationship must remain plutonic in the interest for the greater good?
Plutonic...Like unto a large mass of molten rock rising slowly towards the surface, possibly bursting out as a volcano?

Yeah, ok, I see your point.

thatwolfguy
2005-09-01, 02:52 PM
I would just like to remind people that Rich doesn't get paid for this comic, unless we buy the books. Being on this site is free. Reading the comic is free. It's not exactly a high-paying job. In the last few months he's injured his wrist, been hospitalized, and had his home broken into. So don't whine when he's late with a comic. We should be happy that he does them as often as he does. And it is now time for the spate of bad luck to be over!! *>:(


ok, i've bought a t-shirt, two books and i'm sending him something for his wrist. i want his bad luck to be over as much as anyone else but i also need my fix!

withdrawals stink :-&

dave / that wolf guy

kriebly
2005-09-01, 03:20 PM
ok, i've bought a t-shirt, two books and i'm sending him something for his wrist.

i want his bad luck to be over as much as anyone else but i also need my fix!

Your couplet rhymes, but is it set to iambic pentameter?

maxon
2005-09-01, 03:40 PM
Your couplet rhymes, but is it set to iambic pentameter?

That would be

da dum da dum da dum da dum da dum

So it isn't but I like the rhyme too. Is Rich ok? Does anyone know what's happening?

Olivine
2005-09-01, 06:28 PM
*Is Rich ok? *Does anyone know what's happening?

RawBearNYC wrote in the August thread line:

on Aug 31st, 2005, 5:16pm, Theo wrote:Is he alright? It's not usual for him to skip without a good reason...


He's got a good reason, but I'm not really comfortable giving away his personal business.
/quote from RawBearNYC


I'd quote it the official way, but I'm not sure how to do that across threads. :-/
~Olivine

Lilly
2005-09-01, 06:51 PM
I'm probably not going to be forgiven for this, but he might have a good reason (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=viewprofile;username=The_Giant). (The link isn't going to provide any information after 9/1 so I'll remove the post later tonight)

Lawful_Stupid
2005-09-01, 06:58 PM
It's his birthday? *blows noisemaker*

silvadel
2005-09-01, 07:00 PM
His birthday eh? He is almost 6 years younger than I am... :o

Olivine
2005-09-01, 07:07 PM
Hippy Papy Bithuda Thuthdyy! (or something like that)
~Olivine (approximating Pooh)

LordMiritar
2005-09-01, 07:08 PM
Happy Birthday Giant!!!

King_Troll
2005-09-01, 07:13 PM
Happy B'Day to the Giant!

Now, don't you all feel awful for being so needy?

NEO|Phyte
2005-09-01, 07:20 PM
this will probably get me lynched, but i think it needs to be done

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3593/pbf048bctodayismybirthday4zu.jpg

sniffles
2005-09-01, 07:23 PM
this will probably get me lynched, but i think it needs to be done

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3593/pbf048bctodayismybirthday4zu.jpg

Where is that from? I need a copy of that... ;D

SirGalrim
2005-09-01, 07:30 PM
Happy birthday!
May all your wishes come true! ;)

Starla
2005-09-01, 07:37 PM
Happy Birthday Rich! Have some cake! ;D


From ExplodingDogs.com

I love cake! (http://www.explodingdog.com/dumbpict51/lovecake.gif)
http://www.explodingdog.com/dumbpict51/lovecake.gif

NEO|Phyte
2005-09-01, 07:38 PM
Where is that from? I need a copy of that... *;D

'tis from the Perry Bible Fellowship (http://www.cheston.com/pbf/archive.html) (given the name, a surprising number of these arent work safe)

Winged One
2005-09-01, 07:42 PM
Have, have, have a happy birthday.

wolf_mage
2005-09-01, 08:30 PM
[snip]"This seems to happen a lot." Wolf Mage [snip]

I just had to respond to this from the August thread, but the thread was closed by the time I saw this comment.

<rant mode activated>
<snip>
In the last few months he's injured his wrist, been hospitalized, and had his home broken into. So don't whine when he's late with a comic.
So what you're saying is that this doesn't happen often?

All I said was, "This seems to happen a lot," ó which, as you have just admitted, it does. You filled in any "whining" yourself.

Duskrider_Moogle
2005-09-01, 09:17 PM
All true but at the same time, to keep momentum going, Rich needs to update on a regular basis so that his audience doesn't succumb to ADD and wander off elsewhere. * A day late isn't a biggie but I'm sure people have seen good sites fail from lack of diligence. *I'm not saying that I fear this happening here, I'm just saying that human nature will cause people to move on if new material doesn't keep coming in. *


Look, it's more than regular enough, and it's more than high-quality enough, that the "Psych 101" (aka "variable interval") response occurs. In fact, it's technically more of a fixed interval that...uh...doesn't happen every once in a while.

And I really hope that someone just decided to throw him a surprise birthday party a day in advance, cause he deserves it so much.

Ecteon
2005-09-01, 09:27 PM
Happy Birthday, you ol' Giant you...where's our D&D den mother with the cake? Best wishes on the big day, and take your time on the strip, I've got a wedding to go to and won't be able to check until Saturday or Sunday, so no rush from me. Of course, all the rest of the people who read this can feel free to yell, scream, and otherwise hate me verbally/typingly. Seriously though, enjoy yourself.

stormsdotter
2005-09-01, 09:34 PM
HAPPY BIRTHDAT RICH!

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2005-09-01, 09:43 PM
Sing, sing, sing, sing the cheerful birthday song!

Jades
2005-09-01, 10:28 PM
*whips out - A BANJO - and sings the Birthday Song*

No seriously, I play the tenor banjo.

My gift to the Giant is a dehydromonixide powered toaster oven.

*Gives it to The Giant*

valantha
2005-09-01, 10:51 PM
All hail the Giant! May the hair on his toes never fall out! ;D

Nerd-o-rama
2005-09-01, 11:10 PM
Happy Birthday Mr. Burlew.

Anyone else think Lilly's fired now?

Jades
2005-09-01, 11:20 PM
If she is, I'll hire her.

Mal_the_Mad
2005-09-02, 12:03 AM
*whips out - A BANJO - and sings the Birthday Song*

No seriously, I play the tenor banjo.

My gift to the Giant is a dehydromonixide powered toaster oven.

*Gives it to The Giant*

im thinking you meant dihydromonoxide

The Vorpal Tribble
2005-09-02, 12:22 AM
That DHMO is powerful stuff too ;)

Lilly
2005-09-02, 12:26 AM
Good gosh this has wandered off topic... NUDGE!

Platinum_Mongoose
2005-09-02, 12:28 AM
This song is to be sung in an almost durge-like chanting fashion (to the tune of the Volga Boatmen), each * represents a loud grunt accompanied by the clashing of gauntlets on armor and mugs on tables.

Happy birthday. *
Happy birthday *
May the candles on your cake
Burn like cities in your wake.
Happy birthday. *

Happy birthday. *
Happy birthday. *
Death destruction and despair
People dying everywhere.
Happy birthday. *

(end chanting for now)
I'm not gonna write out every lyric. Here's the link, though. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/music/birthday-dirge-faq/

Winged One
2005-09-02, 12:29 AM
What topic? The Giant needs to post a comic before this thread has a topic. Not that I'm whining or trying to rush him or anything.

Jades
2005-09-02, 01:52 AM
I'm a hort major, sue me for misspelling dihedromonyhatzitide. Wait! You may just have a valid case... hold on...

Nikolai_II
2005-09-02, 02:05 AM
Good gosh this has wandered off topic... NUDGE!

Just rename this thread "the Giant Birthday thread" and lock it, then start a new thread for September instead..

Having said that I'll just note that Mr. Giant is nine months younger than me, but seven times cooler.

[grumpy old fart]Bah.[/grumpy old fart]

Bjorm
2005-09-02, 02:38 AM
I'm probably not going to be forgiven for this, but he might have a good reason (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=viewprofile;username=The_Giant). (The link isn't going to provide any information after 9/1 so I'll remove the post later tonight)

Woot :o No-no!! Thats my b-day :P

RebelRogue
2005-09-02, 04:00 AM
A belated happy b-day to Rich from me as well :)

WojtekPod
2005-09-02, 04:04 AM
Happy birthday!

WojtekPod

Spork
2005-09-02, 04:31 AM
W00t, happy birthday!

Even though I am missing my OOTS fix, it is for a good cause...

What am I saying? The withdrawl must already be affecting me :p

Enjoy your day ;)

maxon
2005-09-02, 05:13 AM
I'm probably not going to be forgiven for this, but he might have a good reason (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=viewprofile;username=The_Giant). (The link isn't going to provide any information after 9/1 so I'll remove the post later tonight)

Oh OK fine

Sigh - when you get to my age, you just wish they'd stop (the birthdays, I mean).

Happy Birthday Rich

OOT-crazy
2005-09-02, 05:17 AM
Happy birthday man!

*blows kazoo, trying to kazoo happy birthday, and proceeds to fail his perform kazoo roll*

kriebly
2005-09-02, 05:41 AM
'tis from the Perry Bible Fellowship (http://www.cheston.com/pbf/archive.html) (given the name, a surprising number of these arent work safe)
I think this one (http://www.pbfcomics.com/temporary/PBF079BCMonsterDad.html) is the most disturbing. Show it to your kids and see if they agree.

Aeek
2005-09-02, 06:01 AM
Sigh - when you get to my age, you just wish they'd stop (the birthdays, I mean).


We start counting age in days, then weeks, then months, then years. Why stop there? Decades is the next logical step. And in centuries, I'm not even one yet!

