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Glyde
2007-12-27, 11:54 PM
Dammit, Eldath.

I'm currently playing an Ibixian Priestess of Eldath, and following him means I have to make sure that neither me or my party kills a thinking being unless the situation is 'dire'. If we win the battle and the enemies aren't dead, but bleeding, I usually bend down to stabilize them, maybe throwing a cure minor on the ones really close to kicking the bucket.

Here's where things get messy. A newer player is playing a chaotic evil fighter, and tends to enjoy 'finishing off' his foes. It took a lot of lecturing and a twist on Sanctuary to save even the child of evil parents from this character. I'm wondering if anybody out there has experience dealing with this kind of character, and have any advice. I don't want to do the "I refuse to travel with ____" because it'd cause too much real life drama. Also, so far the other characters haven't been the most helpful other than a couple, and they aren't exactly the kinds of characters that are able to hold back a fighter.

Methabroax
2007-12-27, 11:59 PM
Your DM is allowing a Chaotic Evil Fighter in a game where your trying to play a pacifist. Give up your hippie non violent ways, turn Chaotic Evil yourself and hold person the fighter. Chop him into medium sized chunks. When the Buzzards circles the chunks you've left of him and his new character spawns, say "that's what you get when you mess with the bull" ....


Or, if that doesnt work for you, withhold healing and buffs from anyone in the party unless it's "DIRE" and that's how it will be until behaviour is corrected. Even if your a pacifist, i'm sure the rest of the party will realize the value of getting him to tow the line (at least when your around)...

Just my two cents,

Methabroax

kemmotar
2007-12-28, 12:02 AM
Well my first impulse would be to change character...but i think that wasn't the point of the question...if the player is actively trying to go against you both OOC and IC then it's a deeper problem...if he's playing his character normally then you can:
a) use a helmet of alignment change on him
b) boost your diplomacy to the heavens and avoid every combat
c)either kill or be killed in a duel between your character and his...you can provoke him into attacking you so that would make it a dire situation...assuming you have enough power and you do it after battle when he's worn out you should win...though that isn't very nice...

If you want there is a diplomancer build on the wotc forums i can link for you so you can get some ideas...

Glyde
2007-12-28, 12:07 AM
So far I've evaded combat with him using my Ibixian charm (+4 intimidate and 18 charisma <3), but I'm sure at some point things will boil down to a fight. Eldath's dogma doesn't say anything about beating him to within an inch of his life and keeping him there.

OOC he's fine. He's given the "It's how my chracter would act" excuse. I'm going to talk to the DM and see what we can do about him and his little sprees. Any other suggestions? We're still fairly low-end so I don't have access to crazy spells or items.

Solo
2007-12-28, 12:09 AM
Geas.

or

Helm of Opposite Alignment

or

Go Clericzilla and dominate.... with nonlethal damage and disabling spells.

or

[INSERT SPELL HERE]


Have fun!

Methabroax
2007-12-28, 12:13 AM
If the guy is using 'its how my character would act' I doubt being magically dominated will fix his behavior. I think your best bet is to get the rest of your party on your side and use peer pressure to effect the change you want to see in him. He may be evil, but a dungeon is a lonely place if you have no friends.

Inyssius Tor
2007-12-28, 12:15 AM
Try to have fun dealing with him. If you can't, talk to him out of game.

Really. If you can't have fun with your current situation, and he doesn't realize that, just telling him will probably correct the situation. If he knows that you hate it (if you do), and he's actively trying to ruin your game--then you have an entirely different problem.

EDIT: Okay, ninja'd by the OP. So you've done the above, and he's cool. So yeah, I would recommend withholding buffs and healing. If that's not dramatic/fun enough for you, this whole situation is prime character development fuel. Let your hatred of him tempt you into doing something you'll regret, maybe?

kemmotar
2007-12-28, 12:15 AM
Well the DM can use his power to say that the righteous anger and frustration of "insert character's name" has brought him to the attention of his god who will either grant him some power against beings that with no regard to life kill anyone, or just plain curse the other character to only be able to fight in dire situations and not be able to finish off dying characters...that doesn't mean though he can't just let them bleed to death...Thus, when the whole party fights he can too, he just can't be as evil as he wants...then he can go on a side quest to get rid of the curse...everyone loves sidequests...

Glyde
2007-12-28, 12:21 AM
Most of these I hadn't thought of. Thanks :D

Keep them coming, though. The more I think about the situation the more it's becoming a great opportunity for character development on my part.

