Arena Tournament, Round 24: Kalder vs Reave

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 24: Kaldar vs. Reave

Map:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/Kyeudo/GlassArena.jpg


XP Award: 600 XP
GP Award: 600 GP

All Combatants, please roll initiative.

[Bigmac]

[roll0] I may buy something if Reave does.

[Mavian]

Reave rarely, if ever, buys stuff for matches.

Initiative = [roll0]

[Bigmac]

After looking at Reave's sheet again, I think I'll buy a scroll of Bull's Strength. Kaldar starts in A13 with a scroll in his hands and his tower shield loosed so that he acn use both hands. He casts a spell from the scrolll, drops it and then moves to A5 while readying the tower shield.

Stats

Kaldar will also activate Travel Devotion as a swift action.

HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 1/30, Travel Devotion 1/10
Location: A5

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Starting in Y14 with my Greatsword drawn

Move Action:
Move to O14

Standard Action:
Ready an Action

End of Turn

Stats:

HP: 19
AC: 16
Speed: 50
Rage: 1 day
Shifting: 1 day
Ready an Action to Move if Kalder casts a spell and then moves.

[Bigmac]

Kaldar casts a spell and moves to D11.

Stats:

Casting Guidance, movemet this round is Kaldar's normal move action, Travel Devotion not used.

HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 2/30, Travel Devotion 2/10, Guidance 1/10
Location: D11

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)


Edit: Fixed an error in the stat block.

[Mavian]

Reave - Round 2

Move Action - None

Standard Action - Ready an Action

Action for Refs:

Readied Action: Ready an action to move if Kalder both moves and casts a spell, in any order.
Also, choosing not to take my readied action for last round.


End of Turn:
Stats:



HP: 19
AC: 16
Speed: 50
Rage: 1 day
Shifting: 1 day

[Bigmac]

"What're you waiting for?"

Kaldar will use his tower shield for cover towards the south part of the arena and move to L15 D24. He also draws a javelin while he moves.

Stats:

Standard move and Travel Devotion used to move to L15.

HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 2/30, Travel Devotion 2/10, Guidance 1/10
Location: D24

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Harkening back to the great Tower Shield debate of Waiting Room 3, I must ask you what direction your claiming cover from with your shield. [1] (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3425286&postcount=417)

[Bigmac]

gah! I completely forgot about that rule. Suppose it's too late for me to redo my turn?

[Mavian]

Considering I barely recalled and had to google it, I have no problem if you want to rethink your turn.

[Bigmac]

Ok, Kaldar moves to D24 and blocks off the side that connects to E24 with his tower shield. Everything else should remain the same. I'll go back and edit my other post to reflect this change, but that's why it is edited.

[Mavian]

Reave - Round 2

Move to M13 and ready an action.

End of Turn:


HP: 19
AC: 16
Speed: 50
Rage: 1 day
Shifting: 1 day
Ready an Action to Move if Kalder moves more than 40 feet, or if he gains LoE

[Bigmac]

Kalser moves to I13 and readies an action

stats:

Standard move and Travel Devotion used to move to I15.

Ready action to cast command if reave moves

HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 4/30, Travel Devotion 4/10, Guidance 3/10, ready action
Location: I13

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Free Action:
Rage and Shift

Full Round Action:
Charge attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

End of Turn

Stats:

Hp: 24
Ac: 12
Rage: 1/8
Shift: 1/13

[Mavian]

Confirmation Roll: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

[Bigmac]

As you start to move, Kaldar casts a spell, and you will need to make a will save DC14. If you fail, Kaldar successfully commands you to halt and you take no more actions for 1 round. If you succede then you hit me for 11 damage.

[Mavian]

Will Save - [roll0]

[Bigmac]

So, you halt just as you start to move and you lose your actions for this round.

At the beginning of the next round, Kaldar will cast Rhino's Rush as a swift action and then he will charge you.

[roll0] (+1BAB, +6STR, +2Charge, +1Guidance) Edit: forgot -2 from tower shield so my attack should only be a 16
[roll1] (2d6+9 doubled from rhino's rush)

stats

HP 14
AC 19
Effects: Bull's Strength 5/30, Travel Devotion 5/10, Guidance 2/10
Location: L13

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

@BM

What book is Rhino's Rush in?

[Bigmac]

@ Bronz
Spell Compendium, pg. 176. Part of the Wrath Domain. If your worried about the somantic component part, Kaldar would drop his javelin as a free action to have a free hand to cast the spell.

