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Umarth
2008-01-04, 03:17 PM
I'm remaking the Expert class to be a bit more of a PC playable class and would love some help.

Any ideas folks have for the higher level Expert Focuses, additional expert focuses, or just general comments are welcome.

Expert:
Alignment: Any
Class Skills
The expert can choose any ten skills to be class skills.
Skill Points at 1st Level
(6 + Int modifier) 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level
6 + Int modifier.

Expert:
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Skill Focus

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3| Skill Focus

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Expert Focus

5th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Skill Focus

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Skill Focus

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+6|Expert Focus II

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+6|Skill Focus

10th|
+7/+1|
+3|
+3|
+7|

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+3|
+7|Skill Focus

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Expert Focus III

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Skill Focus

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+4|
+9|

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+9|Skill Focus

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Expert Focus IV

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|Skill Focus

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11|

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Skill Focus

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Expert Focus V
[/table]

Class Features
The following is a class feature of the expert NPC class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
The expert is proficient in the use of all simple weapons and with light armor but not shields.
Skill Focus: At 1st level and every odd level after the adept gains the Skill Focus feat as a bonus feat for one of her class skills.
Expert Focus I: At 4th level an expert selects a 1st level focus that grants additional benefits with a chosen set of skills:

Craft Focus: An expert of craft skills gains a bonus equal to of her expert levels on all craft checks. This focus may not be selected if Craft was not selected as a class skill.
Professional Focus: A profession focused expert gains a bonus equal to of her expert levels on all profession checks. This focus may not be selected if Profession was not selected as a class skill.
Sage: An expert focused on knowledge skills gains a bonus equal to of her expert levels on all profession checks. For any knowledge skills not selected as a class skill the bonus is only the sages expert class levels.
Spy: An expert Spy gains a bonus on all Bluff, Craft (Poison), Hide, and Forgery checks equal to her expert level. If any of the skills are not class skills for the Expert the bonus is only equal to of her expert levels.
Diplomat: An expert Diplomat gains a bonus on all Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Bluff checks equal to of her expert levels. If any of the skills are not class skills for the Expert the bonus is only equal to of her expert levels.
Performer: An expert performer gains a bonus on all Perform checks and one dexterity or strength based skill checks equal to her expert level. Perform and the selected skill must be class skills for the expert.

Expert Focus II: At 8th level an expert may select a second level Expert Focus for which they already have the Expert Focus 1 ability for or they may select a bonus from Expert Focus I again.

Craft Focus: You gain the Quick Crafting* feat as a bonus feat.
Professional Focus: Your business makes twice as much money as your Profession check would indicate.
Sage: ?????
Spy: You gain the Use Poison ability allowing you to use poisons with no risk of accidentally affecting yourself.
Diplomat: All creatures of your race treat you as though you where one category friendlier than you really are.
Performer: You make twice as much money as your Perform check would indicate.

Expert Focus III: At 12th level an expert may select a third level Expert Focus for which they already have the Expert Focus 2 ability or they may select a level 1 or 2 expert focus ability.

Craft Focus: You gain one of the following benefits. You must have at least 15 skill ranks in the relevant craft ability to select the benefit.


Weapon Master: Masterwork weapons you craft gain +2 to attack rather than +1.
Armor Master: Masterwork armor you craft gains +2 DR rather than +1 DR.
Craft (skill): You may add the valuable trait to an item with out increasing the craft DC or having to spend additional resources. You must select this for a particular craft skill such as Jewelry, Blacksmithing, or Woodworking.
Professional Focus: You may try to drive an opponent out of business. Once per month you may select a target business and force that business to take a penalty to all their profession checks equal to your ranks in Profession.
Sage: ??????
Spy: You may craft a poison for a specific target. The DC of the poison increases by 1 for every 4 ranks you have in Craft (Poison).
Diplomat: ??????
Performer: ??????

Expert Focus IV: At 16th level an expert may select a fourth level Expert Focus for which they already have the Expert Focus 3 ability or they may select a level 1, 2, or 3 expert focus ability for wich they meet the prerequisites.

Craft Focus: You gain one of the following benefits. You must have at least 19 ranks in the skill.


Perfect Weapons: Individuals weilding weapons you crafted gain familiarity bonuses every level rather than every 2 levels.
Armor Master: Individuals wearing armor you crafted gain familiarity bonuses every level rather than every 2 levels.
Craft (skill): ?????

Professional Focus: ?????
Sage: ?????
Spy: ?????
Diplomat: ?????
Performer: ?????

Expert Focus V: At 20th level an expert may select a fith level Expert Focus for which they already have the Expert Focus 4 ability or they may select a level 1, 2, 3, or 4 expert focus ability for wich they meet the prerequisites.