Mark Hall
2007-12-28, 12:23 AM
You are in a very, very difficult position.

As others have said, many of your options are going to involve restraining the fighter. Entangle (if you have it), Command (Sleep), Calm Emotions, Obscuring Mist (can't hit what he can't see)... look at spells not for their butt-kicking potential, but for their ability to diffuse fights (which is why Calm Emotions beats Hold Person... stops more people, and stops them from being angry, as opposed to just stopping them from fighting, and on the same save).

Carry a net and use it; even untrained, the touch attacks with it will be easy.

Oh, and a great one my younger brother used, when playing a priest of Ilmater confronted with two CNs who described themselves as insane? He paid for Heal to be cast on them, so they would no longer be crazy. The DM said "Ok, you're not crazy now. It's all fixed. What was your alignment like before you went insane?"

Miles Invictus
2007-12-28, 12:25 AM
Have a private, out-of-character discussion with the other player and the DM. Be civil and diplomatic. It'll let you figure out if he's overindulging in his character's evil, or if he's deliberately griefing.

Edit: I see you've already spoken to him. I vote that the next time you guys finish up a tough battle, you kill his character. Given his past behavior, any reasonable person would consider the situation "dire" enough to warrant killing him.

horseboy
2007-12-28, 12:45 AM
Hmm, if I was in the situation, I'd stop him from killing people off by giving him great, big hugs. Then tell mutter something droll, like, "it's okay", "it's not your fault," or "Shhh, let it go, just let it go." Until he either gets really pissed off, or his character breaks down into a Freudian fit.

Mark Hall
2007-12-28, 12:51 AM
Hmm, if I was in the situation, I'd stop him from killing people off by giving him great, big hugs. Then tell mutter something droll, like, "it's okay", "it's not your fault," or "Shhh, let it go, just let it go." Until he either gets really pissed off, or his character breaks down into a Freudian fit.

Hee-hee. That's hilarious.

Miles Invictus
2007-12-28, 01:00 AM
...and if that doesn't work, start doing it to him out-of-character, too.

Glyde
2007-12-28, 01:01 AM
...and if that doesn't work, start doing it to him out-of-character, too.

I'm gonna try this.

Yami
2007-12-28, 01:11 AM
Honestly the "It's how my character would act arguement" is him stating that he wanted to play a jerk. Which is all fine and well, but it doesn't change the facts. Sadly your pacifism prevents the easy answer; coup de grace when it's your turn on watch.

I think cursing his sheath should be apropriate. When he draws his blade, you know it's not going to be for a good cause. Also, how does your deity feel about taking out contacts against this character? I mean, killing is prohibited, I got that. But what's the difference between allowing your party member to finish off a downed foe and paying someone to eliminate said threat?

And lastly, but most importantly, how does your DM define the word 'Dire'?

horseboy
2007-12-28, 01:13 AM
Hee-hee. That's hilarious.

Funny AND "It's what my character would do." :smallwink:

Cuddly
2007-12-28, 01:14 AM
Hold, tie, turn him in. Tell him to roll a new character.

mabriss lethe
2007-12-28, 01:17 AM
If you're high enough level (5th for a cleric, I think) cast bestow curse upon him. You could use one of the standard applications, but I would think of something suitably nasty, like not being able to abide the touch of an empliment of death. Or maybe make it so that he becomes physically ill at the sight of blood. Or that he feels the pain of any wound he gives out of malice, say that he takes nonlethal damage equal to the damage he dishes out in any situation except self defense. Run that one by the DM. Refuse to remove the curse until he can learn to behave.

If you're not high enough level, you do as someone else mentioned and pay a more powerful magician to do it for you. Set it up so that you tell your fellow adventurers that you've arranged a group blessing from a higher up in your temple. They go up one by one to recieve the blessing, but when the evil fighter's turn comes, the cleric bestows the curse upon him instead. Feel free to make up some story about how the gods have placed their judgement upon him for his wicked ways. Worth the 150 gp.

EDIT: I see that I've been slightly ninja'd by Yami.

