Arena Tournament, Round 14: Bobthefighter vs Bloatsack The Vile

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 14: BobTheFighter vs. Bloatsack the Vile

Map

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z83/Bitzeralisis/Arena%20Tournament%20Maps/Sambusei.gif


XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

BobTheFighter - kme (http://www.thetangledweb.net/addon.php?addon=Profiler&page=view_char&cid=367)
Bloatsack the Vile - Paladin Latham (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=26346)

All combatants, please roll initiative.

[kme]

initiative [roll0]

This time I won't make the same mistake and start before seeing your final items :smallbiggrin: ( this means that I may still buy some items myself ).

[Paladin Latham]

Initiative [roll0]

Very well then. I buy a potion of Invisibility. That is all.

[Paladin Latham]

Bloatsack the Vile round 1:

For Refs:
Bloatsack starts in Y13 with his crossbow in one hand and his potion of invisibility in the other. He drinks the potion, drops the bottle, and takes a move action to V13.
Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: V13
Current Buffs: Potion of Invisibility 1/30


your turn.

[kme]

I buy a scroll of blindsight

spells prepared and starting information:spells: Fell Drain*Sonic Snap(using metamagic school focus ) and Sunstroke
scroll of invisibility in one hand and blindsight in other
starts in B13

Bob: round 1

for refs:standard action: use the scroll of [roll0]
move action: move from B13 to E13

stats:position: B13
HP: 7/7 normal
AC: 12 (2 dex )
Saves: F +3; R+2; W+4
Misc:scroll of blindsight in one hand
Buffs: invisibility: lasts until beginning of round 31 end of turn

[Paladin Latham]

Bloatsack the Vile round 2:

For Refs:
Bloatsack moves to R13 and readies an action to shoot Bob if he shows himself.
Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: V13
Current Buffs: Potion of Invisibility 2/30

Your turn.

[kme]

Bob: round 2

for refs: move action: draw a scroll of expeditious retreat
standard: use the scroll of [roll0] stats:position: B13
HP: 7/7 normal
AC: 12 (2 dex )
Saves: F +3; R+2; W+4
Misc:scroll of expeditious retreat in one hand and blindsight in other
Buffs:
invisibility: lasts until beginning of round 31 end of turn

[kme]

for refs: ts ts ts [roll0] end of turn

[Bigmac]

Bob
No Los

Bloatsack
No Los

Bloatsack is up

[Paladin Latham]

Bloatsack the Vile round 3:

For Refs:
Bloatsack moves to L13 and readies an action to shoot Bob if he sees him.
Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: L13
Current Buffs: Potion of Invisibility 3/30

Your turn.

[kme]

Bob: round 3

for refs:standard action:again try to use the scroll of [roll0]
move action: if LOS is not established after casting blindsight, then draw the scroll of silent image stats:position: B13
HP: 7/7 normal
AC: 12 (2 dex )
Saves: F +3; R+2; W+4
Misc:scroll of expeditious retreat in one hand
Buffs:
invisibility: lasts until beginning of round 31
blindsight: lasts until beginning of round 33 end of turn

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

A question for Kme

What is the range of the Blindsight spell?


I need the answer before I can render an LoS check.

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

Woah! Hold our horses here for a minute.

@Kme and other refs

Blindsight is a third level cleric/druid spell as per the spell compendium (the latest resource with it). It is also third level, and as such costs 375gp which you did not pay for.

We need this corrected before we can move on.

[kme]

for refs:uh, I did not know that it exist in spell compendium (I checked only sorc/wizard list :smallsmile: ). I used a version from FR Underdark and there it is a second level wiz/sorc/druid and third level cleric spell. I do not have enough money left to cover the whole price for easy fix, so I leave you refs to decide.

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

@kme

The most accurate source is the most recent source. I don't have the time to do it right now, but check the publishing date on each of those books. Whichever came later is the correct source, as neither are "primary".

