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ArenaManager
2008-02-15, 10:44 AM
Arena Tournament, Round 30: Elethiomel vs. RedMoon

Map

http://www.maj.com/gallery/chau2/DDStuff/arena2i.gif


XP Award: 600 XP
GP Award: 600 GP

Maurkov - Elethiomel (http://www.thetangledweb.net/addon.php?addon=Profiler&page=view_char&cid=4219)
RedMoon - Bronz (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=26818)

All combatants, please roll initiative.

Bronz
2008-02-15, 02:12 PM
Hmm. Obviously still might buy equipment.

[roll0]

Maurkov
2008-02-15, 03:24 PM
Sell: Large Battleaxe +10 gp

Purchase:
Large Dwarven Waraxe 60 gp
Scroll of Enlarge Person 25 gp
Scroll of Mirror Image 150 gp
Scribe Scroll of Mage Armor (12.5 gp and 1xp)

Spell Selection
0 Daze
0 Daze
0 Detect Magic
0 Resistance
(0) Mage Hand
1 Sleep
1 Sleep
1 Color Spray
1 Reduce Person
(1) Expeditious Retreat

Init is 9+, so let me know when you're finished shopping.

Bronz
2008-02-15, 04:05 PM
Purchases:
Potion of Blindsight
Potion of Protection from Evil level 2


Start: Y10 with Javelin and potion in hand.

Good luck.

Maurkov
2008-02-15, 04:34 PM
Elethiomel round 1

Starting in B11 holding a scroll. Move to E14 (breaking LoS).complete move to G14 (30'). Cast Reduce Person. [roll0].

Scroll is Obscuring Mist.
Done.

statuslocation G14. AC 16 HP 8 Spells: Reduce Person[20]

Bronz
2008-02-15, 04:54 PM
RedMoon - second in round 1


Move: Move from Y10 to S18
Standard: If LoS is established, throw a javelin. If not, drink potion in hand (blindsight)

[roll0] Subtract for range accordingly
[roll1]


And since Maurkov will undoubtedly roll hide and move silently every move he makes, here are passive spots and listens, just so they're not zero.
[roll2]
[roll3]



Stats!

HP: 21
AC: 17
Current Buffs: Maybe Blindsight
Current Location: S18

Bronz
2008-02-15, 05:06 PM
Forgot to say that's the end of my turn, but we need an LoS check.

Also, servers are getting bogged down, so hard to post.

Maurkov
2008-02-15, 05:29 PM
Elethiomel [roll0] [roll1]. Anything?

Mavian
2008-02-15, 11:00 PM
@Redmoon

No LoS


@Etheiomel

You see Redmoon move to S18 and drink a potion

Maurkov
2008-02-15, 11:47 PM
Elethiomel round 2

Free Action: Enhance Attribute: INT
Not an action: [roll0]
Standard Action: Ready an action. If he approaches to 30', cast Daze and 5' step to G13
done.

statuslocation G14. AC 16 HP 8 Spells: Reduce Person[19], Enhance Attribute[10]

Bigmac
2008-02-16, 10:35 AM
RedMoon
No LoS

Elethiomel
No change from last update

Bronz
2008-02-16, 11:14 AM
RedMoon - second in round 2


5' step to T19. Draw potion of protection from evil. Drink potion.


passive spot and listen:
[roll0]
[roll1]



Edit: Done


Stats!

HP: 21
AC: 17
Current Buffs: Blindsight 2/50, Protection from Evil 1/20
Current Location: T19

Maurkov
2008-02-16, 11:41 AM
Elethiomel reactive sense checks[roll0] [roll1]

Talic
2008-02-16, 11:51 AM
@Redmoon

No LoS


@Elethomiel

You see Redmoon move to T19, barely visible (needed a ruler), and drink another potion.

Note, that once LOS is established, you maintain it, for as long as you have uninterrupted LoS to the target. No need to roll spot checks unless you lose sight of him.

Maurkov
2008-02-16, 09:31 PM
Elethiomel round 3

Start casting Sleep.

