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View Full Version : [Magic System Replacement] The Paradigm Project (VERY much in progress)



Lord_Gareth
2008-01-31, 04:43 PM
An angry mage on the warpath can reverse gravity, warp time, reduce elder vampires to cinders and shred minds like confetti with nothing more than a dissapproving glare...

...Their method of power doesn't seem to matter so much as their belief in that method...


I'm a mage now.

I can do anything.


A falling star crashes upon the shore
But the first of many, many more
Stoke the fire and stout bar the door
For tonight's the night that mages go to war.


In a world where clerics can raise the dead with a wave of their hand, dervishes decimate entire armies single-handedly, halfing rangers hide in plain sight in the middle of a desert with no cover and hulking hurlers weild boulders the size of Pluto, are you really going to complain that a group has the ability to open a friggin' door?

Everyone knows it. The current magic system is broken. And let's face it, by now, it's getting kind of boring. Vancian Magic is kinda lame. Sorcerers suck. So do Wu Jen, for that matter, but that's another story. You may have noticed that I quoted White Wolf up there twice. Well, while I don't want to copy their system, there's a lot of good things to say about it. It's inventive, it's inspired, and it lends of sense of, "Damn, that's awesome!" to your character.

Of course, there's no paradox in D&D. That's part of the wonderful world of fantasy.

So, I wanted to rework the arcane magic in D&D. But I cannot - and will not, and shall not, and have your families captive in case you try to make me - do this on my own. I'm a fair hand at statting things up to be balanced, and I can come up with ideas, but a lot of the time, I will need you, the community, to get my back.

Here's what I have - use one basic class "template" in a sense. At level one, you choose your Paradigm, the way that magic works for -you-. Each Paradigm approaches magic completely differently, in a (hopefully) new fashion. We may (or perhaps should) come up with new spells.

Paradigm ideas -

Bloodline - The spellcaster believes himself to be (or truly is) descended from some powerful magical being. Subparadigms include Draconic, Celestial, Infernal, Fey, and Magical.

Sacrifice - The spellcaster believes that all power comes from sacrifice and uses blood to fuel her spells. Subparadigms include Martyr, Daemon Magus, and Timebender.

Hermetic - The mage's mage - books, wands, staves, rings, glyphs, symbols, whatever. It's the classic Wizard with his fruity capes and prestidigitation. Subparadigms include Pyromancer, Abjurer, and Seer.

Channel - The spellcaster believes his or herself to be directly connected to some primal, powerful force or emotion, and draws upon its powers. Subparadigms include Elemental, Soulbender, Ethos (law/chaos/good/evil) and Ecstatic

Technomancer - Using tools to focus their magic (some might not even believe magic truly exists), technomancers take -forever- to get some spells off. However, their magics can sometimes be utilized by other people, and when it hits, it -hits-. Subparadigms include Ethernaut, Black Powder Master, Steampunk, and Madgirl/boy

More to come later - I've got some basic ideas!

Vadin
2008-01-31, 04:58 PM
From this quick overview...excellent.

Atticus Bleak
2008-01-31, 09:56 PM
Maaaaaaaan......a.......get it? Comedy aside, even more great work Gareth, i swear you never disappoint. I personally like the sacrifice, it reminds me of Black Mage...on a related note, in "Vampire: the Masquerade" there is a vampire family with the ability to use blood to cast spells....one of the other family's comments on them was "It's like someone took a bunch of D&D nerds and told them their spells were real."

Anyway, thumbs up Gareth, you've earned a fan in the Clan Bleak.

Lord_Gareth
2008-01-31, 10:27 PM
Those would be the Tremere, and they were once Mages :P

Atticus Bleak
2008-01-31, 10:32 PM
Right, sorry. I never played much but a friend of mine does and i got him the book for christmas.....first thing he said to me was "I got a mental picture of you standing in your front yard cutting yourself and wearing a cloak."

munchlord
2008-02-01, 08:14 AM
sounds cool there... like so many other things you do ;).

I have an idea to be put in somewhere apropriate, although making it balanced may be -very- hard.
These mages draw magic from the world around them, thus thinning the magic in the exact place that they draw from. This they release in various spells with a basic capability, the amount of effect depends on the amount of magic drawn to fuel it. They can also draw some magic and keep it within them for some time, in order to bring it somewhere where they can't access magic for some reason (like an anti-magic field perhaps?) or to be bale to unleash some spell quicker than they would normally have. There are of course limits to how much magic a mage can contain, and the magic deteriorates over time too.
Ongoing spells needs to be fed magic every round to remain in effect, but in return I guess long durations are a good way to balance this. The power (or level) of the mage should determine how much magic he/she can draw each turn (or maybe as actions, like bla magic as a free action, if you spend a move action powering you get this much more, and a full round will give you a real kick) as well as how much he/she can store.
When enough magic has been draw from a place, the magic there begins to wear thin meaning that mages draw less magic from the place. Drawing a place completely empty takes a wast amount of power (something akin to a lot and lots of pre-reqs epic feat or something) but in turn makes things hard for all kinds of spellcasters for a long time. The magic slowly seeps in to refill the gap though.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-01, 09:09 AM
Alright, I'm going to take a stab at this ^_^ I don't have a firm grasp of what I'm doing with the Ritual system yet, but we'll figure something out ^_^

First, some definitions -

Fastcasters create their spells on the spot - that is, they bend their mind to create an effect within certain limits. They're very DM-Player intensive, but ultimately will end up more fun as you can bend the universe to your will.

Tool-Users channel their magic through something, such as a gun or a staff. Their belief in the item fuels the spells, meaning they have a limited number of spells per day (or even per encounter) and may have other limits. However, their spells hit a lot HARDER.

Scholars memorize spells, perform rituals, and make pacts with otherworldly powers, sacrificing speed for power. The represent the midpoint between Fastcasters and Tool-Users.


Sacrificial Paradigm

"Power is sacrifice."

Sacrificial Paradigm
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Rituals Known

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+0|Subparadigm, Ritual Magic, Magical Aura, Minor Rituals|4|

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+0|Subparadigm ability|5|

3rd|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+1| |6|

4th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+1|Subparadigm ability|7|

5th|
+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|Adept Rituals|8|

6th|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+2|Subparadigm ability|9|

7th|
+3|
+6|
+2|
+2||10|

8th|
+4|
+6|
+2|
+2|Subparadigm ability|11|

9th|
+4|
+6|
+3|
+3||12|

10th|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+3|Moderate Rituals|13|

11th|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+3||14|

12th|
+6/+1|
+8|
+4|
+4|Subparadigm Ability|15|

13th|
+6/+1|
+8|
+4|
+4||16|

14th|
+7/+2|
+9|
+4|
+4|Subparadigm Ability|17|

15th|
+7/+2|
+9|
+5|
+5|Major Rituals|18|

16th|
+8/+3|
+10|
+5|
+5|Subparadigm ability|19|

17th|
+8/+3|
+10|
+5|
+5||20|

18th|
+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+6|Subparadigm ability|21|

19th|
+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+6||22|

20th|
+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+6|Supreme Ritual|23|[/table]

All power requires a sacrifice. This is the basic tenant that all Sacrificial Mages share, the belief that anything they gain must have something given up in return. No matter where they go, their magics leave behind an impression, an indelible mark in the hearts and minds - or burned onto the landscape.

A Martyr rides through the lands, healing the sick and hiding the burning pain in her limbs as her miracles consume her body. A Daemon Magus marches at the head of a zombie horde, leaving nothing but ash and sorrow in his wake as he searches for power enough to prevent an even greater disaster. A Sandman quietly goes from village to village, listening to their woes. When he leaves, he seems older than he was before, but the problems are gone as if they never were - the villagers don't even know they ever had them, because they did not.

More than even other Paradigm Mages, the Sacrificial Mage believes in something. With every grim toll extracted from them, they affirm that belief that what they are doing is right to them in some way. This iron self-assurance often leads to fanatics and zealots among their ranks, but it cannot ever be said that a Sacrificial Mage lacks for conviction.

Religion - Sacrificial Magi have no special draw to or from religion, and worship as typical members of their races do. When they do worship, they tend toward gods or goddesses of magic, or else gods or goddesses of the kind of magic they perform (such as necromancy, healing, destruction, and the like).

Other Classes - Martyrs get along well with all classes except Daemon Magi, necromancers, and evil clerics, whom they have a hard time tolerating. Conversely, Daemon Magi and Sandmen often have issues with "good" folk, even if good themselves, due to the nature of their being.

Role - Martyrs serve as healers, single-combat slayers, and limited utility casters. Daemon Magi are summoners and weilders of destruction and chaos. Sandmen make incredible detectives and assasins.

Background - All Sacrificial Magi learn their craft from someone - there is no exception. Developing the discipline on one's own takes a herculean mind, one that mortals cannot possess - they must learn it from a tome, a master, or preferably both.

Sacrifical Magi training is marked by pain, harsh lessons, and drills in ritualizing over and over again. A skilled Sacrificial Mage can draw his or her ritual circle completely blindfolded with one finger and still make it perfect. Very often, their masters' beliefs on magic become their own, making them a very rigid group with how magic is used. Sacrificial Magi have a hard time comprehending how Fastcasters operate - tool-users and Technomagi are, however, easier to understand.

Sacrificial Magi keep records of their work, painstakingly copied into books to aid in their research and development of new Rituals.

Starting Gold - Sacrificial Magi start with a spellbook, a masterwork alchemically silvered dagger, a bag of chalk (20 pieces) and 3d4x10 gold pieces at level 1.

Hit Dice: D6

Class Skills - Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points per Level - 2 + Intelligence Modifier

Proficiencies - Mages of the Sacrificial Paradigm are proficient with all simple weapons, plus longswords and shortswords. They do not take damage penalties when weilding silvered weapons. They are not proficient in any form of armor.

Subparadigm - At first level, the Sacrificial Mage must choose his subparadigm - Martyr, Daemon Magus, or Timebender. This choice cannot be changed once it is made and determines all other class features, including Rites, from this class.

Martyr - The Martyr uses her own life force to fuel her spells, gaining great power at great cost. Her spells heal her allies, weaken her enemies, inflict death with a touch and eventually may even create new life entirely. Martyrs add Heal and Handle Animal to their class skills list and gain a +2 inherant bonus to Constitution. Those wishing to become a Martyr cannot be evil in alignment.

Martyr Rituals - Martyrs use the Life, Death, Healing, and Creation seeds for their rituals. They pay their costs in ability score damage - usually one point for minor rituals, two for adept, three for moderate, four for major and five for supreme, to any physical ability score. A Martyr reduced to 0 in any physical ability score cannot continue to cast spells until they recover.

Daemon Magus - Even if they are not evil themselves, Daemon Magi dabble in some of the blackest arts to ever exist. Soaking themselves in blood to fuel their foul magics, Daemon Magi can sear souls, shred minds, call up hellfire and raise armies of the restless dead. Daemon Magi add Intimidate to their class skill list and gain 4 ranks in Knowledge (the Planes) at first level at no cost. Daemon Magi can be of any alignment, but may never take levels in Paladin or any prestige class that requires a good alignment to join. Their foul magics simply do not allow it.

Daemon Magus Rituals - Daemon Magus rituals use the Destruction, Forces, Necromancy, and Summoning seeds. They take damage as their cost, usually 1d4 per caster level of the ritual which cannot be prevented in any way.

Timebender - A dangerous and complicated lot, the Timebenders (also known as Sandmen) dabble in time itself, capable of aging a target with a touch, scrying into the past and future, and even traveling through time itself. Timebenders gain 4 free ranks in Knowledge (History) and Knowledge (Geography) at first level at no cost.

Timebender Rituals - Timebenders use the Time, Divination, Necromancy, and Travel seeds for their rituals. They take their damage as permanent magical aging - usually one week per caster level of the ritual. Additionally, the sudden aging causes them to take some penalties with each ritual cast (usually disorientation, penalties to physical ability scores, or temporary exodus from the timestream). Aging from minor, adept, or moderate rituals can be reversed with other Timebender powers or magical items, and even be negated by immunity to aging - major and supreme rituals, however, scar the Timebender forever and make even immortal beings feel age's touch (more on aging normally ageless beings later).

Ritual Magic (Sp) - Sacrificial Mages are scholars who cast their magic using rituals. Instead of learning spells or fastcasting, the Sacrificial Mage designs rituals according to their Subparadigm. Each ritual cast takes at least 1 round per caster level (at creation) to perform, and some may take longer due to improvement, or more powerful effects. A Sacrificial Mage may learn rituals created by other Sacrificial mages, provided these rituals use a seed to which they have access. To do so, the ritual must be recorded in some way, and the Sacrificial Mage must make a Spellcraft check (DC 10 + Caster level of the ritual maker at time of creation). Failure means that she cannot learn that particular ritual. Success allows her to add it to her list of known rituals. Rituals have Somatic and Verbal components and thus suffer from Arcane Spell Failure. Metamagic cannot be applied to rituals, though any other feat that would otherwise affect spells (such as Spell Penetration) can be. The Sacrificial Mage's caster level is equal to his levels in this class.

Rituals may be disrupted in any case where a spell may be disrupted. Look to the description of ritual creation to determine the level of the ritual in question.

Each ritual has the following components -

Ritual Name [Seed]
Ritual Strength (Minor, Adept, Moderate, Major, or Supreme)
Casting Time: At least 1 round per caster level the creator had upon making the ritual.
Cost: The cost, in damage to the caster, of the spell. Different Subparadigms have different costs.
Range: The range over which the ritual can work. Rituals tend to have very long ranges compared to fastcast spells or tool use.
Target: The being or object that benefits (or suffers) from the ritual.
Effect: What the ritual actually does
Duration: How long the effect lasts
Saving Throw: The type of save (if any) the ritual allows and what it does (partial, negates, special).
Spell Resistance: Whether or not the ritual allows spell resistance.

As long as he is willing to pay the costs, the Sacrificial Mage has no limit on the number of rituals he may perform.

Magical Aura (Su) - Like all mages, the Sacrificial Mage has an aura of power about them - the force of their will exerting itself on the world around them. Mages from other paradigms near (within 30 feet of) a Sacrificial Mage take a -2 penalty to the save DCs of all their magical effects if they are four or more caster levels below the Sacrificial Mage due to the strength of the Sacrificial Mage's paradigm. As the Sacrificial Mage gains levels, he begins to subtly warp the enviroment around him - rocks bleed, flowers moan in pain, the air seems slightly darker or lighter, or time seems to slow to a crawl or speed up immensely. Players are encouraged to come up with their own effects based on subparadigm and should note that these have no game effect - they just look cool.

Subparadigm Abilities (Su) - Aside from his rituals, the Sacrificial Mage gains a number of supernatural benefits from his paradigm, based on his subparadigm.

Martyrs - At second level, the Martyr may take wounds from her allies with a touch, taking them upon herself. As a standard action, she may take any amount of damage from a wounded living creature and she takes an equivalent amount of damage. This damage cannot be prevented, though it can be healed normally.

At fourth level, the Martyr may cast a ritual without paying its cost if she has taken at least half her hit points in damage in a single attack within the last round.

At sixth level, the Martyr may, three times a day, convert a ritual she knows with a range of "touch" into a ranged touch attack with a range of thirty feet.

At eighth level, the Martyr gains the supernatural ability to lay on hands (see the paladin class feature).

At twelth level, the Martyr has a constant sort of "lifesense". By concentrating, she can sense the presence or absence of life within sixty feet of her. If she continues to concentrate for another round, she determines the amount and type of life near her (such as "three humanoids, four outsiders, and two animals"). By concentrating another round, she determines the exact location of the life near her. The same materials that stop a Detect Thoughts spell stop this ability.

At fourteenth level, the Martyr becomes immune to disease and poison, and gains a +4 supernatural bonus to saves vs. curses.

At sixteenth level, whenever a healing ritual the Martyr casts heals at least 40 points of damage, she may also remove a curse from the target.

At eighteenth level, the Martyr transcends her human state, becoming charged with the magic of her sacrifice. The Martyr gains the Angel subtype and sprouts a pair of radiant white feathered wings, granting her a fly speed of 30 feet with good maneuverability.

Daemon Magus - At second level, the Daemon Magus aquires a fiendish hawk, raven, or owl as a familiar (see the Sorcerer class feature).

At fourth level, the Daemon Magus gains Fire, Cold, and Electricity resistance 5 as he begins to become resistant to his own destructive powers.

At sixth level, the Daemon Magus gains the ability to enlarge any ritual with an area that they cast by 50% three times per day.

At eigth level, if the Daemon Magus has killed at least one creature per spell level of the ritual in question within the past round, he may cast a single ritual without paying its cost.

At twelth level, the Daemon Magus's familiar transforms into an imp. This transformation does not take place all at once - it has been happening gradually up to this point.

At fourteenth level, the Daemon Magus's resistances increase to 15 and he gains resistance to negative energy (such as inflict moderate wounds) 10.

At sixteenth level, the Daemon Magus can ready an action to intercept a damaging or otherwise debilitating spell that targets one or more beings (but not an area). If he intercepts the spell, he and the caster make caster level checks. If the Daemon Magus succeeds, he may change the target or targets of the spell - if he fails, the spell targets him in addition to any other targets (or, if the Daemon Magus is already a target, one of his allies).

At eighteenth level, the Daemon Magi's transformation is complete - his foul magics have finally warped him entirely. If he is lawful, he gains the Baatezu subtype (though he does not gain the spell-like ability to summon Baatezu). If he is chaotic, he gains the Tanar'ri subtype (though he does not gain the spell-like ability to summon Tanar'ri). Daemon Magi who are neither lawful nor chaotic may choose between the two - once they have chosen, they cannot change their minds. Furthermore, his familiar finishes its transformation - if its master is a Baatezu, it transforms into a Hellcat. If its master is a Tanar'ri, it transforms into a Succubus.

Timebender (Sandman) - Starting at level two, the Sandman has honed his time sense to an absolute science. He always knows what time it is, down to the last second, knows what day it is, in what month, and in what year. He can tell how old something is by simply looking at it, as well as what direction and at what rate his self or anything he is witnessing is flowing through time.

Starting at level four, whenever the Timebender casts a ritual to scry into the future or the past, he gets a vague sense of what would happen if events were changed. This is equivalent to an augury spell, asking if changing one particular event would be good, bad, or nuetral to the Sandman's goals and existence.

At level six, the Timebender develops a kind of psychometry. He can read powerful emotions and events that have been left upon an area by making a Concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + the number of weeks it has been since the event or events happened. If he succeeds, he witnesses brief flashes of all the events whose DCs he beat, dropping into a trance for one minute to do so.

At level eight, the Timebender can accelerate or decelerate the flow of time to a limited degree. For two rounds immediately following successfully casting a ritual, he may either treat himself as though hasted, or treat one opponent as if slowed. There is no save against this ability, but the Timebender must be able to see his foe in order to affect him.

At level twelve, three times per day, the Timebender may take up to two other beings with him when he uses a ritual to travel through time.

At level fourteen, by consuming the duration of a friendly spell or item affecting him (thus ending the spell or item effect), the Sandman may cast a single ritual without paying its cost. This cannot be used on spells or item effects that are already more than half finished with their durations.

At level sixteen, the Sandman can automaticall detect any items that have the ability to affect time or age on the same plane as he is. He knows their direction in a straight line and a rough estimation of their distance.

