Space Marine LA

[graymachine]

What would be the LA on a Space Marine? What would such a template look like? Any ideas? I was just wondering about it because I'm knee-deep in the Imperium-betting-everyone debates on the board. I would put up a rough template, but I have little experience in making templates from scratch.

[EL HUEVADOR]

Well for starters you'd need something like:

+4 STR, +8CON, +4 WIS

Natural Armor +4

Plot Armor +9001

Fast Healing

Natural Weapon (they spit acid, you know)

...

It may be better just to find that huge list of SM enhancements on the GW website and work through it.

I'm sure you'd wind up with something totally insane like +12 LA, really.

[Inyssius Tor]

Make a lot of it racial HD, not LA pseudo-levels. You want tough, not "glass cannon."

[Closet_Skeleton]

This should be in homebrew.

[SurlySeraph]

Look here (http://www.geocities.com/skrittiblak/races/spacemarine.htm).

[Lady Tialait]

oh yes, Pun-Pun cannot compeate with superknitting!

eek...wrong thread...

[Felius]

You want space marine from where? Doom, Alien, or WH40k, or somewhere else?

[JMobius]

The mention of the Imperium indicates WH40K.

[Felius]

The mention of the Imperium indicates WH40K.

oops :smalleek: Didn't saw that. :smalleek:

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Hmm...that link above is pretty neat, though for a +5 one would think that they get a bit more...well...more. a 'basic' strength of 14 is kinda lame, even orcs are stronger than that. A Basic marine is as strong as an 'orc', but better trained, more flexible, and tougher...well...better armor at least.

Also, the 'basic' marine is as strong as the strongest heroes of the IG, which are str 4 basic humans...lends me to think that 'basic' marines are +6-+8 in the strength mod. The dex looks about right, the con might be lacking a slight bit...

I am not sure if I would give them bonus Wisdom or Int...or if so, not that much...more like bonuses to will saves and such due to lots and lots of training and mental subjugation. Charisma? Not sure...probably about right...each is a strong personality...possibly they might have a penalty dealing with non-marines.

A marine probably has some form of natural armor from that last implant. The fast healing mechanic looks liek it might work pretty good.

All in all, unless a marine is going to have several levels in 'monsterous humanoid' like...3-4...(or something that gave them full BaB progression), they shouldn't be more than +4 or +5 LA...even with fancy stats, without anything really uberly spiffy, they are no harder than any CR3 monster. By themselves without armor and weapons...they aren't that special, Just humans with maxed stats, maybe slightly stronger, and that is it.

[Doomsy]

Oh, their LA is going to be through the roof no matter how you cut it.
An Adeptus Astarte space marine goes through a series of implants that are designed to make him superhuman long before he is even close to wearing the armor. Even without the iconic armor, a space marine is a terrifying, inhuman opponent.

They can spit poison. They can go without sleep for weeks. They have skeletal modifications that make their bones like implanted armor. They have reactions beyond all normal conception. They can eat their enemies dead and obtain some of their genetic memories. They have an extreme tolerance for extreme conditions that is next to unmatched.

Put the armor on, and things just get worse.

[Kizara]

Genetically Augmented Template:

+6 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con, +2 Cha
Add 1' to base height.
Gain Alertness, Iron Will, Endurance, Improved Toughness and Exotic Armor Proficiency (Power Armor) as bonus feats.
Gain +1 to all saves, and +4 additional versus poison.
Reduce time needed to sleep by 3/4 (so 6 hours if normally 8 hours).
Gain low-light vision.
Gain immunity to non-magical causes of blood loss, and automatically stabilize if dropped under 0 hp.
Gain the ability to hold your breath four times longer than normal, and increased ability to survive in low-atmosphere or toxic environments(to be clarified later).
Gain immunity to the Nauseated and Dazed effects.
Live 10x longer than normal (use elf chart for easy reference)
Gain fire resistance 10.

Level Adjustment: +3

NOTE: This is for an Imperial Fist marine. If you want to have the acid-spitting Gene-Seed, then add in a 1d4 acid damage 5ft range 'spit' attack that is usable once every 2d4 rounds. No Adjustment to LA.