Craft Focus: You may take 20 on any craft skill checks for any craft skill you have at least 10 ranks in.
Professional Focus: You may take 20 on any profession skill checks for any profession skill you have at least 10 ranks in.
Sage: You may take 20 on any knowledge skill checks for any knowledge skill you have at least 10 ranks in. You may do so even if threatened.
Spy: You may take 20 on any bluff, Craft (Poison), Hide, or Forgery checks. You may do so even if threatened.
Diplomat: You may take 20 on any Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Bluff checks. You may do so even if threatened.
Performer: You may take 20 on all preform checks and the str or dex based skill you selected for Expert Focus I.





*Quick Crafting reduces the time needed to craft items by 1/2.

salmonking2
2008-01-04, 10:19 PM
actually in unearthed arcanum (i was just reading this earier) then they have generic classes (expert, warrior, spellcaster) and weird enough, its almost exactly like your build, except the player picks 2 saves to be good and one to be bad, and all the specials are bonus feats, with plain bonus feats at 1,2,4,8,12,16, and 20th level

SilentNight
2008-01-04, 10:34 PM
Give them Master Craftsman from Dragon #358 as a bonus feat. If you don't have access to this issue I am sorry but it is a very long article. Basically it allows the character to make their masterwork weapons and armour stronger by incorporating traits. The PC choses one trait plus one for every five ranks in the corresponding craft skill to a maximum of five at 20 ranks.

You might also allow crafters to spend less on raw matierials.

Umarth
2008-01-05, 12:47 AM
Had an idea for the 5th level expert focus:

Expert Focus V: At 20th level an expert may select a fith level Expert Focus for which they already have the Expert Focus 4 ability or they may select a level 1, 2, 3, or 4 expert focus ability for wich they meet the prerequisites.

Craft Focus: You may take 20 on any craft skill checks for any craft skill you have at least 10 ranks in.
Professional Focus: You may take 20 on any profession skill checks for any profession skill you have at least 10 ranks in.
Sage: You may take 20 on any knowledge skill checks for any knowledge skill you have at least 10 ranks in. You may do so even if threatened.
Spy: You may take 20 on any bluff, Craft (Poison), Hide, or Forgery checks. You may do so even if threatened.
Diplomat: You may take 20 on any Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Bluff checks. You may do so even if threatened.
Performer: You may take 20 on all preform checks and the str or dex based skill you selected for Expert Focus I.


Salmonking2: I'll check unearthed arcanum out. I think it's a bit diffrent direction than I'm looking to go (I'm keeping all the non magic using classes already) but it never hurts to look.

SilentNight: Sadly I don't have many dragon magazines. I'll try and track down 358 to take a look at it though.

HellFencer
2008-01-05, 08:11 PM
I really like the way this class is looking, and I want to comment on it, but don't have the time right now. I'll edit this post tomorrow or Monday with comments.

RandomFellow
2008-01-05, 08:24 PM
The Diplomat route is waaaaaay too strong. It requires house rules to make it playable. All you've done for that route is making an already easily broken skill even easier to break.

Nothing personal.

Umarth
2008-01-05, 08:29 PM
The Diplomat route is waaaaaay too strong. It requires house rules to make it playable. All you've done for that route is making an already easily broken skill even easier to break.

Nothing personal.

Hrm... that's a very good point. Let me think about that.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-01-05, 08:36 PM
Personally, i don't think that this class should be made into a PC class.

Umarth
2008-01-05, 08:38 PM
Any reason why not? Seems like a good class if you plan on having a lot of games that arn't combat oriented.

vivi
2008-01-05, 08:44 PM
I like it.

I think it should remain a pc class, but that's just me

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-01-05, 09:16 PM
True, useful in a non-combat game, but i don't see many of those. Normally players aren't looking at that.

Fits a niche that just doesn't come up often. I don't like it, but people who need that niche will like it; it's the only class like this i've seen.

What are you trying to balance it too? It is more powerful than the expert, but much less powerful then almost all PC classes. The thing is, that comparing to other classes is hard, because all PC classes, which this one is, are combat based, while this is a non-combatant.

Umarth
2008-01-05, 10:28 PM
It will probably be mostly balanced against my Aristocrat class which is focused arround running organizations.

It also seems to me that an NPC should be better at being an expert or aristocrat than a random rogue/bard would be.

HellFencer
2008-01-08, 11:28 AM
Alright, I finally got around to giving some ideas.

Going with your current scheme:
#1-
Instead of requiring that previous Expert foci be gained in order to access the more powerful ones, the prerequisites should be based on skill ranks. Thus, in order to gain Expert focus III (craft), you would need 15 ranks in craft, rather than needing focus I and II (craft). I think doing it this way allows for a greater range of variety, rather than just narrowing them down to a certain type.

#2-
If an Expert so chooses, she may forgo an Expert focus at her highest level for two from a level below it. Thus, Expert focus IV can be given up for two Expert focus III's.

#3-
Expert focus II (Sage)- You gain the Lore ability.

#4-
The more I look at this class, the more I see that it needs something further done to it, like adding skill tricks or something of the like. Perhaps give an Expert abilities that no one else can do with a skill.