I'm willing to bet it is spell compendium though, which would mean no Wizard version, especially not 2nd level.

[kme]

for refs: Yes, spell compendium is a newer source. So what should I do.

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

@kme

Sadly you have already used 2 actions with it, so it seems we have 3 options, all which require Paladin's approval as well.

1. You find another 2nd level scroll that you would have used in place of blindsight and consider that one now active.

2. We merely consider the purchase null and void, go back to this last round and you take it from there.

3. We start the match completely over, your purchase is nulled, and if Paladin oks you might be able to purchase something completely different.

Those are the options as I see them. You may need a higher ref to make this happen. But feel free to communicate the option(s) you would want to do to Paladin, so we can be fair.

[kme]

Paldin Latham, it turned out that I couldn't buy a scroll of blindsight, you can read the recent posts (right after my round 3 actions, starting with Kyeudo's).

Here are the options in the quote (maybe we can agree on some other options that are not on this list if you wish)
Sadly you have already used 2 actions with it, so it seems we have 3 options, all which require Paladin's approval as well.

1. You find another 2nd level scroll that you would have used in place of blindsight and consider that one now active.

2. We merely consider the purchase null and void, go back to this last round and you take it from there.

3. We start the match completely over, your purchase is nulled, and if Paladin oks you might be able to purchase something completely different.

Those are the options as I see them. You may need a higher ref to make this happen. But feel free to communicate the option(s) you would want to do to Paladin, so we can be fair.

[Paladin Latham]

Get a new 2nd level scroll and I'm cool with it. We can keep the game going from this point if you want.

[kme]

OK, that will be a scroll of see invisibility.

Now it should be your turn.

[Paladin Latham]

Bloatsack the Vile round 4:

For Refs:
Bloatsack moves to F14. If he sees Bob he will fire (or hold his action to fire if he doesn't see him right away).

Spot [roll0]
Listen [roll1]
Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: F14
Current Buffs: Potion of Invisibility 4/30


Your turn after LoS check.

[Dragonstar]

Ref Dragonstar

Bloatsack:
No LoS

Bob, was your new scroll then considered active in place of blindsight?
If yes:
Bloatsack is in F14
If no:
No LoS

Game on!

[kme]

for refs:I think that it is, What did I see Bloatsack do on his last turn, did he just stand there?

[Dragonstar]

@KME:
Bloatsack wanders forward with his crossbow at the ready, carefully scanning the area for his target - namely you. :smallwink:

[kme]

Bob: round 4

for refs:move action: move from E13 to A13
standard action:use the scroll of expeditious retreat stats:position: A13
HP: 7/7 normal
AC: 12 (2 dex )
Saves: F +3; R+2; W+4
Misc:scroll of silent image in one hand
Buffs:
invisibility: lasts until beginning of round 31
see invisibility: lasts 30 minutes
expeditious retreat: lasts until beginning of round 14 end of turn

[Paladin Latham]

Bloatsack the Vile round 5:

For Refs:
So I can't see him? Thats not good at all. That means either A)he's in a jungle square and hiding or B) he used that scroll of Invisibility of his. So heres what I'll do. Bloatsack moves to J13 while drawing a grappling hook and, taking a deep breath, he dives in (below the surface). What would the rules be on me using a grappling hook to snag the edge of the quicksand?

Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: J13
Current Buffs: Potion of Invisibility 5/30


your turn.

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

@Paladin

You use a standard action: rope use to attach your grappling hook to the side. Your +11 is more than the DC10 required. You are now in the quicksand, below the surface and beginning to suffocate (obviously)


@kme

Your opponent moves away from you and disappears shortly after reaching the top, and you lose sight of him at I13. You saw him take a grappling hook out as he moved.


Bobthefighter is up.

[kme]

Bob: round 5

for refs:
move action: move from A13 to E13, If LOS is still not established then move to F13, than if necessary G13 and H13
I will wait for LOS check before I post other actions still my turn

[Paladin Latham]

So what are you waiting on? :smallconfused:

[kme]

I am waiting for a LOS check. It seems that Refs have forgotten us :smallbiggrin: .

