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GoC
2007-12-22, 10:35 PM
Bigby's Master Hand
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 12
Components: V, S, M, F/DF

This spell functions like crushing hand, except that the hand can also perform slam, sweep and throw attacks.

The master hand currently grappling an oponent of medium or smaller size can attempt to throw them in a parabolic tragectory. The master hand first makes a grapple check against the target, if the check succeds then the target is thrown 3d6x5ft (for medium creatures) or 12d6x5ft (for small or smaller creatures) taking 1d6 point of damage per 5ft traveled up to a maximum of 20d6. If the creature thrown hits an obect before attaining the indicated range both it and the object hit take the remaining damage. A Feather Fall effect halves the damage.

The master hand can make a sweep attack. This attack hits all creatures in a 100ft line unless stopped. The hand deals 2d6+15 damage to each creature in the line and makes a bull rush against each. If it fails a bullrush attempt the hand is stopped and any creatures farther along the line are unaffected.

The master hand can make a melee attack aganst one creature within range. The hand's attack bonus equals your caster level + your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (for a wizard, cleric, or sorcerer, respectively), +15 for the handís Strength score (40). A successful hit deals 3d6+22 damage.

The master hand can grapple an opponent like grasping hand does. Its grapple bonus equals your caster level + your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (for a wizard, cleric, or sorcerer, respectively), +15 for the handís Strength score (40), +4 for being Large. The hand deals 3d6+15 points of damage (lethal, not nonlethal) on each successful grapple check against an opponent.

The master hand can also interpose itself as interposing hand does, or it can bull rush an opponent as forceful hand does, but at a +21 bonus.

Directing the spell to a new target is a move action.

Destroying a master hand with disintegrate requires a caster level check.

A master hand can be made permanent with a Permanency spell and intelligent with an Awaken Construct spell. A permanent master hand recovers caster level hitpoints per round, is tied to the spot the permanency was cast and cannot go farther than 100+10ft/CL away from it.
An intelligent master hand is not subject to this limitation and is fully loyal to the caster, traveling with him unless ordered to do otherwise. An intelligent master hand has hd equal to twice it's casters CL for the purpose of determining feats and skills.
Only a permanent hand can be made intelligent.
An unintelligent master hand can only be given simple instructions such as: "attack any non-humanoid that comes near".

Arcane Material Component
The shell of an egg.

Arcane Focus
A glove of snakeskin.

Permanent master hands make great guardians in dungeons, rapidly ejecting any unwanted individuals. An intelligent master hand may be used in warfare or as a traveling bodyguard.

Sample intelligent Master Hand:
Size/Type: Large construct
Hitpoints: 325 hp
Initiative: +16
Speed: 40ft (8squares), fly 360 ft. perfect maneuverability (72 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (-1 size, +11 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: -/+58
Attack: slam +54 melee (3d6+22)
Full Attack: slam +54 melee (3d6+22)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Sweep, grappling damage, throw, Master Hand traits
Special Qualities: -
Saves: Fort +20, Ref +16, Will +23
Abilities: Str 40, Dex 10, Con -, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 10
Challenge Rating: 17
Treasure: -
Alignment: Lawful Neutral

It's a bit long but I couldn't seem to shrink it.
What do you think?

ZeroNumerous
2007-12-22, 10:52 PM
...A twelfth level spell? :smallconfused:

GoC
2007-12-22, 11:27 PM
...A twelfth level spell? :smallconfused:

Umm... yeah.:smallconfused:
Why not?

reorith
2007-12-23, 05:26 AM
Umm... yeah.:smallconfused:
Why not?

spell slots run 0-9 pre epic

Zenos
2007-12-23, 05:32 AM
spell levels run 0-9

Epic level spell.

GoC
2007-12-23, 12:11 PM
Sooo...
No comments?
Is it balanced?
Is the CR ok?
Does it lack "realism" or flavour?

GoC
2007-12-24, 04:37 PM
Sooo...
No comments?
Is it balanced?
Is the CR ok?
Does it lack "realism" or flavour?

Were the questions that hard?:smallconfused:

Admiral Squish
2007-12-24, 04:46 PM
I honestly don't know. I don't really play epic campaigns, so I have no standard for epic magics.

GoC
2007-12-24, 04:55 PM
I honestly don't know. I don't really play epic campaigns, so I have no standard for epic magics.

Just comment on the CR then.

Admiral Squish
2007-12-24, 05:02 PM
A little higher, I think. It'd be great at disrupting formations and ruining plans.

Lizardfolk Lich
2007-12-24, 11:49 PM
So... it's The Force?

GoC
2007-12-25, 02:04 PM
So... it's The Force?

Actualy it's the BBEG from Super Smash Bros. but whatever works I guess...
I've gotten exactly one line of feedback. Is it that uninteresting?:smallconfused:

Da Beast
2007-12-25, 03:03 PM
Umm... yeah.:smallconfused:
Why not?

Because epic spells don't work that way. Check the SRD for epic spell guidelines.

ZebulonCrispi
2007-12-25, 03:44 PM
Name should be changed to Bigby's Master Hand, just for kicks.

I bet Bigby was kind of a weird guy to talk to.

Kevka Palazzo
2007-12-25, 05:13 PM
I noticed that you put in a HP healing rate, but I don't see a listing for its hit points. Presumably, you should also list hardness, SR and any relevant HP stats, but you might as well make a new monster...entry...

GoC
2007-12-26, 12:46 AM
Brennus: That depends entirely on the campaign setting. There are many spells higher than 9th in published WotC materials.

ZebulonCrispi: Good idea.


I noticed that you put in a HP healing rate, but I don't see a listing for its hit points. Presumably, you should also list hardness, SR and any relevant HP stats, but you might as well make a new monster...entry...