Accersitus
2007-12-28, 01:28 AM
How about casting a bestow curse on his char, since the spell let's you design
your own curse. How about giving him a curse that drains his strength a lot
(or something similar) for
24hours (or more/less) each time he kills a helpless/dying creature.
considering not many clerics would dispell that curse from a Chaotic Evil
person without getting a lot of gold/a big favor. Since the curse is permanent
without a removal spell, it would be extra nice if you could cast the spell without the fighter noticing ^^

mabriss lethe
2007-12-28, 01:34 AM
Bestow Curse is a touch spell, use it on him after combat the next time he gets hurt when he thinks you'll be casting a cure X wounds spell on him. Convince the DM to roll spellcraft for the fighter (if applicable) secretly to see if he'll figure out that the spell you're casting isn't a cure spell.

Miles Invictus
2007-12-28, 01:42 AM
Not applicable. Spellcraft is "Trained Only".

Mark Hall
2007-12-28, 01:42 AM
IIRC, Eldath is against cursing people to change their ways. "Peace can only come from within and cannot be taught or imposed. ... Nurture and aid, and do not restrict or punish."

So, cursing the CE fighter to make him not CE is not kosher. Now calming him via magic is acceptable (since it's a better alternative to killing him), but you have to get to the root of why he's CE.

Cuddly
2007-12-28, 01:47 AM
I like the hugging and shushing idea, best.

Yami
2007-12-28, 01:49 AM
wow. How has the Cult of Eldath not died out yet? Honestly.

Peace cannot be taught? Don't kill?

Seems like a recipt for disaster.

Cuddly
2007-12-28, 01:54 AM
wow. How has the Cult of Eldath not died out yet? Honestly.

Peace cannot be taught? Don't kill?

Seems like a recipt for disaster.

You know, except when your entire church is composed of diplomancers and C-zillas.

Hallavast
2007-12-28, 02:05 AM
Dammit, Eldath.

I'm currently playing an Ibixian Priestess of Eldath, and following him means I have to make sure that neither me or my party kills a thinking being unless the situation is 'dire'. If we win the battle and the enemies aren't dead, but bleeding, I usually bend down to stabilize them, maybe throwing a cure minor on the ones really close to kicking the bucket.

Here's where things get messy. A newer player is playing a chaotic evil fighter, and tends to enjoy 'finishing off' his foes. It took a lot of lecturing and a twist on Sanctuary to save even the child of evil parents from this character. I'm wondering if anybody out there has experience dealing with this kind of character, and have any advice. I don't want to do the "I refuse to travel with ____" because it'd cause too much real life drama. Also, so far the other characters haven't been the most helpful other than a couple, and they aren't exactly the kinds of characters that are able to hold back a fighter.

It sounds like you should re-evaluate playing a Cleric of Eldath. Your character concept doesn't seem to fit in with the party template. On the other hand, it could be the fighter that doesn't fit. Either way, it is very improbable that the two characters would be able to co-exist in the same party. In a realistic situation, your character would have left this brute's company long ago. Continuing your association with him would be out of character. This means either you or he leaves the party (or the party gets split). If I were you, I'd roll up another character and save your current one for a more suitable campaign. Otherwise, you're stuck with either waiting for him to reroll, or metagaming your character.... or both.

Lord_Asmodeus
2007-12-28, 02:18 AM
describe "finishing foes" if by that you mean killing in the midst of battle, I don't see the problem, if by "finishing foes" you mean he kills his enemies after the actual battle while they're downed thats a different problem entirely.

Solo
2007-12-28, 02:19 AM
IIRC, Eldath is against cursing people to change their ways. "Peace can only come from within and cannot be taught or imposed. ... Nurture and aid, and do not restrict or punish."


Clerics are proficient in Morningstars.

Nurture and aid the CE fighter by going Clericzilla on him, knocking him out, and having him wake up to a choice: Either have his kneecaps broken or suddenly attain peace from within.


:smalltongue:

MammonAzrael
2007-12-28, 02:32 AM
Knock him out when in town, and have him arrested by your church. Your church won't harm him, but won't let him go as long as he remains CE. Have your friend roll up a new character. It's in character for you, and your only other real choice is leaving the party. And that still leaves your cleric not having done anything about someone he knows is CE, which doesn't make sense.

Cuddly
2007-12-28, 02:34 AM
There's a spell that entombs someone for a year, and upon the spells end, the person exits a good person.

Yami
2007-12-28, 02:38 AM
You know, except when your entire church is composed of diplomancers and C-zillas.

Well... Damn.

Can't really argue with that. And it gives me a new idea for a campaign...

