Order of the Stick: June I

[Lilly]

Continue discussion here!

Edit: As per a suggestion I recieved, I'll try only running the thread for the first two weeks. (Give or take a couple days)

[Eloco]

Rabbit rabbit

[silvadel]

Fine -- on power attacks -- chart reposted

Actually power attack is a bit less useful than most people think... Power attack is worth it only if you do less than the following damage amounts(less than twice the damage amount on a 2 handed weapon)...

We are talking here about a person with three attacks....

Number to Hit on base attack, You cant hit for more than:

10, 6
9, 7
8, 8
7, 9
6, 10
5, 11
4, 12
3, 13
2, 14
1, 15
0, 23.5
-1, 24.5
-2, 25.5
-3, 26.5

[Kish]

Erm, why?

[The Giant]

The Voice of Mod: Ahem. Please bring rules analysis of the value of Power Attack--and any other non-OOTS discussion--to the Gaming forum.

[pumpkinetics]

Woo! New comic!

we all knew something like that would happen, didn't we.

lrq

[PokeTheBard]

Maybe so, but I never could have thought that would happen... Lol "Typical" ;D

[Dr_Nno]

So, as a (almost) first post with content related to the comic, let me say this: this strip is pure gold!!!

Every panel is worth several episodes of whatever web comic you can throw in, and every phrase just fit in.
"We've found these stash'd under his hoard"
"Typical, really"
Just pure Gold, I say.

Ho, and congrats to Rich for the right spelling of "hoard" ;D (see http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=131)

[alec]

Absolutly brilient! All that for nothing! Best comic yet in my opinion.

[Nikolai_II]

Absolutly brilient! All that for nothing! Best comic yet in my opinion.

Not nothing - starmetal (although perhaps not enough for a sword, but he can make a nice set consisting of a toothpick, a comb and an earspoon ;)

[Eloco]

For thoes that dont know what rabbit rabbit is..

http://www.harrumph.com/rabbit/


Just my way of wishing the OOTS crew a little luck this month. Poor Roy looks like he could use some.

[Fire_Wolf]

Not nothing - starmetal (although perhaps not enough for a sword, but he can make a nice set consisting of a toothpick, a comb and an earspoon ;)
Don't knock it - I'd be scared if I was on the wrong end of a +1 Starmetal Bohemian Earspoon. ;)

[Silverblaze]

For thoes that dont know what rabbit rabbit is..


Enigo Montoya - you may not be lefthanded, but Tibbar Tibbar is definately for the creative right side of the brain ;)

[Silverblaze]

And love the fact that Belkar SO has problems handling the fact that V took out the dragon on hir own *G* He's just angry cause V had people around to see what happend as opposed to his own little stunt earlier *G* http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=42

[Silmarwen]

Did you see the smile on Haley's face on the first panel??? ;D
What are the chances that Scrooge McDuck is a descendant of hers??

[Brakkart]

"I dream of the day when I will learn to stop asking questions to which I will regret learning the answers"

Damn I laughed at that. Thanks Rich, I needed that! Keep em coming please!

[Matuse]

The bottle of lube found with the dragon porn is especially inappropriate.

I love it.


Maybe a little starmetal goes a long way...kind of like the lube!

[cerebus151]

Mmmm... Dragon KY...

akk-- phhht--- ew...

"it rubs the lotion on its scales..."

[Wren]

Drake Glide!

[Silverblaze]

A scary thought is that this "Young Adult" just might have a mummy or daddy (that being the "other" dragon that V spoke of) and either may be coming home soon :o And this in turn might lead to TOotS loosing the hoard as spoken of in earlier treads... :'(

[manscatha]

A scary thought is that this "Young Adult" just might have a mummy or daddy (that being the "other" dragon that V spoke of) and either may be coming home soon :o And this in turn might lead to TOotS loosing the hoard as spoken of in earlier treads... :'(

I thought about that, but surely the (young) adult magazines indicate that the older dragon hasn't checked on the hoard in a while, and so doesn't live here? Although I suppose the older dragon--which I will call Mother, since the defeated dragon mentioned one--could come to visit, or something.

Anyway, we now know that the dragon preferred large tails. This might answer whether it had a crush on the small purple lizard. What'd you all think of V's tail?

[Nikolai_II]

Don't knock it - I'd be scared if I was on the wrong end of a +1 Starmetal Bohemian Earspoon. ;)

Although I was thinking more about the viking earspoon.
http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/graphics/twzersp.gif

A site giving some text as well is here -> http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/hairstyl.htm

But viking earspoons were might weapons in the art of love, as this quote from the page above hints at:

It is reported in the chronicle attributed to John of Wallingford that the Danes, thanks to their habit of combing their hair every day, of bathing every Saturday and regularly changing their clothes, were able to undermine the virtue of married women and even seduce the daughters of nobles to be their mistresses2.
;)

[Silverblaze]

I thought about that, but surely the (young) adult magazines indicate that the older dragon hasn't checked on the hoard in a while, and so doesn't live here? Although I suppose the older dragon--which I will call Mother, since the defeated dragon mentioned one--could come to visit, or something.

Anyway, we now know that the dragon preferred large tails. This might answer whether it had a crush on the small purple lizard. What'd you all think of V's tail?

A crush on the small purple lizard that it tried to eat?? *L* Besides - large for a dragon is most likely not lizardsize *G* Congratulations - you went mad in the end! ;D

[Silverblaze]

Although I was thinking more about the viking earspoon.
http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/graphics/twzersp.gif

A site giving some text as well is here -> http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/hairstyl.htm

But viking earspoons were might weapons in the art of love, as this quote from the page above hints at:
;)

I'd very much like to point out that we this day and age have taken to bathing every day *G*

[manscatha]

A crush on the small purple lizard that it tried to eat?? *L* Besides - large for a dragon is most likely not lizardsize *G* Congratulations - you went mad in the end! ;D


Well, I didn't really think it had a crush on the lizard, but some people suggested it as a possible reason why V was able to get that weird Suggestion past it. (And I meant large propotion-wise. Barbie is not human-sized, but she is still built.)

At the same time, I wouldn't count the eating as anti-crush evidence. After all, we hurt the ones we love the most.

[Silverblaze]

Well, I didn't really think it had a crush on the lizard, but some people suggested it as a possible reason why V was able to get that weird Suggestion past it. (And I meant large propotion-wise. Barbie is not human-sized, but she is still built.)

At the same time, I wouldn't count the eating as anti-crush evidence. After all, we hurt the ones we love the most.

Hmmm... Seem to recall a number of women being somewhat traumatized over Barbie's proportional built ;-) But kidding aside - yes, unfortunately we, being human, - (Belkar, no offence intended - manner of speaking and besides, you don't love anybody anyway *g*), have a tendency to hurt the ones we love... But in the case of Elan and Samantha, Elan saw this as his bardic duty and didn't (and still wouldn't) realize his actions hurt Haley. I think she really has a Herculese' labour set out for her if she wants him in a relationship *g*

[Vhesper]

Excellent strip! Roy may still have hope. After all, he only needs enough starmetal to fix his sword. he doesn't actually need enough to have a new one forged. And as long as it is pure starmetal, then he may just have enough. ;D

[Silverblaze]

Excellent strip! Roy may still have hope. After all, he only needs enough starmetal to fix his sword. he doesn't actually need enough to have a new one forged. And as long as it is pure starmetal, then he may just have enough. ;D

On this topic. What would happen if the sword was reduced in size by spell - repaired with the starmetal within the spells duration and then duriation expires?? I know it's a weird question, but I was just curious...

[Rambling_Scribe]

Does Roy actually need the star metal anyways? It was Sabine in disguise who told him that at Nale's prompting. The real smith has no idea that Roy is even on this quest.

Maybe the smith will be able to reforge it from the pieces, and adding a small amount of star metal is just gravy.

[The_Meal]

Another great comic. I come for the humor ("Big Tailz") but I post for the appropriateness. As an amateur astronomer, I very much appreciate that the amount of starmetal that fell from the sky is realistic. I understand, of course, that were it determined to be humorous, Roy would've been squashed underneath eight tons of the stuff, but there's a large amount of satisfaction in seeing a "popularizer" getting it right. Thanks Rich.

And I'll echo the many great panels in today's comic. Roy's sense of humor is astounding. "Typical, really." I can see the players cackling in the background as the DM presents the description of the findings with a big smirk on his face.

Awesomeness.

Thanks again,
~Neal

[phlip]

On this topic. What would happen if the sword was reduced in size by spell - repaired with the starmetal within the spells duration and then duriation expires?? I know it's a weird question, but I was just curious...

In D&D with its weird magic I don't know, but in the real world it would stress fracture when the sword grew but the newly added starmetal didn't.
Same sort of thing when you heat glass and then put it underwater - the cooler parts shrink but the inner heated parts are still expanded, and the glass fractures.

I'd have to have a close look at the shrinking spell in question though.

[Aerysil1]

Maybe he can make himself a shiny new d20.

[Aeek]

a) an alloy
b) it will make the perfect counterweight when placed on the pommel

[Chaosmage]

I feel sad for Roy sence we all know his dream of not asking questions he will regret the answer to shall never ever come true.

Also, Haley is starting to worry me. Wonder if she'll even let the others split the gold

[sisha]

But why? With all the money they found,
Roy could buy a favoulous Extrasword + 1000
against lame bards, and chop away Elan's head!
:-)

Then he could throw the tiny starmetal into the
first fountain, just for luck!!!

(or maybe a gift for Haley..... :o

[Eriol]

"I dream of the day when I will learn to stop asking questions to which I will regret learning the answers." - Roy Greenhilt

That one will last the ages. Great new comic.

And yes, I wouldn't be suprised if Scrooge McDuck is a descendant...

[sniffles]

I want a big poster of Haley rolling in the dragon hoard. That expression on her face is priceless.

I must say, OOTS rocks!! I discovered it only a couple of weeks ago via Aaron Williams' site, and immediately introduced all my friends to the strip. I don't think any of us got any work done for the next couple of days. :D

Coincidentally, we'd just created new characters for a Forgotten Realms campaign, and two of us rolled up bards!! We have a lot to live up to now that we've experienced Elan. And our game talk is already peppered with OOTS references (to go along with all the Python and The Gamers refs we already employ). ;D

[Sundog]

Woah, June already...winter...

Re: the strip, all I can say is: WHEEEEE!

[Grey Watcher]

This Comic was great. The final gag about the Starmetal was absolutely perfect! I mean, it's funny, well-timed, and has just the right combination of being unexpected yet seeming as thought it was absolutely inevitable once you've actually seen it! And the best part is is that it makes so much sense! A meteor would have lost most of its mass on impact, and if it has been any bigger the crater it left would have given away its position to all those other adventurers that never found it! This has got to be one of those gags that Giant has just been waiting to pull out since before Sabine even mentioned the starmetal. Giant, you've definitely reached a new plateau here! Bravo!

[ObadiahtheSlim]

$%#$ sidequests! I feel for you Roy. Although I was wondering where the runes that V was talking about are located.

[cerebus151]

$%#$ sidequests! I feel for you Roy. Although I was wondering where the runes that V was talking about are located.

Right next to the DragonPornhorde.

[AtomicKitKat]

Regarding the starmetal, the size doesn't matter that much. All you'd need would be a little bit mixed into the melted fragments of greatsword, to help hold it together(and maybe make it stronger) Just be thankful it's not adamantium(not to be confused with adamantine/te), that stuff can't be reforged once set.

[RBPRX1204]

Perspective joke are so good. Loved the comic, although there really wasn't enough V in this one. :P Loved the magazine joke too. LOL Great comic.