Theo
2005-09-02, 06:59 AM
Happy birthday from me as well.

Hope you had an enjoyable one.

Olivine
2005-09-02, 07:17 AM
Good gosh this has wandered off topic... NUDGE!

One would think, with the wealth of material-the canon at our mouse-click, we could continue to discuss the comic sans the latest installment. ;)
So... Lilly(or anyone else).... Um... if you were to idly speculate, how do you think Haley and Miko will get along?

~Olivine

Sundog
2005-09-02, 07:31 AM
Badly. Haley seems to have a jealous streak, and while Miko is clearly the poster child for oblivious, there's also the alignment problem - LG vs CG can work, but only if both sides work at it, and neither of them is actually all that tolerant...

AtomicKitKat
2005-09-02, 07:56 AM
Happy belated birthday, Rich!

GreyRat
2005-09-02, 08:03 AM
Belkar:
[Drums]

I want OÖ
I want O-o-T-S

Elan:
[Electric lute solo]

Belkar:
Look at that bard now, that ainít hackiní,
You play the lute while on a dungeon spree.
That ainít hackiní; thatís the way to do it,
Get your E.P.ís for nothiní and your loot for free.

Roy:
I got to know To-Hit Roll modifiers,
Exotic Weapon Proficiencies.
I got to learn Knowledge: Dungeoneering
Just so we donít meet our demise!

Haley:
See the naked minstrel with his base Charisma,
Yeah, buddy, thatís his own chest hair.
That little minstrelís got a roguish fan-girl.
(That little fan-girl, sheís a millionaire!)

Varsuvious:
I got to research Meta-Magic Feats,
Summon allies from other planes.
I got to memorize Explosive Runes, now,
While he barely recalls his own nameÖ

MadLlama
2005-09-02, 08:33 AM
Good gosh this has wandered off topic... NUDGE!

Not that I've been here for long but it seems going off topic is ON topic for these threads ;D

Ilanin
2005-09-02, 08:45 AM
Badly. Haley seems to have a jealous streak, and while Miko is clearly the poster child for oblivious, there's also the alignment problem - LG vs CG can work, but only if both sides work at it, and neither of them is actually all that tolerant...

Actually I think Haley is very tolerant, she's just not given to trust and doesn't form friendships readily, if at all. A huge part of her chaotic alignment is the inability or unwillingness to form the relationships necessary to be a functioning part of a lawful society. Since her father seems to be involved in some form of resistance movement, "trust is a weakness" was probably something she grew up with. Hmm. She kind of reminds me of Timothy Zahn's Mara Jade, modulo completely different universes.

Aeek
2005-09-02, 09:56 AM
Not that I've been here for long but it seems going off topic is ON topic for these threads ;D

and its not as if we're talking about aardvarks.

Besides, my sig is on topic, maybe not right now but it WILL be again!

Karma
2005-09-02, 10:20 AM
"Basically, I get to attack you twice for free every time you charge me."

Actually, no. Movement only counts as one provocation, no matter how many squares you exit, and one creature can only attack once per provocation, even with Combat Reflexes.

But I wouldn't expect either a half-ogre or someone who got C- in AoOs to know that. ;D

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2005-09-02, 10:24 AM
Nice one, Roy!

The Giant
2005-09-02, 10:26 AM
EDIT: See, that's what I get for not having internet access; I screw up the AOO rules in a comic. Sigh.

Anyway, sorry about no strip Wednesday. It actually had nothign to do with it being my birthday, and everything to do with it being the first of the month and me having to move out from my relatively new house. See the News for more details.

Esclados
2005-09-02, 10:26 AM
The half-ogre could've easily taken the Hold the Line feat, which allows an AoO whenever someone charges you. It counts as a different source of an AoO, so that you do get two if someone charges close to you while you're using a reach weapon.

And I love the spiked chain... though really, the half-ogre should be tripping with it, preferably with Knockdown.


Edit to Giant: From SRD (source: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm#provokinganAttackofOpport unity )




Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity

If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesnít count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

Aeek
2005-09-02, 10:28 AM
Roy did warn him !

EDIT: timing! Read The Giants post before and after his edit! Like I'd notice, never made the jump to AD&D 1.0

King_Troll
2005-09-02, 10:28 AM
Ahh, it's good to see Roy putting that MBA to use.

RawBearNYC
2005-09-02, 10:42 AM
I should read this thread more often:

Regarding Miko and loot: Since the Order of the Stick is, technically, in Miko's custody, I wouldn't be surprised if she decided to take all the loot for tithing, donating or whatever obsenely noble purpose a paladin would use it for.

Regarding the spring attack feat: I love that springing actually makes a spring noise!!!!!!!

Nikolai_II
2005-09-02, 10:43 AM
EDIT: See, that's what I get for not having internet access; I screw up the AOO rules in a comic. Sigh.


Ah.. just look to my sigline ;)

I did use to run it like you, it was only when one of my players got a spiked chain and movement-induced AoOs became a regular feature that I finally looked it up and got it to stick. :-[

lukelightning
2005-09-02, 10:51 AM
Attack of opportunity rules made simple:

As soon as anyone even touches a mini with intent to move it or do any other action, everyone else at the table shouts "attack of opportunity attack of opportunity attack of opportunity" until the god of AoO is invoked...

Matt-M-McElroy
2005-09-02, 10:55 AM
Nice, too bad the Half-Ogre probably won't live to learn from his mistakes...Roy using the environment against him is great.

I wonder how long Roy will be using the Club for combat. Is he going to get his sword repaired or replaced?

How pissed is Belkar going to be if he doesn't get to kill anyone?

Regards,

Matt M McElroy
"What Are You Afraid Of?"
http://www.flamesrising.com

Btw folks, we have a photo of Rich at GenCon Indy up on the Flames Rising site if you're interested.

AtomicKitKat
2005-09-02, 11:04 AM
Half-Ogres are large, right? Should have gone Large and In Charge, then he wouldn't even need to move. :P

Then again, that would have removed the punchline(Ogres are not wise, no matter how much human blood they get)

Runolfr
2005-09-02, 11:24 AM
With regard to the munchkinism, I don't think that combat build works.


"Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesnít count as more than one opportunity for that opponent."

So even though Roy has to leave a threatened square twice to complete a 15' charge, the Half-Ogre only gets one AoO, even with Combat Reflexes. Further, a Charge isn't an action that's canceled by a successful AoO (as far as I know), so Roy still gets to complete his action and attack the Half-Ogre (once) at the end of his charge.

Therefore, the Half-Ogre should get just one attack of opportunity when Roy charges, suffer Roy's attack, move at least 5' to start the spring attack, attack once (since he's not using a Full Attack action), and then spring back.

Right?

Runolfr
2005-09-02, 11:28 AM
EDIT: See, that's what I get for not having internet access; I screw up the AOO rules in a comic. Sigh.

Who cares? *It's funny!

And what self-respecting munchkin wouldn't actually try to slide that one past a less-than-100%-alert DM?

EDIT: Against a DM who got a C- in AoO, it might well work.

Esclados
2005-09-02, 11:30 AM
With regard to the munchkinism, I don't think that combat build works.


So even though Roy has to leave a threatened square twice to complete a 15' charge, the Half-Ogre only gets one AoO, even with Combat Reflexes. Further, a Charge isn't an action that's canceled by a successful AoO (as far as I know), so Roy still gets to complete his action and attack the Half-Ogre (once) at the end of his charge.

Therefore, the Half-Ogre should get just one attack of opportunity when Roy charges, suffer Roy's attack, move at least 5' to start the spring attack, attack once (since he's not using a Full Attack action), and then spring back.

Right?


Right. But even if he only makes one AoO per charge, he's still pulling two hits for every one of Roy's, which is nice. But the real munchkinism comes in when you add stuff like Improved Trip, Knockdown, Large and in Charge, Hold the Line, etc. (the first three to stop the charger... the last to actually get an additional AoO on him)

silvadel
2005-09-02, 11:37 AM
Haley is NOT going to be happy that the +3 spiked chain just went over the cliff....

Penn
2005-09-02, 11:40 AM
The other thing that strikes me is that as a Large creature the half-ogre should have a 20' reach, unless half-ogres have special rules I'm unaware of. Going from medium to large just doubles whatever reach you would have.
On the other hand, this makes very little difference. :)

--Penn, inveterate rules monkey

Runolfr
2005-09-02, 11:49 AM
Haley is NOT going to be happy that the +3 spiked chain just went over the cliff....

Umm.... what makes you think the chain has an enhancement bonus?

Malachi, the Lich King
2005-09-02, 11:53 AM
EDIT: See, that's what I get for not having internet access; I screw up the AOO rules in a comic. Sigh.

Anyway, sorry about no strip Wednesday. It actually had nothign to do with it being my birthday, and everything to do with it being the first of the month and me having to move out from my relatively new house. See the News for more details.

Time to sacrifice a ram to Odin to lift this curse from you.

Lawful_Stupid
2005-09-02, 11:59 AM
Rich is now the most unlucky webcomic artist on Earth. Just a helpful hint, don't go into any casinos.


Poor little half-ogre, he shall be missed. He thought his plan was flawless. Too bad he didn't know that jumping backwards near a cliff was a bad thing. ;)

Wrecan
2005-09-02, 12:10 PM
"Basically, I get to attack you twice for free every time you charge me."

Actually, no. Movement only counts as one provocation, no matter how many squares you exit, and one creature can only attack once per provocation, even with Combat Reflexes.