At level eighteen, the Timebender is both apart from and ingrained into time itself. When performing time rituals, he may choose to diffuse himself through time, creating several parallell Timebenders that occupy a similar area. With this ability, he may cast up to three rituals with the same casting time simoultaenously. He must still pay the costs for all three of these rituals.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-01, 01:35 PM
Ritual Casting

This section deals with ritual creation and casting. Above is the components of a ritual. There are a few basic steps - choose a seed. The seed determines what the ritual -does-. After that, you fine-tune specifics - damage, range, targets, casting time - and once that's done, you show it to your DM. If s/he approves, ta-da! Ritual made!

When you create a ritual, its caster level is permanently set to your caster level at the time (unless you choose to lower it to gain something else). The spell level is determined by the grade of the ritual (Minor is 1, Adept is 3, Moderate is 5, Major is 7, and Supreme is 9) unless, again, you have raised or lowered it. You cannot create a ritual of lower grade than your highest grade - that is, if you have Major rituals available, you cannot make Moderate rituals.

Intelligence and Rituals - Intelligence is the main ability score for Ritual Casting. Intelligence modifier is added to the DCs of the rituals, and when learning a ritual, the caster must have an Intelligence of 10+the ritual's spell level. Intelligence also adds to the caster's Magical Aura class feature - the aura extends an addition 10ft times the caster's Intelligence modifier and the penalty to those from other Paradigms within the aura increases by the caster's Intelligence modifier.

Costs - Each Ritual has a cost. There are some basic guidelines under each Subparadigm, but remember that you must work out your final Cost for each ritual with your Dungeon Master. Trying to pull a fast one on your DM will result in them hitting the Smite button upon thee, heretic.

Each Seed has a few basic effects it can accomplish. They will be written out thusly -

Name of the Effect
Seed/Grade (Minor, Adept, Moderate, Major, Supreme)
Base Range:
Base Target:
Base Effect:
Base Duration:
Saving Throw:
Spell Resistance:

The caster constructing the ritual may change anything with the word "base" in its name. The grade mentioned is the minimum ritual grade needed to use the effect. The creator can combine effects in a ritual (such as a ritual that deals damage and debilitates a physical ability), but doing so increases the ritual's cost by one-half. If you choose to do so, you use the base information for the first effect and simply add the second effect onto it.

To modify the base statistics of a ritual, you may make the following exchanges -

Increase Range by One Step (Touch to Close, Close to Medium, and so forth) - Decrease damage/healing by one step (from D6 to D4, for example), increase casting time by one half of base, decrease bonuses/penalties by one half, or decrease duration by one half.

Increase Damage/Healing by One Step or Bonuses/Penalties by one-half of Base - Decrease range by one step (minimum Touch), decrease amount of targets by one half of base (minimum 1), increase casting time by one half of base, or decrease duration by one half (minimum one round or instant).

Decrease Casting Time by One Half - Decrease duration by one half (minimum one round or instant), decrease damage/healing by one step, decrease bonuses/penalties by one half, or decrease range by one step (minimum Touch)

Change to Area Spell (40ft Cone, 100 ft. Line, or 30 foot Ball, spell must already be an area spell or first have a range of Close or higher) - Decrease damage/healing by one step, decrease duration by one half (minimum one round or instant), decrease bonuses/penalties by one-half, or increase casting time by one-half of base

Increase Number of Targets by One (ranged spells only) - Decrease damage/healing by one step, decrease duration by one-quarter (minimum one round or instant), decrease bonuses/penalties by one-quarter, or increase casting time by one-quarter of base.

Increase Difficulty Class by One - Increase casting time by one-half, decrease range by one step, decrease damage/healing by one step, or decrease bonuses/penalties by one-half

Enhance Physical Ability
Life, Minor
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Living or undead creature touched
Base Effect: One physical statistic (set at time of creation) gains a +4 enhancement bonus (Minor). One physical statistic (set at time of creation) gains a +8 enhancement bonus OR two physical statistics (set at time of creation) gain a +4 enhancement bonus (Adept). One physical statistic (set at time of creation) gains a +12 enhancement bonus OR two physical statistics (set at time of creation) gain a +6 enhancement bonus OR all three physical statistics gain a +4 enhancement bonus (Moderate). One physical statistic (set at time of creation) gains a +16 enhancement bonus OR two physical statistics (set at character creation) gain a +8 enhancement bonus OR all three physical statistics gain a +6 enhancement bonus (Major).
Base Duration: One hour per caster level.
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (Harmless)

Debilitate Physical Ability Score
Death/Grade (Adept)
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Creature touched
Base Effect: One physical ability score (set at creation) gains a -4 penalty (Adept). One physical ability score (set at creation) gains a -6 penalty (Moderate). One physical ability score (set at creation) gains a -8 penalty OR two physical ability scores (set at creation) gain a -4 penalty (Major).
Base Duration: One minute per caster level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Cause Disease
Life, Adept
Base Range: Close
Base Target: One Living Creature
Base Effect: Target contracts a nonmagical disease from the Dungeon Master's Guide (Adept). Target contracts two nonmagical diseases from the Dungeon Master's Guide and recieves a -2 penalty to his saving throw (Moderate). Target contracts a magical disease, such as one of the diseases from the Book of Vile Darkness (Major).
Base Duration: Normal length of the disease
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: None

Slay
Death, Moderate
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Living Creature Touched
Base Effect: The victim dies. If s/he makes his/her save, s/he instead takes 1d8 points of damage per caster level of the ritual (Moderate and all other levels)
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Heal
Healing, Minor
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Creature Touched
Base Effect: Target is healed for 1d10 points of damage per caster level of the ritual or, if undead, is damaged for that much (Minor). The target is healed for 1d12 points of damage per caster level of the ritual or, if undead, is damaged for that much (Adept). The target is healed for 2d10 points of damage per caster level or, if undead, is damaged for that much (Moderate). The target is healed for 2d12 points of damage per caster level of the ritual, plus one per caster level of the ritual, or, if undead, damaged for that much (Major).
Base Duration: Instant.
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Lift Affliction
Healing, Adept
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Creature touched
Base Effect: You cure the target of all poisons or a diseases (chosen upon creation) (Adept). You cure the target of all poisons and diseases afflicting them (Moderate). You cure the target of all poisons, diseases, and one curse per caster level of the ritual (Major).
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Ressurection
Healing, Major
Casting Time: Ressurection does not have the normal ritual casting time, and instead takes 20 minutes to perform (ten minutes if crafted as a Supreme ritual).
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Dead Body Touched
Base Effect: The body, which must be a souled creature that has been dead (or in the case of unded, destroyed) within one month per caster level of the ritual, is returned to true life with one hit point (Major). The body, which may be any creature with an intelligence, wisdom, and charisma score, is returned to true life (or, in the case of constructs, whatever animation it was previously at) with full hit points (Supreme). In either case, the target may choose not to come back from the dead if they so wish.
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: No

Repair Damage
Creation, Minor
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Construct or object touched
Base Effect: Target is healed for 1d10 points of damage per caster level of the ritual (Minor). The target is healed for 1d12 points of damage per caster level of the ritual (Adept). The target is healed for 2d10 points of damage per caster level (Moderate). The target is healed for 2d12 points of damage per caster level of the ritual, plus one per caster level of the ritual (Major).
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Create Object
Creation, Adept
Base Range: Close
Base Target: One created object
Base Effect: You create a volume of raw material (either stone, cloth, or metal of nonprecious variety) in the space you designate. This volume of raw material is 5 lbs per caster level. The material appears on the ground - if the ground is not within range, the ritual fails (Adept). As previous grade, but you may also make semiprecious gems or rare cloth such as silk (Moderate).
Base Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Genesis
Creation, Major
Cost: Genesis has double the normal ritual cost.
Base Range: Close
Base Target: One entrance, such as a doorway or window
Base Effect: You create a demiplane with an area of 100 square miles per caster level, initially accessible through the targeted entrance. This demiplane is identical to a Prime Material plane, though it has no life on it, and has all the traits of one. Plants will grow, there is water, the like (Major). As previous grade, but you may create the plane however you wish - you determine planar traits such as alignment, magic, and may sculpt the landscape to your wishes (Supreme). Regardless of grade, if the demiplane is destroyed, dispelled, dismissed, or otherwise rendered incapable of supporting life, all living things within it are ejected to an empty space within a mile of its entrance.
Base Duration: Permanent (Dismissable)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Obliterate
Destruction, Minor
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Creature touched
Base Effect: The creature takes 1d10 negative energy damage per caster level of the ritual (Minor). The creature takes 1d12 points of negative energy damage per caster level of the ritual (Adept). The creature takes 2d10 points of negative energy damage per caster level of the ritual (Moderate). The creature must make a fortitude save or die (success indicates that they merely take 2d10 points of negative damage per caster level of the ritual) (Major).
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Fortitude half
Spell Resistance: Yes

Elemental Blast
Elemental/Destruction, Adept
Base Area: 40 ft. Cone, 30 ft. Ball, or 100 ft. Line (chosen on creation)
Base Effect: Creatures within the area of the spell take 1d10 points of either fire, cold, acid, or elecricity damage (set upon creation) per caster level of the ritual, with a Reflex save for half damage (Adept). Creatures within the area take 1d12 points of either fire, cold, acid, or elecrricity damage (set upon creation) per caster level of the ritual, with a Reflex save for half damage (Moderate). Creatures within the area take 2d10 points of eitehr fire, cold, acid, or electricity damage (set upon creation) per caster level of the ritual with a Reflex save for half damage (Major).
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes

Scream
Destruction, Moderate
Base Area: 30 ft. burst, centered on but not including the caster
Base Effect: Those within the area take 2d8 points of damage per caster level of the ritual and are struck deaf for 4 rounds. A successful Fortitude save halves the damage and eliminates the deafness (Moderate). Those within the area take 2d10 points of damage per caster level of the ritual and are struck deaf for 4 rounds. A successful Fortitude save halves the damage and eliminates the deafness (Major). Unattended objects take double damage from this spell.
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Fortitude Partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

Crumble
Destruction, Adept
Base Range: Medium
Base Target: One object
Base Effect: The caster reduces 10 cubic feet per caster level of the ritual of an object into dust. If the object is attended, it gets a Fortitude save using its possesser's save score. If not, it simply falls to ash. If the object is larger than the ritual has area to work with, the caster may shape how he wants the object to disintegrate (Adept).
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: No

Rend Soul
Destruction, Major
Base Range: Medium
Base Target: One creature that has died within the past day
Base Effect: Your magics trace the threads of the soul of one creature as it departs to the afterlife and annihilate it. The soul gets a Will save (equal to its save if it were alive) to avoid destruction. If it fails, you shred it into bits, rendering it incapable of ressurection by anything less than direct divine intervention. This spell can also destroy ghosts and other incorporeal undead. (Major)
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: No

Shred Mind
Destruction, Moderate
Base Range: Close
Base Target: One living creature
Base Effect: Your victim is assaulted by viscious nightmares and horrible psychic attacks, dealing them 2d4 points of damage in all mental ability scores and stunning them for one round. A successful Will save halves the damage and eliminates the stunning (Moderate). As above, but the damage is 2d6 (Major).
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

Annihilate
Destruction, Supreme
Cost: Annhilate costs double the normal cost for a ritual it is in.
Casting Time: Annihilate's casting time is triple the normal time for a ritual it is in.
Base Area: A one mile per caster level burst, centered on but not including the caster.
Base Effect: This awe-inspiring effect unleashes raw destruction on an unimaginable scale. All beings and unattended objects within the area take 2d10 points of damage per caster level of the ritual. A Reflex save halves the damage taken, but Evasion is useless - you cannot negate taking damage entirely. The devastation left in the wake of Annihilate renders the area infertile and unable to sustain life for a year.
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes

Shove/Yank
Forces, Minor
Base Range: Close
Base Target: One creature no more than two size categories larger than the caster
Base Effect: The caster sends a bolt of force at the creature, either thrusting it backwards or pulling it forwards (set upon creation). The two make opposed Strength checks - the caster gets a +4 bonus on this check. If the caster succeeds, the target is moved ten feet in the appropriate direction (this movement provokes attacks of opportunity) (Minor). As the previous grade, but the target is moved 20 feet if the caster succeeds (Adept). As the previous grade, but the target is moved 40 feet and knocked prone. If they fail a Fortitude save afterwards, they are dazed for 2 rounds (Moderate). As the previous grade, but the target is moved 80 feet and also takes 8d8 points of damage from sheer force.
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Special
Spell Resistance: Yes

Alter Gravity
Forces, Moderate
Base Area: A 30ft emanation centered on the caster
Base Effect: All creatures within the emanation (including the caster) are subject to either the increase, decrease, or negation of gravity for as long as the ritual lasts (the effect is set on ritual creation). Increased gravity causes all beings within the emanation to be slowed. Decreased gravity causes all beings within the emanation to be hasted. Zero gravity causes them to float, ten feet off the ground, and bob helplessly unless they have some means of flight available (Moderate).
Base Duration: One round per caster level of the ritual
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Protection from Arrows
Forces, Minor
Base Range: Personal
Base Target: You
Base Effect: You gain DR 15/+1 vs. ranged attacks (Minor). You gain DR 20/+2 vs. ranged attacks (Adept). You gain DR 25/+3 vs. ranged attacks (Moderate). You gain DR 30/+4 vs. ranged attacks (Major).
Base Duration: One hour per caster level
Saving Throw: None (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: No.

Deflection
Force, Minor
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Creature touched
Base Effect: An invisible shield of force wraps around the target, granting them a +6 deflection bonus to armor class (Minor). As above, but +8 to armor class (Adept).
Base Duration: Ten minutes per caster level of the ritual.
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes.

Reverse Gravity
Forces, Major
Base Area: A 30 ft. emanation centered on the caster
Base Effect: Within the emanation, gravity is reversed, causing all beings to "fall" upwards at the normal falling rate. If there is an obstacle, such as a cieling, they slam into it, taking appropriate damage. If not, they will continue to fall upward (drawn with the emanation) until the ritual runs out, unable to move unless they have some method of flight available to them. At the end of the ritual, all beings affected by it fall, taking appropriate damage unless they have some way of negating it.
Base Duration: One round per caster level of the ritual
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Telekenisis
Forces, Adept
Base Range: See Effect
Base Target: See Effect
Base Effect: This ritual is identical to the sorcerer/wizard spell telekinesis (Adept).
Base Duration: See Effect
Saving Throw: See Effect
Spell Resistance: See Effect

Flight
Forces/Travel, Adept
Base Range: Close
Base Target: You and up to two other creatures
Base Effect: The targets gain a fly speed of 60 with good manueverability (Adept)
Base Duration: One hour per caster level of the ritual
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes.

Puppeteer
Forces, Major
Base Range: Close
Base Target: Up to five objects of up to gargantuan size
Base Effect: You animate the targeted objects, capable of controlling them all at once. While you are rendered immobile, you may take move and attack actions with the objects in question (the objects fly at a rate of thirty feet with good manueverability). Attacks made with the objects use your attack bonus. If you have animated a dead body in this fashion, you may use any weapons it is holding. Otherwise, medium objects deal 1d8 bludgeoning damage, large objects do 2d6, huge objects deal 2d8, and gargantuan objects deal 3d6.
Base Duration: One round per caster level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Energy Drain
Necromancy, Adept
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Living creature touched
Base Effect: You sap the target's energy. If they fail a Fortitude save, they gain 2d4 negative levels (Adept). As above, but they gain 2d6 negative levels (Moderate). As above, but they gain 2d8 negative levels (Major).
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Reanimate
Necromancy, Minor
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Dead body touched
Base Effect: You reanimate the body, which can have no more hit dice than the ritual has caster levels, as a zombie or skeleton (your choice) (Minor). You reanimate the body, which can have no more hit dice than the ritual has caster levels, as any corporeal undead with equal or lesser hit dice. This undead cannot have any subtypes aside from Augumented (Adept). As above, but you may also create incorporeal undead (Moderate). As above, but you may create any undead whose Challenge Rating does not exceed the ritual's caster level (Major). You may only control a number of undead equal to four times your caster level.
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Command Undead
Necromancy, Minor
Base Range: Long
Base Target: One undead creature
Base Effect: You gain control of the undead creature if it fails a Will save (remember that you can only control up to four times your caster level worth of undead in hit dice) (Minor)
Base Duration: One hour per caster level of the ritual
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Create Soul
Necromancy, Major
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Mindless being touched
Base Effect: You touch a mostly-intact dead body or an undead being and infuse it with a brand-new soul forged from magical energy. If the body was dead, it returns to life with one hit point and a single class level (this class level must be a class you have at least one level in). If it was a mindless undead being, it gains your mental ability scores and a single class level (this class level must be a class that you have at least one level in). The soul has basic memories needed to survive, such as the ability to eat, drink, and speak, but otherwise has no memories (it still gets skill points and feats). Though otherwise free-willed, the souled creature is compelled to obey you until or unless you free it from service (souls created this way count against your hit dice of controllable undead) (Major).
Base Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Life to Undeath
Necromancy, Supreme
Base Area: A 30ft. burst, centered on but not including the caster
Base Target: All living creatures within the burst.
Base Effect: By means of this dread magic, you unleash a wave of negative energy, snuffing out all life within the area. Anything living within the area must make a Fortitude save or die and be reanimated as an undead of equal hit dice of the DMs choice under your control (remember that you can only control 4 times your caster level in hit dice of undead).
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Summon
Summoning, Minor
Base Range: Close
Base Target: Creature summoned
Base Effect: Identical to the sorcerer/wizard spell Summon Monster II (Minor). Identical to the sorcerer/wizard spell Summon Monster IV (Adept). Identical to the sorcerer/wizard spell Summon Monster VI (Moderate). Identical to the sorcerer/wizard spell Summon Monster IX (Major). You call a single being that would have the extraplanar subtype on the plane you are currently on to your side to serve you. This being cannot have more hit dice than the ritual has caster levels. If it fails a Will save, it is compelled to your service for one day per caster level of the ritual - otherwise, it stays for one minute per caster level (Supreme).
Base Duration: One minute per caster level
Saving Throw: None (or Will partial, see text)
Spell Resistance: No

Past/Future Sense
Time, Minor
Cost: You may combine Past/Future sense with effects from the Divanation seed at no extra cost.
Base Area: A 30ft emanation centered on the caster
Base Target: One time period within one month per caster level of the ritual, either in the past or future (set upon creation)
Base Effect: You throw your senses into the past or future, determining if something has happened (past) of if there is a strong probability that something might happen (future). The events you sense are either dangerous, momentous, or emotional, but there is no way to tell between the three - you simply know that something happens. When combined with an effect from the Divanation seed, use the second effect's Duration, Range, and Saving Throw (Minor)
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Age/Youthen
Time, Adept
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Creature or object touched
Base Effect: The sands of time affect your target, aging them 1d4 years per caster level of the ritual or youthening them by an equal amount (set on creation). The target takes full adjustments for aging should they youthen or age by a full age category (Adept). As above, but the victim ages (or youthens) by 1d6 years per caster level of the ritual (Moderate). As above, but the victim ages (or youthens) 1d8 years per caster level of the ritual (Major). The Timebender cannot benefit from his own Age/Youthen ritual, though he may from others.
Base Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Accelerando/Ritardando
Time, Minor
Base Area: A 10ft. emanation centered on the caster
Base Target: All creatures within the emanation
Base Effect: All creatures within the emanation either speed up or slow down (set at creation), gaining or losing 30ft to their base land speed (minimum 5ft) (Minor). As above, but those within also either gain or lose an extra partial action and gain either a +4 dodge bonus to A.C. or a -4 penalty to the same (Adept). As above, but the bonus/penalty to armor class increases to +/- 6 and they gain or lose an extra move action instead of a partial (Moderate). As above, but the bonus/penalty to armor class increases to +/- 8 and they gain or lose an extra standard action instead of a move (Major)
Base Duration: One round per caster level of the ritual
Saving Throw: Will negates (per individual)
Spell Resistance: No