Lord_Asmodeus
2007-12-28, 02:44 AM
I never liked the idea of trying to force someone to be good, especially when its a good character doing it, it somehow just makes me mad, maybe its because I dislike the idea of forcing someone to be something they're not :smallannoyed:
Also, if he's a fighter, how could all these plans where you knock him out WORK without applying an amount of force that would be rather fatal?

Mark Hall
2007-12-28, 03:03 AM
Clerics are proficient in Morningstars.

Nurture and aid the CE fighter by going Clericzilla on him, knocking him out, and having him wake up to a choice: Either have his kneecaps broken or suddenly attain peace from within.


:smalltongue:

I think that would be a bit of an imposition. :smallamused:

Seriously, I think the Cleric of Eldath is one of the HARDEST characters to play in D&D. Most D&D parties are set up around killing people and taking their stuff. Clerics of Eldath are set up around convincing people that peace is a better way to live. It's a very hard row to hoe.

dyslexicfaser
2007-12-28, 03:10 AM
Chaotic Evil fighter and Ibixian pacifist; it's like the Odd Couple, but with swords.

I think this situation is exacerbated by both of you; CE is usually a bad idea except in a pure evil group, but it is also not a good idea to try and dictate your party's actions ala the most LG of paladins.

Miles Invictus
2007-12-28, 03:48 AM
The CE player is at fault here; he's a newer player to the group, and should have made a character that played well with the existing ones. It sounds like he didn't even make a token effort.

Funkyodor
2007-12-28, 05:10 AM
CE shouldn't mean that he runs around ruthlessly killing everyone, even when they are beaten and down. But now that he knows you are a pacifist cleric that abhors killing except when in "Dire" conditions. He should be focusing on getting you to kill someone and convince you that it wasn't necessary. That would be the most evil thing to do. A good cleric with no spells or turning ability, that should be his ultimate goal. The moment you can convince the player or character that this should be his focus, you set the engagement parameters. Don't screw up and you won't have a problem.

Swordguy
2007-12-28, 05:44 AM
I had a situation like this playing Shadowrun. Here was my solution:

Shadowrun has a bunch of drugs. They give pretty nifty mechanical bonuses, but several of them are considered permanently addictive (that is, you NEVER get clean), and the withdrawal symptoms are mechanically horrifying. Naturally, being a "thou shalt not kill" pacifist shaman, I acquired some top-of-the-line drugs (from a new book that he didn't have), and laced his food with them. Once he realized that he was getting mechanical bonuses (I told him that the were herbal combat supplements), he loved me, because it boosted his combat ability so much.

Then he killed someone in a fight. I lectured him about not killing someone, and he blew me off. So I didn't give him his next dose of drugs. BOOM! Instant massive withdrawal penalties. You can probably see now where this went. Long story short, over time, I trained him (in a Pavlovian fashion) to use tasers and other stunning weapons that were incapable of killing in exchange for keeping him up with a regular drug supply. It was his informed choice (both IC and OOC). He had the freedom to keep killing - I sure couldn't stop him. But the penalties were so severe that it was easier for him to stop doing so rather than trigger those penalties. And I wasn't hurting him at all - he was hurting himself when the penalties kicked in. I simply provided a motive.

I think BoVD has some drugs. You might want to give them a shot (get the DM in on it too, so he can make it impossible for the guy to get magically clean).

Kristoss
2007-12-28, 06:12 AM
Swordguy I have to say your solution is definitely evil. It is pretty much shock therapy, and purposely getting someone addicted to drugs too.

Swordguy
2007-12-28, 06:32 AM
Swordguy I have to say your solution is definitely evil. It is pretty much shock therapy, and purposely getting someone addicted to drugs too.

Drugs aren't inherently evil, and using them to compel behavior is no different than the promise of going "someplace bad" after you die if you do bad things.

Now, if I was using them to compel him to do bad (Evil) things, THEN I'd be bad for forcing him to do them. Mind-control in D&D has always been an Evil act if you force people to do bad things with it. It's unclear whether that works the other direction or not.

Cuddly
2007-12-28, 06:43 AM
It's a very hard row to hoe.

Yeah, I got a hard ho that rows, but I ain't complaining.

Fixer
2007-12-28, 07:44 AM
Swordguy I have to say your solution is definitely evil. It is pretty much shock therapy, and purposely getting someone addicted to drugs too.

Technically, according to RAW it is not evil. It is very much in the grey area of neutral-land when it comes to ethics. It IS, however, somewhat chaotic because it is not law-abiding (unless the drug is legal). The same argument can be made that it is lawful, because it protects the public at the cost of an individual.

