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Ethrael
2008-02-17, 04:25 AM
Ok I just thought of this one, not completely sure about it so please suggest whatever you think or if you like it. :smallsmile:


The Discus
Exotic-One handed

{table=head]Name|
Cost|
Dmg (S)|
Dmg (M)|
Critical|
Range Increment|
Weight|
Type

Discus|20 gp|
1d3|
1d4|
18-20/x2|
40 ft.|
2 lb|
Slashing[/table]

The Discus: The discus is a round, quite flat ring, made of metal or stone, with sharp edges and a cross-like grip in the middle. The medium version of it is about 6.5 inches in diameter. The discus has a metal or wooden cross-grip. To be used, the disc is continuously spun using the cross-grip to slash the opponent. A discus may also have pairs of spikes fitted onto it for an extra 2 gp each, in which case the discus deals damage as a discus one above its size.

Concept Image (Axel) (http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/AxelKH.jpg/180px-AxelKH.jpg)

There is also a feat that can be taken to make the discus have the returning property:

Returning Discus [General]

Requirements: Proficiency with the Discus, BAB +1

Benefit: When you throw a Discus, you may treat it as if it had the returning property. Immediately before the beginning of your next turn, it returns to your hand and you may catch it as a free action, provided you have a hand free and you are in the same square from which you threw it. This is an extraordinary ability.

Normal: When you throw a Discus, it doesn't return to you.

Special: A Fighter may select Returning Discus as one of his bonus feats.

Zyks
2008-02-17, 05:40 AM
I'd suggest making the damage the same throughout, no matter which attack you choose. But I like it. I never thought of using a discus close up though. Good concept. :smallsmile:

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 05:49 AM
Yeh you're right. Now I don't remember the reason for putting bludgeoning as less. :smalltongue:

Caracol
2008-02-17, 06:22 AM
Mmmmm.... I don't think that a weapon like this would really work. If I have understanded its functioning correctly, you can't give the sharp edges of the discus enough spin to make it cut something. Its momentun would be too low, due to the small arc you can create spinning your finger. Sure, it would do some scratches against a soft undefended skin, but against an armor....

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 06:32 AM
I understand your thinking, but the idea is that it's very sharp, possibly more than a sword in some cases and also that when used properly and after being taught how to use, you can spin also very fast, it is true that it might be hard to pierce armour, but isn't it always? Plus, it doesn't have to be only the momentum generated by the hand, it could also involve the whole body spinning round whilst spinning the discus and during the body's spin the user slashes the opponent.

Also, I don't think I explained this well enough, the finger holes aren't tiny little holes, they could be quite big and it would be easy to constantly keep it moving by switching holes between fingers.

Btw do you think a picture or rough sketch would help?

Spiryt
2008-02-17, 07:00 AM
Btw do you think a picture or rough sketch would help?

Yes. I thought that this is just some slashing knuckle-duster, which would made some sense. But now I don't really know. :smallconfused:

Alternatively, you can just carefully describe how it exactly works.

Also, why it gives better defense against arrows?

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 08:37 AM
Ok, I've done the best Microsoft Word allows me to:

Concept Image of Discus (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj38/Ethrael/?action=view&current=Discus.jpg)

And in answer to your question, You get a deflection bonus to arrows because with a discus it is possible to deflect them whilst spinning the discus and using it as a shield.

Spiryt
2008-02-17, 09:12 AM
You did it in world? I would fail miserably.

So, basically, you put your finger in those holes, hold and attack enemy with edge?

If so, sorry, but this weapon make no sanse whatsoever.

It has no reach, no power ( no levereage, upon the other things, as Caracol pointed out). The very grip is unsteady and dangerous.

Surely, you could do some damage to unarmored human with it, but...

Imagine yourself - you are fighting with such thing with human with lets say longaxe. Let's leave all obvious aspects of such unfair fight, let's just say, that one good blow from high or low would break your fingers or even whole hand.

Just imagine yourself - all moves with it will be extremaly cumbersome, and your hand is exposed to attack.

And I really can't say how it do any good against arrows.

Firstly, if you are fast enough to see that arrow flies towards you - you just step aside. Or if you don't you swing your sword/axe/polearm around. Those weapons are quite long, so there is chance that they will hit arrow and deflect it.