Done.

statuslocation G14. AC16 HP8 spells: reduce person[18]; Enhance Attribute[9]

@TalicBy tracing from the SW corner of Elethomel's square, he has LoS to everything row 15 and south. I roll because if his move took him out of sight it could require a check, and I save time by making it now. It doesn't hurt to make him think I don't know where he is.

Bigmac
2008-02-16, 09:57 PM
RedMoon
You hear the sounds of casting somewhere, but can't discern the location. No LoS though.

Elethiomel
Just put this here so you could have an LoS update too and not feel left out.

Redmoon is up

Bronz
2008-02-17, 01:06 AM
@refs

Is the casting still on-going or is it over (ie full-round cast or standard action)

Bayar
2008-02-17, 06:00 AM
Ref Bayar

@Bronz:
The casting sound is on-going

Bronz
2008-02-17, 11:09 AM
RedMoon - second in round 2


Excellent.

Move: Move from T19 to P19. Jump (from running start) and land in L19 (autosuccess), then finish move at J18.

Rest of turn dependent on LoS.



passive spot and listen:
[roll0]
[roll1]



Not done.


Stats!

HP: 21
AC: 17
Current Buffs: Blindsight 2/50, Protection from Evil 1/20
Current Location: T19

Bigmac
2008-02-18, 01:22 AM
RedMoon
You sense (yea blindsense) Elethiomel in G14, and he seems to be smaller than when he started the match.

Bronz
2008-02-18, 10:44 AM
RedMoon - second in round 2 - cont'd


Since I have blindsight, I actually see Elethiomel.
Free: Shut my eyes.


Free: Rage
Standard: Throw Javelin
[roll0]
[roll1]




End turn.


Stats!

HP: 21
AC: 17
Current Buffs: Blindsight 2/50, Protection from Evil 1/20
Current Location: T19

Maurkov
2008-02-18, 11:18 AM
Where is RedMoon throwing from? If E has cover, that's a miss, and we can likely rap this up w/o additional ref input.

Bronz
2008-02-18, 01:03 PM
Redmoon is throwing from J18. It seems E just barely has cover from that attack, so it's a miss and E's turn.

Mavian
2008-02-18, 01:18 PM
Ref Mav:

E is in G14, R is in J18, and you each know where the other one is.

Maurkov
2008-02-18, 02:26 PM
Elethiomel round 4

Elethiomel completes his spell (Sleep, Will DC 17). If RedMoon falls, Elethiomel will wait 10 rounds, draw and cast his enlarge person scroll, approach, draw the axe and administer a coup de grace. Otherwise, he will approach to 15' and cast Colorspray (again, Will DC 17). If RedMoon falls, Elethiomel will skip the enlarge person step and go straight for the axe and coup de grace. If RedMoon makes both saves, Elethiomel will lose, most likely.

[roll0] or
[roll1]

Bronz
2008-02-18, 04:14 PM
@refs

As RM is effected by prot from evil sleep has no effect but will roll the will save for when prot from evil expires
[roll0]

Also, his eyes are closed, and is therefore unaffected by colorspray but I am not sure if E can see that or if he just does what is listed because he said it.

I will move forward with my turn when this is ruled on.


Just need a quick check and we can move forward.

Mavian
2008-02-18, 04:32 PM
High Ref Mav:

@Bronz

Warning: Incoming Wallo'Text


Protection from x doesn't actually prevent sleep from affecting you. The second part of the description is the pertinent part in this debate.



Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of alignment.


The thing is, the spell only prevents affects that provide Ongoing Control over the target, not spells that simply make you fall asleep. The sleep spell provides no mention of any form of control, hence why I do not believe it would be affected by Protection from X spells.

Bronz
2008-02-18, 04:40 PM
@refs

Two points. First: sleep is an ongoing effect or control. It is not instantaneous and has a duration of 1/min per level. It is forced sleep for a period of time.
Second: It is specifically Enchantment(Compulsion), which is explicitly stated in the wall of text you so handily provided.