[Mavian]

Ref Mav: For prompt service, please post all LoS requests in the waiting room

@Kme

You see a rope going into the quicksand at J13


@Paladin

You see sand, lots and lots of sand.

[kme]

for refs:He jumped in quicksand? Did I hear anything (loud splash or running footsteps)? Is the surface of quicksand still? Is rope tied to anything, or it is just laying there? I am sorry for asking these potentially meaningless questions, but I want to be sure that he really jumped in there :smallwink: . Not yet finished :smalltongue:

[Bigmac]

for kme
The rope is attached to a grappling hook, which is attached to the edge of the quicksand retaining wall thingy. As far as any other details, you'll probably have to use a standard action to make a spot check.

[kme]

Bob: round 5

for refs: ok I will finish my move at G13(if necessary to H13) and use a standard action to make a spot check [roll0], and also a listen check if I can (to hear a splash when/if he jumped in quicksand, or whatever that can be heard) [roll1] stats:position: G13
HP: 7/7 normal
AC: 12 (2 dex )
Saves: F +3; R+2; W+4
Misc:scroll of silent image in one hand
Buffs:
invisibility: lasts until beginning of round 31
see invisibility: lasts 30 minutes
expeditious retreat: lasts until beginning of round 14 end of turn

[Paladin Latham]

@refs:
are the walls under the sand unscalable? Or are they at the same DC for climbing as the rest of the map?

Just have a question.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo


@refs:
are the walls under the sand unscalable? Or are they at the same DC for climbing as the rest of the map?

Just have a question.

Answer:

I'd say yes to both. However, as long as you have a rope to use to brace against the wall, the DC changes to DC 5.

[Morbius]

Ref Morbius



Kyuedo and PL

I would just like to add this from the quicksand entry on the SRD

Rescue
Pulling out a character trapped in quicksand can be difficult. A rescuer needs a branch, spear haft, rope, or similar tool that enables him to reach the victim with one end of it. Then he must make a DC 15 Strength check to successfully pull the victim, and the victim must make a DC 10 Strength check to hold onto the branch, pole, or rope. If the victim fails to hold on, he must make a DC 15 Swim check immediately to stay above the surface. If both checks succeed, the victim is pulled 5 feet closer to safety.

So I think he needs a str check instead of a climb check

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

@refs

I believe that rule is to hold onto the rope while someone else is pulling on it, not actively climbing yourself. It should be a climb check imo.

[Mavian]

High Ref Mav:

Refs:

I don't really have anything to add to the discussion, but I wanted to make it seem like we're having some big meaningful High Ref Only conversation to make the players think somethings gone horribly wrong.

Also, I agree with Bronz on the rope thing.

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

@refs

That's a good idea Mav, I'll make another post here just for fun. As it is, 3/4 refs agreeing should be enough and I'll post it.


@Paladin

Climb check is fine with the rope.

[Paladin Latham]

@refs:
I was confused about Kyeudo's last post so I sent a PM;

Re: Sambusi map
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin Latham
When you said yes to both questions did you mean the walls under the sand are unscaleable without a rope or that they have the same DC as the rest of the walls on the map? I intend to ditch the rope if I can find purchase and move (very slowly) around the inside of the sand pit.

(his response was:)

I thought you asked if the walls were scalable. Sorry.

You could very well do that.

In that light:

Bloatsack the Vile round 6:

For Refs:
Bloatsack lets go of the rope and moves very slowly along the wall to J12 (if I make the climb checks, otherwise I'm in the same spot).

Climb [roll0] vs. DC15
Climb [roll1] vs. DC15

I'm running on the logic that my movement is hampered despite me moving slowly. And maybe getting outside his spell range when our invisibility runs out.

Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: J12
Current Buffs: Potion of Invisibility 6/30, holding breath 2/20


your turn unless Kyeudo himself overrules me.