But this disc? Why it's good against arrows?

Nebo_
2008-02-17, 09:21 AM
Looks like a good way to get your fingers broken. There is a weapon that is similar to this, but it uses a haft instead of your arm. They call it an axe.

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 09:40 AM
Ok to recap: basically, you put the fingers in the holes and spin it by moving your fingers into different holes each time so that there is continual motion. You can throw the discus, I might not have made that clear enough, and with a sharp metal edge it can do a lot of damage, almost as much as a sword. It is true it's an easy way to get your fingers broken if you don't know how to to use it, but if you do and can use it well, it shouldn't be too easy to break your hand. You can hold it up in the case of a rain of arrows as a second shield, only instead of the arrows being embedded in it, they are deflected. Also, what good would a warrior be with a sword if he only went for the armour? He'd go for the joints of it and with a discus it's even easier because it's thinner and can get into the joints of the armour more easily. Plus it does have a small reach, not as much as other weapons but it has other uses because of this.

You could use it as a knuckleduster as you originally thought, for a sturdier grip, but it wouldn't give the same amount of damage. I don't think it will be very cumbersome if you can use it properly, it could be quite elegant in fact. Think about it: with one simple sweep of your arm, you can do quite a lot of damage, and you can parry as well. It may be dangerous at your fingers are in the way, but what if you kept it moving so your enemy doesn't hit them? I'm not sure if you all picture it in an akward way or if i've not described it properly, but I believe it can be quite interesting and in fact very different to all weapons, including axes.

Spiryt
2008-02-17, 09:47 AM
Ok to recap: basically, you put the fingers in the holes and spin it by moving your fingers into different holes each time so that there is continual motion.



Okay, I really don't enjoy being malicious, but this is an absurd, worth Monty Python.

Do you really imagine someone spinning something on fingers in the middle of battle? When other people are killing themselves with dangerous objects?

Caracol
2008-02-17, 10:08 AM
Ok to recap: basically, you put the fingers in the holes and spin it by moving your fingers into different holes each time so that there is continual motion. You can throw the discus, I might not have made that clear enough, and with a sharp metal edge it can do a lot of damage, almost as much as a sword. It is true it's an easy way to get your fingers broken if you don't know how to to use it, but if you do and can use it well, it shouldn't be too easy to break your hand. You can hold it up in the case of a rain of arrows as a second shield, only instead of the arrows being embedded in it, they are deflected.

Do you actually have to change the position of the fingers every time? That would NEVER give the discus enough spin, plus is a difficult task, and honestly I would never even try to train in something like this to use a weapon. Also, much different that the other weapons, this one doesn't have an hilt to defendo yourself, and your fingers are exposed to hits and arrows too much.


Also, what good would a warrior be with a sword if he only went for the armour? He'd go for the joints of it and with a discus it's even easier because it's thinner and can get into the joints of the armour more easily. Plus it does have a small reach, not as much as other weapons but it has other uses because of this.

I can't pretend to be an expert about every armed fighting style out there, but I train in japanese fencing and I can guarantee that when you try to his someone, you should go for his vital points, armored or not, istead of going to the joints of the armor. Because you need to deliver deadly blows as soon as possible, and because every time you try to hit, you inevitably leave your defenses open to your opponent's counterattacks, and you'd better not waste you time in trying wounding him in unespected places leaving your defense open for him to just attacking your head.
But I realize that DnD combats aren't like actual ones. This is just to pointing out that this weapon would be uneffective in real life. The rules of DnD could let it be effective anyway.


You could use it as a knuckleduster as you originally thought, for a sturdier grip, but it wouldn't give the same amount of damage. I don't think it will be very cumbersome if you can use it properly, it could be quite elegant in fact. Think about it: with one simple sweep of your arm, you can do quite a lot of damage, and you can parry as well. It may be dangerous at your fingers are in the way, but what if you kept it moving so your enemy doesn't hit them? I'm not sure if you all picture it in an akward way or if i've not described it properly, but I believe it can be quite interesting and in fact very different to all weapons, including axes.

Actually, I think that using the knucleduster to make a firm grip instead of spinning, is actually the ONLY way to use a weapon like this. And spinning your fingers continuosly is more dangerous that don't move them: if you spin them in the way you say, your opponent just have to leave his blade on the discus and wait for your fingers to be cutted by themselves.

