World Building Exercise - Cataclysm of Green

[puppyavenger]

Heres a question, how high power is the setting?
just wondering because I'll be wrighting up the demographics and power structures for the two example dragonholds soon and I'd like to know what level
a. The thousand year old prophet who abuses PAO for eternel youth
b. The supreme commander of a very active military
c. a very rich and sucesful mercant prince worker
and d. your average worker who spends his time mineing .

[Lord Tataraus]

Firstly, about 1% of the total landmass can support any agricultural societies, that is where the Confederacy and Imperium are and that's why they are powerful and so far developed. The jungle cannot support more than small patches of crops, the halflings grow crops only as a fall back to hunting and foraging. Elves and goblins rely completely on hunting and foraging, and dwarves go days without food, hunting what they can and trading for the rest. Kobolds and Gnorks probably grow mushrooms or something and rely on trade and hunting for food as well. These conditions are far from optimal for increasing a population. The land area is just not good enough quality. Who knows how the pre-Green civilization survived, maybe the land was different.

Also, it is unknown how many actually survived the Greening, only that very very few did, only the toughest and luckiest. The young and old all died off, and so even the elves are four generations, maybe three from the greening and they seemed to go crazy. No one knows how long ago the Greening occurred, the Kobolds can estimate about 1000 to 3000 years, but because of the immediate aftereffects, society crumbled. What would happen if all of a sudden, there were ten thousand people left in the world, all scattered around? Most would never see another person again, many would die from the shock or lack of knowledge on how to survive. Those that survived would need to find a mate to continue the race. In the first few generations you'd be worried about survival, not history. The past would be forgotten, told only in legend and myth.

On the question of long life expectancies, I personally don't see why people can't imagine a race with a 100 year maturation, if everything is proportional to that. A breeding cycle would be around 6 years, pregnancy would last about 4 1/2 years, but all of life is slowed down so it works out. Of course, this means it takes a lot longer for a group to recover from such a devastating population depletion, but they would have more time to repair their society and adjust. I don't think the blood elves should be too much of a mutation from the pre-Green elves, yes some features would adjust, but the slow breeding cycle would make that evolution slow. However, I think the psycological impact would be even more significant, these people are used to things taking a long time and having a while to adjust, but then in a matter of hours? days? months? boom. Hardly any left. A mortal just can't handle that very well, especially when it happens so fast and you see all your people (who you feel closer to since there are so few of you) die off, even worse when your women die off. You're going to snap and then your crazy self is going to raise your descendants, and children are very impressionable, especially with all those years of being taught by a psychopath trying to rationalize and figure out what happened, blaming anyone you can. So, in short, I think red elves are more of a psychological evolution, not physical. Oh and this isn't WOW or warcraft, they are Red Elves :smallamused:

[Lord Tataraus]

Heres a question, how high power is the setting?
just wondering because I'll be wrighting up the demographics and power structures for the two example dragonholds soon and I'd like to know what level
a. The thousand year old prophet who abuses PAO for eternel youth
b. The supreme commander of a very active military
c. a very rich and sucesful mercant prince worker
and d. your average worker who spends his time mineing .

Lowish. Tribal chiefs, warlords, and commanders would be around 6-7th level, more cultured areas would have slightly higher with 10-12th being the most powerful. I think above 12th should be adventurers and the greenspawn from the pre-Green era.

[puppyavenger]

Lowish. Tribal chiefs, warlords, and commanders would be around 6-7th level, more cultured areas would have slightly higher with 10-12th being the most powerful. I think above 12th should be adventurers and the greenspawn from the pre-Green era.

okay, so I'lll say level 16 for the prophet(he's the most powerful kobold alive) lvl 12 for the commander, lvl 6 for the mercahnt and lvl 1 for the miner?

[Lord Tataraus]

okay, so I'lll say level 16 for the prophet(he's the most powerful kobold alive) lvl 12 for the commander, lvl 6 for the mercahnt and lvl 1 for the miner?

Sounds good.

[tsuuga]

there would be only a handful of elven generations between the Green and today

On the other hand, maybe Red Elves actually have a rather short lifespan. Everybody assumes they're immortal because you never see an old elf... but really, they just die before they're 30.

Or even just the males. With the immense breeding pressure, a new female is going to cause strife within the tribe, necessitating a split before the female picks up much from her mother. With the influence of the nasty, brutish, and short males combined with a short (especially for an elf) time to learn the ropes, it would only take a generation of two to descend into savagery.

Edit:


tsuuga: What, praytell, are you planning for the War and the Weird? I'm quite curious.

I completely failed to read this. Go me.

The War will be a military leader. He'll (of course) be able to give troops morale bonuses, but he'll also be better at training troops, and making sure the clan's defense is up to snuff (some kind of bonus to building palisades, perhaps?) . He'll also get leadership for free (kind of a "duh" feat =P) to represent the young hunters (orcs particularly) who look up to him. He'll usually have a chunk of the workforce at his disposal, for upkeep on defensive structures, clearing out a buffer zone around the clan, etc.

The Weird will probably get a smattering of magic, of "invoke the gods" type, assorted ritual and superstitious things, fireworks, and general utility stuff. He'll get access to the magic library and equipment the weirds who came before him collected.

[Lord Tataraus]

On the other hand, maybe Red Elves actually have a rather short lifespan. Everybody assumes they're immortal because you never see an old elf... but really, they just die before they're 30.

Or even just the males. With the immense breeding pressure, a new female is going to cause strife within the tribe, necessitating a split before the female picks up much from her mother. With the influence of the nasty, brutish, and short males combined with a short (especially for an elf) time to learn the ropes, it would only take a generation of two to descend into savagery.

I think the natural life cycle should not change, however, the elven males mostly die young (only 20 or so years maximum after maturation) due to their savage nature. Inter-tribal conflict and tournaments, jealousy-driven assassination, and plain old death on the battle field are very common. Though, I still think that inside a tribe, they are very organized and calm except in formal conflict over mating. Otherwise, they'd accidentally wipe themselves out, part of the reason I don't think the women-as-sex-slaves would work, its too easy to destroy the elves. Males are expendable, but females aren't so the females would live until they can no longer give birth at which point they either need a lot of male friends or they're probably killed.

[puppyavenger]

got one of the powerplayers of the capital up.

[tsuuga]

The War
The War

Prerequisites:
Special: Must have won the contest to be named a clan War

Hit Dice: 1d12
Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Wis), Heal(Wis), Intiminate(Cha), Jump(Str), Knowledge(Tactics and Local)(Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: 4 x (4 + int)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + int

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Rally the Troops, Respect of the Men, Defend the Clan

2nd|
+2|
+2|
+0|
+0|No "I" in Team, Plan of Attack

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|There is a "Me", Though, Battlefield Authority

[/table]
Class Features

Rally the Troops: The confidence of the War's voice heartens his men. As long as the War is unaffected, he grants a +2 bonus to Will saves to his allies within 60 feet, or a +4 bonus to Will saves against fear.

Respect of the Men: A number of youths and experienced fighers of the village come to especially respect the War, and seek him out for additional training. A War gains first level followers as shown on the table below. He adds bonus levels to them, again as shown on the table below (distribute the levels mostly evenly). These characters must be of martial classes. Calculate the Leadership score as for the feat Leadership. His status as War grants him the bonuses of great renown and possessing a stronghold. This counts as and replaces the Leadership feat.

Defend the Clan: A War makes extensive preparations for battles on his home ground. He ensures that some implement useable as a weapon is in every building, makes hideaways for archers in trees or the roofs of buildlings, hides a few caches of weapons around the town, and may rig up traps and delaying tactics for use in battle. As long as he is defending his clan from outsiders, he gains a +4 Morale bonus to will saves, and a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls and AC. If he is disarmed within his Clan's lands, roll 2d10x10 feet. He is not more than that distance from a weapons cache (in a location chosen by the DM). Such a cache usually contains either a sword or handaxe and shield, or a bow and quiver of 20 arrows.

No "I" in Team: The War and his followers all gain one of the following abilities (chosen when this feature is gained):

Synchronicized Attacks: If two characters with this ability threaten a foe, they are counted as flanking him.

Distracting Strikes: If a character with this feat strikes a foe, any other character attacking the same foe gains a +1 bonus to attack. This bonus stacks, but only lasts until the beginning of the foe's turn.

Shieldmate: If two characters with this feat are adjacent, each gains half the shield bonus of the other (including any enhancement bonus on the shield).


Plan of Attack: By delivering a rousing speech and carefully explaining what he wants them to do, any members of an NPC class to whom this speech was directed gain proficiency with one additional simple weapon, and have a BAB equal to their class level while wielding that type of weapon. Giving this speech takes a minimum of half an hour. The effects of this speech last for one day.

There is a "Me", Though: The War and his followers each gain their choice of the following abilities:

Expert Flanker: Your flanking bonus is +4 instead of +2.

Opportunist: Once per turn, you may take an attack of opportunity on a character when that foe is struck for damage by another character.

Proper Shield Placement: You can attack with shield spikes without forgoing the shield's bonus to AC.


Battlefield Authority: The War's Followers gain a +1 bonus to attack, AC, and Damage while within a 30' radius of the War.


Respect of the Men
{table=head]Leadership Score|Followers|Bonus Levels


<=1|
-|
-


2|
1|
-


3|
2|
-


4|
3|
-


5|
3|
-


6|
4|
-


7|
5|
-


8|
5|
-


9|
6|
-


10|
7|
5


11|
7|
6


12|
8|
8


13|
9|
10


14|
10|
15


15|
10|
20


16|
11|
25


17|
12|
30


18|
12|
35


19|
13|
40


20|
14|
50


21|
15|
60


22|
15|
75


23|
16|
90


24|
17|
110


25+|
17|
135

[/table]

[Vadin]

I like the War, though at present its a tad defensive. Maybe a few more abilities usable without followers or being in the home village (followers rarely make life easier for adventurers, and this class, while mostly flavor, might also be taken by an adventurer who would still like to be able to get some treasure occasionally)? Also, what, praytell, is that chart at the end?

[Lord Tataraus]

I think the War should be defensive, this is a good class and is meant to be for an NPC. I really like the Plan of Attack ability, nothing like rousing a bunch of peasants to take out their farm implements and destroying the enemy!


I like the War, though at present its a tad defensive. Maybe a few more abilities usable without followers or being in the home village (followers rarely make life easier for adventurers, and this class, while mostly flavor, might also be taken by an adventurer who would still like to be able to get some treasure occasionally)? Also, what, praytell, is that chart at the end?
That table is the leadership table referenced in the Respect of the Men ability.

[tsuuga]

I think the War should be defensive, this is a good class and is meant to be for an NPC

Yep. War, Weird, and Wise are NPC classes. They'd either be overpowered or useless as PC classes. Plus, PCs have about as much business overseeing the daily affairs of the village as Questy McGiverton has getting his own stupid worg pelts.


Maybe a few more abilities usable without followers

Well... he is a war leader :smalltongue:


or being in the home village

While it's reasonable for Wars to lead an expedition to wipe out those Red Elves that just moved in, their job is pretty much to make the home field advantage as huge as possible. That barn over there? Only an inch of hay in it. Under that is fourty poisoned stakes and four mallets, just so you can slow down travelers on the nearby road. That thatched roof looks a little weird... because it's got bundles of thatch covering arrow slits. The guy who lives there is a marksman, and in event of an attack he's to retreat to his attic and snipe.

When they're not training the militia or thinking up new fortifications, they're directing construction of new buildings. After all, the burliest guys in town are in the habit of taking orders from them.

I feel like I reacted kinda disproportionately.... sorry >.<. While it's easy to see a PC ending up in the contest for one of these positions and winning... or being appointed Interim War to protect a village from the Red Elf Menace, he or she generally ought to hand the position over to someone a bit more stationary, or become an NPC. I guess I can see basing a campaign around the PCs, as the village council, defending the village from threat after threat... Well, that's not really what those classes are for =P. They're prestige classes with only one entry requirement, and that's story based. Thus, the classes are partly designed to make sure any character can fill the role, no matter what their base class is. You can get to be a Wise by fixing the prediction, a weird by creative use of spell-like abilities, and anyone who can beat down some fighters can end up War. So... the classes worry more about making sure the roll gets fulfilled and less about balance.

As for bookkeeping on followers, I do agree. I wouldn't spend much time on them... just roll them up in Redblade or whatever. As long as the War they're attached to is an NPC, you don't have to worry about him leveling up and making you update 18 character sheets.


That table is the leadership table referenced in the Respect of the Men ability.

Yup. I would have put it with the ability, but it was sooooo long... and I don't know how to add an extra title row to a table. Wish I could do sidebars.... :smallannoyed: (Behind the scenes: That's just the leadership table with Cohort level changed to number of followers and number of 1st level followers changed to bonus levels. I'm not sure if I should add the higher level followers as bonus levels or not... The high end of the table gets you 16 level 8s and a level 7, and frankly that seems plenty for people who aren't actively adventuring.)

The Weird is like.... 3/4s done. Coming later: example characters. Anyone want to suggest a clan name? (I was thinking Fylgjaheim for a name for the settlement. Fylgja is norse for a guardian spirit (or follow, I found a conflicting definition), and heim is home. So it could be loosely interpreted as "Home of spirits" or "Home to which we were led". I was thinking of some kind of backstory along the lines of them following Will o' the wisps, finding a decent place to settle, and naming the place in their honor)

[tsuuga]

The Weird
The Weird

Prerequisites:
Special: Must have won the contest to be named a clan Weird

Hit Dice: 1d4
Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), and Spellcraft (Int)..
Skill Points at 1st Level: 4 x (2 + int)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + int

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting advancement

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Minor Incantations, Fetch, Arcane Lore, Hoodoo|+1 level of existing casting class

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2|Major Incantations, Toil and Trouble|+1 level of existing casting class

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Fire Burn, Cauldron Bubble, Wierd's Knowing|+1 level of existing casting class

[/table]
Class Features

Minor Incantations: The Weird learns to cast a number of spells upon taking the 1st level of this class. All of these are spell-like abilities cast at with a caster level equal to the Weird's character level. The Weird may use Detect Magic and Read Magic at will, Guards and Wards and Silent Image each 1/day, and Alarm 1/month. A few of these spells are different from normal as follows:

Alarm - this alarm spell has a duration of 1 month and may be made permanent with a cost of 500 XP at the time of the casting.

Guards and Wards - this spell is always cast at caster level of 6 or higher, even if the Weird's character level is lower than 6.

Fetch: Most Weirds claim this is some kind of helpful or bound spirit. It's just an Unseen Servant with a permanent duration. If it is destroyed or dispelled, the Weird may re-summon it with an incantation lasting 1 minute.

Arcane Lore: The Weird gains access to any bits of arcane lore, magical baubles, and tomes possessed by his predecessor. While each of the two Weirds maintains a separate collection, they're usually happy to assist with a particular thing that you wish to learn (For instance, the other Weird would be more than happy to help you translate a book, or trade one spell for another). You gain +2 to Knowledge(Arcana) checks as long as you have access to your collection, and your counterpart will (almost) always agree to Aid Another when you make checks related to your position as Weird.