It's hitpoints are the same as the caster's.
I'll put in a sample Master Hand.

Neftren
2007-12-26, 09:59 AM
Actualy it's the BBEG from Super Smash Bros. but whatever works I guess...
I've gotten exactly one line of feedback. Is it that uninteresting?:smallconfused:

You ought to add the shooty part... and the drill part... and the awesomeness part!

Kaelaroth
2007-12-26, 12:50 PM
Cool, but I cannot rate properly until he has his laser blasting and sonic clapping powers. Good idea though. :smallwink:

Ioth
2007-12-27, 03:46 PM
Geez this spell would be hard getting mostly because usally once epic spells go past like 10 or 11 They go into these wierd seed thingies... Then again I was jiffed into getting a 3.0 Epic level hand book so I'm clueless.

I just dont get how this works... I've never seen ANY spell go beyond 11... All that i know is falling apart....

Oh yeah, Deffinatly up the CR one or two... 325 hp and 28-40 Slam with a
+58 grapple feels just a bit harsh for a level 14 character to have to vs. Especially considering its an epic level spell effect.

Not to mention they got +54 to hit, That would mean they would hit almost no matter what agaisnt just about anyone under 20th level unless they got insane artifacts that shouldnt come in until about 20th level.

If they ever went one on one against just about anyone they could just grapple them and only have a 10% chance to fail and even if that 10% comes in, there is a 10% chance to succeed anyways. then just continue grappleing for 18-33 per round.

Whats the duration? if its permanet, then deffinatly add a cap for how many you can control at a time and probably either add a item worth maybe... 10,000 gp? or an exp cost of about 1,000. Or maybe even both this is pretty darn powerful for a challange rating 14 creature considering its as powerful, Maybe even better some of the lower level creatures in the epic level handbook.

How many hit die does the intelligent one have, This is important to mention because of effects that depend on the creature's hit die, or for Feats. Before most creatures can even get a hit off on it, it gets to make an attack of oppurtunity because they move out of one threatend square toward it in order to attack.
The only thing thats not way to powerful on this creature for a 14 CR is that its Intiative is only +1. Then they got a move speed of 360 Ft Flying a presume? so Far the things I can notice right off the bat with it are:

Hit die: You dont mention its hit die.

Move speed: you dont mention what type of movement speed it has

Grapple: Its grapple is so Amazing its beats a collasall red dragon.

Feats: Everything with any intelligence has feats.

Spells duration: You dont mention how long it lasts.

Base attack: How does any creature with +54 to hit and +58 to grapple not have a base attack bonus when it only gets +15 from str... My calculations add that up to be +15 to hit and +17 or 19 to grapple due to large size


Heres some help:
64D10 would be adequate for a construct with 325 Hp.

Move speed: Fly perfect manuverabbilty, and if you're basing this off of Super smash bros Land speed of about 40 (When it was walking along the ground with its fingers.)

Cr: 18-20 You choice but somewhere along those lines seem right.

Feats: With that many Hit die it would have 22 feats.

Spell Duration: Its up to you but adding an Exp cost or High costing item, Or both if you want to use it as a permanent.

Base attack: 39/34/29/24/19/14/9/4. Look at its Bonuses to hit that would be it base attack line.

My Rating: 5-10 You not the worst, but your not an expert, This is the average results I see from someone.

Peronal review in short: I like it, its a good idea, but needs work.

GoC
2007-12-27, 11:21 PM
Thanks for the critique.


Not to mention they got +54 to hit, That would mean they would hit almost no matter what agaisnt just about anyone under 20th level unless they got insane artifacts that shouldnt come in until about 20th level.
Well yes but it only does 30 damage per round. Most combats last three rounds so it shouldn't be too hard to kill.


Whats the duration? if its permanet, then deffinatly add a cap for how many you can control at a time and probably either add a item worth maybe... 10,000 gp? or an exp cost of about 1,000. Or maybe even both this is pretty darn powerful for a challange rating 14 creature considering its as powerful, Maybe even better some of the lower level creatures in the epic level handbook.
The duration is the same as crushing hand. 1 round/level.
Permanency requires 500xp per spell level so having a permanent master hand costs a huge 6000xp.


Hit die: You dont mention its hit die.

Move speed: you dont mention what type of movement speed it has

Grapple: Its grapple is so Amazing its beats a collasall red dragon.

Feats: Everything with any intelligence has feats.

Spells duration: You dont mention how long it lasts.

Base attack: How does any creature with +54 to hit and +58 to grapple not have a base attack bonus when it only gets +15 from str... My calculations add that up to be +15 to hit and +17 or 19 to grapple due to large size
It's a spell. It doesn't have hitdie and is unaffected by anything other than hitpoint damaging attacks and dispel magic effects.

Yes, I forgot the move type. Thanks for reminding me.:smallsmile:

It's a living hand-shaped spell created by a mage who can bend reality at will. It's main function is it's grapple, the rest is just a bonus.

Here's the text relating to it's attack:

Its grapple bonus equals your caster level + your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (for a wizard, cleric, or sorcerer, respectively), +12 for the handís Strength score (35), +4 for being Large.
It doesn't mention any BAB though I suppose I could make it up... Would the BAB be equal to caster level?


Feats: With that many Hit die it would have 22 feats.
Oh, yeah... Feats and skills are mentioned in the Awaken Construct spell but they base them off HD. It'll need "virtual" hd then...
What feats should it have?


Base attack: 39/34/29/24/19/14/9/4. Look at its Bonuses to hit that would be it base attack line.
The ELH states that you can only have four attacks derived from BAB. But yeah, it might be a good idea to include a full attack. Did the original master hand have a full attack?

I'll make the other changes in a sec.