I can't see why it would NOT work.

Maurkov
2008-02-18, 05:06 PM
Is the question whether Pro Evil provides immunity to all charm [compulsion] effects?

Bronz
2008-02-18, 06:41 PM
Not necessarily all, but yes that's the question. Sleep is a durational Enchantment(compulsion) effect, and is explicitly (in my view) covered by prot from evil (which I drank obviously).

Maurkov
2008-02-18, 08:29 PM
SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm)
Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person).... If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature.

I don't think sleep grants the same sort of ongoing control as dominate person. I guess we'll need a high ref.

Mavian
2008-02-18, 09:38 PM
This was taken from the FAQ, which means as Kyeudo has suggested earlier, that it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.



What exactly does the second effect of protection from evil do, anyway?

The Sage feels your pain. While the first and third effects of protection from evil are relatively straightforward, the second is less clear. The key phrase that defines this particular effect of the spell is as follows: “ . . . the barrier blocks any attempt to . . . exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject . . .).”

(The spell also blocks attempts to possess the creature, but effects that accomplish this are so few as to barely be worth mentioning.)

The first part of this phrase describes the basic criteria by which the DM should judge protection from evil’s effect: If the incoming effect attempts to exercise mental control over the creature, protection from evil likely suppresses that effect. The parenthetical portion of the phrase provides two specific examples (pointed, obviously, at rules elements of the Player’s Handbook) to help judge what exactly is meant by that:

1. Enchantment (charm) effects. Simple enough--protection from evil automatically suppresses any enchantment (charm) effect, such as charm person or enthrall.
2. Enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject. This is where adjudication gets trickier, because you have to decide what “ongoing control” means. The Sage recommends a broad definition, which includes any non-instantaneous effect that prevents the target from exercising full control over its own actions.

Examples would include the obvious (such as command or dominate person), but also the less obvious, such as daze, sleep, and Tasha’s hideous laughter. Such effects would be suppressed for as long as protection from evil lasts on the target.

There are still plenty of enchantment (compulsion) effects that don’t grant the caster ongoing control over the subject. Heroism, crushing despair, mind fog, power word blind, rage, and touch of idiocy are examples. Protection from evil has no effect on such spells.

But what about mental control effects that aren’t enchantment effects, such as psionics? In such cases, the DM must use the rules and his own best judgment in concert to adjudicate the effect. Psionic powers of the telepathy discipline are the equivalent of enchantment spells, for example, and thus are affected in the same way. Nonspell effects that closely mimic enchantment spells should be treated as if they were spells of the appropriate subschool (charm or compulsion).


So it appears that Protection from Evil is the best Arena spell in existence. Cause who doesn't want a first level spell that can completely nullify whole builds. It's not like wizards are that good anyway :smallamused:

Maurkov
2008-02-18, 10:09 PM
Any really overpowered spell has to be range: personal to prevent the hoi polloi from using it via potion. Therefore, the Sage's recommendation of a broad interpretation must be mistaken. QED.

Bronz, how about you make the second save first and we can maybe finish the match without waiting for the big K to rule?

Kyeudo
2008-02-18, 10:10 PM
GM Kyeudo



2. Enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject. This is where adjudication gets trickier, because you have to decide what “ongoing control” means. The Sage recommends a broad definition, which includes any non-instantaneous effect that prevents the target from exercising full control over its own actions.


The Sage suggests taking a broad definition, but that is a recomendation for non-compeditive, home play. Here in the Arena, we have enough rules lawyers, such as Mavian here :smallwink:, that not following the rules to the letter would be disasterous, and so a stricter reading is needed.

Our definition of ongoing control will be this: Any non-instantaneous effect that prevents the target from exercising full control over its own actions and allows the source of the effect to influence the choices of the target.

Sleep does not count as ongoing control, because while it may force sleep (depriving one of full control over your own actions), it does not allow your opponent to make you do anything or make it easier for your opponent to make you do anything. It merely causes you to sleep. One could even make a fairly strong case that one does not awaken at the end of the sleep spell, but instead the spell simply stops enforcing sleep on the victim at its end.