It is basically passive mind control. Because of this the action that is caused by the act of drugging the fighter is the alignment of this action. Because the desired action is the prevention of slaughter and the (if unknowning) redeption of evil, that would make the act of drugging this CE character into behaving Good a good act, even if it is something of a perversion of good.

If you decide to take this route, I recommend Vodare (DC 14 save vs addiction when drugs are not available or take 1d6 Dex, 1d6 Wis, and 1d6 Con damage each day). It grants a +2 to Intimidate checks and saves vs fear for 1d4 hours, a -4 to Diplomacy and bluff for 2d4 hours, and mild euphoria and fierce confidence. Overdoses cause the user to become catatonic (DC 15 Fort negates) for an unspecified duration.

You can also try Mordayn Vapor (same addiction DC as Vodare), which produces exotic visions for d20+10 minutes and 1d4 Con and 1d4 Wis damage. It also has the side effect of making the druggie want more (DC 17 will save) and, for the next 1d4 hours, to do 'whatever is necessary' to get the next dose of the drug (which, ironically, could include behaving peacefully). Overdoses are potentially lethal as well.

To gain access to these drugs, use the 1st level cleric spell called Extract Drug to yank it out of air (Mordayn Vapor) and stone (Vodare). By memorizing only one per day you can restrict his access and make sure you always have the drug handy. Stone is generally easy to come by and air is everywhere your characters will be. Each casting requires 15 pounds or 1 cubic foot of the substance.

Swordguy
2007-12-28, 07:51 AM
Technically, according to RAW it is not evil. It is very much in the grey area of neutral-land when it comes to ethics. It IS, however, somewhat chaotic because it is not law-abiding (unless the drug is legal). The same argument can be made that it is lawful, because it protects the public at the cost of an individual.

...


Thank you. You said it more clearly than I could have - and had some excellent drugs to back it up.

*applause*

Xuincherguixe
2007-12-28, 08:08 AM
*giggles at Swordguy*

Awesome way to handle the situation.


Normally in situations like these, I would say that you should try and work things out. Without resorting to heavy handed measures like Helm's of Opposite alignment. Dude wants to play a Chaotic Evil character. Not a Knight in shining armor.

Tell him to act evil in other ways than murder. This has the added benefit of that the character isn't going to be just another generic psychopath. Seriously, psychopaths have a lot more potential than just for murdering. For instance, beating people down with their own limbs screaming "Stop hitting yourself!" or coming up with their own personal mythology full of dark gods with inpronouncable names. Mixing up lies and delusions. Randomly say something very insightful.

The guy should only be a little disruptive. Not ruin everyone's fun.


All that being said, I probably would not have let the new guy play, unless I wanted to create conflict. And then I'd want to make sure everyone was okay with it. Even then I probably wouldn't go for it. And I like evil characters.

I also probably wouldn't let anyone play a pacifist in a D&D campaign either, unless it was a very heavily modified campaign. It's too centered in monstrous death.


Try and work it out out of character, and if that doesn't work than things just aren't going to work.

Kristoss
2007-12-28, 09:01 AM
Thank you. You said it more clearly than I could have - and had some excellent drugs to back it up.

*applause*

But what about the effect of the withdrawal symptoms (especially those symptoms that cause intense pain) have no effect on the alignment.

Learnedguy
2007-12-28, 09:06 AM
Technically, you're ruining his game as much as he's ruining yours. So here's what I'd do. I'd think "Gee, how would my character react?"

Now, considering the fact that your guys is a pacifist, I doubt he'd go "I better beat him up!"

No instead, I think your guy would be "Moral rant!", am I correct?

Now, let the other player know this, and both of you should prepare into going into long philosophical debates about it. And then?

Cash in the role-playing experience:smalltongue:

Swordguy
2007-12-28, 09:09 AM
But what about the effect of the withdrawal symptoms (especially those symptoms that cause intense pain) have no effect on the alignment.

Those symptoms are completely avoided if the addict decides not to kill people. Not killing people is a good thing. It's also his choice to do so or not, and so to induce the symptoms or not.

I'm trying to come with a real-world analogy that's legal per the board rules. The closest I've got so far is the way the Catholic Church uses guilt to cause emotional pain that is kept away by not doing bad things - but I'm not sure if it counts as a "religous" discussion per se - so I'll not go further into it.