Hoodoo: Villagers will often come to you seeking curses, love potions, remedies, and amulets - ones that you don't know how to fulfill. Your predecessors have left behind spells and recipes for such things... but you've got no idea if they work or not. Generally, not. Some villagers won't take "no" for an answer, and it's often simply easier to give them what they ask for. If you choose to fulfill their requests, you'll quickly accumulate a stock of favors owed. You'll usually receive 2d10 requests each week.

+1 Spell Level of Existing Casting Class: If the Weird already had the ability to cast arcane or divine spells, he learns new spells and gains new spell slots as though he gained a level in that class, and Weird levels stack to determine caster level. If the weird somehow has no casting class, he gains spells as a sorcerer. If the Weird has more than 1 casting class, he must choose which one this applies to. The primary ability score used for the Weird's Spell-like Abilities is the same as that of the Weird's casting class

Major Incantations: The Weird further expands his spell casting abilities, gaining the following as spell-like abilities cast at a caster level equal to the Weird's character level. The Weird may use Solid Fog and Tongues each 1/day and Plant Growth 3/year. However, the Weird may only use the Enrichment option of the Plant Growth spell.

Toil and Trouble: Through trial and error, and sorting through "spells" provided by the Hoodoo ability, you discover that some of them actually work (or that the formula was a bit off). You add the following cantrips to your spell list:

Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, Light, Ghost Sound, Mending, Prestidigitation if you did not already have them.
Hunter's Luck: Provides a +1 bonus to Survival and attack rolls against a specified animal for 6 hours.
Hide Symptoms: Alleviates the external symptoms of a disease for 24 hours. Perhaps better used on a public speaker with a cold than on a guy with the clap.
Shift Luck: The target will exhibit good luck in some minor activity (say, a low-stakes game of chance) in exchange for bad luck the next day.
Ease Childbirth: It's an epidural.
Fertility charm: If you've got mechanics for this, you write the spell description.
Whatever other extremely minor effect you can imagine a commoner asking for:

If, for some reason, you do not have 0th level spell slots, you gain 2x Weird level of them. As you might imagine, trading a real spell for a favor is generally more impressive than a fake one. You get owed better favors.
Your bonus from Arcane Lore increases to +5, as you have weeded out most of the chaff from your collection.

Fire Burn: The Weird can step into one fire, and exit unburnt from another fire in the settlement, as per the Transport via Plants spell. However, he may not bring passengers through a fire smaller than a 5-foot square (Thus, he usually asks the Wars to prepare "signal fires" so that he may quickly bring aid). He may not use this ability again until 10 minutes have passed since he last used it.

Cauldron Bubble: From his experience with mixing up unguents and "potions", a Weird gains the "Brew Potion" feat if he does not already have it. In addition, he can craft cantrip potions at no cost, and he gains a +2 bonus to Craft(Alchemy)

Wierd's Knowing: The Weird learns his final innate spells, cast as spell-like abilities with a caster level equal to his character level. The Weird may use Arcane Sight and Scrying each 1/day.

[Lord Tataraus]

First off, I really like the weird, probably my favorite. However, there are a few clarifications needed:


Spell-Like Abilities: These have a caster level equal to the Weird's character level. Guards and Wards: This is always cast at at least CL 6. The Wierds usually alternate casting this in strategic locations at dawn and dusk. Lengthy Alarm: This version of the Alarm spell has a duration of 1 month, and is not triggered by Tiny creatures. It can also be made permanent by expending 500 experience points (Most villages already have their major entrances warded with permanent versions of this spell). Plant Growth: Only the Enrichment option is available. Detect Magic, Detect Magic, Silent Image, Arcane Sight, Scrying,and Solid Fog: Just like the spell.
I understand this feature, however, it is poorly worded and displayed in the table. Completely remove the listing in the table and replace it with one class feature name, Incantations of the Weird or something. Then replace the description with this:
The Weird learns to cast a number of spells upon taking the 1st level of this class. All of these are spell-like abilities cast at with a caster level equal to the Weird's character level. The Weird may use Detect Magic and Read Magic at will, Guards and Wards and Silent Image each 1/day, and Alarm 1/month. A few of these spells are different from normal as follows:

Alarm - this alarm spell has a duration of 1 month and may be made permanent with a cost of 500 XP at the time of the casting.

Guards and Wards - this spell is always cast at 6th caster level.

Then the next set of spell-like abilities should have a slightly different name and have the following description:
The Weird further expands his spell casting abilities, gaining the following as spell-like abilities cast at a caster level equal to the Weird's character level. The Weird may use Solid Fog and Tongues each 1/day and Plant Growth 3/year. However, the Weird may only use the Enrichment option of the Plant Growth spell.

And the final set should have the following description:
The Weird learns his final innate spells, cast as spell-like abilities with a caster level equal to his character level. The Weird may use Arcane Sight and Scrying each 1/day.


Hoodoo: There are a wide array of superstitions about what, exactly, a Weird can accomplish. Included in the Arcane Lore are a number of "spells" and "charms" that are accomplished through chicanery, the properties of herbs, or do nothing (and are generally described to have no apparent affect (If you're unlucky, your predecessor may have stuck these in with the real magic.). Who can tell if you brought him luck hunting?). Villagers will often come to you seeking curses, love potions, remedies, and amulets; if you choose to give them these things, you will quickly accumulate a stock of favors.
What does this do? I'm really confused, I can't find any mechanical effects or solid statements saying what this ability grants.


+1 Spell Level of Existing Casting Class:
On the table, include this statement in a separate column. This makes it more visible and readable.

[tsuuga]

I understand this feature, however, it is poorly worded and displayed in the table. Completely remove the listing in the table and replace it with one class feature name, Incantations of the Weird or something. Then replace the description with this:

So it is, and so I shall. Much less messy.



What does this do? I'm really confused, I can't find any mechanical effects or solid statements saying what this ability grants.

It has exactly 0 mechanical effects. It's just a flavor thing... most Weirds have poor filing skills, and don't always write everything down. Much like a professional baker's recipes are often just an ingredient list with the words "Cake Method" or "Muffin Method", a Weird may leave out parts of spells and potions that seem obvious to him when he records them. A lot of leveling up as a weird is sorting out the mess that your predecessor left behind, and experimenting. So when you're a newbie Weird, a lot of your magic doesn't work, but you've got commoners who want love potions and hunting spells and magic ointments for gout, and they just won't go away. So you do your best (or, if you're feeling unscrupulous, your worst), and send them away with things that half-work, or that neither of you will know if it works at all. (The charm to keep away Finagling Snorkel Birds? It must work, I've never seen one...).

I suppose it can be mentioned in the class flavor instead... but I kinda like the ability that does nothing.


On the table, include this statement in a separate column. This makes it more visible and readable.

Whoops.... That is what the pros do, isn't it...

[Lord Tataraus]

It has exactly 0 mechanical effects. It's just a flavor thing... most Weirds have poor filing skills, and don't always write everything down. Much like a professional baker's recipes are often just an ingredient list with the words "Cake Method" or "Muffin Method", a Weird may leave out parts of spells and potions that seem obvious to him when he records them. A lot of leveling up as a weird is sorting out the mess that your predecessor left behind, and experimenting. So when you're a newbie Weird, a lot of your magic doesn't work, but you've got commoners who want love potions and hunting spells and magic ointments for gout, and they just won't go away. So you do your best (or, if you're feeling unscrupulous, your worst), and send them away with things that half-work, or that neither of you will know if it works at all. (The charm to keep away Finagling Snorkel Birds? It must work, I've never seen one...).
You explained it a lot better here, try to incorporate this in the actual description.


I suppose it can be mentioned in the class flavor instead... but I kinda like the ability that does nothing.
How about this, you have most of that as class fluff, but have this class feature be the "Villagers will often come to you seeking curses, love potions, remedies, and amulets; if you choose to give them these things, you will quickly accumulate a stock of favors." Include a little bit of crunch like "You receive 2d10 such requests each week." or something along those lines, its more of an annoyance factor so you know that these guys are going to keep coming to you.


Whoops.... That is what the pros do, isn't it...
Must...resist...inside...joke....
I hear that's what the pros do. I hear it works ok.

[tsuuga]

You explained it a lot better here, try to incorporate this in the actual description.

How about this, you have most of that as class fluff, but have this class feature be the "Villagers will often come to you seeking curses, love potions, remedies, and amulets; if you choose to give them these things, you will quickly accumulate a stock of favors." Include a little bit of crunch like "You receive 2d10 such requests each week." or something along those lines, its more of an annoyance factor so you know that these guys are going to keep coming to you.

Must...resist...inside...joke....


Much better than what I updated... as soon as I get around to adding in the flavor, I'll do just that. Gracias.

Your inside joke makes no sense to me, and that's probably the way it should be :smallamused:

[Lord Tataraus]

Much better than what I updated... as soon as I get around to adding in the flavor, I'll do just that. Gracias.

Your inside joke makes no sense to me, and that's probably the way it should be :smallamused:

No problem. And if you got the joke at all, I would have been shocked and wonder how you know my friends. We use it all the time, so I cracked up when I saw your (unintentional) reference to it.

I have decided to compile a pdf to make it easier to reference than just a single post in this thread, though I don't know when it'll be available, I do have a prior project that I promised for next week. However, we don't really have an official red elf write up, I would like that soon.

[DaBull]

Okay, so I've been playing with this idea with Vadin. I haven't read all of the flavor for this setting, but Vadin's been helping me out. Feedback me please.

Moldspawn Kobolds
Before the Greening, on one the Western Islands, there was a small kobold nation ruled by a lich lord. When the Greening occurred, the civilization was wiped out, except for the lich. In the underground of the island, it was mold that cropped up in leiu of other plants. The lich became a Greenspawn infused with mold. This ultimately made little difference to his normal state of decay, but the plantish impulses have... mellowed... him out (he is neutral aligned). With thousands of dead kobolds everywhere around him, the lich used his necromantic powers to resurrect them.
The lich lord used his powers at first to sustain the undead kobolds, but over time others were able to gain a higher level of consciousness and magic power and ascend to lich status to themselves, becoming infused with the mold and aiding the first lich in managing the undead civilization.
Called by outsiders the Isle of Decay, or in slightly less reverent terms, the Moldy Isle, the society developing underground goes largely unnoticed by the other races. The island is covered with plants, but molds have taken over much of the island, making it very inhospitable to other races; which is why others have not discovered what lies underneath.
The society is ruled by a circle of powerful, neutrally aligned lichs. They maintain their neutral status because when they become a lich, they are also turned into a Greenspawn. These lichs are responsible for maintaining the other undead, as well as guiding the group as a whole. They manage the numbers of the civilization as well. Anytime more workers are desired, for the basic needs of an undead population are little, the liches simply have more of the ancient dead bodies brought out, and they animate them. These bodies are magically preserved from decay in caverns, using a process much like the preserve food spell.
Unlike most other societies, which have lost most of their magic knowledge, the Moldspawn Kobolds are almost entirely maintained by magic. Their magic users are incredibly powerful because they are constantly using their magic. The magical presences of these liches are indeed wide spanning, and they percieve through scrying and other spells, much of what goes on in the world.
The basic undead kobold inhabitant is a kobold worker with a modified ungreen template (Vadin's ideas: they retain their mental scores, HD are unchanged, they can gain class levels).
And the rest is to be developed.

[Lord Tataraus]

Okay, so I've been playing with this idea with Vadin. I haven't read all of the flavor for this setting, but Vadin's been helping me out. Feedback me please.

Moldspawn Kobolds
*snip*

Awesome. I really like this circle of neutral greenspawn liches idea. It makes a for a really interesting dynamic in the world, once someone finds out about it the draw of magic could cause a large number of complications and start wars. In fact, this has given me an idea: Moldminds. A Moldmind is a template much like the voidmind, basically it is a special magical mold implanted in a living being's brain, allowing the implanter minor control in the form of urges and memory skewing. This tactic is used when somebody accidentally discovers the civilization. That unlucky adventurer is implanted with the moldmind and his memory is replaced with the stereotypical view of the island and he is sent back. The liches can then use this moldmind as a spy, the moldmind cannot be directly controlled, but emotional urges and meory modification allow enough control that the liches can gather large amounts of information via full direct sensory feedback and assure they remain hidden.

How does that sound?

[Aptera]

Random thoughts:

Does the northern Island have dwarves? I think so, but if they do they should be different from the standard "western" desert dwarves. Perhaps they are herders, with less ancient city to pick through? Huge herds of strange beetles burst through the sand, the size of a sheep driven by a group of turbaned dwarves in a something that looks like a water strider. Obviously with their won language.

What if Common was a creole? This means that people grew up speaking it, but only in the major cities and trade posts. So each group would have it's own language and everyone would get common as a second language. Confederates, Imperials have their own language etc. This makes sense because as can be seen in say Europe post Rome a language divides up after a major catastrophe. A major effect of this will be that common is not the language of most major cultural things, the local language is used instead.

How about the world is more dark age or lower tech level. It's not a world of knights in shining armor from the medieval period, but more of the feel Beowulf gives off. of course many of the savages will use rocks.

I have an idea about the southeast coast.

Some ideas for random locations:
University city:
I imagine this town being somewhere in the confederacy, but definitely not its capital. A major university survived from the old days, by closing it's walls from the medieval period before the pre-greening period from the thousands of hungry desperate people after the start of the greening. There various refugees came attracted by the promise of security behind the ancient walls. The town was forced to build up, aided by the remaining magicians of the university. Few people left the grounds, meaning that the spires rose from what seemed like unused wilderness. They may be the tallest still functional buildings on the continent. Why doesn't the university provide for quicker tech advancement? My thought was that much of the data was stored on devices that slowly became harder to use and find (like computers in the wake of a greening like catastrophe). Therefore the scholars began copying down by hand each and every piece of data. Unfortunately, they didn't keep track of the books, so now a huge (100+ levels) vault holds much of the pre-greenings knowledge. monsters infest, as do darker things that secret cults from the university created, menacing that much of the vault is not really usable. But if you found an old card catalog or file on some book, and you wanted I found you could send some adventurers down...