[AdInfinitum]

...you had to include the hand lotion, didn't you. :-X

[Mr._Blinky]

"Wheeee!"
"Playdrake."
"I dream of the day when I will learn to stop asking questions to which I will regret learning the answers."
"Typical, really."

:D ;D LOL!!!!! Four side-splitters in one comic! The Giant is becoming a comic god!

[Qwernt]

I could be wrong, but isn't this the first time Roy (or anyone) has been looking away from camera? This is the first time I have noticed Roy's broken sword staring me in the face...

(Nice comic!)

[erisian]

I was curious if you were correct, so I started at OotS #1 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=1) and Roy is facing away in that one, so I am going to have to say that you are incorrect ;D

I can't recall it (aside from looking and finding it) so I bet it's pretty infrequent.

EDIT: Haley in #10, Roy in #11, Elan in #17, Xykon's secret weapon in #.... ok, you caught me there, I was making that one up. ;D

[Qwernt]

Yeah, I am incorrect. I went and reviewed as well - there is even a shot of Roy with his sword on his back (before it got broke) - though it doesn't seem to have anything keeping it there and this comic shows a little line...

Also, from my review it looks like the only people we haven't see from the back are Belkar and Durkon - though my spot check is pretty bad...

[Master_of_Dragons]

Also, from my review it looks like the only people we haven't see from the back are Belkar and Durkon - though my spot check is pretty bad...
Oh, we have seen Belkar from the back, in #157 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=157).

Master of Dragons

[Qwernt]

Yep, got to love my spot check...
Has anyone found Durkon's backside view? I can't...

[silvadel]

Watching Haley in the dragon treasure mound makes me think of Lion Witch and Wardrobe... In the 3rdish book in that series one of the characters falls asleep on such a loot pile and turns into a dragon...

[Dragon_Rider]

Ahh yes, that was Voyage of the Dawn Treader...

[Wren]

My second favourite book in the series too! Right after Horse and his Boy.

[nightsong]

hahaha, i still can't stop laughing. great comic Giant! i'm a little worried though, that star metal, if that is all, isn't nearly enough to reforge a sword!

[Spork]

Meh, Elian will do something incredibly stupid and another starmetal astriod will be sent by the gods to silence him.

Or is that just wishful thinking ??? :p

[Gez]

Anyway, we now know that the dragon preferred large tails. This might answer whether it had a crush on the small purple lizard. What'd you all think of V's tail?

A crush, or a crunch?

[Peldor]

...you had to include the hand lotion, didn't you. :-X

As far as this comic goes, that was the cream of the crop! ;)

[yrro]

Awww, poor Roy.

It's possible that a chunk of starmetal (history, just a good source of easily processed iron) could be a lot bigger than that, it just would have had to fall a long time ago or no one seeing it would have been able to tell about it. Not to mention the fact that nothing would be left of the forest...

Hmm... maybe he could make a gold sword - is there anything that has damage resistance/gold?

That's such a stupid idea it just might work...

[PicassoCat]

My second favourite book in the series too! Right after Horse and his Boy.

The Horse and His Boy is my favorite too. At least with the upcoming movie they're going with the original book order; when we bought a set for my niece a few years ago, the idiot publisher had renumbered them (in chronological order). Blech!

On topic...

Haley's expression is priceless! Does this mean the start of a new side quest, to free her father?

[JD]

Awww, poor Roy.

It's possible that a chunk of starmetal (history, just a good source of easily processed iron) could be a lot bigger than that, it just would have had to fall a long time ago or no one seeing it would have been able to tell about it. Not to mention the fact that nothing would be left of the forest...

Hmm... maybe he could make a gold sword - is there anything that has damage resistance/gold?

That's such a stupid idea it just might work...
Gold is frail and would probably break against anything.

Besides, I would like a Tarrasque tooth instead; it'd be the worlds greatest Greatsword.

[Leewong]

Gold is frail and would probably break against anything.


Or at least dent. Gold is really soft. Or is that what you meant by break?

-Lee

[GreyRat]

Gold is frail and would probably break against anything.

Besides, I would like a Tarrasque tooth instead; it'd be the worlds greatest Greatsword.

As long as it doesn't start regenerating...
I had a ranger who was big into that, Dragon-tooth daggers, hydra-hide armor, etc. Reduce (to 0 HP), reuse, recycle, right? :D
Wait till you meet the lizardmen with genuine human-hide backpacks. :-/

[silvadel]

Of course it can cause some interesting problems when that humanhide backpack is a bag of holding....

[Chris the Pontifex]

I solved it!!
finally the long debate on Vaarsuvius gender reaches its conclusion

see http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=9
Roy : "V-Man is casting identify"

[Tarlonniel]

Methinks you should read the F.A.Q. and the V's gender debate thread before making such statements, CthuluChris ;)

[Psymon]

I solved it!!
finally the long debate on Vaarsuvius gender reaches its conclusion

see http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=9
Roy : "V-Man is casting identify"




Ah young grasshopper! Your should research your bold statements more before proclaming such achievements.

[Kanibeos]

What amazes me is how someone manages to post 49 posts without having encountered arguments for both possible genders by now :)

[mossfoot]

So this should surly be enough gold to free Haley's dad, right? Will that be the next quest? Will they be interupted en-route? Or will the tax man take away most of the treasure so Haley doesn't have enough?

[Drizzt_Fanboy_74]

The Giant maintains that the gender of V will never be revealed, and any pronouns and nicknames used by the group are their own perception.

[AtomicKitKat]

Besides, I would like a Tarrasque tooth instead; it'd be the worlds greatest Greatsword.

Tetsusaiga!

[The Demented One]

Tet-er, the other one!

I'd like to see armor salvaged from an Inevitable.

[Winged One]

Stay on topic...stay on topic...AAAH*blows up*

[insert crude draconic sexual inuendo involving tails here]

[Eriol]

So this should surly be enough gold to free Haley's dad, right? Will that be the next quest? Will they be interupted en-route? Or will the tax man take away most of the treasure so Haley doesn't have enough?
As others have said before, methinks Elan and Nale's dad is the guy holding Haley's Dad for ransom. It kind of meshes with why we don't know Elan's last name yet (we know the last names of the rest of the OotS except V, who probably doesn't have one).

Just a theory. I didn't come up with it, but seems like a plausable (not going to say "likely"!) direction for the plot.

[Sundog]

Actually, meteoric iron was prized by the ancients, due to it's resistance to corrosion - the high nickel content and trace elements of chromium and vanadium made meteoric iron almost rust-proof. It wasn't until the ealy 20th century that we were able to replicate the mix.

But starmetal isn't just meteoric iron. It has strange properties all it's own.

Not that Roy actually needs it, since this whole sidequest was designed to get the OOTS out of his hair - Roy's sword's probably just plain old steel.

[yrro]

It was also quite impressive when compared to the bronze swords and spears commonly used prior to the 10th century BC, when major cultures began to understand the process of of extracting iron from ore.

From wikipedia:

The first signs of use of iron come from the Sumerians and the Egyptians, where around 4000 BC, small items, such as the tips of spears and ornaments, were being fashioned from iron recovered from meteorites. Because meteorites fall from the sky some linguists have conjectured that the English word iron, which has cognates in many northern and western European languages, derives from the Etruscan aisar which means "the gods".

[radishlaw]

Ah, another excellent comic.

This will lead to more guessing at the man in blue's
true ability.

[Ebon_Drake]

:o Blue guy=Badass
I guess that puts to rest the "bandits joining the Linear guild" theory.

[Nikolai_II]

Eek! Ultra-violence. :-X

[Sundog]

Yeah, this is one of the more brutal episodes.

But come on, guys. The thing-in-blue is clearly Samurai - he's using paired Katana and Wakizashi! Not to mention his devotion to his cause and "master".

[Silverblaze]

Absolutely brilliant with that last remark - Goes to show - Never underestimate the power of "Gather Information" ;D

I would deem that Blue Guy's actions speak of him being Lawful Neutral. He took no pleasure in his actions and acted only in selfdefence - allthough some might argue that a less "final" defensive stand might have been adopted ;)

[Kish]

Yeah, I can't say I blame the figure in blue, really. My characters tend to react in the same way to people who cast Hold Person on them and poke them with pointy bits of metal.

[JoseB]

Hmmmm.... If/when this character finds out that the Order of the Stick are NOT a "brutal band of killers"... What will he do? On the one side, he has to obey orders. On the other, he does not appear to be the type to gleefully exterminate a group of innocents who have done him no harm... Hmmm...

I guess that, were he not so fanatically loyal to his master, he might even join them. Or something...

JoseB

[RebelRogue]

Woohoo! Samurai slashing action :)

[AdInfinitum]

Eek! Ultra-violence. :-X

My thoughts exactly. :-[

[PokeTheBard]

Pfft! Blue robed guy is blatently a PC and so cant have ridiculous amounts of HP, he will no doubt do a long winded "My master has deemed it neccisary you die" speech, then Haley will use her (probably) +4D6 Sneak Attack, Roy will *WONK* him on the head and Belkar will go STABBY STABBY! Then it would be the Blue guys initiative, in which he would do some damage to Roy, then Durkon will attack then Blue boy will get owned by Haley's Many Shot. Duh. He's screwed....

Unless he's an Epic Level Fighter/Ranger... then the stickers are doomed ;D

[pumpkinetics]

Wheeeee! Mindless violence!

and super slashy action to a pc race! Ooooh...

[Yuki Akuma]

Unless he's an Epic Level Fighter/Ranger... then the stickers are doomed ;D

Ahem.

Samurai.

If you haven't worked it out by now, well...

[PokeTheBard]

I sincerely hope that the belief that he is a samurai is simply popular speculation because in my personal opinion, Samurai's have no place in fantasy as they are too historical. That and I simply dislike them anyway ;)

[Edalmri]

:o Blue guy=Badass
That was EXACTLY what I said when I saw the new strip. I wonder if that Hold Person immunity means he's an Outsider or just some guy with good saving throws...

[Shatteredtower]

Ai-yi-yi,
He is not a samurai,
All dressed in blue,
This idea doesn't fly...

Seriously, folks, two swords do not a samurai make, nor fancy wands a mage.

[cerebus151]

Hmmmm.... If/when this character finds out that the Order of the Stick are NOT a "brutal band of killers"... What will he do? On the one side, he has to obey orders. On the other, he does not appear to be the type to gleefully exterminate a group of innocents who have done him no harm... Hmmm...


The top of his head will smoke and explode a la Star Trek android with a logic conundrum.

[GreyRat]

Dang. I was looking forward to further father & daughter exploits as that pair struggled with their antipathy for each other, and their mutual desire for revenge. Not gonna happen now I guess, unless they team up in the afterlife to kidnap the ghost of Roy's Dad. :-/

Blue Guy is a symptom of impending Uberplot.
Uberplot to impact in T minus 10...

[SilveryCord]

I think he IS a samurai. Other classes don't walk around with a katana and wakazashi... it just wouldn't make sense. Besides, since when has OoTS had characters with strange class-composure? Nail, and that was a joke. Anyway

Oh oh oh oh, Blue Guy of Deeeath
Oh oh oh oh, Blue Guy OF DEAAATH
My oh my he's a deeeemon samurai...
Who's the guy that has to die?
Blue-Guy-Of-Death!

[Kish]

If/when this character finds out that the Order of the Stick are NOT a "brutal band of killers"... What will he do?
Belkar is a brutal band of killers all by himself.

[Falrin]

anyway, I'm scared now. :(

[Silverblaze]

Belkar is a brutal band of killers all by himself.