But I wouldn't expect either a half-ogre or someone who got C- in AoOs to know that. ;D

Excatly. Roy's combat weakness is calculating Attacks of Opportunity, just like Durkon's combat weakness is calculating bonuses to hit and damage (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=34)

MadLlama
2005-09-02, 12:11 PM
I should read this thread more often:

Regarding Miko and loot: Since the Order of the Stick is, technically, in Miko's custody, I wouldn't be surprised if she decided to take all the loot for tithing, donating or whatever obsenely noble purpose a paladin would use it for.



Hmmm that would make for some interesting scenes with Haley ;D

chrek
2005-09-02, 12:22 PM
Well...Who'da thunkit? I learned that I've been ruling AoO incorrectly. My players will be happy to hear that. I'm not sure where it came from, but I was thinking that you could only make a single AoO against a single foe in a round, regardless of what they did.

[/offtopic]

The panel with the ogre falling off the cliff might be one of the funniest I've seen, though an "aw crap!" as he fell would have been great too.

phlip
2005-09-02, 12:24 PM
For some reason today's strip reminds me strongly of Bugs Bunny, and "I dares you to step across this line"...

Brother_Hood
2005-09-02, 12:47 PM
EDIT: See, that's what I get for not having internet access; I screw up the AOO rules in a comic. Sigh.


Bah. It's still funny for those of us who've played with RPG'ers who think like that. :D

Kaerou
2005-09-02, 01:11 PM
I love the latest OotS! I hate those cheese builds.. :D

SimonMoon5
2005-09-02, 01:19 PM
As soon as anyone even touches a mini with intent to move it or do any other action, everyone else at the table shouts "attack of opportunity attack of opportunity attack of opportunity" ...

We usually just ask the person who's about to move his miniature, "Are you going to tumble?"Some people just don't get it. One fighter in the group was told to put points in tumble, so he did. In one fight, this fighter charged (forgot to tumble), took an AoO, was told that he could've tumbled to avoid the AoO, charged another opponent (forgetting to tumble again), took an AoO, was told *again* that he could've tumbled to avoid the AoO, and then charged *another* opponent... and forgot to tumble, and took an AoO.

::)

lukelightning
2005-09-02, 01:48 PM
I wonder if the half-ogre's fall will be cushioned by an unfortunate flumph. Or perhaps a series of unfortunate flumphs.

enigma
2005-09-02, 02:06 PM
I wonder if the half-ogre's fall will be cushioned by an unfortunate flumph. *Or perhaps a series of unfortunate flumphs.
I don't think I could stop laughing if that happened. That would be a bad thing too, because I usually read at work, and my boss is already wary of my snickers at the comp.

Enigma

BurntOfferings
2005-09-02, 02:28 PM
We usually just ask the person who's about to move his miniature, "Are you going to tumble?"Some people just don't get it. One fighter in the group was told to put points in tumble, so he did. In one fight, this fighter charged (forgot to tumble), took an AoO, was told that he could've tumbled to avoid the AoO, charged another opponent (forgetting to tumble again), took an AoO, was told *again* that he could've tumbled to avoid the AoO, and then charged *another* opponent... and forgot to tumble, and took an AoO.

::)
Wow, our DM won't let us tumble during a charge, since a charge isn't normal movement, and the description of the Tumble skill limits its use for avoiding AoO to normal movement. He makes us take levels in a prestige class with an appropriate special ability (such as the Drunken Master's "stagger" ability) before we can tumble during a charge.

Oh wait, I'm the DM. ;)

Wow, this is so off-topic.

Ni
2005-09-02, 02:33 PM
Well...Who'da thunkit? I learned that I've been ruling AoO incorrectly. My players will be happy to hear that. I'm not sure where it came from, but I was thinking that you could only make a single AoO against a single foe in a round, regardless of what they did.

[/offtopic]

The panel with the ogre falling off the cliff might be one of the funniest I've seen, though an "aw crap!" as he fell would have been great too.


Wait.... I thought he got more AoOs because he took combat reflexes? Am I wrong?


To Rich: Wow... I mean... Not only does your house get broken into TWICE in the same week by your landlord, but you have to move out ON YOUR BIRTHDAY! Wow... Start buying good luck charms or something...

Dok_Tanoth
2005-09-02, 03:08 PM
Well...Who'da thunkit? I learned that I've been ruling AoO incorrectly. My players will be happy to hear that. I'm not sure where it came from, but I was thinking that you could only make a single AoO against a single foe in a round, regardless of what they did.

[/offtopic]

The panel with the ogre falling off the cliff might be one of the funniest I've seen, though an "aw crap!" as he fell would have been great too.


Chrek,

The reason he get's multiple attacks of opportunities against the fighter is because the fighter was moving through 2 threatened squares to get close to him, hence the important point of him being a Half-Ogre to get the 15 foot reach. The combat reflexes gives him the extra AoO, and the reach gives him the opportunities.

Woops. I made a mistake, the moving through multiple threatened areas does not allow multiple AoO.

Overelemental
2005-09-02, 03:25 PM
Well...Who'da thunkit? I learned that I've been ruling AoO incorrectly. My players will be happy to hear that. I'm not sure where it came from, but I was thinking that you could only make a single AoO against a single foe in a round, regardless of what they did.

I'm actually fairly certain that is correct, I've read that somewhere as well.

EDIT : Ah, no. I was mistaken, the others here in the thread was correct :) If you provoke different AoOs in the same round, they can get more AoOs..

mcc
2005-09-02, 04:01 PM
So... I keep wondering this more the more I learn about Roy's education...

Does "MBA" stand for Masters of Business Education or something else :-/

Lawful_Stupid
2005-09-02, 04:09 PM
Master of Battle Administration. Taken stright out of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools.

mcc
2005-09-02, 04:16 PM
Ah...

Sylat
2005-09-02, 05:23 PM
EDIT : Ah, no. I was mistaken, the others here in the thread was correct :) If you provoke different AoOs in the same round, they can get more AoOs..

The key word in there is different AoOs. The charge is considered one action therefore you only get one AoO even with Combat Reflexes.
Even if a PC was to move through multiple squares that the reach character threatens it is still only one provocation, therefore one AoO.
The exception is if the character moves through a threatened square then casts a spell, drinks a potion, or does an action different from moving.

Nightmarenny
2005-09-02, 05:44 PM
Wow I had thought that the Orgres would have been a long distraction. They already are cleaning up. Cool :P

Tawkis
2005-09-02, 06:13 PM
Always nice to see Roy outsmart his opposition. Great stuff as usual.

Sebastian
2005-09-02, 07:24 PM
Hmmm that would make for some interesting scenes with Haley *;D
The loot probably is all thing the ogre took away from the poor dirt farmers, I doubt Haley would feel good to take it away from them.

silvadel
2005-09-02, 07:28 PM
Umm.... what makes you think the chain has an enhancement bonus?


Half-monster with character levels -- almost certainly specialization or mastery with an unusual item and relies on it (and a special move with it) to the exclusion of everything else...

Diamonds to donuts that is a magical item.

Aeek
2005-09-02, 10:55 PM
The loot probably is all thing the ogre took away from the poor dirt farmers, I doubt Haley would feel good to take it away from them.

meanwhile, who's keeping an eye on the loot wagons?

RebelRogue
2005-09-03, 01:02 AM
Wow, our DM won't let us tumble during a charge, since a charge isn't normal movement, and the description of the Tumble skill limits its use for avoiding AoO to normal movement.
I'd disallow that, or at least set a pretty high DC for tumbling while charging. RAW, it's not an option.

HailSpork
2005-09-03, 02:29 AM
Shouldn't the half-ogre have 20' of reach? Large+large reach weapon==20' reach.
Also, he doesn't need spring attack; tumble is more than plenty. All he needs is combat reflexes and hold the line (though proficiency with spiked chain is helpful).

ShadowDragon8685
2005-09-03, 03:00 AM
Plus, he didn't really need Spring attack. Just five-foot steps and Improved Trip. Put anyone down with that combo, and you can punish them when they try to get up with another AoO.

Did you know that, when taking an AoO, you don't have to use an ordinary melee attack? You can make a trip as an AoO, thus stopping your enemies' attack cold.

matthew0028
2005-09-03, 03:10 AM
Well...Who'da thunkit? I learned that I've been ruling AoO incorrectly. My players will be happy to hear that. I'm not sure where it came from, but I was thinking that you could only make a single AoO against a single foe in a round, regardless of what they did.

Actually, that was one of the changes between 3.0 and 3.5 (or it was horribly misworded in 3.0). According to 3.0 Combat Reflexes,

You still only make one attack of opportunity per enemy.

That sentence was changed in 3.5 to:

You can still make only one attack of opportunity per opportunity.

Baatezu
2005-09-03, 05:21 AM
When the half-ogre stepped back I thought that Belkar was going to stab him from behind, but The Giant's idea is funnier

maxon
2005-09-03, 07:48 AM
EDIT: See, that's what I get for not having internet access; I screw up the AOO rules in a comic. Sigh.

Anyway, sorry about no strip Wednesday. It actually had nothign to do with it being my birthday, and everything to do with it being the first of the month and me having to move out from my relatively new house. See the News for more details.

That's a bummer Rich - *not* a happy birthday.

Hope it works out.

I thought the strip was hilarious though - right rules or not.

themunck
2005-09-03, 10:04 AM
meanwhile, who's keeping an eye on the loot wagons?

b or h i guess

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2005-09-03, 11:55 AM
Regarding the AoO rules for movement, it's already been established that at least in the world of OotS you get an attack each time your opponent leaves a threatened square:

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=48

SirAnon
2005-09-03, 04:36 PM
I come out in support of the Giant on this one.