[kme]

for refs:Do I see/hear anything? What about my last action?

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

@kme

No LoS or sound.


@refs

As Bloatsack is already under the quicksand, climbing the wall (not splashing around for dear life), I would put the listen check to hear movement underneath the sand at DC20.

[Bigmac]

for kme

You do notice, however, that the surface of the quicksand around the rope does seem to be disturbed as compared to the rest of the quicksand in the arena

[kme]

Bob: round 6

for refs:five foot step from G13 to H13
move action: I take the grappling hook and throw it in quick sand (assuming that I can do that from H13), and I try to do that as safely as possible. It would be best if I can simply kick it quickly.
If I cannot reach it from H13, then I will draw one of my clubs.
standard action: ready an action to cast fell drain sonic snap on Bloatsack as soon as I see him. stats:position: H13
HP: 7/7 normal
AC: 12 (2 dex )
Saves: F +3; R+2; W+4
Misc:scroll of silent image in one hand (and possibly club in other)
Buffs:
invisibility: lasts until beginning of round 31
see invisibility: lasts 30 minutes
expeditious retreat: lasts until beginning of round 14 end of turn

[Paladin Latham]

Bloatsack the Vile round 7:

for refs:
Bloatsack continues to climb under the sand to J11.

Climb [roll0] vs. dc15
Climb [roll1] vs. dc15
Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: J11 (under the sand on the wall)
Current Buffs: Potion of Invisibility 7/30, holding breath 3/20


Heh. Your turn.

[Bigmac]

For Bloatsack
No Los, heh

For Bob
You kick the hook into the sand. No sight of Bloatsack

Bob's up.

[kme]

Bob: round 7

for refs:five foot step from H13 to G13
move action: lean over the edge of the cliff and scan cliff sides for Bloatsack (as shown on image) [roll0] [roll1]
standard action: ready an action to cast fell drain sonic snap on Bloatsack as soon as I see him, if he is within 25 ft.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4853/actionsmm4.jpg stats:position: G13
HP: 7/7 normal
AC: 12 (2 dex )
Saves: F +3; R+2; W+4
Misc:scroll of silent image in one hand (and possibly club in other)
Buffs:
invisibility: lasts until beginning of round 31
see invisibility: lasts 30 minutes
expeditious retreat: lasts until beginning of round 14 end of turn

[Mavian]

@kme

Cool image, but you don't see anything.

[Paladin Latham]

Bloatsack the Vile round 8-23:

For the next 15 rounds Bloatsack will be doing things in a place that I don't know if you want to follow. unless you take an action that somehow affects me you can take your next 15 rounds worth of actions now. Invisibility doesn't last forever. :smallamused:

For Refs:
Bloatsack will spend the next 15 rounds attempting to reach Q5. I'm going to roll a LOT of Climb checks. If I miss any it will affect where I end up (which I will edit in later). If I reach that point before 15 rounds is done, I will simply wait there until round 23. I intend to keep 30ft from him (hopefully) and wait out his invisibility.

Climb1 [roll0] (all against dc15)
Climb1 [roll1]
Climb2 [roll2]
Climb2 [roll3]
Climb3 [roll4]
Climb3 [roll5]
Climb4 [roll6]
Climb4 [roll7]
Climb5 [roll8]
Climb5 [roll9]
Climb6 [roll10]
Climb6 [roll11]
Climb7 [roll12]
Climb7 [roll13]
Climb8 [roll14]
Climb8 [roll15]
Climb9 [roll16]
Climb9 [roll17]
Climb10 [roll18]
Climb10 [roll19]
Climb11 [roll20]
Climb11 [roll21]
Climb12 [roll22]
Climb12 [roll23]
Climb13 [roll24]
Climb13 [roll25]
Climb14 [roll26]
Climb14 [roll27]
Climb15 [roll28]
Climb15 [roll29]