No one and I mean NO ONE should ever tell Belkar that God kills indiscriminately - IT would so go to his head ;D

[Sir_Banjo]

Guess they won't be joining the linear guild now.

[Yuki Akuma]

Ai-yi-yi,
He is not a samurai,
All dressed in blue,
This idea doesn't fly...

Seriously, folks, two swords do not a samurai make, nor fancy wands a mage.

I agree there.

However.

A katana and wakizashi, extreme devotion of his Master, extreme Lawful behaviour, and extreme measures of self defense DO a samurai make.

And the samurai class is a part of D&D. Get over it. Just because the OoTS is from a Western style area doesn't mean the entire world is Western style.

[PicassoCat]

Oh, dear - this is the first OotS strip I haven't liked! Brutal violence twice over!

And I liked Samantha and her dad - lots of potential there. Sadly, all gone now. :'(

[Adolfo]

True, they could have became reaccurring villians.

Additions in the Linear guild? Any other guesses?

[Matuse]

This strip just goes to show you why it is a bad idea to threaten people with swords when you have low hitpoints.

Also why it pays to be grateful and not power-hungry.

Also why you might want to consider wearing armor.

[Brianna_Sollandry]

Oh, dear - this is the first OotS strip I haven't liked! Brutal violence twice over!

And I liked Samantha and her dad - lots of potential there. Sadly, all gone now. :'(
I'm sad to say that I agree on all counts.

Well, I'm happy that I agree - but I am sad that I didn't like the strip.

I don't care if Samantha and her dad were villains, just wiping them out like that was no fun at all.

[Ikkitosen]

Meh, it served nicely to show how far Blue Guy is willing to go to serve his master and will heighten the tension for when he finally meets the Order. Plus Sam and her pa had had their 15 minutes of fame...

[orangefruitbat]

He must be a samurai, because I can't possibly think of another iconic warrior in DnD who is deadly with two curved blades and who might wear a cloak...

(with a possible resistance to enchantment spells...)

Oh wait a minute, I can! Initials are D.D'U.






A katana and wakizashi, extreme devotion of his Master, extreme Lawful behaviour, and extreme measures of self defense DO a samurai make.

And the samurai class is a part of D&D. Get over it. Just because the OoTS is from a Western style area doesn't mean the entire world is Western style.

[Pvednes]

Why oh why did he not take a Gather Information check? :(

[Grey Watcher]

I'm sad to say that I agree on all counts.

Well, I'm happy that I agree - but I am sad that I didn't like the strip.

I don't care if Samantha and her dad were villains, just wiping them out like that was no fun at all.


Me too. Granted, there has been plenty violence in the Order of the Stick, but this seemed really, REALLY gratuitous. I understand the point, which is to further illustrate Blue Guy's character and heighten the tension for his upcoming encounter with the Order, but it still just felt... harsh.

As far as what class BG is, Samurai is possible, but by no means certain, since we did have Goblin Ninjas, sot the Giant doesn't mind using the convention of arbitrarily introducing culturallly inconsistent elements.

[erisian]

Personally, the only part that really bothered me was the punchline. The Giant has used some really classic D&D player versus character jokes (that first attack was surprising, but the second one was REALLY surprising) and I just wasn't all that amused by the gather information one.

Granted, I can't think of any way to make fun of gather info that'd be funny - and The Giant is WAY more clever and amusing than I am (notice I dont have a comic).

Still, this is surely plot development.

[drothgery]

Pfft! Blue robed guy is blatently a PC and so cant have ridiculous amounts of HP, he will no doubt do a long winded "My master has deemed it neccisary you die" speech, then Haley will use her (probably) +4D6 Sneak Attack, Roy will *WONK* him on the head and Belkar will go STABBY STABBY! Then it would be the Blue guys initiative, in which he would do some damage to Roy, then Durkon will attack then Blue boy will get owned by Haley's Many Shot. Duh. He's screwed....

Also, V doesn't pull punches by casting Hold Person first (and that was kind of silly of Samantha, who's a high-level sorc, and certainly had spell slots to spare). She whips out her Disintegrates in the first round of combat.

[PicassoCat]

Now, read what he said and it may hint to a previously unkown fact...:

"According to my information,they consist of one elf, one dwarf, one halfling, and three humans, one of which is female."

Is the Giant indicating that V is a man?

I think the clarifying clause "one of which is female" applies to "three humans" and not to the entire list.

(Edit: Whoa! Where's the post I replied to?!)

[Hyro]

For some reason I hope those bandits come back to life. They seem like they'd be good allies if the OOTS ever needed help. I don't know why, they just appear that way.

[SumGuy]

well...that was certainly the biggest OotS shock of all time...even more than the infamous "Bard Killer" comic. At least with that one, we all *knew* Nale was going to do it; this one's just out of the blue, no pun intended.

I dont think the Order is in too much trouble. I figure that Samantha and Dad were low on HP, thus making the Blue Guy's job a bit easier.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Well I guess that dispells any rumor of them joining the linear guild. I am a bit sad at how fast they died.

[Kanibeos]

I actually loved this strip - it was great character development for everyone though of course only one of the characters actually survived ::) Still it was a nice closure to the bandit-storyline. Certainly far more satisfying than if the two had simply been left behind never to be heard from again.

[RBPRX1204]

*in best Donald Trump impersonation*
Grey Watcher, your fired.
LOL Just kidding

Ok, I liked today's comic, although, once again, not enough (any) V! We are setting up Blue Cloak as one bad son of a gun. It's building up to the final confrontation, so I'm good with that.

[Poeir]

A lot of people have suggested that Mysterious Cloaked Figure is looking for the Linear Guild, and not the Order of the Stick, but today's comic shows that he is looking for the Stickers, because he specifies that one member is a halfling, but the Linear Guild had a kobold, but no halfling. Additionally, MCF appears to believe Vaarsuvius female, since he specifies "one of which is female," implying an exact number.

[Nolgoth]

The look on Samantha's face when she was cut in half, just before dying is priceless. Reminds me of Darth Maul.

[yrro]

I actually liked the punch line.

There have been way too many times in our group where we do things the right, role-playing way and end up in horrible situations where a few points in a skill would have ended the conflict immediately.

Kind of gets into the whole player versus player character debate - if you come up with a really horrible bluff (like leaving a note on a dead goblin saying "Goblins Must Die - The Dwarf") but get a 30 with mods... should they believe you?

[Edalmri]

Additionally, MCF appears to believe Vaarsuvius female, since he specifies "one of which is female," implying an exact number.
So what's Haley then, chopped liver? (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=66)

[sniffles]

I thought it was really funny. How often do players decide to resolve issues with combat when they could have used skill? :D

I also thought it was funny to bring back Samantha and her dad and then promptly kill them off. ;D

[erisian]

So what's Haley then, chopped liver? (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=66)

Exactly.

Plus, keep in mind that The Giant said he'd never reveal V's gender and that he also said characters will have their own ideas about V's gender but they may or may not be correct.

[Qwernt]

shock
amazement
awe
disbelief

Nope, I can't come up with a good enough word. Oh and:

Silly Samantha... tricks are for kids.

[Eriol]

As with others here, I think that the 'one of which is female' is referring to the humans only, and NOT about V one way or the other.

And I agree with the others who state that it's not the Linear Guild just based on races. Kobold != Halfling, and Linear has ONE human, since the 'vampire' (or whatever she's supposed to be) isn't human. Nale is the only human in the Linear Guild IIRC.

But he still screwed up. The guy thinks that the OotS tied up the blacksmith, but they did not. So there's still some confusion on exactly what he's looking for, and for which crimes.

[Starla]

Actually the way I read it BG said "...and 3 are humans, one of which (refering to the humans) is female. I think he only referred to the gender to give more specifics on the humans in the group. Also right after he said that the Bandit dad said "is one of the human men dark and the other one fair?" So he interpreted the female reference to apply to the humans as well.


I was only slightly disappointed that Samantha and her dad died. I felt that it show more of BG's capabilities...His will save is good. Samantha would not have gotten along with the linear guild anyway. She would have tried to take control or charm Nale and Nale's girlfriend wouldn't have liked it and there would have to be a chick fight and only one would have survived in the end and it wouldn't be Samantha, and if her dad was still with them he wouldn't have liked it...No this was simpler. Much cleaner to kill them off quickly. Besides Oots already defeated them once--that's good enough.

[Raxtenko]

Well, that was a shocking comic.

[Sharra]

On the confusion:
The first time we see the blue guy (end of 1st story arc) he is told to destroy them because they destroyed Dorukan's gate. That is clearly, clearly OS, not LG. Now, Dorukan was good, but the gate could be used to evil ends according to our favorite lich, which leaves us totally in the dark as to what the BG's master wanted to do with the gate, and his alignment (beyond lawful, that is.)
How he will react to learning the Guild is not a (whole) bunch of killers? I think that should be quite irrelevant to the gate business.

[Kasur]

Come on guys!
It's an adult trip, no mater the "drowing style".
It's an adventure, and always are killing in this kind of stuff.
I'd Love this Blue cloaked Oriental servant. Great Adquisition, I'd glady pay the price of two minor bandits less. ;D

EDIT: I must agree with Sharra over this post. I see this whole situation in the same way.

[UnHoly_Ram]

A lot of people have suggested that Mysterious Cloaked Figure is looking for the Linear Guild, and not the Order of the Stick, but today's comic shows that he is looking for the Stickers, because he specifies that one member is a halfling, but the Linear Guild had a kobold, but no halfling. Additionally, MCF appears to believe Vaarsuvius female, since he specifies "one of which is female," implying an exact number.

He was referring to one of the humans being a female, not one of the party members being a female.

[BiggusGeekus]

Uh. Nice punchline, but kinda grim strip there....

[GreyRat]

But he still screwed up. The guy thinks that the OotS tied up the blacksmith, but they did not. So there's still some confusion on exactly what he's looking for, and for which crimes.

Remember it was Nale who tied up the blacksmith- identical twin to Elan (apart from the goatee). This is why having an Evil Twin is a Disadvantage, because they can trash your rep.

The deaths in this strip seem more brutal than usual because we know more about the victims than about most random monsters: a spoiled brat, and her father who loves her not wisely but too well. They were believable, sympathetic characters, and seeing them slaughtered so abruptly was not funny. Granted, after you cast a spell on someone maliciously, they're entitled to protect themselves. Doesn't make the use of deadly force any less disturbing.

[The Giant]

"Ultra violence"? "Grim"?

I would point out that the very first panel of the very first OOTS strip ever shows Roy chopping a goblin in half in the exact same manner. And let's not forget that Belkar has chopped surrendering goblins off at the knees, dismembered goblin ninjas, and wore Yikyik's skull as a hat!

If you react differently because Samantha is a human, then aren't you a species-ist? Aren't you being Belkar: "It's OK to chop goblins in half, because they have green skin and fangs."

You should all be ashamed of yourselves. :P ;)


EDIT: Darn, GreyRat slipped in ahead of me with an entirely reasonable point. Oh well.

[StarWarz2]

I love the punchline. It made me think about how many times an ugly situation could've been avoided if that d20 had only landed on a number 1 or 2 points higher?

I see it as a "I wish I had succeeded at the Gather Information check" comment, rather than a "Why didn't I think of using Gather Information?"

Wishful thinking.

[GeeVee]

I, for one, really liked this strip. It's probably the twisted feeling of satisfaction I got seeing that disgusting brat Samantha get cut in half.

P.S: No, I am not a violent person. It's more comparable to how some people wanted to see Jar Jar die in Ep3.

[Xander77]

Poor script-writing. Very poor. Introducing two interesting characters, with a natural (and hinted at) continuing story arc, then (due to not being able/interested in continuing said story arc) getting rid of them in a pointless and non-interesting manner.

