Klingons v.s Reavers(from Fire Fly)

[ArlEammon]

Klingons from Star Trek v.s Reavers, from Fire Fly.

The Klingons are De'Har masters!

[North]

Space/Land?

How many of each and what weapons?

[SilentNight]

Reavers, no competition whatsoever. If Reavers can survive the outer reaches of space while constantly being exposed to radiation(see the pilot) then they should have no problems. This is assuming of course that they have the same level of technology and resources.

[ArlEammon]

Reavers, no competition whatsoever. If Reavers can survive the outer reaches of space while constantly being exposed to radiation(see the pilot) then they should have no problems. This is assuming of course that they have the same level of technology and resources.

Dozen of them got royally screwed by a girl with precognition and awesome sword skills.

As for Space/Land, I say that they get two miles of space between them, and they are in a sort of Bio-Dome with a forcefield around it. As for what weapons, the Klingons have their Katanas, Mek'Leths and Batl'eths.

[Skjaldbakka]

Klignons have katanas? WTF?

[Lilly]

Note for the future: Please flesh out the first post beyond "____ vs ___. Discuss"

I think that reavers could take just about anything. They are awesome with nothing that would stop them. And they'll eat you.

[North]

Both on foot. Id say that the Klingons win ironically by being more disciplined. They will take heavy losses but with two miles between the Reavers attack line will be staggered enough that the Klingons can fight them piecemeal. This is assuming Reavers are using all close range weapons.

[SilentNight]

Dozen of them got royally screwed by a girl with precognition and awesome sword skills.


Well that's her. Of course they got killed. Klingons are just the uruk-hai of Star Trek except more civilized.

[ArlEammon]

Klignons have katanas? WTF?

They don't show them on-screen very much, but Worf killed Duras, who wielded a katana.

[SurlySeraph]

I want the Reavers to win. However, Klingons have certain things, namely strategy, tactics, training, and weapons, which give them an edge.

[ArlEammon]

They are also De'Har masters!

[Tengu]

Klingons are more disciplined, smarter and able to come up with strategies other than "rape them to death, eat their flesh and sew their skins to our clothing... not necessarily in that order", and have access to better technology, especially when it comes to spaceships. Furrowed brows will win this, unless there's simply much more Reavers than them.

[ArlEammon]

I admit I am uninformed about Reavers. I saw some of them fighting in Serenity, but I wasn't really watching all that much.

[Ditto]

Klingons in space win, obviously, what with shields and useful weapons. On the ground, Klingon wins, because they have ranged weapons. But if we insist on limiting their resources thusly... the Klingons still win, for the aforementioned reasons. A bunch of Reavers can swarm a single Klingon, but not an equal number. Klingons know how to use their weapons, and are built for combat, not savage brawling.

Klingons get weaker when they're fighting protagonists, though. Sisko or Kira can take on two of them and win with fists. :smallconfused: Thankfully, the Reavers are *never* protagonists, so I think they'll be okay.

[Theodoriph]

Klingons get weaker when they're fighting protagonists, though. Sisko or Kira can take on two of them and win with fists. :smallconfused: Thankfully, the Reavers are *never* protagonists, so I think they'll be okay.

QFT :smallbiggrin:

[Icewalker]

Afraid to say that strategy instead of blind and very freaky murderous rage is enough to tip it in the Klingon's favor.

Sadly, the Reavers, being from Firefly, cause all the Klingons to simply dissolve from the waves of pure awesome emanated from the show.


Mmmm, Firefly. I got the series for Christmas, and it is still sitting here, in its wrapped shiny glory next to my computer. I should open it and rewatch all the episodes...I haven't in a while.

[Verruckt]

To big of a tech disparity, Klingon's have phasers and disruptors, Reavers get what, fire arms at the best, jury-rigged auto crossbows at worst?

On the other hand, a single one on one mano-e-xeno fight with whatever melee weapons they can reasonably get their hands on would be a fight I'd pay to see, albeit with 10 foot splash guards around the arena.

(on second thought, i'm not really sure i want to see a klingon getting raped to death... :smallfrown: :smalleek: )

(goes off into a corner and cries)

[EntilZha]

I think the Klingons would win. They have superior technology, combat training, and tactics. The Reavers are berserkers who attack in large numbers fearlessly. However, I think the Klingons would suffer heavy losses in the process. Lots of looking in the eyes and screaming by the bump-heads after this one.