Honestly, I don't like it. Is not realistic and does not give you a lot of possibilities. When you think about an exotic weapon, you need to make it different in the way it's used and in the new possibilities it can give you, of course. But the way it's used is too strange to work, too unrealistic to be considered effective, and with too few new possibilities to make this weapon appealing enough for someone to decide to train in it.

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 10:27 AM
@ Spiryt: I think I can see what you're getting at, it doesn't seem like a weapon to be spinning it when others are doing strong cuts with their axes and swords and what not. Well i think of it simply as another way of getting momentum.

The point is that it is a killing weapon, it's not just something for show. Ever seen Xena? You know her jagged ring which she throws? Imagine it like that, only it reaches to the middle and can also be held for melee combat.

@Caracol: I understand that the spinning idea isn't getting on well. So don't think of it as simply moving your fingers around the holes. You know when you spin a quarterstaff? The finger movement is like that only instead of using the staff as the hold, you use the finger holes as a hold.

It's difficult to try and explain the idea of a certain type of weapon, especially as it doesn't exist, but from what I hope I'm getting across, I believe it can be a very useful type of weapon, it's basically the edge of the sword continuing to do more damage every time it comes round so it's like the sword only you don't lose the momentum every time you finish a swing.

Also, what you said about not only going for joints, I understand that because otherwise you wouldn't be able to do any real damage. But the thing is that the idea of it is flexible and you can do many things when you think them up. It's not just a sheet of round metal with holes in the middle. If you've ever held a discus, it's that with a sharp edge and finger holds in the middle. You can still bash someone with it, albeit it would hurt the fingers if you did it too hard, but I think it can be toyed with to come up with many different ways to use it.

Spiryt
2008-02-17, 10:37 AM
I can't pretend to be an expert about every armed fighting style out there, but I train in japanese fencing and I can guarantee that when you try to his someone, you should go for his vital points, armored or not, istead of going to the joints of the armor. Because you need to deliver deadly blows as soon as possible, and because every time you try to hit, you inevitably leave your defenses open to your opponent's counterattacks, and you'd better not waste you time in trying wounding him in unespected places leaving your defense open for him to just attacking your head.
But I realize that DnD combats aren't like actual ones. This is just to pointing out that this weapon would be uneffective in real life. The rules of DnD could let it be effective anyway.



Well, with most slashing weapons (swords, sabers, knifes e.c.) going for the joints is the only way, cause you could beat plate armor guy with sword whole day and you won't do much, vital points or not, even if it's heavy thing like claymore.

But the problem is that I can't imagine going for the joints with such thing. Seriously, I can't imagine doing anything with it..

I just cut something like that from paper, and I want to point out that puting it in rotating motion is imposible in the firtst place.


[COLOR="DarkRed"]@ Spiryt: I think I can see what you're getting at, it doesn't seem like a weapon to be spinning it when others are doing strong cuts with their axes and swords and what not. Well i think of it simply as another way of getting momentum.

The point is that it is a killing weapon, it's not just something for show. Ever seen Xena? You know her jagged ring which she throws? Imagine it like that, only it reaches to the middle and can also be held for melee combat.


Please spare me. I thought we were talking about weapons, not about Xena. Xena may be fun, but Dragon Ball is probably more realistic.

You won't get any monumentum out of it. Human fingers don't have enough strenght


I understand that the spinning idea isn't getting on well. So don't think of it as simply moving your fingers around the holes. You know when you spin a quarterstaff? The finger movement is like that only instead of using the staff as the hold, you use the finger holes as a hold.

And do you really think anyone could do this, trying to hit someone at the same time?


continuing to do more damage every time it comes round

So you think that anyone could be able to spin it faster and faster, anytime he spin it? It's against physic.

The best thing one could do with it is not loose it for maybe 5 seconds.