For shame Rich. For shame.

[The_Shadow]

Anyway, guys, let's not forget the possibility of Raise Dead, Resurrection, and various uglier necromantic possibilities. ;)

Never assume somebody's dead *and gone* until you're seen their ashes scattered. And even then, there's Wish spells.

EDIT: And am I the only one who noticed that "Then I will die. But not today." was really freakin' funny?!

[AtomicKitKat]

Ai-yi-yi,
He is not a samurai,
All dressed in blue,
This idea doesn't fly...

LOL. (http://www.lyrics.ly/lyrics.php/DDR/Lyrics/Butterfly)


Oh oh oh oh, Blue Guy of Deeeath
Oh oh oh oh, Blue Guy OF DEAAATH
My oh my he's a deeeemon samurai...
Who's the guy that has to die?
Blue-Guy-Of-Death!

Which song is this one parodying? At first, I thought it was Aqua's "My Oh My", but there's a few other songs with "Oh oh oh" too. Any clarification?

I found today's strip alright. Nothing worse than normal. Either Rich had already planned to sacrifice the 2 of them to "put over" the Samurai, or he decided on them after all the speculation that they would join TLG. And that is why you try to reserve speculation for my "Sealed Predictions" thread *end lame plug* ;D

[silvadel]

Sorry to disagree with the Giant -- but that was grim and kind of uncalled for. He wanted information anyway and cutting someone in half is not the way to get that.

As for being a speciesist in a way yes BUT goblins have a definite species alignment... They are not simply green humans -- they are stupid green evil humanoids living in a dungeon with limited capacity for reform.

[Simonious]

"Ultra violence"? "Grim"?

I would point out that the very first panel of the very first OOTS strip ever shows Roy chopping a goblin in half in the exact same manner. And let's not forget that Belkar has chopped surrendering goblins off at the knees, dismembered goblin ninjas, and wore Yikyik's skull as a hat!


True that there have been some other brutal panels, but not with the sound effects. It's the sound effects that make it "ultra violence". ;)

[AtomicKitKat]

Sorry to disagree with the Giant -- but that was grim and kind of uncalled for. He wanted information anyway and cutting someone in half is not the way to get that.

As for being a speciesist in a way yes BUT goblins have a definite species alignment... They are not simply green humans -- they are stupid green evil humanoids living in a dungeon with limited capacity for reform.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and agree that it's mainly because the Goblins are known "jobbers" and it seemed that the Daddy and his Girl team were up-and-coming "supporting thespians".

Sometimes, you have to sacrifice what seemed like potentially major characters just to advance the plot.

Think Bambi's Mother. Obi Wan Kenobi in Episode IV(I think? I need to refresh my Geekdom) In this case, it establishes that BlueBoy is basically Lawful Neutral(the Judge), and the law basically states "If they attack you, you are free to defend yourself, with equal force." I don't think Mr Bandit was planning on doing subdual damage. He certainly acted pretty rashly. You never draw your weapons when the guy is right next to you with his out. Especially when he has won initiative against you.

Quick Breakdown of today's strip:

Surprise Round: Sam casts Hold Person. BB and Dad flat-footed. BB makes his save.
BB's turn: Draws and Kills Sam(Quickdraw? Possibly Iaijutsu. Doesn't matter because Sam is unarmed and cannot threaten.) Dad is flat-footed.
Dad's turn: Draws. Provokes AoO from BB. Dies.

[Kaerou]

Unlike all the whiners i liked todays strip. I mean.. everything else is getting killed pointlessly left right and centre, its about damn time it was humans too =P

To me, this is no different from the dragon or Kobold etc, getting killed. In fact, i liked the dragon and Kobold more.

I mean.. this is D&D, things die left right and centre, and nobody says a thing or seems to pay much attention.

Good job Rich, good job.

[cerebus151]

The thing that keeps it (the ultra-violence) from being a bad thing is that this is a D&D strip. This kind of violence happens in D&D all the time without most people batting an eye. And while samantha may be well and truly dead (cutting in half tends to do that), Daddy might stabilize and be found by the Druids and healed. One or both might get reincarnated (oh, the comic possibilities). Whatever. It's a D&D strip, and people die in D&D.

I also think that Rich might be taking out his mailing frustrations on two minor-league OOTS opponents. It could have been worse; it could have been Durkon.

[PicassoCat]

"Ultra violence"? "Grim"?

I would point out that the very first panel of the very first OOTS strip ever shows Roy chopping a goblin in half in the exact same manner. And let's not forget that Belkar has chopped surrendering goblins off at the knees, dismembered goblin ninjas, and wore Yikyik's skull as a hat!

If you react differently because Samantha is a human, then aren't you a species-ist? Aren't you being Belkar: "It's OK to chop goblins in half, because they have green skin and fangs."

You should all be ashamed of yourselves. :P ;)


EDIT: Darn, GreyRat slipped in ahead of me with an entirely reasonable point. Oh well.

Deaths occur, yes. But once your audience has formed an attachment to a character, a meaningless and/or brutal death - to serve as the set-up for a one-liner, no less - is jarring even in a comic strip. It's human nature to care more for characters (good or bad) who've become more than the old Star Trek "red-shirt" walk-ons. Consider it a tribute to how well realized Samantha and her father were.

[Grey Watcher]

"Ultra violence"? "Grim"?

I would point out that the very first panel of the very first OOTS strip ever shows Roy chopping a goblin in half in the exact same manner. And let's not forget that Belkar has chopped surrendering goblins off at the knees, dismembered goblin ninjas, and wore Yikyik's skull as a hat!

If you react differently because Samantha is a human, then aren't you a species-ist? Aren't you being Belkar: "It's OK to chop goblins in half, because they have green skin and fangs."

You should all be ashamed of yourselves. :P ;)


EDIT: Darn, GreyRat slipped in ahead of me with an entirely reasonable point. Oh well.

My objections have more to do with my preconceived notions about the mysterious stranger. It was just shocking because I had him pegged for someone who didn't go in for killing unless it was absolutely necessary.
(And yes, Samantha's spell and her father's drawing weapons probably qualifies as sufficient threat for a deadly response, but there's also my second point.)

And perhaps because I was expecting these characters to go on to a larger role in the story, unlike Unnamed Goblin Ninja #12." As GreyRat said, we got to know them, so their abrupt demise was rather shocking. It's not so much that they died, but that, especially given what kind of a threat Samantha was to the Order, their deaths were so abrupt and easy, and, again as someone pointed out, killing off two of your larger supporting characters simply to set up a punchline is... extreme. I think the gag would've flown better if he'd come accross a pair of Random Bandits or something. Although if shock was your goal, you win big time! ;D

As for the notion that he's actually after the Linear Guild, I don't think so. In #120 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=120), he's sent after the people responsible for destroying the gate. That's not the Linear Guild, that's the Order of the Stick. Actually it's specifically Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=118). Our favorite Bard may be in for more stabbing. :'(

On another note, the observant reader learns something new about the Mysterious Cloaked Figure. A close look at the panel in which he kill Samantha reveals that he appears to wear fairly heavy armor, which, I think, is good evidence against him being a Ranger. (You can see the shoulder plates.)

[Kanibeos]

Sorry to disagree with the Giant -- but that was grim and kind of uncalled for. He wanted information anyway and cutting someone in half is not the way to get that.




I'm sorry... are we discussing whether the character in the comic acted in justifiable way??? Nale really wanted the Talisman of Dorukan and sticking a sword through Elan may not have been the best way to do it but characters in a story answer to their own personalities not to our ideas of what is right... they just have to behave in a consistent manner and so far the blue-guy/gal has behaved extremely consistently for a duty-bound servant with a single minded devotion to a quest...

The Giant obviously didn't mean for them to play a role later in the storyline (unless he means to ressurect them) so why not use them to advance the storyline... it would be a shame to let developed charaters go to waste by simply never having them appear again.

[Mick_the_Rogue]

Ok people have we learned NOTHING from comic books?

The bad guy ALWAYS comes back. And in D&D ressurection is rather easy, all points considered.

So Samantha and her father are dead FOR NOW, they could come back with relative ease

[PicassoCat]

The Giant obviously didn't mean for them to play a role later in the storyline (unless he means to ressurect them) so why not use them to advance the storyline... it would be a shame to let developed charaters go to waste by simply never having them appear again.

I'd have preferred that, actually. Sometimes not knowing is the better choice.

Although it seems to be a minority opinion (six or eight of us), killing off "developed" characters has pretty much struck a nerve.

[Kanibeos]

I'd have preferred that, actually. Sometimes not knowing is the better choice.

Although it seems to be a minority opinion (six or eight of us), killing off "developed" characters has pretty much struck a nerve.

It's natural that it has an emotional effect when a character you've grown attached to dies but that IS a fairly common thing in fantasy-settings. Of course that doesn't mean it's necessarily comedy but developed bad guys HAVE been killed before. It happened to a couple of the linear guilders after all...

[Xander77]

It was just shocking because I had him pegged for someone who didn't go in for killing unless it was absolutely necessary. .I had him pegged as somewhat smarter than Elan. And yet...

[Kanibeos]

I had him pegged as somewhat smarter than Elan. And yet...



Actually he was the one who got attacked first by one and then by the other. Unless he were to capture and torture them (which I would see as VERY out of character) killing them wasn't exactly a stupid thing to do...

[Wayne]

Just wanted to register to toss in my sympathies for the people who didn't like the latest strip. It's always galling for interesting minor (well, sort of) characters to be killed off to build up an uninteresting major (well, sort of) one-- particularly when it's a setup for a flippant less-than-funny joke. And heck, rules-wise it didn't even make much sense-- the guy's a TWF from all appearances; they're about multiple weaker hits instead of singular big ones, unless he was using Iaijutsu Focus.

But anyway, yeah, just vocalizing my disappointment with the strip (the first one I can specifically recall not enjoying since I first started reading them-- which was around #23, I think, heh). It must be hard to be awesome most of the time, Rich-- you screw up just once, and everybody can tell. *chuckles* Oh well. Hopefully the rest will be back up to the level we all enjoy and love.

[bob_the_great]

I had him pegged as somewhat smarter than Elan. And yet...

thats funny because i have about ......everyone peged as sarter than elan
also i didnt think it was to violent and i dout that they will have anymore to do with the story nor would they have if they were still alive

[UnHoly_Ram]

They were believable, sympathetic characters, and seeing them slaughtered so abruptly was not funny. .

I completely disagree, the disregard for the lives of throwaway characters in the story, was hilarious. The characters that were slaughtered, might have been sympathetic, but lets not forget they were evil.

[UnHoly_Ram]

Poor script-writing. Very poor. Introducing two interesting characters, with a natural (and hinted at) continuing story arc, then (due to not being able/interested in continuing said story arc) getting rid of them in a pointless and non-interesting manner.

For shame Rich. For shame.


Maybe the characters were never meant to be more than the throw-away characters they were. While the interaction between the daughter and father was funny, it did not IMHO hint at a continuing story-arc, nor would it have been one I would like to have seen continued. Keeping them around to have them join the Blue guy, or the linear guild would have been the pointless and unintersting route.

By not having them join in a quest for vengeance against OotS, it helps add to the realism that the world isn't completely about OotS and not everyone they meet will be seen again.

The Bandits camp was funny, but at least The Giant let it die (pun intended) instead of keeping them around.

