PDA

View Full Version : An Underutilized Spell: Improvisation



Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 03:25 PM
Improvisation
Transmutation
Level: Bard 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
You gain access to a floating "pool" of luck, which manifests as bonus points you can use as desired to improve your odds of success at various tasks. This bonus pool consists of 2 points per caster level, which you can spend as you like to improve attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks, although no single check can receive a bonus greater than one-half your caster level. You must declare any bonus point usage before the appropriate roll is made.

Used points disappear from the pool, and any points remaining when the spell ends are wasted.

These points count as luck bonuses for purposes of stacking.

For example, a 14th-level bard pauses while chasing a pickpocket to cast improvisation. At any time during the next 14 rounds, he could use the points to provide him a +7 luck bonus on a Spot check, a +7 luck bonus on a Climb check, and a +7 luck bonus on two of his attacks.

Material Component: A pair of dice.

I think this is an incredibly good spell, and I don't see why it's not mentioned more often. Anyone agree/disagree with me?

Behold_the_Void
2008-02-05, 03:31 PM
That IS a rather nice spell.

sonofzeal
2008-02-05, 03:31 PM
I think this is an incredibly good spell, and I don't see why it's not mentioned more often. Anyone agree/disagree with me?
Awesome spell! I see this being UMD'd like crazy.

Edit - hold on, 1 round/level? That's not very nice... It'll be good for high level bards, but high level bards are either (in my experience) brokenly powerful or completely useless. This'll help the "useless" ones though.

I just wish the Factotum could "Arcane Dilettante" it.

AKA_Bait
2008-02-05, 03:32 PM
I... wow... I'd never even read that spell. Oh the cheeze with Glibness...

Voyager_I
2008-02-05, 03:32 PM
Not so great at lower levels, but it would definitely come into its own later on...

bosssmiley
2008-02-05, 03:33 PM
Ooooh, now that is a good spell. Nice buff for the skill monkeys. The bonuses granted aren't quite in crazytown, but the pool element of it may be a little too flexible for a 1st level spell.

I'd just worry about the potential for abuse with (relatively cheap for a 1st level spell) wands. Even worse: Eberron/MIC's infinite wands.

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 03:34 PM
Not so great at lower levels, but it would definitely come into its own later on...

Well, you could use something like an Arcanist's Glove on it for a CL boost. S'what my Hexblade's going to do.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-02-05, 03:37 PM
It has probably been overlooked because it is a Bard spell...

The good thing about using a wand for this is that you do not risk accidentally using your lucky dice as component. :smallwink:

Arbitrarity
2008-02-05, 04:12 PM
Wait, first level?

*retrains furiously*

FinalJustice
2008-02-05, 04:18 PM
That's one hell of a find. Thank you. =D
Now, you can cheese it with Surge of Fortune (Complete Cheese, why am I not surprised), for your Sure-Vorpalization Cleric Cheese. A matter of finding out how a Cleric can put his hands on this.

Solo
2008-02-05, 04:25 PM
Ok, we have got to find a way to let other classes have this spell.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-02-05, 04:27 PM
Ok, we have got to find a way to let other classes have this spell.

A monk could use a Wand of Improvisation with UMD...

Worira
2008-02-05, 04:28 PM
Miracle works, if you don't mind blowing a 9th level spell on a first.

martyboy74
2008-02-05, 04:29 PM
Ok, we have got to find a way to let other classes have this spell.

Customize Domain. Done.

Rutee
2008-02-05, 04:30 PM
This seems like a spell that really only suits Bards to begin with.. :P

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 04:30 PM
Ok, we have got to find a way to let other classes have this spell.

Prestige Bard dip? Mystic Theurge? Fochlucan Lyrist? Customize Domain (Luck)? Ultimate Magus?

Burley
2008-02-05, 04:36 PM
Warlock! Eh? Eh? Yes!
Yet again, a class that apparently sucks at everything can do anything.

So, uh, yeah. Have a Wand of Improvisation, give it to the Bard or Warlock, and let them tap you.

Or, there is the all powerful potion...

Cruiser1
2008-02-05, 04:37 PM
This spell isn't that overpowered, because it doesn't last long. Hence you can't cast it as a buff before combat (unless it's an ambush you're about to initiate) since it will wear off by the time you need it. In that respect it's simliar to True Strike, i.e. a nice bonus but rarely cast within combat since you lose a turn to get the bonus. That said, outside of combat this is a great spell, i.e. when you use it in social situations and the like for skill bonuses.