Sorry, but Protection from Evil needs to have its limits.

Bronz
2008-02-18, 10:11 PM
This was taken from the FAQ, which means as Kyeudo has suggested earlier, that it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.



So it appears that Protection from Evil is the best Arena spell in existence. Cause who doesn't want a first level spell that can completely nullify whole builds. It's not like wizards are that good anyway :smallamused:

That's exactly why I've been using it against any type of Wizard. Hell, with BlueMoon vs. Kalder I used it to nullify Incite (though that was a happenstance)

Although we do need a ruling on my second question.

Bronz
2008-02-18, 10:15 PM
GM Kyeudo



The Sage suggests taking a broad definition, but that is a recomendation for non-compeditive, home play. Here in the Arena, we have enough rules lawyers, such as Mavian here :smallwink:, that not following the rules to the letter would be disasterous, and so a stricter reading is needed.

Our definition of ongoing control will be this: Any non-instantaneous effect that prevents the target from exercising full control over its own actions and allows the source of the effect to influence the choices of the target.

Sleep does not count as ongoing control, because while it may force sleep (depriving one of full control over your own actions), it does not allow your opponent to make you do anything or make it easier for your opponent to make you do anything. It merely causes you to sleep. One could even make a fairly strong case that one does not awaken at the end of the sleep spell, but instead the spell simply stops enforcing sleep on the victim at its end.

Sorry, but Protection from Evil needs to have its limits.

@Kyeudo
It is a TIME oriented spell, not an instaneous one. So by your very definition of exercising control sleep is considered under the purview of protection from evil.

So essentially we are nullifying the RAW so prevent something from happening? I don't like this at all. We have gone to rulings on RAW forever.

I have to call BS on this. It is enchantment compulsion, time oriented, uncontrollable by the target, AND is in the FAQ! How are we going against this?

And since RedMoon has his eyes closed Maurkov, he isnt saving against color spray, that was for my second question.

And if this is REALLY how this is, I want to call for a rematch. I was going by rules as written, and fairly, and was basing tactics fully off of that. You think I would charge headlong into a sleep spell for fun?

Edit: This would be made into a house rule, which we have fervently stayed away from. I don't know why we would change the way we do things in the middle of a match. The rules state one thing, and the ruling is going the other way. Kyeudo, if you don't like Protection from X so much why not just ban the stupid thing. At least that would be in line with other rulings. This just goes against the grain of everything we've done for 30 rounds.

chilepepper
2008-02-18, 11:47 PM
ref chilepepper
edit-nevermind

Maurkov
2008-02-19, 12:24 AM
I'd like a ruling on the colorspray, too. Does closing your eyes really make you "sightless?" A blindness spell, blindfold, or visorless helmet might work, but it's not like a gaze attack. You can't avert your eyes for a 50/50.

Talic
2008-02-19, 01:33 AM
Initiate Ref Talic



Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect.

Relevant portion bolded, and provided in context.

Sleep is not an enchantment(compulsion) effect that grants ongoing control over the subject. It is not affected by Protection from Evil.

edit: ninja'd! Glad my answer agreed with Kyeudo. Bad my internet
connection sucks.

edit2: Sleep does not allow the caster to influence the choices of the target, beyond the exact text of the spell. It enforces a single, unchangeable action. By the same token, Confusion would not be protected, as the caster has no ONGOING control. After the spell is cast, even the caster cannot change your character's actions. They are beyond his control.

Also, I'd personally rule that if you're willing to give everything total concealment to you, you should be immune to sight based effects, instead taking the more severe blindness effect. The decision to do so would last until your next opportunity to act. That last part would actually need a high ref to rule on, though. The initial part is supported by RAW.

Bronz
2008-02-19, 01:39 AM
What is it about a durational COMPULSION to sleep that people are not getting? Sleep is NOT instantaneous. It has a duration. You are COMPELLED to sleep for that duration, and therefore CONTROLLED against your will.