[Renegade Paladin]

I want the Reavers to win. However, Klingons have certain things, namely strategy, tactics, training, and weapons, which give them an edge.
Klingons? Tactics? An excellent joke, sir. :smallamused:

I have nothing further to add because I don't know anything about the Reavers; I just wanted to interject that the fact that Klingons are blithering morons with no concept of tactical warfare and an obsession with a melee weapon that actually has less reach than a handheld knife should be considered.

[warty goblin]

While on the surface the Klingon 'discipline' looks like enough to tip the balance in their favor,there are a few things worth considering.

1) Morale: The reavers are fearless, literally walking concentrations of bloodlust. I'm guessing that the Klingons don't exactly turn tail and run easily, but really, once the skinning and the raping gets going, do you think they'd hold their positions?

2) Weaponry: The reavers actually do have and use ranged weapons- they shoot Simon and Jayne after all, and hit Kaylee with some sort of toxic dart. They may prefer melee weapons, but they are not limited to them.

3) Tactical Ability/coordination. I'm not really sure that the reavers are as bad at working together as people make out. Now they are clearly not best friends forever, but they do manage to pilot really quite large spacecraft, and judging from Serenity, even have their own radio station- the Screaming Network.

I'm not sure this is enough to tip things in their favor, I just felt it worth pointing out.

[ArlEammon]

Don't anyone know what De'Har masters are?

[Renegade Paladin]

Don't anyone know what De'Har masters are?
Unless it involves being a master of a combat style that isn't incredibly stupid (and the Klingons don't have any of those of which I'm aware) then I don't see how it matters.

[Seraph]

the reavers are just angry crazy humans. ask any trained martial artist and he'll tell you that untrained blind rage is useless when fighting someone trained in close combat.

[warty goblin]

the reavers are just angry crazy humans. ask any trained martial artist and he'll tell you that untrained blind rage is useless when fighting someone trained in close combat.

Seemingly complete immunity to pain might however...

This is just an opinion, but I never thought of the reavers as being stupid or uncontrolled, merely that everything they do is motivated by pure rage and bloodlust.

[Seraph]

This is just an opinion, but I never thought of the reavers as being stupid or uncontrolled, merely that everything they do is motivated by pure rage and bloodlust.

that's the problem, though. go find a martial artist and just run screaming at him with a chainsaw. you'll be on the ground, possibly impaled on your own weapon faster than you can even register it. mindless rage may be good for killing civilians and raiding colonies, but going up against a trained force of CQC specialists will only work if your force is several orders of magnitude larger, and even then It won't work when the other guys have weapons that can be set to wide-angle firing.

[Renegade Paladin]

the reavers are just angry crazy humans. ask any trained martial artist and he'll tell you that untrained blind rage is useless when fighting someone trained in close combat.
Of course it is. Which is the Klingon's problem as well; they exhibit no discipline, little to no tactics, strategy dictated by their incomprehensible sense of honor, and an obsession with the bat'leth, a weapon apparently designed by an imbecile or possibly someone who just really hated Klingons. So basically we apparently have two groups of total maniacs fighting each other.

[warty goblin]

that's the problem, though. go find a martial artist and just run screaming at him with a chainsaw. you'll be on the ground, possibly impaled on your own weapon faster than you can even register it. mindless rage may be good for killing civilians and raiding colonies, but going up against a trained force of CQC specialists will only work if your force is several orders of magnitude larger, and even then It won't work when the other guys have weapons that can be set to wide-angle firing.

Apparenty you missed the part of my statement where I said I didn't think of them like that. The fact that most of the 'verse seems to be scared half to death of them, and that they regularly manage to destroy colonies, which given the liberal gun laws exhibited throughout the show are presumably pretty well armed, only goes to demonstrate my point- they are not mindless morons. Completely psycopathic and motivated by rage yes, but it is possible to be motivated and consumed with rage without being a frothing lunatic.

[Sneak]

Dozen of them got royally screwed by a girl with precognition and awesome sword skills.

First of all, I'd like to point at that River did not kill the reavers, it was plot.

Anyway, I don't know much about Klingons, but I do think that the Reavers would win. I think that they actually do have strategy—remember their electro-magnetic grappling thingy from Serenity (the episode, not the movie)? It's also possible that they could use more stealthy tactics, if the nascent reaver from Bushwacked is any example. I think they are capable of being disciplined when they need to. They just usually aren't because they usually don't need to be—people on border moons will just scatter and run when they see reavers running towards them. They are motivated by bloodlust, but that doesn't mean that they are mindless.

