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raygungothic
2008-01-30, 06:38 AM
I'm reserving judgement on 4th edition 'til we actually see it, but it's having one effect already: it's selling me a lot of books from the current edition! I only started buying books beyond the core rules a few months ago - I don't care if they become "obsolete", as I'm under no pressure to upgrade, I just want to bag everything interesting before they get hard to get hold of. I know there are a lot printed and they'll still be around second-hand, but I'm not that likely to actually bother to get things once they disappear. Already, my regular games shops are winding down their stocks in anticipation of 4th - and I'm starting to wonder what else I might pick up to finish off my accumulation of 3 & 3.5 material.

On the other hand, not everything is of interest. Some series I've decided to be completist about (MMs and the excellent environments series) and am almost there. Other things I've decided not to take up. I wanted to ask everyone's opinions of the books in the last category - things I'm undecided about. So, a few questions:

Which Completes would people recommend? I'm sure I don't want to be a completist for the "complete" series - some of them just don't seem very interesting to me - so at the moment I have only Complete Warrior and Complete Mage. I almost always DM, so I'm looking for ones that will offer interesting options without my having to ban too much of it for obvious brokenness :smallsmile:

I don't have any of the "theme enemy" series - the books about Aberrations, Undead, Dragons (is that all or are there more?). Do you think they're worth getting? How world-specific are they? (some things just don't fit homemade gameworlds - I've already rejected the Races Of... series for that very reason)

Does the Magic Item Compendium contain interesting stuff at low power levels? I'm not much of a one for handing out +5 Swords of Awesome so I fear it might just gather dust...

Are there any other sourcebooks people would particularly recommend?

Thanks everyone!

marjan
2008-01-30, 06:43 AM
SC and MIC are nice to have since you can find much spells/items that are printed in other books and they are most up-to-date of all sources. They both have spells/items for use from lvl 1-20 so you'll always find something useful. If you don't have PHBII I would suggest you get those to.

raygungothic
2008-01-30, 09:37 AM
(...took me a moment to work out the acronyms) Ah, the compendia. I have the Spell Compendium and was a bit disappointed by the higher-level bias - there's not much stuff for low levels and even less that's comparable to the useful options in the PHB. Still, if you rate the Item Compendium I shall definitely give it a look. Thanks!

PHBII's a solid supplement, I agree - already have that one.

No-one else has an opinion on the relative values of the various Completes?

Swooper
2008-01-30, 10:32 AM
The first four Completes are good and widely accepted as such - Arcane, Warrior, Adventurer and Divine. Mage, Scoundrel and Champion are a bit more controversial - A lot of people seem to like Scoundrel, and think Champion is a bit on the cheesy side. Mage's usability kind of relies on you to have Arcane already, but it's not that bad. We do not speak of the Complete Psionic.

Draconomicon is worth getting just for the pictures, and the fluff. It's the type of book you might want to read a few pages in before bed, it's crunchiness isn't much to speak of. Lords of Madness is excellent for certain campaigns (not meaning settings here), same with Libris Mortis I suppose although I am not fond of undead myself. The Fiendish Codices are nice if you like daemons and devils.

The Tome of Battle will be brought up eventually in this thread, so I might as well. It's one of my favourite supplements anyway, I highly recommend it. Tome of Magic is not as good. Expanded Psionics Handbook is excellent if you don't mind the flavour. If you like Dragons and the Warlock class from Complete Arcane, you might want to pick up Dragon Magic, and play Dragon-warlocks. Oops, I mean Dragonfire Adepts.

I think that covers a lot of them, if you have any other questions just fire away.

raygungothic
2008-01-30, 11:39 AM
Swooper, thanks! That was the sort of info I was looking for.

I had Complete Adventurer briefly and some of the prestige classes seemed horribly overpowered. Then I discovered a major binding fault and took it back to the shop and I haven't seen a copy since :-( Your advice on the Complete series is a help, though, and mostly confirms my opinions.

What you say about Draconomicon etc. sounds positive. Reading a few pages here and there for recreation is one of my major uses for RPG books - it just helps keep the ideas ticking over - so if they're good for that, I shall look into them.

I don't have ToB, maybe I ought. Your post looks pretty comprehensive to me, thanks! It's much appreciated. One question - are there any games shops in Greenwich? I can get there in my lunch hour...

Winterking
2008-01-30, 07:58 PM
The Draconomicon is a work of art, and should be purchased, if only for that reason. The diagrams of dragon-parts (eyes, wing muscles, skeletons), as well as the detailed information on each of the classic dragon varieties are very entertaining.

Complete Adventurer has a lot of interesting stuff in it; I have fewer kind things to say about many of the other Completes that you don't already have (but that's mostly because I feel they emphasize magic too much).

If you're running specific themes of campaigns, Heroes of Battle and Heroes of Horror have a lot of interesting, useful crunch, for either War or Horror based campaigns.

I also heartily recommend the "setting" books--Stormwrack, Frostburn, Sandstorm. New monsters, and lots of new mechanics, for adventures off the beaten path. Stormwrack in particular is the perfect thing for countless piratical and nautical adventures, and has simple yet well-done rules for naval combat.

