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Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 05:23 PM
The variant rule: When a character from a non-Humanoid race with level adjustment and racial hit dice totaling one or greater levels up, they may use their racial saving throws, racial base attack bonus, racial hit die size, or number of skill points obtained as per their racial traits if they are superior to what would be gained through the class selected.

Creatures with level adjustments of the Outsider, Fey, and Dragon types increase their Level Adjustments by 1. Creatures whose types change (via templates, feats, spells, or otherwise) use their original type to determine the effects of this rule even if they do not gain the Augmented subtype.

puppyavenger
2008-01-12, 05:29 PM
The variant rule: When a character from a non-Humanoid race with level adjustment and racial hit dice totaling one or greater levels up, they may use their racial saving throws, racial base attack bonus, racial hit die size, or number of skill points obtained as per their racial traits if they are superior to what would be gained through the class selected.

Creatures with level adjustments of the Outsider, Fey, and Dragon types increase their Level Adjustments by 1.

why Fey and Dragon sorcerors for thw win!

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 05:32 PM
why Fey and Dragon sorcerors for thw win!

Except you're losing two caster levels at least. At least. This is Badô.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-12, 05:37 PM
Mineral Warrior Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer here I come!

D12 HD, Full saves, Full BaB, and with the Greater Rite of Draconic Ascension, I only lose one level! :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though..

It would be interesting if everyone was playing a non-humanoid. But in a group of humanoids, it doesn't quite match-up.

puppyavenger
2008-01-12, 05:38 PM
Except you're losing two caster levels at least. At least. This is Badô.

I mean for monsters. and my second question stands.

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 05:38 PM
Mineral Warrior Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer here I come!

D12 HD, Full saves, Full BaB, and with the Greater Rite of Draconic Ascension, I only lose one level! :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though..

It would be interesting if everyone was playing a non-humanoid. But in a group of humanoids, it doesn't quite match-up.

What about restricting it to one or two different choices then, selectable at first level, as their "racial attribute" or something?

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 05:39 PM
I mean for monsters. and my second question stands.

Fey would guarantee 6+Int skills, a d6 HD, and two good saves, making casters even more powerful. Fey fighters would come out with 6+Int skills, d10 HD, full BAB, and three good saves.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-12, 05:44 PM
What about restricting it to one or two different choices then, selectable at first level, as their "racial attribute" or something?

Or just clarify that the "original" type counts as your racial 'class'? IE: The aforementioned Mineral Warrior Dragonwrought Kobold would gain levels in Monstrous Humanoid rather than Dragon.

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 05:55 PM
Or just clarify that the "original" type counts as your racial 'class'? IE: The aforementioned Mineral Warrior Dragonwrought Kobold would gain levels in Monstrous Humanoid rather than Dragon.

Updated as per suggestion.

puppyavenger
2008-01-12, 06:04 PM
Second question?

Why do the Fey get a extra level adjustment?

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 06:07 PM
Why do the Fey get a extra level adjustment?

Fey would guarantee 6+Int skills, a d6 HD, and two good saves, making casters even more powerful. Fey fighters would come out with 6+Int skills, d10 HD, full BAB, and three good saves.

Baron Corm
2008-01-12, 06:08 PM
I think you should make it improve by a number of degrees, as well as increase the level adjustment. Instant full BAB, etc is much too good. I think something like this:

{table=head]Class HD|Racial HD|New HD
d4|d4|d4
d4|d6|d4
d4|d8|d6
d4|d10|d6
d4|d12|d8[/table]

Not my idea so I won't draw out all the tables, but you get the idea. Increase by amounts, not instantly equal to the racial one.

What about decreasing the HD and stuff if the racial one is lower, too? That could help mitigate some of the level adjustment. The same table I just made would apply.

Fax Celestis
2008-01-12, 06:09 PM
I think you should make it improve by a number of degrees, as well as increase the level adjustment. Instant full BAB, etc is much too good. I think something like this:

{table=head]Class HD|Racial HD|New HD
d4|d4|d4
d4|d6|d4
d4|d8|d6
d4|d10|d6
d4|d12|d8[/table]

Not my idea so I won't draw out all the tables, but you get the idea. Increase by amounts, not instantly equal to the racial one.
That's an option but it requires a lot of careful balancing. This is more "hard and fast", but I'll consider it.