[Jabberwock]

Hey Guys I joined this forum for the sole purpose of weighing in on this topic. I am probably considered a rabid browncoat at this point but thats neither here nor there...

I wanted to back up the Reavers in this fight. Where as they were born of an inhuman rage and driven by all sorts of unseemly urges. They are logistically sound. Think about it for a moment, we are talking about a community of humanity that has the trash of the universe; ships that were decimated (most likely by the Reavers themselves) and then jury rigged to not only limp along but function as a normal space faring ship would. An example of this is in Train Job when the Reavers in an antiquated <trans U?> not only gave Serenity a run for her money, but survived a an upper atmosphere dive using the top of the ship as a heat shield. Not only does this point to the Reavers mechanical adaptability, but to the pilots tactical knowledge. Some will argue that this only shows a Reavers ability to adapt what they have had time to fix and study. I'll also point out in the movie Serenity, not only did the Reavers defeat the Alliance Army in the air (evidence is that raiding parties were attacking the Serenity crew. If they had been losing the Reavers would not be there.) But they attacked the crew of Serenity in an organized and methodical manner. Once they were bottlenecked in the small room, they found alternative ways in by making them. They used superior numbers sure, but that kind of organization and adaptability is deadly. Lets say in the given example (2 mile sphere exc..) the Reavers will do what they do best, swarm. many will be injured or killed in the process but they will adapt their tactics to more efficiently kill the Klingons. One thing I've noticed about Reavers is their affinity for applying new technology into their arsenal quickly and efficiently. Every ship in the Reaver armada at the finale of Serenity had retro-fitted weapons be they an EM ray gun or and EM grappler. The Reavers would incorporate the Klingons own weapons against them Not to mention, being technologically superior, the Klingons don't have the option to steal Reaver technology.

My prediction is that the Reavers would suffer heavey losses at first, but they would adapt to the fight much quicker than the Klingons, and soon overtake them with a combination of psychological warfare (skinning and raping them) and physical endurance (these people cut on themselves, split their own tongues, and all sorts of other unpleasantness) The Reavers seem to thrive off of pain and mutilation; I would go so far as to say that they might shake off being shot a couple times or losing an arm. in the end I think that there will probably be a feast of Klingon, although I doubt they would stop chewing for a goblet of blood wine.

~
Mal: "I would appreciate it if one person on this boat would not assume I'm an evil, lecherous hump."

Zoe: "No one's saying that, sir."

Wash: "Yeah, we're pretty much just giving each other significant glances and laughing incessantly."

[Destichado]

Oh good grief, there's no question. Klingons all the way.

The only way reavers would stand a chance is if they had been *created* on a federation starship and let to work their madness starting with an equivalent tech-base. Then they might get somewhere. But otherwise, against a race of warriors with grossly superior technology, no way. Not in any venue.

[Dhavaer]

With two miles between them and only melee weapons, I have to give this to the reavers. The impression I've gained of klingons is that their only advantage is redundant organs, which doesn't make up for their poor tactics or choice of weapons.

[SmartAlec]

Just to clarify: 'Dahar Master' is a title given to Klingons whose personal exploits are impressive enough to be legendary. So, an Epic Klingon, essentially.

I'm not convinced of the Reavers' morale advantage. Neither side is going to stop fighting; neither side is going to back down, or run away. Blind rage is going to keep the Reavers in the fight, and the Klingons will fight to the finish, held there by honour and the Klingon joy of fighting stuff. The effects of raping/eating on Klingon morale will not, I think, be an issue, as that sort of thing will only really start to happen once every Klingon is dead - and even if some Reavers did start, it might just make the remaining Klingons even more determined to fight on, to avenge the dishonour done to the bodies of the fallen.

[Hung Lo]

Here's something that might work for the Reavers...

If Reavers live in a relentlessly hostile environment, killing and being killed constantly - then the Reavers population has been trimmed down from thousands of ordinary psychotic humans to the most vicious and violent survivors by natural selection (or conversion - ick).

Klingons have better discipline and training. Reavers don't feel fear or pain, but that doesn't mean they are totally unskilled fighters.

I'd agree that Reavers may not be the deepest thinkers on the block, but they aren't totally mindless. They employ cunning tactics (like EM weapons and booby-traps) to get the drop on their victims - though they probably lose all command and control once the killing starts.

So I could see Reaver vs Klingon one-on-one as an even matchup. Same thing for a gang vs gang battle - like the crews of two small ships pitted in battle against each other.

[Rawhide]

This was not a well fleshed out vs. thread to begin with, and has now been necromanced. Locked on both accounts.