Fax Celestis
2008-01-30, 08:03 PM
Three words: Magic of Incarnum. Learn it, love it, live it.

raygungothic
2008-01-31, 06:47 AM
Thanks guys.

Winterking - then maybe Complete Adventurer deserves another look :-) The settings books were what I meant when I said environment books - I really like them! Sandstorm is the only one I don't have, but I mean to just for completism.

Fax - what is Magic of Incarnum all about, then? I had a look once and it looked like it had escaped from a different game... maybe I missed the point.

SoD
2008-01-31, 08:58 AM
Sounds like you're doing the opposite of me. I'm waiting until just before/after it comes out to buy more books, hoping for discounts at my local gaming stores.

raygungothic
2008-01-31, 10:00 AM
SoD - you may have a point there.

Depends on the stores you like and frequent, though. Three of the stores I visit have already started winding down their collections and don't seem to be replacing anything but a small core - I don't think that will result in big end-of-line sales. I suspect there are already some books I've missed and will never see on shelves again.

The big nerd-goods megachain has a larger selection but I'm not particularly interested in supporting them unless they have something I really want or I'm visiting a town where there are no alternatives - maybe I'll check them for discounts when 4e comes out, but I don't think they'll reduce much, and I'd rather buy one book every few weeks from somewhere I like than save a couple of pounds all in one go later.

When 4e comes out I don't think it'll be terribly difficult to fill any gaps with used books off the net, which are often very cheap, but I probably won't bother to do that except if I suddenly discover I really *have* to have something.

Interesting thought, though - I'd love to know whether the announcement of 4th hurts or hinders sales of the existing books overall.

Drascin
2008-01-31, 10:06 AM
Well, if you want my opinion...

Imprescindibles - the books you would not want to get caught without. These are in my opinion some of the best supplements in D&D ever, so please give them a look.

-Expanded Psionics Handbook
-PHB II
-Magic Item Compendium
-Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords

Good'uns - books I've liked a lot, enjoyed very much or got a lot of mileage out of. Let's give a look at my shelf...

-Draconomicon/Libris Mortis/Lords of Madness/Fiendish Codex (depending on whether you like dragons, undead, aberrations, or fiends) are all very interesting reads and brimming with fluffy goodness.
-Monster Manuals III and V. There are some great ideas in there.
-Eberron Campaign Setting, with the Player's Guide to Eberron on the side. Best setting since Darksun. A few of the other supplements are also very good (Secrets of Sarlona springs to mind), but those two are the main stuff you need.
-The first four Completes, while boring, have also proven to be enormously useful for my players.
-Tome of Magic and Magic of Incarnum for new, cool magic systems, if a bit of the underpower side.
-Untapped Potential. But this one is 3rd party, so I'm not sure it counts.
-Sandstorm. And I haven't even had a campaign go near a desert. But it's just an interesting read all in all. Also, it's probably the best of the three environment books.

Of course, there are supplements I haven't had the chance to read, but of the ones I have, these are my recommendations.

And, with all the recommendations, I should look into getting Dragon Magic myself... :smalltongue:

Lord Tataraus
2008-01-31, 10:48 AM
My recommendations are mostly the same as others, but still:
Must haves:
Tob, CS, PHBII, CW, CAd, MIC
Really nice ones:
ToM, Draconomicon, EXP, CP, Dungeonscape, Cityscape (possibly)

Tome of Battle - arguably the best supplement printed
Complete Scoundrel - this is an amazing supplement purely for the mundane/alcheimcal items and luck feats :smallbiggrin:
Player's Handbook II - well, you already have that so you know why
Complete Warrior - lots of really good feats and options for melee types
Complete Adventurer - same as CW but for more finesse-y types such as rogues and rangers also has a very nice expanded skill uses section
Magic Item Compendium - great stuff for all power levels, some is broken but most is ok and some things are fixed
Tome of Magic - one of my favorites because the classes (ignoring Truenamer) are really neat. Binder is great to play and balanced and shadowcaster just needs a few tweaks, also has the Dark template :smalltongue:
Draconomicon - for the reasons others have said as well as for Meta Breath feats
Expanded Psionics Handbook - I love psionics!
Compete Psionics - many would disagree, but aside from a few things the book is really neat in my opinion
Dungeonscape - purely for the mundane items if nothing else, you can't go wrong with lard, flour, and rubber balls! Also has some nice stuff for creating a dungeon
Cityscape - I found it an interesting read and it has some neat content that helps with urban campaigns, but my favorite part is Mobs which effectively make any intelligent creature into a swarm!

raygungothic
2008-01-31, 11:55 AM
Drasin, Lord T, thanks for the advice. This is turning into a "Best of 3.5" thread... which is great!

I have to admit that I wouldn't touch psi with a 10' pole, even if the material is excellent. I am intrigued to hear the rave reviews of the Magic Items comp, which make it sound pretty good.

Think I'm pretty much narrowed down now...
Opponents series: Libris Mortis / Draconomicon / Lords of Madness (I have the Fiendish Codices and like them, but they're too thin! I want MORE of them!)
Crunch: MIC / Tome of Battle / Tome of Magic
Completism: Complete Scoundrel / Arcane / Adventurer.

Thanks to everyone for their advice.