Normaly one would get an AoA on someone charging them, they are entering a threatened square. *With the Hold the Line feat they would get another AoA for the person leaving a threatened square. *With a reach weapon this allows at least 2 AoAs against a charging opponent.

Overelemental
2005-09-03, 04:56 PM
I come out in support of the Giant on this one.

Normaly one would get an AoA on someone charging them, they are entering a threatened square. With the Hold the Line feat they would get another AoA for the person leaving a threatened square. With a reach weapon this allows at least 2 AoAs against a charging opponent.

You don't get AoO when someone enters a threated square, you get it when they leave one. But yes, Hold the Line gives an AoO against charging, so you'd get two total.

Nikolai_II
2005-09-03, 06:45 PM
Plus, he didn't really need Spring attack. Just five-foot steps and Improved Trip. Put anyone down with that combo, and you can punish them when they try to get up with another AoO.


If you fail to get them down they can 5' step after you. (And you'd have to have 13 Int to get Improved Trip.. Int being something that the Ĺogre seemed a bit short on..;))

Besides, no reason for them to get up either.. crawling (or tumbling) as a move action the 5' allows for attacks from the ground - although that option is not good against everyone..

Elethiomel
2005-09-03, 07:57 PM
If you fail to get them down they can 5' step after you. (And you'd have to have 13 Int to get Improved Trip.. Int being something that the Ĺogre seemed a bit short on..;))

Besides, no reason for them to get up either.. crawling (or tumbling) as a move action the 5' allows for attacks from the ground - although that option is not good against everyone..


I made a minotaur fighter who had a whip (Spiked Chain is outlawed in my campaigns, because broken) and had put just enough points into intelligence to get improved trip, and had enough dex to have combat reflexes. She was an absolute horror and if it wasn't for the party's pixie rogue, she'd have TPKed them (She used her natural weapon for the AoO when people tried to get up). She did have friends to help take the heat off of her, but with a spiked chain, she wouldn't have had to.

Crawling 5' counts as your entire movement for that action, so it provokes attacks of opportunity. Tumbling while crawling might be an option, but not for the tanks that are most likely to be charging the spiked chain user in the first place.

I'm glad the Giant put the half-ogre stupidity into this specific half-ogre, so he couldn't think of a better build. And it was way funny to see him fall off that cliff :D.

Rhuna_Coppermane
2005-09-03, 08:31 PM
On the AoO controversy:

Oh, who cares? It was funny. ;) ;D

Eloco
2005-09-03, 11:01 PM
I really hope Roy gets a new sword soon, Miko will never give him the time of day using such a primative weapon ;)

kriebly
2005-09-04, 04:59 AM
On the AoO controversy:

Oh, who cares? It was funny. ;) ;D
I am sitting here, beside myself.

Are you suggesting that each new comic should not inspire endless debates on game mechanics?

Please don't drain the magic away!!!

Tawkis
2005-09-04, 09:56 AM
Shouldn't the half-ogre have 20' of reach? Large+large reach weapon==20' reach.
Also, he doesn't need spring attack; tumble is more than plenty. *All he needs is combat reflexes and hold the line (though proficiency with spiked chain is helpful).
IIRC the ogre can't have Hold the line. It is impossible for the half-ogre since (again IIRC) it's not OGL :P.

Mr._Blinky
2005-09-04, 10:31 AM
Belkar:
[Drums]

I want OÖ
I want O-o-T-S

Elan:
[Electric lute solo]

Belkar:
Look at that bard now, that ainít hackiní,
You play the lute while on a dungeon spree.
That ainít hackiní; thatís the way to do it,
Get your E.P.ís for nothiní and your loot for free.

Roy:
I got to know To-Hit Roll modifiers,
Exotic Weapon Proficiencies.
I got to learn Knowledge: Dungeoneering
Just so we donít meet our demise!

Haley:
See the naked minstrel with his base Charisma,
Yeah, buddy, thatís his own chest hair.
That little minstrelís got a roguish fan-girl.
(That little fan-girl, sheís a millionaire!)

Varsuvious:
I got to research Meta-Magic Feats,
Summon allies from other planes.
I got to memorize Explosive Runes, now,
While he barely recalls his own nameÖ


W00t, let's here it for Dire Straits!!! ;D

Anyways though, I loved this new comic. Not even so much for how funny it is (and it is funny), but for the fact that a power-gamed monster got killed. Yes, I hate power-gamed characters (unless it's for a one-shot, then you're supposed to power-game).

HailSpork
2005-09-04, 01:35 PM
*IIRC the ogre can't have Hold the line. * It is impossible for the half-ogre since (again IIRC) it's not OGL *:P.
Not exactly, but close. I think it explains something though:

1) The half-ogre has Hold the Line, allowing him to make his second att-op.
2) The half-ogre can't mention that he has Hold the Line, since it's not OGC

Therefor, gets two att-ops, but only mentions that he has combat reflexes and spring attack. He only needs 5 feats for that (since spiked chain proficiency isn't necessary to use the spiked chain).

Crowley
2005-09-04, 05:24 PM
Reminds me of a specific build I had the misfortune to have a player make for my first DMing experience. A half ogre fighter/barbarian/war hulk, with a 15 foot reach with a changing/sizing weapon he kept as a duom, a strength score in the 40's, and the ability to stop charging creatures and even force them back 5 feet. He wore a torc of anti magic and had an item that allowed flight. I used to curl up into a fetal position when I thought about him.

Priceless_Ming
2005-09-04, 06:10 PM
Let him take wing then Dispel him. Too easy. Then pounce, rinse and repeat.

Mr._Blinky
2005-09-04, 11:40 PM
Okay, I know this doesn't directly have anything to do with the current comic, and I'm sure someone else has already thought of it, but in the first panel of 196 (way back), there is the diary pictures of Dorukan's old adventuring group. At the top left, there is a picture of a guy named Soon. Could be wrong about this, but I'm guessing that's Lord Shojo.

Return to your debate people.

Taelas
2005-09-05, 02:18 AM
You're quite right, someone thought of it. ;) If you find the old thread that dealth with that particular month (can't recall when it was), there were several debates on the issue. Among other things, Soon's shoes and Master Shojo's were mentioned as being the same.

Sped55
2005-09-05, 08:54 AM
This is exiting, now i have a new idea about the world of OOTS!



Its more addictive than tomacco. :)

Im not sure what this "tomacco" is, but *OOTS is more addicting


And seriously, i think the DM is giving Rich bad luck to test our patience. I mean, have you seen the CR of those Dire dressers? Its like 16!
And who knows what kind of random encounter he got on the 215 incident!

Yuki Akuma
2005-09-05, 09:40 AM
This is exiting, now i have a new idea about the world of OOTS!

Im not sure what this "tomacco" is, but *OOTS is more addicting

Tomacco = Simpsons reference. Specifically, it's a hybrid between tabacco and tomato plants, caused by radioative (not that there's any other kind) plutonium.


And now, back on topic... Um...

kerberos
2005-09-05, 09:56 AM
I don't get the "I smell cheese" comment from Roy. Does it mean something about munchkinism?

Karma
2005-09-05, 10:09 AM
I don't get the "I smell cheese" comment from Roy. Does it mean something about munchkinism?
Yes. As in "A half-ogre with a spiked chain is a really cheesy combination."

Deleran
2005-09-05, 10:54 AM
"Move, Move, Move, Move silently across the battlefield!"

I love elan.

(PS: Elans illusion has three arms in one of the panels)

Gleanerizer
2005-09-05, 10:58 AM
Apparently, strange ogres none have seen before carry very high rank.

Great comic Giant, as always. Had me laughing from the first panel. 8)

Tawkis
2005-09-05, 11:12 AM
"There's another ogre in the water!"

Oh poor stupid, stupid Elan. I love the guy

GobalinKing
2005-09-05, 11:51 AM
Wow, Rich gives us a great comic on Labor Day? That's just great. Ten respect points for Rich, and a free pass that gives him an excuse for skipping updates whenever he wants with me. ^_^

ObadiahtheSlim
2005-09-05, 12:20 PM
I love Elan. *Classic humor at it's best.

And as Slappy the slap happy squirel says:
"Now that's comedy"

enigma
2005-09-05, 12:32 PM
"Move, Move, Move, Move silently across the battlefield!"

I love elan.

(PS: Elans illusion has three arms in one of the panels)I think you're seeing a leg. I thought it was an arm as well, but upon closer inspection, see it's just a leg.

Thanks for the Labor Day comic, Rich. Can't wait till I can order the books and give ya a little help.

Enigma

Tawkis
2005-09-05, 12:50 PM
I think you're seeing a leg. I thought it was an arm as well, but upon closer inspection, see it's just a leg.

Thanks for the Labor Day comic, Rich. Can't wait till I can order the books and give ya a little help.

Enigma

Nope, the illusion has 3 arms in panel 6...

MrMage
2005-09-05, 01:35 PM
That's a great comic today.

Baatezu
2005-09-05, 01:39 PM
I know the giant ignores the rules when it makes funny, but this really bugs me:
if someone knows something is an illusion (especially if he cast it), shouldn't he see through it, or at least not believe it?

"strage ogre we never saw before" - priceless

Mr._Blinky
2005-09-05, 01:46 PM
You're quite right, someone thought of it. ;) If you find the old thread that dealth with that particular month (can't recall when it was), there were several debates on the issue. Among other things, Soon's shoes and Master Shojo's were mentioned as being the same.