Edit: Looks like I only made it to O5. There is where we will pick it up.
Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: O5 (under the sand on the wall)
Current Buffs: Potion of Invisibility 22/30, holding breath 18/20

[kme]

Bob: rounds 8-23

for refs:round 8
five foot step from G13 to G14
move action: lean over the edge of the cliff and scan cliff sides for Bloatsack (as in previous round, just on other side)[roll0] [roll1]
standard action: ready an action to cast fell drain sonic snap on Bloatsack as soon as I see him, if he is within 25 ft.

round 9
move to I10 (passive [roll2] and [roll3] if applicable)
standard action: ready an action to cast fell drain sonic snap on Bloatsack as soon as I see him, if he is within 25 ft.

rounds 10
passive [roll4] and [roll5]
move action: active [roll6] and [roll7] :smallamused: (looking for any anomalies on the surface of quicksand)
standard:ready an action to cast fell drain sonic snap on Bloatsack as soon as I see him, if he is within 25 ft.

rounds 11-23 are same as round 10

here are the checks:

round 11
passive [roll8] and [roll9]
active [roll10] and [roll11]
round 12
passive [roll12] and [roll13]
active [roll14] and [roll15]
round 13
passive [roll16] and [roll17]
active [roll18] and [roll19]
round 14
passive [roll20] and [roll21]
active [roll22] and [roll23]
round 15
passive [roll24] and [roll25]
active [roll26] and [roll27]
round 16
passive [roll28] and [roll29]
active [roll30] and [roll31]
round 17
passive [roll32] and [roll33]
active [roll34] and [roll35]
round 18
passive [roll36] and [roll37]
active [roll38] and [roll39]
round 19
passive [roll40] and [roll41]
active [roll42] and [roll43]
round 20
passive [roll44] and [roll45]
active [roll46] and [roll47]
round 21
passive [roll48] and [roll49]
active [roll50] and [roll51]
round 22
passive [roll52] and [roll53]
active [roll54] and [roll55]
round 23
passive [roll56] and [roll57]
active [roll58] and [roll59]

If I see something interesting I may change some actions
stats:position: I10
HP: 7/7 normal
AC: 12 (2 dex )
Saves: F +3; R+2; W+4
Misc:scroll of silent image in one hand
Buffs:
invisibility: lasts until beginning of round 31
see invisibility: lasts 30 minutes
expeditious retreat: lasts until beginning of round 14
Air in lungs doesn't last forever. :smalltongue:
And don't forget:

From SRD:
Effects of Quicksand

Characters in quicksand must make a DC 10 Swim check every round to simply tread water in place, or a DC 15 Swim check to move 5 feet in whatever direction is desired. If a trapped character fails this check by 5 or more, he sinks below the surface and begins to drown whenever he can no longer hold his breath (see the Swim skill description).

Characters below the surface of a bog may swim back to the surface with a successful Swim check (DC 15, +1 per consecutive round of being under the surface). (if you are not in quicksand, this will sound funny :smallbiggrin: )

End of turns

[Seribro]

@Paladin Latham
Was your last climb check an attempt to scale the dirt and crawl back out of the quicksand? Odd... no rules in the DMG about climbing dirt... I wonder why that would be... could it simply be to loose to climb? Well I aint no dirt-expert so I aint going to say its impossible either.
You do however require to stick your head out of the quicksand to see if you can establish a LoS. Do you raise your head out of the quicksand to look around? (this aint just water remember, your eyes would be filled with sand if you tried to watch up while still beneath the surface)

[Paladin Latham]

@seribro/refs:
I'm climbing the wall under the sand. I've been treating it as difficult to move through (with a lot of climb check to get anywhere) The LoS check was actually to see whether anything we did in the last 15 rounds overlapped. I'm still under the sand, holding my breath, with another 2 rounds until I start to suffocate.

[Seribro]

in that case, no LoS established in the past 15 rounds by either combatant. Palathams turn.