Craig1f
2008-02-05, 04:41 PM
The spell looks very useful, but given the short duration, you'll have to cast it in combat, not before combat. And a bard is better used bolstering the party than bolstering themselves.

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 04:42 PM
The spell looks very useful, but given the short duration, you'll have to cast it in combat, not before combat. And a bard is better used bolstering the party than bolstering themselves.

You could certainly cast it during the surprise round.

RTGoodman
2008-02-05, 04:43 PM
The only problem with making potions/wands of inspiration is that it's gonna be a lot more expensive to get them with a bigger pool, since you have to pay for the increased caster level. Unless you make it yourself, I suppose.

Draz74
2008-02-05, 04:46 PM
Problem with all the plans to UMD this spell is: Wands are pretty expensive, even if they're L1 spells, if they have a high caster level. And this spell is only good with a high caster level.

Solo
2008-02-05, 04:50 PM
Prestige Bard dip? Mystic Theurge? Fochlucan Lyrist? Customize Domain (Luck)? Ultimate Magus?

Chameleon?

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 04:51 PM
Chameleon?

CHAMELEON.

As if they weren't awesome enough already.

Burley
2008-02-05, 05:07 PM
CHAMELEON.

As if they weren't awesome enough already.

"Oh, Chameleon. Is there anything you can't do?"
Share the spotlight. :tongue:

Lochar
2008-02-05, 05:15 PM
"Oh, Chameleon. Is there anything you can't do?"

Take feats that actually require them to have the ability, instead of just mimic it?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-02-05, 05:17 PM
Karma karma karma karma karma chameleon
You come and go
You come and go

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 05:21 PM
Karma karma karma karma karma chameleon
You come and go
You come and go

...don't quit your day job.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-02-05, 05:27 PM
...don't quit your day job.

Awwww, that hurt Fax. It almost felt like I was Back Stabbed, but luckily you cannot do that to Beholders, so I guess I am good.... I just need some popcorn down at the Culture Club.

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 05:28 PM
I think your antimagic field from your eyeball is interfering with your magical voice.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-02-05, 05:33 PM
I think your antimagic field from your eyeball is interfering with your magical voice.

Maybe that is it! :smallbiggrin:

Who do you suggest I Charm to do my oratory performances in the future (It has to be someone who can cast Improvisation obviously)? :smallcool:

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 05:37 PM
...I just got a horrible, awful, incredible idea.

Use your standard cleric ZOMGCasterLevels tricks. Now, add in the Luck domain. Take Customize Domain, and slot Improvisation into your first level domain slot. Now DMM Persist Improvisation.

I have a large pool of luck points I can spend whenever I like over the course of the next 24 hours.

martyboy74
2008-02-05, 05:47 PM
The best part is that there's no limit to the number of points that you can spend at once. Who needs a natural 20 when you can get a +40 luck bonus?

Chronos
2008-02-05, 05:47 PM
I think that is his day job. Aren't beholders nocturnal?

A few other things to note: First, this is a personal spell. So you can't make it into potions, and the bard can't use it to buff the party's skillmonkey. Fortunately, the bard himself is also a skillmonkey, so he can still put it to use.

Second, as a first-level spell, it's easy to apply metamagic to it. Even without DMM or other cheese, you could quicken it the old-fashioned way with a reasonable-level spell slot, and lesser metamagic rods are cheaper than the regular ones. Well, if you can get around the spontaneous slow metamagic thing, at least.

Third, since it can apply to skill or ability checks, not just to attack rolls, you can use it outside of combat (when time is not a concern). Even at relatively low levels, the duration is enough to search a door for traps, disarm them, and unlock the door, with some luck left over if there happens to be something lurking on the other side of the door.

Worira
2008-02-05, 05:48 PM
One-half your caster level.

martyboy74
2008-02-05, 05:51 PM
Correct you are. My bad.

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 05:52 PM
The best part is that there's no limit to the number of points that you can spend at once. Who needs a natural 20 when you can get a +40 luck bonus?

There is: up to a maximum of half your caster level per die roll. So you've got to spread the luck over at least four rolls.

In other news, would Empower count the size of the pool as a "variable, numeric effect"?

Reinboom
2008-02-05, 05:57 PM
Variable, I believe, means something that is variable at the time of casting. So, a dice roll.