Power Armor:
The armor weighs 250 pounds, but adds only 70 pounds to encumbrance, as it supports much of its own weight. It requires 10 minutes to get into or out of the clockwork armor, as sections of it are bolted on, secured with wire cables, and some joints require careful fitting of gears and servo connections.

When the clockwork armor is worn, the wearer gains an effective +4 circumstance bonus to both Strength and Dexterity, as the armor enhances speed, precision, and raw power of its wearer's movements. In addition, it provides a +8 armor bonus to AC and increases the wearer's base land speed by 5 feet.

[graymachine]

I like the idea of racial levels, but I'm curious to see if a template can do it.

How about:

STR +6
DEX +2
CON +2
INT -2

FORT +5
REF +5

+4 vs poison

+4 Natural Armor

+2 Spot/Listen

-4 Bluff

-2 Diplomacy

+4 Intimidate

-4 Hide/Move Silently

LA: ???

[graymachine]

Genetically Augmented Template:

+6 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con, +2 Cha
Add 1' to base height.
Gain Alertness, Iron Will, Endurance, Improved Toughness and Exotic Armor Proficiency (Power Armor) as bonus feats.
Gain +1 to all saves, and +4 additional versus poison.
Reduce time needed to sleep by 3/4 (so 6 hours if normally 8 hours).
Gain low-light vision.
Gain immunity to non-magical causes of blood loss, and automatically stabilize if dropped under 0 hp.
Gain the ability to hold your breath four times longer than normal, and increased ability to survive in low-atmosphere or toxic environments(to be clarified later).
Gain immunity to the Nauseated and Dazed effects.
Live 10x longer than normal (use elf chart for easy reference)
Gain fire resistance 10.

Level Adjustment: +3



Power Armor:
The armor weighs 250 pounds, but adds only 70 pounds to encumbrance, as it supports much of its own weight. It requires 10 minutes to get into or out of the clockwork armor, as sections of it are bolted on, secured with wire cables, and some joints require careful fitting of gears and servo connections.

When the clockwork armor is worn, the wearer gains an effective +4 circumstance bonus to both Strength and Dexterity, as the armor enhances speed, precision, and raw power of its wearer's movements. In addition, it provides a +8 armor bonus to AC and increases the wearer's base land speed by 5 feet.

Damn my slow posting. Much better put together than mine.

[tyckspoon]

All in all, unless a marine is going to have several levels in 'monsterous humanoid' like...3-4...(or something that gave them full BaB progression), they shouldn't be more than +4 or +5 LA...even with fancy stats, without anything really uberly spiffy, they are no harder than any CR3 monster. By themselves without armor and weapons...they aren't that special, Just humans with maxed stats, maybe slightly stronger, and that is it.

If you go with the fluff, Marines are recruited from only the best of the best from an entire planet's population. They don't need extra HD as part of the template; the base human is going to have several levels of Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, or some other combative class just to pass the selection trials. And probably gain one or two more during the active training that goes along with the modification process to turn him into a Marine.

[Solo]

If you go with the fluff, Marines are recruited from only the best of the best from an entire planet's population. They don't need extra HD as part of the template; the base human is going to have several levels of Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, or some other combative class just to pass the selection trials. And probably gain one or two more during the active training that goes along with the modification process to turn him into a Marine.

And they'll probably have higher base stats before adjustment.

[Duke Malagigi]

Genetically Augmented Template:

+6 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con, +2 Cha
Add 1' to base height.
Gain Alertness, Iron Will, Endurance, Improved Toughness and Exotic Armor Proficiency (Power Armor) as bonus feats.
Gain +1 to all saves, and +4 additional versus poison.
Reduce time needed to sleep by 3/4 (so 6 hours if normally 8 hours).
Gain low-light vision.
Gain immunity to non-magical causes of blood loss, and automatically stabilize if dropped under 0 hp.
Gain the ability to hold your breath four times longer than normal, and increased ability to survive in low-atmosphere or toxic environments(to be clarified later).
Gain immunity to the Nauseated and Dazed effects.
Live 10x longer than normal (use elf chart for easy reference)
Gain fire resistance 10.