The school of magic, the wording, and the freaking FAQ agree with me. Every bit of logic says that sleep is exactly the kind of thing that prot. from X protects against.

It is RAW, twice over, and should not be changed. Banned? Maybe. But not changed.

Talic
2008-02-19, 01:42 AM
What is it about a durational COMPULSION to sleep that people are not getting? Sleep is NOT instantaneous. It has a duration. You are COMPELLED to sleep for that duration, and therefore CONTROLLED against your will.

The school of magic, the wording, and the freaking FAQ agree with me. Every bit of logic says that sleep is exactly the kind of thing that prot. from X protects against.

It is RAW, twice over, and should not be changed. Banned? Maybe. But not changed.

Yes, you are compelled to do something. In that, the caster exercises temporary control over your actions. That control occurs at the instant the spell is cast. Beyond that, the caster has no control over your ability to act, any more than you do. Thus, the control is not ongoing. If the compulsion effect does not grant ONGOING control, then it is not covered by Prot from evil.

Edit: If sleep were dismissable, you'd have a case, as then the caster could control whether you woke up. It is not, however. Still, this is just a reasoning of WHY it falls in line with Kyeudo's ruling above.

Mavian
2008-02-19, 01:55 AM
The things about the FAQ is that it itself says that what Prot Evil affects is explicitly up to DM interpretation, and I can see this argument going both ways, heck, I could argue it in both ways.

Pro Protection from X:

Sleep is as Bronz has stated, a mind affecting enchantment spell of the compulsion subschool. The FAQ itself states that under a broad view of the secondary effects of the spell, it delays the effect of the sleep spell

Anti Protection from X:

Taking a broad brush when trying to delineate what spells it actually counters, makes it much more powerful in this context than any 1st level spell has a right to be. The FAQ itself states that Protection from X's protection from Compulsion spells is up to the purview of the DM.


@Also Talic, Go back and read my post from Yesterday at 3:22 pm. I ninja'd you almost word for word.

Talic
2008-02-19, 02:02 AM
The things about the FAQ is that it itself says that what Prot Evil affects is explicitly up to DM interpretation, and I can see this argument going both ways, heck, I could argue it in both ways.

Pro Protection from X:

Sleep is as Bronz has stated, a mind affecting enchantment spell of the compulsion subschool. The FAQ itself states that under a broad view of the secondary effects of the spell, it delays the effect of the sleep spell

Anti Protection from X:

Taking a broad brush when trying to delineate what spells it actually counters, makes it much more powerful in this context than any 1st level spell has a right to be. The FAQ itself states that Protection from X's protection from Compulsion spells is up to the purview of the DM.


@Also Talic, Go back and read my post from Yesterday at 3:22 pm. I ninja'd you almost word for word.

Yeah, darn me and not clicking on page 2. I feel like belkar when he failed a spot check. I'm too easy to ninja.

Maurkov
2008-02-19, 04:26 AM
Please excuse my previous flippancy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3957981&postcount=33). I don't expect to mollify you, Bronz, but I'll try to explain my reasoning:

Is sleep "ongoing control?" The SRD text does not say that waking the sleeper ends the spell. Can the caster will the subject back to sleep again during the duration? If so, that would be ongoing.

Considering the caster has no control over which targets in the area are affected nor knowledge of which targets resist, I would posit that the caster doesn't have ongoing control over the subject. Otherwise, he could exclude allies from the effect. It's not even dismissable.

Sleep is a compulsion, but is it 'control' in the sense of Protection from Evil section 2? The sentence "If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature." leads me to think it only protects against a limited set of compulsions, those that allow the caster to mentally direct the subject's actions.

I don't think the list of spells is cut and dried, but I think the sage is reaching. He does that.

As to a do-over. If the refs rule that eyes-shut is total protection from colorspray (and other spells that exclude sightless creatures), I'd be okay restarting. Otherwise, I'll see you in the finals.