Boat town:
This could be any where really, but I imagine that it would be somewhere on that northern island in the deserts, or in the western desert. Just after the greening a large fleet of ships realized that the world had gone to hell. Much of their people had survived due to their isolation, so when they returned to the harbors and found them destroyed and overgrown, they left. Going from place to place eventually a few boats congregated near an old lighthouse somewhere on the desert coast. There they found a spring for water and some relatively fertile ground. They grounded their boats and began to live near the old lighthouse, which they cleared of the overgrowth. Many of their smaller ships were turned on their ends and dug into the ground becoming houses, and the larger ones became floating islands or just grounded buildings on the ocean shore. Now most of the old ships are no longer there, but they have been patched and repaired over the years. Each “crew” (the descendants of a boats original passengers/crew) live in a boat. They trade with the dwarves for parts, but are wary of them after a few dwarves tried stealing their ships ancient tech. Probably a major port

[Lord Tataraus]

Random thoughts:
Usually the best kind :smalltongue:


Does the northern Island have dwarves? I think so, but if they do they should be different from the standard "western" desert dwarves. Perhaps they are herders, with less ancient city to pick through? Huge herds of strange beetles burst through the sand, the size of a sheep driven by a group of turbaned dwarves in a something that looks like a water strider. Obviously with their won language.
Makes sense, only a small portion ever had any part of the city and it could have been a ghetto, so the tech would be less, though they might get some sea trade.


What if Common was a creole? This means that people grew up speaking it, but only in the major cities and trade posts. So each group would have it's own language and everyone would get common as a second language. Confederates, Imperials have their own language etc. This makes sense because as can be seen in say Europe post Rome a language divides up after a major catastrophe. A major effect of this will be that common is not the language of most major cultural things, the local language is used instead.
Usually, I'm against Common as a first language, I normally only have a trade language that is a bonus language only, but under the circumstances, it isn't too far-fetched to have a common language.


How about the world is more dark age or lower tech level. It's not a world of knights in shining armor from the medieval period, but more of the feel Beowulf gives off. of course many of the savages will use rocks.
Actually, I imagined the world to be more savage, Beowulf than "knights in shining armor" Medieval tech.


University city:
I imagine this town being somewhere in the confederacy, but definitely not its capital. A major university survived from the old days, by closing it's walls from the medieval period before the pre-greening period from the thousands of hungry desperate people after the start of the greening. There various refugees came attracted by the promise of security behind the ancient walls. The town was forced to build up, aided by the remaining magicians of the university. Few people left the grounds, meaning that the spires rose from what seemed like unused wilderness. They may be the tallest still functional buildings on the continent. Why doesn't the university provide for quicker tech advancement? My thought was that much of the data was stored on devices that slowly became harder to use and find (like computers in the wake of a greening like catastrophe). Therefore the scholars began copying down by hand each and every piece of data. Unfortunately, they didn't keep track of the books, so now a huge (100+ levels) vault holds much of the pre-greenings knowledge. monsters infest, as do darker things that secret cults from the university created, menacing that much of the vault is not really usable. But if you found an old card catalog or file on some book, and you wanted I found you could send some adventurers down...
Hey, I really like this idea. The university could have been one of the largest buildings in the city with equal amounts above and below ground with extra protection against flooding (maybe spells) as well as overall the highest in preservation charms. Though with so many dieing (disease maybe?) it would be relatively empty so much would still be unknown.


Boat town:
This could be any where really, but I imagine that it would be somewhere on that northern island in the deserts, or in the western desert. Just after the greening a large fleet of ships realized that the world had gone to hell. Much of their people had survived due to their isolation, so when they returned to the harbors and found them destroyed and overgrown, they left. Going from place to place eventually a few boats congregated near an old lighthouse somewhere on the desert coast. There they found a spring for water and some relatively fertile ground. They grounded their boats and began to live near the old lighthouse, which they cleared of the overgrowth. Many of their smaller ships were turned on their ends and dug into the ground becoming houses, and the larger ones became floating islands or just grounded buildings on the ocean shore. Now most of the old ships are no longer there, but they have been patched and repaired over the years. Each “crew” (the descendants of a boats original passengers/crew) live in a boat. They trade with the dwarves for parts, but are wary of them after a few dwarves tried stealing their ships ancient tech. Probably a major port
The first thought that came to me: Armada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armada_%28Bas-Lag%29). But then you said that took harbor, but still, its pretty close to, in my opinion, one of the best fantastical cities in all fantasy literature. So, needless to say, I love the idea, but I'll try not to make it an Armada clone.

[tsuuga]

Usually, I'm against Common as a first language, I normally only have a trade language that is a bonus language only, but under the circumstances, it isn't too far-fetched to have a common language.

Heh. If you wanted to be really evil... you could provide a set of technical pidgins as bonus languages. Thief Cant, Trade Pidgin, Sailor Slang, Soldier Pidgin, etc. Each of them is fairly universal, but only has the vocabulary to effectively discuss certain subjects. On the other hand, it can be useful to be able to trade for supplies, learn a sword technique, or work with sailors no matter what language they speak.


Actually, I imagined the world to be more savage, Beowulf than "knights in shining armor" Medieval tech.

We should write up exactly what this means. I imagine, for instance, that things like heavy barding and armor are really quite rare. Most of the world isn't flat enough to be stumbling around in plate mail anyway. Big armies are right out, as, again, there's not really any way to set up a supply train.

Hey, I really like this idea. The university could have been one of the largest buildings in the city with equal amounts above and below ground with extra protection against flooding (maybe spells) as well as overall the highest in preservation charms. Though with so many dieing (disease maybe?) it would be relatively empty so much would still be unknown.



The first thought that came to me: Armada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armada_%28Bas-Lag%29). But then you said that took harbor, but still, its pretty close to, in my opinion, one of the best fantastical cities in all fantasy literature. So, needless to say, I love the idea, but I'll try not to make it an Armada clone.

Huh. The first thing that came to mind for me is The Raft(Snow Crash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash)). The Scar is going on my reading list, though.

Strip-Mine city

A strip mine like this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Udachnaya_pipe.JPG).

The original population took up residence here in defense against ungreen (just kick them off the path). The original occupants built huts down at the bottom, as the population grew, new homes were cut into the walls of the mine. Today, the bottom of the mine is either a marketplace or (or a reservoir, if the water table's that high.) The path is narrow enough that two carts can't safely pass one another, so vehicle traffic moves up in the morning, and down at night. There are rope ladders at the north and south of the mine, to save pedestrians time.

This city would have to be in an area that's some distance above sea level, and probably rather dry to boot (so it wouldn't be in a heavily forested area). They probably have some above-average agriculture, whether farming or herding (especially if they have a reservoir, providing enough water to see crops through a drought, and it can be dredged for, um, fertilizer. It's not going to be drinking water... you know what they say rolls downhill).

This city might be a net-exporter of population; since there are no new homes to be had in the mine. Alternatively, I guess they could turn what was once a home into a tunnel with a bunch of homes branching off it. Hm... it would make for a good tunnel city. That's a lot of digging, but it might be easy, at least at first, if there was some sort of magical or technological mining equipment left laying around.


Hollow-tree Halflings
This halfling population is extremely cautious and insular. Perhaps they've been preyed upon in the past by elves, or have a superstition about some dangerous, powerful beast in the area, or maybe it's just some weird religious thing. In any case, they've felt the need to hide their existence. Usually their neighbors are unaware of the Hollow-tree halflings' existence.

The dwellings in this halfling village are built inside the trunks of ancient hollow trees. Most of the dwellings are one room per floor, with ladders going between; the natural breach in the bark is usually meticulously disguised. The typical wear of these halflings when they leave their homes resembles a ghillie suit, and they have bred their Ptychines to closely match the bark of a prominent variety of local tree.

If you see one of these halflings, it will take off in a direction away from the village, and only return hours later when it believes it's lost you. They are almost always nonconfrontational. If you get a chance to talk to these people, its almost always because they desperately need help.


Thirtieth floor and up
This land used to be well below sea level, it's long become swamp (or ocean, or a lake) The people here live in the upper floors of a group of skyscrapers. The lower floors are flooded (and often have poisonous snakes, alligators, or whatever hanging around, or high tides make them unusable, or storms throw waves through them, whatever. If the issue is the local fauna, they're pretty isolated in trade. Sometimes a brave trader sails to them, but they usually aren't willing to sail out; they know whats in those waters). A series of rope bridges, vines, and clotheslines connect these buildings.

The south sides and roofs of these buildings have been converted to hanging gardens; soil has been carefully gathered there, and food plants planted. The east or west sides sometimes have patches of grass to fatten an imported animal. To supplement their vegetables and fruits, they fish (Usually not with rod and reel; two men on two adjacent buildings hold a net between them; and run from one end to the other to scoop up fish. Crustacean traps are also common.)

[Lord Tataraus]

Huh. The first thing that came to mind for me is The Raft(Snow Crash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash)). The Scar is going on my reading list, though.
That's what that book was called! I've been looking for that one, but forgot its name, thanks! I definitely suggest The Scar and Perdido Street Station (which is probably best to read first, or you might be a bit confused reading The Scar). The Scar is my favorite book in that series though I did base my Thraan, City of Fear setting on New Crobuzon in Perdido Street Station.


Strip-Mine city
*snip*

Hollow-tree Halflings
*snip*

Thirtieth floor and up
*snip*

I like the Strip-Mine City, probably in the desert close to the mountains, or even in the mountains. What would make up its population? Humans? Dwarves? Kobolds? or a rare mixture of those? The Hollow-tree Halflings, I think should be on type of sub-culture for the halflings who are closest to their enemies, not a specific locations and should otherwise share the same halfling culture. Halflings seem to be the closest race in this world. The "Thirtieth floor and up" could be a city/town in the flooded lake region in north.

[Vadin]

Awesome. I really like this circle of neutral greenspawn liches idea. It makes a for a really interesting dynamic in the world, once someone finds out about it the draw of magic could cause a large number of complications and start wars. In fact, this has given me an idea: Moldminds. A Moldmind is a template much like the voidmind, basically it is a special magical mold implanted in a living being's brain, allowing the implanter minor control in the form of urges and memory skewing. This tactic is used when somebody accidentally discovers the civilization. That unlucky adventurer is implanted with the moldmind and his memory is replaced with the stereotypical view of the island and he is sent back. The liches can then use this moldmind as a spy, the moldmind cannot be directly controlled, but emotional urges and meory modification allow enough control that the liches can gather large amounts of information via full direct sensory feedback and assure they remain hidden.

How does that sound?

It's got my vote.

On the Thirty Floors idea, sounds like Nesters in the heart of the jungle to me. Are there Dire Alligator stats?

Oh! Maybe these Nesters are alright with going in the water. After all, it isn't the ground. They wouldn't all be doing that, though, as it would be very dangerous, but it would be a great test of strength and courage for warriors and youths with something to prove.

The tree halflings...a rarely seen subculture, methinks. So rarely seen, in fact, that they've got all sorts of legends about them. People call them 'Ghostlings' and talk about how their spirits dwell in the trees themselves. They attribute all sorts of disasters to them. They're kind of like a cross between the Jews and witches in medieval Europe, but a lot harder to find. Easy to pick on and blame things on because nobody really knows anything about them. Very handy scapegoats (though you wouldn't really want to fight them. They steal your soul and drink your blood, right? Or are those just children's stories? Oh man, I don't know! Let's get out of here!).

Also, their Tychs have an odd tendency to be albino.

[Vadin]

Some feats for humans, maybe? (Based on Bloodlines from Unearthed Arcana)

Aboleth Ancestry [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to all Knowledge checks. You also gain the ability to cast Charm Person once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is INT). You can also hold your breath underwater a number of rounds equal to 8 times your Constitution score before you risk drowning.

Blink Dog Baby [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Hide checks. You also gain the ability to cast Blink once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is DEX). You also gain darkvision out to 60 ft.

Celestial Blood [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Sense Motive checks. You also gain the ability to cast Protection from Evil once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA), and can use Smite Evil as a Paladin of your character level once per day.

Demonic Taint [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Move Silently checks. You also gain Resistance to Electricity 5, and can use Smite Good as a Blackguard of your character level once per day.

Devilish Heritage [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Bluff checks. You also gain the ability to cast Darkness once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is INT), and can use Smite Good as a Blackguard of your character level once per day.

Digester Descendant [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Disable Device checks. You also gain the ability to cast Acid Arrow once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CON).

Doppleganger Parentage [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Disguise checks. You also gain the ability to cast Alter Self at will as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA).

Elemental Ancestry [Human]
Benefit: Pick an Elemental from which you have descended:
Air: You gain a +2 bonus to Balance checks and a +1 bonus to Reflex save. You also gain the ability to cast Gust of Wind once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is DEX).
Earth: You gain a +2 bonus to Climb checks and a +1 bonus to Fortitude saves. You also gain the ability to cast Meld Into Stone once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CON).
Fire: You gain a +2 bonus to Tumble checks and a +1 bonus to Initiative. You also gain the ability to cast Pyrotechnics once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA).
Water: You gain a +2 bonus to Swim checks and a +1 bonus to Will saves. You also gain the ability to cast Fog Cloud once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is WIS).

Feytouched [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Bluff checks. You also gain the ability to cast Charm Person once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA). You also gain darkvision out to 60 ft.

Frostworm Family [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Survival checks. You also deal an additional 1d4 cold damage when making unarmed attacks and Resistance to Cold 5.

Giant Child [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Climb checks. You also gain +1 natural armor and +1 Strength and Constitution.

Gorgon Grandparent [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Listen checks. You also gain the ability to cast Flesh to Stone once per month as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA). You also gain the Trample special ability (the DC is Strength based).

Landshark Lineage [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Jump checks. You also gain +1 natural armor and may make a full attack at the end of a charge once per day.

Storm Giant Grandchild [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Concentration checks. You also gain +1 natural armor and Resistance to Electricity 5.

Ogre Mage Mongrel [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks. You also gain +1 natural armor and can cast Magic Missle once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA).

Titan Ichor [Human]
Benefit: You gain the Powerful Build special quality, allowing you to count as one size category larger whenever it would prove advantageous. You also gain a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves vs. Poison.

Troll Ascendant [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Spot checks. You also gain +1 natural armor and heal at double the normal rate.

Vampire Spawn [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Climb, Hide, and Move Silently checks. You also gain Resistance to Cold 5.


Renamed versions:

Deep [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to all Knowledge checks. You also gain the ability to cast Detect Magic at will as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is INT). You can also hold your breath underwater a number of rounds equal to 8 times your Constitution score before you risk drowning.

Fading [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Hide checks. You also gain the ability to cast Blink once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is DEX). You also gain darkvision out to 60 ft.

Celestial [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Sense Motive checks. You also gain the ability to cast Protection from Evil once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA), and can use Smite Evil as a Paladin of your character level once per day.

Demonic [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Move Silently checks. You also gain Resistance to Electricity 5, and can use Smite Good as a Blackguard of your character level once per day.

Devilish [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Bluff checks. You also gain the ability to cast Darkness once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is INT), and can use Smite Good as a Blackguard of your character level once per day.

Corroding [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Disable Device checks. You also gain the ability to cast Acid Arrow once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CON).

Disguising [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Disguise checks. You also gain the ability to cast Alter Self at will as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA).

Elemental [Human]
Benefit: Pick an element to which you are linked:
Air: You gain a +2 bonus to Balance checks and a +1 bonus to Reflex save. You also gain the ability to cast Gust of Wind once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is DEX).
Earth: You gain a +2 bonus to Climb checks and a +1 bonus to Fortitude saves. You also gain the ability to cast Meld Into Stone once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CON).
Fire: You gain a +2 bonus to Tumble checks and a +1 bonus to Initiative. You also gain the ability to cast Pyrotechnics once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA).
Water: You gain a +2 bonus to Swim checks and a +1 bonus to Will saves. You also gain the ability to cast Fog Cloud once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is WIS).