Zenos
2007-12-28, 11:50 AM
Use diplomacy to convert him to your religion?
(I tried this once on a pyromaniac wizard played by my older brother, it didn't actualy convert him but at least his character got some more respect for me, I played a bard)

Otherwise, pay a psychiatrist to "heal" him.

Fixer
2007-12-28, 11:57 AM
The problem with any in-game solutions is that the player of that character chose to play that character as well as the fact that the GM allowed such a character to be introduced (either through ignorance or application).

The medication/drug approach allows the PC a choice to behave or suffer the consequences. The compulsion/enchantment approach completely removes player choice and is more likely to cause negative player behavior.

Truthfully, this is a rock/hard place situation that only personal knowledge of the parties involved can resolve.

Telonius
2007-12-28, 12:59 PM
Maybe a dose of Owl's Wisdom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html) might help? :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, the way you take it really depends on whether the character is Chaotic Evil, or Chaotic Stupid. If it's CS, there's nothing you can do but hope the dragon eats it, and refuse to raise him afterwards. If it's CE, you can either work on the Chaotic or the Evil side of things. Manufacture some situation where acting dishonorably directly results in something bad happening. Maybe take a Craft Item feat, and make something that's really useful to him ... that benefits only neutral or better. With a built-in Phylactery of Faithfulness.

Glyde
2007-12-28, 01:13 PM
Just to elaborate on how he goes about his evil: At the end of the latest combat when I bent down to do my healing checks he beheaded the ones I wasn't working on. His excuse for it is because his character "wants to become stronger."

I'm going to tell him out of game that if he wants to play an evil character, it doesn't have to be "Kill everything" when taking prisoners would be a better alternative. I like the "stop hitting yourself" idea, or the getting another cleric to curse him.

Thanks for the input guys. To the people who told me to reroll: lol. I rolled the character for a reason. I've played way too many combat centered characters in my D&D career, and I'm not about to give up one of the most interesting ones to roleplay that I've created.

Also, keep the stories coming. This topic's more interesting than I thought XD

malagigi
2007-12-28, 01:22 PM
Here's a question: What is holding your group together? Why do they do stuff together? This is really important in addressing your situation.

If it's a "Because we're the PC's" sort of game, then ask yourself what your character would do (which is no less than what the CE character is doing). I for one do not hang around with people who's philosophy is incompatible with my own, particularly when sharp objects are involved. But what would your character do? Have him arrested? Talk to the rest of the party on an aside and part company with the CE character (or if necessary have your character part company with the rest of party).

If your party has some broader purpose, you've got to synthesize this into the character's thinking obviously.

The flip side of the coin is, PC conflict may be what you are all after. If this is the case, it might be wise to set some OoC ground rules to keep everything from ending in tears (literal - metaphorical, you decide). What keeps the dramatic tension high without blowing up in someone's face? I think that would be the ideal approach in this instance. I ran a Star Wars game with a former Padiwan, Sith Acolyte, and Spacer all on the run from the Empire, and I got everyone on the same page with this sort of approach. Circumstances compelled them to work together, and the tension in the party was great (especially for me, I got to spend half of every game watching inner-party sparks fly). It can be really great, but probably best when the players know each other and how to play off of each other.

Any way you cut it, your character is in individual of action, so take action. There's plenty of entertaining ideas in the thread, so pick the one you like and go for it. There's no reason you should act out of character all the time so someone else can act in character all the time.

Telonius
2007-12-28, 01:39 PM
Just to elaborate on how he goes about his evil: At the end of the latest combat when I bent down to do my healing checks he beheaded the ones I wasn't working on. His excuse for it is because his character "wants to become stronger."

I'm going to tell him out of game that if he wants to play an evil character, it doesn't have to be "Kill everything" when taking prisoners would be a better alternative. I like the "stop hitting yourself" idea, or the getting another cleric to curse him.

Thanks for the input guys. To the people who told me to reroll: lol. I rolled the character for a reason. I've played way too many combat centered characters in my D&D career, and I'm not about to give up one of the most interesting ones to roleplay that I've created.

Also, keep the stories coming. This topic's more interesting than I thought XD

... the character does not get any additional XP for beheading already-defeated foes. He gets XP for defeating foes. The only way he gets "stronger" by doing so is working out his muscles. Sign him up as an executioner for a few weeks if he doesn't believe you. :smallbiggrin:

Glyde
2007-12-28, 06:50 PM
Alright, so I talked to the DM. If his character doesn't smarten up we're going to have a priest from a different church 'bless' us, but I'll have arranged a little something special for our chaotic friend before hand. Should be interesting.