Quantum Leap
Time, Major
Base Range: Personal, one year per caster level of the ritual
Base Target: You
Base Effect: You hurtle back or forward (set on creation) through time to some point in the past or future. You and any items carried on your person arrive at the location you are standing in at the time period you designated upon casting (such as "four years ago" or "three days from now"). If the caster would create a paradox that results in a time loop, the caster simply ceases to exist and the timestream corrects itself. If the caster travels to the future, they are effectively invulnerable to all means short of the intervention of a greater diety - they are suspended in the time stream (Major).
Base Duration: One hour per caster level of the ritual.
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Clockspinning
Time, Supreme
Base Range: Close (and ten years per caster level)
Base Target: One being or object
Base Effect: You hurl the victim through the timestream violently, banishing them to either the past or the future. If they fail their Will save, they are cast into either the past or future (set upon character creation), to a maximum range of ten years per caster level. When they finally arrive, the violent wrench of being banished through time ages them by two age categories (no save, full aging penaltis) (Supreme).
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Farsight
Divination, Minor
Base Range: One mile per caster level
Base Target: An area up to ten square feet per caster level
Base Effect: You throw your senses, percieving in the area you designate with sight and hearing. As long as you continue to concentrate, you can only percieve in that area, not the area around you (Minor).
Base Duration: Up to one minute per caster level of the ritual
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Enhance Perceptions
Divination, Minor
Base Range: Personal
Base Target: You
Base Effect: You gain the benefits of a see invisibility spell and a +4 enhancement bonus on Spot checks (Minor). As above, but you also gain a +4 enhancement bonus on Listen checks and can detect lies as the spell (Adept). As above, but you exude a zone of truth (Moderate). As above, but you also gain the benefits of a true seeing (Major).
Base Duration: One minute per caster level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Observe
Divination, Minor
Base Range: Unlimited
Base Target: One creature
Base Effect: This Effect is identical to Farsight, but you observe one being which you can clearly name and picture in your mind. You may choose to stop observing them at any given time, but you only percive them and any other being within ten feet of them that you have previously met (thus, you may see the being you are observing having a conversation with "no one") (Minor).
Base Duration: Up to one minute per caster level of the ritual
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Detect
Divination, Minor
Base Area: A 30ft emanation centered on the caster
Base Target: All creatures other than the caster within the emanation
Base Effect: The caster knows the alignment of all creatures within the emanation and has a vague understanding of their general location (Minor). As above, but the caster can also read surface thoughts (as though with a detect thoughts spell) and has effective Blindsense within the emanation (Adept). As above, but the caster has full Blindsight within the emanation (Moderate)
Base Duration: One minute per caster level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: No

Ride Senses
Divination, Adept
Base Range: Long
Base Target: One creature with intelligence, wisdom, and charisma of at least 2 or more.
Base Effect: Your senses leave your body and you percieve through your target, recieving full sensory input and hearing all of the target's surface thoughts. You may switch between your senses and the target's at any time, but may only percieve through one at once (Adept)
Base Duration: Up to one minute per caster level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes.

Acceleration
Travel, Minor
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: One creature per caster level of the ritual touched
Base Effect: The affected creatures' land speeds increase by 30 feet (Minor). The affected creatures' base land speeds increase by 60 feet and they gain a +2 dodge bonus to armor class (Adept). The affected creatures' base land speeds increase by 80 feet and they gain a +3 dodge bonus to armor class and a +1 speed bonus to attack rolls (Moderate). The affected creatures' base lands speeds increase by 100 feet and they gain a +4 dodge bonus to armor class and a +2 speed bonus to attack rolls (Major).
Base Duration: One minute per caster level of the ritual
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes.

Traveler's Gift
Travel, Adept
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: Creature touched
Base Effect: The creature touched gains a burrow speed, swim speed, or climb speed equal to their base land speed (set on creation), as well as a +6 enhancement bonus on Jump, Tumble, and Climb checks (Adept).
Base Duration: One hour per caster level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Teleportation
Travel, Adept
Base Range: One mile per caster level
Base Target: You plus 100 pounds of nonliving material per caster level (this includes undead and constructs).
Base Effect: With the exception of the range and target, this effect is identical to a teleport spell (Adept). As above, but the effect is identical to a greater teleport spell.
Base Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Plane Shift
Travel, Moderate
Casting Time: Rituals that incorporate Plane Shift have their casting times increased by one-half.
Base Range: Touch
Base Target: You Creature touched (up to one per caster level of the ritual)
Base Effect: You charge the power to hurl beings through the planes into your hands. For one touch per caster level, you may send a being to another plane, but all beings must go to the same destination. Unwilling beings are entitiled to a Will save to resist the effect. If you choose to end the spell early, or run out of touches, you are hurled to the same plane (no save) (Moderate).
Base Duration: One round per caster level/instant
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

puppyavenger
2008-02-01, 01:43 PM
CAn't wait for more rituels and/or Pardigims

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-01, 02:08 PM
I'm working on it ^_^ I've got some friends behind the scenes that are helping me balance what I have before I move on.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-01, 05:47 PM
Alright, I'm taking a break - I've got everything up through Destruction finished. I'll continue when I get back with Forces...geez...

Replacing a whole magic system is haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard! T_T

GoC
2008-02-01, 07:15 PM
Dominian [Evil]
Trickery, Supreme
Cost: Dominian costs double the normal cost for a ritual it is in.
Casting Time: Dominian's casting time is triple the normal time for a ritual it is in.
Base Area: A one mile per caster level burst, centered on but not including the caster.
Base Effect: This black ritual causes every living creature within one mile per caster level to become subserviant to you. If they fail a DC 10 willsave they will follow any orders you give them to the death but will otherwise continue going about their daily business. Protection from Evil and similar spells negates the effect. It can also be negated by a Dispel or remove curse effect. A DC 20 sense motive check reveals they are under outside influence if the creatures are currently doing something they wouldn't normaly do as a result of your orders reveals.
Base Duration: Instantaneous and Permanent
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-01, 11:04 PM
I appreciate and am flattered by your interest, but I'm also not done designing yet. Give me some time, and there will be plenty of Seeds designed. Just keep in mind, not everything casts with Rituals - there's also the Fastcasters and the Tool-Users. Trickery? Probably a Fastcast thing.

EnderChant
2008-02-03, 12:03 AM
I'm working on it ^_^ I've got some friends behind the scenes that are helping me balance what I have before I move on.

Hey, I'm behind the scenes! :smallcool:

Anyways, I've caught a small problem (or maybe not a problem, depending on how you want this system to work out, what I wrote below may have been deliberate on your part)

Think about this: a ritual takes one round per caster level to perform, aye? For a decent ritual, you'll be spending about anywhere between 4 to 14 rounds casting, for rituals of levels two and seven, is that correct? A lot can change in 4 to 14 (give or take a few, of course) rounds - characters you needed to heal might be dead, monsters you needed to reduce to ashes might *also* be dead.

Now, I realize the time is supposed to make up for exceptional power - but between the time you start a ritual and the time it is completed, the conditions that you would have wanted to use it under will have changed, either for better or worse - to make effective use of these, you need very good foresight. Maybe that was your goal, I'm not sure.

Also take into account the wait - X amount of rounds that a player is sitting around waiting (thus not doing much while their character starts conjuring demons), and X amount of rounds for the ritual to be disrupted, which is my next point: your Daemon Magus spends around 10 rounds on Slay (since it's first available at level 10), and she's open for 10 rounds of being smacked to disrupt the ritual. Also, the Magus (and to a lesser extent, Martyr) take damage by using their spells - third point. A Daemon Magus has to pick a physical ability.

Let's say he picks Strength. With each ritual he manages to execute, she takes (caster level)d4 damage. Since a fair number of these rituals start out as touch attacks, she'll be less and less accurate with them,though that can be changed by altering the seed so that it's ranged touch instead.

What if it's Dexterity, then? Every ritual she manages to fire off makes her slower, and will start to eat away at her AC, making her easier and easier to hit and distract.

Constitution would mean that her Concentration modifier will decrease, again making it easier to disrupt the spellcasting.

Also, I'm worried about the Martyr. He'll also be waiting around to finish his spells, during which time characters could die or be finished off.

The problem with disruption also occurs here. He'll be taking damage whether or not he makes his Concentration check. And since the Martyr has a d6 hit die and is all about taking damage for others, he'll be running out of HP pretty fast, no?


Now, I'm not sure if you intended for these sort of obstacles to arise to counter the power of rituals, but I think something may need to be addressed here.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-03, 12:10 AM
Martyr is the one who sacs ability scores ^_^

Let me clear some things up -

If Conditions Change - targeting, damage, and the like is done at the END of the ritual, not the beginning. Costs are paid at the beggining.

These obstacles ARE supposed to arise to help counter rituals. However, I will be coming up with some feats later (among one of them, Quick Ritualist) to help with certain obstacles and also enhance rituals. That sound good to you? Hell, I encourage people to come up with feats!

EnderChant
2008-02-03, 12:18 AM
Oh, crap. That would clear a lot up then - no wonder I was confused about their roles. Ability score damage makes much more sense on the martyr.

Also, for rituals, I know you pick the target and such when you're ready to fire, but my point is what you intended to do with the ritual when you started it may be a moot point. But that's the sort of thing that needs testing in play, I think.

EnderChant
2008-02-03, 12:27 AM
Feats?

Well, a big weakness I'm seeing is the time - even though the cost for both subparadigms makes more sense (Martyr = ablility; Magus = HP) they'll still be open to repeated attempts at disrupting their spells - Sandmen, too.

A feat to allow them to salvage rituals would be ideal, perhaps...

Mind over Matter
General feat

You have learned to still your mind and work your magics with such great focus that you trancend your current surroundings.

Effect: When you begin a ritual, you may increase its casting time by one extra round, in which you clear your mind. You may reduce your Armor Class by any number (so long as it does not go below one) and add that to your Concentration modifier.

Prerequisite: Ritual Casting

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-03, 12:34 AM
^_^ Nice idea. Allow me to change it (especially since that name deserves a much cooler feat than one to prevent casting disruption).

Focused Ritualist [General]
Your concentration in performing rituals is superb - even in the heat of battle, you can defend yourself while casting.
Prerequisites: Ritual Magic class feature
Benefit: You gain a +4 competance bonus to armor class vs. attacks of opportunity provoked by ritual casting and a +4 bonus on concentration checks made to avoid rituals being disrupted.

EnderChant
2008-02-03, 12:36 AM
Yeah, by all means. That should help the ritualist a bit.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-03, 12:53 AM
Quick Ritualist
You are exceptionally good at performing your rituals with haste.
Prerequisites: Ritual Magic class feature, access to Adept rituals
Benefit: You cast all your rituals in only 75% of the time it would normally take (round down in case of fractions).

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-03, 01:38 PM
Weeeeeeee Update!!!!

Martyr and Daemon Magus are now theoretically playable. Sandmen are up next, and after that I move on to some feats and then Bloodlines ^_^

jagadaishio
2008-02-03, 02:36 PM
Even with the Quick Ritualist feat, I seriously doubt that a ritualist will be able to get off any more than, at most, one ritual per battle. In my experience as a player and DM, few battles last more than five or six rounds. That means by seventh level, even with the Quick Ritualist feat, a ritualist will be able to get off one ritual per battle if they're lucky.

By 20th level, it will take 15 rounds to cast a single ritual, meaning that this system of ritual magic will be completely useless to a person in anything other than a fairly epic sized battle in which they can get far enough away from where the ACTUAL action is taking place to not be killed over the course of those 15 rounds.

As much as I like the concept, and don't get me wrong, once this is refined (I trust in your ability to do it) I think this system will be brilliant, it currently has some fairly enormous flaws to rectify. As it stands right now, though, it's unplayable. Just thought that I should point that out.

Kai-Palin
2008-02-03, 04:16 PM
This is amazing! I really like how this system is shaping up. IF you don't mind, I'd like to start toying around with ideas for Hermetics. They are primarily in that tool-users category, correct?

Also, any ideas about incorporating thaumaturgy in the common fantasy sense? Sympathetic magic and such?

munchlord
2008-02-03, 04:46 PM
may I suggest another alteration trick for these things:

double Area of Effect: the normal lessenings in return

and vica versa.

Then you could actually get a quite decent combat ritual out of Annihilate

Vadin
2008-02-03, 09:12 PM
So...rituals? Are they only being used by the Sacrificial Paradigms? Just my 2 cents, but it would really help make magic seem arcane and varied if the other paradigms had (almost, at least) entirely different casting methods. A bunch of extra work? Maybe. But when one caster is preparing these complex arcane rituals to finish off the ancient lich and the other caster is channeling the demon who is his father and blasting various arcane bolts and commanding a horde of his father's minions in the hopes of holding off the undead scourge, it'll be priceless.

Kai-Palin
2008-02-03, 10:27 PM
may I suggest another alteration trick for these things:

double Area of Effect: the normal lessenings in return

and vica versa.

Then you could actually get a quite decent combat ritual out of Annihilate

Wait, because killing everything within twenty miles practically by default isn't decent enough for combat, but killing everything within forty miles is!?
Or did I miss the intended point of the addition and its application to the annihilate base.

On the subject of Hermetic magic, I'm trying to design a paradigm around using various foci for the construction of spells. Using something approximating the existing Incarnum system, with investing energy into various arcance foci, through which the Hermetic's natural power is enhanced to applicable/lethal levels. Is that what you had envisioned, or was that more of the technomancy's realm? And how does/should technomancy tie into the traditional high fantasy world of DnD?

munchlord
2008-02-04, 01:58 AM
The application was vica versa (or how ever it is spelled)...

Lower AoE in return for, say reduced casting time... suddenly we have a high damage in a short emanation with a 3 round casting time or something... maybe less.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-04, 06:46 AM
Remember folks - the Effects there are a BASE template. You can cut down on casting time by altering them - with Quick Ritualist, you can cut down even further. Yes, rituals will take a little while, but they can also back it up with bamf. That said, more feats will also be made for ritualists, including some ritual augumentation feats.

Who's Using What Magic, Again? - Sacrificial is the primary user of Ritual magic, with the possibility of SOME Channlers using it.

Hermetics are tool-users. They believe that they can invest items with energy and use them, but that they cannot call directly on arcane might. Tool-users take for god damn ever to "create" their spells, which end up being consumable items only they can use. The items only have so many uses before they disintegrate and the Hermetic starts the whole process over again. Or, at least, that's the idea.

Bloodlines and some Channlers use Fastcasting, creating their spells on the fly. In terms of power-per-spell, they are the weakest group, but without many of the limitations of the other groups, they make fierce opponents.

Technomancers are similar to Hermetics, but to an extreme degree. Their "spells" take even longer, but when they hit, they HIT.

Technomancy? In D&D? WTF? NOOB! - *SMACK* Anyway. Remember that it's the DMs world. Just because I spend a ton of time writing up Technomancy doesn't mean you have to use it. That said, there's nothing more advanced than what one might see in the Girl Genius webcomic. Which is to say, psychotically advanced, but still fantasy-compatible.

If anyone has ideas they want to present, DO IT! It's a TON of work doing this - I haven't even STARTED on Time yet! I welcome and appreciate community input!

Kai-Palin
2008-02-04, 06:10 PM
...

Hermetics are tool-users. They believe that they can invest items with energy and use them, but that they cannot call directly on arcane might. Tool-users take for god damn ever to "create" their spells, which end up being consumable items only they can use. The items only have so many uses before they disintegrate and the Hermetic starts the whole process over again. Or, at least, that's the idea.

...

Hmm... Okay, I'll see what I can do with that. The idea that I was seeing had more of a person with an internal wellspring of energy that, unless focused properly, is fairly useless. The Hermetic mages learn one of three specialties in focusing their magic (Annuling, Sensory, and Dynamic), and construct a focus, into which they imbue their power. Once properly invested, the Hermetic can channel his innate power through the focus, and achieve magic. The type of focus chosen influences what effect comes out of pushing power through the focus, and things like rings, staves, wands, and books, having an innate relationship to magic in the minds of most living beings, channel magical force well.

Could that fit in anywhere? Or should I just scrap it and do something else?

Vadin
2008-02-04, 06:39 PM
Mind if I take swing at a bit of Fastcasting?

I'm going to work under the assumption that these casters have a small store of points I'll call Energy, and they regenerate this similar to ToB maneuvers, performing actions that restore a certain amount of points. They spend this Energy to increase the power of various effects, deciding how to improve these effects as they cast them. A very simple one:

Bolt, 0 Energy
Delivery: Attack

+1 Energy-Touch Attack, Ranged Attack
+2 Energy-Deliver through weapon, Ranged Touch Attack
Range: Touch or 30 ft.+5 ft/2 levels

+1 Energy- Double Range
Area: Target

+1 Energy- 5 ft. Burst
+2 Energy- 10 ft. Burst, Affect All In Line, Cone
Damage: 1D4 Energy type

+1 Energy- Add +1D4 Damage, Increase dice by one step (D4>D6>D8>D10)
+2 Energy- Half of damage is not subject to Resistances, Exotic Damage (Force, Positive Energy, Negative Energy)
Effect: +1 Energy, Special (Depends on Energy Type)

Fire: Subject must make Reflex save or catch on fire
Cold: Subject is slowed for 1d4 rounds on failed Fort. save
Acid: Subject takes half as much damage again on next turn on failed Ref. save
Electricity: Subject takes -1d6 penalty on next save on failed Will save
Positive/Negative: Add caster level to damage
Force: Subject loses any SR for 1d4 rounds on failed Will save


Similar but unrelated, an example of how these casters might recharge Energy: spend a full round action making a single bolt attack against a foe or performing a harmless display of arcane might to regain your Recharge Bonus to Energy.

Your Recharge Bonus is equal to 1/4 your level rounded down, minimum 1. Your maximum Energy is equal to your level. In addition, you gain 1/2 your Recharge Bonus to Energy every turn beginning at level 8.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-05, 04:55 AM
Hmm... Okay, I'll see what I can do with that. The idea that I was seeing had more of a person with an internal wellspring of energy that, unless focused properly, is fairly useless. The Hermetic mages learn one of three specialties in focusing their magic (Annuling, Sensory, and Dynamic), and construct a focus, into which they imbue their power. Once properly invested, the Hermetic can channel his innate power through the focus, and achieve magic. The type of focus chosen influences what effect comes out of pushing power through the focus, and things like rings, staves, wands, and books, having an innate relationship to magic in the minds of most living beings, channel magical force well.

Could that fit in anywhere? Or should I just scrap it and do something else?

Remember the key behind the project - the most important thing is their belief in what they're doing. The magic doesn't have to come from anywhere but the mage's own force of will - that's why tool-users are even possible. It's just that, without a Paradigm, your will just isn't strong enough to shape the energy.

Write up what you're thinking of for Hermetics - it can't hurt, can it? And if it turns out to be OMGTEHAWESOMESAUCE!!!! then we can go from there ^_^

@Vadin - Interesting concept - it can probably be fleshed out more. Gimmie some time to finish up this bit of Rituals and I'll toss a few things at you that I'm giving exclusively to Fastcasters - certain "types" of magic.

EnderChant
2008-02-09, 10:42 PM
Alright, how about a feat to allow the editting of rituals?

I can understand why they can't be customized after the fact from a gaming perspective, but not a fluff point of view. There'd need to be cost involved, in XP or similar.