Charming [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Bluff checks. You also gain the ability to cast Charm Person once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA). You also gain darkvision out to 60 ft.

Frozen [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Survival checks. You also deal an additional 1d4 cold damage when making unarmed attacks and Resistance to Cold 5.

Shocking [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to Initiative. You also deal an additional 1d4 electricity damage when making unarmed attacks and Resistance to Electricity 5.

Giant [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Climb checks. You also gain +1 natural armor and +1 Strength and Constitution.

Stone [Human]
Benefit: You gain Tremorsense out to 10 feet. You also gain the ability to cast Flesh to Stone once per month as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA). You also gain the Trample special ability (the DC is Strength based).

Rushing [Human]
Benefit: You gain a 5' bonus to your base land speed and may make a full attack at the end of a charge once per day and an additional time per day per four character levels beyond first.

Storm [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Concentration checks. You also gain +1 natural armor and Resistance to Electricity 5.

Spellfused [Human]
Benefit: You deal +1 damage when using spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. You also gain a +1 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance and can cast Magic Missle once per day as a spell like ability (you have a caster level equal to your HD and your casting stat is CHA).

Destroyer [Human]
Benefit: You gain the Powerful Build special quality, allowing you to count as one size category larger whenever it would prove advantageous. You also gain a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves vs. Poison.

Vivacious [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to Fortitude saves. You also gain +1 natural armor and heal at double the normal rate.

Night [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Climb, Hide, and Move Silently checks. You also gain Resistance to Cold 5.

Day [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Diplomacy, Spot, and Listen checks. You also gain Resistance to Fire 5.

[jagadaishio]

Those feats aren't really balanced with each other. I would say that the doppelganger parentage should give the human Alter Self at will. After all, they're losing their bonus feat for this, and all that the Alter Self at will would really do is bring them up to par with changelings.

What does the giant ancestry feat provide elemental resistance, but not the elemental ancestry? If anything, it should be the other way around.

I would remove Darkness from the ogre and replace it with a +1 to strength.

You should mention that these castings are spell-like abilities. You should also mention which ability score the saves are based off of.

For low light vision, it's normally just that you can see twice as far in low light conditions, not out to a distance.

Really cool ideas, though.

[Vadin]

Alright...now...I think I'll take that advice and rework some of these!

[EDIT] Tsuuga. Wow. Good ideas, those hadn't even occurred to me.

And yes. Yes, we will.

[tsuuga]

Feytouched [Human]


Fey really say "Bluff" to me, not hide. Also Feytouched sounds less like "I've got some Fey blood in me" and more like "Fey Michael Jackson lives on this block" :smallwink:


Titan Ichor [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Jump checks. You also gain the ability to cast Levitate once per day, and gain spell resistance equal to one-half your HD (rounded down, minimum one).

This is kind of a weird one... While the name of this feat did lead to me finding out that ichor is a mineral in the blood of greek gods... it's also poisonous to mortals, another name for bile, and (according to about 90% of fantasy and sci-fi authors) what bugs bleed.

As to the actual abilities... A titan is known for being big. While they are good at jumping (I calculate their racial bonus+ranks to be 21. (Amusingly the 3.0 titan had no ranks and a -1 racial modifier...)), and they do get levitation as a SLA... they're just not iconic abilities. And SR of half your level does... almost absolutely nothing, unless the caster is less than half your level. The titan ability that does stand out is "Oversized Weapon", which allows them to wield a weapon as much as 5 steps over their size without penalty. That really screams "Just give titan-blooded Powerful Build" to me.

sigh... humans will sleep with anything, won't they?:smallamused:

Edit: I never really said anything about the moldy kobolds, did I?

The Moldmind template... I dunno about "not directly control".

Activate Sleeper Agent
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Same Plane
Target: One Moldmind
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Nope
Spell Resistance: Nope

Activate Sleeper Agent allows the lich who created the moldmind to assume direct control for a short period of time. Adrenaline floods the moldmind's system, giving it +4 to Strength and Constitution, +2 to will saves, and -2 to AC. To affect the moldmind with a spell that requires a will save, the caster must both beat the moldmind's will save, and beat the lich with an opposed caster level check.

At the end of the spell, the target becomes fatigued. Though the effects of this spell are very similar to a barbarian's rage, this does not prevent the target from performing complex tasks or those that require thought.

[Aptera]

More randomness:

I have an idea about the southwest coast. It is separated from the city and from the confederation by jungle. Perhaps we should put another group of humans there? I like the idea of a large group of city states which survive mostly by piracy and trade. That seems sort of generic though. Although I do like the idea of sea blood elves. Invisible under the water, then they burst out climb your ship and eat you, swarming over the rigging and oars until your very very dead in their stomachs.

On the issue of language, I like the idea of multiple trade pidgins. I imagine this world is mostly explored by boat so Sailor Speak is probably the most used. Unless the Empire (we need a name for them) and the Confederacy have their own.
So the northern isle dwarves shave their own language?

I've been wondering how it would be if the Empire had a powerful group of nobles who claim they are just a club of retired and active military people, but are instead soldiers devoted to stopping some kind of powerful extra dimensional force who they blame for the greening (not necessarily true). unfortunately they also wish to keep this force secret, and have no qualms about killing/maiming/destroying people to stop this force and keep things secret.

[Vadin]

Added a few more heritages. Blink Dogs, Aboleths, and a few others. Some more of those might be alright, but now...for a few niche feats! Please feel free to add your own.

Practiced Artist [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to all Craft checks. You may also use your Intelligence modifier in place of Dexterity for the purposes of the Weapon Finesse feat and ranged weapons. You automatically know Craft Pidgin.

Lifelong Soldier [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks. You may also use your Strength modifier in place of Charisma for the purposes Intimidate checks and your Leadership score. You automatically know War Pidgin.

Career Criminal [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Sleight of Hand checks. You may also use your Intelligence modifier instead of Dexterity for Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, and Sleight of Hand. You automatically know Crime Pidgin.

Experimental Mage [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Spellcraft checks. You may substitute any mental stat as your casting stat when taking your first level in a magic using class. You may only do this for the first magic using class you take. For example, you could take a level of Sorcerer and cast with Wisdom, but you would have to use Intelligence for the spells you cast from the Wizard level you subsequently take. Also, you automatically know Written Ancient.

Scrounger [Human]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Search and Appraise checks. You may go twice as long without food or water and can sell goods back for 60% of their market price (as opposed to 50%). You automatically know Crime Pidgin.

On the topic of different languages: Soldiers, Craftsmen, Traders, Sailors, Explorers (wagonmasters, indiana jones, etc.), and Criminals (thieves, assassins, fences, etc.) might all talk shop with lingo that nobody else could understand.

[Lord Tataraus]

The Moldmind template... I dunno about "not directly control".

Activate Sleeper Agent
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Same Plane
Target: One Moldmind
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Nope
Spell Resistance: Nope

Activate Sleeper Agent allows the lich who created the moldmind to assume direct control for a short period of time. Adrenaline floods the moldmind's system, giving it +4 to Strength and Constitution, +2 to will saves, and -2 to AC. To affect the moldmind with a spell that requires a will save, the caster must both beat the moldmind's will save, and beat the lich with an opposed caster level check.

At the end of the spell, the target becomes fatigued. Though the effects of this spell are very similar to a barbarian's rage, this does not prevent the target from performing complex tasks or those that require thought.

I'm fine with the spell, but I didn't want a pawn-type moldmind, because those closest to that person would definitely know something is wrong, however with the limited control its just strange urges. Though a spell for special use case and short spurts of time is fine. I'll be sure to stat out the actual template soon.

@ Aptera: Its not the Empire, its the Imperium. That's their name. And it does seem like there is a lot of activity in the western seas, I could definitely see pirate-like red elves (NOT BLOOD ELVES!!! NO WARCRAFT!!!)

On the subject of the heritage/bloodline feats, I personally don't care for them. Its not the mechanics, its the fluff behind them. I never really cared for the inter-species breeding thing, especially when it goes so far to include aboleths, blink dogs, and elementals. Humans just don't sleep with anything like dragons apparently do. However, I wouldn't mind if the feats were reflovared to be more evolutionary, humans taking on aspects by absorbing ambient magics. So, more aspect feats: Water, Fire, Celestial, Strength, etc.

[tsuuga]

Digester bloodline, Frostworm bloodline

s-seriously? Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Mental images. Mental images.

Also, frostworm bloodline is pretty overpowered with an unarmed fighter class in the setting. I have to say I like the "Your great-grandparents didn't necessarily do the horizontal mambo with some horrible, horrible creature" versions better. Although I'll miss the alliteration you added on the newer ones.

Seriously, there's not even an arctic region in the setting. Frostworm, gaaaaaah.

Aptera: Sailor speak may be commonly known, but it can't express many concepts other than giving sailing instructions, or directions to a tavern or brothel. The upshot is that almost every sailor in the campaign world would understand it. In trader's pidgin, you can haggle over the price of bread just about anywhere. In war pidgin, you can plan out that flip-six-three hole (http://www.zombiedefense.org/main/glossary.html#flip-six-three-hole).

I would imagine Human(Mainland), Human(Imperium), and Human(Confederacy) would be different languages, but both cognates and false cognates are common. So supposing that one language is english and the other spanish, you might pick up on worlds like chocolate, familiar, or teléfono; then totally drop the ball on words like embarazada (pregnant). The DM may give a list of words they pick up on, some of which may just be false.

The Imperium Illuminati? sounds good.

Tataraus: Agreed. Interspecies breeding... it's got limits, dude!

Edit: Coming soon - The Wars, Weirds and Wise of Aldrheim Clan.

[Aptera]

Sorry about the name confusion.

[tsuuga]

Raskulfr, War of Aldrheim Clan
Raskulfr - CR 7
Male Orc barbarian 6/war 1
CN Medium humanoid
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen -3, Spot -3
Languages Gnork, War Pidgin
[hr]AC 20, touch 14, flat-footed 18 (+2 Dex, +4 armor, +1 deflection, +1 natural, +2 misc)
hp 73 (7 HD)
Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +0
[hr]Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee +1 Greataxe +13/+8 (1d12+7/20x3)
Ranged Masterwork Composite Longbow(4) +9/+4 (1d8+4/20x3)
Base Atk +7; GRP +11
Atk Options Power Attack
Special Actions Rage 2/day, Rally the Troops,
[hr]Abilities Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 5 Cha 11
SQ Improved Uncanny Dodge, Trapsense +2, Fast Movement, Respect of the Troops, Defend the Clan
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus(Greataxe), Power Attack
Skills Climb +9, Intimidate +10, Jump +9, Knowledge(Tactics) +5, Survival +2, Speak Language (War Pidgin)
Possessions:+1 greataxe, +2 scale mail, cloak of resistance +1, Amulet of natural armor +1, ring of protection +1

Description: Raskulfr is the most junior of the village leaders. His black hair is in dreadlocks, and he has an angular scar on each cheek. He's impulsive and a bully. Björsi or another member of his posse is usually following him around.

Raskulfr's posse
Björsi, male half-orc Bbn3: CR 3; hp 24; Init +0; Spd 30 ft.; AC 15; SV Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +1; Alignment NE; Str 15, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 8, Wis 9, Cha 8.
Skills: Handle Animal +4, Hide +0, Intimidate +3, Listen -1, Move Silently -4, Ride +5, Spot -1;
Feats:Cleave, Power Attack.
Melee: Battleaxe +6 (1d8+2)
Ranged: Longbow +4 (1d8)
Possessions: hide armor, Heavy wooden shield, MW battleaxe, MW longbow
[hr]Bogi, male gnork Rgr2: CR 2; hp 14; Init +0; Spd 30 ft.; AC 10; SV Fort +3, Ref +1, Will -1; Alignment CN; Str 13, Dex 13, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 10.
Skills and feats: Climb +4, Craft (Bowmaking) +2, Heal +4, Hide +4, Jump +4 Knowledge (Nature) +4, Listen +1, Move Silently +4, Search +4, Spot +4, Survival +4;
Feats: Weapon focus(longbow), Point Blank Shot, [Track], [Rapid Shot].
Melee: Handaxe +3 (1d6+1)
Ranged: MW composite longbow(1) +3 (1d8+1)
SLAs: prestidigitation and detect magic 2/day
Possessions: MW studded leather, MW composite longbow(1)
[hr]Jargeirr, Kylfa, Nykr, and Vrangr - identical for your convenience. Male orc Ftr2: CR 2; hp 16; Init +0; Spd 20 ft.; AC 15; SV Fort +3, Ref +0, Will +1; Alignment CN; Str 15, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8.
Skills and feats: Hide +0, Jump +3, Listen -1, Move Silently +0, Ride +3, Spot -1; Iron Will, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus (handaxe).
Melee: MW Handaxe +6 (1d6+2)
Ranged: Composite longbow(1) +2 (1d8+1)
Possessions: MW handaxe, composite longbow (1), large wooden shield
[hr]Ónæmr, male gnome Rog1: CR 1; hp 7; Init +0; Spd 20 ft.; AC 15 (+1 Size); SV Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +2; Alignment CE; Str 8, Dex 11, Con 13, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 10.
Skills: Climb +3, Gather Information +4, Hide +5, Jump +3, Knowledge (Local) +2, Listen +2, Move Silently +5, Sense Motive +4, Spot +0, Tumble +4, Use Rope +4
Feats: Iron Will, [Sneak attack 1d6], [Trapfinding]
Melee: Shortsword +0 (1d4-1)
Ranged: MW shortbow +2 (1d8+1)
SLAs: 1/day—speak with animals (burrowing mammal only, duration 1 minute). A gnome with a Charisma score of at least 10 also has the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation. Caster level 1st; save DC 10
Possessions: shortsword, MW shortbow, MW studded leather armor

Sigfasti, War of Aldrheim Clan
Sigfasti - CR 10
Male Orc fighter 7/war 3
LN Medium humanoid
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen 0, Spot 0
Languages Gnork, War Pidgin
[hr]AC 27, touch 16, flat-footed 25 (+2 Dex, +5 armor, +1 Shield, +2 deflection, +2 natural, +5 misc)
hp 76 (10 HD)
Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +5
[hr]Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
Melee +2 Bastard Sword +15/+10 (1d10+8/16-20x2) and +1 Spiked shield +15 (1d4+5/20x2) or +2 Bastard Sword +17/+12 (1d10+8/16-20x2)
Ranged Masterwork Composite Longbow(4) +12/+7 (1d8+4/20x3)
Base Atk +10; GRP +14
Atk Options Power Attack
Special ActionsRally the Troops, Plan of Attack,
[hr]Abilities Str 18 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 11 Wis 10 Cha 12
SQ Respect of the Troops, Defend the Clan, No "I" in Team(Distracting Strikes), There is a "Me" Though(Opportunist), Battlefield Authority
Feats Exotic Weapon Proficiency(bastard sword), Weapon Focus (bastard sword), weapon Specialization (bastard sword), Improved Critical (bastard sword), Power Attack, Improved Initiative, Improved Shield Bash, Weapon Focus (spiked shield), Weapon Specialization (spiked shield)
Skills Climb +9, Gather Information +3, Intimidate +9, Jump +9, Knowledge(Tactics) +9, Knowledge(Local) +5, Tumble +4
Possessions: +3 breastplate, +2 Bastard sword, +1 spiked +2 light steel shield, Cloak of resistance +2, ring of protection +2, amulet of natural armor +2

Description: Sigfasti is a middle-aged orc; his hair is graying, and he is going bald. He wears a thin mustache. His forearms are covered with a tracery of thin white scars. Sigfasti is often found alone, making the rounds, inspecting his preparations.