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

@BM
Actually I just did not know the spell and needed to know what it did.



Kaldar is declared the winner and gains all prizes promised!

[Mavian]

Um, wouldn't you also take a -4 proficiency for wielding a javelin as you never changed weapons, which also makes your damage wrong.

[Bigmac]

Kaldar would have actually had to drop the javelin as a free action in order to cast the spell since it had somatic components. The damage delt is for the gore attack which is 2d6+1.5*str on a charge.

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

We have a question of explicit vs. implicit here. Before Kaldar could have cast command as a readied action, he would have had to drop his javelin during his turn. The charge attack is irrelevant as the horns are used, not the javelin, and it would not matter if it was held or not.

However the maneuver was set up using the spell, which was a turning point in this match.

Precedent would say that explicit wins out and we have to turn back the clock, however a ruling by Jacob or Kyeudo might be in order here simply because the opponents are both high refs or higher.

[Bigmac]

Command only has a verbal component. That's why I readied it instead of cause fear.

[Bronz]

Good point. So I guess it's just a case of the somantic for Rhino's rush and if implicit (even mentioning it after the fact) overrules explicit. As you couldn't have cast the spell without dropping the javelin, I'm in favor of implicit, however precedent does state that whatever you put down is what happens (I'm victim of this as much as anyone).

I'd still like a higher ref than I to double check the ruling.

[Bigmac]

Even if we have to rewind the match, it goes back to where Kaldar casts the spell, so then he would drop the javelin and make the same attack. Generally, if nothing significant has changed about a sitution the player keeps the rolls (good or bad) and then the match continues.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Bigmac is correct on our typical policy for rerolls, so whether we rewind or not doesn't seem to matter. Mavian is dead either way. If it actualy mattered, I would let Mavian decide if he wanted to let it slide or enforce it strictly.

As things are, I'll uphold the victory for Kaldar, unless there is something someone else wants to add, or something I forgot.

[Mavian]

I'm not asking for a rewind of any sort. I'm asking that his action be taken as posted, which means that his spell doesn't go off.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo


I'm not asking for a rewind of any sort. I'm asking that his action be taken as posted, which means that his spell doesn't go off.

I'm confused at what you are asking. Are you saying that when we go back to Kaldar's turn, where he took the invalid action, he should be forced to keep the javalin in hand?

[Mavian]

I'm saying that he attempted to cast a spell with the javelin in hand, which means that the spell would fizzle, which is not actually an illegal action, the rest of his actions are also completely, which means that he would charge, and I would get hit, but that he would not have the damage increase the spell represents.

[Bigmac]

I think it's pretty clear that I ment to drop the javelin. A spell caster would drop the javelin when he tried to cast the spell. If it came down to trying to make the gestures and the javelin getting in the way, why whould he NOT drop it.

Still, even if it's upheld that he doesn't drop the javelin, then we would still need to rewind. Reason being is that I would have new information that I didn't before, mainly that the spell didn't work (which he would obviously know).

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

According to the SRD, you can't cast a spell without providing the components. A spell cannot fizzle because you couldn't provide a component you thought you could, you just can't cast the spell.

Rewinding to before the invalid action still doesn't change the course of events, unless you have some sort of reason why he should be forced to not drop the javalin.

[Mavian]

How about the spell failure rules.


Spell Failure

If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted


The components are a part of the characteristics of the spell. Failing to provide the proper somatic component causes the spell to fail and be wasted.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

10 points to Mavian for proving the head ref wrong.

The spell casting fails, so the rewind is just to right after the casting fails, because at that point Kaldar doesn't have the gore attack granted by the spell. Play continues from there.

Looks like Reave just got his bacon saved by a technicality. :smallwink:

[Bigmac]

If you can't beat 'em, rules lawyer your way out on a technicality eh?

Kaldar will curse and double move to D26

Stats:

HP 14
AC 19
Effects: Bull's Strength 6/30, Travel Devotion 6/10, Guidance 5/10
Location: D26

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

An encyclopedic knowledge of the rules has to be good for something.

Did you still do your charge, or did you move instead?

[Bigmac]

He decided not to charge.


Kaldar will curse and double move to D26

[Mavian]

Reave.

Move Action: Move to F20

Standard Action: Ready an Action
Ready an action to move if Kalder casts a spell

Stats:

Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 2/8
Shift: 2/13

[Bigmac]

Kaldar moves to N24 and readies an action.