Or, a Sandman seed to do something similar. Magic to effect other magic directly would be interesting.

mikeejimbo
2008-02-09, 11:10 PM
A quick question about rituals. If you're, say, caster level 20, can you cast a ritual as a lower level caster, so that it wouldn't take as long to cast (but naturally, have less of an effect)?

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-09, 11:20 PM
Nope, but you CAN pay the price to reduce casting time. Ritualists and Fastcasters can't reduce their raw power - only Tool-Users get that option.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-11, 09:30 AM
Mind if I take swing at a bit of Fastcasting?

I'm going to work under the assumption that these casters have a small store of points I'll call Energy, and they regenerate this similar to ToB maneuvers, performing actions that restore a certain amount of points. They spend this Energy to increase the power of various effects, deciding how to improve these effects as they cast them. A very simple one:

Bolt, 0 Energy
Delivery: Attack

+1 Energy-Touch Attack, Ranged Attack
+2 Energy-Deliver through weapon, Ranged Touch Attack
Range: Touch or 30 ft.+5 ft/2 levels

+1 Energy- Double Range
Area: Target

+1 Energy- 5 ft. Burst
+2 Energy- 10 ft. Burst, Affect All In Line, Cone
Damage: 1D8 Energy type (1D6 Positive/Negative Energy, 1D4 Force)

+1 Energy- Add +1D8 Damage, Increase D8's to D10's (D6's to D8's, D4's to D6's)
+2 Energy- Half of damage is not subject to Resistances
Effect: +1 Energy, Special (Depends on Energy Type)

Fire: Subject must make Reflex save or catch on fire
Cold: Subject is slowed for 1d4 rounds on failed Fort. save
Acid: Subject takes half as much damage again on next turn on failed Ref. save
Electricity: Subject takes -1d6 penalty on next save on failed Will save
Positive/Negative: Add caster level to damage
Force: Subject loses any SR for 1d4 rounds on failed Will save


Similar but unrelated, an example of how these casters might recharge Energy: spend a full round action making a single bolt attack against a foe or performing a harmless display of arcane might to regain your Recharge Bonus to Energy.

Your Recharge Bonus is equal to 1/4 your level rounded down, minimum 1. Your maximum Energy is equal to your level. In addition, you gain 1/2 your Recharge Bonus to Energy every turn beginning at level 8.

I like this idea - I like it a lot. But remember, that in terms of raw power, fastcasters are punks. The damage at low levels is measured in D4s and D6es, with D8s getting busted out only later on. They make up for it in sheer flexibility, of course, but there's only so much will you can muster in three seconds. Continue!

Also - I'm going to need some tables, namely ability score tables. These casters use Intelligence (Ritualists, Technomancers, Hermetics) or Charisma (Everyone else). Since I just have Ritualists up, we need some way for Intelligence to affect their casting - I want to hear YOUR ideas!

MorkaisChosen
2008-02-11, 11:14 AM
Intelligence affecting the penalties they take? Maybe make them able to reduce damage by Int bonus, or negate it Int times per day?

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-11, 04:29 PM
Fluff is done!

Now I need more ideas on the Int thing! Get to it, people!

Kai-Palin
2008-02-11, 05:15 PM
I like MorkaisChosen's idea. I imagine any saves against the rituals are affected by the ability modifier as well.

I'm planning on implementing some sort of thing with Intelligence with Hermetics, most likely making their intelligence modifier function as the maximum number of spells they can have "running" (minute+ duration spells).

One idea for fast-caster, when regaining energy, perhaps let the caster make a full-round action in which he/she meditates, restoring energy equal to the character's level (or level x Cha/Int modifier, not sure how much energy any given caster gets). While recharging with power, the fastcaster's body is filling with volatile energy (sparks zipping across body, fire filling palms, general radiant glow suffusing skin, etc.), which deals some type of energy damage equal to the amount of energy restored to any enemy that attacks the fastcaster with a natural/nonreach weapon while meditating.
That way the caster has at least something interesting to do while spending their entire round's action regaining the ability to perform their major class ability.

Another idea: For the chronomancers, might it make sense for the high magics (Supreme and possible Major rituals) to, instead of aging them, remove years off of their lifespans? Something like .5-1% of the total lifespan gets spent as the sacrifice cost instead of aging weeks. I just remember a book I read where a wizard was maintaining a massive shield and taking the energy for it from years of her life.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-12, 07:28 AM
That would be a good idea, except for things like an Amulet of Eternal Youth. I'll keep the aging ^_^

Morkais - Your idea makes sense from a balance perspective, but not a flavor one. You can't cheat magic - in the mind of these mages, you MUST give something up to get something back.

MorkaisChosen
2008-02-12, 08:04 AM
OK, so if we make Intelligence govern the maximum power of the Rituals they can use (just like current rules: Int required = spell level+10), maybe have it affected the numebr of rituals they know, or even have a direct mechanical benefit on the ritual (D10+int bonus damage, for example).

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-12, 09:28 AM
Feats

Focused Ritualist [General]
Your concentration in performing rituals is superb - even in the heat of battle, you can defend yourself while casting.
Prerequisites: Ritual Magic class feature
Benefit: You gain a +4 competance bonus to armor class vs. attacks of opportunity provoked by ritual casting and a +4 bonus on concentration checks made to avoid rituals being disrupted.

Quick Ritualist [General]
You are exceptionally good at performing your rituals with haste.
Prerequisites: Ritual Magic class feature, access to Adept rituals
Benefit: You cast all your rituals in only 75% of the time it would normally take (round down in case of fractions).

Ritual Prodigy [General]
Your rituals are simply more powerful than others', thanks to innate skill and talent.
Prerequisite: Ritual Magic class feature, Intelligence 16+
Benefit: Whenever you design a ritual, you may improve a single aspect without drawback (for example, increasing the damage by one step).

Ritual Crafter [General]
You've honed your talents at creating rituals, becoming more skilled.
Prerequisites: Ritual Magic class feature, Ritual Prodigy, access to Adept rituals, Intelligence 18+
Benefit: Whenever you design a ritual, you may improve two aspects of the ritual without drawbacks, but not the same aspect twice (for example, increasing the damage by one step and the range by one step). This benefit overlaps (does not stack with) that granted by Ritual Prodigy.

Ritual Savant [General]
You are a peerless master of ritualcraft.
Prerequisites: Ritual Magic class feature, Ritual Prodigy, Ritual Crafter, access to Moderate rituals, Intelligence 20+
Benefit: Whenever you design a ritual, you may improve three aspects of the ritual without drawbacks, but not the same aspect (for example, increasing the damage by one step, the range by one step, and adding a target). This benefit overlaps (does not stack with) that granted by Ritual Crafter.

Blood to Blood [General]
Your blood magics are especially potent, ravaging bodies and sapping away at souls.
Prerequisites: Daemon Magus subparadigm, access to Adept rituals, Ritual Prodigy, Constitution 13+
Benefit: Whenever casting a ritual that uses the Destruction seed, you may spontaenously increase the cost by up to 1d4 points of damage per caster level of the ritual and add an equal number of dice to the damage dealt. You must choose whether or not to use this feat at the beginning of the ritual (when all costs are paid).

Healer's Grace [General]
You are touched with a kind of grace that lets you channel healing magics more easily.
Prerequisites: Martyr subparadigm, access to Adept rituals, Ritual Prodigy, any good alignment
Benefit: You pay only half the cost (rounded down) of any ritual you cast with the Healing seed.

Theory of Relativity [General]
Your very presence warps time around you, lengthening seconds, shortening hours, and bending days.
Prerequisites: Timebender subparadigm, access to Adept rituals, Ritual Prodigy, Wisdom 13+
Benefit: You may halve or double the duration of any spell, ritual, or item effect that affects you. You must choose whether or not to use the feat the round you are affected - you cannot later choose to double or halve the durations.

Armor of Convictions [General]
Your force of will can turn aside blades and arrows alike.
Prerequisites: Magical Aura class feature, caster level 12th
Benefit: You gain a constant deflection bonus to your armor class equal to one-quarter your current caster level (round fractions down).

Mage Duelist [General]
You are trained in magical battle and attack, stabbing spells home with viscious intensity.
Prerequisites: Intelligence or Charisma 16+, Magical Aura class feature, cannot be a Technomancer
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on caster level checks against other spellcasters. Furthermore, if you are a ritualist, you may ready an action to disrupt a spell or fastcast (treat as though countering a spell). If you do, you pay costs as though you had just cast a Moderate ritual of caster level equal to the countered ritual or fastcast. If you are a fastcaster, you may ready an action to disrupt a spell or ritual, paying energy equal to its caster level.

Improved Mage Duelist
You are truly talented at magical battle
Prerequisites: Intelligence or Charisma 20+, caster level 10th, Mage Duelist, Magical Aura class feature
Benefit: You no longer need to ready actions to disrupt rituals and fastcasts, instead doing so as an immediate action. Furthermore, your spells are strengthened by magical auras, gaining a number of bonus dice on damage (or additions to their bonuses/penalties) equal to one-quarter the caster level of the highest-level caster aside from yourself with the Magical Aura class feature.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-12, 09:35 AM
OK, so if we make Intelligence govern the maximum power of the Rituals they can use (just like current rules: Int required = spell level+10), maybe have it affected the numebr of rituals they know, or even have a direct mechanical benefit on the ritual (D10+int bonus damage, for example).

Hrmm...

Alright, the Int thing for casting works, but I'm leery of giving such a direct mechanical benefit. HRMM....

OH! What if Intelligence increased their Magical Aura's range by 10 feet and the penalty to other Paradigms by -1?

MorkaisChosen
2008-02-12, 10:22 AM
Yeah, that works- and with those feats having an Int prerequisite, Intelligence is definitely important to a Ritualist, especially if it's a prereq for using a ritual.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-13, 07:28 AM
Alright, I just have to finish rewording some things and this is DONE - and then, I can move onto...a lot more work T_T

The_Werebear
2008-02-14, 12:43 AM
I have been looking at the ritualist. It really is a great concept, but multiple rounds is really too long for combat. The longest fight I have ever seen lasted 10 rounds. Later on in levels, they simply won't be able to keep up in a fight, and will be reduced to pre battle buffs and post battle repairs.

While you do want the ponderous, but powerful feel, it is simply too long to gain the effect needed, especially with the sacrifice. My suggestions are as follows.

1) Half the casting time. The time it takes to make a ritual is caster level/2, rounded up. So, a very minor first level ritual is as complex as tracing a circle and a squiggly bit, and later on, it may take as much as 30 or a minute seconds to craft one. Maybe, as a high level feat, allow them to reduce time to 1/3. You still get the magical behemoth feel without being utterly invalidated by your party members moving fast. To get the appropriate feel for the fastcasters, many of their spells could be swift actions that last only for a round, or swift, weak, blasts.

2) Allow them to use weaker effects. If all you have to do is kill a single goblin, why spend 30 seconds unleashing uberpowerful magic? Sure, you could nuke him into oblivion, but what is the problem with a simple, minor effect that takes him to -3 rather than -300? I can imagine moderation and control being watchwords of Sacrificial casters, especially since they only have limited amounts of what they give for power. So, even if they are level 10, they can still use an effect that is only level 5 and save some power for later.

MorkaisChosen
2008-02-14, 07:23 AM
An alternative- as the Ritual continues, more and more powerful effects are unleashed. So a 1-round ritual might do a minor effect, but the next turn a bigger effect is added, then more, then BANG! enemies dead.

For example, a slightly evil ritual might start opening a portal to the Abyss. The first turn, creatures in an area take a bit of Fire damage. Next turn, they get a bit more damage added and a penalty to hit (or something). The next turn a couple of Imps turn up and rampage slightly, then some more powerful stuff, and if the Ritual goes on for about 20 turns (something ridiculous like that) a Pit Fiend comes to play...

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-14, 09:15 AM
There seems to be some minor confusion - they can still USE lower-level rituals that they've already designed. However, they cannot intentionally CREATE new weak rituals. Get what I mean?

The_Werebear
2008-02-14, 03:17 PM
Right, that makes more sense. So, they just need to make sure to design everything they might need for weak stuff then.

Vadin
2008-02-14, 07:23 PM
If I'm not mistaken, having lower level rituals is kind of like having low-level spells and being a sorcerer. If I'm level 15, and I've traded out all my 1st level spells for higher level spells. Sure, I've got more powerful spells to choose from, but when I run out or just want to hit one guy...what then?

A note should be added about creating higher level characters, and how they should remember to have some lower level rituals created.

Kai-Palin
2008-02-14, 08:25 PM
An alternative- as the Ritual continues, more and more powerful effects are unleashed. So a 1-round ritual might do a minor effect, but the next turn a bigger effect is added, then more, then BANG! enemies dead.

For example, a slightly evil ritual might start opening a portal to the Abyss. The first turn, creatures in an area take a bit of Fire damage. Next turn, they get a bit more damage added and a penalty to hit (or something). The next turn a couple of Imps turn up and rampage slightly, then some more powerful stuff, and if the Ritual goes on for about 20 turns (something ridiculous like that) a Pit Fiend comes to play...

I really, really like this idea. If we could figure out how to balance it, this could be a nearly perfect solution to the "Oh, it does a lot, but it takes too long" problem.

Uncle Festy
2008-02-14, 09:43 PM
I had a thought about Int. Maybe Int restricts the number of times you can modify a ritual?

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-16, 02:39 PM
@Uncle - It's an idea, but not one I'm particularly fond of. I'm trying to fix spellcasting power levels without using arbitrary limitations, and I really want rituals to be something the player can be proud of - after all, it's something truly THEIRS. Fastcasters, though, may get such a limit ^_^

Gradual Rituals - The problem I have with this is it would require reworking all I've already done T_T That makes me a sad panda. Aside from that, they can still use the lower-level rituals they've already designed. The idea behind powerful rituals taking so long is that they're supposed to be something SPECIAL. Look at Annihilate. Look at Genesis. Those are things that, when they go off, will never be forgotten. Casters of those rituals will go down in the history of whatever world they are in.

At level 20, a Sacrificial Mage should have 7 Minor rituals, 5 Adept, 5 Moderate, 5 Major and 1 Supreme.

puppyavenger
2008-02-16, 07:57 PM
Would it be reasonable to replace the Dragons Sorceror casting with darconic bloodline casting? also what Pardigrims next?

Cormac
2008-02-16, 11:44 PM
For example, a slightly evil ritual might start opening a portal to the Abyss. The first turn, creatures in an area take a bit of Fire damage. Next turn, they get a bit more damage added and a penalty to hit (or something). The next turn a couple of Imps turn up and rampage slightly, then some more powerful stuff, and if the Ritual goes on for about 20 turns (something ridiculous like that) a Pit Fiend comes to play...

I love this idea. I think to do it well would require a radical shift, but i think it would solve what seems to me to be the glaring problem of this class. sure they can cast quick spells, but why not combine, them, and who would ever wait for 10 rounds for a spell to take effect in a combat?

My thought, and this is a probably too much of an overhaul to take seriously, but if you wouldnt mind i might try my hand at it and see what folks think, but you could marry this system with mana. Each round the ritualists are able to put more and more mana into their spells, drawing more and more effects (as they gain levels they would be able to prolong rituals, and spend more mana in rituals per turn--and the real limits to their power would be how much mana they can spend on a specific ritual). Perhaps they could really only have a few rituals, but depending on how they wanted to spend their mana they could have their rituals do different things, you could spend 17 mana to summon a pitfiend (which might take a 20th level ritualist 2 rounds) or you could summon brimstone (9 mana, which could be done in 1 round and would do 1d6/lvl) or for the big one they could have their enemies swallowed by the pit to the abyss 34 mana and it takes 4 rounds.

I dont think i would ever, ever use a spell that cost more than 4 rounds. just think about the amount of damage a 4th level barbarian could do in 4 rounds. would it possibly stack with that?

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-17, 12:09 PM
Alright, alright - if someone wants to take a hand at the gradual ritual system, we'll see what happens, but I'm movin' on to the next Paradigm pretty soon (I'm gonna clean up the wordings later).

@Cormac - Please don't take the following personally.

*SMACK SMACK SMACK SMITE*

This is magic, not psionics. The mana system (no matter how you put it) is too close to power points for my liking. I just...have severe dislike of it.

Cormac
2008-02-17, 11:19 PM
point taken (and strangely enough, i just made a similar point on another pose :-)

I will see what i can do mana-less (though I am tempted to say that a mana system for gradual casting is different enough from psions, but i think that would just be a lame attempt at covering myself for having made a bad point :-)

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-18, 09:07 AM
ANNOUNCEMENT!

With the ideas presented for Hermetic and Fastcasting, I'm going to wait for the community on those. Thus, the next Paradigm I will be working on will be Technomancers.

Click-click-boom, baby.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-18, 09:55 AM
Technomancer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Subparadigm, Paradox Aura (-2), Cobble

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Subparadigm Ability

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Subparadigm Ability

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Invent

6th|
+4|
+1|
+5|
+5|Paradox Aura (-4)

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+6|
+6|Subparadigm Ability

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+6|
+6|

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+7|
+7|Forge

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+7|
+7|

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+8|Paradox Aura (-6)

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+8|

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+9|
+9|Subparadigm Ability

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+9|
+9|Craft Contraption

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+10|Suparadigm Ability

17th|
+13/+8/+3|
+5|
+10|
+10|

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+11|Paradox Aura (-1/2 Character Level)

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+11|

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+12|Doomsday Device[/table]



Weapon and Armor Proficiencies - Technomancers are proficient with all simple weapons, all crossbows, black powder weapons and their own inventions.

Class Skills - Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Craft (Technological Device) (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Repair (Int), and Speak Language (N/A)

Skill Points Per Level - 2+Int Modifier

Paradox Aura - Technomancers are fanatical unbelievers in magic - such things do not fit into their scientific, rational, reasoned view of the universe. Indeed, any mage that comes near (within 30 feet of) them finds their magic bent and twisted, casting spells as though his caster level were 2 lower (he may still cast higher-level spells, he simply casts them as though he had a lower caster level). This penalty increases to -4 at 6th level, -6 at 12th level, and to half the Technomancer's character level at 18th level. The effects of the spell or ritual manifest strangely, becoming coincidental, technological, or (in the case of spells whose levels have been reduced to no effect) simply not happening.

Subparadigm - At first level, the Technomancer must choose a Subparadigm. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.

[i]Black Powder Master - A woman of explosives and guns, the Black Powder Master dishes the damage with hot lead. Her inventions use the weaponry, explosives, and mechanical walker blueprints. Black Powder Masters gain a +2 expertise bonus to ranged attacks made with firearms and gain 4 ranks in Craft (Alchemy) and Craft (Gunsmithing) for free at level 1.

Madboy/girl - Maniacal inventors and tinkers, madboys cobble together inventions that don't just warp the laws of nature, they shatter them. Their inventions use the steampunk, clank, and mad science blueprints. Madboys/girls gain a +2 inherant bonus to Intelligence, a -2 inherant penalty to Wisdom, and 4 ranks in Craft (Technologial Device) at level 1.

Ethernaut - Going boldly where no one (sane) has gone before, the Ethernauts walk a fine line between mage and nonbeliever, piercing the dimensions with their inventions and going places where the natural laws of their homes no longer function. Their inventions use the portal, protection, and warp blueprints. Ethernauts gain a +2 expertise bonus to saving throws vs. spells and strange environments (such as a geyser of lava in the elemental plane of fire) and 4 free ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) and Knowledge (Arcana) at level 1.