Sigfasti's Old Guard
I don't have access to the character generator I was using (stupid work internet filtering), so here's just a general overview of his henchmen.
His lieutenants:
Andvéttr, Orc Fighter 5 - 2-handed fighter
Fleinn, Gnork Fighter 5 - Agile sword-and-boarder/skirmisher

The others:
Vakr, Gnork Ranger 3 - expert tracker, ranged combat style
Járngrímr, Gnork Fighter 3 - warhammer and large shield
Ormr Orc Barbarian 3 - greataxe
Nykr Orc Barbarian 3 - greatclub
Jafri Orc Ranger 2 - dual wielder, 2 handaxes
Baggi Orc Fighter 2 - handaxe and shield
Afi Orc Fighter 2 - handaxe and shield
Klakkr Orc Fighter 2 - handaxe and shield

[jagadaishio]

Raskulfr CR 7
Male Orc barbarian 6/war 1
CN Medium humanoid
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen -3, Spot -3
Languages Gnork, War Pidgin
<hr>AC 22, touch 14, flat-footed 22 (+2 Dex, +7 armor, +1 deflection, +1 natural)
hp 73 (7 HD)
Fort +9, Ref +4, Will -1
<hr>Speed 40 ft. (6 squares)
Melee +1 Greataxe +13/+8 melee (1d12+7/20x3)
Base Atk +7; GRP +11
Atk Options Power Attack
Special Actions Rage 2/day, Rally the Troops,
<hr>Abilities Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 5 Cha 11
SQ Improved Uncanny Dodge, Trapsense +2, Fast Movement, Respect of the Troops, Defend the Clan
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus(Greataxe), Power Attack
Skills Climb +9, Intimidate +10, Jump +9, Knowledge(Tactics) +5, Survival +2, Speak Language (War Pidgin)


That is seriously awesome. I like how you incorporated one of the pidgins in his languages.

[Lord Tataraus]

On the topic of languages, I don't think we should have racial languages, but rather take a linguistic approach. Basically, language evolves in a certain pattern. As civilization becomes centralized, so does language until you have a single language with a variety of dialects which can understand each other to a limited extent, but sufficient for whatever purpose is needed. Language then dissolves into multiple child languages based on the former dialects upon the fall of the civilization that brought it about. This cycle is endlessly repeated throughout world history, most notably with the Roman Empire and Latin and what is beginning to occur with the American economic empire and English.

So, we start with a single language, its name is unimportant so we'll call it Verfian for the purposes of this monologue. Everyone in the pre-Green city spoke a dialect of Verfian based on region, social class, and profession. After the Greening, some dialects were completely wiped out, though a good number remained until the common ones assimilated together. Let's say that 4 distinct dialects survived the Greening and the assimilation of dialects. One would be an upper-class and educated dialect, another the dialect of the lower-class thieves, another of the common worker, another for the sailor. Based on isolation, some languages become more distinct than others (Italian and Spanish are very close, but French is not so much). The elves are highly isolated and their language would develop quite differently from others because of their psychological disruption, bearing no resemblance to the other languages, though the elder elves would most likely speak the ancient tongue of Verfian. Goblins were mostly thieves or of a lower class and would thus be more prone to speaking the thief dialect of Verfian, thus their language would start from there, but transform quickly because of their shorter lifespan. There language however, would be close to the orcs, since most mercenaries and other war-like groups come from the same background and probably speak the same dialect, thus both the language of the goblin cultures and the orcs would be the same language, though two different dialects. Gnomes and kobold royals are more educated and thus would speak the upper-class dialect. They would produce dialects of the same language however they are influenced by other factors. Gnomes integrated with orcs and kobold royals are influenced by the common worker and thief language (from the worker and warrior castes). The kobolds would rapidly transform their language into a hybrid of common, thief, and upper-class. The gnomes would be influenced by the thief dialect. The confederacy and the halflings would most likely be made up of workers and thus be a transformation of mostly the common worker dialect. The Imperium would likewise be mostly common worker, but with significant sailor dialect and become a mixture of that and the dwarves would produce a sailor dialect modified for the desert.

So, here are the languages (unnamed) that I suggest, each language also has a set of related languages which would represent pidgins and slangs that are common:
Confederacy/Interior Language
Thief/Warrior
Trader
Halfing
Elf Language
Educated/Arcane
Imperium/Coastal Language
Sailor
Dwarf
Trader
Goblin Language
Thief/Warrior
Trader
Kobold
Thief/Warrior
Trader
Educated/Arcane
Gnork

So, there are 4 distinct languages that share common terms that make up pidgins and children languages. So, anyone with one of those languages would also have its pidgins and children, though their proficiency with them might be limited. We could introduce a new mechanic that would basically say which pidgin/child you are most familiar with, it would just be a simple listing like Coastal (sailor) for that boat town where they speak mostly with the sailor dialect.

Thoughts? Comments?

[tsuuga]

Thoughts? Comments?

I like it. Very organic.

I'm thinking that the higher-ups in the Imperium, in keeping with the "Clean break from the past" thing, might try to introduce a new language that doesn't include ambiguity or figures of speech; like Lojban or, well, Latin. Acceptance is poor, but higher-class individuals speak it, and proclamations are issued in it (so it's a good idea to know a bit of it)

Not yet finished, just posted here to save my work:

Hafgrímr, Weird of Aldrheim
Hafgrímr - CR 6
Female Gnork wizard 3/weird 3
LN Medium humanoid
Init +?; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen -3, Spot -3
Languages Gnork
<hr>AC 20, touch 14, flat-footed 18 (+2 Dex, +4 armor, +1 deflection, +1 natural, +2 misc)
hp 27 (6 HD)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4
<hr>Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee ? +13/+8 (1d12+7/20x3)
Ranged ? +9/+4 (1d8+4/20x3)
Base Atk +2; GRP +2
Atk Options
Special Actions Minor Incantations, Major Incantations, Fire Burn, Weird's Knowing
<hr>Abilities Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 7 Cha 9
SQ Familiar, Fetch, Arcane Lore, Hoodoo, Toil and Trouble, Cauldron Bubble
Feats Scribe Scroll, Extend Spell
Skills
Possessions:

Description:

{table=head]Level 0 spells|Level 1 spells|Level 2 spells|Level 3 spells
Arcane Mark|Alarm|Summon Monster II|Dispel Magic
Cure Minor Wounds|Shield|Detect Thoughts|Stinking Cloud
Dancing Lights|Obscuring Mist|Levitate|
Detect Poison|Charm Person|Whispering Wind|
Detect Magic|Sleep| |
Ghost Sound|Chill Touch| |
Hide Symptoms|Magic Missile| |
Hunter's Luck| | |
Light| | |
Mage Hand| | |
Mending| | |
Message| | |
Prestidigitation| | |
Read Magic| | |
Shift Luck| | |
[/table]

{table=head]Level 0 spells|Level 1 spells|Level 2 spells|Level 3 spells
Cure Minor Wounds|Charm Person|Detect Thoughts|Dispel Magic
Mending|Magic Missile|Levitate|Stinking Cloud
Prestidigitation|Sleep|Summon Monster II|Stinking Cloud
Shift Luck|Sleep|Whispering Wind|
[/table]


Eldgrímr, Weird of Aldrheim
Eldgrímr - CR 6
Male Gnork sorcerer 3/weird 3
CG Medium humanoid
Init +?; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen -3, Spot -3
Languages Gnork
<hr>AC 20, touch 14, flat-footed 18 (+2 Dex, +4 armor, +1 deflection, +1 natural, +2 misc)
hp 34 (6 HD)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4
<hr>Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee ? +13/+8 (1d12+7/20x3)
Ranged ? +9/+4 (1d8+4/20x3)
Base Atk +2; GRP +2
Atk Options
Special Actions Minor Incantations, Major Incantations, Fire Burn, Weird's Knowing
<hr>Abilities Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 6 Cha 9
SQ Familiar, Fetch, Arcane Lore, Hoodoo, Toil and Trouble, Cauldron Bubble
Feats
Skills
Possessions:

Description: {table=head]Level 0 spells|Level 1 spells|Level 2 spells|Level 3 spells
Acid Splash|Color Spray|Hideous Laughter|Lightning Bolt
Arcane Mark|Identify|Scorching Ray
Cure Minor Wounds|Mage Armor|
Dancing Lights|Magic Missile|
Detect Poison|
Detect Magic|
Ghost Sound|
Hide Symptoms|
Hunter's Luck|
Light|
Mending|
Message|
Prestidigitation|
Read Magic|
Shift Luck|
[/table]

{table=head]Level|Slots
0|6
1|7
2|6
3|4
[/table]

[puppyavenger]

okay, dragonhold power players are done, untill further notice. Anyway, heres a big question, what place does aligment have in the world? I somehow dought there will be many plidins in a world where the only organisation is a mage/theoocracy of underground dwelling lizards.
anyway heres a bit of reasoning for the lack of kobold last names.
Royals

It is a sapient's nature to form groups of mutual defence, to form a group of many weak ones to defeat the single strong one. They form around any grouping they can find, simply look at the gnorkish clans and the human cities, the weak are protected by the strong, those that contribute taking up the slack and working as hard as they can to feed a burden. This is most evident in faimilies, as useless elders decend into senality well being portected and cared for by their spawn. The faimilies protect each other, when a member is wronged the stronger members go to settle the score, and the weak flourish. They fight together, if a weak one is wronged by a strong governing force then they will fight together, and a thousand rabble will defeat a hundred soldiers. If they gain power, a conglomerate such as this could not stay together when given real power. Soon infighting will begin, and the weak governers will fall apart, sending the region into anarchy. The weak can not be protected, if one can not plume the gods mind, they shall be killed, if one loses their talent and power, they will be killed, if one poses a threat to the realm they will be killed. Remorse and emotion can not enter into the decision, no royal shall no thier sire or faimily. They are thier faimily and close friends, and the dragons are thier warring gods and far off kings. Nothing else allows the survival of the realm.
that royal philosiphy for you:smallsmile:

Wariors

You have no single faimily. Every living kobold is you faimily. The royals are your wise elders, to be prtected and obeyed without question. The workers are your baby brothers, to be protected from the worlds dangers. Your fellow wariors are your siblings, parentsand children, obey those wiser and more powerful than you, guide and protect those weaker than you. To know a single faimily is to care more about one group than the rest.
Worker

no-one has the time or intrest:smallbiggrin:
more to come.

[Vadin]

On the bloodline thing, I'm not gonna lie: I was just really bored. When turned into more or less abstract concepts, though, i think they work fairly well. The comment about classes, though, got me thinking: what are we going to do about fighters? Is it appropriate to the setting to have a class that can automatically use heavy armor (which has been previously mentioned as being hard to find and rather rare)? And weapons- having started my d20 experience with SWd20, I can say without hesitation weapon group proficiencies work so much better than individual proficiencies.

Tartaraus, any chance we might rebalance (those human feats) and that fighter variant you did awhile ago to be in line with the current power level/reflect training with different cultures and styles within those cultures?

And the rogue...has anything been decided on that? My vote is still for different selectable class features (more or less substitution levels) to pick aspects of a bond rogue, an indiana jones rogue, a court jester rogue, and a conan rogue (yes, conan totally had to have taken levels in rogue-they all must have), but thats just me.

[Lord Tataraus]

Tartaraus, any chance we might rebalance (those human feats) and that fighter variant you did awhile ago to be in line with the current power level/reflect training with different cultures and styles within those cultures?
You mean my Martial Artist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63272)? Sure, that'll be fine, it should work about anywhere with a few tweaks since there is no defense bonus. Just draw up some style progressions.


And the rogue...has anything been decided on that? My vote is still for different selectable class features (more or less substitution levels) to pick aspects of a bond rogue, an indiana jones rogue, a court jester rogue, and a conan rogue (yes, conan totally had to have taken levels in rogue-they all must have), but thats just me.
It was decided to replace rogue with the scout. Scout is much more of a indiana jones rogue, I don't really know if the other aspects would really exist or would need a rogue, conan could've been a scout/ranger.

[Vadin]

Excellent. After a quick perusal of the styles already written up, there are a few that, imo, work just fine without any need for change.

Dragon Scholar
Hawk-Eye Sniper
Mantis Fencer
Serpent Strangler
Tiger Blade
Wind Warrior


As far as flavor goes, its the human's art. The Confederacy, after beginning cultural and social exchanges with the Kobolds, was incredibly interested in blade magic. Unfortunately, those humans who trained in it were sworn to secrecy, unable to pass the art on outside of a Kobold monastary. They could, however, demonstrate what they knew without giving explanations. After observing these examples, several warriors picked up a few secrets. Their mastery, however, was far less magical and infinitely more martial. They are to Blade Scholars what Duskblades are to Wizards.

[puppyavenger]

done philosiphy, my question on alignment still stands, heres a short history of the empire.

When the Green hit, the kobolds were in the best place to survive it. The workers were all miners by trade, so they lived mostly underground and the area was cleared of mold. The soon-to-be Royals were mostly mages and archeoligists, so they were likewise protected and any greens were killed off by thier guards and magic. The surviving royals clustered around the main sites they had been studieing, the 10 tombs of sleeping dragons that they believed to be thier ancestors. Useing the magi-tech they had with them to break into the tombs, they discoverd that the dragons were very much alive, but in a deep coma.

Useing thier magic, the Royals discoverd that they could read the dragons dreams and thoughts. Useing these prophetic dreams, they claimed control of the kobolds through divine right. Building up safe zones around the tombs, the soiciety slowly converted into dragon worship, with uninteligent royals, enicialy, being killed out of lack of food and resources, now being killed out being unable to speak to the dragons.
Today, the civilisation flourishes, in a way, having a monopaly on metal and being ruled by compenent rulers.

[Vadin]

<Double post>

[puppyavenger]

uber post.