Caracol
2008-02-17, 10:52 AM
A weapon like the one you say exists its the chakram. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakram) But is a sharp ring with the outer edges intended to cutting, and with no grip (some chakras have leather strips along the ring to be gripped). Is intended, developed and used as a throwing weapon. It can be held, of course, as a melee weapon by the leather strips and used as an unusual dagger, of course, but not spinning it.
Xena's chakram istead (I must warn you to use fictional characters, weapons and styles to make your point about using this weapon effectively), with that strange grip in the middle, would make a melee weapon, but an incredibly ankward and slow melee weapon. The movements of your wrists are not intended to spin fast enough, they convey not enough strenght and they are extremely slow compared to a regular dagger. I can be more effective in melee using a needle and trying to shove it into your eyes, istead. And, if even using a disc weapon spinning it with your wrist is useless and difficult, what about using YOUR FINGERS?
Xena's chakram and your discus sure are cool to be seen, but thrust me, they can deal almost no damage and they are INCREDIBLY difficult tu use. A regulare chakram istead is good as a throwing weapon (really good) and not bad as a reserve melee weapon.

EDIT: notice this just now.


@Caracol: I understand that the spinning idea isn't getting on well. So don't think of it as simply moving your fingers around the holes. You know when you spin a quarterstaff? The finger movement is like that only instead of using the staff as the hold, you use the finger holes as a hold.

Yes, I know it because I train in staff weapons too in kendo and jodo. Actually, you do the spinning with your wrists and shoulders. You CANT do it with the finger because you don't have enough strength, enoungh momentum and the staff inevitably falls from your hands.

Fingers evolved to be used to manipulation and precision works, not to use weapons.

Reptilius
2008-02-17, 10:59 AM
Two things.

1. Wouldn't it be easier to hold (and make more sense) if there was one large hole in the center instead of several little ones? The spinning might be a little easier. Then again, this might make it too much like the chakram. Point already made. But realism tends not to affect D&D much. A good example would be Axel (http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/AxelKH.jpg/180px-AxelKH.jpg) from KH2. His chakrams are not very solid, and have a cross-grip in the middle. The spikes are also a nice touch. Then again, in that same game people use sitars, keys, and giant cards as weapons, so maybe its not the best example.

2. You say it gives a deflection bonus against arrows. From the SRD:


Deflection Bonus

A deflection bonus affects Armor Class and is granted by a spell or magic effect that makes attacks veer off harmlessly. Deflection bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other deflection bonuses. A deflection bonus applies against touch attacks.

Emphasis mine.

It would be better as a shield bonus, as this weapon is basically a tiny shield with an edge that you can throw at people.

Spiryt
2008-02-17, 11:06 AM
Two things.

1. Wouldn't it be easier to hold (and make more sense) if there was one large hole in the center instead of several little ones? The spinning might be a little easier. Then again, this might make it too much like the chakram.



It would make marginally more sense as a buckler (http://www.myarmoury.com/maly_othr_aa_buck.html?2) with sharp, heavier edges. Still rather joke than weapon, but good grip in the middle would give some chances to actually slash with it.

Buckler's are another simple proof why this weapon is complete nonsense.
People where using bucklers to bash other people. Look at the link, the punchlike shape of this shield - it was designed to knock something with it.
Yet nobody was ever trying to make slashing version, not to mention spinning it.

It would be extremaly cumbersome and uneffective.

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the reference Caracol. Maybe it should be just for throwing instead, in which cast it'll just be a bigger type of shuriken.


And, if even using a disc weapon spinning it with your wrist is useless and difficult, what about using YOUR FINGERS?

I understand the concept is a bit weird for melee, i guess it would be very hard to find a way for it to work, but didn't we say you do use your fingers to use it? :smallconfused:

@Spiryt: A buckler already exists in DnD, and no, I didn't think of it like that at all.

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 11:20 AM
Axel (http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/AxelKH.jpg/180px-AxelKH.jpg) from KH2. His chakrams are not very solid, and have a cross-grip in the middle. The spikes are also a nice touch.

I like this one very much. This is like what I originally thought of it as, but then decided to alter it ((badly)) to make it more realistic. I like this so much more and should like to base the discus on this instead.

Caracol
2008-02-17, 11:28 AM
Axel (http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/AxelKH.jpg/180px-AxelKH.jpg) from KH2. His chakrams are not very solid, and have a cross-grip in the middle. The spikes are also a nice touch.