[Paladin Latham]

Bloatsack the Vile round 24:

Heh, Palatham.

For Refs:
O.K. its time for some trickery. Bloatsack will Climb to the surface and poke his head out whilst Hiding and Moving Silently, then take a breath, and then Climb back under the Sand (two move actions). Hopefully I can pull this off (because I have cover) or else he has the chance to see me and end it all (if he's within 30ft.). I'll also make a passive spot and listen (though I don't think I'll find anything for another 10 rounds or so...

Hide [roll0] (he almost certainly drank his potion of See Invisibility)
Move Silently [roll1]
Climb1 [roll2] vs. dc15 (then breath)
Climb2 [roll3] vs. dc15 (back under)
Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: O5 (under the sand on the wall)
Current Buffs: Potion of Invisibility 23/30, holding breath 1/20


Your turn after a LoS check.

[Paladin Latham]

Oops. Forgot some rolls:
Spot 1d20+
Listen [roll0]

[Paladin Latham]

Dammit! Stupid script error!:
[roll0]

[Seribro]

@Paladin Latham
no LoS, nor do you hear anything notable or even anything non-notable. Perhaps there be sand in your ears, but you have the feeling it might just be because your opponent isn't exactly doing much... or at least nothing noisy...

@kme
please roll a spot

[kme]

for refs [roll0] come on dice roller!

[Bigmac]

Bob

Despite Bloatsack's attempt to hide you can see that he comes up out of the quicksand at O5 (since the sand is clinging to him and there is no cover betwwen I10 and O5,). This doesn't trigger your readied action since he's too far away. He takes a breath and goes under the quicksand once again.


Bob's turn.

[kme]

Bob: round 24

for refs: move action:move from I10 to I4 (i4 not 14 :smallsmile: )
standard action: ready an action to cast fell drain sonic snap on Bloatsack as soon as I see him, if he is within 25 ft. stats:position: I4
HP: 7/7 normal
AC: 12 (2 dex )
Saves: F +3; R+2; W+4
Misc:scroll of silent image in one hand
Buffs:
invisibility: lasts until beginning of round 31
see invisibility: lasts 30 minutes
expeditious retreat: lasts until beginning of round 14 end of turn

[Paladin Latham]

Bloatsack the Vile rounds 25-35:

Well, with that done, I spend the next 10 rounds doing stuff and waiting. I'm pretty spooky.

For Refs:
I spend the next few rounds trying to reach Q5. If I reach it I will just wait there under the surface until round 35 in order to outlast his invisibility.

Climb [roll0] vs. dc15
Climb [roll1]
Climb [roll2]
Climb [roll3]
Climb [roll4]
Climb [roll5]
Climb [roll6]
Climb [roll7]
Climb [roll8]
Climb [roll9]
Climb [roll10]
Climb [roll11]
Climb [roll12]
Climb [roll13]
Climb [roll14]
Climb [roll15]
Climb [roll16]
Climb [roll17]
Climb [roll18]
Climb [roll19]

Hopefully I can travel 10ft. in the next 10 rounds. :smallamused:

Edit: I totally do! :smallbiggrin:
Stats:

Vital Statistics:
HP: 10
AC: 17, Touch: 15, FF: 12
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0
Current Location: Q5 (under the sand on the wall)
Current Buffs: holding breath 11/20

[kme]

question for refs: Can he shoot while he is in quicksand? If he can, is it with penalty ? I assume that he can move under the surface with DC15 swim check, but is this check a move or full round action? How can he even get out, how many actions would it take?

[Morbius]

High Ref Morbius

Hold on just a minute...

to other refs

Hum... there is some odd things here.

Bloatsack needs both climb checks to succed to move 5 feet right? If that hapenned only 8 times during his 8-23 rounds, and I am assuming he can only climb the edge of the quicksand pit and since there are 11 squares between J11 and O5 how can he end his move there?

