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View Full Version : Giving the Crusader class a Mount



Pauwel
2008-01-27, 09:05 AM
One of my players likes to play paladins. I've tried employing the Tome of Battle whereever I can, because I like the system and love having high-level warrior classes that are actually powerful.
The player in question likes the Crusader class, but isn't all too keen on giving up the mount feature.

What do you guys think about letting the player have the mount feature in exchange for a feat?

Animefunkmaster
2008-01-27, 09:27 AM
I would feel more comfortable with a feat that lets crusader levels stack with paladin level for mounts, lay on hands, and possibly his bonus from smite. Maybe make them two seperate feats (like the lay on hands/smite being a pre req for the mount).

There was a homebrew paladin that had smites per encounter, and played out a lot like a crusader (not talking about the 4e paladin), I will try and scare up a link.

Also, consider tweaking the Paladin Prestige class to give advanced Initiator Level, manuevers known/granted/redied at the normal progression of spell casting.

zerombr
2008-01-27, 09:34 AM
I've toyed with a crossover feat I call Devoted Zealot
prereqs: Special Mount, 2 Devoted Spirit maneuvers (or whatever)

Your Paladin levels count towards Crusader levels for purposes of your Initator level, as well as your Crusader levels counting towards Paladin for your special mount.

Animefunkmaster
2008-01-27, 09:44 AM
In case you want it: the rebalanced paladin (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045)

Rad
2008-01-27, 04:01 PM
I would rather not. A mount is another creature to keep track of (more bookkeeping) and getting a mount restrict your options a while. I'm happy with crusader as it is (would remove smite actually).

Mark Hall
2008-01-27, 04:06 PM
One of my players likes to play paladins. I've tried employing the Tome of Battle whereever I can, because I like the system and love having high-level warrior classes that are actually powerful.
The player in question likes the Crusader class, but isn't all too keen on giving up the mount feature.

What do you guys think about letting the player have the mount feature in exchange for a feat?

I don't see why not. Compare it to "Leadership", through which he could gain a cohort-mount, and a load of followers.

Triaxx
2008-01-27, 05:31 PM
If he doesn't want to give up the mount, but likes the flavor, he might like this class I homebrewed as an alternative to the Paladin:

Cavalier
Alignment: Any Lawful.
Hit Die: d10
Class Skills: The Cavalier's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int) Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st level: (2 + Int Modifier) x3
Skill Points at Each additional Level: 2 + Int Modifier


{table=head]Level|Base AttackBonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|
+1|
+1|
+0|
+0|Lay on Hands, Aura of Law 1/day
2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+0|Knightly Grace, Bonus Feat
3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Smite Foe 1/day
4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Improved Shield Bash
5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|Dodge
6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+1|
+1|Bonus Feat, Smite Foe 2/day
7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|Aura of Law 2/day
8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+2|Celestial Mount 1st-Tier
9th|
+9/+4|
+7|
+2|
+2|Smite Foe 3/day
10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+2|
+2|Bonus Feat
11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+8|
+3|
+3|
12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+3|
+3|Smite Foe 4/day
13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+9|
+3|
+3|Cleric Domain-1st, Lance Knight
14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+3|
+3|Bonus Feat, Celestial Mount 2nd-Tier, Aura of Law 3/day
15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+10|
+4|
+4|Smite Foe 5/day
16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+4|
+4|Combat Reflexes
17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+11|
+4|
+4|Cleric Domain-2nd
18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+4|
+4|Bonus Feat, Smite Foe 6/day
19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+12|
+5|
+5|Cleric Domain-3rd
20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+13|
+5|
+5|Bonus Feat, Celestial Mount 3rd-Tier[/table]

Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Cavaliers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

[b]Lay on Hands: As per the Paladin ability.

Aura of Law: Aura of Law is a Cavalier's final defense. Used when foes close in around him the Cavalier summons his knowledge of right and law, and projects a feeling of defenslessness and clumsiness against neutral and chaotic foes. Neutral foes take a -1 penalty to AC and BAB, while Chaotic Foes take a -2 penalty to AC and BAB. This effect lasts for 1 round per Cavalier level. The aura can be resisted by a (DC10 + Cavalier level + Cavalier's CHA mod) Will save. A Cavalier may use Aura of Law once per day at first level, and gains additional uses every seven levels.