Guessed as much, but I was on vacation the month that comic was posted, so I wasn't sure. ::)

Grey Watcher
2005-09-05, 01:47 PM
I know the giant ignores the rules when it makes funny, but this really bugs me:
if someone knows something is an illusion (especially if he cast it), shouldn't he see through it, or at least not believe it?

Elan must have really tanked on his Will (disbelief) Save.

Mr._Blinky
2005-09-05, 01:49 PM
I know the giant ignores the rules when it makes funny, but this really bugs me:
if someone knows something is an illusion (especially if he cast it), shouldn't he see through it, or at least not believe it?

"strage ogre we never saw before" - priceless

BUt Elan's so stupid he thought it was a real ogre, and thats half the beauty of it. ;D

Sc00by
2005-09-05, 01:49 PM
" I rolled a 1! "

;D

silvadel
2005-09-05, 01:59 PM
Yep Elan is stupid enough to pull off being an ogre pretty well...

Angry_Bill
2005-09-05, 02:09 PM
"Oh, you're just so cute when you are unjustifiably confident." - Haley

Any DM's ever think this about their players?

Bill

The Vorpal Tribble
2005-09-05, 02:30 PM
*rolls along the floor, shedding in mirth*

"Ok, I do as you say, strange ogre I have ever seen before. I go."

My players WISH I'd let that happen ;D

Viscount_Grey
2005-09-05, 02:32 PM
Maybe you should, if you have one who can perform that illusion who has a high enough charisma modifier...

The Vorpal Tribble
2005-09-05, 02:36 PM
Maybe you should, if you have one who can perform that illusion who has a high enough charisma modifier...
It'd be totally unrealistic, but sure, I could.

-=-=-=-=-

Btw, why does the ogre have a third arm? :o

*points to panel six*

Elan mess up and turn into an athach? ;)

Devoured_Dude
2005-09-05, 03:29 PM
Of course, since Bluff is based on Charisma instead of Intelligence, Elan would made the ideal secret agent/master of disguise/con man/etc. Counterintuitive, but them's the rules.

Silvadel has a point too, that Elan's dimness helps him "get into character" when playing an Ogre.

My first post, BTW.

bingo_bob
2005-09-05, 04:59 PM
Gah! My view of what the D&D world looks like is turning into little stick figures!

I just KNOW that every time I think of ogres or the 'change self' spell, I'm going to envision it along those lines! Curse you Rich Burlew! Curse you for helping me see what D&D looks like! :P

Medesha
2005-09-05, 05:50 PM
I love how the ogres don't use capital letters.

Kaerou
2005-09-05, 06:15 PM
Perhaps Elan has a very high bluff modifier. At his level, being around 10th.. and with 18 Charisma, he certainly has the capacity to have a modifier that makes even the unrealistic seem plausible with a good enough roll.

chronoshift
2005-09-05, 10:28 PM
The ogre guarding the cave kinda looks like Roy.

Eloco
2005-09-05, 11:18 PM
Roy should kick his butt and take his sword!

Sundog
2005-09-06, 03:54 AM
Ah, Elan...setting the cause of bard respectability back one year at a time...per panel...

Omega_Mage_Zero
2005-09-06, 07:01 AM
Elan is VERY dumb. Dumb as only a character in a humorous comic that makes fun of the dumb can be. But he's also brave and noble. His first instinct when seeing an underwater ogre is to jump in and fight it so Haley can rescue others. That's one reason beyond his good looks she likes him. Even though he's staggeringly Dumb.

EDIT: Also it was funny.

The Vorpal Tribble
2005-09-06, 09:10 AM
Perhaps Elan has a very high bluff modifier. At his level, being around 10th.. and with 18 Charisma, he certainly has the capacity to have a modifier that makes even the unrealistic seem plausible with a good enough roll.
Yes, well, get your escape artist and balance skills high enough and you can squeeze through keyholes and walk on clouds without magic, but that doesn't make it anything but unplausible ::)

This kinds of dumb D&D skill use is what made the comic so funny, because it obviously ain't just me noticing it ;)

El Jaspero, the Pirate King
2005-09-06, 10:11 AM
"On second thought, maybe Roy doesn't need to know about any of this."

Priceless.

GreyRat
2005-09-06, 10:16 AM
"Oh, you're just so cute when you are unjustifiably confident." - Haley

Any DM's ever think this about their players?

Bill
What I love is how proud they are about succeeding at pointless tasks, like aceing their sneaking rolls while they creep through a completely enpty house, and fast-talking an ally into doing what they were planning to do anyway. Yeah, guys, you rock. ::)

Aside: Thanks to the Giant for getting the comic up on the holiday, and here's wishing him a smooth transition into (another) new environment. Hang in there!

Elethiomel
2005-09-06, 10:24 AM
Yes, well, get your escape artist and balance skills high enough and you can squeeze through keyholes and walk on clouds without magic, but that doesn't make it anything but unplausible ::)

This kinds of dumb D&D skill use is what made the comic so funny, because it obviously ain't just me noticing it ;)

Yes, well, doing implausible things with extremely high skill scores can be handled in several ways;
- The GM says: That's implausible. You can't do it. Suck it up.
- Everyone around the table accepts it as a balancing issue.
- Since the world is magical (and therefore implausible in itself), extremely high skills border upon magic - very clever Escape Artists actually make their bodies partly liquid, allowing them to trickle through keyholes. Not by magic as such but by "mind over matter"; In a world where forty-tonne animals can fly around, and not consume the entire world's population of animals to keep this up, "implausible" gets a whole new meaning.
- Players (and the GM) thinks it's fun that some characters can have the skills of Chiun (from The Destroyer books/comics) or Li Mu Bai (from the well known Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon movie), for instance.

sniffles
2005-09-06, 10:54 AM
Ah, how satisfying to return from a long holiday weekend and get two steaming helpings of tasty OotS goodness! :D

(rubbing hands together gleefully) Plus I finally got my copy of "Dungeon-crawlin' Fools". A friend picked one up for me at Gen Con but I couldn't arrange to get it from him until yesterday. Autographed by Rich; my happiness abounds!!

happy happy joy joy
happy happy joy joy
happy happy joy joy joy!

Techonce
2005-09-06, 12:23 PM
Elan, such a source of humor and he doesn't even realize it. Great comic.

Since I was gone for the weekend I have a question about Roy and the Ogre/2. Why does he get attacks of oppertunity? Roy was charging (at least he says so) and therefore the ogre/2 doesn't get AoO's. At least that is how our group has always played it. THe handly little table from WotC says No under AoO. It's not a move action, although it does include movement. We allow AoO from other creatures that threaten the charging character, but not from the target creature, otherwise what is the point of having a charge?

Techonce
2005-09-06, 12:27 PM
Yes, well, get your escape artist and balance skills high enough and you can squeeze through keyholes and walk on clouds without magic, but that doesn't make it anything but unplausible ::)


Actually you're not fitting through that keyhole unless your head is small enough to fit through it. Now a little assistance from a friend with a heavy mace and you might just do it though...

Fixed quote tag...

The Vorpal Tribble
2005-09-06, 01:28 PM
Not by magic as such but by "mind over matter";
Yes, thats called psionics ;)



In a world where forty-tonne animals can fly around, and not consume the entire world's population of animals to keep this up, "implausible" gets a whole new meaning.
Except for the roc, aren't most creatures who do that already magical naturally?



Actually you're not fitting through that keyhole unless your head is small enough to fit through it. Now a little assistance from a friend with a heavy mace and you might just do it though...
According to the Epic Level Handbook, a book that needs burned and its ashes scattered within the negative energy plane (except the monsters which are cool), all it takes is a DC 80 escape artist check to go through a space smaller than your head:
http://srd.pbemnexus.com/epicSkills.html#escape-artist

If you pick the right feats and max out your skill and only raise your dex, you could actually do it around level 28 or so with a nat 20.

Nihility
2005-09-06, 01:43 PM
Yes, well, doing implausible things with extremely high skill scores can be handled in several ways;
- The GM says: That's implausible. You can't do it. Suck it up.
- Everyone around the table accepts it as a balancing issue.
- Since the world is magical (and therefore implausible in itself), extremely high skills border upon magic - very clever Escape Artists actually make their bodies partly liquid, allowing them to trickle through keyholes. Not by magic as such but by "mind over matter"; In a world where forty-tonne animals can fly around, and not consume the entire world's population of animals to keep this up, "implausible" gets a whole new meaning.

I tend to try to be more realistic in my games. I'll make the world and people a bit more flashy and use overly elaborate methods of getting an easy task done just to make it all more interesting and make the world seem a bit more fantastical.
However, I don't like to let players do things that seem over the top like the examples you all are giving. If you let them do things like that, they're just gonna try even more outrageous things, and if you don't want to let them do what they're trying to do, you'll run into an inconsistency problem and they'll want to argue that "you let my character do this, why shouldn't he be able to do this?". As for the implausability of magic, yes there's magic in the world. Some can harness these powers, some can't.
If you want to do crazy stuff like walk on clouds or squeeze through a key hole in my campaign, you'd better be playing a magic user.

Elethiomel
2005-09-06, 01:48 PM
Yes, thats called psionics ;)

Psionics is mostly mind over external matter.


Except for the roc, aren't most creatures who do that already magical naturally?

"Except for the roc". I rest my case.

RawBearNYC
2005-09-06, 01:49 PM
Elan, *such a source of humor and he doesn't even realize it. *Great comic.

Since I was gone for the weekend I have a question about Roy and the Ogre/2. *Why does he get attacks of oppertunity? *Roy was charging (at least he says so) and therefore the ogre/2 doesn't get AoO's. *At least that is how our group has always played it. *THe handly little table from WotC says No under AoO. *It's not a move action, although it does include movement. *We allow AoO from other creatures that threaten the charging character, but not from the target creature, otherwise what is the point of having a charge?