[Vadin]

<Triple Post>

[Aptera]

On the issue of language, I've always thought the Imperium would be more military, and therefore there speech might have some more influence from military teminology. I also like the idea of a conlag. Can we make it Newspeaky? And I think Dwarves should have their own language. Plus the Norther island Dwarves and the westenr Dwarves should speak differently. And why should Gnomes and Orc have sperate languages? It would be simpler if they both spoke Gnork with different accents.

Should the Imperium and the Confederacy have different pantheons? I think so.

Is the Imperium Illuminati okay? Just want some others to say yes or no.

Another random thought on the Southeastern coast: That island looks like a place where there would be a stable goverment. perhaps a pirate ruled island? Or an isle of sailors and fishermen where anything goes as long as ou don't hurt commerce.

There should be a massive decaying bridge across the straight to the northern island.

[puppyavenger]

Excellent. After a quick perusal of the styles already written up, there are a few that, imo, work just fine without any need for change.

Dragon Scholar
Hawk-Eye Sniper
Mantis Fencer
Serpent Strangler
Tiger Blade
Wind Warrior


As far as flavor goes, its the human's art. The Confederacy, after beginning cultural and social exchanges with the Kobolds, was incredibly interested in blade magic. Unfortunately, those humans who trained in it were sworn to secrecy, unable to pass the art on outside of a Kobold monastary. They could, however, demonstrate what they knew without giving explanations. After observing these examples, several warriors picked up a few secrets. Their mastery, however, was far less magical and infinitely more martial. They are to Blade Scholars what Duskblades are to Wizards.

So are these replacing fighter, palidans and rangers, as the class says, if so than it can't be uniquly human, and if not than fighters are goingto be a bit shafted.

[Lord Tataraus]

On alignment, I personally always ignore it. I've never used it in a game and it always seems much better off. I do use it to help define a character in the creation, phase but otherwise it does nothing. That is my view, others may have different opinions.

Also, not only do gnorks and gnomes speak the same language, but so do kobolds. At least, that is how I outlined it in my language monologue. As for the Imperium conlang, it should be a logical language, so no one but fanatical supporters would ever think of using it. Logical languages are the easiest to create and the worst to communicate in. Perfect for an ordered society.

I will also support the Imperium Illuminate, just them something slightly different, like the Imperium Inquisition or the Imperium Intell.

I don't think the Confederacy or Imperium have pantheons, for the most part there is very little religion, only a few groups recognize a god and I imagine they don't recognize the others. I think the Confederacy would be tolerant and have temples to both the Gnork and Halfling gods for the citizens to choose, while the Imperium encourages secularism, denying the existence of any power greater than themselves.

[puppyavenger]

On alignment, I personally always ignore it. I've never used it in a game and it always seems much better off. I do use it to help define a character in the creation, phase but otherwise it does nothing. That is my view, others may have different opinions.


okay then, so anyone have any thoughts on the philosiphy or history?

[Lord Tataraus]

So are these replacing fighter, palidans and rangers, as the class says, if so than it can't be uniquly human, and if not than fighters are goingto be a bit shafted.

Well, the warden already replaced the paladin and I think ranger can stay in because of favored enemy and scout synergy, but this is supposed to replace the fighter. I don't know about the human only, who says only humans are in the Confederacy? Gnorks and Halflings should be able to take the class as well.

[Vadin]

So are these replacing fighter, palidans and rangers, as the class says, if so than it can't be uniquly human, and if not than fighters are goingto be a bit shafted.

They are indeed replacing (for the Confederacy, at least) most fighters. Rangers can stay, they're quite different. It should be restated at this point that the Confederacy isn't uniquely human, it's just predominantly human. There are orcs, kobolds, halflings, gatelings, gnorks, humans, a few dwarves, and even a few stranger races in the Confederacy. They are, after all, just that- a loosely affiliated confederation of like-minded political bodies. Though most members of the Council Governing are human, it is typically customary to ensure at least one of the members of the Economic Triumvirate is a kobold, and it isn't uncommon for all of them to be. Yes, the Economic, Municipal, Judicial, Knowledge, and Order Triumvirates are all fairly diverse groups. A note on these Triumvirates who form the Council Governing (along with the Overseer Elect): Economic manages taxes and trade abroad (loosely), Municipal governs the growth of cities and creation thereof, Judicial controls the courts and holds the power to (if all three agree) veto certain types of decisions made by the Council, Knowledge runs the public schools, Universities, and Temples (religious and martial), and Order controls the police force and holds the power to keep the others in check.

Why have I been proposing things where the leadership is split up into groups? Cultural memories. Even thousands of years later, culture still holds by the maxim 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and, as such, people try and avoid giving responsibility to only one person in highly important matters.

The Imperium, of course, disagrees, and is ruled by the Imperator, whose word is law. Under him, governing sectors of each island, are the Preators (Pr-eye-tors) who can issue any laws they want so long as those laws don't conflict with the Imperator's will. This leads to a great disparity in civillian freedoms and amounts of lawfulness on many islands (sort of like Haiti and the Dominican Republic- same island, very different standards of living (unless I'm remembering wrong)).

[tsuuga]

Well, if martial artist replaces the fighter... downgrade fighter to a NPC class, replacing warrior. That seems like its rightful place, anyway. :smalltongue:

Bleah, my brain is fried tonight.

We should come up with hard-and-fast rules for WBL, equipment availability, and spell selection.

[Vadin]

Tsuuga: I was actually thinking that too while I typed the post. Great minds, eh?

In other news, what's the community's opinion on magic item availability? My vote is for not very-at level 10, a +2 weapon and a minor wondrous item, a +1 weapon and some magic armor, or something similar would be about appropriate (that's how I run it in my low-magic games, at least. It should also be noted, however, that I don't allow any of the core full casters except sorcerer (who can use any of the core full casters' spells)).

[jagadaishio]

I would say no magic weapons unless you can salvage them or afford to purchase them from an antiques vendor.

[Lord Tataraus]

In other news, what's the community's opinion on magic item availability? My vote is for not very-at level 10, a +2 weapon and a minor wondrous item, a +1 weapon and some magic armor, or something similar would be about appropriate (that's how I run it in my low-magic games, at least. It should also be noted, however, that I don't allow any of the core full casters except sorcerer (who can use any of the core full casters' spells)).

My problem with the limiting of magic items is that it is not very well supported in the system. D&D assumes you will have about WBL, this makes low magic difficult, but not impossible. So, let's think this through logically. First off, 99% of all magic items will be relics from the pre-Green era and because of that, I doubt many will be weapons. In fact, I think there would be extremely few magical weapons, though many of the other forms of magical equipment. Stat boosting items (Steroids-on, steroids-off! Never get caught with Wizzy's Strength boosting sweat bands! Wear them during the competition and take them off before testing and be sure to use Wizzy's magical residue remover to avoid all detection! No more one-shot potions with the risk of being caught, try new Wizzy's Strength-boosting sweat bands, they look completely harmless and are completely washer-friendly! Wizzy's Inc. is not liable for any lawsuits or loss of titles and does not encourage illegal use of this product, use at your own risk. Side effects may include dizziness, diarrhea, abdominal pain, excessive weight gain and loss of anger control. In rare cases subjects became sterile, if you experience difficultly in sexual activity please consult your doctor immediately.) would be very popular as would many other items and could be found in abundance by those willing to take the risk. In fact, the magical item trade could be a very successful business venture and could prove to be an interesting campaign idea, collect items to sell, not use. The trouble then lies with the magical weapons, though there are ways around that as well. (http://www.rpghomebrews.com/mundane_item_enhancement.php)

[Vadin]

I agree, most pre-Green items would be wondrous items (Why use makeup when you can Alter! No more messy spots, Alterware takes care of any sort of facial feature!) and stat boosting items, but there would be plenty of industrial use items as well. At-will burning hands? Welding! Gust of Wind? Street cleaning! And so on and so forth. Many of these items the pre-Green people wouldn't even have thought of using as a weapon (no more than we think of a jackhammer as an effective homicide tool), though later people wouldn't see much other use for them.

So, things that are likely: stat-boosters, constant non-combat spells, at-will combat spells in the form of gauntlets/helmets (things you can take on and of easily and don't need a lot of training to use).

On weapons...I can see three groups having magic weapons. The aristocracy (who've been passing down these swords for generations), the police (dazzle arrows-1d4 damage and stun for just as long), and criminals (an old concept but a great one-spell guns (basically just easily reloadable wands)). So you would find these things in old rich high rises and bank vaults, ancient government buildings, and in honest to green ruins/handed down just like the aristocrats did ("This was my daddy's silent night dagger, and someday it'll be yours, too").

But yeah, mundane item enhancement system ftw.

[Lord Tataraus]

On weapons...I can see three groups having magic weapons. The aristocracy (who've been passing down these swords for generations), the police (dazzle arrows-1d4 damage and stun for just as long), and criminals (an old concept but a great one-spell guns (basically just easily reloadable wands)). So you would find these things in old rich high rises and bank vaults, ancient government buildings, and in honest to green ruins/handed down just like the aristocrats did ("This was my daddy's silent night dagger, and someday it'll be yours, too").
Yeah...I kind of thought "wait, criminals..." after I wrote that out, but still. I think they would still be relatively rare, the current powers would have taken as many as possible to arm their militaries and deprive others of them, the good ol' arms race. The spell-gun does seem interesting...though I'm sure ammunition is low.


But yeah, mundane item enhancement system ftw.
I always feel so arrogant when I promote that system :smallfrown: , though it is the best homebrew I've ever made imo, it is completely integrated into 2 D20-based systems that I know of already and it works wonderfully.

[tsuuga]

Great minds, eh?
Great minds fry alike.


In other news, what's the community's opinion on magic item availability? My vote is for not very-at level 10, a +2 weapon and a minor wondrous item, a +1 weapon and some magic armor, or something similar would be about appropriate (that's how I run it in my low-magic games, at least. It should also be noted, however, that I don't allow any of the core full casters except sorcerer (who can use any of the core full casters' spells)).

On the matter of iron:
I think it's generally assumed that iron is a precious commodity in this setting because the previous civilization mined it out, and what's left is either holding up a building or rusted away. I think this should be reflected. Therefore, stone (usually flint or obsidian) is the weaponmaking material of choice. Steel is a superior material because steel armor (and any type of heavy armor, metal or not) grants the wearer DR/metal. (Steel shields do not grant DR. They cost +5 GP/pound)

Alternately to DR, stone weapons instead have damage penalties as listed in the DMG (-2 to attack and damage, or, and I think this is more reasonable, -1 to light weapons, -2 to 1-handed weapons, -3 to 2-handed weapons.)

{table=head]Armor|DR|new cost
Chain Shirt|1|225
Scale Mail|1|200
Chain Mail|2|450
Breastplate|2|500
Splint Mail|2|550
Banded Mail|3|625
Half plate|4|1250
Full Plate|5|2250
[/table]

Stone is more fragile and harder to shape than steel, and thus is limited in the weapons it can be made into. The following weapons can be made without access to steel:
{table=head]Simple|Martial|Exotic
|Throwing Axe|Nunchaku
Dagger|Light Hammer|Sai
Punching Dagger|Sap|Siangham
Light Mace|Light Shield|Dwarven Waraxe
Club|Battleaxe|Whip|Orc Double Axe
Heavy Mace|Heavy Shield|Bolas
Shortspear|Warhammer|Net
Longspear|Greataxe|Shuriken
Quarterstaff|Greatclub
Spear|Ranseur
Dart|Longbow (regular or composite)
Javelin|Shortbow (regular or composite)
Sling|Arrows
Bullets|Bolts[/table]

Bolas and Saps bypass DR/metal, and are never made with steel. Whips and nets are never made with steel either, and thus never bypass DR/metal. Bows are not made with steel, they instead use the properties of their ammunition. Crossbows do require steel mechanisms, but the cost is negligible.

Steel weapons cost an extra 5 GP per pound.


In other news, what's the community's opinion on magic item availability? My vote is for not very-at level 10, a +2 weapon and a minor wondrous item, a +1 weapon and some magic armor, or something similar would be about appropriate (that's how I run it in my low-magic games, at least. It should also be noted, however, that I don't allow any of the core full casters except sorcerer (who can use any of the core full casters' spells)).

Well, how does the GM control this? Is wealth-by-level simply reduced by say, half? Do you increase the rate at which you value magic items (say, weapons cost double the cube of the bonus instead of the square). Do they get non-magical neat stuff, like an adamantine weapon? It'd be easy to just throw wealth into tattoos instead of magic items, but I'd kind of like them to be a non-standard thing. If we're taking power from PCs, though, it's got to be taken into account by CR. How common are PC-classed individuals, and at what level?

Changing PC classes to ToB-esque classes that are more on par with mages goes a long way towards balancing a low magic game

If you wanted to, you could just run the campaign world as low-magic up through about level 5. There's magic items out there, but you can't buy them for love or money. You might encounter a few mages, but they're either noncombatants or enemies, and you'll never run into someone over level 3-5 who isn't an exceptional person. Once your party dings level 5, they start to spend time raiding ancient dungeons, and catch up on magic loot. They may be able to get way over the value for such rare goods if they decide to sell, if they find a buyer who can actually afford it. And what are they going to spend it on, anyway? There's no better equipment available to buy than what they've got. This also implies that the art of making magic items has died out.

If you just don't want fighters with flaming swords and exploding necklaces and magic bags of rodents, you can just severely limit the selection of magic items. Swords only come in +1, +2, +3... and maybe have an enchantment that adds an extra 1d6 of the same type of damage that the weapon already does. The same goes for armor. you can only add pluses and fortification. Passive magic items like bracers of giant strength or cloaks of resistance can be allowed... or you can just let players purchase equivalent training for the same amount.

Also, the Dungeonomicon (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=659653) is a pretty cool look at how D&D works as an iron age setting.

Edit: In response to the "magic weapons are a rarity" thing:
Base D&D is set in a world a lot like europe of 1000-1600 AD, depending on who you ask, right? And our world is 5000 or so years after the demise of an approximately modern civilization, yet buildings are still standing due to anti-weathering and earthquake endurance spells. So, if magic weapons do exist... why not magic weapons from 5400-6000 years ago? Surely, if you're going to invest 1000 GP into a +1 sword (i.e., it stays preternaturally sharp), you'll invest 10 GP to make it rustproof... Chances are, ancient magic weapons are still around. They're just buried in museum vaults, unopened barrows, at the bottom of a lake, or under the rubble of a building (why the crap do I keep typing "buildling"?).