Stats:


Ready an action to attack with the javelin if Reave is within 20ft and doesn't have any cover

HP 14
AC 19
Effects: Bull's Strength 7/30, Travel Devotion 7/10, Guidance 6/10, Ready Action
Location: N24

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Reave

Double move to M24, going north around the wall.

End Turn


Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 3/8
Shift: 3/13

[Bigmac]

When you get to K24, Kaldar's ready action triggers and he throws his javelin at you.

[roll0]
[roll1]

[Bigmac]

Kaldar withdraws to X18 as a full round action, and then uses a swift action to move to X10. He will draw another javelin as he moves.

Stats:

HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 8/30, Travel Devotion 8/10

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Reave

Double move to W10

End of Turn:

Stats:

Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 4/8
Shift: 4/13

[Bigmac]

Kaldar will withdraw again this time from X10 to Z8 to Z3 and then up to R3 as a full round action and then he will use a swift action to move to N3.

End of Turn

Stats:

HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 9/30, Travel Devotion 9/10

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Reave

Double move to O3

End of Turn:

Stats:

Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 4/8
Shift: 4/13

[Bigmac]

Kaldar withdraws (first to M4) and then continues on to M16. He them uses a swift action to move to M24.


End of Turn

Stats:

HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 10/30, Travel Devotion 10/10

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Double Move to N23, going south around the center walls

End of Turn

Stats:

Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 5/8
Shift: 5/13

[Bigmac]

Withdraw through L23 and continue to F13.

Stats:

will add later
Edit: Added in.
HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 11/30

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)


Edit: Fixed stat block.

[Mavian]

Reave:

Double Move to F14

End of Turn

Stats:

Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 7/8
Shift: 7/13

[Bigmac]

Withdraw through G12 and continue to M3.

Stats:

HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 12/30

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Double move to N3

Stats:

Hp: 24
Ac: 14
Rage: 8/8
Shift: 8/13

[Bigmac]

Withdraw through L4 and continue to M16. Kaldar will loose his tower shield as he moves.

Stats:

HP 14
AC 17
Effects: Bull's Strength 13/30

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

I am of the understanding loosing a shield is not the same as drawing a weapon (or equivalent). I do not believe you can do that without spending the required move action to solely loose the shield.

[Bigmac]

Ever since THE RULING, I've decided to double check every action that I'm taking.

From the SRD


Ready or Loose a Shield
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can ready or loose a shield as a free action combined with a regular move.

Dropping a carried (but not worn) shield is a free action.


q.e.d.

[Bronz]

I stand corrected. I should have double checked myself.

[Mavian]

I'm going to stay in N3

Standard Action:

Ready an Action to move if Kalder gets within 40 feet.


End of Turn:

Stats:

Hp: 24
Ac: 15
Shift: 9/13
Status: Fatigued

[Bigmac]

Kaldar 5ft steps to N16 while drawing a wand. He then casts a spell.

End of Turn.

Stats:

Casting true strike from the wand.

HP 14
AC 17
Effects: Bull's Strength 14/30, True Strike

Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Reave

Move to N11 and ready an action


Ready an action to move if Kalder gains LoE


End of Turn

Stats:

Hp: 19
Ac: 15
Shift: 9/13
Status: Fatigued

[Bigmac]

Kaldar moves to T14 and thorws his javelin at Reave. He then moves to X20 afterwards.

[roll0]
[roll1]

Stats:

Spending 2 turn undead attempts to reactivate travel devotion.

HP 14
AC 17
Effects: Bull's Strength 15/30, Travel Devotion 1/10
Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

When you gain LoE. I'm not sure exactly where it happens, but it would be somewhere around Q or P. My readied action goes off and I move adjacent to you.

[Bigmac]

LoE is established when I move into P14, so I'm assuming that you move into P13.

Kaldar will attack with his horns instead of the javelin.
[roll0]
[roll1]

He will then drop his wand as a free action and ready his tower shield as a move action.

End of turn

Status

HP 14
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 15/30, Travel Devotion 1/10
Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Mavian]

Um... Not that it really matter, but that would be 3 actions.. Move, Standard, and then Move again.

Although due to the rules of readying, I get no actions this turn, so its your turn again.

[Bigmac]

I moved the first part as a swift action. That's how I was origionally able to move, throw the spear, and move again.

In that case, Kaldar will attack again.

[roll0]
[roll1]

Wait a minute. I got a little over eager there.