Also going to tell him to play more chaotic than evil out of game.

Tokiko Mima
2007-12-28, 07:19 PM
How about laying a Quest (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm), Mark of Justice (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/markOfJustice.htm), or both on the offending warrior (Suggestions for Quest: Convert to the Church of Eldath)? I mean, you know when and where he sleeps and he's helpless during that time. Granted, it might cause some resentment from the player, but he's the one that causing an issue with your god.

I think it's a great chance to work on your dynamic with the new player, as it give the new player a chance to have someone experienced in the party interact with them. Rivalry can be fun, and it sounds like you already have the oppositional energy flowing. Try to phrase this as an opportunity to roleplay with him, rather than a negative consequence of his warriors actions. :smallsmile:

Glyde
2007-12-28, 07:30 PM
Quest sounds like it'd be fun, and since he'd be a fighter of Eldath he wouldn't have to abide by the dogma so he could still do fightery things. Just let me do my healing.

It's for sure a good opportunity to roleplay with a new player. The only problem is I don't know if he sees it that way. I'll mention that too in my chat.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-12-28, 08:25 PM
Combine the hugging and druggy options. Make a hippy cult.

Lord_Asmodeus
2007-12-28, 09:13 PM
No offense but by this point, If I was playing a CE character, I probably would have slit your throat in your sleep by now :smallannoyed: Pacifists kind of annoy me, and I'm True Neutral (or pretty close to, definitely Neutral of some sort. it), now imagine what a psychopathic homicidal evil guy would do.

Glyde
2007-12-28, 09:58 PM
No offense but by this point, If I was playing a CE character, I probably would have slit your throat in your sleep by now :smallannoyed: Pacifists kind of annoy me, and I'm True Neutral (or pretty close to, definitely Neutral of some sort. it), now imagine what a psychopathic homicidal evil guy would do.



He's Chaotic Evil not Chaotic Stupid.

Lord_Asmodeus
2007-12-28, 10:00 PM
He's Chaotic Evil not Chaotic Stupid.

yea see that annoys me too, most "smart" chaotic evil people would have slit your throat long ago, because they would have foreseen your not taking their... well EVIL very nicely, and they probably thought it was funny.

p.s. I'm using "slit your throat" as a generic term generally meaning "get rid of you/out of the way"

Glyde
2007-12-28, 10:03 PM
He's Chaotic Evil, not Chaotic Stupid. He has enough int to know that he's never going to be left on watch alone, and the rest of the party would kill him if he did something like that. Also, I heal his ass.

Also, he's a friend in real life.

Triaxx
2007-12-28, 10:08 PM
I think even my LG paladin might want to beat your Cleric to death. Sort of an 'Excuse me, I just went to considerable effort to stop them from hurting us, and now you're making them better?' moment.

Try playing a slightly different pacifist. Instead of 'No, you can't kill them', try playing a 'I wouldn't help you fight them, but I won't stop you from killing them. Just don't ask me to do it.'

This might not fit the character, I don't know it's the first I've heard of it, but it might make for a slightly more interesting version, while leaving Mr. CE to his own devices. Let your character have a Crisis of Faith if you want, loose all cleric spells for a few days until you come to the new revelation.

Lord_Asmodeus
2007-12-28, 10:09 PM
He's Chaotic Evil, not Chaotic Stupid. He has enough int to know that he's never going to be left on watch alone, and the rest of the party would kill him if he did something like that. Also, I heal his ass.

Also, he's a friend in real life.

... I'm defending the IN CHARACTER position, why a chaotic evil person would want you out of the way. And how do you define "chaotic stupid", because any reasonably smart evil characters would have foreseen you not liking their actions, and doing something about it, and they would do something about that. Agreeably he might not do something like say, kill you outright, but he might at least try to get his fellow members to agree with him and not you, so yes maybe beheading foes is stressing his boundaries as a Chaotic Evil character a little, but in my experience, killing ones enemies is something evil people like to do.

Glyde
2007-12-28, 10:14 PM
They'd just go "Oh, CE Fighter. You're such a card." I've already gained the respect of the rest of the party. He has a lot more fun going against my beliefs than physically harming me anyways. If he wanted nothing to be in his way then he would've left the party, instead he stays knowing that he needs a group to accomplish his goals.