I always feel so arrogant when I promote that system
Heh. It is a great homebrew. I was trying to recall that when I was writing some of the above... that'll teach me to write for two hours and not check the thread again.:smalltongue:

[puppyavenger]

Heres a list of standard ranks for kobolds, and what they mean
Dragonspeaker: the most powerful prophet in a dragonhold, the most respected and influential, must have more levels in sorceror than any other kobold in the hold
Prophet: Any prophet,a repected and influential postion that is essentialy above the law. must have levels in sorceror
conciler: one of a circle of royals that governs with the prophets, they are the most powerful and influential non-prophets in the hold. Must be within the tope-(number of members on concil) of the most powerful wizard in the city.
Royal: any royal that is not one of the above ranks. must be a royal with levels in wizard.
Hounerd Prismatic Master: The leader of a royals honour guard contigent, they are the most powerful blade scholors in their company. Must be an honour guard with more levels in blade scholor than any other member of the company.
Hounerd Prismatic. One of a royals honour guard, they generaly retrain thier fighter levels into blade scholor ones. Must be an honour guard with levels in blade scholor.
Imperial Commander: the high commander of a given Dragon Holds military, He has purple crest and is generaly at least competent in fighting. He must be a purple crest warior with at least five levels in fighter.
more to come.
And here are some ideas on kobold religion.

The sun is the ultimite evil
The dragons were driven underground by horible demons in ages past
The dragon who's tomb is closest to the suface is considerd the "guardian" who defends the darkness from the great evil
The dragon is gold
gold is considerd the "guardian" or "absorbing" metal, whcih spreads light but doeasn't allow it to come through
The portal aboveground is blocked by a massive golden wall, a literal "golden gate"
gold is the metal of binding, impurity, and protection.
gold is not used as thier currency

more to come.

[Vadin]

I'm not sure how I feel about kobolds being anti-sun. Just because they live underground doesn't mean they hate the light. After all, they function perfectly well both above and below the soil. I'm also not so sure about their dominant religion having a large number of absolutes.

Look at it from the kobold view (all social classes): Nothing in life is certain but the dragon. We are born with loosely affiliated parents, we make friends who can help us succeed, we find joy where and when we can, and we die. This is the underpinning of their lives. They all know it. There's no hiding from it.

At the same time, however, they aren't trapped in their position. Those that show proficiency in magic can ascend to royalty, and those who are skilled in war can escape the mines. For the kobold masses, life is a challenge, and the victors ascend.

Perhaps their religion's view of life after death is somewhat akin to the Roman's: the wicked are punished, others are rewarded, and the best of the best are reborn. Change this around a little and the wicked are punished, the moral rewarded, the unskilled left in a purgatory like realm (which resembles the Material Realm) until they can prove themselves (they can end up good or wicked), and the most gifted are reborn as that which they excelled in.

Not only does this reinforce some of the independence the royals seek to encourage, it also gives them a reason to off their own when they prove incompetent.

Maybe (just maybe) there's actually some truth to this for Kobolds. A few feats they could take that either bring back skills from their previous lives or enhance the skills they have now might not be out of place.

[Lord Tataraus]

I'm with Vadin on this one. The kobolds should not fear/hate the sun. The kobolds are knowledgeable and scientific in many ways, they have degraded the least and would realize that their homes are sheltered by the trees and the would realize that the forest thrives because of the sun, the sun is a blessing. I think the kobolds would take a very secular and scientific view of the world, revering only the dragons in any religious manner and even then I doubt they worship them as gods. Some might take on the gods of others, but they are few and only within the Confederacy.

One the subject of the availability of iron, it would actually be very prevalent, even more so than in a natural world. There could have been vehicles or other large, unpreserved objects made of iron. These would rust and create layers and layers of iron-oxide on the jungle floor, waiting for someone to dredge it up and refine it. Other metals like aluminum and titanium would also be less rare than normal settings because they have be pre-refined and thus easier to return to their refined state. The same goes for copper, tin, silver, gold, and platinum. The metals are everywhere, and you don't have to dig far to find them. The deserts would be chock full of metals in a more preserved state thanks to low humidity. As for currency, the barter system would be used by non-structured societies, while the others would use the normal metals as well as a few other items, such as shells and glass in the western desert. Maybe the confederacy could have paper money.

[puppyavenger]

I'm not sure how I feel about kobolds being anti-sun. Just because they live underground doesn't mean they hate the light. After all, they function perfectly well both above and below the soil. I'm also not so sure about their dominant religion having a large number of absolutes.



umm.. light sensitivity..
anyway hows this

there used to be a dragon for ever facet of life
In the begining, there were three dragons, who interacted and from the interactions came the world, and from the world came more dragons
as inteligence progressed, half-dragons began to apear, and over the ages the bloodline became kobolds.
The Royals had a spark of thier magic, and thus were the closest to thier power
The wariors were gifted with a piece of thier strength, and as such protected the Royals, just as the dragons used thier sregth to protect and augument themselves.
The workers were gifted with a shred of thier skill with creation, so they were given the task of building
Eventualy humanity and its off-shoots came to the fore, and with them new dragons of belief and morality, well all those before had been pure forces of nature.
destruction, fear and pettyness are more often in humanities minds than hope or chivilry, so there was a dragon for every facet of evil while only a few general one for charit, i.e charit versus, greed, embeselement, gluttony, laughing in the face of orphans, etc.
THrough this, humantiy came to hate the dragons of thier own creation, and then all dragons.
not all evil looks so, indeed the most powerful ones looked angelic, so foolish humans turned to them to destroy the rest of the dragons.
and a war raged through heaven...
in the end The great ones banished all others to other dimensions, out of space, time, logic, reason, magic and all other aspects of reality.
Greatly weakend, they stopped the creation of new dragons and went into a deep coma under the earth

[Vadin]

Wait...they have light sensitivity? Seriously?

How could they function in a daiurnal society and achieve anything greater than minimum wage?

I'll go so far as to accept, nay, support, that kobolds feel more comfortable in caves and tunnels, but I'm not sure about light sensitivity. Personally, its always felt out of place for everything but purely cavernous monsters. I mean, seriously, why do orcs and kobolds have it? Because they like caves? Bats live in caves and come out at night, but they can actually see in the daylight just fine (they're just easily scared and choose flight over fight in most situations)!

Can we call a vote for removing light sensitivity from kobolds (they don't have infravision, and other races interact with them in the underdark, which would necessitate those others being able to see-from this it can be inferred that kobolds at least maintain regular periods of at least minimal lighting)?

[Aptera]

@ Vadin: I disagree with your version of the Confederate goverment. I think the Confederacy should be very loose. Sure everyone sends a representative to the capital, but they can do pretty much whatevre they feel like. more like the UN then the USA.

[puppyavenger]

Wait...they have light sensitivity? Seriously?

How could they function in a daiurnal society and achieve anything greater than minimum wage?

I'll go so far as to accept, nay, support, that kobolds feel more comfortable in caves and tunnels, but I'm not sure about light sensitivity. Personally, its always felt out of place for everything but purely cavernous monsters. I mean, seriously, why do orcs and kobolds have it? Because they like caves? Bats live in caves and come out at night, but they can actually see in the daylight just fine (they're just easily scared and choose flight over fight in most situations)!

Can we call a vote for removing light sensitivity from kobolds (they don't have infravision, and other races interact with them in the underdark, which would necessitate those others being able to see-from this it can be inferred that kobolds at least maintain regular periods of at least minimal lighting)?

I think that it probably adapted along with the darkvision, anyway, I think that the workers were generaly miners, living exclusivly underground, and the surviving Royals were mostly Archeoligist researching the Dragon0Barrows, and other such stuff.

[Lord Tataraus]

@ Vadin: I disagree with your version of the Confederate goverment. I think the Confederacy should be very loose. Sure everyone sends a representative to the capital, but they can do pretty much whatevre they feel like. more like the UN then the USA.

I think you're right. Looking over the triumvirates Vadin drew up, its seem like a bit much. It should be closer to the UN or more appropriately, the EU. Currently there are 5 triumvirates: Economic, Municipal, Judicial, Knowledge, and Order. Economic and Judicial I have no problem with at all. A joined economy makes trade so much easier and Order would ensure a set of standards. Policing, education, and creation of cities should be left up to the cities and groups that make up the Confederacy, it is a Confederacy after all, not a nation. I would suggest that a military or protection triumvirate make it three triumvirates, it is always a good idea to have one large military rather than a number of smaller militaries with allegiance to smaller states instead of the whole.

[Vadin]

@ Vadin: I disagree with your version of the Confederate goverment. I think the Confederacy should be very loose. Sure everyone sends a representative to the capital, but they can do pretty much whatevre they feel like. more like the UN then the USA.

It is very loose. The individual political units are all independent, but they all also belong to the Confederacy. The Triumvirates are just like committees in the UN, but more permanent. People get elected to them every other year, and they head up various organizations that work within and among all of the different city states. They don't wield absolute and broad reaching power, but they do strongly advise things and directly control several institutions (like the small standing army (to which each city sends a few troops), the public primary schools (sometimes lovingly dubbed "Wizard's Charities", as they are staffed almost entirely by volunteers from arcane university (kind of like the peace corps-crazy college kids mostly)), the universities, and the exchange rate (their paper currency's (it has trace amounts of magic to prevent forgery) worth in ounces of mythril)). Beyond that, the political bodies are all independent.

But yeah, the number of triumvirates could be cut down. I actually originally had five up with different names, but then changed them all around when typing and was too lazy to fix it when I realized some were doing the same thing. Also, I didn't want another three thing after the Wars, Weirds, and Wise. Maybe we could cut it down to four?

[Aptera]

@Vadin: Sorry for misunderstanding you. The way you described it wasn't clear.

Municipal and order seem too centralized for my tastes. Any village should be able to call itself a city, whether or not they send a guy along the treacherous roads to the capital (we really need names) and their vote is worth anything is entirely different. Why don't we have a Military (also in charge of Road wardens) Knowledge, Economic. maybe magic? To make sure villages get sorcerers and that powerful evil magic items are not being passed around willy nilly. And Prophecies.

looking at the map I notice that the center of the Confederacy is a swamp, which I originally thought was a lake. I suggest the confederacy be organized around this swamp, and that much of it have navigable paths. Navigable by shallow bottomed boats like canoes or Kayaks or just mats. I now have this idea for the capital city to be at the place where the swamp narrows away from it's ,large lake. and built on a few relatively dry Islands. But most of its people live on large mats of reeds, sometimes piled high with dirt for gardens, but often just left dry floating on the water. if you guys don't want it to be the capital then i think we can use it as another city in the Confederacy,

My idea for Reed City:
Reed City is one of the larger cities in the Confederation. It lies at the point where the swamp narrows forming what looks lie a river which then flows into the sea. here the swamp become deeper and more easily navigable and Reed City represents as far as a ship can go up before having to unload its cargo and put it on a canoe. Reed city is bit upon six major islands spread out in an arc, with the tallest one (15ft off the ground!) in the west to the lower one in the east and with the largest in the center.. There are also a smattering of some small natural bumps like sandbanks and the odd rock. Each of these islands is covered in buildings, and they total about a square mile. They are also not where most people live. Reed City is actually dominated by a massive series of platforms made from the giant reeds* that grow around the lake reaching 8-10ft. tall and a few inches thick. These are woven and then placed attached to the islands. Houses of reeds are built on these mats and boats are also built. Because portions of the mats and houses have to be replaced every year buy reed city looks like a strange combination of greens and browns plus the blue and green water that surrounds it.

Most people in Reed City boat their way to other islands and often other houses, if they don't need something dry. Since the city constantly deals with floods most things in peoples houses are high above the floor and waterproof meaning that most people can just swim to a place. Either way the area around Reed City is filled with boats of all sizes. Ther is no “market” like in other cities only a confused garble of boats swarming around looking for customers. Boats of, fruit, ducks and geese, strange books and magical items float around the center of the isles. Smaller boats float around this confused hectic mass where the real business of the city takes place, in the back tea boats where old men and women play dice games and the rafters are thick with smoke. Or in the strange magic shops thick with odd smells and deep hushed voices


*Much bigger then earth reeds. Just a strange native fauna.

Randomness done.

[Lord Tataraus]

looking at the map I notice that the center of the Confederacy is a swamp, which I originally thought was a lake. I suggest the confederacy be organized around this swamp, and that much of it have navigable paths. Navigable by shallow bottomed boats like canoes or Kayaks or just mats. I now have this idea for the capital city to be at the place where the swamp narrows away from it's ,large lake. and built on a few relatively dry Islands. But most of its people live on large mats of reeds, sometimes piled high with dirt for gardens, but often just left dry floating on the water. if you guys don't want it to be the capital then i think we can use it as another city in the Confederacy

It isn't really a swamp, just very moist. Only the rainforest area has significant amounts of water covering the floor. However, the Reed City could work well at the lake.

I've decided to go ahead and position some settlements:
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/7619/cogmapsettlementspa4.png

{table=head]#|Name|Affiliation|Racial Make Up
1||Confederacy|Human, Halfling, Goblin, Gnork, Kobold
2||Confederacy|Human, Halfling, Goblin, Gnork, Kobold
3||Confederacy|Human, Halfling, Goblin, Gnork, Kobold
4||Confederacy|Human, Halfling, Goblin, Gnork, Kobold
5|University City (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4010660&postcount=271)|Confederacy|Human, Halfling, Goblin, Gnork, Kobold
6|Aldrheim|Confederacy|Human, Halfling, Goblin, Gnork, Kobold
7||Confederacy|Human, Halfling, Goblin, Gnork, Kobold
8||Confederacy|Human, Halfling, Goblin, Gnork, Kobold
9|||
10|||
11|||
12|||
13|Lich's Tower (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025633&postcount=326)|Independent|All
14|Reed City (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4023195&postcount=319)||
15|||
16|||
17|Villtier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025090&postcount=322)|Independent|Halfling
18|Jundom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025683&postcount=327)|Independent|Human, Half-Elf
19|Tarthana wisGathril (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025772&postcount=328)|United Elven Tribes|Red Elf
20|O'Sahr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4078131&postcount=358)|Independent|Dwarf
21|Newera City (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4033321&postcount=332)|Imperium|Human, Gnork
22|Boat Town (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4010660&postcount=271)|Independent|Human, Dwarf, Gnork
23||Imperium|Human, Gnork
24||Imperium|Human, Gnork[/table]

I can add or remove settlements as you guys wish. I listed the Affiliations as I assumed they would be. So, start filling out the table.

[Aptera]

GAH! I thought the Confederacy was much farther north. I feel very stupid. :redface:

[Vadin]

Before anyone else grabs this one...

17 is Villtier (VILL-TEAR), a small but prominent halfling community. But isn't that in a lake, you might ask? Why, yes. Yes it is. Over a few generations, vines were coaxed across the lake until they formed, in the center, a fairly impressive lattice. Small trees were then placed across, and the vines grew around those, strengthening the structure. With a firm base, soil was added on top until the whole thing resembled an island. Plants were then encouraged to grow. The vine base, at this point, couldn't support the island growing on top of it. It began to sag, and the island dipped into the water. With access to huge amounts of water, the young saplings on the island grew large very quickly. Seeing the results of their handiwork, the halflings added sails to the bases of many outlying trees and placed a tiller underneath the island. In essence, they had created a small, moving section of jungle capable of supporting a family. They repeated the process many times. Finally, each family lived upon its own floating island. More were created as markets, workshops, temples, and more. The islands were then linked via a series of rope bridges, and a master command island placed at the front, capable of steering Villtier and raising/lowering the sails with magic.

