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FinalJustice
2007-12-22, 11:12 AM
Hello there, I'm doing an 25th level Gish and intending to use the Stalwart Sorcerer variation (CMage). The question is, I have only seven levels in the sorcerer class, the rest of 'em goes to PrCs. In this case, do I:

1- Gain +40 hp and lose a 9th level spell known, as for a sorcerer of 20th level? (Which is my effective level for spells known/CL)
2- Gain +14 hp and lose a 3th level spell know, as for a sorcerer of 7th level?

(As a bonus question, I'm taking suggestions for PrCs to exchange those excedent levels of sorcerer. I am a Swiftblade and a Abjurant Champion. I'm already aware of Fatespinner and Mindbender, but haven't decided about them)

Fenix_of_Doom
2007-12-22, 11:31 AM
Hello there, I'm doing an 25th level Gish and intending to use the Stalwart Sorcerer variation (CMage). The question is, I have only seven levels in the sorcerer class, the rest of 'em goes to PrCs. In this case, do I:

1- Gain +40 hp and lose a 9th level spell known, as for a sorcerer of 20th level? (Which is my effective level for spells known/CL)
2- Gain +14 hp and lose a 3th level spell know, as for a sorcerer of 7th level?

(As a bonus question, I'm taking suggestions for PrCs to exchange those excedent levels of sorcerer. I am a Swiftblade and a Abjurant Champion. I'm already aware of Fatespinner and Mindbender, but haven't decided about them)

I think you actually lose a 9th level spell known and gain +14 hp for a 7th level sorcerer.

Edit: I'm not 100% sure about the spell, but I am sure that you'll only get your sorcerer level*2 in extra hitpoints.

KIDS
2007-12-22, 11:55 AM
Yeah, in latter case you gain 14 hit points (sorcerer level 7*2) but the other part is wrong. Because your "+1 level of spellcasting class" from PrCs references sorcerer, you use your stalwart sorcerer advancement table so you should indeed have one 9th level spell known less.

FinalJustice
2007-12-22, 12:17 PM
Awful, but I can live with it. Thanks guys =D

Fenix_of_Doom
2007-12-22, 01:16 PM
Awful, but I can live with it. Thanks guys =D

Really? I wouldn't be, maybe you can try to get improved toughness or whatever it's called, I don't know where it's from but supposedly it gives +1HP/level, I'd rather lose a feat then a 9th lvl spell known.

RTGoodman
2007-12-22, 01:48 PM
I don't know anything about the Stalwart Sorcerer (my books are packed up for now), but is it like the Unearthed Arcana Battle Sorcerer (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#battle-sorcerer)?

Anyway, there are a few more PrCs you can look up. First, the DMG/SRD has the Eldritch Knight (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/eldritchKnight.html). It doesn't seem very good, and you lose one level of casting (a big no-no), but you at least get the extra feat and a full BAB.

Also, Complete Warrior (I think) has the Spellsword. I don't remember much about it, but it does let you use heavier armors and ignore the ASF.

This excerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) for the Eberron book "Five Nations" has the Knight Phantom. Again, it looses one level of casting, but I'm pretty sure it's considererda decent PrC for a gish (if you can meet all the prerequisites).

Also, for a feat, you might want to check out Battle Caster (I think that's what it's called) feat from Complete Arcane(?), which lets you use one level heavier armor without ASF as long as you can already cast in one type of armor without it (and, if you can cast in Medium armor, lets you use Mithral Full Plate!). If you don't go that route, a +1 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt will get you some AC.

FinalJustice
2007-12-22, 10:33 PM
Thanks for the insight guys. As for improved toughness, the problem is that Stalwart Sorcerer gives me the proficiency I need with a martial weapon and focus with it, so I can qualify to my PrCs (Swiftblade and Abjurant Champion). But I will definitely take a look at this Battle Sorcerer, may be worth it.

Armads
2007-12-22, 10:43 PM
I think it's possible to combine them both. It's worth it until level 20, when you lose an extra 9th level slot (on top of the one you already lose).

tyckspoon
2007-12-22, 11:07 PM
I think it's possible to combine them both. It's worth it until level 20, when you lose an extra 9th level slot (on top of the one you already lose).