[Kish]

Yeah. This wasn't new. And "Racial alignment" is a pathetic moral dodge (Edit: Not to take a poke at anyone in this thread, just at whoever wrote the concept of "Always X alignment"--which, incidentally, isn't applied to goblins, who are Usually Neutral Evil--in the MM. If that person reads these boards too, then, um. Oops?). Setting aside, for the moment, the fact that each goblin is as much an individual as Samantha or her father (if not necessarily a named character--but neither is Sam's father), where was this reaction when Belkar killed those three innocent human barbarians to join the Barbarian's Guild?

[UnHoly_Ram]

Ok people have we learned NOTHING from comic books?

The bad guy ALWAYS comes back. And in D&D ressurection is rather easy, all points considered.

So Samantha and her father are dead FOR NOW, they could come back with relative ease

OR they really aren't THE BAD GUY, and this was a way to stop people from speculating that they had some future involvement in the story.

[UnHoly_Ram]

... where was this reaction when Belkar killed those three innocent human barbarians to join the Barbarian's Guild?

Which by the way, was freaking hilarious.

[PicassoCat]

It's natural that it has an emotional effect when a character you've grown attached to dies but that IS a fairly common thing in fantasy-settings. Of course that doesn't mean it's necessarily comedy but developed bad guys HAVE been killed before. It happened to a couple of the linear guilders after all...

Why, thank you. After a lifetime of reading, I might not have realized that it's a "fairly common thing." (And it is not necessarily a bad thing - one of the main characters on one of the few shows I watch was just killed off, in a manner entirely appropriate to the show and perfectly logical.)

It is not common, however, for said characters to be left healthy and out of the story for 18 chapters/episodes (the equivalent of "strips" here, as we are on #189 and they were left tied up at #171, some six weeks ago), only to be brought back in order to make their deaths the setup for a one-liner, or a point of character development for someone else. Who's next? At some point, one ceases to care.

Regardless, I found the strip to be grim and humorless. One's opinion of what constitutes "humor" isn't subject to change from either debate or chastisement, so those of you who disagree - including the Giant - will simply have to accept the difference.

As for the Linear Guild - Yikyik, I believe, was the only death, and its character was hardly well-developed. (The drow-who-shall-not-be-named-for-fear-of-lawyers was carried off by the copyright lawyers; Hilgya was rejected by Durkon and ran off; and I believe Nale, Samantha and Thog are still very much alive.)

[GreyRat]

EDIT: Darn, GreyRat slipped in ahead of me with an entirely reasonable point. Oh well.

Gotcha. :)
I feel like Roy. Then again, Roy doesn't have the most fun life. :-/ Maybe I'll go be like Elan instead; he's always cheerful.
If only Sam had followed his lead and stripped, Mr. Blue wouldn't have been able to see her...

[AtomicKitKat]

It is not common, however, for said characters to be left healthy and out of the story for 18 chapters/episodes (the equivalent of "strips" here, as we are on #189 and they were left tied up at #171, some six weeks ago), only to be brought back in order to make their deaths the setup for a one-liner, or a point of character development for someone else. Who's next? At some point, one ceases to care.

18 strips hardly constitutes 18 "episodes". Consider the space between any strip to be the "10 minute" ad break. Each strip takes place in about 10 minutes of the half(one?) hour episode. So for this example, it's about 3 episodes. How often did you see Deputy Mayor Allan on Buffy? How did he die? A stake through the heart, leading to Faith's descent into darkness. Usually, the directors/writers/producers have it written in the script "A shows up in episodes X, Y, Z.", and it's set in stone. However, sometimes, the crowd may like the character enough. In those cases, if it's possible, the writer/directors/producers might try to work future arcs around said character. Or, they may say "A was never fleshed out anyway." If a character is going to be killed off, I'd rather they do it onscreen, rather than off(exceptions being the actor dies IRL, like John Ritter did).

[Ravenlord]

Ohh c'me on people. They were pretty much your everday villain, even if Samantha was a better mage than V (afterall, she beated the whole party on her own). I personally was more annoyed at having the dragon disintegrated than the fall of these two...

...and this is a D&D comic afterall! =) Combatants can always end the bitter way.

Gogo blue!

[UnHoly_Ram]

I see it as a "I wish I had succeeded at the Gather Information check" comment, rather than a "Why didn't I think of using Gather Information?"

Wishful thinking.

I think the phrasing "..this could all have been avoided if I just made a gather information check.." as opposed to "...if I just mady my ..." seems to give away that he never attempted a check

[Mr._Blinky]

Although it was certainly... unexpected :o, it wasn't entirely unreasonable. I mean, the Giant probably wasn't planning on them comin back in the first place, so this puts an end to all speculation. Also, think about how this might effect the plot.

A. Both them get ressurected and now are POed at two different groups.
B. Same as A, but they are raised by the Linear Guild, who has been following the Order, used SwD, found out how much those two hate the Order, and enlist them (highly unlikely, but it could happen)
C. They come back as undead. I mean, seriously, after what has happened, I wouldn't be surprised if the Order or the blue guy had some Revenants coming after them.
D. Order discovers they need info from them on something, gos back, finds them dead, and does something to get the info (again, not likely, but possible)
E. They stay dead.

In D&D, just 'cause they're dead doesn't mean they're gone for good.

[Andorax]

If he is the Samurai that some of us suspect him to be, then these deaths were needed, in a sense.

A very "Samurai" attitude is that life is cheap, and killing people relatively unimportant.

Seeing blue cloak slaughter a goblin wouldn't have any impact whatsoever.

Seeing blue cloak slaughter the daughter of the axe salesman in town would clearly peg him as EVIL....also not the intended effect.

So the only way to produce a death that was non-evil, while still having some measure of "meaning" to us, was to off an NPC or two that we knew and thought of as "people" rather than chunks of XP.

I'm in the "if he had no other use for them" camp. If we weren't going to see the bandit duo again anyways, then by all means let them serve to establish the character we ARE going to see again...and thanks for the reminder that he is still on their trail.

[Gez]

I wouldn't classify Sam and her dad as "evil bad guys", they weren't that much. I'd peg them at CN (Samantha) and CG or CN with good tendancies (her daddy).

Anyway, I don't regret their death. When you have loose ends, you can tie them... or cut them. And Sam's death was funny.

Plus now we know the Blue Guy is indeed probably a Samurai, with Iaijutsu Focus and a good Will save. (A.k.a., the OA samurai, because the CW samurai isn't interesting.)

[Kanibeos]

Why, thank you. After a lifetime of reading, I might not have realized that it's a "fairly common thing." (And it is not necessarily a bad thing - one of the main characters on one of the few shows I watch was just killed off, in a manner entirely appropriate to the show and perfectly logical.)

It is not common, however, for said characters to be left healthy and out of the story for 18 chapters/episodes (the equivalent of "strips" here, as we are on #189 and they were left tied up at #171, some six weeks ago), only to be brought back in order to make their deaths the setup for a one-liner, or a point of character development for someone else. Who's next? At some point, one ceases to care.

Regardless, I found the strip to be grim and humorless. One's opinion of what constitutes "humor" isn't subject to change from either debate or chastisement, so those of you who disagree - including the Giant - will simply have to accept the difference.

As for the Linear Guild - Yikyik, I believe, was the only death, and its character was hardly well-developed. (The drow-who-shall-not-be-named-for-fear-of-lawyers was carried off by the copyright lawyers; Hilgya was rejected by Durkon and ran off; and I believe Nale, Samantha and Thog are still very much alive.)


Well it's all a matter of perspective really. At the speed comics are published on the website it has indeed been several weeks since we last heard from the bandit leaders but when reading the strips in a row on the website or reading them in the next OOTS book (if Rich decides to publish another ones) it will be just 10-30 minutes since the whole bandit storyline depending on how fast one reads. That hardly constitutes 18 chapters in a a book. It is somewhat comparable to sequals in some fantasy series: it's not fair to judge the book on the basis of how long it has been since the last one was published - the series should be judged as a whole once it's done. Reading the OOTS strips from beginning till end this last strip to me seems like a natural conclusion to the bandit storyline. It would have annoyed me if it had just been left hanging... that is a matter of taste though. I just don't see how one can complain that villains introduced and developed for a storyline within a sidequest are killed off roughly around the end of the storyline... give or take perhaps 20 minutes of reading. Particularly when the killing happens in an entirely consistent way - Samantha and her dad acted just like one would predict based on their earlier character development and the blue ones actions certainly don't contradict what we have learned earlier though it doesn't expand his personality in a certain direction...

On a different subject you are absolutely right that only Yikyik was killed off - my mistake. However personally I found him a hilarious character and his death was certainly brutal and didn't advance the storyline or character development in any significant way. Certainly it added less new insights into Belkars character than this most recent strip did in regards to the blue one...

I don't think anyone has really done much chastising on this matter but I do think it's okay to debate... that's kinda the point of posting things in the forum instead of writing it in a diary... sorry if anyone took offense though.

[Xander77]

Actually he was the one who got attacked first by one and then by the other. Unless he were to capture and torture them (which I would see as VERY out of character) killing them wasn't exactly a stupid thing to do...Actually, I was referring to the "You killed my daughter!!!" "Yes. Now, would you mind helping me?" exchange. Oh, and the whole untying powerful people without even bothering to check their power and attitude.

[Kanibeos]

I wouldn't classify Sam and her dad as "evil bad guys", they weren't that much. I'd peg them at CN (Samantha) and CG or CN with good tendancies (her daddy).

Anyway, I don't regret their death. When you have loose ends, you can tie them... or cut them. And Sam's death was funny.

Plus now we know the Blue Guy is indeed probably a Samurai, with Iaijutsu Focus and a good Will save. (A.k.a., the OA samurai, because the CW samurai isn't interesting.)

I had seen the more as CN and CE respectively... certainly it isn't a GOOD deed by the father to intend to leave the OOTS to the dire weasels in the woods. It doesn't say he's evil but it's certainly not in line with a good moral code all things considered. Samantha on the other hand shows no concern for even those closest to her in her pursuit of power... at least she's evil in the way Belkar is evil... as an egocentric child with a LOT of issues...

[Kanibeos]

Actually, I was referring to the "You killed my daughter!!!" "Yes. Now, would you mind helping me?" exchange. Oh, and the whole untying powerful people without even bothering to check their power and attitude.


I think that's the "lawful" part speaking... he's kinda like a machine... following a specific code for how to treat others and only being hostile when someone attacks him and thus gets in the way of his quest... "lawful stupid"...


[Edit: Added quote]

[Simonious]

What I think is most amusing is that this is a D&D comic strip and people are getting all upset over things that happen in D&D all the time. Like all of the time.

Some things are humorous to some and the same things are not to others. Some of you take this way, way too seriously. I agree with something our illustrious illustrator basically said, that the micro-analysis of the comic strip can ruin the fun.

So enjoy the ride. Who is the mysterious blue character? Who is his/her master? What sort of revenge is the Linear Guild going to come up with and our phylactrious lich is also plotting some unknown revenge. What is the creature in the dark? Will Belkar take another Barbarian level? Will Elan and Haley ever? Will Roy repair his sword with the starmetal? Etc, etc..

Rich, you are doing a great job, I enjoy reading your comic! So many thanks.

[Dathan]

Hi, I'm a first time poster here, and I'd like to point out that my gaming group has become thoroughly addicted to the Order. It is, all around, an excelent comic.

I would like to comment on the offense some have taken to the deaths of Samantha and her Dad. Someone already beat me to referring to Buffy, but I was reminded a lot of Angelus's killing of Jenny. It was brutal, unexpected to have a major character die, but advanced the storyline and characterized Angelus as totally, distastefully evil.

The blue guy killing our two favorite bandit leaders was unexpected (my jaw dropped this morning) but it was necessary to show the power and attitude of the blue guy. This will be a dangerous opponent for the stickers.

