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PolarBearGod
2007-12-26, 08:10 AM
What Celerity is? Where do I find out about it? Where is it? Would it be beneficial for my 13th level Sorcerer/Wizard to know this?

I would appreciate any assistance. Also, I didn't get a chance to say this yet, but Merry Christmas to everyone and thanks for all of your kind help all of the time. It helps SOOOO much.

The Glyphstone
2007-12-26, 08:19 AM
Celerity (along with Lesser Celerity and Greater Celerity) are spells from the Player's Handbook 2. They let a wizard take actions on other people's turns at the price of later actions.

All of them are Immediate actions to cast, which means they can be cast when it is someone else's turn. Lesser Celerity lets you take a move action, Celerity lets you take a move or standard action, and Greater Celerity lets you take a full-round action. All of them cause you to lose your next turn by being dazed.

As for actual campaign play, it's probably very useful when you have buddies to protect you in that dazed turn - it's a staple of the Shrodinger's Wizard Wins PvP combo, but I've never seen it used in a regular game.

PolarBearGod
2007-12-26, 08:27 AM
Is there a way to incorporate this into the 3.5 game I play in? Where do I find the information on them, because I don't see it in the PHB or the Spell Compendium.

Keld Denar
2007-12-26, 08:54 AM
I think they were first printed in PHBII, if you can look it up there. I'm really suprised that they weren't reprinted in SC, due to their popularity.

All you really need to know is what The Glyphstone already posted. They come in 3 flavors, Lesser (4th), Medium(5th) and Greater (6th I think).

Cast time is 1 immediate action, so you can cast on other peoples turn, even interupting their actions. You can only take immediate actions if you are not flatfooted (so get that initiative modifier up!).

They result in you being dazed for the entirity of your next turn.

In actual play, Lesser isn't very good. That move action is pretty limited, unless you plan on redirecting a lot of spells. Even then, you usually don't have a shortage of move actions.

Regular Celerity is pretty good. The extra standard action means an extra spell, and spells are a good thing! Greater Celarity tends to not be worth it, because again, you get an extra move on top of your standard action, which, while nice, is not worth the increased spell level. Unless you are casting a full round spell (not many of these worth using Celerity for) or really need to take that move to reposition yourself to cast the spell, Greater Celerity tends to be overkill on a good idea.

Unless you combine it with Time Stop (which negates the disadvantage of the daze) its pretty self limiting. It allows you to "bump" yourself up in the initiative order for a turn, at the cost of that later action. It can be a real life saver if you use it well. Make sure that the action you take from it is one that is worthwhile, because you are giving up your next turn to do it. Some uses I've seen include:

Setting up a Wall of Force or Solid Fog to remove line of effect between party and enemy spellcaster when you spellcraft a really nasty incoming spell.

Using a "save or die" effect on a foe that would kill an ally (or yourself) if it was allowed to take its action.

EDIT: If you just want those couple spells, bring a pen and small notebook to your local Barnes and Nobles or other major book retail chain. Get a capachino from the convenient instore Starbucks. Pull a copy off the shelf and sit down in one of those comfy reading chairs they have all over. Jot down the spell level and effect, including any small notes such as material components and such. Also, take your DM to the bookstore, and show him the spell, so he doesn't think you are making stuff up. Have fun.

PolarBearGod
2007-12-26, 09:26 AM
I'll have to check my extensive collection of printed and purchased books. I think Complete Arcane is on the middle shelf, unless I left it on the kitchen table this monring. One of my friends was kind enough to give me a complete set for christmas! They are very heavy.:smallsmile:

Valairn
2007-12-26, 09:53 AM
Please don't discuss copyright infringement, its not smart. Best just to say something like, "I'll check it out."

Dausuul
2007-12-26, 10:45 AM
It's not in Complete Arcane. It's in the PHB2.

AKA_Bait
2007-12-26, 11:26 AM
I'll have to check my extensive collection of printed and purchased books. I think Complete Arcane is on the middle shelf, unless I left it on the kitchen table this monring. One of my friends was kind enough to give me a complete set for christmas! They are very heavy.

Fixed it for you. :smallwink:

And as Dausuul saidit's in PHB II.

Person_Man
2007-12-26, 12:01 PM
Celerity is utterly broken when combined with Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness) which allows you to take a Move action to Save against any Daze or Stun effect, even if the initial effect didn't allow a Saving Throw.

Also, I'd avoid using Celerity in the first place. Like Polymorph and Anyspell, its just one of those things that makes DMs hate you.