Ooooh, I just looked at the SRD. CombatI.rtf. There's a table in it that lists actions and whether or not they provoke an attack. It clearly says "No" under Charge. I think I need to go back and replay a whole mess of battles.

Elethiomel
2005-09-06, 01:52 PM
I tend to try to be more realistic in my games. I'll make the world and people a bit more flashy and use overly elaborate methods of getting an easy task done just to make it all more interesting and make the world seem a bit more fantastical.
However, I don't like to let players do things that seem over the top like the examples you all are giving. If you let them do things like that, they're just gonna try even more outrageous things, and if you don't want to let them do what they're trying to do, you'll run into an inconsistency problem and they'll want to argue that "you let my character do this, why shouldn't he be able to do this?". As for the implausability of magic, yes there's magic in the world. Some can harness these powers, some can't.
If you want to do crazy stuff like walk on clouds or squeeze through a key hole in my campaign, you'd better be playing a magic user.


So you're going for the option of the GM saying: No, that's implausible. You can't do it. Suck it up. (And try a different way of solving the problem.)

Which is entirely valid, and wasn't meant to be looked at in a negative way in my post.

Nihility
2005-09-06, 02:36 PM
So you're going for the option of the GM saying: No, that's implausible. You can't do it. Suck it up. (And try a different way of solving the problem.)

Which is entirely valid, and wasn't meant to be looked at in a negative way in my post.

I know. I was just stating the way I run my games. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with letting your players do crazy,unnatural things. It's all about having fun.

The Vorpal Tribble
2005-09-06, 02:42 PM
If you want to do crazy stuff like walk on clouds or squeeze through a key hole in my campaign, you'd better be playing a magic user.
Amen, brutha ;)



Psionics is mostly mind over external matter.
The 65 or so psychometabolic powers, along with most of the clairsentient and a bit of the telepathic, psychoportative and psychokinsesis powers deal purely with the self, affecting none but the manifester.



"Except for the roc". I rest my case.
The roc is special case and 'should' be a magical beast. Humans on the other hand for example are very rarely inherently magical.

Nikolai_II
2005-09-06, 02:49 PM
Ooooh, I just looked at the SRD. *CombatI.rtf. *There's a table in it that lists actions and whether or not they provoke an attack. *It clearly says "No" under Charge. *I think I need to go back and replay a whole mess of battles.

The charge in itself is not a "distracting act" and does not qualify for a "distract-AoO". If the charge-move makes one leave a threatened square somewhere along the way that still makes one a viable target for a "movement-AoO".

Elethiomel
2005-09-06, 02:59 PM
The 65 or so psychometabolic powers, along with most of the clairsentient and a bit of the telepathic, psychoportative and psychokinsesis powers deal purely with the self, affecting none but the manifester.


All right. I still maintain that weirdness through high skill can have its place in a campaign.Not all campaigns, of course - tone, pace, atmosphere, these all matter. I just react badly when someone says something shouldn't be possible because it's "unrealistic" or "implausible". This is a game, it's not about realism or plausability -- it's about fun. Realism and plausability may make a game more fun, but it may make another game less fun.

Much the same way that the comic is about humour, not about realism or strict adherence to the rules.


The roc is special case and 'should' be a magical beast. Humans on the other hand for example are very rarely inherently magical.

Humans, for example, are very rarely epic level.

RawBearNYC
2005-09-06, 03:03 PM
The charge in itself is not a "distracting act" and does not qualify for a "distract-AoO". If the charge-move makes one leave a threatened square somewhere along the way that still makes one a viable target for a "movement-AoO".

grrr...I missed footnote 1:
1 Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity.

Techonce
2005-09-06, 03:43 PM
grrr...I missed footnote 1: *
1 Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity. * * *


This was a point that was brought up in our group. *OUr general consesous was that the creature did not get an AoO and we felt that this was WotC's thought as well (but we may be wrong). *The charge description doesn't say a creature get the AoO and there are no feats that would allow you to remove the AoO. *Improved Trip, Sunder, Disarm, etc *all remove AoO from those special attacks, yet Charge is left out.

On the other hand... *I just read through anything I could find on this subject t the WotC site and they manage to never actually say anything. *THere is a blurb about Ride y Attack and Spring attack being there to avoid the AoO, but they also have the character leaving the area as well...

I must think about this...

Jades
2005-09-06, 04:28 PM
I take one day off from checking and I have to read forty posts in one thread.

Now, as for Elan in ogre form having three arms, yes he does. You can see Elan completely AND the ogre. When his arms protrude from the ogre body - voila, three arms!

Techonce
2005-09-06, 05:09 PM
Perfect Explanation for the three arms:

Elan mistakingly cast a 3.0 spell in a 3.5 world! THis probalbly caused the problem.

One day Rich will get rid of the extra arm and no one will ever notice...

Reptile
2005-09-06, 11:40 PM
Now, as for Elan in ogre form having three arms, yes he does. You can see Elan completely AND the ogre. When his arms protrude from the ogre body - voila, three arms!

In panel 6, you can see three arms for the ogre in addition to Elan's two.

I'm not saying Rich made a mistake, though--Elan probably just hasn't practiced the spell enough... ;)

Jades
2005-09-06, 11:59 PM
Eep... didn't notice that one. I think its Elan's fault too, not The Giant's.

GreyRat
2005-09-07, 08:25 AM
Poor Haley has discovered one of the rules of Boyfriend Behavioral Conservation: every time they do something cool, they will compensate by doing something really stupid. ;)

So, what are the chances that in the excitment of the fight, their loot-wagons were broken into by an irate landlord? :-/

Mercutio01
2005-09-07, 08:44 AM
Awesome!

Ilaun_Undil
2005-09-07, 09:27 AM
Not sure about that, but I'm thinking Elan... Haley, alone in Cave.... anyway, Just wonder what Belkar is up to.

evileeyore
2005-09-07, 09:53 AM
Going by previous behavior, I would presume Belksar is...
Harvesting kidneys...
Killing things bigger than him...
Something petty and selfish that will end up costing his team...
Assaulting a team mate over something stupid...
Any combination of the above.

Mal_the_Mad
2005-09-07, 10:30 AM
Belkar-- Miko's horse?
Haley and Elan alone in a cave.... just when it starts to get interesting Belkar arrives?

V.. doing something gender unspecific.

Roy and Miko flirtatious banter being rebuked by naivety.

Durkon doing cleric type stuff..

themunck
2005-09-07, 11:21 AM
known as: spellcasting

The Giant
2005-09-07, 12:12 PM
Comic will be up in about two hours.

Sylvius
2005-09-07, 12:28 PM
Thanks for the update, Giant. We hadn't even started whining yet.

reaperbryan
2005-09-07, 12:39 PM
The charge in itself is not a "distracting act" and does not qualify for a "distract-AoO". If the charge-move makes one leave a threatened square somewhere along the way that still makes one a viable target for a "movement-AoO".

My concern was more that the Ogre received 2 attacks of opportunity against 1 Target, claiming Combat Reflexes. Combat Reflexes clearly states that you may receive an additional # of A's of O = your DEX modifier, but you may still only make 1 A of O per target, regardless of how many actions provoke the A of O. So even if we assume that the Ogre threatens 2 quares and gets an A of O for Elan entering Sq1, he takes it. The Elan leaves Sq1 and enters Sq2, an action that as above probokes an A of O, because Mr. Ogre had already taken 1 A of O against him, he may not take a second A of O.

The debate of whether Elan gets an A of O for entering Sq 1 - My 2Ę is that he would not, though moving to Sq 2 would provoke one.




Off topic and as an Aside - Mr Burlew: I would like to thank you on behalf of Reaper Miniatures for your kindness to our staff and our Demo Team members during GenCon.

Malachi, the Lich King
2005-09-07, 12:50 PM
Comic will be up in about two hours.

Sweet. One fix, coming up....

As a side note, due to the holiday on Monday, my gaming group got together for an impromptu session and used it as an opp for people to try out the new stand alone classes in the 'Complete' series or new PrC. We took a break specifically to read the new strip and that prompted a tangent on OotS that must have lasted 30 minutes. I also brought the 2 OotS books I got at Gencon and that spurred some 'discussion' as well. Ah, good times. ;)

HailSpork
2005-09-07, 01:22 PM
This was a point that was brought up in our group. *OUr general consesous was that the creature did not get an AoO and we felt that this was WotC's thought as well (but we may be wrong). *The charge description doesn't say a creature get the AoO and there are no feats that would allow you to remove the AoO. *Improved Trip, Sunder, Disarm, etc *all remove AoO from those special attacks, yet Charge is left out.

Charging itself doesn't get an AoO unless the person you're charging has Hold the Line; there is no feat to bypass HtL. Barring HtL, there is still the possibility of taking AoO from leaving threatened squares. There's no feat to bypass this, but the Swashbuckler ability Acrobatic Charge probably will. Mobility will help in this case.

Also, as mentioned before, footnote 1 on page 141 says that they get an AoO for moving reguardlessly.

Anyway, the main difference between maneuvers like tripping and grappling getting a feat to remove the AoO and charge getting a feat is that you can easily charge without provoking an AoO; just not so easily against someone with reach. In the same reguard, it's not easy to get up to range to trip or grapple somebody with reach without provoking an AoO.

Olivine
2005-09-07, 01:26 PM
In panel 6, you can see three arms for the ogre in addition to Elan's two.