And finally, they may not be gone...remember this?
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=163

I think Samantha's ghose will qualify as both angry and vengeful as well ;D

[AtomicKitKat]

I would like to comment on the offense some have taken to the deaths of Samantha and her Dad. Someone already beat me to referring to Buffy, but I was reminded a lot of Angelus's killing of Jenny. It was brutal, unexpected to have a major character die, but advanced the storyline and characterized Angelus as totally, distastefully evil.

That would be moi, and thanks for reminding me about Jenny/Angelus. The killing of Tara Maclay was also what was needed to advance the "Willow as Big Bad" arc.

[garand]

I'd just like to say .... HA!

Weeks and weeks of posts requesting and hoping that Sam join the Linear Guild ended in one simple "scheeenk!"

Great strip ... I've known too many people who think they are bad-ass and immediately assume they are the best. That's why I like D&D ... cause in the real world you can't cut the self-centered b***h in half. Not without consequences, at least (or staining the rug for that matter).

I know Blue wants to kill my favorite stick figures, but in this case I say "Huzzah!"

Feeling particularly CE this week,
Garand

[Meagen]

This seems to be another of those "funny-but-disturbing" strips that Rich likes to hit us with. (See: mr. real weaponsmith going "...help me".) The joke coming in unexpectedly on top of much grievious violence has its humor grusomely enhanced.

[Xander77]

There was a joke in that strip?

*Checks back*

Oh, you meant the gather information thing. I suppose that if Rich killed every single speaking role NPC in the comic to "enchance it", it might have actually made it into the "fairly lame" league.

[Kaerou]

touchy.

I agree with Rich.. speciesist! :D

[Knight13]

I thought this was a good strip. Strangely, Sam getting chopped in half was less gratuitous than having three holes in her from Haley's arrows. Also, I'm not sorry to see them go, they were just too annoying to use as recurring characters.

BG must be pretty high-level if he could kill them both with one slice each.

[Matuse]

Talk about hyperbole...kill every speaking role? Please. Hardly any speaking role characters have been killed (not compared to speakers who have NOT been killed, and certainly nothing compared to non-speakers who have bitten the dust).

Hell, I thought that Samantha's dad had croaked when Durkon landed a tree on him.

Not sure why people are getting so worked up over such minor characters. Ultra-violent? Uh, right...there wasn't even any blood. Ultraviolence would have viscera.

[Lawful_Stupid]

Actually, if you look close when Blue Guy stabs Sam's dad, you can see a red cut, so he is bleeding a bit. And Sam still has the holes in her from Haley's arrows (even though Blue Guy didn't do that).

Anyway, I actually liked this comic. It could've been a little better by not killing off Sam's dad since he wasn't too bad or evil, but beggers can't be choosers I suppose.

[Bill]

Deaths occur, yes. But once your audience has formed an attachment to a character, a meaningless and/or brutal death - to serve as the set-up for a one-liner, no less - is jarring even in a comic strip. It's human nature to care more for characters (good or bad) who've become more than the old Star Trek "red-shirt" walk-ons.

If there is one thing i truly hate it is plot immunity. There is no suspense if you know all the "good guys" at the start of the story can't really die or be permanently injured. That is juvenile writing.

This infests modern day writing. No one does tragedy any more because everything has to have a sunny, happy, Disney ending. Heck, even classic tragedies are re-done with happy endings.

Bleh.

[Grey Watcher]

Personally, I don't even really mind that they died for the sake of a joke, it's just that A) their deaths caught me by surprise, and B) the joke was disappointing. Plus, everything else we've seen of the Blue Guy makes the Gather Information line feel like an out of character wisecrack. I mean, he's all seriousness and discipline. His dialogue has been pretty utilitarian. Right to the point, no muss, no fuss, and he suddenly, out of the blue makes a wry comment. Maybe it might have flown better if another character made the comment, like that side-kick-wannabe squirrel we saw in 174 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=174). *shrug* I personally wasn't bothered by the blacksmith being Thog's "puppy," so I'm entitled to be less than thrilled with a strip or two.

[Sundog]

I quite enjoyed this strip - but I frely acknowledge this as a good example of Black Humour. And not everyone gets that.

Still, it's totally in character for everybody. And don't forget that the OOTS has been slaughtering sentient creatures since ep. 1.

Oh and Atomic Kit Kat, regardiing


Surprise Round: Sam casts Hold Person. BB and Dad flat-footed. BB makes his save.
BB's turn: Draws and Kills Sam(Quickdraw? Possibly Iaijutsu. Doesn't matter because Sam is unarmed and cannot threaten.) Dad is flat-footed.
Dad's turn: Draws. Provokes AoO from BB. Dies.


I agree up to the last line. Drawing a weapon does not provoke an AOO.

[Adolfo]

True, but drawing two weapons might be a standard action if I'm not wrong, unless he has quick draw. I'm not very sure with this rules......

curse my DM for his VERY high level gaming. Made us face 2 Balor Lords.

[Payne]

No one does tragedy any more because everything has to have a sunny, happy, Disney ending. Heck, even classic tragedies are re-done with happy endings.


I refer to the jury the case of Disney's "The little Mermaid".
Hanssen must be spinning in his grave.

(in my best Samuel L. Jackson voice)

"Yeah they deserved to die! I hope they burn in hell!"

[JD]

I liked it, it didn't really bother me that they died (of course I checked it 15 minutes after I awoke, so that might have had something to do with it).

Needless violence? Have any of you ever SEEN D&D? You gain experience by killing creatures, innocent or not. Ambush Bob the Farmer (commoner 1) will net you the same amount of XP as John the Guard (warrior 1) in a fair fight. The only difference is how easy the victory is.

The samurai (who could be multiclass IMHO) needs XP, so he kills a few people hoping to level before he reaches OotS.

Hoping to Jinx things: Has anyone considered that the samurai might kill OotS? It would be the definitive end of the comic (and this might be a prediction of the Giant, hope he sees this and changes it) if the Blue Guy makes a TPK.

[Ravenlord]

Hoping to Jinx things: Has anyone considered that the samurai might kill OotS? It would be the definitive end of the comic (and this might be a prediction of the Giant, hope he sees this and changes it) if the Blue Guy makes a TPK.

The Giant implied somewhere that OOTS will go on for a long time... I don't think a few days from now is that long, so I don't think the blue guy would finish them off. =)

[Sc00by]

Of course he could finish a *few* of them off ;)

I liked the current issue, tidied things up nicely... And really made teh point that the dude in blue means business in a to the point and above all slashy kind of a way.

Whilst not as funny as some recent OotSs it has made me stop and wonder what will happen when Mr Blue catches up with the OotS. I think we may see our 1st PC fatality* (man can you imagine the outcry on the boards if that happens?)

*esp if Belkar opens his mouth...

[Lou]

I didn't see it as killing off developed characters to set up a cheap joke - it was a strip of major plot advancement, with a DnD rules joke tacked on at the end, to fill in the final panel and to remind us that this is still OOTS despite all the seriousness.

Sure, it was a bit brutal, but I've seen worse.

[GeeVee]

I completely agree with the last two posters.
This wasn't to set up a joke, it was plot and character advancement.
That, and some of you are acting like there had been a big announcement saying Samantha and her dad were going to become recurring characters and join the Linear Guild.

And could you please point me to the "Ultra-Violent" part? That is, something that hasn't happened before in the strip?

[Nikolai_II]

And could you please point me to the "Ultra-Violent" part? That is, something that hasn't happened before in the strip?

Cutting someone with a name and history in two parts. YMMV.

And don't come complaing about Yikyik, that was done tastefully off-stage, instead of displaying Belkar as he scoops out Yikyiks brain from his head to be able to use it as a hat we see him after the deed is done..

[Kanibeos]

And don't come complaing about Yikyik, that was done tastefully off-stage, instead of displaying Belkar as he scoops out Yikyiks brain from his head to be able to use it as a hat we see him after the deed is done..

Imagination my friend... imagination...

[GeeVee]

Cutting someone with a name and history in two parts. YMMV.

And don't come complaing about Yikyik, that was done tastefully off-stage, instead of displaying Belkar as he scoops out Yikyiks brain from his head to be able to use it as a hat we see him after the deed is done..

Every villain has a name. That doesn't make her important to the story. And history? Don't make me laugh. MBG has only appeared in three strips, yet he has a more developed character than Samantha.
As a matter of fact, you can describe Samantha's personality as a whole using only one word: Brat.

[Pvednes]

There so should have been some Quentin Tarantino jokes with that bit of senseless violence. C'est la vie.

[Wally]

This strip beautifully summarizes my party's escapades. We're not really diplomats....


Also, I think this is a very important part of the blue guy's characterization. Or maybe one of the only parts.

[Grey Watcher]

I quite enjoyed this strip - but I frely acknowledge this as a good example of Black Humour. And not everyone gets that.

I acknowledge that it's black humor (which I like), it's just in my opinion it's not that good.

I also freely acknowledge that it does give us some new information about BG. I know that it revised my view of him. Actually, now that I'm beyond being surprised and a little shocked by the sudden deaths of named characters, it's actually OK. By far not the Giant's best work, but I find that I'm accepting the darker turn of events.

[Mr._Blinky]

Also, to those of you who think that this was "ultra-violent", as D&D webcomics go, it really wasn't. Sure, it was unexpectadly brutal for OotS, but there are much more violet D&D strips out there.
Example #1: 8-bit Theatre. Need I say more, especially fro what happened to BB (for those of you who read the strip)?
Example #2: Dungeon Crawl In. Recently, they had a comic of Arudin, the parties elf wizard, being tortured for info. I'd say thats much more brutal than this, in certain respects. But I didn't complain, because it advanced the plot. And I doubt Sam and pop will be completely forgotten. They'll probably be at least mentioned later in the strip.

[KreenWarrior]

This strip was done for two reasons, in my opinion:

A) To show the Blue Guy as being a powerful character, and that he's an actual threat to the OotS.

B) To get rid of two loose ends I'm guessing the Giant never wanted to have a further role in the plot, but then he saw how attached people were to them and wanted to end requests for them to show up again.

And there's been plenty of violence in the strip before, and I'm not sure why them being named makes a difference. Maybe I've just read too many fantasy books where the author kils off charactersfor no good reason (and then ignores the numerous ways to ressurect characters in the setting).

[Ravenlord]

Cutting someone with a name and history in two parts. YMMV.
I fail to see how chopping things in half suddenly turns different when someone was seen in three strips before... slicing remains slicing. Besides, Samantha was hardly anyone who you could relate friendly to - unless you are a ironhand leader who is ready to kill anyone on first disagreement. ;D

[Kaerou]

He's a Lawful EVIL assasin.

I fail to see the problem.

Not sure about her dad, but she was most definately evil, and powerful.

But as they say, one bully tried to bully a bigger bully, she payed the price.

It was her own descision to attack him, especially with no protections up.

It sums up quite nicely, that this guy, far from being the cuddly ranger who talks to animals, is actually a lawful Evil assasin who plays by the rules to get his way.

[Lou]

What has he done that makes him evil? All he's done that I recall is follow orders, find information, and kill two people in self-defence.

[Sneak]

I guess, but a Good person wouldn't say this: "My blades will be bathed in the blood of those responsible." That's definitely an Evil thing to say.

[Shatteredtower]

A katana and wakizashi, extreme devotion of his Master, extreme Lawful behaviour, and extreme measures of self defense DO a samurai make.

That's backward.

A samurai is a katana and a wakizashi, extreme devotion of his Master, extreme Lawful behaviour, and extreme measures of self defense.