Smite Foe: As per the Smite Evil ability, but only against Chaotic or Neutral Foes. A Cavalier gains one use at third level, and an additional use every three levels there after.

Knightly Grace: At 2nd level, a Cavalier has been trained to fight on horseback, and when mounted on a horse or pony gains a +2 competence bonus when attempting to control an untrained animal. When mounted on a warhorse, or warpony, the Cavalier gains a +1 bonus to mounted melee attacks.

Bonus Feat: A Cavalier is granted bonus feat in addition to those she normally receives.

Improved Shield Bash: At 4th level Cavalier is treated as having the Improved Shield Bash feat while mounted, even if he or she does not meet the requirements.

Dodge: From 5th level on, when mounted a Cavalier is treated as having the dodge feat even if he or she does not meet the requirements for it.

Cleric Domain: A Cavalier, while not necessarily a religious warrior is looked upon with favor by his or her god. At 13th level, a Cavalier may choose one of his or her gods domain's, and use the first level domain power as a Cleric of one quarter the Cavalier's level. At 17th level, the Cavalier gains the second level domain power, as a cleric of one quarter Cavalier level, and at 1th, gains a third level domain power, as a cleric one-quarter of the Cavalier's level.

Combat Reflexes: If he has not taken it at an earlier level, at 16th level, the Cavalier is treated as having Combat Reflexes.

Lance Knight: At 12th level, the Cavalier has become a master of mounted combat, and as such is able to deal double damage when charging with a Lance, Sword, or Axe and Shield. The Cavalier's BAB, and chance to hit rolls are unaffected. The Cavalier also is able to disregard the -2 AC penalty while charging mounted.

Noble Steed: At 8th Level, a Cavalier may spend 1d4 days familiarizing himself with a particular mount, and bind himself to it. In doing so, it becomes a first tier mount. At level 14, it becomes a second tier mount, and at level 20, it becomes a third tier mount. While mounted on his Noble Mount, the Cavalier gains a +1 to his Reflex and Will saves.

If the Cavalier's Noble Steed is killed, it takes a year and a day to become familiar enough with another mount to replace it. Upon the steeds death, the Cavalier loses 200xp per level, with a fort save for half. In addition, the Cavalier must make a fort save, or be treated as having one half his total ride skill until he gains another Steed. Making the fort save reduces the penalty to three-quarters his ride skill. If the Cavalier's Steed is resurrected, the penalty to his ride skill is negated.

Noble Steed
{table=head]Tier|HD|Natural [br] Armor|Str. Adj.|Special
1st|
+2|
+2|
+1|Improved Mounted Combat, DR5/Silver
2nd|
+4|
+4|
+2|Shield Mount
3rd|
+6|
+6|
+4|Mounted Archery, DR10/Silver[/table]

Talya
2008-01-27, 05:46 PM
What do you guys think about letting the player have the mount feature in exchange for a feat?

That feat already exists.

Wild Cohorts (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) make excellent mounts. It's not celestial, you can't just dismiss it to an upper plane when not using it, but it ends up being more powerful in combat.

Chronicled
2008-01-27, 05:48 PM
There's also this feat (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) off the Wizard's website:

Animal Companions for Any Character

The animal companions of druids and rangers, along with the paladin's magical mount and the familiars of arcane spellcasters, all provide interesting ways to bring animals into an adventuring party, but as interesting as these options are, they do not allow for characters of other classes to form a bond with a single animal. Many DMs allow the Leadership feat to be used to call strange and exotic creatures, many of which serve ably as mounts or guardians, but again, the idea of a lone wanderer and his trusty mount or animal companion is only partially served by the rules -- in this case the animal comes, but it comes accompanied by as many as a hundred humanoid followers. The Wild Cohort feat described below addresses many of these problems, but like the Leadership feat, it is meant as an option that DMs and players discuss together. Like the Leadership feat, the Wild Cohort feat gives the player access to another creature that can become powerful in its own right and therefore should be included in a campaign only when the DM judges it appropriate.

It would be entirely appropriate, for example, for a DM to require some story-based prerequisite to be fulfilled before allowing a character to take the Wild Cohort feat. Such a prerequisite might range for the clichéd pulling a thorn from the animal's foot to a more dramatic rescue scene where the character must win the animal's trust through a combination of the Handle Animal skill and careful roleplaying.