Bronz
2008-02-19, 08:45 AM
@Maurkov
Honestly I rechecked the color spray thing, and apparently "patterns" effect you whether you can see them or are just caught inside them. I saw the tactic work on someone else before and didn't do my homework (they never cast because of it).

I am still defiantly PRO prot. from evil. It is powerful sure but the interpretation is there.

I'll roll the second will save, but this protection from evil thing really has me going. Seriously, it's like I'm seeing 1+1=2 and people are telling me it's 3. To me, it is blatantly obvious, but I guess it's just me. The control doesn't end until the end of the spell. Charm does not give full control either, neither does daze (which is like sleep), but the wording is there to make it bypass.

And as for power of a 1st level spell, I think color spray and sleep take the cake here. One shot wonders they are, and color spray is like that up until level 5, with sleep topping out at 4th level. That's power.

[roll0]

Bronz
2008-02-19, 08:46 AM
Go figure I make that save.

Bronz
2008-02-19, 08:49 AM
I'd still like to ask for a restart. The rules, as stated, were being followed and they got interpreted in another direction mid match. I based my entire strategy on protection from evil protecting against sleep (we can all see the logic both ways) and I believe it calls for one.

Kyeudo
2008-02-19, 11:03 AM
GM Kyeudo

Sleep doesn't fit the definition of ongoing control. For something to be considered ongoing control, it has to meet 3 criteria.

1. Must be non-instantaneous. Sleep qualifies.
2. Must render the target unable to have full control over his/her actions. Sleep qualifies.
3. Must grant the user influence over the target's actions. Sleep does not qualify, since the caster can't influence the target to do anything but sleep.

I'm sorry that this ruling messes with what you thought would happen, but if we don't go with this ruling, we end up with a 1st level spell that can give the finger to nearly the entire school of Enchantment.

On the restart, you can have it if your opponent will allow it. Otherwise, you can undrink the potion if it had no effect on the match before this.

Maurkov
2008-02-19, 11:10 AM
See? Now why'd you have to go and make that save? Rack 'em.

I'll be purchasing a few things, I think.

Bronz
2008-02-19, 01:43 PM
@Maurkov
I thank you for being understanding. I will have to think of a few things but let me know when you are ready. I'll leave it up to you if you want to keep the same initiative (not like I have a good chance of winning it anyways :smallbiggrin:

@Kyeudo
There is one thing that really perplexes me about the ruling and it's this line:


but if we don't go with this ruling, we end up with a 1st level spell that can give the finger to nearly the entire school of Enchantment.


This, above all else, suggests a banning of the spell and not a case by case ruling which can lead to multiple instances of this happening. Is Daze covered since it only lasts one round? Or Command?

Either a comprehensive list of does works and doesn't works is needed, or a complete banning of the Protection from X spells. I am honestly surprised it took us 30 rounds for this to come up.

Maurkov
2008-02-20, 02:41 AM
I agree, we should enumerate which spells Protection from Evil suppresses. I haven't had a chance to rethink my strategy, so I'm not quite ready to buy stuff yet. What's the range and duration on those blindsight potions, anyway?

Bronz
2008-02-20, 08:38 AM
30'. If you are curious the spell is in the spell compendium.
And 1 minute per level.

Bigmac
2008-02-20, 12:06 PM
Yall want to start the new fight in this thread or do you want a new one?

Maurkov
2008-02-20, 02:05 PM
This thread is fine. Is the blindsight spell foiled by silence/deafness?

Bigmac
2008-02-20, 02:32 PM
It never mentions how the sense is acquired (it could be more akin to tremorsense + scent combo) which could still work even blinded and deaf. So I'd be inclined to say no.

Mavian
2008-02-20, 02:41 PM
blindsense and blindsight are both covered in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#blindsightAndBlindsense) and the spell never specifies how blindsight is gained, so I have to agree with Bigmac on this one. Although maybe we should define it for arena purposes.