In point of fact, you can play a samurai without ever using either of the two weapons in question. You can play a samurai without any need to adhere to what's being perceived as "extreme" Lawful behaviour. And there's simply nothing extreme in the lengths he went to in his self-defense, not by the measures of this fantasy society, nor by measures a knight of France would have adhered to during the late Dark Ages.

So neither do the swords and behaviours prove him a samurai nor is a D&D samurai proven by the swords and conduct.


And the samurai class is a part of D&D. Get over it.

I assure you, there's nothing to get over. Assuming that he must be samurai is the position based on preconceptions. Reaching the conclusion that the weapons do not make the man is keeping an open mind on the possibilities. If the Giant wants a samurai, he's a samurai. If he doesn't, it's just a warrior class with a stylized long sword and short sword (which preconceptions lead some people to see a "katana and wakizashi) and a code of behaviour that is so commonplace that one wonders why everyone would assume that only the samurai would adhere to it. Loyalty to a master from someone who returns fire when fired upon is a staple of the game.


Just because the OoTS is from a Western style area doesn't mean the entire world is Western style.

But nothing about the character in question screams samurai, either. It can be, but there's nothing about it that can't be covered with other class choices. In the end, the character, not the class, is what matters.

As for the song, Atomic Kit Kat, it's "Butterfly." Sorry, DDR on the brain again.

As for throwaway characters, especially in regard to Buffy, I always thought the best of those was the Annoying One. Sometimes, you've just got to clear the table and realize that the hero does not get a reckoning with every villain left behind. I have found it frustrating when a character I liked got offed instead of expanded upon, but a writer can only do so much!

At least they served a purpose within the story and it wasn't to set up a punchline. It's not the first time we've seen an OotS strip do this, as has been mentioned before. We know this guy can cut down a wounded ranger (who had previously clashed with Roy and a tree) with a single strike. We don't know if he made a modest Will save or is not humanoid, but at least now we have cause to wonder.

I didn't find it funny, but I don't expect an ongoing storyline to be funny all of the time, and I don't think it was meant to approach side-splitting quality. I'd be interested in hearing the Giant expand upon what he meant or intended for the character to mean with that last statement, but I get the general idea.

It reminds me of an observation someone made about Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn. There were a lot of little encounters you could have that seemed to suggest bigger events you couldn't explore. When one person complained about this, she spoke up and said it was one of the things she liked -- the idea that not everything going on in this wide world had to do with you. Sometimes all you get is a taste of what might have been if conditions didn't dictate otherwise.

Even if they only died like this because the Giant decided, "You know, I've changed my mind," I can accept that. I might not always like it and I might think he missed some great opportunities that might have otherwise been available to explore, but he's got more resources to explore than he'll ever be able to use as it is and I think I can trust him to make the decision for where he wants to go.

Hopefully, I'll never give him cause to throw those words back in my face. ;)

[Kish]

I guess, but a Good person wouldn't say this: "My blades will be bathed in the blood of those responsible." That's definitely an Evil thing to say.
Yeah. Someone like Roy would never say that about someone like Xykon. <sarcasm tag>

[Sundog]

It's true, Sneak that from his actions he's probably not Good. But there's a big spectrum between "not good" and "Evil".

Lawful Neutral Human (possibly Elf) Samurai. That's where I'm sitting until I get more information.

[Matuse]

I guess, but a Good person wouldn't say this: "My blades will be bathed in the blood of those responsible." That's definitely an Evil thing to say.

Sorry, but this is a very primitive understanding of alignment.

There is nothing in any alignment which forbids killing.

There is nothing in any alignment which forbids getting mad.

There is nothing in any alignment which prevents self-defense.

There is nothing in any alignment which prevents pacifism (yes, you can be chaotic evil and a completely nonviolent pacifist without even slightly compromising your alignment).

There is nothing in any alignment which prohibits vengeance.

Yes, even dyed-in-the-wool I'm-so-Lawful-Good-it-makes-your-eyes-bleed Paladins can swear vengeance against someone, and kill them. Absent any additional facts (like the person being sworn vengeance against and killed is a 2 month old baby) This neither violates their Paladin's oath, nor their alignment.

There is nothing in the least to suggest that MBC is evil. Quite the opposite. He is out to punish those responsible for the destruction of a *good* artifact.

--edit: On the topic of MBC and his class. Sorry, but weapons and seemingly lawful behavior does not a samurai make. Samurai, with the one-in-a-million exception, did not dual wield, for starters. For seconders..let's see, someone on a dedicated mission to punish someone perceived to have done wrong, using a curved sword, and killing people who gets in their way.

Does that remind you of someone who is definitely not a samurai? (http://killbill.movies.go.com/)

[KreenWarrior]

Somehow I don't see a samurai as the "hooded assassin" type. Also, I'd expect a samurai to call someone his "Lord", not his "Master" (very nitpicky distinction, though). As to what he is, who knows? Maybe he's related to Xykon's ubermonster?

He seems very Lawful Neutral to me. Sorry, but killing people, even in self defense, when you are clearly massively superior to them (killing in one stroke), makes it unlikely that you're a good character. A good character might have killed Sam, but not her father (of course, that's my opinion).

Actually, its still possible he's after the Linear Guild, he said "his information" said that one of them was a halfling, not that it was true (but that's probably irrelevant).

I think I'm noticing things that aren't there, but his arms didn't seem normal to me for a lot of the parts of this strip. They seem to come more from his chest than from his shoulders, and to bend oddly. Probably just an effect of his cloak and the Giant's merely human drawing skills, but its wonderaboutable.

[silvadel]

If he is lawful neutral in a campaign of mine he would be dinged 1 point in lawfulness(on a 100 scale) for forgetting to use gather information. He would be moved 5 points towards evil for killing the father without really giving him a chance. Killing the sorceress would not have caused any alignment shift.

[bluish_wolf]

How is forgetting to use gather information a lawful action?

I do not think any of the cloaked figure's actions so far have been indicative of his/her alignment. The only thing that even remotely resembles lawfulness is the way he/she refers to his/her master

Simply because he/she refers to his/her master as "master" does not necessarily mean lawful alignment.

Also, the "... my blades will be bathed in the blood of those responsible," bit is certainly not evil. I mean, he is punishing assumed evil, after all. No evil intent whatsoever.

The encounter with the bandits does not show his alignment either.

While he/she said that he/she would not serve any mortal, save his/her master, and this could be an indication that he/she is honor-bound, there are other possibilities.
Highlight to read. Avoiding reading this if you are the Gaint:

A) He/she is incredibly arrogant and considers all other mortals (with the exception of his/her master) to be beneath him. This why he/she rejected the animal sidekick.
B) He/she was gaesed (or some other form of magic) into service. He/she hates working under other people.
C) He/she was lying and actually is the servant of thousands. Unlikely, I know
D) The bandits were obviously scumbags and working under them would be more trouble than it was worth.


The father did draw his swords, so, it would have been wise to make the first move and stab. This is neither a good or evil action, simply a smart one.

You can't tell how tough someone is by looking at them. So, just because he killed them both in one attack, it does not mean that they were obviously weaker then him.

They attacked him/her without any real provoction. If the Order of the Stick were there, they would probally have done the same thing.

In closing, I would like to point out that samurai aren't the only people who use katana and similar curvy weapons.

[Nerd-o-rama]

"Impaled. I impaled him from behind. You don't stab someone with a sword."
-Cyborg Ninja, Chaotic Evil 20th level...erm...Cyborg Ninja.

Anyway, let's sort out what we know about Mysterious Blue Cloaked Guy.

1. He wields two bladed weapons, one long, one short. Both appear to be distinctly curved. He also appears to be a consummate melee fighter.
2. He's exceptionally focused on the mission given to him by his master, and exhibits other Lawful tendencies.
3. He wears a concealing blue cloak.
4. He has no moral compunctions about a pre-emptive attack on a weakened opponent, if threatened, and he tends to engage in oaths of rather violent assault on people he has never met, but has been ordered to kill.
5. He's a reasonably good detective/tracker, managing to follow the OotS despite getting vague clues from witnesses. Probably a high Gather Info modifier.
6. He can understand magical weasels.

Anyone consider he's perhaps a Justiciar (Complete Warrior)? No, on second thought, those guys are better for live bounty missions than multiple assassinations.

Actually, there have been a few decent points raised that he could be a (somewhat) misguided Paladin in the Blue Guy thread. That actually could be true, especially if he were a Shadowbane Inquisitor, otherwise known as a Guiltless Paladin.

Oh, and so much for Sam and Daddy joining the Linears...

[Matuse]

He would be moved 5 points towards evil for killing the father without really giving him a chance.

How did he not give the father a chance? MBC may have had an unrealistic expectation for the father's reaction to his daughter being killed, but MBC most certainly gave him a chance to back down.


4. He has no moral compunctions about a pre-emptive attack on a weakened opponent, if threatened,

There was nothing pre-emptive about killing Samantha. SHE ATTACKED HIM FIRST.

[Kish]

Yeah. I mean--really, how was s/he supposed to react to a powerful sorcerer screaming at him/her, "You'll serve me or you'll die!" and casting a Hold Person spell on him/her? Even if s/he is actually immune to Hold Person (and thus didn't need to worry about failing a Will save if Sam did it again), Sam left little ambiguity about the fact that she would switch to more lethal spells before she would show either the slightest bit of gratitude or enough prudence to let him/her walk away peacefully.

I would guess an average-at-best Charisma, though--the way s/he reacted to Sam's father getting upset showed limited social skills. (Actually, it occurs to me that this could be a joke about the old 3.0 rule of Intimidate being based solely on Charisma, so that a half-orc is less intimidating than a human. "Yes, you just demonstrated conclusively that it would be suicide to attack you, but your Charisma is low so I'm not impressed!")

[Sylian]

Sams father did try to hit him.
He just defended himself. He might as well be Lawfull good. Who knows?

[Sundog]

I don't believe a LG person would swear to kill the perpetrators of a crime of property (no one was actually harmed physically by the destruction of the gate, after all - save Xykon, who being a Lich, doesn't count).

A Lawful Good person might swear to bring the perpetrators to justice, which might well involve their deaths - but I don't believe their deaths would be the prime motive. That's why I say Lawful Neutral.

As for Sam and her Father, Blue Guy had every reason to do exactly as he did, whatever alignment he is.

[Gez]

Cutting someone with a name and history in two parts. YMMV.

That's a bit like saying "Cutting someone who happens to be a (presumably, because they're just stick figures anyway) hot sorcerer chick named Samantha in two parts."

Cutting people in two parts already happened. Samantha had a tiny history, but really, she was a supporting NPC in a sidequest (free Elan) within a sidequest (get starmetal).

And I'll tell you that goblin mooks have a name ("goblin mooks"), a long history (everybody's favorite sword-fodder since 1974), and have been cut in twain since panel 1 of first strip of the OotS. :P

(Speaking of that first OotS panel ever, I just noticed Belkar there has his weapon 3.5-ized already).

[Tiger Duck]

I wonder if anyone will read this.

[Gez]

(Actually, it occurs to me that this could be a joke about the old 3.0 rule of Intimidate being based solely on Charisma, so that a half-orc is less intimidating than a human. "Yes, you just demonstrated conclusively that it would be suicide to attack you, but your Charisma is low so I'm not impressed!")

Intimidation is more than just showing off your muscles. A level 15 rogue with 8 Str, 20 Dex, Weapon Finesse, Quick Draw, and +8d6 sneak attack is more dangerous than a first-level half-orc fighter with 20 Str. A frail, sickly-looking, and elderly sorcerer 28th could obliterate you with a Suddenly Quickened Epic Implosion in the blink of an eye and remove all traces of your existence.