Cobble - The Technomancer may make minor inventions with his Craft (Technological Device) skill, creating them faster than other craftsmen. He may craft any mechanical item that fits his blueprints, taking one hour per Craft check, of a Technology Level up to 2.

Subparadigm Abilities - As the Technomancer levels up, he gains various abilities based on his Subpardigm. These abilities are Supernatural and cease to function inside antimagic fields and similar effects.

Black Powder Master - At second level, the Black Powder Master gains Point Blank Shot as a bonus feat.

At fourth level, the Black Powder Master may, by increasing the crafting cost of the item by one-half, increase the damage dealt by her inventions by one die step.

At eighth level, the Black Powder Master may trigger a spontaenous explosion three times per day. The Black Powder Master is not aware that she has done this - it is an inexplicable coincidence that she will chalk up to some scientific explanation. The explosion is a ten-foot sphere that deals 1d6 points of fire damage per class level.

At fourteenth level, when repairing one of their inventions, the Black Powder Master may choose to make it less stable in return for more damage. If they choose to use this ability, which must be declared before the Repair check is rolled, the device functions normally for 1d4+1 rounds, but its Malfunction Rating is doubled. If the device does damage or it malfunctions, the damage dice for is increased by one step.

At sixteenth level, the Black Powder Master gains immunity to the energy type of her choice. It must be an energy type that she has regularly used (for most Black Powder Masters, it will be fire).

Madboy/girl - At second level, the Madboy may go into a maniac surge. During times of stress or excitement, he must make a Will save (DC 10 + Class Level) or drop into a state of frenzy, gaining a +4 bonus to Intelligence and a -4 penalty to Wisdom. They will continue work (or fighting) until the stress passes or until affected by a calm emotions spell or similar effect. While under the effect of his maniac surge, the Madboy makes Craft checks in half the time he normally would.

At fourth level, whenever building a clank, the Madboy may adjust its mental scores. Clanks normally have 12, 10, 8 to distribute in their mental ability scores - the Madboy instead treats it as a 30 point pool to distribute as he wishes, with the requirement that each score have at least 3 points in it.

At eighth level, the Madboy pays 50% less when inventing supertechnological machines (for more on supertechnology, see Craft (Technological Device).

At fourteenth level, the bonuses and penalties associated with his maniac surge increase to 8 (minimum Wisdom 1) and the Madboy has a 40 point pool with which to create his clanks' minds.

At sixteenth level, the Madboy may make Repair checks in combat without upping the device's Malfunction Rating. Furthermore, he may make cybernetic grafts as a mad science blueprint.

Ethernaut - At second level, the Ethernaut gains a +4 bonus to saving throws against effects that cause or are caused by the warping of reality (examples include a rod of wonder or one of his inventions using the warp blueprint).

At fourth level, the Ethernaut gains a +2 expertise bonus to all attack rolls made through or with inventions using the portal blueprint. Furthermore, his bonus to saves vs. reality-warping effects increases to +6.

At eighth level, the Ethernaut loses the benefit of their Paradox Aura ability and gains a reality-warping aura. Spells or rituals cast into or from inside the aura have a percent chance equal to the Ethernaut's class level to result in a wild magic surge.

At fourteenth level, the Ethernaut reduces the time for any of his inventions using the warp or portal blueprints to function by one-half (minimum one round).

At sixteenth level, the Ethernaut may make disintegration weapons (see the mad science blueprints) as a portal blueprint, with a +6 increase to the Craft (Technological Device) DC to do so.

Invent - The Technomancer may now craft technological devices with a technology level of up to 4, and may invent his own devices, subject to the guidelines outlined below and DM approval.

Forge - The Technomancer may craft technological devices with a technology level of up to 6 and may combine two seperate blueprints (such as portal and warp, provided that one of the blueprints is at a technology level of 3 or lower in the resulting invention.

Craft Contraption - The Technomancer may craft technological devices with a technology level of up to 8 and may combine two seperate blueprints without restriction, and may add a third, provided that the third blueprint has a technology level of 4 or less.

Doomsday Device - The Technomancer may now craft technological devices with a technology level of up to 10, and may combine blueprints without restriction. Furthermore, any former restrictions on size or cost are now eliminated - the Technomancer may make his inventions as huge and costly as they wish. Restrictions imposed by the laws of physics still exist (such as the inability to launch a rocket into orbit using only black powder).

Uncle Festy
2008-02-19, 10:26 PM
Black Powder Master - A woman of explosives and guns, the Black Powder Master dishes the damage with hot lead. Her inventions use the weaponry, explosives, and mechanical walker blueprints. Black Powder Masters gain a +2 expertise bonus to ranged attacks made with firearms and gain 4 ranks in Craft (Alchemy) and Craft (Gunsmithing) for free at level 1.


Woot! A Black Powder Mage that's actually, you know, a mage!
Oh, and why are all the pronouns female?

munchlord
2008-02-20, 02:00 AM
Oh, and why are all the pronouns female?

My guess is because the poster in question is female... I have a tendency to use male ones when speaking in general terms.

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-20, 07:21 AM
Hey, hey, so far, only Martyrs and Black Powder Masters are female.

I'm gonna work on the Subparadigm Abilities today, probably during French.

Primal Fury
2008-02-21, 04:08 PM
huh. seems like you really have something here. though i do prefer White Wolf's "Werewolf: The Forsaken" over "Mage: The Awakening" i like these classes (especially the Technomancer) and the rules alot.

good on ya!:smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth
2008-02-23, 05:14 PM
^_^ I'm working on the Ethernauts now and then on blueprints

Uncle Festy
2008-03-03, 07:36 PM
"Ka-BUMP!"

Lord_Gareth
2008-03-04, 09:12 AM
Sorry about that, I hit a wall with Ethernauts. I'm gonna try something now and see how it works ^_^.

Lord_Gareth
2008-03-04, 09:27 AM
Done ^_^ Finishing class features, then outlining some of the skills, then doing up the actual blueprints.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-04, 12:17 PM
Hey Gareth. Remember me? [Hint: Artificer] I've been absent on the WotC boards lately (just somehow feel strange and alien now, and I can't really get back into the swing of things), but now I'm up and kicking over here.

I took a look at this, and some of it (most, actually) is pretty awesome. However, there are a few problems I see...the main one being the immense casting times for rituals. They're also entirely useless within combat, and require some re-working to be even considered an option. At level 20, assuming that I halve the casting cost TWICE, it's still taking me 5 rounds. Combat may be OVER in 5 rounds, and I'm just casting the equivalent of Slay Living.

I'll see what I can think up to solve that problem, and see if I have any other ideas while I'm at it.

Oh...as a side note, how have you been lately?


EDIT: Alright. Did a little looking at the rituals, and I think we can possibly solve the issue by having a ritual "power-up." You can choose to stop the casting at any time for a lesser effect, or you can continue the ritual for a more powerful bang. The casting times on this have been completely changed, but I whipped up an example just to see what you thought. (Edit 2: Someone already mentioned this. Several times. Guess I should read more than just your posts...)

Note: An Extension is an optional additional round added to the casting time. The spell effect begins as soon as the first casting round is over (i.e. the end of the turn) and the effects continue to stack as the spell progresses. Eventually a critical limit is reached where no more Extensions can be applied, at which point you must stop casting the ritual, and any further duration takes effect unless something says otherwise. Additionally, at any point in time after the initial casting time has been expended you may choose to cease casting the ritual and simply have it finish it's duration as usual.

Awaken the Earthen Dragon
Destruction, Major
Casting Time: 1 round
Extension: +1 round
Area: 50ft radius
Range: Sight
Effect: When you perform this ritual the earth rises up in protest of your magicks, shaking violently in an effort to disrupt you. All creatures within a 50ft radius of the ritual must make a Reflex save (DC 18 + Your Charisma modifier) each round or fall prone.
Extension I: The tremors increase at an alarming rate, spreading and making passage difficult. The radius increases to 75ft, and all terrain in the area is treated as being difficult terrain.
Extension II: Shards of rock begin to fly lethally through the air, dealing 3d6 points of damage a round to everything within the area of effect.
Extension III: Great rifts of earth open, and opponents must make a Reflex save (DC 18 + Your Charisma modifier) each round or fall into one. At the end of the ritualís duration, all foes trapped within the earth are slain instantly as the ground swallows them up. A Climb check (DC 20) is necessary to climb up from a chasm.
Extension IV: The earth erupts in a cataclysmic burst of stone and dirt. Everything within the radius of the effect takes 25d6 points of damage and must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 18 + Your Charisma Modifier) or be pinned under rubble, requiring a Strength check DC 20 or three rounds of digging to break free. This cuts the ritual short, ending all effects instantly.
Duration: Casting+5 rounds
Saving Throw: Ref Partial (See text)
Spell Resistance: No

For a single round of focusing, it's a wide range battlefield control spell useful against opponents who don't have good Reflex saves. After 2 rounds it's a doubly effective measure, allowing ranged attacks to snipe them with ease.

After three rounds it begins to get offensive, as opponents take damage each round. It's not a lot of damage, but it'll continue for at least 5 more rounds.

After four rounds you have the potential for a kill effect in there, although there are two ways to avoid it.

The fifth round can guarantees a kill by cutting the ritual short and trapping a foe. It also deals an impressive amount of damage and traps opponents who might still be on their feet.

In short, it starts out as something you might spend a round to do: impede a large number of opponents, but, as you invest more time into it, it returns the favor by becoming more and more powerful.

What do you think?

Uncle Festy
2008-03-06, 11:40 AM
I dunno about you, Gareth, but me likey very much.

To continue the Djinn's idea, here's an idea. Probably needs some work, though.

Gate of Fire
Casting Time: 1 round
Extension: 2 rounds
Area: 30 ft line
Effect: The ritual opens a small gate to the Elemental Plane of Fire, letting fire burst through in a 30 ft line. Anyone in that line takes 1d6 fire damage per round the gate has been open at the beginning of your turn (Ref save half). You may move the gate up to 30 ft and turn it in any direction as a move action.
Extension I: The energies of the Elemental Plane of Fire begin leaking through. At the beginning of each of your turns, anyone within a 45 ft radius of the gate must make a Fort save or be exhausted for one round by the waves of heat that emit from the gate.
Extension II: The gate widens. It now affects a 40 ft line 10 ft wide, and deals 1d8 fire damage/round the gate has been open.
Extension III: The energy leaking from the Elemental Plane of Fire gets worse. The radius of the exhaustion effect increases to 60 ft, and deals 2d6 fire damage on a failed save.
Extension IV: Elementals begin coming through from the gate. At the beginning of each round, a fire elemental (no clue what size) comes through the gate. You have no control over it, but it will not attack you.
Extension V: The gate begins radiating in all directions. It no longer deals fire damage in a line. Instead, it deals that fire damage within the 60 ft radius instead of the standard 2d6 fire damage within that radius. The fire elementals coming through are now (increased size/age).

Wow. I probably misformatted that some 20-odd times. Correct me, please.

Lord_Gareth
2008-03-06, 03:25 PM
@Djinn - GID! YO! *Tackleglomphugglehandshakesyravs.cabenduurgideonv s.kyle*

I've been fine - grounded on and off, picked up a girlfriend (Walmart sells now, can you believe it?) and making homebrews as fast as I possibly can. You might find my Gani somewhere on these pages - they can't have gone far.

As to your idea - I love the idea. But it would also necessitate changing the entire text of ritualcasting and ritualcrafting, as well as the rules of rituals, and I really don't have the strength of will to do that at the moment. Would you mind spelling out all the technical stuff? I mean, I know it's asking a h oly hell of a lot, but it would mean a LOT to me.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-06, 03:36 PM
And the same to you, my friend. The same to you. :smallbiggrin:

As to the technical stuff, I'd be happy to. Can't promise a delivery date, but I'll work on whipping up some stuff and converting what you have up when I've got a minute or two.

Also, Walmart's selling? I may have to check this out...:smallbiggrin:

munchlord
2008-03-06, 03:40 PM
*is sad that there are several hundred miles to the nearest Walmart*

Lord_Gareth
2008-03-07, 10:31 AM
Alright folks, it's long, it's scary, it's gonna be edited into the Technomancer post later, it's the rules on technology!


Technological Devices
"It's simple, really. Just connect the chrono-enhancement circut to the positron accelerator, sit back, and watch it make your coffee."
- Valaria Anstron-Laythe, Madgirl

Technological devices are crafted using the Craft (Technological Device) skill, and range from the simple crossbow to steam-powered walkers toting death-rays and everything in between. Technological Devices have a few values attached to them -

Technology Level is an indiction of how complex the item in question is. A pencil sharpener would be level 1, and a hand crossbow level 2, whereas a portal generator might be technology level 7, or a repeating black powder rifle might be technology level 5. Devices with technology levels of 9 or 10 are referred to as doomsday devices - everything else is either an invention or a contraption, usually, though particularly poor devices are sometimes called cobbles.

Malfunction Rating is an indiction of how unstable the device is. Every time the device is used, you roll a D20 - if the roll is equal to or below the Malfunction Rating, the item does something wrong. It might simply not work. Or, it could explode in your face. It really depends.

DC is the difficulty class to craft the item, which is equal to (10 + Technology Level + Miscellaneous increases (see Craft (Technological Device))).

Cost is the cost needed to craft the item. Selling it is an entirely different matter entirely, seeing as they are technically magical items...but aren't.

Technological devices, can, in theory, be used by anyone. However, they are still magical items, though they try hard not to be, and are bound by certain laws of magic. A non-Technomancer who attempts to use a technological device must deal with a Malfunction Rating increase of 10, with the result always being Catastrophic Failure. This does not apply to items with a Technology Rating of 3 or lower, which are relatively simple and may be operated by anyone. Technological devices read on detect magic and similar spells, but they seem fuzzy somehow, indistinct, as though in some kind of flux.


Craft (Technological Device)
This is a special skill that only Technomancers may take ranks in - other classes cannot learn it, no matter how hard they try. Their inventions fail to function, and often explode catastrophically. The key ability for Craft (Technological Device) is Intelligence.

-More to come later-

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-07, 12:56 PM
Looks good, Gareth. I'm interested to see more...

This could finally be a class that suits Gideon...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-07, 03:44 PM
Revision of Awakening the Earthen Dragon and a new ritual, Binding the East Wind. Two examples of power levels, the first available at 15th level, the second available at 1st level.

Some basic explanations:

Casting Time: The number of rounds it takes to perform the ritual at it's most basic level.
Extension: An extension is an optional additional round added to the casting time. The spell effect begins as soon as the first casting round is over (i.e. the end of the turn) and the effects continue to stack as the spell progresses. Eventually a critical limit is reached where no more extensions can be applied, at which point you must stop casting the ritual, and any further duration takes effect unless something says otherwise. Additionally, at any point in time after the initial casting time has been expended you may choose to cease casting the ritual and simply have it finish it's duration as usual.
Duration: The number of rounds the Ritual is in effect for. A duration of Casting means that the Ritual's effects start as soon as the initial casting time is complete. A Ritual without Casting in the duration does not have any effect until the complete casting (including any extensions added) is complete.
Saves: The save DC for a Ritual is (10 + 1/2 your Incanter level + the relevant ability modifier).
Spell Resistance: Most Rituals do not directly affect creatures, so most do not allow spell resistance. There are a few exceptions to this rule, however.

Awakening the Earthen Dragon
Destruction, Major
Casting Time: 1 round
Extension: +1 round
Area: 20ft radius
Range: Sight
Effect: When you perform this ritual the earth rises up in protest of your magicks, shaking violently in an effort to disrupt you. All creatures within a 20ft radius of the ritual must make a Reflex save each round or fall prone. Additionally, all terrain in the area is treated as being difficult terrain.
Extension I: Shards of rock begin to fly lethally through the air, dealing 6d6 points of damage a round to everything within the area of effect.
Extension II: Dust begins to fly through the air, covering the whole area in total concealment.
Extension III: Great rifts of earth open, and opponents must make a Reflex save each round (DC 18 + Your Charisma modifier) or fall into one. At the end of the ritualís duration, all foes trapped within the earth are slain instantly as the ground swallows them up. A Climb check (DC 20) is necessary to climb up from a chasm.
Extension IV: The earth erupts in a cataclysmic burst of stone and dirt. Everything within the radius of the effect takes 25d6 points of damage and must succeed on a Reflex save or be pinned under rubble, requiring a Strength check DC 20 or three rounds of digging to break free. This cuts the ritual short, ending all effects instantly.
Duration: Casting+5 rounds
Saving Throw: Ref Partial (See text)
Spell Resistance: No


Binding the East Wind
Protection, Minor
Casting Time: 1 round
Extension: +1 round
Area: 10ft radius
Range: 10ft radius centered on the Ritualist
Effect: When you perform this ritual the very winds swirl about you, creating an impenetrable barrier. All creatures within the area of effect gain a +5 bonus to Armor Class against projectile attacks coming from outside the area of effect.
Extension I: The winds pick up pace, deflecting projectiles of all shapes and sizes. All projectile attacks of under siege weapon size targeting something within the area of effect suffer a 50% miss chance. Any creature attempting to enter the area of effect must make a Fortitude save or be thrown backwards 1d4x5ft and knocked prone.
Extension II: The winds continue to grow, lifting up rubble and creating a nightmarish vortex. Any creature within a 20ft radius of the caster but not also within a 10ft radius takes 3d6 points of bludgeoning damage a round from the high speed winds.
Extension III: The winds reach a truly impossible speed, and your control of them becomes supernatural. All ranged attacks initiating outside the 10ft area of effect that would target a creature or object within the 10ft area of effect instead rebound on the attacker. This includes all ranged touch spells. The Ritualist makes an attack roll with an attack bonus equal to his Ritualist level + his Charisma modifier to see if the rebound strikes the target. A failed attack roll means that the spell goes wild, missing everything.
Extension IV: The wind shield explodes outward, sending gale force winds in every direction. Everything inside a 30ft radius area of effect but outside the 10ft area of effect must make a Fortitude save or be thrown violently 2d6x5ft and fall prone. Creatures thrown in this manner take 1d6 damage per 10ft traveled. This cuts the ritual short, ending all effects instantly.
Duration: Casting+2 rounds/level
Saving Throw: Fort Partial (See text)
Spell Resistance: No

Kai-Palin
2008-03-07, 04:37 PM
I'm liking the progressive rituals a lot. They seem balanced (to my inexpert eyes, that is).

Lord Gareth, you've misplaced the save bonuses for technomancers at 6th level.

As far as anyone knows, is there a way (in character) to determine how long someone else's spell will last, assuming the character doesn't know what level the other person is?

I was thinking as an ability that all Hermetics could create, perhaps a candle or consumable object that the character assigns to a certain detected magical effect, and the candle burns at a rate equal to the spell's duration. Does this sound good? Bad? Completely useless? And what should be the cost to create one?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-08, 12:39 PM
Some new Rituals up, spoilered to save space.

Additionally, some new casting rules.

Primary Incanting Attribute: The primary casting attribute of ritualists changes depending on the type of Ritualist. martyrs and Daemon Magi both use Charisma as their primary Incanting Attribute, while Timebenders use Wisdom as their primary Incanting Attribute. This attribute determines the DC of Rituals.

Payment: Under most normal circumstances, there is no sacrifice required to perform a Ritual. However, occasionally it is necessary to perform a more potent ritual than time would otherwise allow. This is where payment comes in. Payment is offered in the form of ability score penalties, and immediately advances casting of a ritual up to the last extension. The cost, however, is 1 point of ability damage per desired extension. This ability damage cannot be negated in any way, or the ritual fails to go off. Additionally, payment is tiring. Using payment fatigues the Ritualist for the rest of the encounter. The second use of Payment exhausts the Ritualist, and a third use of Payment knocks the Ritualist unconscious as soon as the Ritual has been performed.