Level Adjustment: +3

Cuirithir (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65463) would just love to have one of these guys as his solders. If it weren't for the xenophobia and anti-science sentiment he might like the Imperium. Besides, technically Mephistopheles isn't a Chaos God.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Genetically Augmented Template:

+6 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con, +2 Cha
Add 1' to base height.
Gain Alertness, Iron Will, Endurance, Improved Toughness and Exotic Armor Proficiency (Power Armor) as bonus feats.
Gain +1 to all saves, and +4 additional versus poison.
Reduce time needed to sleep by 3/4 (so 6 hours if normally 8 hours).
Gain low-light vision.
Gain immunity to non-magical causes of blood loss, and automatically stabilize if dropped under 0 hp.
Gain the ability to hold your breath four times longer than normal, and increased ability to survive in low-atmosphere or toxic environments(to be clarified later).
Gain immunity to the Nauseated and Dazed effects.
Live 10x longer than normal (use elf chart for easy reference)
Gain fire resistance 10.

Level Adjustment: +3



Power Armor:
The armor weighs 250 pounds, but adds only 70 pounds to encumbrance, as it supports much of its own weight. It requires 10 minutes to get into or out of the clockwork armor, as sections of it are bolted on, secured with wire cables, and some joints require careful fitting of gears and servo connections.

When the clockwork armor is worn, the wearer gains an effective +4 circumstance bonus to both Strength and Dexterity, as the armor enhances speed, precision, and raw power of its wearer's movements. In addition, it provides a +8 armor bonus to AC and increases the wearer's base land speed by 5 feet.

Now that is a nice template...maybe to simulate the intense training that goes along with it to say that only 4th level fighters and above are selected for training and they must have certian minimum stats to join...then perhaps a marine PrC, the first level (that they gain when they complete training) grants immunity to fear and some fluff...As they gain levels in 'Marine' they gain other abilities and powers...maybe it also stands for rank and grants access to the 'armory'. A Sgt. (rank 4 marine?) is accompanied by 4-9 lvl 1-3 marines...a vet sgt by more or becomes eligible for terminator armor...a captian is accompanied by even better guys and a lvl 10 Marine is a Force Commander and gets a command retinue of DOOM!.

Kinda like how the old 2nd ed druids got automatic followers...perhaps a modified form of 'leadership'.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Ya know...this kinda reminds me of when I crossed Battle Tech elementals into DnD...for that I used ogre mage as a template for physicals applied to a medium creature...the elemental suit was pretty much an internally operated iron golem with some special attacks (ranged touch beam of doom, Aoe missles, machine gun) Lots of fun...

[Kizara]

Now that is a nice template...maybe to simulate the intense training that goes along with it to say that only 4th level fighters and above are selected for training and they must have certian minimum stats to join...then perhaps a marine PrC, the first level (that they gain when they complete training) grants immunity to fear and some fluff...As they gain levels in 'Marine' they gain other abilities and powers...maybe it also stands for rank and grants access to the 'armory'. A Sgt. (rank 4 marine?) is accompanied by 4-9 lvl 1-3 marines...a vet sgt by more or becomes eligible for terminator armor...a captian is accompanied by even better guys and a lvl 10 Marine is a Force Commander and gets a command retinue of DOOM!.

Kinda like how the old 2nd ed druids got automatic followers...perhaps a modified form of 'leadership'.

As requested:

Space Marine

HD: d12
Requirements:
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Skills: Survival (space) 8 ranks, Knowledge (tactics) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (any blaster or sword), Weapon Specialization (any blaster or sword), Armor Specialization (Power Armor).
Special: Must be immune to Fear.
Must have served with distinction in the Imperial Marine Corps, and be accepted into the elite order of the Imperial Space Marines.
This class must be taken with both sides of a Gestalt.


Class Skills:
The class skills for the space marine (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (tactics) (Int), Piloting (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Survival (space) (Wis).
Skills Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features:

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: The space marine is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with missile launchers, flammers, plasma weapons and energy rifles, all types of grenades and explosives and with all armor, including power armor.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Enhancement +2, Divine Smite 1/day -
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Sleeplessness, Divine Blessing -
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Divine Power, Divine Might -
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Enhancement +4, Armour Superiority -
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Melee and Ranged Weapon Mastery. Smite 2/day -
6th +6 +5 +2 +5 Divine Ordinance, Righteous Might -
7th +7 +5 +2 +5 Enhancement +6, Enhanced Mobility -
8th +8 +6 +2 +6 Melee or Ranged Weapon Supremacy -
9th +9 +6 +3 +6 Overpower, Protection of Dogma -
10th +10 +7 +3 +7 Enhancement +8, Unstoppable, Divine Smite 3/day -


Enchancement (Ex):
The space marine gains this bonus as a divine bonus to Strength and Constitution, and half this bonus to dexterity.