Also, I can't play a 'slightly different pacifist.' If I can prevent things from dying, then I have to.

Lord_Asmodeus
2007-12-28, 10:18 PM
So then he's sticking with the party out of a combination of need and amusement, well from my experiences trying to "pull one over" on an evil character essentially sticking around for lulz (among other things of course) generally works out badly, but thats just from my experience.

Glyde
2007-12-28, 10:20 PM
Like I said, it's a new player, so he's more or less sticking around just for the lulz.

Guancyto
2007-12-28, 10:33 PM
He has a lot more fun going against my beliefs than physically harming me anyways.

Playful antagonism is ten times more fun. Especially for a short-sighted evil character (who took wisdom as a dump stat), you can basically get away with continually acting counter to the pacifist because hey, what can he do? He's not allowed to kill anybody. He's not allowed to use compulsions or charms. The worst he can do is actively hurt his chances of victory by not helping me. ...right? Right?

It's obviously something of a problem out of character, but just picture your wee little codzilla getting more and more frustrated with this poor-willsave fighter who, in all likelihood, hasn't properly thought out what you are and aren't allowed/willing to do to him. There's nothing in the pacifist's code that bars alcohol, sleep potions, a bridal gown and a painter.

That includes the enemies. There are a lot more amusing fates than death (because hey, it's kind of morbid, smelly and it tends to be the same old thing after a while), something a CE may or may not appreciate.

mabriss lethe
2007-12-29, 02:43 PM
Since I'm not particularly familiar with either the deity in question or the faith of your pacifist, The curse idea might still stand.

As someone else pointed out, bestowing a curse upon someone in order to change their alignment would probably get you on the wrong side of their god. There is a huge difference between alignment and behavior. The curse should be aimed at curbing a behavior, not influencing alignments. the character is still the same person inside, Still capable of the same sociopathic acts, He just has to pay the consequences if he indulges in them. It gives him a reason to stop acting like a blatant psycho, while still being able to be just as nuts as he wants to be on the inside. He can make snide remarks, cutting insults, dream up and voice nigh unspeakably twisted acts of revenge upon his enemies. "Oh. First! First, I'll rip off your fingers with a pair of rusty sheep shears and make the most delicious stew from them. Then ooh then I'll wire your jaws open and feed it to you one spoonful at a time. ..." If anything, It might make the character even more twisted and deviant as he frantically searches for a new outlet for his evil.

AS for spellcraft not being applicable since it's trained only, that assumes (possibly correctly) that the player didn't invest any skill ranks in it cross class. That's why (since I've never laid eyes on the character sheet)having to roll for trying to fool him with a curse could be necessary.

pondshadow
2007-12-29, 03:18 PM
I suggest using some spell to look at his memories to see what his reason for being CE or you could show him what you and the rest of the party think of him.

P.S where is the supplement where there is the church of eldrath

Little_Rudo
2007-12-29, 07:18 PM
I'm currently playing a pacifistic healing-cleric in a game. Although no one in the group is Chaotic Evil (save for the Barbarian's Rage-induced personality shift), there's been a lot of discussion, IC and OOC, regarding the oath's she's taken regarding pacifism and how far she can go before her god begins punishing her. (This is a homebrew setting, and she's a nun in a religion based off of Roman Catholicism. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more information on this.)

I can't suggest anything in terms of changing his character or OOC discussion, but I can tell you how I've handled my character's pacifism. There are two important parts for her. On one hand, she may not knowingly try to inflict harm on another person - your character most likely uses non-deadly force, from what I've gathered, so that's a bit null. Otherwise, she is required to do everything in her power (barring physical harm, of course) to protect the innocent and/or unarmed. If someone wishes her or her allies harm, however, she is not required to give them mercy. Therefore, your character might be more lenient if their foes were actively trying to harm them: If they were ambushed by bandits or something, he might be willing to let the CE fighter finish them off. It depends a lot on what kind of campaign you're in.

Glyde
2007-12-29, 08:02 PM
I'm allowed to use force on anything that's threatening something under my direct protection, but I still can't kill them. The whole "Peace within" stuff says that I need to give *everybody* a chance. And probably a hug, too.

Yami
2007-12-29, 08:58 PM
Bah, I've played CN characters who gave bandits more of a chance than this supposed pacifist. Of course, said character was a bandit himself, so honor amongst thieves and all that.

My current suggestion is to buy a wand of hold person.