Jacob Orlove
2007-12-26, 12:53 PM
"Utterly broken" is going a bit far. I'd save that for the Celerity/Mark of the Dauntless combination. For the low price of two feats (Least Dragonmark and Mark of the Dauntless), you get complete immunity to being Dazed or Stunned. It's Eberron-only, though.

But yeah, if you avoid Polymorph, you should avoid Celerity.

PolarBearGod
2007-12-27, 06:03 AM
Please don't discuss copyright infringement, its not smart. Best just to say something like, "I'll check it out."

My apologies for that. I didn't realize that was copyright infringement. I'll see if I can find more information.

Please forgive me for the rules violation.

Kurald Galain
2007-12-27, 06:08 AM
What Celerity is? Where do I find out about it? Where is it?

It's a vampire discipline generally attributed to brujah and malkavians, that allows one to take multiple actions per round at no dice pool penalty.

:smalltongue:

PolarBearGod
2007-12-27, 06:31 AM
Unfortunately no book stores in my area have the second edition PHB. I did come across this on Google - Mordenkainen's Celerity. Is that similar and where might I find information on it? I believe it's Greyhawk, no?

CactusAir
2007-12-27, 06:37 AM
Unfortunately no book stores in my area have the second edition PHB. ?

PHBII means Player's Handbook 2. It;s not second edition, it's 3.5e. It's also not the second edition of the 3.5 player's handbook. It's a second handbook expanding the PHB.

You can find Celerity in the Spell Compendium, anyway.

cupkeyk
2007-12-27, 09:52 AM
It's a vampire discipline generally attributed to brujah and malkavians, that allows one to take multiple actions per round at no dice pool penalty.

:smalltongue:

Malkavians get Auspex, Dementaion or Dominate AND Obfuscate.

Clans with Celerity are Brujah, Toreador, Assamite, and the City bloodline of clan Gangrel. Minor bloodlines, I can't name any from the top of my head.

PolarBearGod
2007-12-28, 11:04 AM
PHBII means Player's Handbook 2. It;s not second edition, it's 3.5e. It's also not the second edition of the 3.5 player's handbook. It's a second handbook expanding the PHB.

You can find Celerity in the Spell Compendium, anyway.

Celerity isn't in the Spell Compendium, I looked. In addition, I searched through the David Noonan Players Handbook II and found nothing on Celerity there. Can you tell me what the cover to the book is or who wrote it and I can check my collection I have here.

I'm sorry for the difficulty.:confused:

BTW, I'm asking about Celerity for Dungeons and Dragons only.

Frosty
2007-12-28, 11:20 AM
I only know of one player's handbook II, with a picture of a rogue stealing a gem on the cover. Celerity is a spell from that book.

ryuteki
2007-12-28, 11:28 AM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/953747200

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/products_dndacc_953747200_lgpic.jpg

BardicDuelist
2007-12-28, 11:32 AM
Simply because this lack of clarification and understanding is really annoying:


Player's Handbook 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/953747200)

Click on that, buy that book, you will have celerity. Even if you don't want celerity, if you continue to play D&D 3.5, you should buy that book if you play games that aren't "Core Only." For a clarification of what "Core Only" is, please check the CAA&C Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512).

I hope that helped, but have a strange feeling that I may have only caused more problems.

PolarBearGod
2007-12-28, 11:34 AM
This is going to sound REAL silly, but my book, which is THAT book, shown in the link above, has NOTHING on Celerity.

BardicDuelist
2007-12-28, 11:38 AM
Page 105 (The one-hundred-and-fifth page)

PolarBearGod
2007-12-28, 11:48 AM
Page 105 (The one-hundred-and-fifth page)

So apparently, unknown to me, my book is missing page 105. Who knew lol.

BardicDuelist
2007-12-28, 11:50 AM
So apparently, unknown to me, my book is missing page 105. Who knew lol.

You cannot be serious... Well, it's definatly somthing my DM would do (take out the page with the broken spells).

Frosty
2007-12-28, 11:52 AM
A page is ripped out from your book. It shouldn't be that hard to piece together that you're missing a page. Unless it's downloaded or something.

PolarBearGod
2008-01-01, 07:30 AM
A page is ripped out from your book. It shouldn't be that hard to piece together that you're missing a page. Unless it's downloaded or something.

Well, without violating certain rules guidelines, the page umm... isn't there in it's digital spectrum. It was somehow excluded.