Martyrs pay points of Constitution as their body pays the price of their sacrifices.
Daemon Magi pay points of Charisma as they offer their soul to abyssal powers.
Timebenders pay points of Wisdom as their minds frantically strive to understand their twisting of time itself.

It should be noted that Timebenders and Daemon Magi pay Payments using their primary Incanting attribute. This is indeed the case, and is intentional. The payment kicks in immediately upon the completion of the Ritual, meaning that the save DC for the ritual is set at the initial value of the Incanting attribute, but all further Rituals will use the new, lower attribute.

Example: Tyler Vici, a level 15 Daemon Magus, is facing a truly terrible foe. Tyler wishes to perform the ritual Extinguish the Immortal Soul and destroy his opponent completely, but he lacks the six rounds it would require to do so.

Certain that it is his only hope, Tyler takes 4 points of Charisma damage (reducing his Charisma from 21 to 17) and immediately advances the Ritual to Extension IV. Instead of taking 6 rounds to perform up to Extension IV, it now only requires two, the base cost of the Ritual. The save DC uses the initial Charisma value, and as such is 22 (10 + 1/2 Tyler's Ritualist level + Tyler's Charisma modifier). The DC for all future Rituals will be 20 (10 +1/2 Tyler's Ritualist level + Tyler's new Charisma modifier). Tyler's opponent is now in a world of trouble, but Tyler has fatigued himself and reduced his Ritual's effectiveness for future rituals. If his opponent survives Extinquish the Immortal Soul, Mr. Vici is in a difficult spot.


The Rituals

Calling the Dancing Flames
Destruction/Elementalism, Minor
Casting Time: 1 rounds
Extension: +1 rounds
Target: 1 creature
Range: Medium
Effect: Performing this ritual summons up fire from the bowels of the earth, scorching your foe with sheets of flame. Your target takes 1d4 points of fire damage/level (Ref negates).
Extension I-IV: Each additional extension raises the die type by one (d4 to d6, d6 to d8, d8 to d10, d10 to d12) and adds an additional target within range.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes


Conducting the Symphony of Destruction
Destruction, Adept
Casting Time: 1 rounds
Extension: +1 round
Area: 20ft radius, centered on the Incanter
Effect: When you perform this ritual a cacophonous eruption of hideous, crackling sound dances around you. All creatures within 20ft must make a Fortitude save or be shaken for the duration of the ritual. A successful save negates the feat effect. This is a sonic, mind-affecting fear effect.
Extension I: The sound rises to a high pitched, grating wail. All creatures within 20ft take 3d6 points of Sonic damage a round. Listen checks within the area suffer a -10 penalty.
Extension II: The screaming music drowns out all speech, and causes spellcasters to stare in horror as their very words are corrupted on their tongues. All spells with verbal components suffer a 50% failure chance if the caster is within the area of effect of this Ritual.
Extension III: The noise increases to impossible levels, ripping into the minds of those listening. All creatures within 20ft must make a Will save or fall to the ground, unable to take any actions until the end of the Ritualís duration.
Extension IV: The noise crescendos in a devastating blast of pure sonic energy. All creatures within 20ft take 1d6 points of Sonic damage/Incanter level and must succeed on a Fortitude save or be permanently deafened.
Duration: Casting + 3 rounds
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: No


Constricting the Iron Bands
Destruction, Adept
Casting Time: 1 round
Extension: +1 round
Target: One creature
Range: Close
Effect: When you perform this ritual your target is engulfed in rings of iron. He or she must make a Reflex save or be unable to take a move action for the duration of the ritual. A successful Reflex save negates all further effects of the ritual.
Extension I: The rings begin to constrict, dealing 1d4 damage per Incanter level.
Extension II: The rings begin to inhibit your opponents actions. Each round your target must make a Fortitude save or be unable to take any actions for that round.
Extension III: The rings constrict further, dealing 1d4 damage per Incanter level.
Extension IV: The rings close completely, rendering your target completely immobile for 1d4 rounds. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. This cuts the ritual short, ending all effects instantly.
Duration: Casting + 1 round/Incanter level
Saving Throw: Reflex negates, Fortitude partial (see text)
Spell Resistance: No


Crush the Physical Form
Destruction, Minor
Casting Time: 1 round
Extension: +1 round
Area: One creature
Range: Close
Effect: When you perform this ritual the target is wracked by intense pain. He or she takes a -2 penalty to all rolls for the duration of the ritual. Each round he may make a Fortitude save to ignore this penalty for one round.
Extension I: Your opponent is crippled and brought to his knees. His speed is reduced by 50% for the duration of the ritual. A successful Fortitude save reduces this to a 25% reduction.
Extension II: The pain increases dramatically. Your opponent suffers an additional -2 penalty to all rolls (-4 total) for the duration of the ritual. Each round he may make a Fortitude save to ignore this penalty for one round.
Extension III: Your opponentís body is wracked and broken. Attackers gain a +10 bonus to critical conformation rolls against him for the duration of the ritual.
Extension IV: The pain increases to impossible levels. Your opponent suffers an additional -2 penalty to all rolls (-6 total) for the duration of the ritual. Each round he may make a Fortitude save to ignore this penalty for one round.
Duration:Casting + 2 rounds/Incanter level
Saving Throw: Fortitude Partial (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes


Dance of Corrosive Rain
Destruction, Adept
Casting Time: 1 round
Extension: +1 rounds
Area: A 20ft radius centered on a point in space.
Range: Medium
Effect: When you perform this ritual the skies break open and acidic rain falls on the target area. Everything in the area takes 1d6 acid damage/2 Incanter levels per round (Reflex save for half).
Extension I: The acid scars and cripples those within the area. Any creature exposed to this extension takes 1 point of Dexterity damage and 1 point of Charisma damage per round of exposure.
Extension II: The steam from the chemical reactions rises up in a toxic cloud. Each round all creatures in the area must make a Fortitude save or be nauseated for one round. A successful save reduces this to sickened.
Extension III: The acid further scars and cripples those within the area. Any creature exposed to this extension takes 2 points of Dexterity damage and 2 points of Charisma damage per round of exposure.
Extension IV: The noxious fumes grow in potency. If a creature fails itís Fortitude save, it takes 2 points of Constitution damage in addition to being nauseated.
Duration: Casting + 1 round/Incanter level
Saving Throw: Reflex partial (see text), Fortitude partial (see text)
Spell Resistance: No


Extinguish the Immortal Soul
Necromancy, Moderate
Casting Time: 2 rounds
Extension: +1 rounds
Target: 1 creature
Range: Medium
Effect: When this ritual is completed, the targetís soul is violently ripped from their body and sent to the depths of the Abyss. Your target must make a Fortitude save or die instantly. A successful save results in your target instead gaining 1d2 negative levels.
Extension I: If your target fails his or her save, the body is consumed by black fire and reduced to ash. A successful save results in your target gaining 1d4 negative levels.
Extension II: Your targetís soul is not only torn out but is also corrupted. Anyone trying to raise or resurrect your target must first succeed on a caster level check with a DC equal to your Incanter level. A successful against the death effect save results in your target gaining 1d6 negative levels.
Extension III: Your targetís soul is not only torn out but is also destroyed. Nothing short of a Wish or Miracle spell followed by a successful resurrection spell (requiring a caster level check with a DC equal to your Incanter level) can return the target to life. A successful save results in your target gaining 1d8 negative levels.
Extension IV: Your targetís soul is not only torn out but is also obliterated. Nothing short of divine intervention can return the target to life. A successful save results in your target gaining 1d10 negative levels.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Partial (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes


Shatter the Standing Stone
Destruction, Minor
Casting Time: 1 round
Extension: +1 round
Target: One object within range.
Range: Short
Effect: When you perform this ritual, make a check using your primary Incanting attribute. If the result is above the break DC of the target object, that object shatters. If the object is in the possession of a creature or is otherwise magical, it receives a Will save to negate this effect.
Extension I-IV: For each additional extension you perform, you gain a cumulative +4 bonus to the check result.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: No



Slowing the Handís Progression
Time, Adept
Casting Time: 1 round
Extension: +1 round
Target: All allies within 60ft
Effect: When you perform this ritual, all allies within 60ft gain an additional move action each round for the duration of this ritual.
Extension I: All allies within 60ft gain a +2 Time bonus to AC for the duration of this Ritual
Extension II: When you perform this ritual, all allies within 60ft gain an additional standard action each round for the duration of this ritual. This replaces the additional move action previously granted.
Extension III: All allies within 60ft gain a +4 Time bonus to AC for the duration of this Ritual.
Extension IV: When you perform this ritual, all allies within 60ft gain an additional full-round action each round for the duration of this ritual. This replaces the additional standard action previously granted.
Duration: Casting + 2 rounds
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No



Now the reasoning:

Having each class make a sacrifice for EVERY ritual was, while flavorful, kinda nerfy from a mechanical standpoint. Usually a ritual or two was all that could be reasonably accomplished before they started to be extremely impractical. For example, when a Daemon Magus has to pay 14d4 for a ritual, he can only do that two or three times a DAY. Bit of a problem there.

Also, having so many different ways to pay for a ritual was, again, flavorful, but not balanced. Timebenders had, in the long run, the most detrimental payment (unless you're an elf), but in the short run could Nova the most. Magi could only cast a few rituals a day, and Martyrs would put themselves down for weeks at a time trying to regain ability damage.

My way, while not as flavorful, is easier overall, while still being somewhat detrimental and still bringing across some of the idea of sacrifice.

Opinions?

-The Djinn

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-08, 09:26 PM
--Deleted to save space--

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-08, 10:35 PM
I know...I'm currently trying to find a system of balanced sacrifices that doesn't make the class unplayable. The last ones were, while flavorful, a bit hard to work with balance-wise for reasons I've already stated.

I did add in sacrifices for class abilities that were in line with the old sacrifices, and you can make a Payment to cast faster (which ends up being a sacrifice like the old ones), but I'm having trouble finding a good, simple, balanced sacrifice for the Rituals themselves.

The issue with the old ones was how easily broken the system was. Martyrs had an immensely tough time of it, becoming weaker and weaker at a truly alarming rate as they drained their ability scores, which have a INCREDIBLY slow heal rate.

Daemon Magi killed themselves with only one or two rituals, and seemed to need a cleric sidekick to even function.

Sandmen, on the other hand, could go all day...until they cast themselves to an early grave and the player lost his character. Elves, on the other hand, break this class in new and interesting ways, what with their long life spans.

Therefore, a new method is needed.

Ideas?

The_Werebear
2008-03-08, 10:57 PM
A more temporary penalty might be in line. Maybe they have to make constant fortitude saves versus becoming Fatigued/Exhausted by the energy you draw from yourself.

A possible idea for the Demon Magus/Martyr is taking subdual damage instead of lethal/ability damage. For the Sandmen, temporary aging might be a solution. You age a half year or a few months/ability during the course of a battle as you pull from time itself. When the battle is done, you are suddenly 56 years older. You suffer from the physical effects of two age categories. The years wear off at the rate of Character level years per day. Oh, and it would be entirely possible to age yourself into a coma, which would take a few days to wear off as you deaged back to a reasonable point.

Kai-Palin
2008-03-08, 11:01 PM
Okay, I like the way it's set up, especially the abilities that can heal a Sacrificial Mage of his/her damage, but where did the actual sacrifice go? I think a major part of the flavor of the original class was that every magic, no matter how insignificant, required a sacrifice, and I liked that, as it lets the class be a bit more powerful than is standard, because those above-average strengths had weaknesses as well.

Essentially, what that boils down into is something like: good job, like improvements, add back in original sacrifices.

The lowered casting times is definitely good, and I like the way the extensions play out, but to make it a Sacrificial Mage it really ought to keep the sacrifices.

I vote that Autohypnosis be added as a class skill for all three subparadigms. Also, Martyrs should recieve Heal and Diplomacy or Handle Animal as a class skill, Daemon Magi should have Intimidate and Bluff, and Chronomancers should have Sense Motive (peering slightly through time to read body language) and something else (Sleight of Hand perhaps? I'm not sure). Or are those automatic skills from the original still there?

As for how to lower the sacrifices to a workable point, because I just read your reasoning, which is quite logical:

The martyr takes 1 point of physical (Str, Dex, Con) ability score damage for the activation of a Minor ritual, 2 for Adept, 3 for Moderate, and so on. This ability score damage is increased by 1 for every two extensions applied to the ritual. The martyr, empowered by her tremendous faith and the benevolence of her deity, repairs damage to herself at a fantastic rate, restoring 1 point of sacrifice-based ability damage from each physical ability score every hour. At 11th level, she recovers 2 points/hour, and upon assumption of Sacred Watcher status, 3 points/hour.

The daemon magus takes 2d6 points of damage for the activation of a Minor ritual, 3d6 for adept, 4d6 for Moderate, and so on. This damage is increased by 1d6 for every extension applied to the ritual. The daemon magus learns early in his training how to shunt pain out of his mind, and may make a Will Save with a DC equal to (10+# of d6s offered in sacrifice+# of such saves made that day) to reduce the damage done to the same number of dice, but one category lower (i.e. d6s to d4s). Perhaps if some of the Blood Sacrifice abilities increased the size of the die instead of the number of the die, at higher levels the magus could lower the die two degrees at 10th level and 3 at 20th level.

The chronomancer sacrifices prospective living time with his weaker rituals, and actual age with his powerful ones. The sandman loses a week of his life span for the activation of a Minor Ritual, two weeks for adept, three weeks for Moderate, and physically ages one week for a Major ritual, two weeks for a Supreme ritual. This penalty is increased by one week for every two extensions applied to the ritual.
The chronomancer's prospective living time is restored at a rate of 1 week of life span/day as his magic reweaves his future. Prospective living time is theoretical, merely coming from "somewhere in the mage's future," and losing it only increases the probability of a chronomancer's death. If the chronomancer has sacrificed more than one year of prospective living time, he or she is under the effect of a Curse of Impending Blades effect, while the probability of his death increases. Every time the chronomancer's sacrifice crosses the year-mark, he takes 1 point of wisdom damage that must heal normally as his psyche diverts more of its function to repairing his probable future. At 11th level, the chronomancer's magic works faster, reweaving 2 weeks/day, and at 20th level, 3 weeks/day.
Physical aging, on the other hand, does not automatically repair itself. The chronomancer ages as shown with his racial aging table, and recieves the penalties of increasing an age category (but not the benefits) whenever his ritual would send his age into a new category. In addition, if a chronomancer ages himself more than a month in any given day, he suffers a point of ability damage to each of his physical attributes.

As for the elves, can we find a magic number (somewhere around .2%) and that is the increment of days that one ages, not in a flat number of days or weeks? A percentage of one's lifetime might work better, as the Sandman's magic takes the same quality of lifespan, regardless of how long one's species lives. This means that elves don't get game-breaking benefits, but a half-orc won't kill spontaneously age himself out of existence with a single spell.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-08, 11:10 PM
All good ideas. I'll throw them into the mix I've got going...

Which is (opinions please)...

Each class has a...well...call it a "pool" of something (Life, Blood, Sand...).

This pool can hold up to 20 of whatever it is.

Performing a Ritual costs 1 point per level of the Ritual (1 for minor, 2 for moderate...up to 5 for Supreme).

At 1-4 points, you're golden. Nothing bad happens.

At 5-9 points, a Martyr is Fatigued, a Daemon Magus suffers 2d6 points of damage (upon passing 5) and takes a -1 penalty to all rolls, and a Sandman is treated as having the Middle Age penalties placed upon him (but none of the bonuses).

At 10-14 points, a Martyr suffers a Greater Fatigue, a Daemon Magus takes 4d6 points of damage and has the penalty increased to -2, and a Sandman is treated as being Old.

At 15-19 points, a Martyr is Exhausted, a Daemon Magus takes 6d6 points of damage and has the penalty increased to -3, and a Sandman is treated as being Venerable.

At 20+ points, a Martyr is Staggered and cannot perform Rituals, a Daemon Magus takes 8d6 points of damage, takes a -4 penalty, and cannot perform Rituals, and a Sandman falls unconscious.

These points would vanish at a set rate, maybe along the lines of 1/4 class level/hour or something.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-09, 12:47 AM
--Removed, to save space. The class have been updated and moved to a new thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74594)--

MorkaisChosen
2008-03-09, 10:21 AM
I like that... The costs and benefits are balanced, and I really like the idea that you can go "WHAM! Eat flamy death!" in one turn as long as you're prepared to get hit with some fairly hefty penalties...

In fact, if the right Ritual were to exist, you could get some really cinematic moments where a Martyr resurrects, fully heals and buffs Meaty McWarrior in only a few seconds, then falls lifeless to the ground, his life-energy spent...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-09, 11:00 AM
Awesome. Glad to know it has some approval so far.

Gareth--I'm going to take some initiative here (*rolls d20...gets a 14, +3 Dex bonus, +4 Improved Initiative, for a total of 21*) and, since this thread is getting cluttered, make a new thread for the Ritualist, being sure to mention the Paradigm Project and linking back this thread.

That will help us keep ourselves organized until such a time as the project is finished and can be collected in one central area.

Sound good?

-The Djinn

EDIT: The Ritualist (and the whole Sacrificial Paradigm) is now located HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4040134#post4040134).

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-09, 10:20 PM
If anyone can assist me in the creation of rituals, I'd greatly appreciate it. I've got 11 traditions to make, and each needs at least three Minor rituals, three Adept rituals, three Moderate rituals, three Major rituals, and one Supreme ritual (preferably two).

That's a TON of rituals there, even though some are reused. We're looking at about 154 rituals, and I'm not sure I can do that on my own.

If you have any, post them in the Ritualist thread (in spoiler blocks please, to avoid excess clutter).

Thanks in advance!

Lord_Gareth
2008-03-10, 06:29 AM
Gid, I love what you're doing, but I have something to get off my chest -

What the hell happened to making your own rituals?

That was...well, it was a very important aspect of it, the ability to forge your own spells that you (and the DM) could be proud of and use. I hate lists of spells - they're so damn limiting!

Aside from that, I love what you're doing ^_^ I suspect you'll likely end up going over/fixing Technomancers once I finish them up (still doing the technology writeup I am, young jedi), and then I'll need to do the Uber Fluff Post of Death, explaining the entirety of the Paradigms, how they work, and why they work. Kaylee will be factoring into this. Yes, that Kaylee.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-10, 09:23 AM
I KNEW that something seemed out of place.

I'll get on that, although it's going to be damn hard balancing such a thing.

I'll see what I can do though.

ForzaFiori
2008-03-10, 05:50 PM
Gid, I love what you're doing, but I have something to get off my chest -

What the hell happened to making your own rituals?

That was...well, it was a very important aspect of it, the ability to forge your own spells that you (and the DM) could be proud of and use. I hate lists of spells - they're so damn limiting!

Aside from that, I love what you're doing ^_^ I suspect you'll likely end up going over/fixing Technomancers once I finish them up (still doing the technology writeup I am, young jedi), and then I'll need to do the Uber Fluff Post of Death, explaining the entirety of the Paradigms, how they work, and why they work. Kaylee will be factoring into this. Yes, that Kaylee.

Why not start out with the rituals Djinn is making, but then add in rules on making your own? Even when you can make your own, many players might prefer not having to go to that trouble unless they have some great idea.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-10, 06:34 PM
That was actually largely my plan. Many of the choices would be set up in a way that would allow those rituals I've created to still function.