Dear god, THAT is something that would really never work if used as a spinnin object. The cross grip is good to smash something istead, and the spikes too are good for the same purpose (but is still a stupid weapon in my opinion. Damn, just use a mace, it has more reach and is less encumbering than that thing)

Spiryt
2008-02-17, 11:34 AM
Dear god, THAT is something that would really never work if used as a spinnin object. The cross grip is good to smash something istead, and the spikes too are good for the same purpose (but is still a stupid weapon in my opinion. Damn, just use a mace, it has more reach and is less encumbering than that thing)

This "weapon" turned my brain inside out.

Anyway I can say that I agree about those (http://pericat.ca/llr/images/chakram293.jpg) Xena's things - they looks like much more plausible material for weapon.

They're still stupid, but at least they are not circles. Good swing of arm with those actually could be somewhat dangerous.

BRC
2008-02-17, 11:36 AM
the question is, could you hide one of these in a bowler hat, Ala Oddjob.

Parvum
2008-02-17, 12:23 PM
Just let logic go. Complaints regarding complaints spoilered because I don't know how to conserve space.
...

...

...

FANTASY LOGIC.

FANTASY LOGICFANTASY LOGICFANTASY LOGICFANTASY LOGIC.

BY FANTASY LOGIC, NOTHING MAKES SENSE.

If I can stab you with a dagger, I can also throw it into your spleen perfectly.

I can use a scythe as an effective weapon by trying to poke you with it.

Let up on the logic of the poor thing. It looks 'badass', therefore it is allowable by fantasy logic.

To the weapon, a range increment. A limit to spikes (and note that spikes make damage peircing/slashing). If they are still 'spinney' weapons, a move action to start them up(standard for nonproficient, nonproficients Reflex Save DC 12 to maintain spin after an attack). You may use 'deflect arrows' with a spinning whatchamawhoozit.

Spiryt
2008-02-17, 12:48 PM
Let up on the logic of the poor thing. It looks 'badass', therefore it is allowable by fantasy logic.

Well, we have definetly different definitons of "badass". To me it looks stupid, not badass.

And I don't agree with "fantasy logic". Id depends on fantasy. Yeah, there is fantasy's like Kingdom Heart, but there are much more at least quasi realistic settings.

And D&D is quasi realistic. Look at the weapons in PlayerHandbook. There all are weapons witch were used somewhere (some of they have ridiculous stats, or are drawn ridiculously, but still). Weapon that somehow spins around in someone's hand, and do anything with such spikes doesn't fit D&D at all.

IMO.

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 01:26 PM
I agree that it's far-fetched, but instead of simply dismissing it as stupid, I'd like some help as to make it better. I'm open to criticism, and I understand that you think it's dumb, but I've got no idea right now on how to make it better.

I think I agree with Caracol that I made it way too complicated with the spikes, so I'd like to get rid of that idea. I wouldn't mind making it only ranged, or non-spinning and only for slashing attacks, with the cross-grip though, but it would be so much easier with some actual suggestions instead of only opinions.

@Parvum: I like your idea, it clarifies my previous one, but I think we'd be getting to much into complicated mechanisms and it would be too complicated so noone will want to buy/use it. I also don't believe it should get a shield bonus if it's going to be hollow in the middle with only a cross-grip. The deflection of arrows was mainly for the original discus with a material across the middle to actually deflect it.

Spiryt
2008-02-17, 01:40 PM
I agree that it's far-fetched, but instead of simply dismissing it as stupid, I'd like some help as to make it better. I'm open to criticism, and I understand that you think it's dumb, but I've got no idea right now on how to make it better.



Well, mechanically, you must do something with spikes, cause it's overpowered. Even if you can buy only 2 addtional spikes it makes weapon 1d8 + 2d4 - 3 - 16
which is far too much for no real cost.

I would say that as thrown weapon it have some sense, although it seems to me that one of spikes should be some kind of grip to allow throw without hurting self.

RTGoodman
2008-02-17, 01:44 PM
And D&D is quasi realistic. Look at the weapons in PlayerHandbook. There all are weapons witch were used somewhere (some of they have ridiculous stats, or are drawn ridiculously, but still). Weapon that somehow spins around in someone's hand, and do anything with such spikes doesn't fit D&D at all.

Um... have you seen the spiked chain?