Irreverent Fool
2008-01-01, 12:15 PM
Well, without violating certain rules guidelines, the page umm... isn't there in it's digital spectrum. It was somehow excluded.

It's perfectly legal to own PDFs. You can purchase them through online distributors... or make your own if you have the books. I carry my entire collection around on my laptop simply because having them all at the game table gets a bit messy.

I probably would have deleted page 105, too. I play a caster. I looked at celerity. I told my DM that he should under no circumstances ever allow me access to that spell. Like the conjuration specialist alternate class feature, it allows any caster with it (and a swift or immediate action remaining unused) to completely negate any attack to their person. Actually, it's worse. You can react to ANYTHING you are aware of.

Some spells are just a little too good. Celerity and greater celerity are two of them.

CactusAir
2008-01-01, 06:56 PM
It's perfectly legal to own PDFs. You can purchase them through online distributors... or make your own if you have the books. I carry my entire collection around on my laptop simply because having them all at the game table gets a bit messy.

I probably would have deleted page 105, too. I play a caster. I looked at celerity. I told my DM that he should under no circumstances ever allow me access to that spell. Like the conjuration specialist alternate class feature, it allows any caster with it (and a swift or immediate action remaining unused) to completely negate any attack to their person. Actually, it's worse. You can react to ANYTHING you are aware of.

Some spells are just a little too good. Celerity and greater celerity are two of them.

The entire polymorph subschool, time stop, etc.

Cuddly
2008-01-01, 07:14 PM
Malkavians get Auspex, Dementaion or Dominate AND Obfuscate.

Clans with Celerity are Brujah, Toreador, Assamite, and the City bloodline of clan Gangrel. Minor bloodlines, I can't name any from the top of my head.

Assamite?
That's pretty freaking hilarious. It'd be hard to take a vampire seriously if he was from clan assmite.

horseboy
2008-01-01, 11:44 PM
Assamite?
That's pretty freaking hilarious. It'd be hard to take a vampire seriously if he was from clan assmite.

Don't laugh at the snake loving ninja vampires.

Aquillion
2008-01-02, 01:09 AM
In actual play, Lesser isn't very good. That move action is pretty limited, unless you plan on redirecting a lot of spells. Even then, you usually don't have a shortage of move actions.Wait, question. If I use Lesser Celerity right as someone attempts to full attack me, and walk away, is their attack still wasted?

Even without that, Lesser Celerity can still be a pretty good get-out-of-jail-free card. Sure, you miss a turn dazed, but that can give the rest of your party time to save you from something that might otherwise have killed you.

Also, can you cast Lesser Celerity when the party is not in combat and not currently using actions? Say, if the party set off a trap, could I cast Lesser Celerity to interrupt the trap's going off, and walk out of its range?

Icewalker
2008-01-02, 01:47 AM
Wait, question. If I use Lesser Celerity right as someone attempts to full attack me, and walk away, is their attack still wasted?

Even without that, Lesser Celerity can still be a pretty good get-out-of-jail-free card. Sure, you miss a turn dazed, but that can give the rest of your party time to save you from something that might otherwise have killed you.

Also, can you cast Lesser Celerity when the party is not in combat and not currently using actions? Say, if the party set off a trap, could I cast Lesser Celerity to interrupt the trap's going off, and walk out of its range?

Celerity is not broken, I think. If the right DM is making the decisions, at least.

I would say if you celerity'd out of the way of an attack, they would lose a free action stopping the attack, but still get their standard action. Or maybe lose a move action out of the full, but get to redo the standard. Hard call.

#2 is perfectly fair.

3: I would say you couldn't do 3, seeing as immediate isn't that fast. It lets you act during another's turn, but I would say you can't react in time to the trap going off before it hits you, unless it is a trap that takes some measure of time to go off. ie, I wouldn't let you dodge an arrow, but I would let you run out of the way of a falling object (as long as it is falling from high enough, and it isn't silent somehow)


Also, I have heard a good description for why Celerity+Time Stop does not work: Celerity means that during the next round you are dazed. Time stop effectively gives you 1d4 (or whatever) actions in that slowed down round, but it is still the same round. You are dazed throughout the whole Time Stop.

marjan
2008-01-02, 01:59 AM
Also, I have heard a good description for why Celerity+Time Stop does not work: Celerity means that during the next round you are dazed. Time stop effectively gives you 1d4 (or whatever) actions in that slowed down round, but it is still the same round. You are dazed throughout the whole Time Stop.