I'm not saying Rich made a mistake, though--Elan probably just hasn't practiced the spell enough... *;)


I like to think that it is a blurry-motion effect. Elan's waving his arms about, utilizing his natural ogre-impersonation (would that be imogreation?) ability. :)

~Olivine

NEO|Phyte
2005-09-07, 01:26 PM
The ogre guarding the cave kinda looks like Roy.
Is that another "Fighters are dumb" crack? That's it, we're going down a level.

StarWarz2
2005-09-07, 01:35 PM
This was a point that was brought up in our group. OUr general consesous was that the creature did not get an AoO and we felt that this was WotC's thought as well (but we may be wrong). The charge description doesn't say a creature get the AoO and there are no feats that would allow you to remove the AoO. Improved Trip, Sunder, Disarm, etc all remove AoO from those special attacks, yet Charge is left out.

On the other hand... I just read through anything I could find on this subject t the WotC site and they manage to never actually say anything. THere is a blurb about Ride y Attack and Spring attack being there to avoid the AoO, but they also have the character leaving the area as well...

I must think about this...

Here's an idea (though this should be over in Gaming). The charge, against a medium creature w/o reach does not generate and AoO (straight line to closest point and you never leave a square threatened by the target). In Roy's case, the 1/2Ogre has reach and is large, so in order to reach the target w/ his Greatclub, he has to leave a threatened square. Hence the movement generated AoO by the 1/2Ogre.

Lilly
2005-09-07, 01:42 PM
The Fairy Modmother: No more discussion of the AoO rules in the monthly comics thread please. *There has been another whole comic almost two since then, please take it over to gaming. Which is where the other thread on the topic is going too. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1125751850 ) *They've been sitting around for almost two comics after the fact, it's gaming time now.

Edit: New rule! Lilly isn't allowed to use bbcode with a migraine.

The Giant
2005-09-07, 04:06 PM
New comic is finally up.

Brother_Hood
2005-09-07, 04:13 PM
Anyone know if that rule applies in Real Life? Sure sounds like an excuse to get older to me. :)

Great Character, Rich.

AtomicKitKat
2005-09-07, 04:16 PM
*Snicker*

Brardos
2005-09-07, 04:18 PM
OMG!!! It almost brought a tear to my eye remembering how many times i ran parties through "The Keep on the Border lands" While I was learning how to GM. Just remember people "Bree Yark!!" means I surrender in Goblin <snicker>

...And Palace of the Silver Princess had all my favorite art by Erol Otis. Oh wow the memories.

I am sooo stinking Old!!!

Great comic Giant as usual

Baatezu
2005-09-07, 04:19 PM
Excellent comic, as always, but...

Border on the Keep & The Silver Princess were D&D adventure, not AD&D.
D&D had no NWP (correct me if I'm wrong), but something introduced in the gazeteers and creature crucibles called "Skills", which is a simplified form of NWP.

But then again, who cares? it's funny!

BiggusGeekus
2005-09-07, 04:27 PM
Brilliant!

Not only are old people better-sighted, they're SEX-AY!!!!!!

MrMage
2005-09-07, 04:27 PM
Yet again something very strange in the world of D&D.

Nihility
2005-09-07, 04:38 PM
Huzzah for NWPs!

King_Troll
2005-09-07, 04:48 PM
"And we liked it that way!"

Ahh, reminds me of an old SNL (or was it SCTV?) skit.

Sebastian
2005-09-07, 04:51 PM
Yes, well, doing implausible things with extremely high skill scores can be handled in several ways;
- The GM says: That's implausible. You can't do it. Suck it up.
- Everyone around the table accepts it as a balancing issue.
- Since the world is magical (and therefore implausible in itself), extremely high skills border upon magic - very clever Escape Artists actually make their bodies partly liquid, allowing them to trickle through keyholes. Not by magic as such but by "mind over matter"; In a world where forty-tonne animals can fly around, and not consume the entire world's population of animals to keep this up, "implausible" gets a whole new meaning.
- Players (and the GM) thinks it's fun that some characters can have the skills of Chiun (from The Destroyer books/comics) or Li Mu Bai (from the well known Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon movie), for instance.

Beside I don't even found it so unplausible?

nobody ever accused ogres to be smart (they have a -4 INT penalty for god's sake, they are not humans smart they are dumb monkeys smart), plus that was a bluff attempt where the target wanted to believe it,(guarding prisoners that you can't eat is boooring) and not put him to risk, that mean from a -0 to - 5 penalty (or bonus depending on how you put it) and to conclude Sense motive is not a ogre class skill nor a fighter or barbarian class skill, If I was a GM and the situation happened in my game I would have handled it exactly that way.

And about squezzing into a keyhole/walking on cloud is worth noting that those are around dc 50/dc 100 skill checks, if a GM let these level of skills into his game he should not complain if someone use them.

Nikolai_II
2005-09-07, 04:54 PM
Excellent comic, as always, but...

Border on the Keep & The Silver Princess were D&D adventure, not AD&D.


But there was a little note that said:

"With minor modifications, is suitable for use with Advanced Dungeons & Dragons"
http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/ModPages/B1.html

And the Silver Princess has to be mentioned what with all the myths (and truths) surrounding that adventure.

-

And yes, it is funny anyway :)

Sebastian
2005-09-07, 05:14 PM
Yet again something very strange in the world of D&D.
That's nothing.

In AD&D you were a better rider when you are ninety years old than 20. :)

Lilly
2005-09-07, 05:30 PM
"Sorry Haley, I can't hear you. I'm intentionally failing my listen check." is the best quote ever.

evileeyore
2005-09-07, 05:46 PM
A++.

I've been awaiting the "and we liked it line" for ever.

Ah now my life is complete.

Tanikova
2005-09-07, 05:57 PM
Now really.... how realistic is it to hear that kind of dialoge in real life???? never mind in the Ad&D universe.... I can still hear that type of comments and delibertly tuning it out with me and my parental units....

OldFart
2005-09-07, 06:20 PM
This comic was ... so ... d*mn ... funny.

I finally now know which OotS character I'm most like - the dirt farmers husband !!

BTW - it's not just wisdom. Your spot and listen checks go up with age because you actually begin to Pay Attention. ;)

Devils_Advocate
2005-09-07, 06:47 PM
Perfect Explanation for the three arms:

Elan mistakingly cast a 3.0 spell in a 3.5 world! THis probalbly caused the problem.
The 3.5 spell Disguise Self appears to be identical to the 3.0 spell Change Self... except that Change Self was not a bard spell, at least according to the hypertext 3.0 SRD (http://nightmare.org/dnd/30srd/) that I checked. Presumably, Elan found out that he could now cast a spell previously limited to sorcerers and wizards (and Clerics with the Trickery domain) without learning that its name had changed. So yeah, I guess that the improper somatic component could account for the oddity.

(I wonder if he swapped that in on one of the group's level ups or if it just replaced one of his old spells upon conversion to 3.5.)


Not only are old people better-sighted, they're SEX-AY!!!!!!
Ah, the beauty of aging in a magical fantasy land.

I think of gaining Charisma with age more as becoming a respected elder, someone who seems to know what he or she is talking about.

...I think I'll just keep thinking about it that way.


BTW - it's not just wisdom. Your spot and listen checks go up with age because you actually begin to Pay Attention. ;)
Ah, but paying attention is a part of being wise. That's why Spot and Listen are based on Wis. (Or is it "based off of", as the old man says? Curse this nonsensical language! Curse it, I say!)


I've been awaiting the "and we liked it line" for ever.
That one is truly a classic (http://home.tiac.net/~cri/2003/likedit.html). (I think the bit originated on Saturday Night Live, as King Troll sugguested.)

I think I completely misinterpreted Haley's final comment at first. I thought that she was complaining that this wasn't very funny, probably because she's one of the people who have to put up with this guy (and thus was suggesting that Rich had "crafted" a "bad gag"). After rereading, I'm guessing that the intended meaning was different. So, what, she doesn't have any more of the gags they used on Nale and Thog? Presumably, they didn't make those from available materials on the spot if she doesn't already know the Craft DC. Maybe someone else has them, but that seems like the sort of thing the party rogue would be in charge of.

;D

Sylvius
2005-09-07, 07:16 PM
Not only are old people better-sighted, they're SEX-AY!!!!!!

I don't know. I find I'm growing more crotchety with age.

silvadel
2005-09-07, 07:26 PM
Yep Keep on the Borderlands -- I remember that one (Showing MY age again)...

It would REALLY be hard on the characters in the game if it was in real time -- I mean every 5 years major changes would happen -- I mean back in D&D ELF was a CLASS....

Starbuck_II
2005-09-07, 09:32 PM
Does that mean 5 years ago V changed from Elf to Wizard?

I kinda liked it when you had 18 00's possible for Strength, I mean getting them was really a achievement. I got Str 18 95' last time I played AD&D.

now rolling an 18 is just an 18.

Is that dirt under his eyes supposed to be a mustache?
I notice he has ear hair too, eww.

King_Troll
2005-09-07, 09:55 PM
ok, I found it. It was SNL - Weekend Update with Dennis Miller (when he was funny) and the Grumpy Old Man Character played by Dana Carvey.

Somebody is nice enough to archive it here:
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/89/89qupdate.phtml

<a snippet>
Life was a carnival! We entertained ourselves! We didn't need moooovin' pitchurrrres. In my day, there was only one show in town -- it was called "Stare at the sun!" ... That's right! You'd sit in the middle of an open field and stare up at the sun till your eyeballs burst into flames! And you thought, "Oh, no! Maybe I shouldn't've stared directly into the burning sun with my eyes wide open." But it was too late! Your head was on fire and people were roastin' chickens over it. ... And that's the way it was and we liked it!