I imagined this sort of like Xena's chakram (again, just because it's silly doesn't mean anything - it's fantasy). I'd say that you should say it's main focus is as a thrown weapon (sort of like a big shuriken), but in dire situations it can be used as a melee weapon. In melee, just have it deal damage as a dagger of its size, since it's certainly not going to be as good as a longsword (1d8 damage). If you use spikes, maybe increase the size category by one instead of adding a bunch of extra d4s. Maybe you could also add in a feat that lets you treat the discus as if it had the returning property?

One other nitpick - is there a reason it's a x3 crit? I sort of see it as being more like 18-20/x2 or something like that. Most weapons that are described as having razor-sharp edges (kukris, swords, etc.) have a higher chance of critting, as opposed to weapons that just do a lot of damage but more rarely when they happen to crit (like axes, hammers, and such).

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 01:54 PM
I imagined this sort of like Xena's chakram (again, just because it's silly doesn't mean anything - it's fantasy). I'd say that you should say it's main focus is as a thrown weapon (sort of like a big shuriken), but in dire situations it can be used as a melee weapon. In melee, just have it deal damage as a dagger of its size, since it's certainly not going to be as good as a longsword (1d8 damage). If you use spikes, maybe increase the size category by one instead of adding a bunch of extra d4s. Maybe you could also add in a feat that lets you treat the discus as if it had the returning property?
Emphasis by me.

I agree with a lot of this, especial the damage issues. That part about dire situations, would is make sense to put in a penalty when using it as a melee weapon?

Also, what do you mean by adding a feat to make it returning? I just thought, it would embedd itself in the enemy, unless it already had the returning property. Do you mean make it so that it already has the returning property?

About the crit, I didn't really have a reason for making it x3, and I think it's better with a larger range of critting but still with a x2.

Spiryt
2008-02-17, 01:58 PM
Um... have you seen the spiked chain?



Spiked chain certainly isn't very good idea, and the fact that you can optimize it very, very well, so it's in fact ultimate melee weapon in D&D, certainly speaks against D&D.

But again, striking someone with a long chain has sense, and can be brutaly effective. In my country punks were famous for using chains to battle skinheads. We have even few jokes about it...

But back to topic, chain certainly isn't war weapon like sword, polearm e.c., but still it can be effective.

This thing from HK2 cannot. That's what I was trying to say.


About mechanic of this:

I think it can stay that way ( 1d4, 40ft, crit x 3), but it's then so weak that no one would waste a feat to take it.
So maybe add :
Character proficient with Discus can add half of her Dexterity modifier to damage, in addtion to additional damage from her strenght score.
It would be very useful for high Dex character's, but probably not broken.

I don't know why it should have such property, and for example throwing axe not fluffwise, but still, that's my suiggestion.

RTGoodman
2008-02-17, 02:23 PM
[COLOR="DarkRed"]I agree with a lot of this, especial the damage issues. That part about dire situations, would is make sense to put in a penalty when using it as a melee weapon?

I don't think you really need a penalty per se (you are spending a feat to use it anyway, as an exotic weapon), but I think it'd be harder to get a good hit in with it as a melee weapon. That's why I suggested that it only do damage as a dagger of its size when wielded as a melee weapon (1d3 Small; 1d4 Medium).


Also, what do you mean by adding a feat to make it returning? I just thought, it would embedd itself in the enemy, unless it already had the returning property. Do you mean make it so that it already has the returning property?

Well, I thought about it in context with Xena's weapon (which may or may not be a good way to think of it). The way it worked was, she threw it, it slashed a guy, and then it flew back in an arc sort of like a boomerang. And there are already mechanics for a boomerang, now that I think about it, but I think treating it as returning seems to be just as easy.

(The mechanics for boomerangs, I think from the Eberron Campaign Setting, involve having to make a DC 10 touch attack the next round after you throw it to be able to catch it again. The returning property (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#returning) allows you to catch it, but only requires to have a free hand and be in the same spot. I think that works out in the player's favor and doesn't seem too overpowered.)


@Spiryt: I agree that a chain can be dangerous (motorcycle gangs use them all the time, if TV and movies can be trusted), I just think the idea of a swinging, spinning, spiked chain as a weapon seems silly. :smalltongue:

Caracol
2008-02-17, 03:00 PM
@Spiryt: I agree that a chain can be dangerous (motorcycle gangs use them all the time, if TV and movies can be trusted), I just think the idea of a swinging, spinning, spiked chain as a weapon seems silly. :smalltongue:

Actually, chain-like weapons were common, useful and really, really dangerous. Reach, momentum, trip, disarm... It's not just DnD that chain weapons are powerful. They required YEARS of training, but they were really something not to be consideref "silly".