You readied an aciton during the last part of the previous round. Kalder moved and triggered your action. That means you move up in initiative, but don't get to act anymore this round. Kaldar finishes this round by attacking you (and hitting for 8 points of damage). That's the end of the round, and you are now first to act at the beginning of the new round. So that last attack I just posted is invalid.

[Mavian]

In that case

Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Stats:

Hp: 11
Ac: 15
Shift: 10/13
Status: Fatigued

[Bigmac]

I'm not sure if that is a hit or not. I'm pretty sure that the little bit of wall that extends into the space between P13 and P14 provides cover.


When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if ANY line from your square to the target’s square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.

A line from your square to my NW corner must necessicarily go through the wall, so I should have cover, and thus have an AC of 25. You obviosly had cover from my attack too, but I think a 47 still hit.

If that IS the case and Kalder didn't get hit, then Kaldar will attack again
[roll0]
[roll1]

If that IS NOT the case, and Kaldar did get hit, then Kaldar will ready an action.

ready action to attack Reave (with the same rolls as above) and take a 5ft step away if Reave attacks Kaldar


Stats:

HP 7
AC 21
Effects: Bull's Strength 16/30, Travel Devotion 2/10
Spells:
0: Guidance, Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Command, Cause Fear, Rhino's Rush(d)

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

P13 - P14 do not have cover related to each other. That "little bit of wall" does not actually exist as it is artist freedom, and the fact that we deal in 5' cubes here in the arena.

So Kaldar readies an action.

[Mavian]

In that case, I will ready an action aswell.

Reave

Ready an Action

Ready an action to attack Kalder if a)moves, or b)attacks.

This readied action is acceptable due to the arkol rulings on readied actions and multiple triggers.

[Bigmac]

Kaldar will fight defensivly and attack Reave.

[roll0]
[roll1]

Stats:

HP 7
AC 23
Effects: Bull's Strength 17/30, Travel Devotion 3/10
Spells:
0: Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Cause Fear

[Mavian]

Your Attack triggers my attack

Attack [roll0]
Damage [roll1]

It's like a finely choreographed ballet

Stats:

Hp: 11
Ac: 15
Shift: 12/13
Status: Fatigued

[Bigmac]

yep.

Kaldar will drop his javelin as a free action, draw his morningstar as a move action and fight defesivly once again.

[roll0]
[roll1]

Stats:

HP 7
AC 23
Effects: Bull's Strength 18/30, Travel Devotion 4/10
Spells:
0: Virtue, Cure Minor Wounds x2
1: Faith Healing, Cause Fear

[Mavian]

Attack [roll0]
Damage [roll1]

Stats:

Hp: 11
Ac: 15
Shift: 12/13
Status: Fatigued

[Bigmac]

Comeon Dice!

Fighting defensivly again. Attacking with morning star.

[roll0]
[roll1]

Not going to bother with stas for now, to keep things moving.

[Mavian]

And my horns vanish, as do my extra muscles.

Attack [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Wrong damage, but I missed anyways. Also wasted a crit *sigh*

[Bigmac]

You stole my good d20 role. The next one was supposed to be MINE!

Kaldar takes a break from this action to take a 5ft step back (P15) and he casts a spell.

Faith healing, which restores 10hp to Kalder, bringing him back up to max (14)

You're up.

[Mavian]

5 foot step to P14 and start up the swinging.

Attack [roll0]
Damage [roll1]

[Bigmac]

Back to our regularly scheduled fight.

Kaldar continues to fight defensivly

[roll0]
[roll1]

[Mavian]

Thats a hit, but I'm still standing.

Attack [roll0]
Damage [roll1]

[Bigmac]

Dude is a tough hombre.

Still fighting defensivly.

[roll0]
[roll1]

[Mavian]

Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

[Bigmac]

Kalder will forgo fighting defensivly to try and finish this off faster.

[roll0]
[roll1]

[Mavian]

Attack [roll0]
Damage [roll1]

[Bigmac]

So reave gets his attack,

and then here are the next 7 rounds of attacks from Kaldar (until the Bull's strength wears off)

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]
[roll5]
[roll6]

Didn't bother to roll damage

Edit, looks like I got it on the next try. Whew. Good Match.

[Mavian]

Yep, That's game.

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz
And Kaldar is declared the victor!

And Mavian needs to get into our match and do something! Yay! :smallwink:

[Mavian]

Hah, I was doing something in that match as you posted this.

[Bronz]

It seems that way.

Though admittedly swinging away is more interesting than whatever it is that we're doing, that's for certain.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Looks like the same result from the earlier miscall. Just took an extra page and a half to be decided.