Lord_Gareth
2008-03-11, 06:16 AM
I fully approve of said plan, Djinn ^_^

In other news, I've hit minor snags on Technomancers, more of a balance and how-in-god's-name-do-I-word-this thing than a lack of ideas.

I'll have a few rituals proposed soon. You might wanna look at my old system for ideas on making your own rituals.

Last thing - have you seen the feats I threw up? Metamagic doesn't work on rituals, and neither do most other "spell" feats (metamagic rapes the game, it's true), so we're gonna need some feats for each Paradigm, and a few for the whole thing.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-11, 07:56 AM
And that, my friend, is why I reserved five posts on that thread. :smallbiggrin:

With regards to the Sandman's level 20 ability: Yes, it effectively means he can live forever. Elans get it, as does another prestige class (something like the Cloud Anchorite or somesuch). Given that I've yet to see maximum age affect a campaign I think it's perfectly fine. You've hit level 20...you should be the stuff of legends.

Finally, what's the problem with the technomancers? If you can write up what you've got and why you're having trouble maybe I can help whip something up.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-11, 11:44 AM
Gareth: You looking for something like this?

The effects are by no means complete or written in stone, as this system is still very much in Beta. However, I think it might have some promise if I can refine it enough.

Here are two...call them "seeds" for now.

Call to the Abyss
Minor, Adept, Moderate, Major
Incanting Time: 1 round
Extensions: +1 round
Range: Close
Minor: As Summon Monster I, except the summoning choice is made upon ritual creation and cannot be changed. Only creatures with the [evil] subtype may be summoned. Once you have incanted this ritual you may not do so again until the summoned creatures are slain, banished, or the duration has expired.
Adept: As Summon Monster III, except the summoning choice is made upon ritual creation and cannot be changed. Only creatures with the [evil] subtype may be summoned. Once you have incanted this ritual you may not do so again until the summoned creatures are slain, banished, or the duration has expired.
Moderate: As Summon Monster V, except the summoning choice is made upon ritual creation and cannot be changed. Only creatures with the [evil] subtype may be summoned. Once you have incanted this ritual you may not do so again until the summoned creatures are slain, banished, or the duration has expired.
Major: As Summon Monster VII, except the summoning choice is made upon ritual creation and cannot be changed. Only creatures with the [evil] subtype may be summoned. Once you have incanted this ritual you may not do so again until the summoned creatures are slain, banished, or the duration has expired.
Duration: 1 round/Incanting level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Extension Effects:
Greater Summons: The effective Summon Monster level is increased by 1 (Summon Monster I becomes Summon Monster II). Choose a specific summon for each extension: that extension only summons that specific choice. This extension may only be applied up to two times on any ritual.
Prolonged Servitude: The duration increases by 1 round/Incanting level.
Abyssal Strength: The summoned creatures gain a cumulative +2 bonus to Strength and Constitution. As an Adept ritual this bonus starts at +4 and increases by +2 per additional extension. As a Moderate ritual this bonus starts at +6, and as a Major ritual it starts at +8.


Call the Dancing Flames
Minor, Adept, Moderate, Major
Incanting Time: 1 round
Extensions: +1 round
Range: Medium
Minor: Deal 1d4 points of fire damage/Incanter level to a single target within range (Reflex Half).
Adept: Deal 1d4 points of fire damage/Incanter level to all creatures within a 5ft radius burst (Reflex Half).
Moderate: Deal 1d4 points of fire damage/Incanter level to all creatures within a 10ft radius burst (Reflex Half).
Major: Deal 1d4 points of fire damage/Incanter level to all creatures within a 15ft radius burst (Reflex Half).
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: No

Extension Effects:
Inferno Rising: Increase the damage dealt by one die size and add an additional target within range or increase the burst radius by 5ft.




This sort of system allows me to, as--shall we say a Moderate Ritual?--create the following using Call to the Abyss as a base and applying Calling the Dancing Flames to it (I'll explain the creation system more in-depth later).

Hell Unleashed
Diabolism, Moderate
Incanting Time: 1 round
Extensions: +1 round
Range: Close
Effect: You conjure forth a devil from the depths of Hell. A Bearded Devil is summoned in any unoccupied space within range.
Extension I: The devil appears in a flash of Hellfire, dealing 1d4 points of damage/Incanter level to everything within 5ft of it when it appears (Reflex Half).
Extension II: Your summons raise an unholy legion to answer your call. 1d3 Bearded Devils rise to your aid, each appearing in any unoccupied space within range and dealing the appropriate fire damage to everything within 5ft. This replaces the basic Effect. Damage from overlapping Hellfire bursts is ignored: a creature only takes damage once.
Extension III: The fires of hell burn hotter and brighter, dealing 1d6 points of damage/Incanter level to everything within 10ft of the summoned devils (Reflex Half). This replaces the effect of Extension I. Damage from overlapping Hellfire bursts is ignored: a creature only takes damage once.
Extension IV: A true army of the Abyss comes to your aid. 1d4+1 Bearded Devils answer your call, each appearing in any unoccupied space within range and dealing the appropriate fire damage to everything within 10ft. This replaces the effect of Extension IV. Damage from overlapping Hellfire bursts is ignored: a creature only takes damage once.
Duration: Instantaneous + 1 round/level (see text)
Saving Throw: Reflex Half (see text)
Spell Resistance: No


And now, using the same "seeds" (or whatever they will be called), we get the following:

Conjure forth the Beast
Moderate
Incanting Time: 1 round
Extensions: +1 round
Range: Close
Effect: You conjure forth a devil from the depths of Hell. A Fiendish Dire Board is summoned in any unoccupied space within range.
Extension I: You call a powerful being from a deeper layer of Hell. Instead of a Fiendish Dire Boar, your call is answered by a Fiendish Rhinoceros.
Extension II: The creature you summon is strengthened by the powers of the Abyss. It gains a +6 bonus to Strength and Constitution.
Extension III: The creature you summon is further strengthened by the powers of the Abyss. It gains a +8 bonus to Strength and Constitution. This extension replaces the previous effect.
Extension IV: The creature you summon is further strengthened by the powers of the Abyss. It gains a +10 bonus to Strength and Constitution. This extension replaces the previous effect.
Duration: 1 round/Incanting level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No


And I could go on. With only two seeds.

Look promising?

Lord_Gareth
2008-03-11, 12:17 PM
The seeds idea looks awesome ^_^

And Gid/Djinn, I wasn't referring to the fact that they are ageless. I was referring to the fact that their sacrifice is paid in years of their lives. If they have infinite years, the sacrifice means nothing.

Kai-Palin
2008-03-11, 05:47 PM
Maybe the Chronomancer hits something like a dragon, where he has more age categories? Maybe we give all chronomancers the lifespan of an elf. Or, maybe you could tell us your general plan for "aging ageless creatures" which you said you would explain 'later.' Maybe now is that later?

Uncle Festy
2008-03-11, 05:57 PM
He explains it in the new thread for The Ritualist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74594).
Oh, and may I throw my hat into the ring for making a couple of ritual seeds? I've got a couple of ideas running around in my head...

Kai-Palin
2008-03-11, 06:31 PM
Thank you for the reply, however, I think our intentions were different. I was asking Lord_Gareth for his opinion on how creatures that have an unlimited lifespan should age.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-12, 12:07 PM
He explains it in the new thread for The Ritualist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74594).
Oh, and may I throw my hat into the ring for making a couple of ritual seeds? I've got a couple of ideas running around in my head...

By all means. Toss them at me. Worst case scenario they're not what I'm looking for and we edit them. Best case scenario you've saved me some work, helped contribute in an amazing way, and given us ideas for new ones.

Go for it!

Uncle Festy
2008-03-12, 01:03 PM
Woosh!
Ok, here's the first idea. Prepare to correct all the things I'm doing wrong:


Call the Storm
Minor, Adept, Moderate
Incanting Time: 1 round
Extensions: +1 round
Range: 40 ft radius column centered on caster
Minor: A storm cloud forms around the caster, raining down around him. The rain obscures vision and makes footing unstable, granting a 10% miss chance to all attacks and a Grease effect within the area.
Adept: The rain becomes thicker, throwing up mist from the ground. As Minor, but the miss chance increases to 25%.
Moderate: The storm is as intense as it will get. It is nearly impossible to aim attacks, and small, thunderous booms emit from the storm clouds above.As Adept, but the miss chance increases to 30%, and at the beginning of each round, everyone in the area takes 1d4 sonic damage/2 incanting levels.
Duration: Extension +1 round/Incanting level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Extension Effects:
Lightning Strike: Each time you use this extension, a lightning bolt flies down from the cloud, as Call Lightning. The first time you use this extension, it deals 1d4 electric damage/incanter level, the second time, it deals 1d6 electric damage/incanter level, the third time, it deals 1d8 electric damage/incanter level, and the fourth time, it deals 1d6 electric damage/incanter level, and is accompanied by a sonic boom that deals 1d4/incanter level sonic damage in a 10 ft. cylinder centered on the lightning bolt. This extension may not be taken more than 4 times.
Obscuring Deluge: Each time you take this extension, the miss chance granted by the incantation increases by 10%, to a maximum of 50% (total concealment).
Solid Rain: If you take this extension, it becomes difficult to move within the area of the Incantation, as Solid Fog. This incantation may only be taken once, and may only be applied to an Adept or greater Incantation.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-12, 01:15 PM
Quiet good, except that the damage options shouldn't be there. Those would be accomplished by adding in other seeds, such as a Elementalism variant of Calling the Dancing Flames that lets you choose the elements.

Also, the duration should be Casting + 1 round/Incanting level

Finally, you could probably get away with 20%, 30%, 40%, and finally 50%. Rituals are pretty strong since they have so many downsides.

Nice one though. Keep up the good work.

Uncle Festy
2008-03-12, 02:03 PM
Thank you!
Ok, so if I cut the damage from the Moderate version, I don't really know what would replace it. I also don't know what could go into the Major version, other then the solid fog effect. Also, if I do that, I no longer have any extensions (as the second one is kinda useless once the spell naturally goes up to 50% concealment... do you think I could get away with having it max at 70% miss chance?) Wait, just had an idea for another extension. What if, for each extension, you could summon a Defenestrating Sphere (as the CAr spell)? I'll skim my books for some more. Maybe something where the air lifts you up in the storm area, giving you a fly speed within it...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-12, 02:49 PM
That's the sort of thing we're looking for. Effects that couldn't be easily duplicated by other "seeds." But include anything you think of.

After all, we can always remove the effect if we think it would make a better seed. And that would give us a whole new seed, so consider it a benefit rather than a downside.

Also, I see no problem about having Minor 20%, Adept 30%, Moderate 40%, Major 50%, and a cap at 70% for miss chances.

Vadin
2008-03-12, 03:22 PM
Djinn- Hate to step on your toes, but...

maybe the seeds could be a bit more...generic?


For example, changing the Call to the Abyss seed with a more generic Calling seed, changing the sentence about the monster needing to be evil to: "You may only summon creatures whose alignments are within no more than one step away from you on the Law-Chaos and Good-Evil axis."

Following this, we could have a true neutral diabolist who could summon anything, but a chaotic evil one who can anything as long as it isn't good or lawful.

The law-chaos axis could be changed (I'm not really a fan of it anyways) so that particular axis doesn't matter.

Or is summoning going to be restricted to diabolists (who will in turn be restricted to summoning evil creatures?)? If this is the case, disregard my suggestion and keep up the good work!

MorkaisChosen
2008-03-12, 03:29 PM
Martyrs summoning Angels would work thematically, I think.

Celestials, even...

Vadin
2008-03-12, 03:32 PM
Seconded, but I can't seem to find the list of which subparadigms have access to which groups of rituals at the moment...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-12, 03:32 PM
One step ahead of both of you. The Martyr's Summoning seed is from the Spiritualism tradition, which is...you guessed it...the exact opposite of Diabolism.

Summoning angels etc...anything with the [Good] subtype.

Even if a seed in a different tradition is almost exactly the same it's going to be renamed to fit the proper tradition, since even minor changes alter how the rituals can be assembled. For example, Elementalism will have something that's almost EXACTLY Calling the Dancing Flames, but allows for Fire, Electricity, Cold, or Acid damage.

Did that help clear up my motives behind having such specific seeds?

Vadin
2008-03-12, 03:36 PM
Somewhat, yes, though I wonder if some of those traditions might get a tad too specific.

How many schools are there going to be, what will each one cover, and who will have access to them?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-12, 03:38 PM
Sorry, my bad. The tradition list is located HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74594), under Traditions, and also (more concisely) under the first spoiler box for the Ritualist class itself.

Here. I'll post it here as well, to make life easier for all of us.

Martyrs gain access to the traditions of Essence, Radiance, Spiritualism, and Warding.

Daemon Magi gain access to the traditions of Destruction, Diabolism, Elementalism, and Necromancy.

Sandmen gain access to the traditions of Essence, Foretelling, Peregrination, and Time.

The descriptions themselves are under the Traditions heading.

puppyavenger
2008-03-20, 06:21 PM
1. no love for neutral summoners?
2. any news on the technomancer?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-03-20, 11:46 PM
No love for neutral summoners at the moment...possibly later, if another tradition strikes me, but I doubt it.

Anyway, my part of this project is postponed until at least March 31st, as my incredibly long and complicated college essay was recently assigned, and is due on that date. After that, I'll probably relax a bit, then buckle down and complete the Ritualist.

Just a heads up for you all.

-The Djinn

Lord_Gareth
2008-03-24, 11:30 AM
No, there's no love for nuetral summoners until the Hermetics come along, with their fruity capes and prestidigitation ^_^

Technomancer Update
Progress is poor and slow, due to the frustration of building a crafting system that can make items equivalent to magic, but reuseable, without breaking the entire game open. I'm considering going back and editing my drafts of the Subparadigms while I fight with this.

Lord_Gareth
2008-03-31, 01:32 PM
Bump for various Project members ^_^

FireSpark
2008-04-24, 01:28 PM
This project of yours looks fascinating Lord Gareth, and I would love to contribute if I could. However, I am finding it difficult to pinpoint what goes with what, and who is where.

Perhaps this could be my first contribution? Mayhaps a summary of all work that has been done thus far, compiled into as few posts as possible?

I admit, it would take some time to go through all the posts and sift through what has been kept or discarded.

Any other suggestions where I could leap in?

Lord_Gareth
2008-04-25, 05:57 AM
A summary would be awesome to the eightieth degree. Aside from that, I've hit major, Tarrasque-sized snags on the casting system for Technomancers. I've been waiting for Djinn to get back, 'cause he's good at the odd problems, but I'll accept help from any quarter.

FireSpark
2008-04-25, 06:13 AM
A summary would be awesome to the eightieth degree. Aside from that, I've hit major, Tarrasque-sized snags on the casting system for Technomancers. I've been waiting for Djinn to get back, 'cause he's good at the odd problems, but I'll accept help from any quarter.

Very well then. This weekend I will do my best to sift through the thread, pulling out all the information that has been finalized (in the loosest sense of the word of course). Once done, I'll post it here, and how you want to display it then (move to first post, start new thread) I'll leave to you.

Then I'll see where I can best be of use, concept-wise.

Lord_Gareth
2008-04-25, 06:24 AM
THANK YOU!

This project /will/ get rolling again!

Also, wouldja mind taking a look at the Angel of Death PrC? If you act quickly, it'll still be on the front page (only other thread made by me that is).

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-04-25, 10:45 AM
The Djinn is back.

Also, Ritual Magic is under way, but creating a system of balanced and functional ritual magic is proving harder than I expected, so there will be a delay. It's still going along though, so have no fears. :smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth
2008-04-25, 11:49 AM
*Gareth comes flying out of nowhere and tackleglomps Djinn*

YOU'RE BACK! Do you know how much I've been slamming my head against the wall trying to figure out this Technomancer problem???

As to rituals - have you checked my old model? I'm sure there's flaws, but it might serve as a jumping-off point.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-04-25, 12:00 PM
*falls backwards, then struggles up and pats Gareth's back in a comforting manner*

Far to long I'm sure. That poor, poor, defenseless wall...:smallbiggrin:

And yes, I have checked the old model. I'm just trying (for balance sake...and to allow more variation) to create a sort of "point-buy" system for the rituals, and I'm still in the process of determining a good ratio for the different levels of rituals.

And if the Techomancers are giving you a hard time, I'm here to bounce ideas off of. Have at it!

Lord_Gareth
2008-04-25, 12:07 PM
Alright, here's the idea I have in my head -

Technomancers create inventions based on various branches of "science". These are called Devices. Every device has an Activation Action, Effect, Power Source, Malfunction Rating and Technology Level.

Example - A Longsword is a Technology Level 1 Device that requires a standard or full-round action to use. It deals 1d8 + power source damage, and is powered by its users Strength modifier. It has a Malfunction Rating of 1.

The more complex a device is, the higher the Technology Level, up to 10 (Doomsday Devices). As a rule, larger, more complex devices are sickeningly expensive and require patience and dedication.

And that's where my ideas stall out. I don't know how to STAT it from here!

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-04-25, 12:14 PM
Take a look at THIS (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=297060). It's a similar idea that might inspire you. Another idea is to look at the Deadlands Mad Science system, which deals with creating strange items.

The problem with this sort of class, however, is the number of possibilities. You'll find it impossible to stat out everything you want, meaning it will largely be DM dependent, which might pose a serious problem.

Define what you want a little more...do you want a specific range of effects (easier to stat) or a more free-form, "do-whatever-you-want" system (nigh-impossible to right up rules for)?

FireSpark
2008-04-25, 12:53 PM
THANK YOU!

This project /will/ get rolling again!

Also, wouldja mind taking a look at the Angel of Death PrC? If you act quickly, it'll still be on the front page (only other thread made by me that is).

Of course. I love poking holes in critiquing others hard work. :smallbiggrin:

But I appear to be having trouble finding it. Any chance you could provide a link?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-04-25, 12:55 PM
Here you go. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78788)

:smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth
2008-04-25, 02:04 PM
I'm thinking that it'll be similar to designing a ritual, actually - something you use set "seeds" for. The Blueprints themselves have limits, and supertechnology can't break those, but there should definitely be space for "WHAT HAS SCIENCE DOOOOONE?" here.

For example - the Weaponry blueprint deals in explosives, "mundane" weaponry, weaponmaking techniques, and weapon modification. It creates guns.

Mad Science, on the other hand, runs the gamut from disintegration rays to half-mechanical, half-flesh monstrosities.

See Girl Genius Online for TONS of inspiration ^_^

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-04-25, 02:38 PM
Hmmm...well, in that case, I think you probably need a list of effects. A fairly comprehensive list.

That's gonna be irritating to do...

FireSpark
2008-04-26, 10:19 AM
By the gods, what have I done?

Okay, so maybe my estimates of working up a summary-type-thing in a single weekend were a bit, uniformed.

After gathering together everything I suppose to be pertinent (excluding the two entirely seperate threads created by DiT), I have gathered over 30+ pages of raw data. 0_o!!

This may take a little more time to format than I had originally planned.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-04-26, 10:50 AM
Heh...sorry about that. The Ritualist alone (if included) counts for about...oh...14 of those. :smallbiggrin:

Moff Chumley
2008-04-26, 12:41 PM
Wow. This is AWSOME. Great job, Gareth and Djinn (I haven't seen you in ages). I am not at all good with crunch, but I am good at bizarre ideas and fluff. Heres an idea I've been toying with for a while: The Imaginer.