You don't thrust movies? Well, just take a look at this. It's the kusarigama, a japanese chain-like weapon. Tell me if you consider "silly" the stuff that these guys make. http://youtube.com/watch?v=2va1XyskHrQ

Ethrael
2008-02-17, 04:08 PM
@rtg0922: I know what you mean by returning but I didn't understand what you meant by 'put a feat in' to make it returning. Isn't the only way to get a returning weapon to buy a returning one in the first place?

RTGoodman
2008-02-17, 05:09 PM
@rtg0922: I know what you mean by returning but I didn't understand what you meant by 'put a feat in' to make it returning. Isn't the only way to get a returning weapon to buy a returning one in the first place?

Oh, sorry, misunderstood your question. Normally the only way to get a returning one would indeed be to get the magic returning property, but I was suggesting a non-magical alternative accessible via a feat (i.e., you've practiced throwing the discus enough to be able to arc it in such a way that it'll return to you like a boomerang when you throw it). It doesn't make sense that you should have to have a magic weapon to be able to make it fly in an arc and come back to you (assuming you treat it as something like Xena's chakram). I was thinking something like:


Returning Discus [General]

Requirements: Proficiency with the Discus, BAB +1

Benefit: When you throw a Discus, you may treat it as if it had the returning property. Immediately before the beginning of your next turn, it returns to your hand and you may catch it as a free action, provided you have a hand free and you are in the same square from which you threw it. This is an extraordinary ability.

Normal: When you throw a Discus, it doesn't return to you.

Special: A Fighter may select Returning Discus as one of his bonus feats.

Ethrael
2008-02-18, 01:41 AM
Ok yeah, I like that idea.

Ethrael
2008-02-24, 06:42 AM
Ok, done another concept image. (http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj38/Ethrael/DiscusRevised.jpg) Not as good this time I'm afraid, a little harder.

sciencemile
2008-02-24, 07:01 AM
Well, I know that there used to be an Actual weapon called the discus, but they don't use it much for fighting anymore, and they sort of got around the whole "not enough finger strength".

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z9X3OgCR6D4&feature=related

While they go more for distance than accuracy in the Olympics, it could just as easily be used in combat.

You could probably add your full strength bonus to the Discus, and you can apply Power Attack to it as well, making it a powerful ranged throwing weapon.

I'd also add it to the list of Monk proficiencies, seemings how the Javelin is already on there :P

Hung Lo
2008-02-27, 10:39 AM
Some brief research... according to the wiki:

Wikireality

The men's world record is about 74 meters (about 220 feet?). The men's discuss weighs 4 lbs 7 oz.

I imagine that the discus has some real-world application, coming from ancient Greece, but the article didn't say what it was. Maybe it was the ultimate enhancement on the throwing rock and/or training for other thrown techniques (looking at the video)

Still, if you took a 5-pound metal disc and slung it into someone's face with great velocity, that would sting a lot. The discus technique described must generate amazing centrifugal power if you do it correctly.

Really, how far can any untrained person in good shape throw a 5 pound disc - 30-40 feet, maybe? :smallsmile:

Who knows if a thrower could put it on target in battle, though?

D&D Reality

Reality aside, the above poster has good suggestions with Power Attack and full STR bonus. Call it d6 damage, like a thrown club. Probably the 40' range increment is good too.[/B]

Quasi-Reality

I wouldn't think a discus with holes in it for gripping would be very effective as a melee weapon. That would would make it, um, a buckler! :smallwink:

It wouldn't be as effective as slashing someone with an axe. But it wouldn't be totally useless. You might block an attack with your 5-pound metal disc, then whack someone in the teeth with it (before drawing your sword).

In D&D terms, you could have Discus Man whirling around in circles like a capoeira fighter, smacking enemies with beautifully circular force with his mighty discus. Call it club damage for 1d6 plus extra style points for going Grecian on someone.

The discus doesn't need spikes or blades or anything else - it's a simple smooth metal circle. It's very classical, if you think about it.

This is a fun concept - maybe I'll use it sometime.