Intimidation is not showing you're dangerous, it's making people really afraid of you. (Even if you're just a wimp, in fact. If you're really good at maiming people, it may be simpler to just maim them, that'll persuade them more efficiently.)

For the rest, use "the DM's best friend" -- circumstance modifiers. If you think a fighter making a show of strength would give him a circumstance bonus to Intimidate checks, give him a +2 bonus on that checks. If you think the target of the Intimidation would be especially receptive to that threat, give her a -2 circumstance penalty on her opposed check (1d20+level+Wis bonus+possible modifiers on saves against fear). That's the equivalent of a +4 bonus on the check, wich is also the difference between a bad Charisma modifier (score of 8-9) and a good one (score of 16-17).

Anyway, all that is rather irrelevant to the comic. Since Blue Boy forgot to make a Gather Information check, he would also have forgotten to make an Intimidate check.

[Gez]

whats with the 'sams father is good(neutral)'
he attackt his own douther when she was low on hp and spells, sounds pretty evil to me

Puh-leaze!

He challenged her when it was convenient, that's not evil, that's sane.

If he had attacked her with lethal damage, or with a sadistic glee, or some other awful abuse, yeah.

But there's nothing evil with attacking people when they're weak. Unless you consider "giving yourself a chance of winning" is evil.

[Tiger Duck]

dude i'ts his own flesh and blood
you have got to have a dam goed reasen to attack her
and i don't kwalifie leaderschip of some stupid clan a good reasen

[The Glyphstone]

dude i'ts his own flesh and blood
you have got to have a dam goed reasen to attack her
and i don't kwalifie leaderschip of some stupid clan a good reasen

and getting control of the clan is the POINT of attacking her..that's why he did it. If you've read the previous comics, that's how you get control of the clan - by defeating the current leader. Besides, she did it to him in the first place.

[AtomicKitKat]

As for the song, Atomic Kit Kat, it's "Butterfly." Sorry, DDR on the brain again.

I know that. I even linked to the lyrics. I was asking SilveryCord about his song.

[Pharazon]

Somehow, this discussion is starting to remind me of
Sarine (http://www.errantstory.com/d/20021204.html). The blades may not be curved (which might be the deciding factor here, but I doubt that), but she's dual-wielding, wearing a cloak and heavy armor, and she can kill people with one unsuspected attack. And she's a ranger, not some Asian class. Now I know Errant Story has no connection with D&D, but I just wanted to show the resemblance I noticed... the Blue Guy might just be a Ranger with a preference for curved blades.

Oh, and I liked the comic... but I've always preferred plot/character-development above a good but irrelevant punchline, so that might just be me :)

Btw, am I allowed to link to other comics here? If not, I apologize.

Edit: As you'll notice, THAT comic is ultra-violence. In terms of violence, today's OotS episode is nothing compared to Errant Story. So lighten up ;)

[Mr._Blinky]

Really people, it's quiet simple.

Talks to animals: ranger.
Fights with two weapons: ranger.
Tracker: ranger.
Is good in melee: ranger.
Has cloak: ranger.

I think that if you look closesly you begin to see a pattern...

[The Giant]

I guess, but a Good person wouldn't say this: "My blades will be bathed in the blood of those responsible." That's definitely an Evil thing to say.

Yeah. Someone like Roy would never say that about someone like Xykon. <sarcasm tag>

Of course he wouldn't—Xykon's a SKELETON! No blood!

Geez.

[Yuki Akuma]

Really people, it's quiet simple.

Talks to animals: ranger.
Fights with two weapons: ranger.
Tracker: ranger.
Is good in melee: ranger.
Has cloak: ranger.

I think that if you look closesly you begin to see a pattern...

Talks to animals: Druid, Ranger, Gnome, anyone with good Use Magic Device and a scroll of Speak With Animals...
Fights with two weapons: Anyone with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat...
Tracker: Anything with the Track feat...
Is good in melee: Any class with Fighter BaB progression...
Has cloak: Anyone with enough sense to own warm clothing...

There was no point to this post, really. Just thought I'd point out the flaws in your logic.

[Kish]

Of course he wouldn't—Xykon's a SKELETON! No blood!

Geez.
"My blades will be bathed in the bone marrow of those responsible" just doesn't have the same ring to it, somehow.

[AtomicKitKat]

"My blades will be bathed in the bone marrow of those responsible" just doesn't have the same ring to it, somehow.

"My party shall be covered in the bone dust of he who is responsible!" ;D

[Mr._Blinky]

Talks to animals: Druid, Ranger, Gnome, anyone with good Use Magic Device and a scroll of Speak With Animals...
Fights with two weapons: Anyone with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat...
Tracker: Anything with the Track feat...
Is good in melee: Any class with Fighter BaB progression...
Has cloak: Anyone with enough sense to own warm clothing...

There was no point to this post, really. Just thought I'd point out the flaws in your logic.

Umm yeah, except how many other people are going to have all those and still be maxed in their primary job. These are all trademarks of the stereotypical ranger. BG fits the description of almost any ranger I or anyone in my group have ever played. These things basically are what I think about when I hear the word ranger. True, plenty of people will have these individual abilities, but most people don't have all of them. Also, I saw no scroll or item for him to cast SwA from. And he's obvioiusly not a gnome. I doubt this guy's a paladin, so the only class with that BAB progression besides ranger is fighter. So he wouldn't have speak with animals. True, you could have a wizard with all of these things (except BAB), but I still doubt this guys a wizard. As individual abilities, many people could have them. But very few non-rangers have them all.

[Kish]

I don't believe a LG person would swear to kill the perpetrators of a crime of property (no one was actually harmed physically by the destruction of the gate, after all - save Xykon, who being a Lich, doesn't count).
Um...actually, the destruction of the gate involved BLOWING UP THE MOUNTAIN. Any surviving goblins certainly died, and all those 2ed monsters except the two flumphs, and who knows who else off-screen. We also have no idea at all what effect it had on the other side of the gate.

[Lawful_Stupid]

The destruction of the Dungeon of Durokan has to make you wonder if Hilgya made it out before it exploded.

[Arian]

"My party shall be covered in the bone dust of he who is responsible!" ;D

"of him who is responsible," if you please. :P

[Shatteredtower]

"of him who is responsible," if you please. :P

Though "...of 'He-Who-Is-Responsible'," would be better still. :P

[Sundog]

Um...actually, the destruction of the gate involved BLOWING UP THE MOUNTAIN. Any surviving goblins certainly died, and all those 2ed monsters except the two flumphs, and who knows who else off-screen. We also have no idea at all what effect it had on the other side of the gate.


No, not as such, actually. The mountain was destroyed by Elan setting off the self-destruct mechanism. The gate was destroyed when Xykon hit it, I think.

Anyway, Blue Guy isn't told to avenge the destruction of the mountain, but only the gate.

[Grey Watcher]

No, not as such, actually. The mountain was destroyed by Elan setting off the self-destruct mechanism. The gate was destroyed when Xykon hit it, I think.

Anyway, Blue Guy isn't told to avenge the destruction of the mountain, but only the gate.


115 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=115) is unclear. It is the last strip in which the gate appears, but, since that does not appear as though it is being damaged by the explosion, I assumed that Xykon's defeat did not destroy the gate. I was under the impression that the gate was not destroyed until the whole castle blew up on top of it. But now that you mention it, it could be interpreted that the gate was destroyed with Xykon's body, and thus Roy, not Elan, is the person directly responsible for destroying the gate.

[mimicgogo]

New comic! Great comedy. It's kind of weird how Xykon is regenerating though. I always assumed that was an instantaneous thing. *Sniff* Such a touching moment at the end.

[silvadel]

Interesting how tenuous redcloaks' evil is. Almost seems that without X egging him on he wouldnt be evil at all -- maybe there is a chance of turning him...

[Lilly]

Shiney new comic!

I like how Xykon is just a skull now. At least he's out of the holy symbol.

I have a feeling that if Redcloak had been raised and kept in a good aligned village, he would be good as well.

[manscatha]

Yay! The demon roaches are back! And Redcloak! And the Secret Weapon!

Am now awaiting the nitpicky discussion of all their alignments. The Secret Weapon seems to be leaning towards Good, no?

Hail the demon roaches!

[SumGuy]

And now apparantly, the Demon Roaches are Postmen...

[Kish]

115 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=115) is unclear. It is the last strip in which the gate appears, but, since that does not appear as though it is being damaged by the explosion, I assumed that Xykon's defeat did not destroy the gate. I was under the impression that the gate was not destroyed until the whole castle blew up on top of it. But now that you mention it, it could be interpreted that the gate was destroyed with Xykon's body, and thus Roy, not Elan, is the person directly responsible for destroying the gate.
Very unlikely. The gate fried lots of goblins before Xykon hit it; Xykon was so unconcerned with any possible negative effects on the gate that he was sending them to touch it for fun. Why should Xykon being the one who touched it make such a difference? To the gate, Xykon is just one more evil person who touched it and paid the price. I'd say it's pretty clear the self-destruct rune is what destroyed it (along with the mountain).

[Nikolai_II]

Shiney new comic!

I like how Xykon is just a skull now. At least he's out of the holy symbol.

I have a feeling that if Redcloak had been raised and kept in a good aligned village, he would be good as well.

Eek! I have to run and see. *stepstepstepstep*

*step step step step* Aah - that felt good. More death and carnage, but in a lighthearted manner, and off-stage. ;D

Today recently became a national holdiay so I'm not at work, completely forgetting about that this is a monday and comic day. ::)

[Baatezu]

Is Redcloak a really big goblin or are the hobgoblins in this village really small? because as far as i know, goblins are 3 feet high and hobgoblins are 6.5 feet and in the comic they seem the same height

and another thing: should we now call the hobgoblins "avalanche fodder"?

[Gez]

Is Redcloak a really big goblin or are the hobgoblins in this village really small? because as far as i know, goblins are 3 feet high and hobgoblins are 6.5 feet and in the comic they seem the same height

and another thing: should we now call the hobgoblins "avalanche fodder"?

And D&D goblins are brownish yellow, orange, or red, not green. Your point was?

[Ravenlord]

What are the chances of a rain coming right after the avalanche? ;D

*imagines the whole hobgoblin camp doing raindance*

[JD]

"Shout if you DON'T find anything!"

[Sc00by]

:)

Me like...
Redcloak does seem to be evil by proxy doesn't he?

He hasn't so much fallen as sauntered vaugley downwards.

Oh and; Snow the roaches!

[Sebastian]

"...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"

"Please, tell me it is full of cute, fuzzy bunnies and they named it like that only to be ironic"

;D ;D ;D classic.

[GeeVee]

"*Sniff* My little Redcloak's all grown up."

Great comic.

[straphael]

This week`s comic panel is very funny, but I wonder what Roy`ll do with his Starmetal.

[PokeTheBard]

This week`s comic panel is very funny, but I wonder what Roy`ll do with his Starmetal.

Throw it over his shoulder when the Order go back home, and it will hit Blue Guy in the head, score a critical and kill him. Lol... Just a though ::)

[Pharazon]

Actually, note the key word "usually" in the fifth panel: "there isn't usually another one until after it rains again". Which means it doesn't have to rain for a new avalanche to come down... it may be of less 'amplitude', if you will, but still be lethal.

But that umbrella sure looks sturdy... might keep them safe from a few rocks :)

[GreyRat]

Oh entertaining Giant, I have a query:
Remembering the buzz engendered by last Friday's strip, I wonder what do you think of a forum's ability to provide instant feedback- good, discouraging, overwhelming, casually interesting? All of the above?

[Aser]

Redcloak, Xykon, AND giant demon roach -- gosh, is it Christmas already?