Second what is the DC for Bobthefighter to detect his movement? I remember another refs saying it should be a DC 20 for listen or spot (or maybe both) if it was that then Bobthefighter should have been able to follow bloatsack (at least fort a while) and maybe his ready acton should have happened.

Or I am wrong again?

[Maurkov]

Ref Maurkov

@refs, kmeI'm a little late coming to this party, but in rounds 1 and 2, did Bob read a scroll of invisibility and then read a scroll of see invisibility? Isn't it hard to read an invisible scroll?

[Dragonstar]

Ref Dragonstar:

@refs:I'm just going to make things worse. If he's under the quicksand, he can't see. Don't we need to have him operating as blind?

SRD: The character cannot see. He takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.

Also SRD: Effects of Quicksand

Characters in quicksand must make a DC 10 Swim check every round to simply tread water in place, or a DC 15 Swim check to move 5 feet in whatever direction is desired. If a trapped character fails this check by 5 or more, he sinks below the surface and begins to drown whenever he can no longer hold his breath (see the Swim skill description).

Characters below the surface of a bog may swim back to the surface with a successful Swim check (DC 15, +1 per consecutive round of being under the surface).

I can understand allowing to climb when he has the rope, but attempting to climb the surface itself... with the applied -4 to climb from being blinded he's failed by more than 5 at least once and should have "fallen". At least at that point, it should have switched to a swim check, which is at the same -4 penalty, plus double armor check penalty.

It's a complete mess.

[kme]

for refs: [
Ref Maurkov
@refs, kme:
I'm a little late coming to this party, but in rounds 1 and 2, did Bob read a scroll of invisibility and then read a scroll of see invisibility? Isn't it hard to read an invisible scroll?

Yes, you are right. The fact that my equipment also becomes invisible never occurred to me.
What about other items? Material components (could you use them/choose correctly), potions would become invisible too. Heck even walking would be harder.
Maybe for some mysterious and magical reason I am not invisible to myself. I can only hope :smallfrown:

Anyway, what now. I have been planning to use other scrolls too, but eh.

[Maurkov]

Ref Maurkov

@kme, refs
Yes, you are right. The fact that my equipment also becomes invisible never occurred to me. What about other items? Material components (could you use them/choose correctly), potions would become invisible too. Heck even walking would be harder. Maybe for some mysterious and magical reason I am not invisible to myself. I can only hope

Anyway, what now. I have been planning to use other scrolls too, but eh.I don't think you received undue advantage from it, but let me check with the other refs. As for using more, you'll need to figure that out.

@refsNormally we'd give Paladin Latham a chance to roll back to the illegal action, but I don't think he should be allowed to un-dive into quicksand. His action wasn't contingent on knowing Bob's see invisibility was active. Opinions?

[Paladin Latham]

*whistles*

So. Whats up?

[kme]

I believe we have to wait for opinions of other refs.

[Bigmac]

@ refs, kme
It has been ruled before (can't find the match at the moment) that you can't use scrolls while invisiable. The invisible description clearly states that you can't see the scroll. To use it, you'll have to drop it (so that it becomes visable) and then pick it up or read it off the ground or something. See Elethomiel vs Taleron for an example of how it was used.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

To other Refs:

If I understand what's going on right, Bloatsack missed a Climb check a while ago and so would have needed to make Swim checks, but this wasn't caught at the time.
Meanwhile, Bobthefighter read a spell from an invisible scroll, which he shouldn't have been able to do, but this wasn't caught at the time.
When did these happen? Did anything else go wrong?

[Morbius]

GM Kyeudo

To other Refs:

If I understand what's going on right, Bloatsack missed a Climb check a while ago and so would have needed to make Swim checks, but this wasn't caught at the time.
Meanwhile, Bobthefighter read a spell from an invisible scroll, which he shouldn't have been able to do, but this wasn't caught at the time.
When did these happen? Did anything else go wrong?


Ref Morbius

to other refs
I also have a doubt, what is the DC for Bobthefighter to notice Bloatsack moving underwater?