Ethrael
2008-02-27, 12:16 PM
I didn't give it the name "The Discus" because I didn't want to just call it "the disc". It's not meant to have much Grecian resemblance, apart from the fact that you throw it.

Also, I like the spikes idea, you could modify it just so that it has a serrated edge or something, but I like the idea that you can add more spikes onto it.

Lappy9000
2008-02-27, 05:09 PM
If you don't mind going a bit over the top, you could take some inspiration from Kingdom Hearts II

http://ui02.gamespot.com/1505/xiiiorder08axel_2.png

The discs are rather large (heavier then 1 lbs, I'd imagine) but they'd make pretty cool exotic slashing (possibly piercing) weapons.

EDIT: Old picture link was broken.

Ethrael
2008-02-27, 05:27 PM
Yeh, I've seen that picture, and that's where I got the inspiration for the spikes from. But you make a good point about the weight, I think the discus should be more than 1 lb.

Lappy9000
2008-02-27, 06:02 PM
My bad, I overlooked the picture in the main post :smallredface:

I neglected to mention, however, that I really like this weapon (being an avid KH2 fan probably helped) and I'd love to implement it in my campaign.

Kyler999
2008-06-04, 01:21 PM
the discus is an aerodynamic rock. Fire and forget. Collect after battle if you see fit. A stone disk with a metal or wooden ring for better gripping.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Discus_Thrower_Copenhagen.jpg

The chakram (Devanāgarī: चक्रम) is a throwing weapon that was used by the ancient Indians; it is a flat metal disc with a sharp outer edge from 5 to 12 inches (13−30 cm) in diameter.

The word comes from Sanskrit and means round, circle, or wheel. Earliest references come from the Indian epics Mahabharata and Ramayana (here the Sudarshana Chakra is the weapon of the god Vishnu). It was used by Indian armies, mostly by Sikhs (who have it on at least one flag). Chakri, is a name of Krishna.

Because of its aerodynamic shape (similar to an aeroplane wing, Flying disc, or Aerobie), it is not easily deflected by wind.



One should be careful not to confuse chakram with wind and fire wheels, which are larger and used in melee.


Wind and fire wheels (Feng Huo Lun) are mle weapons, wielded as a pair, associated with Chinese martial arts such as Baguazhang and Tai Chi Chuan.

Each wheel is a flat metal ring approximately 15 inches in diameter. One quarter-arc has a padded grip with a cross-guard; Opposite and adjacent arcs have protruding flame-styled blades. With one wheel in each hand, the practitioner can slash, stab, parry or disarm an opponent.

All of these weapons already have D20 rules.

Baston Press Armos and Armor has compiled various weapons and rules from all D20 sources.

Kyler999
2008-06-04, 01:23 PM
the discus is an aerodynamic rock. Fire and forget. Collect after battle if you see fit. A stone disk with a metal or wooden ring for better gripping.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Discus_Thrower_Copenhagen.jpg

The chakram (Devanāgarī: चक्रम) is a throwing weapon that was used by the ancient Indians; it is a flat metal disc with a sharp outer edge from 5 to 12 inches (13−30 cm) in diameter.

The word comes from Sanskrit and means round, circle, or wheel. Earliest references come from the Indian epics Mahabharata and Ramayana (here the Sudarshana Chakra is the weapon of the god Vishnu). It was used by Indian armies, mostly by Sikhs (who have it on at least one flag). Chakri, is a name of Krishna.

Because of its aerodynamic shape (similar to an aeroplane wing, Flying disc, or Aerobie), it is not easily deflected by wind.



One should be careful not to confuse chakram with wind and fire wheels, which are larger and used in melee.


Wind and fire wheels (Feng Huo Lun) are mle weapons, wielded as a pair, associated with Chinese martial arts such as Baguazhang and Tai Chi Chuan.

Each wheel is a flat metal ring approximately 15 inches in diameter. One quarter-arc has a padded grip with a cross-guard; Opposite and adjacent arcs have protruding flame-styled blades. With one wheel in each hand, the practitioner can slash, stab, parry or disarm an opponent.

All of these weapons already have D20 rules.

Baston Press Armos and Armor has compiled various weapons and rules from all D20 sources.

Then just srping to put returning on it and save the feat. That's why it's there.