Extra Spell by RAW would get it as well. Depends on the DM.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-02-05, 05:58 PM
In other news, would Empower count the size of the pool as a "variable, numeric effect"?

I am afraid not. Random variables only aka die rolls.

I liked teh other cheese though. :smallwink:


EDIT: I eat a cat girl and/or sing every time I get ninja'ed! :smallsigh:

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 06:07 PM
Damn. Well, how else could one metamagic this to make it more interesting? Quicken is obvious. Intensify wouldn't work (unfortunately). Heighten, perhaps? Retributive might be interesting: you hit me and I get a pool of luck points. Extend has purpose, definitely.

Starbuck_II
2008-02-05, 06:10 PM
How about a staff of Improvization?

Staffs let you use caster level correct? Technically caster is a clas feature at least. Thus DC Caster + 20 needed.

So with UMD can you fake having a higher caster than the Staff? So to fake 14 caster need 34.

So a caster 8 staff would cost: 3000 gp.
So 6000 to buy.

That is a decent price. If UMD lets you fake a higher caster: Staffs get really good.
Assuming caster 8 though: You get 16 points: with 4 useable per use (thus 4 full uses).

Arbitrarity
2008-02-05, 06:14 PM
If I ate through them very rapidly, Repeat might work. Twin... might, if the pools stack.

Hm... factotum/chameleon...

Cast a spell, and you can actually duplicate the full cunning knowlege, albeit with only 10 levels in factotum. Mmmmm...

Illiterate Scribe
2008-02-05, 06:17 PM
Alack, I was going to say that this would work quite well with the cosmic descryer + delay death trick, but I realise that they can do it anyway. :smallfrown:

Anyway, Fax, I'm amazed that this has only just been noticed over here - it's been a traditional solution to the Truespeaking problem over at gleemax for a while.

Fax Celestis
2008-02-05, 06:22 PM
Anyway, Fax, I'm amazed that this has only just been noticed over here - it's been a traditional solution to the Truespeaking problem over at gleemax for a while.

That's the problem with sectors of the Tubes.

TempusCCK
2008-02-05, 06:25 PM
Artificer could create scrolls of it ridiculously easy.

Chronos
2008-02-05, 06:27 PM
Heighten, perhaps?You could, but I'm not seeing what the benefit would be. Heighten just increases the spell's level, which so far as I'm seeing, doesn't affect this spell at all (it's mostly for raising save DCs). It doesn't increase the caster level.

There is some other feat similar to Heighten that I've seen in the Killer Gnome builds which does increase CL, but I don't know the specifics of that one.


Anyway, Fax, I'm amazed that this has only just been noticed over here - it's been a traditional solution to the Truespeaking problem over at gleemax for a while.The problem there is that you then have to get a high caster level Improvisation and high ranks in True Speech, which would seem to work at cross purposes to each other. I guess you could UMD a high CL wand of Improvisation (do Truespeakers get UMD?), but if you're paying that much for your wand, you might as well just get wands of directly useful spells, and skip the Truespeaking entirely.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-02-05, 06:28 PM
The problem there is that you then have to get a high caster level Improvisation and high ranks in True Speech, which would seem to work at cross purposes to each other. I guess you could UMD a high CL wand of Improvisation (do Truespeakers get UMD?), but if you're paying that much for your wand, you might as well just get wands of directly useful spells, and skip the Truespeaking entirely.

Meh, one uses every resource one can to bump that check up.

Prometheus
2008-02-05, 09:11 PM
It never says whether you have to decide what types of bonuses when you cast the spell, or as you go along. Even if it is the former, it still has its uses.

Beren One-Hand
2008-02-06, 12:00 AM
You want to know why it is an underutilized spell?
Because it really is a 5th-level bard spell. :smalltongue:

In 3.0 (Song and Silence) it was a 5th-level bard spell, but it didn't have a limit to the number of points you could use at a time.

Then comes 3.5 (Complete Adventurer), and it's still a 5th-level bard spell, but with a limit of 1/2 your caster level at a time.

Then comes the Spell Compendium trying to convince everyone it should have been a 1st-level bard spell all along. :smallsmile:

Chronos
2008-02-06, 12:06 AM
Meh, one uses every resource one can to bump that check up.Yes, but how? There's no class which both has Truenaming as a class skill and advances CL for the Improvisation. If you take levels in Bard (or equivalent) and pump Truenaming cross-class, you gain half your bard level from the spell, and half your bard level from the cross-class ranks, the same as if you had stayed in Truenamer for those levels and put in full ranks.