Divine Smite (Su): The space marine can smite the enemies of the Emperor, adding his charisma bonus to attack and his class level to damage. Any paladin levels stack for the purpose of calculating the damage of this attack. The creature struck need not be of a specific alignment or type: as long as it's considered an enemy of the Emperor by the Space Marines, and too unclean to live.

Sleeplessness (Ex): A space marine need only to sleep for 6 hours a week, at any time during that week.

Divine Blessing (Su): The space marine gains a +4 insight bonus to initiative and damage as well as an additional 12 hit points and a +5 ft increase to their base movement speed.

Divine Power (Sp): The space marine can use divine power as a cleric of twice his class level, 4 times per day.

Divine Might (Su): You gain Divine Might as a bonus feat if you meet the prerequisites. However, the bonus to damage lasts a number of rounds equal to half your Charisma modifier (minimum 1 round).

Armor Superiority (Ex): When wearing masterwork or otherwise advanced power armor, you gain DR 8/-. This overrides the bonus from Armor Specialization.

Melee and Ranged Weapon Mastery (Ex): You gain Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing) and Ranged Weapon Mastery (energy weapons) as bonus feats, even if you do not meet the prerequisites for these feats.

Divine Ordinance (Su): Any munitions you fire, from energy bolts, grenades to missiles, deals an additional 1d6 points of divine damage and also deals half of their normal damage as divine damage. For instance, if you shot someone with a rifle that normally did 4d6 points of fire damage, it instead would do 2d6 points of fire damage + 3d6 points of divine damage. Also, any ordnance you fire is considered blessed.
(divine damage is energy damage that is of no specific type)

Righteous Might (Sp): The space marine can use righteous might as a cleric of twice his class level, 4 times per day.

Melee or Ranged Weapon Supremacy (Ex): You gain Weapon Supremacy with the weapon you originally had Weapon Specialization in.

Overpower (Su): Twice per day, the space marine can become Overpowering for a number of rounds equal to his Constitution modifier. He gains a +4 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, as well as a +10 morale bonus to any bull rush, overrun, sunder, attempts he makes. However, he suffers a -2 penalty to AC. He also gains the +10 bonus on melee damage rolls when he charges, on grapple checks, and on Strength checks to break objects or force open doors. Furthermore, he gains the benefit of the freedom of movement spell for the duration of this ability.

Protection of Dogma (Ex): The space marine’s zealous devotion and faith in his cause and himself protect him from outside influences. He gains a +8 morale bonus against charms, compulsions and enchantment effects.

Unstoppable (Su): At level 10, the space marine gains the ability to become Unstoppable once a day. He gains all the benefits of Overpower (without using a daily usage of that ability) and also gains the following benefits:
+6 resistance bonus to saves
Resistance to fire, cold, acid, electricity and sonic 20
Immunity to 6th level and lower spell effects.
Fast Healing 20
+20ft base movement speed

I was making this up for a chaplain, was abandoned as the campaign never got anywhere. I made up a whole fricken weapon system and stuff too... *SIGH*

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Now...to find a way to make Chaplins and Librarians...

Chaplin probably could be part of this PrC with a choice made by the marine as to which path to go down at around 6th level PrC...Captian/commander or Chaplin.

Librarian might be a separate class all together with the same strict conditions for joining it...plus a few levels as a regular marine and either 'wild talent' or some level of manifester. Librarians would be allowed to learn special 'marine only' psychic powers...

Or, it could be a template like 'half celestial' with a prereq like 'wild talent or 1st level manifester+ only) that gains access to powers as the character's HD increases. I would say they gain certian powers usuable at will, and each power has a will save associated with it...each use of the power forces a will save...if they fail, they take 3d6 damage...if this damage kills them BAD stuff happens.