That's not the case IMO. For you those are 1d4+1 rounds and daze effect is created by you so it's mesured by your time which would mean that you still get 1d4 rounds to act. If someone other than yourself dazed you that could happen but that's not the case here. Being dazed throughout Time Stop as the side-effect of Celerity is grasping for a straw if you ask me.

Aquillion
2008-01-02, 03:28 AM
Also, I have heard a good description for why Celerity+Time Stop does not work: Celerity means that during the next round you are dazed. Time stop effectively gives you 1d4 (or whatever) actions in that slowed down round, but it is still the same round. You are dazed throughout the whole Time Stop.That doesn't make any sense at all. Time Stop doesn't give you 1d4+1 actions during your next round, it gives them to you immediately (that is, in the very instant you cast it.) Therefore, even if it worked as you said, when you Celerity + Time Stop, the Time Stop is stretching out the action you got from the Celerity (when you were definitely not dazed).

Cuddly
2008-01-02, 03:31 AM
So after Time Stop wore off, you'd be dazed?

Talic
2008-01-02, 04:03 AM
That doesn't make any sense at all. Time Stop doesn't give you 1d4+1 actions during your next round, it gives them to you immediately (that is, in the very instant you cast it.) Therefore, even if it worked as you said, when you Celerity + Time Stop, the Time Stop is stretching out the action you got from the Celerity (when you were definitely not dazed).

Wrong. You get additional actions. Nobody else does. If you are dazed for your next full round action, the rounds you get from time stop are allowed to be used to satisfy that.

Keep in mind, time is still passing for you. Just not for everyone else.

Say a mage gets hit by a poison, and makes his save. 9 rounds pass, and on the 9th round, he casts time stop. He will have to make his round 10 save while in time stop. Just as the duration on any personal effect spells he has in place continue to count down.

Aquillion
2008-01-02, 08:16 PM
Wrong. You get additional actions. Nobody else does. If you are dazed for your next full round action, the rounds you get from time stop are allowed to be used to satisfy that.

Keep in mind, time is still passing for you. Just not for everyone else.

Say a mage gets hit by a poison, and makes his save. 9 rounds pass, and on the 9th round, he casts time stop. He will have to make his round 10 save while in time stop. Just as the duration on any personal effect spells he has in place continue to count down.Oh, I wasn't arguing with the fact that that's the RAW result. I was just saying that if you're going to focus on interpreting the time-dilation effect via houserules, having the daze be after the time stop would be more likely than having it occupy the entire time.

Your body reacts with dizziness after the rapidness of the Celerity has ended. If you want to try and figure out 'how it would really work', the logical conclusion is that (since Time Stop takes effect immediately, during the Celerity action) you're dazed afterwards.

loganic
2008-02-20, 03:44 PM
There's a really easy way to get past the daze. Favor of Martyr.

Paladin 4
Immunity to a bunch of effects for minute/level, including of which is daze.

One of the few ways to effectively get past it, buy a scroll of FoM.
In fact, Favor of Martyr long enough for you to cast Greater Celerity multiple times, whether you want to get a staff of infinite greater Celerity and put a time stop in it, so you can buff yourself with it ahead of time.

As for Time stop + celerity, It would make sense for the daze to be on the following round while still being affected by Time stop, but on the same note, You shouldn't be able to do anything for the round you have celerity. You are still being affected by time stop, but rather are speeding yourself up even more for one of those rounds.

Starbuck_II
2008-02-20, 04:32 PM
3: I would say you couldn't do 3, seeing as immediate isn't that fast. It lets you act during another's turn, but I would say you can't react in time to the trap going off before it hits you, unless it is a trap that takes some measure of time to go off. ie, I wouldn't let you dodge an arrow, but I would let you run out of the way of a falling object (as long as it is falling from high enough, and it isn't silent somehow)


Actually, the reason he can't do that is you can't use immediate actions while Flatfoot. He needs 2 levels in Scout to never be flatfoot (very few classes get that ability). Or burn a spell slot on Foresight.

A Scout 2/Wizard X Can use immediate actions versus anything even traps.

sikyon
2008-02-20, 05:26 PM
Actually, the reason he can't do that is you can't use immediate actions while Flatfoot. He needs 2 levels in Scout to never be flatfoot (very few classes get that ability). Or burn a spell slot on Foresight.

A Scout 2/Wizard X Can use immediate actions versus anything even traps.

Yeah Foresight + Celerity is actually the big combo there...