Wild Cohort [General]

You have a special bond with a wild animal, and it is willing to travel and adventure with you.

Benefit: You gain an animal cohort. The animal cohort is generally friendly to you and is willing to follow you and adventure with you. If given proper training, the animal cohort will willingly serve as your mount, guardian, and companion. (See the description of the Handle Animal skill on page 74 of the Player's Handbook for more details on training animals.)

You can use the Handle Animal skill on your animal cohort as a move action rather than as a standard action, and you gain a +2 bonus on all Handle Animal checks made to direct or influence your animal cohort.

Provided the DM gives her approval, at 1st level you can choose from a badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. Like a druid, you can choose more powerful animals as you increase in level. These alternative animal cohorts work like the alternative animal companions available to a druid, but they are available as cohorts later than they are available as animal companions. When selecting an alternative animal cohort, use the list of alternative animal companions on page 36 of the Player's Handbook, but treat yourself as a druid three levels lower than your character level. For example, once you reach 7th level, you can choose an animal cohort off the list of animal companions available to a 4th-level druid.

Special: Druids and rangers who take the wild cohort feat gain an animal cohort in addition to their animal companion. Although the two abilities are similar, they follow different sets of rules and must be tracked separately.

You can only ever have one wild cohort at any given time.

Like a druid's animal companion, your wild cohort improves as you gain experience. Although the animal cohort improves significantly compared to others of its kind, its abilities do not rival those of a druid's animal companion.

Character
Level Bonus
HD Natural
Armor Adj. Str/Dex
Bonus Bonus
Tricks Special
1st-2nd +0 +0 +0 0
3rd-5th +1 +1 +0 1 Evasion
6th-8th +3 +3 +1 2
9th-11th +5 +5 +2 3
12th-14th +7 +7 +3 4 Devotion
15th-17th +9 +9 +4 5
18th-20th +11 +11 +5 6 Improved evasion

Animal Companion Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion's kind, as given in the Monster Manual, but make the following changes.

Class Level: The character's class levels and racial Hit Dice.

Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal cohort's base attack and base save bonuses. An animal cohort's base attack bonus is the same as that of a cleric or rogue of a level equal to the animal's HD. An animal cohort has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal's HD). An animal cohort gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster's Hit Dice (see the Monster Manual). The number listed is the current total of extra HD over and above the base creature's total. For example, a creature that normally has 1 HD but that is a wild cohort for a 6th-level character gains an additional 3 HD for a total of 4 HD.

Natural Armor: The number noted here is an improvement to the animal cohort's existing natural armor bonus. For example, a creature that normally has a natural armor bonus of +2 but that is a wild cohort for a 6th-level character gains an additional +3 bonus for a total natural armor bonus of +5.

Str/Dex Bonus: Add this value to the base creature's Strength and Dexterity scores. For example, a creature that normally has a Strength score of 10 but that is a wild cohort for a 15th-level character gains an additional +4 for a total Strength score of 14.

Bonus Tricks: The value given in this column is the total number of "bonus" tricks that the animal knows in addition to any that the character might choose to teach it (see the Handle Animal skill, Player's Handbook page 74). These bonus tricks don't require any training time or Handle Animal checks, and they don't count against the normal limit of tricks known by the animal. The character selects these bonus tricks, and once selected, they can't be changed. For example, a wild cohort that belongs to an 11th-level character has a total of 3 bonus tricks.

Evasion (Ex): If an animal cohort is subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, it takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw.

Devotion (Ex): An animal cohort's devotion to its master is so complete that it gains a +4 morale bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells and effects.

Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, an animal cohort takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and only half damage if the saving throw fails.

Adjust and reflavor as needed.

Edit: Who knew that Talya was a ninja?

Talya
2008-01-27, 05:51 PM
Edit: Who knew that Talya was a ninja?


I'm a pirate. We're faster than ninjas.

Reel On, Love
2008-01-27, 05:52 PM
I'm a pirate. We're faster than ninjas.

Oh, you are not.

How's the scurvy workin' out for you?

Voyager_I
2008-01-27, 09:43 PM
Fool! My Pirates enjoy a diet high in the dreaded Vitamin C!

Talya
2008-01-27, 09:58 PM
Aye. There be a reason brits get called "Limeys" down to this day. There be ways to keep the scurvy out of the sailor.