Maurkov
2008-02-21, 12:18 AM
No purchases.

spell selection
0 Daze
0 Ghost Sound
0 Detect Magic
0 Daze
(0) Mage Hand
1 Colorspray
1 Sleep
1 Sleep
1 Mage Armor
(1) Reduce Person

[roll0]

Starting with a scroll in hand.

scroll is expeditious retreat

Bronz
2008-02-21, 12:21 AM
Maurkov,
If you don't mind, I'd like the uses for Protection from Evil outlined before we proceed, or if its just banned. There are still spells you have that it could be used for theoretically (mainly daze), and I'd rather not make this mistake again.

Edit: Also, I noticed you used reduce person in the last match. I'd just like to remind you that reduce/enlarge person are indeed full round casts

Reduce Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reducePerson.htm)

Maurkov
2008-02-21, 12:13 PM
Thanks for catching the reduce person thing. I'd probably have made that mistake again. The +5 to hide is really handy.

Given the third criterion outlined by Kyeudo, Protection from Evil isn't going to protect against daze. Command would be supressedd, as would the suggestion from hypnotism and using charm person to persuade your opponent to take any actions (though it would probably still prevent attacks). After we get a definitive ruling, though, I may reselect spells.

Bronz
2008-02-21, 12:30 PM
Not to mention the +2 to AC for reduce person.

But yeah, once we get a final list we will finally get going again.

Maurkov
2008-02-22, 07:41 PM
I'm keeping this spell list. Are you ready?

Bronz
2008-02-23, 01:48 AM
Yeah I'm ready. Ditching the potion of protection from evil though. Went from overpowered to nothing fairly quickly. Kind of reminds me of WoW.

I concede the initiative to you.

Bronz
2008-02-24, 02:49 PM
Just checking in.

Maurkov
2008-02-24, 11:23 PM
Elethiomel

Elethiomel recites his scroll then moves from B11 until the pillar interposes as he enters F14.continue move to [roll0] in G14 while drawing a scroll of shield.

Done.

StatusLocation G14 AC14 HP 8 Spells: Expeditious Retreat[10]

Bronz
2008-02-25, 08:42 AM
RedMoon - round 1


Start in Y11 with javelin and spear in hands. Move to S3.
Standard: Ready an action to attack if LoS is gained.

Passive spot: [roll0]
Passive Listen: [roll1]


End turn.


Stats!

Will come later

Maurkov
2008-02-25, 10:17 AM
reactive sense checks
[roll0] [roll1]

Talic
2008-02-25, 03:04 PM
Initiate Ref Talic

@Elethiomel

No LoS


@Redmoon

No LoS

Maurkov
2008-02-25, 05:50 PM
@refsJust to verify, Elethiomel didn't hear anything, either? If RedMoon 'took 1' on his sneak checks and moved more than 25' in a move action for a net -5, Elethiomel should be able to hear him 230' away, and pinpoint if within 30', right?

Seribro
2008-02-25, 06:38 PM
@Elethiomel

You hear movement in the far distant, but it is to far to accurately say what it is doing. It is coming from somwhere northeast though. Bristling of grass and squeaking of wood.


@Redmoon

Nothing to say really... Elethiomel went behind that post but you hear nothing happening behind it.

Maurkov
2008-02-26, 02:33 PM
Elethiomel round 2

Recite scroll of Shield. Sneak to G13 to try to establish LoS [roll0]
Not done.

StatusLocation G13 AC 18 HP 8 Spells: Expeditious Retreat[9], Shield[10]

Talic
2008-02-27, 02:19 PM
Ref Talic

@Elethiomel
You gain sight of your opponent in S3. He appears to have a javelin in one hand, and a spear in the other.


@Redmoon
No LOS

Maurkov
2008-02-27, 02:54 PM
Elethiomel round 2b

complete move to from G13->G15->H15 (still hiding).Done.

StatusLocation H15 AC 18 HP 8 Spells Expeditious Retreat[9], Shield[10]

Bronz
2008-02-27, 03:27 PM
RedMoon - round 2

Assuming no LoS


Move: From S3 move to I3, jumping the hampered terrain (autosuccess).

Standard: Pending LoS check.

Passive spot: [roll0]
Passive Listen: [roll1]


Not done.