Reinboom
2008-02-06, 12:10 AM
Yes, but how? There's no class which both has Truenaming as a class skill and advances CL for the Improvisation. If you take levels in Bard (or equivalent) and pump Truenaming cross-class, you gain half your bard level from the spell, and half your bard level from the cross-class ranks, the same as if you had stayed in Truenamer for those levels and put in full ranks.

Practiced Spellcaster and similar? :smalltongue:

UglyPanda
2008-02-06, 12:15 AM
I always liked this spell and wondered why people rarely used it. It's got a pretty short duration, though. Which skills can be quickly used four times in a row and make actual use out of huge bonuses? UMD? Tumble? Truenaming in a gestalt? Forget that last one, bad idea. You can always blow it all on a full attack when you absolutely, positively have to hit.

However, it's still a luck bonus. The fact that it stacks with equipment bonuses makes it beautiful.

Indon
2008-02-06, 10:06 AM
You want to know why it is an underutilized spell?
Because it really is a 5th-level bard spell. :smalltongue:


That would indeed explain it. But we have it now, which means it's ours.

A Bard gish could use it with Leap Attack to add to his jump check, then add to his attack.

Edit: And is there a way a Bard could cast his spells as Divine spells (though I guess with no way to Turn Undead, that usefulness is limited without a one-level dip in a turning class and plenty of Nightstick cheese)?

Illiterate Scribe
2008-02-06, 10:55 AM
That would indeed explain it. But we have it now, which means it's ours.

A Bard gish could use it with Leap Attack to add to his jump check, then add to his attack.

Edit: And is there a way a Bard could cast his spells as Divine spells (though I guess with no way to Turn Undead, that usefulness is limited without a one-level dip in a turning class and plenty of Nightstick cheese)?

Divine Bard? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard)

EDIT:I AM A NINJA OF DEIFIC SKILL. :smalltongue:

Duke of URL
2008-02-06, 10:55 AM
Divine Bard (UA) will let you cast Bard spells as divine.

Edit: Bloody ninjas!!!

Solo
2008-02-07, 01:40 AM
I was discussing the possibility of this with a friend today, and wanted to see if this is possible.

The build so far is a Bard build, with the Bardic Knack alternate class feature, and the feat Jack of All Trades, combined with the first level bard spell Improvisation

Jack of All Trades effectively gives you half a rank in all skills for the purposes of skill checks, while Bardic Knack allows you to add half hisclass level rounded down as a modifier to any skill you roll. On top of that, Improvisation gives another bonus of half his caster level.



He will be the ultimate skill monkey. If it can be done with a skill, he can do it.


His signature weapon will be a roll of duct tape.

He is... MacGyver!

Aerogoat
2008-02-07, 02:06 AM
The build so far is a Bard build, with the Bardic Knack alternate class feature, and the feat Jack of All Trades...No dice:

...If the skill doesn't allow untrained checks, you must have at least 1 actual rank to attempt the check.
It probably won't take too much effort for a Bard to put a single rank in most "trained only" skills, but there's no reason to use Jack of All Trades here.

Cuddly
2008-02-07, 02:19 AM
You want to know why it is an underutilized spell?
Because it really is a 5th-level bard spell. :smalltongue:

In 3.0 (Song and Silence) it was a 5th-level bard spell, but it didn't have a limit to the number of points you could use at a time.

Then comes 3.5 (Complete Adventurer), and it's still a 5th-level bard spell, but with a limit of 1/2 your caster level at a time.

Then comes the Spell Compendium trying to convince everyone it should have been a 1st-level bard spell all along. :smallsmile:

Beat me to the pie.

Solo
2008-02-07, 09:35 AM
No dice:

It probably won't take too much effort for a Bard to put a single rank in most "trained only" skills, but there's no reason to use Jack of All Trades here.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#jackOfAllTrades

Jack Of All Trades [General]
Prerequisite

You must be at least 6th level.
Benefit

You can use any skill untrained, even those that normally require training.

I looked it up on the SRD and this is what I got.

RTGoodman
2008-02-07, 11:13 AM
I looked it up on the SRD and this is what I got.

I think he was referring to Bardic Knack not letting you use skills untrained unless you had real ranks in it.