[Maurkov]

@refs
@ refs, kme
It has been ruled before (can't find the match at the moment) that you can't use scrolls while invisiable. The invisible description clearly states that you can't see the scroll. To use it, you'll have to drop it (so that it becomes visable) and then pick it up or read it off the ground or something. See Elethomiel vs Taleron for an example of how it was used.
I don't like the idea of giving play advice to a gladiator. It's not fair to the opponent. kme was perfectly able to figure out the tactic by reading the SRD or by researching other matches, and if he didn't, Paladin Latham should have an advantage thereby.

[Bigmac]

@maurkov

I was refering to the match not so much for the tactic, but rather to show that there was precedent for scrolls being invisiable and how the mechanics were handled. I do try not to give advice / strategy to gladiators.

[kme]

for refs:
@ refs, kme
It has been ruled before (can't find the match at the moment) that you can't use scrolls while invisiable. The invisible description clearly states that you can't see the scroll. To use it, you'll have to drop it (so that it becomes visable) and then pick it up or read it off the ground or something. See Elethomiel vs Taleron for an example of how it was used.
ok from now on I will use scrolls in that manner.

What about questions that I asked after my last round?

[Paladin Latham]

I swear... If you guys are just talking about cheeseburgers to make me nervous... :smallfurious:

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

to other refs

The DC to see someone moving under quicksand? Unless he's right under the surface, I'd say it was impossible. On the surface, I'd give him a decent circumstance bonus to his Hide check.

Where these breaks with the rules made towards the start of the match, or where they a more recent occurance. I'd rather not analyze every post in this match.

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper
@refs
Not that my opinion matters, being an initiate ref, but I agree about the seeing into quicksand. It'd be impossible since quicksand is more sand than water. If the character were right at the surface, I'd count it the same as being invisible. But under the quicksand; even if the character were moving under the surface, I'd say because of the high viscosity of the quicksand, it wouldn't make waves and the spot DC would be epic. Just my 2cp.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Alright, I'm tired of trying to get straight answers from the other refs.

According to the other refs, Bobthefighter read a spell from an invisible scroll, an act established as impossible in a previous match.

Also according to the other refs, Bloatsack the Vile failed a climb check somewhere and so would have needed to make a Swim check to keep from sinking.

However, no one will tell me where in this match these happened, and I haven't been able to find where they happened myself. The other refs won't tell me where they happened, dispite my asking.

So, I'm going to ask you players what you want to happen. Rematch? Rewind back to when the earliest mistake occured (provided that we can determine when that was)? Ignore the problems?

[Paladin Latham]

To be honest, if Bloatsack failed a climb check he's doomed. I will accept a watery defeat. If he couldn't see invisibility then I would just have ran around until he finally got me. There. Round 14 over with, argument ended. I'll take my silver medal please.

[kme]

I don't know about climb check, but I would be fine with a rematch or rewind if Paladin Latham wishes it. Or maybe we can share the prize :smalltongue: .

[Bronz]

I'm sorry I just haven't gotten back here. The scroll was read way back in round 2 I think, and Bloatsack is being deemed to miss a climbcheck the second round he was in the quicksand because of the blindness effect the quicksand gives out. He rolled a 14, missed by 5 (DC15) so then falls.

[Paladin Latham]

Thus my above post. I lost fair and square taking a gamble, no different than if he actually sonic snapped me or heat deathed me or whatever.

[Bronz]

Thus my above post. I lost fair and square taking a gamble, no different than if he actually sonic snapped me or heat deathed me or whatever.

High Ref Bronz

Then Bobthefighter is declared the winner of Round 14 and gets all prizes owed.
Bloatsack receives 300gp for second place.

[kme]

OK. So only one question is left to be answered. When do we get medals :smalltongue: .

[Paladin Latham]

Whenever The_Chili_God returns. He just sort of pops in at random. He's very mysterious.