Stats!

HP: 21
AC: 17
Current Location: I3

Seribro
2008-02-27, 03:40 PM
@redmoon:
no LoS

Bronz
2008-02-27, 03:43 PM
RedMoon - round 2 cont'd



Ready an action to move if either LoS is established or spellcasting is heard.

Passive spot: rolled previously
Passive Listen: rolled previously


Done.


Stats!

HP: 21
AC: 17
Current Location: I3

Maurkov
2008-02-27, 06:53 PM
reactive sense checks[roll0] [roll1]

Seribro
2008-02-28, 06:05 AM
@Elethiomel

You lost sight of him when he moved into O3. You can't see where he ended his movement and you haven't heard anything that could tell you more of where he went or what he did there

Maurkov
2008-02-28, 12:55 PM
Elethiomel round 3

Cast Mage Armor. Move to I15. [roll0]Done.

StatusLocation I15 AC 22 HP 8 Spells expeditious retreat[8], shield[9], mage armor [1200]

Talic
2008-02-28, 01:52 PM
Ref Talic

@Elethiomel

No LOS


@Redmoon

No LOS

Bronz
2008-02-28, 02:15 PM
RedMoon - round 3



Move: Move to C10
Standard: TBD, need LoS
Passive spot: [roll0]
Passive Listen: [roll1]


Not done.


Stats!

HP: 21
AC: 17
Current Location: C10

Talic
2008-02-28, 03:03 PM
Ref Talic

@Elethomiel

You barely have LOS to Redmoon in C10


@Redmoon

No LOS

Bronz
2008-02-28, 03:25 PM
RedMoon - round 3 cont'd



Standard: Ready an action to move if either LoS is gained or Spellcasting is heard.

Passive spot: previous post
Passive Listen: previous post


Done.


Stats!

HP: 21
AC: 17
Current Location: C10

Maurkov
2008-02-28, 05:27 PM
@refsIf Redmoon is not still in C10, I will revise my action.

Elethiomel Round 4

I'm not sure if consumed scrolls disintegrate or if they have to be dropped. If the latter, use a free action to drop the ex-scroll of shield out of RedMoon's sight in J14. Use another free action to Enhance Attribute: INT. Ready an action: When RedMoon approaches to 35' (C12 being the likeliest spot), take a 5' step in his direction and cast Daze (Will DC 16).Done.

StatusLocation I15 AC 22 HP8 Spells Expeditious Retreat[7] Shield[8] Mage Armor[1199]

Bronz
2008-02-28, 06:00 PM
RedMoon - round 4



Move: Move to C15 (move not complete)

Passive spot: [roll0]
Passive Listen: [roll1]


Not done.


Stats!

HP: 21
AC: 17
Current Location: C15

Talic
2008-02-29, 12:52 PM
Ref Talic

When Redmoon Reaches C12, a readied action is able to be triggered. Elethiomel, you may post that action.

Maurkov
2008-02-29, 01:02 PM
Elethiomel round 4 reprise


Ready an action: When RedMoon approaches to 35' (C12 being the likeliest spot), take a 5' step in his direction and cast Daze (Will DC 16).

Bronz
2008-02-29, 02:20 PM
I figured you were hiding somewhere around that post. All well.

[roll0]

Maurkov
2008-02-29, 02:57 PM
Since RedMoon can kill Elthiomel with one toss from anywhere on the map, yes. Cover == good.

Elethiomel Round 5

Elethiomel advances (D13) while drawing a very large axe in one hand. If necessary, he drops anything else he might be holding so that he can Color Spray (DC 17) RedMoon.

@refs: Please roll the duration inside spoiler tags.

Bronz
2008-02-29, 03:00 PM
[roll0]

go go second miracle.


Would have worked if I was raging. GG.

Maurkov
2008-02-29, 04:39 PM
Good Game. Good luck in your upcoming matches.

Mavian
2008-02-29, 07:19 PM
High Ref Mav:

Elethiomel is declared the winner and collects the spoils