Jack of All Trades was updated in Complete Adventurer (the one in the SRD is from some 3.0 source, I think), and it actually says the following:


You can use each skill as if you had 1/2 rank in that skill. This benefit allows you to attempt checks with skills that normally don't allow untrained skill checks (such as Decipher Script and Knowledge).

Also, the requirements are much easier to meet for the CAd version.

Beren One-Hand
2008-02-07, 12:42 PM
Another problem with the Bardic Knack aproach to skills is that you can't Take 10 when using the skill, so you roll range (not counting your stat bonus or any other bonuses) is 11 to 30. You can use this spell to up your bonus, but that would allow only 4 checks resulting 21 to 41 - Good, but still having a 50+ % chance of missing those checks above DC 30.

cupkeyk
2008-02-07, 01:25 PM
My bard uses this with bardic knack for half my bard levels in ranks + the improvisation bonus to be able to do just about anything.

Draz74
2008-02-07, 01:26 PM
Truenamers do get UMD as a class skill, so the only problem with having them use this spell to improve their Truespeak checks is that they'd need wands with a high built-in CL. Which are probably pretty hard to find.

Bards can also get Truespeak as a class skill easily, just by taking the Truespeech Training feat. So making a bard with a good Truespeak check and also a high Bard CL (for Improvisation) is easy. The problem is, without levels in Truenamer or a similar PrC, he can't do anything with his high Truespeak checks. (I thought this was actually one of the biggest, dumbest problems with the whole Truenaming system.)

Fax Celestis
2008-02-07, 01:30 PM
Bards can also get Truespeak as a class skill easily, just by taking the Truespeech Training feat. So making a bard with a good Truespeak check and also a high Bard CL (for Improvisation) is easy. The problem is, without levels in Truenamer or a similar PrC, he can't do anything with his high Truespeak checks. (I thought this was actually one of the biggest, dumbest problems with the whole Truenaming system.)

He can cast spells with a Truespeak component, of which there are several at the end of the Truespeak chapter. Some of them are rather potent (such as unnaming).

EDIT: In fact, a bard would get access to expunge the supernatural, spurn the supernatural, truename dispel, scramble true position, beckon person/monster, horror of the spoken name, and augment truefriend, some of which are actually really rather useful.

Starbuck_II
2008-02-07, 02:41 PM
He can cast spells with a Truespeak component, of which there are several at the end of the Truespeak chapter. Some of them are rather potent (such as unnaming).

EDIT: In fact, a bard would get access to expunge the supernatural, spurn the supernatural, truename dispel, scramble true position, beckon person/monster, horror of the spoken name, and augment truefriend, some of which are actually really rather useful.

Still sad that Truespeak skill is better for Non-Truename class people.

RTGoodman
2008-02-07, 04:06 PM
Still sad that Truespeak skill is better for Non-Truename class people.

That was the first way I realized how bad the Truenamer actually is - the only ability I wanted to play one for, unname, isn't actually a Truenamer ability, but instead is a 9th level Sor/Wiz spell! :smallsigh:

Fax Celestis
2008-02-07, 04:09 PM
That was the first way I realized how bad the Truenamer actually is - the only ability I wanted to play one for, unname, isn't actually a Truenamer ability, but instead is a 9th level Sor/Wiz spell! :smallsigh:

Well, there's also that PrC (Bereft, I believe) that works its way to the unname spell over time.

RTGoodman
2008-02-07, 04:38 PM
Well, there's also that PrC (Bereft, I believe) that works its way to the unname spell over time.

Yeah, but it seems to me to be a weaker version. You have to use it on something you're within touch range of, it has to already be dead, it costs you 100 XP (not much, but still sucks), and you can't use it against undead.

The spell can target undead (unless I'm missing something), doesn't require XP, has a longer range, and the creature can still be at full health (though it does cost you a 9th level spell slot). Seems like a perfect way to take out a lich - surely an epic (or nigh-epic) undead spellcaster is pretty famous, so finding his personal truename shouldn't be too hard, and the "Unnamed" sidebar seems to indicate that nothing can live through the situation, so no respawning for the lich. (I'd say this is closer to RAI than RAW, though.)

The only two advantages of the Bereft's version is you don't have the know the personal truename (which could be a problem for the Sor/Wiz version), and there's no save (though the thing already has to be dead).


But, I'm afraid that's slightly off topic. I will admit, truenaming or not, inspiration's a pretty good spell. Just goes to show me how much I need to pick up SpC.

Yakk
2008-02-07, 05:06 PM
It destroys dice. That's just wrong.