I would probably only take one or the other. Battle Sorcerer loses the Weapon Focus, but gives a D8 hit die (mathematically about the same as the +2 hp from Stalwart), light armor proficiency and casting in same (you would have to also use the Armored Mage variant for this with Stalwart Sorc), and 3/4 BAB, which could get you into a prestige class faster (hmm.. it doesn't, at least for this build. You need to be 6th to get Haste for Swiftblade, which also satisfies the +3 BAB, and AbChamp wants +5 which will be hit easily by taking Swiftblade levels.) or just help make better use of Abjurant Champion's capstone. Using both variants would have a lot of overlap of benefits and double up the penalty, which is pretty painful.

Armads
2007-12-22, 11:38 PM
Battle Sorcerer's much weaker than Stalwart Sorcerer, because it loses 1 spell known per spell level, which stalwart sorcerer just loses 1 spell known of highest level, and also gives a d8 equivalent hit die.

Swiftblade's rather horrible, though. You lose all your 3rd level slots except to cast haste, forever.

cupkeyk
2007-12-23, 08:41 PM
Battle Sorcerer's much weaker than Stalwart Sorcerer, because it loses 1 spell known per spell level, which stalwart sorcerer just loses 1 spell known of highest level, and also gives a d8 equivalent hit die.

Swiftblade's rather horrible, though. You lose all your 3rd level slots except to cast haste, forever.

Huh? no... the qualification only requires you to use haste exclusively for your sixth level. After you get your first Swiftblade level you can use any third level spell for your sepll slots.

Armads
2007-12-23, 08:48 PM
Huh? no... the qualification only requires you to use haste exclusively for your sixth level. After you get your first Swiftblade level you can use any third level spell for your sepll slots.

The prereq is "Must have spent the previous level exclusively casting haste for 3rd level slots". After you enter a PrC, you still need to meet the prerequisites, so you still need to spend the previous level casting haste to keep the benefits of the PrC.

cupkeyk
2007-12-23, 08:53 PM
The prereq is "Must have spent the previous level exclusively casting haste for 3rd level slots". After you enter a PrC, you still need to meet the prerequisites, so you still need to spend the previous level casting haste to keep the benefits of the PrC.

And the Ur-Priest must not be able to cats divine spells or at least give up any spellcasting ability. -_-

The term prerequisite means that you must meet them at the point of entering the PRC. You will not find any document that says that if you no longer meet the prereqs you cannot continue the PRC or gain any of its benefits. That is stated for feats, not PRC's.

Armads
2007-12-23, 08:55 PM
And the Ur-Priest must not be able to cats divine spells or at least give up any spellcasting ability. -_-

The term prerequisite means that you must meet them at the point of entering the PRC. You will not find any document that says that if you no longer meet the prereqs you cannot continue the PRC or gain any of its benefits. That is stated for feats, not PRC's.

Complete Warrior Page 16.


Meeting Class Requirements: Itís possible for a character
to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position
where the character no longer qualifi es to be a member of the
class. An alignment change, levels lost because of character
death, or the loss of a magic item that granted an important
ability are examples of events that can make a character ineligible
to advance farther in a prestige class.
If a character no longer meets the requirements for a
prestige class, he or she loses the benefi t of any class features
or other special abilities granted by the class. The character
retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as
any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses
that the class provided

The Glyphstone
2007-12-23, 09:43 PM
Proof that WoTC needs to hire a completely ordinary five-year old child to proofread their books for them. (the CW quote, versus rather obvious things like the Ur-Priest ban on divine casting versus the class granting divine casting).

Cookie if you get the slightly obscure reference.

Nebo_
2007-12-23, 10:27 PM
"Must have spent the previous level exclusively casting haste for 3rd level slots".

How exactly does casting non-haste at your current level undo what you did last level?

@ final justice: What's your build?

Leadfeathermcc
2007-12-23, 10:53 PM
Cookie if you get the slightly obscure reference.


Evil Overlord List?

Armads
2007-12-23, 10:56 PM
How exactly does casting non-haste at your current level undo what you did last level?

It means you can't take the next level in the PrC.