The Imaginer
How do you know there's no rhinoceros in the room? Of course there is, and I can prove it. *Rhino appears*[/I] What do you mean, thats impossible? Wait, what rhinoceros?[/I]
Magic stems from will. In almost all cases, this will is channeled through the mind. However, some strong willed individuals who have received some kind of trauma, or other mind shattering or life altering event cast spells not from their mind, but from their imagination. From the traumatic event in their past, there bonds to reality are weakened. Their mind is dominated by their imagination, and within their mind, the only truth is what they envision. As their will grows, and as they learn the art, the are capable of manifesting their will in the material world. If an Imaginer believes that he is holding a fireball, who's to say that he isn't? If an Imaginer denies that he's been stabbed through the heart, what's to stop his body from believing him? The only thing that can stop an Imaginer from manifesting his will unto the world is his belief in himself. Or his sanity.

Please feel free to embellish, criticize, or otherwise improve. I am glad to be a part of this project.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-04-26, 05:35 PM
Hmmm...since that has the potential to be quite powerful, it would probably be best at conjuration and illusions, since it could otherwise do almost everything.

An interesting concept though, and one that would be a lot of fun to work with. :smallbiggrin:

Moff Chumley
2008-04-26, 07:11 PM
It really kind of got away from me. Originally, I had planned it to be a mage that deluded himself into thinking that whatever he's doing is possible, but it mutated as I wrote and revised. The way I imagine the class working is that the character has a limited amount of "delusion points" that fluctuate based on certain factors, and whenever he casts a spell, he must check against the Delusion DC or risk losing magical ability for a while. Obviously very imperfect, but it's a start.

Lord_Gareth
2008-04-27, 02:04 PM
It's too pure.

Allow me to explain. The Paradigms are very similar to those from Mage: The Ascension. The power comes from this aboslute belief in something. A mage can't exist without being totally and completely aware of themselves because they know something that no one else does. Their minds simply aren't strong enough to handle the knowledge that it's THEM doing this and not the object of their obsession (that's for an epic level PrC). The Delusionist you just described isn't possible because it's too pure. It's absolute, raw belief, and the 1-20 power scale just isn't ready for that.

However, a Mind-based fastcaster /would/ be nice...

tarkisflux
2008-05-02, 06:03 PM
Finished reading through the mountains of work you've already put into this (which I imagine will be a lovely continental mountain range when it gets completed), and I like what you're doing with it.

Had a thought about your Technomancer problem, but I wanted to see if it's even relevant first... and just in case it needs to be said, feel free to ignore/disregard/mock any of my suggestions.

It looks like you're trying to make a class that crafts it's magical abilities, using science and whatnot to augment the magical force that they're (unknowingly) pouring into their creations. If that's true and you're really stuck, might want to take a look at the Gnomish Artificer PrC in Magic of Faerun (nothing to do with Eberron's Artificer). It won't work at all as written, but it does deal with non-magical magical items that require recharging, and it does so in a way that made sense to me back when I read it. The device powers the class got might also make sense as starting points for device seeds for the tech classes. Or it could be a big waste of your time, cause nothing's easy when you're reworking magic :smallamused:

(Full disclosure: a pc in one of my games took that class a while back, and subsequently made a featherfall cape (neck/belt slots) that choked you a bit while it was in use, joybuzzer gauntlets, and eventually lightning bolt firing rods attached to a backpack {he liked Ghostbusters} for everyone in the party. Point is, my memory of it might be a bit rosier than the reality :smallbiggrin:)

But even if that's not what you're going for, I think GIT's right and you might be best served by listing abilities out, or at least listing generic seeds for them and filing the various levels later. Your longsword example looks like a good example of a final item, but starting with a list of those would kill the openness foster creativity of the class.

To me, it sounds like a group of classes that would be well served with bludgeoning, piercing, or force direct damage effects, direct transmutations, maybe some personal conjurations like teleport, some aoe sonic or elemental stuff (burst explosions, line electricity, spray/cones of acid, etc), and the ability to tie them all together into something monstrous. As long as the seed levels are fairly constant, adding up the levels of seed stuff going into an item should provide a fair idea of the power of the item, it's subsequent cost, and an easy way to cap creations.

Example: Explosion I does 2d6 fire/bludgeoning damage in a 10' radius; Delay I makes any effect happen the round after it was triggered; Hurl Object I makes launches something a predetermined range. So, using a "Hurl Object" seed, "Delay" seed, and an "Explosion" seed, you could make a mortar that fired grenades into combat indirectly and exploded at the start of next round. If you are making them craft this, add in the 3 lvl 1 seeds and you have a lvl 3 device that costs whatever that costs, and is hopefully balanced against every other level 3 device they could make. Or make them craft the ammunition (a lvl 2 device) seperately from the firing mechanism (a lvl 1). If you wanted to restrict access to stuff, giving seeds the tech levels you mentioned works well. Not sure where power sources fits into a picture like this though...

As to balance, the nice thing about craft classes is that they can't make what they can't afford in time or gold. The big things that they do make are all limited resources, and in making them they take time away from making a larger number of less powerful devices that would give them more uses. Since you said you wanted them to hit hard and less often, I think that's about right in line.

Of course, if you're not actually thinking of a craft class, this is all moot.

Moff Chumley
2008-05-04, 01:57 PM
It's too pure.

Allow me to explain. The Paradigms are very similar to those from Mage: The Ascension. The power comes from this aboslute belief in something. A mage can't exist without being totally and completely aware of themselves because they know something that no one else does. Their minds simply aren't strong enough to handle the knowledge that it's THEM doing this and not the object of their obsession (that's for an epic level PrC). The Delusionist you just described isn't possible because it's too pure. It's absolute, raw belief, and the 1-20 power scale just isn't ready for that.

However, a Mind-based fastcaster /would/ be nice...

Alright. With that in mind, perhaps have them not be aware of what they're doing? Or possibly have them be a weaker version of some martial class that once in a while use some odd, reality bending ability. Any fluffy changes you can think of in this direction might be a good substitute if any of your subsequent ideas don't work?

Lord_Gareth
2008-05-06, 06:27 AM
@Tarkis - Yeah, they're crafters, to the point where I'm going to write up the stats for using a wrench as a weapon. Any ideas on that line are TOTALLY welcome ^_^

@Moff - I'll suggest some alterations later.

Now, to school!

Lord_Gareth
2008-05-06, 09:50 AM
Actually, what you want, Moff, is for them to know exactly what they're doing.

Channelers, if you remember, use their power spontaenously. Their belief in something is directed, or channeled, through something quick-and-dirty that gets them results right damn now. So, what I'm thinking for your idea would be a Chaneler subparadigm like this -

Grayminds
"You think, therefore I am."

It's all fake. You know it, your friend knows it, and even the beasts know it. The reality in front of your eyes is no more or less real than the phantasmal threads of dreaming or the fleeting touch of hope. The multiverse is a projection of sentient thought - and the Grayminds know it.

Grayminds believe with a terrifying intensity that everything you see, hear, touch, taste, smell, and feel is a projection of your own mind, and they prove it by warping perceptions around them. Illusionists without peer and mind benders extraordinaire, Grayminds seek to free people of their preconcived notions of "real" and unreal.

At their best, Grayminds can enlighten people, allowing them to think about the true nature of "real" and their own existence. Their paradigm of conceptual reality often encourages cooperation and kindness for a better "real" than the one that the Graymind lives in. At their worst, Grayminds are horrid monstrosities, capable of shattering minds and leaving behind entire regions so thickly coated in illusion and misperception that they become uninhabitable to intelligent life.

In the cracks of the mind, the Grayminds wait, with wonders such as you could never imagine - and horrors, as well.

Nonanonymous
2008-05-12, 09:54 PM
As for the technomancers, a few things that might serve as seeds to begin with are:
Simple/direct weapons: Things that work like basically everything else in the weapons categories of equipment lists in books, some with energy damage, and some with special status inflicting abilities, others with nothing more than shoving pointy objects at people.
Spray guns: Things that squirt cones of acid damage, contact poisons, and even healing salves.
Constructs/steam-powered mecha: Basically just constructs that can have any of the other inventions attached if you've already built the other items, as well as a 'cockpit' area to let you control it directly and use it like a mount.
Bombs/rockets: Imitation fireballs, probably with variable energy damages.
Status effect guns: Reduce person guns, anyone?

A few other things I thought of were things that acted like dominate person, view thoughts, and darkvision that had to be worn to get any effects from them.

I can see why you're in a snag about this, where to begin as far as how these should cost and be written rules-wise is really difficult.

EDIT: Hmm, I guess those things were all covered by blueprints weren't they?

Another EDIT: D20 Past has a Scientist advanced class that's somewhat similar, they make a certain number of 'discoveries' from one level to the next, which duplicate spell effects of various kinds. They have an XP cost of (discovery level x scientist level x 30) and spend (discovery level x scientist level x 5) days to create the item to use it. It doesn't really have anything relevant to the actual cost needed to make an item though.

tarkisflux
2008-05-15, 08:34 PM
Been staring at the subpardigms for the technomancer on and off for the last week, specifically the blueprint parts, and I think they're unreasonably seperated. It strikes me as an artificial barrier that's going to limit/eliminate any interesting cross-over devices and cause the designers (us) to do a LOT more work to make the various options feel fully fleshed out.

So I suggest making them more like specialist wizards than seperate classes. In long, I suggest the following :smallamused:


Boost skill points to 4 + int
Add Disable Device to their class list {This is really a personal preference, but it seems fitting and they can handle it with more skill points. Open lock seems like a stretch though; also note that it won't put the thief out of a job since they don't get the trapfinding class ability}
Remove Craft (Technological Device) {To allow cross subparadigm dipping while retaining primary focus, this needs to be split up into a skill for each sub-para... hopefully this makes more sense in a second...}
Add Craft (Combustion Device) to the Black Powder Master class list
Add Craft (Electrical Device) to the Madboy class list
Add Craft (Cosmic Device) to the Ethernaught class list

Don't give them free ranks in anything anymore, the bonus skill points will take care of that and allow them to keep their skills up.

Just like with Alchemy, require anyone who takes ranks in one of those Craft skills to have at least one level of technomancer. That'll keep the uninitiated out of the field. If you require each blueprint group to require one of the craft skills above, you're not going to see lots of abuse on that, and it opens up lots of inceresting crafting options...

Which brings me to blueprints. Give each subparadigm a set of 3 primary blueprint groups like we have now, but also give them one from each of the other sub-paras and allow them to research new blueprints from them (never gained for free or at level up). Maybe create a feat that allows them access to another group.

What we've got now is a system that does sort of damage the distinct flavor of each subgroup in terms of craftables (not substantially I'd argue, but it's still there), without touching the flavor still retained in their subpara abilities (which I think also need tweaking, but one thing at a time...). You can add in effects from outside your focus, but the mods to the skills you need to do it won't be great except at high levels (where it shouldn't matter much). Et voila, expanded crafting horrizon without sacrificing much flavor. This setup sort of benefits the Madboy, since their int bonus will allow them to keep up with 3 craft skills more easily, but that seems rather in line with my image of the madboy.

As to the Blueprint groups, I wanted to define them a little more clearly, since I can't find that anywhere else...

Blueprints:
Explosives (Pri: Black Powder Master): The explosives group of blueprints deals primarily with explosions. Big, small, firey, concussive, and occasionally even sticky or smelly burst effects are contained herein. Creating devices from blueprints in the explosives group requires Craft (Combustion Device) checks.

Clank (Pri: Madboy): The clank group of blueprints holds wonderful designs and additions for a Madboy's best friend. Creating devices from blueprints in the clank group requires Craft (Electrical Device) checks. {I think the Clank is intended to be like a familiar or an eberron artificer's homonculus, but I'm unsure, hence the fuzziness here}

Mad Science (Pri: Madboy): The mad science group of blueprints is often associated with maniacal laughter. Among those who actually utilize these blueprints, it is associated with effects that turn things into rather different things, alter the minds of the living, animate the dead, and create other interesting effects. Creating devices from blueprints in the mad science group requires Craft (Electrical Device) checks. {This category probably needs to be toned down a bit, cause it's a big undefined catchall for everything that doesn't nicely fit in the others. That might be intentional, but a bit of clarification/critique would be helpful}

Mechanical Walkers (Pri: Black Powder Master): The mechanical walker group of blueprints are intended for the Technomancer on the go (or under military contract). The blueprints here show how to create mecahnical devices to carry your supplies, your larger weapons, or even yourself. Creating devices from blueprints in the mechanical walkers group requires Craft (Combustion Device) checks.

Portal (Pri: Ethernaught): The portal group of blueprints are intended for those who wish to visit strange and exotic locales, even those that aren't on the same world. Devices in this category generally transport someone or something from one point to another, though they can also be used to call aid from afar. Creating devices from blueprints in the mechanical walkers group requires Craft (Cosmic Device) checks.

Projection (Pri: Ethernaught): The blueprints in the projection group deal with invisible force effects. Created by utilizing planar energies, these effects can insulate a user from physical harm, protect from heat or other energy, or be sent forth to pierce enemies. Creating a device using blueprints from the projection group requires Craft (Cosmic Device) checks. {Formerly Protection, hope it's clear why I renamed it.}

Steampunk (Pri: Madboy): The steampunk set of blueprints concern themselves with the taming of lightning. Devices in this group utilize lightning to hurl at enemies, or as power for a more arcane purpose. Creating a device using blueprints from the steampunk group requires Craft (Electrical Device) checks.

Warp (Pri: Ethernaught): The warp group of blueprints show how to create devices that warp the rules or reality. Poisonous substances or undead creatures in a radius might start to radiate light, a persons eyes might attune themselves to darkness, time might run faster or slower, even gravity could be redirected with help from these blueprints. Crafting a device using blueprints from the warp group requires Craft (Cosmic Device) checks. {Sorta extended the warp group so it wouldn't tread on the portal group}

Weaponry (Pri: Black Powder Master): The weaponry group of blueprints contains a wide assortment of impliments of personal destruction, for your enemies at any rate. Generally propelled objects, this group includes a wide assortment of firearms, mortars, and more exotic devices for hurling death at those who oppose you from a safe distance. Creating devices from blueprints in the weaponry group requires Craft (Combustion Device) checks.

I've got some ideas on how to do Craft (Tech Stuff) in general, I'll toss them up later. Enough typing for now...

Moff Chumley
2008-05-18, 05:16 PM
Lord Gareth, that's perfect. Much more refined than my idea, but where did the name come from? And if you can point me in the right direction, I can probably do a bit of homebrew.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-05-19, 01:06 AM
Just for the record, I haven't given up on the Ritualist (despite the G6 project I've got underway). It's just that I still haven't found a good system to balance ritual creation. As soon as I've found one, things will start to appear.

Lord_Gareth
2008-05-19, 06:22 AM
Tarkis, I love you and want you for my 'netwife.

(Kidding - my girlfriend would kill me anyway).

Seriously, though, that idea works for the Subparadigms, which are likely going to be picked up and edited by someone eventually. My first drafts tend to be full of great ideas that are cripplingly flawed.

@Moff - If the entire world is fake, good and evil don't exist, just shades of gray. Hence, Grayminds.

Nonanonymous
2008-05-20, 09:15 PM
So, which blueprints and sub-paradigms would work best for unleashing this on a fantasy setting?
http://uk.games-workshop.com/orks/gallery/images/ghazghkul_art.jpghttp://uk.games-workshop.com/orks/gallery/images/deff_dred_art.jpghttp://uk.games-workshop.com/orks/gallery/images/warbuggy_art.jpghttp://uk.games-workshop.com/orks/gallery/images/art/lootas_art.jpg
:smallwink:
And as much as I like your ideas Tarkis, I'm seeing the specification of everything being either based on combustion, electricity, or cosmic powers a bit lacking, it needs something in the way of hydraulics, methinks.

tarkisflux
2008-05-21, 01:40 PM
Those would be some combination of Mechanized Walker and Weapon blueprints. On top of creating them, you'd need to pay for fuel and ammunition and all that other fun stuff. It'd be expensive, but so completely worth it to siege a castle all by yourself.


And as much as I like your ideas Tarkis, I'm seeing the specification of everything being either based on combustion, electricity, or cosmic powers a bit lacking, it needs something in the way of hydraulics, methinks.

Yeah, I thought the same thing when I was writing it up before. I decided against it for a couple reasons:

1) I sorta rolled everything that they needed into the craft skills, then gave them names that represented the power sources they'd be using for most of their devices. I suppose I could have been less specific and used Craft (Ethernaught Device), but I didn't like the feel of it. It might be a good idea to rename them though, because the skills really do embody a lot.

I don't imagine that the Weapons group of blueprints and the Craft (Combustion Device) skill makes a BPMaster a very competant metalsmith and wood worker. But it does give them the ability to construct guns, ones that don't foul every time they're fired because the barrel isn't perfect and whose grips/stocks don't break/splinter under the recoil stress. I figure they just know what they need, and they have the materials made to their specifications by someone who knows how to make those things, just like a normal crafter mage goes out and buys all of his components. If the skill does allow them to craft these things, so much the better, but it doesn't need to. It just needs to allow them to source parts and put them together properly.

2) I can really only see the Mech Walker group needing it, though maybe Clank and Mad Science would use it to. It's an entirely seperate skill that would only be useful for maybe three groups. They already have to invest skill points in one skill, and have to invest points in others if they want to make cross paradigm devices (like an intelligent version of your pics by mixing in Clank). I thought it unreasonable to add yet another skill for them that would only be necessary for some of their work. Plus, the Ethernauts would get a clear advantage in that case, since none of their primaries need it.

I guess we could do a seperate skill for each blueprint group (which I did not consider when I thought up the changes), but they'd need 2 more skill points per level to keep up and things might get a bit obnoxious. It would severely limit cross subpara work though, and might differentiate characters in the same subparadigm a bit more... it's something to think about anyway...

tarkisflux
2008-06-02, 06:14 PM
^Bump^

This had fallen to page 3, and that's not cool :smallwink:.

So no thoughts on separate craft skills for the different blueprint groups? Anyone?

I've done some more work to clean up the technomancer's sub para abilities and have some examples for the craft(tech stuff) mechanics, but I got distracted by 4E 'review' copies and Paizo's Pathfinder RPG (http://paizo.com/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8253). I'll get it up in the next few days, I promise . :smallbiggrin:

Lord_Gareth
2008-06-03, 06:04 AM
I think that the Black Powder Master's craft skill can be summed up by Craft (Heavy Weaponry), which covers the walkers, the guns, and the big, big booms.

I think we'll have more suggestions and ideas once your fix is up ^_^

Is anyone else disturbed that whatever I put up needs to be cleaned up and redone by someone else?

Lord_Gareth
2008-06-26, 01:02 PM
Bump ^_^

And someone unstreatch my page!

Lord_Gareth
2008-08-19, 11:02 PM
I'm here to announce that I'm more or less retreating from the GitP forums. However, this project, contrary to any evidence, isn't dead - it's just been moved to here (http://plothook.net/RPG/forumdisplay.php?f=1477), on Plothook.net (http://plothook.net/RPG/index.php). Look me up as DM Prince of Knives!

thevorpalbunny
2008-08-19, 11:09 PM
I might have to sign up for those forums so I can contribute. . .

But what's wrong with these forums, anyway?

Lord_Gareth
2008-08-19, 11:14 PM
Nothing, actually, but Plothook has greater coding utility, a larger community, and I've become a firmly entrenched member of said community. GitP's base tends to be...infrequent, at best, and necroing threads here is rather difficult; doing so is unnecessary on Plothook.