Oh, and just in Case you need some visual aids for Grumpy Old Man...
http://snl.jt.org/char.php?i=241

Eloco
2005-09-07, 10:11 PM
Oh yes the good ole days...

When miniatures were made out of lead.

When dice came in your choice of blue or blue.

When you had to bring food because they didnt deliver pizza and the only diet soda was Tab.

When you told your parents and friends you were playing poker so they didnt think you were wierd or joined a cult.

Oh yes, I remember it well..

Lawful_Stupid
2005-09-07, 10:12 PM
"And we would walk uphill in the snow to OUR dungeons, both ways!"

Hehe, sounds just like my grandparents, only replace "dungeon" with "everything but dungeon". Now to figure out how you could go uphill to get somewhere, then go uphill again to return to your starting point...


Great comic as always Rich. It won't be long now until you accomplish your dream of crushing the world poltical order with your unstoppable army of zombie webcomic readers.

Darasen
2005-09-07, 10:54 PM
Keep of the Borderland Yea !! fun dungeon. There were a couple incidents in that dungeon that have lived since. At least in my gaming circle.

Jades
2005-09-07, 11:24 PM
Great comic, Giant. *I bow to you for your genius.

Just as a side note, I go to and from school uphill both ways every day. This is because my school is on a (read: several) hills and I go uphill for class, then take a bus trip down hill to get to my second half of the day, and walk back up to my dorm. So, it is possible.

Ilaun_Undil
2005-09-07, 11:30 PM
Well since everyone else is saying how good it is, I'm going to make up something else to say about it. How many Cliche's are we facing here? lol. Unfortuantely, I'm just a whippersnapper myself, but lead Miniatures do sound like fun!!!

The_Shadow
2005-09-08, 12:07 AM
It just goes to show... Just when you think OoTS can't possibly get any better - IT DOES!

Rich, you're a genius! This one brought tears to my eyes!

Winged One
2005-09-08, 12:25 AM
"I wonder what the Craft DC for a gag is." ;D

But wouldn't it be a Use Rope check?

Jades
2005-09-08, 12:40 AM
Only if the gag was to be used to strangle the old man.

Mad_Max
2005-09-08, 12:47 AM
"I wonder what the Craft DC for a gag is." ;D

But wouldn't it be a Use Rope check?

Most likely but, "Craft DC for a gag" just sounds better. ;)

Slibs
2005-09-08, 07:01 AM
Bah. I remember when only thieves were allowed to climb. Anything. Walls, cliffs, trees. Sometimes if you ran into a tough DM your fighter wasn't even allowed to climb stairs.

ybn1197
2005-09-08, 08:04 AM
Oh yes the good ole days...

When miniatures were made out of lead.

When dice came in your choice of blue or blue.
And you had to color in the numbers with a crayon otherwise you couldn't tell one sde of the die from another.
And the d4 had one number on each side so you had to either pick up the die to tell the result or look at the other three sides and figure out the missing number.

Mercutio01
2005-09-08, 08:20 AM
I liked Non Weapon Proficiencies and percentile checks to pick pockets and bend bars... To hell with these skill things...

Bah.

GreyRat
2005-09-08, 08:34 AM
Ah yes, the days when it was impossible for any PC to make most of the commonly used magical items. They all required 10,000 GP plus rare monster body-parts, and half of the descriptions began "this item appears to be a perfectly normal (whatever-it-is) of poor quality". ;D

I missed D&D, but I remember needing to roll good enough stats to qualify for a class, and being excited at the 10% 'good stat' EP bonus. Oooh, I remember getting my first dice set! Sigh... (Great, now I want to go dice shopping. ::) )

Nivrim
2005-09-08, 09:36 AM
Bah. I remember when only thieves were allowed to climb. Anything. Walls, cliffs, trees. Sometimes if you ran into a tough DM your fighter wasn't even allowed to climb stairs.
My 1st ever AD&D character was a Ranger, whose name I've chosen as my board name. I was told to make DEX checks for every 10 feet of a perfectly ordinary tree I climbed. If I failed, I fell. All the way to the ground. I took 2 falls at 20 feet (15 Dex) and gave up while I had some HP left. :(

maxon
2005-09-08, 09:48 AM
Is that dirt under his eyes supposed to be a mustache?


NO those are supposed to be bags under his eyes - he's O-L-D remember.

Aeek
2005-09-08, 10:01 AM
Excellent comic, as always, but...

Border on the Keep & The Silver Princess were D&D adventure, not AD&D.
D&D had no NWP (correct me if I'm wrong), but something introduced in the gazeteers and creature crucibles called "Skills", which is a simplified form of NWP.


Haley's Dad is a D&D Thief, so why shouldn't the oldtimer have been D&D in his time?
As for NWP, so he's using modern terms, he is talking to young'ns after all.

Chlodwig
2005-09-08, 10:01 AM
My 1st ever AD&D character was a Ranger, whose name I've chosen as my board name. I was told to make DEX checks for every 10 feet of a perfectly ordinary tree I climbed. If I failed, I fell. All the way to the ground. I took 2 falls at 20 feet (15 Dex) and gave up while I had some HP left. :(
Oh, I remember those. Climbing anything over 20 feet was more dangerous than beeing in a major battle even with an 18 dex.

But the worst thing happenening to me was building a 2 weapon specialised fighter and finding out the GM had a VISCIOUS home rule crit table which he used everytime you rolled a 1 on an attack roll. And with 4 to 6 attacks a round it usually took me all of 2 or 3 rounds of combat before my fighter crit failed himself out of the fight.

Nihility
2005-09-08, 12:38 PM
I liked Non Weapon Proficiencies and percentile checks to pick pockets and bend bars... To hell with these skill things...Bah.


Switch to Lejendary Adventure. In case you don't know, it's a RPG system created by Gary Gygax (the man!) and it uses ability scores which each cover a variety of skills. The ability scores are each a certain percentage of your character's base ratings. Your top ability of course gets a high percentage of its governing base rating and each consecutive ability gets a progressively lower percentage. So when making an ability check to successfully use a certain skill, you roll D100 and try to roll under your score. I like it much more than any D20 system I've tried, and it's usually the only system my group plays.

Techonce
2005-09-08, 01:39 PM
Oh yes the good ole days...

When miniatures were made out of lead.

When dice came in your choice of blue or blue.


I don't know about blue, but I have most of a set of old yellow dice from a D&D Basic set. The things are so beaten up the d12 is close to round and the plastic is starting to break down.

I definitly do not miss all of the tables and frigging saving throws. And lets not get started on THAC0. I only played a little bit of AD&D, with Shadowrun and a homegrown system filling the gap for most of the time. I have few complaints about d20.

I do miss the treasure tables from BD&D. Dragons were type I or H right? THen again, maybe I don't...

Nihility
2005-09-08, 01:59 PM
You know, I was sitting here trying to remember some of these rules for DnD.. Completely forgot I've been using a DnD Rules Cyclopedia as a mouse pad.. Poor little cyclopedia.. so abused..

Mercutio01
2005-09-08, 02:11 PM
I liked THAC0 too. Everything's just too intuitive now.

Aerysil1
2005-09-08, 02:15 PM
For some reason I enjoyed the table-based feel of 1e and 2e.

That said, I was around for the Keep on the Borderland days, but I have yet to say "Griffon puckey".

Lawful_Stupid
2005-09-08, 02:50 PM
Just as a side note, I go to and from school uphill both ways every day. This is because my school is on a (read: several) hills and I go uphill for class, then take a bus trip down hill to get to my second half of the day, and walk back up to my dorm. So, it is possible.

Ah, thanks for solving that age-old mystery for me. *gives Jades a cookie*

Jades
2005-09-08, 05:59 PM
Glad I could help.

*Looks at the cookie*

This has almonds in it!

*clubs nearest person to death with the poisonous cookie*

evileeyore
2005-09-08, 06:22 PM
When dice came in your choice of blue or blue.And came with its own white crayon. I still have my old red box with the crappy dice and crayon in there. Ah the old days...


When you had to bring food because they didnt deliver pizza and the only diet soda was Tab.Tow Words: Jolt Cola.

We used to pool our money, buy bisquick, pizza suace, salami and peperoni and one whopping huge 24 case of Jolt Cola. Ah the good old days...

Where have the good old days of gaming from Friday after school unitl lat Sunday afternoon (non-stop) gone? These days I'm good to get in a solid four hours of gaming every couple of weeks...

Le Sigh.

The_King_of_Durf
2005-09-08, 06:25 PM
I liked THAC0 too. *Everything's just too intuitive now.

THAC0 is Wacko!
If you're a teen.
(Dammit what website was that from?)

Starla
2005-09-08, 07:09 PM
My husband is DMing a campaign now and he still uses 2nd edition rules. When I asked him if I could do sneak attacks with my rogue he said "Sure but it is called Move Silently and hide in shadows then attack"

LordMiritar
2005-09-08, 07:14 PM
Even though I am only seventeen, I have been playing DnD for a little less than ten years (Yes, I started when I was seven, almost eight) and have been playing 2nd edition ever since. Our group just started new characters as our old ones were just to epic (to use a modern term) and had to be retired (to use an old term). But did we start over with 3.5 edition characters? Nope, we're still goin strong with 2e even though now I DM a group of 3.5e from my school. So I get the best of both worlds even if my 2e players look at me weirdly when I say "You find a potion of cure serious wounds."

Slibs
2005-09-08, 07:49 PM
Crud.....this thread has made me realize I started gaming almost 30 years ago. Dangish you young kids and your fancy ways.