Night falls as you approach the lake. Instead of the empty expense of water you expected, however, you see a forest. A forest of lights and what appears to be flags. Unable to reach these islands in the water, you and your companions camp on the shore, hoping to learn more about what could be the renowned city of Villtier in the morning. As the sun dawns, you rise, eager for answers. Unfortunately, this part of the lake seems empty. There's no sign of any floating city. Could it have been an illusion, some reawekening of ancient magics? Maybe, you think. But...wait...of in the distance there...is that a giant turtle? Or is it...excited to have tracked down the elusive city, you and your friends make a mad dash for Villtier, city on the lake.

And yes, it does move around outside of location 17. That's just where it started. I'm not sure about the fluff (I'm feeling a tad under the weather), though. The place is kind of mythic, but at the same time very real, much like Chichen Itza. Astounding and unbelievable, yet all the more true because of it.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Grabbing 18.

I'll write some fluff for it once I finish homework, though I already have my ideas.

[tsuuga]

This goes way back to the first time you posted this map, but... what color is olive yellow? I'm... guessing it's the color of the four blobs near the cities of the confederacy?

[Lord Tataraus]

This goes way back to the first time you posted this map, but... what color is olive yellow? I'm... guessing it's the color of the four blobs near the cities of the confederacy?

Correct, Olive Yellow (signifying savanna/grasslands) is the color of the four blobs where the Confederacy is as well as the area around #21 and #22 and the small central bit in the northern island.

@ Aptera: I figured you were confused, which is part of the reason I made that map.

@ Vadin, Interesting, though it does defeat the purpose of the map...figures you do something like that :smalltongue:

[jagadaishio]

I call 13.

13 is a two mile high skyscraper, one of the most well-preserved in the entire world. The reason it's so well preserved is because the block on which it was built was one of those small pockets of space unaffected by the greening. At the top of the building is the glass-walled penthouse discussed on the first page (like Gail Wynand's penthouse, for anyone who's read The Fountainhead). The lich who lives in the immaculate, high-culture penthouse is true neutral, brought on by centuries of self-imposed isolation. He views the entire building as his personal property, from the ground floor to the glass-walled apartment at the top.

The lich is the king, the judge, and the lawmaker within his domain. Any person who wants to live in his building, a great thing because of the protection he provides them, must first pass an extensive interview process held by the lich personally. Less than 5% of applicants are allowed entrance.

Within lives a small community, untouched by violence or savagery. All of the menial labor is performed by animated skeletons, including basic guard work and tending the high-altitude orchards which dot many of the middle stories. The lich himself would be friendly, approachable, and on first name terms with every single inhabitant of the building. He would also keep a small personal library of magical and historical tomes, and once every century he would take an apprentice to study under his tutelage.

Nobody would know more about the past than this community. But it is almost completely isolationist, meaning that information doesn't leak out. The one thing which the lich refuses to share any information on, even with his citizens, is the greening. He goes silent and sad for a few minutes after being asked anything about it.

This would be the fourth possible origin of a wizard, after the Kobold lands, the Imperium, and the Confederacy.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Settlement 18 is a smallish town, mainly consisting of humans, but with a smattering of half-elves. Ruled by an elected Mayor and an appointed Captain, Settlement 18, known as Jundom, primarily consists of buildings of wood, being the most accessible resource. Jundom is just outside what once was the City, with almost all traces now gone. A great wooden wall was built across the cities border with the forest, surrounding the North, East, and South sides of the city, however, to the West, there is no border, because the main enemy of the Jundomer's are the Elves. Elven raids are the primary source of death among the Jundomer's, and they live in constant fear, and alertness, ready to grab arms and rush to the Barracksroom. It is a sad existance, as two struggling culture's combat each other.

I'll write more tomorrow.

And now, it's tomorrow.

Full Democracy only exists with small, stable populations. Though this town is small, it is not stable. However, it's small enough for some level of democracy. Every so often, at no certain interval, but usually every few months, a new Mayor is elected. The Mayor officially holds noones council but his own, but often is unnofficially advised by his close friends.

[Lord Tataraus]

#19

Tarthana wisGathril literally: City [of] (disordered/chaotic/violent) Death there is no perfect translation

"Why am I alive?" I asked that question to myself for the past few weeks, expecting to be tortured, beaten, raped, eaten, something but nothing happened. It has been two, maybe three weeks since those beasts raided my village, only I survived. I must have been special in some way, that's why they kept me alive, but for what? Later that night they took me out of my cage, those savage beasts looked at me like some sort of prey, I could tell those sex-starved men longed to take me, but controlled themselves. A beautiful woman approaches, she is heavily tattooed like the men, but is graceful and terrifying, maybe it is the squad of loyal men who follow to her with savage eyes and obedient eyes. She orders something in their strange tongue and immediately I am bound, hooded, and gagged, I hear their hungry breathing. Strong arms carry me, to where, I know not. After a long travel, night then day, now night again, the hood is removed and I gasp. There before me is a splendid city, a meshing a grand homes of the ancients, cleaned and refurbished. Gold and sliver line the streets and a temple. It is to the temple that I am carried and their I am offered to a great queen of these elves. I join the mass of other offerings, all female like myself, but of varying races. Soon the men howl and the women chant, the queen speaks and the elven men grab us, silver blades...I am horrified, the torture, I scream until I loss my voice, I want to die, but I must wait, three days and nights they say....kill me now...

Tarthana wisGathril, the name is spoken in awe and wonder, a fabled city of the savage elves, a city of grandeur and terror. It is said that the streets are paved with silver and gold with rivers of blood flowing through the streets. Rumors say they capture females of all races to torture, rape, and sacrifice in the name of elven superiority. The city is built out of the ancient elven homes preserved by their former owners and restored by the most powerful elven tribe lead by the Great Mother. All of the riches of the elves are stored here and it is here that the elves have their council, this city of death and carnage.

[tsuuga]

I claim #6 in the name of Aldrheim.

[puppyavenger]

Since no-one seems to have any complaints about my last list on kobold mytholagy, heres the remaining dragons

The Great guardian, The diomond Wyrm

The dragon closest to the surface, HE is asocieted with protection, walls, and abruation,
Royals view.
The base, the unbreakable wall to fall back on, the basic structure of the universe. He is the avatar of this. His thoughts are of guardianship and rebuilding, he seems to have sensed the Green even in his coma.
Warior View
He is our patron saint, The lord of protection. Just as his skin breaks that which tries to cut it, so shall we break those who try and destroy us. He held the great bastions during the War, and led them with justice and wisdom.
Worker View
He is the master of guardians, and by exstension the Lord of traps. He Protects the loyal and destroys the agressors. He is the lord of gateways and doors.


sorry couldn't finsh this yet, I finish him tonight.

[Aptera]

14 is Reed city.

[Lord Tataraus]

#21
Newera City
The Gem of the Imperium, the Land of Plenty, the City of Riches, known by many names Newera City deserves its titles. Newera City is home to 50% of the Imperium's population and has the strongest economy in all of Verfold. In addition to the large sentient population, the Island of Newera is home to the largest population of versteer, the gold of the island. Versteer a large, dumb herd beasts with low body fat and upkeep cost. The versteer roam the entire unpopulated open lands of the island, the largest ranch in Verfold. Owned and operated by a single company the Newera Ranch produces twice the amount of food needed to feed the entirety of the Imperium, consequently, most of the processed meat is shipped out of the harbor to Boat Town or the Confederacy in the most lucrative food trade in Verfold. Most of the population of Newera City is works in some fashion for Newera Ranch, either in the sluaghterhouses and processing plants or in the harbor. Such jobs are in high demand and pay better than most equal jobs. Because of this great wealth, Newera City is also home to the largest recreation industry in the Imperium spas,resorts, fairs, and art shows are the main attraction, however the city is better known for its sleazy taverns and whorehouses.

Comments?

[Vadin]

OK. Newara City gave me an idea. It goes along with but at the same time changes my previous idea and may or may not require/encourage a tiny bit of map changing. If we change the Western Islands into more of an archipelago, with many smaller islands (like Polynesia), every island could be home to one or two Corporations. These would work like before, with each island being governed as the Director saw fit, bit this time the Director would be at the head of the local Company. The Imperial Government would technically control all of the Companies, but only so far as appointing new Directors.

Has anyone here read Cerberus or Charon by Jack L. Chalker? They're part of the Four Lords of the Diamond quartet. Basically, though, on these worlds the governments oversee companies and govern how much each company should produce and how much business they'll get from the government that quarter.

In this Imperial setup, the Imperator and his aides would give contracts to each company based on past production values and how much profit they made. And why should the Directors listen to the Imperator, one might ask? It's simple, really. He has their children.

The first child and first son (often the same, but not always) of each Director attends the Imperial Academy from the age of 4 until they reach 20, ensuring they're more loyal to the Imperator himself than their biological parents.

Thoughts?

Also, how do you think a versteer would serve as a mount? Is there a wild version that's smarter/less dumb?

[Lord Tataraus]

*stuff*

Thoughts?
Actually, I was going off the Imperium Illuminate idea, the corporation is really one part of the illuminate which is in turn the government. Also, remember there are not too many people, we're talking about 100,000-150,000 max in the largest city in the world. That's 13-20% of the world population. We can't have too many cities or corporations, the economy just couldn't support that many. Newera City is one of the most advanced (if not the most advanced) cities in the world, corporations are relatively modern.


Also, how do you think a versteer would serve as a mount? Is there a wild version that's smarter/less dumb?
Think of a cross between a water buffalo and a wildebeest. Huge, tough and bovine. Not to mention domesticated and thus even dumber. Its intimidating, but not built for a rider, just food. The are accustomed to dry climates (i.e. Dry Earth on the map) and thus would be seen in the appropriate areas of the western desert in wild herds, though the largest and most stable population are on Newera Island. The herds wouldn't be anymore intelligent, but more cautious.

Edit: GAH! I used some of my conlang's grammar instead of english grammar in one part. Three articles are so much better than two :smallannoyed:

[Aptera]

Bump!

Not much to say really. I think we need a half elf right up, or did we agree not to have those?

[Lord Tataraus]

Bump!

Not much to say really. I think we need a half elf right up, or did we agree not to have those?

I think it was agreed that half-elves would exist in fluff only, they are mechanically humans. This is basically because a half-elf would only be born from very desperate male elves raping human women, but the elf would most likely kill the woman afterwards (never let one of those xenos get away alive) or if she somehow survived the elves would kill the child if they could, thus there are no elf-raised half-elves and so they are raised completely by humans and assume all those traits.

[Vadin]

Seconded, though there ought to be a feat that grants them some sort of elf-like ability for players that want to emphasize mechanically their elven roots.

Half-Elf [Human]
Benefit: You gain +1 Dexterity and -1 Charisma. In addition, you need not sleep, though you must enter a trancelike state for hours instead of resting. You also gain a +4 bonus against magical and non-magical sleep effects.
Special: If you take an additional -3 penalty to charisma and a -1 penalty to Wisdom, you can gain levels in the Red Elf Manhunter class. You also gain a further +1 bonus to Dexterity.

[jagadaishio]

This is a bit how I envision the parts of the jungle where buildings weren't preserved well. They would have fallen and created lots of ridges and slopes.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/row_gallery/86670.jpg

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

That works for me, though the suburbs would not look like that, they would be more traditional forests, much flatter. That would be the poorest areas of the city.

[Lord Tataraus]

Just giving a bit of a bump for the thread, I know I've been preoccupied with a flurry of activity in the Avatar D20 project. However, that is nearing a close, so I hope to review this thread a bit more. Has anyone have any ideas for the other cities/towns/locations? Even just a brief description like: Jean Eric's Town - a small settlement in the confederacy, known for its vast fields of crops, though not much else. The town is made up of the farmers and their families and provide the majority of the grain consumed by the confederacy.


Half-Elf [Human]
Benefit: You gain +1 Dexterity and -1 Charisma. In addition, you need not sleep, though you must enter a trancelike state for hours instead of resting. You also gain immunity to magical and non-magical sleep effects.
Special: If you take an additional -3 penalty to charisma, you can gain levels in the Red Elf Manhunter class.

Hm...I kind of like it, but I think it is a bit too powerful with the immunity to magical sleep, maybe just a boost to the save or just reduce the time needed to sleep.

[jagadaishio]

How much of a risk is a character for magical sleep once they surpass 4 HD anyway?

[Vadin]

Who knows? In a world of plants and spores and such, maybe it could be a real problem (status effects should be more common here, methinks). Also, the Half-Elf feat for humans is partially rewritten, just changing immunity to a +4 bonus, and expanding the effects of Elven Dominance (where they half-elf is more red elf than human).

[Lord Tataraus]

The re-write looks a lot better and more balanced. Good job!

I hope to compile all the stuff in the thread over my spring break next week, I know I've been lacking on the organization lately.

[Linguini]

Hmmm, I glanced over this after making Vadin's avatar, and never commented, but I must say I really like the whole premise, as well as those more detailed bits which I've read so far. I might just have to think up a thing or two to contribute to this, though first I'll have to read it all... Most excellent.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Oooh, can you do me an Cataclysm of Green avvie?

Preferrably a dwarf, or a Red Elf.

Yah, slightly off topic.

[Neftren]

The re-write looks a lot better and more balanced. Good job!

I hope to compile all the stuff in the thread over my spring break next week, I know I've been lacking on the organization lately.

If you want, I can help you convert everything into a nice looking spoiler block like mine :D.

[Linguini]

Just for the hell of it, I drew a Gnome, Orc, and Gnork. OotS style, but oh well...
Am I allowed to put it here? I will anyways.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6032/gnomeorcandgnorkyz2.png

[Vadin]

Linguini- very cool!

The orc's tusks are a tad...straight and large, but still- really cool.


If I might take this moment to ramble? Things seem to have cooled a bit. If no one has any objections, I'd like to try and reignite a few things.

Monsters. Where, when, why? What?

What kinds of monsters are there? For example, some things I can see: rust monsters and dire rust monsters rove in hordes through the underdark, devouring any kobolds they come across. Though they have been hunted ferociously, they aren't entirely uncommon threats in the more remote areas and a small number of large bands still roam, searching for their next big meal.

Tiku birds still need some sort of stats...

Dinosaurs. How were they effected? And yes, the setting needs some dinosaurs. The opportunities...wow. Various sorts of incarnosaurs who have Shape Soulmeld as a bonus feat instead of other things. Raptors that use tools and exhibit uncanny intelligence (much like gorillas). Small (what're they called? Somethingpods? Whatever stegos are) used in some places instead of oxen because they're stronger, live longer, and fight off random monsters better. Cavalry on stegosauri charging Elven camps and Lizardfolk enclaves (can they be cult monsters that worship extradimensional Slaadi?).

Basically, which 'normal' monsters fit in the setting, and how?

[Lord Tataraus]

One the question of monsters, I would like to say firstly: All the intelligent races have been created, no monster will have above gorilla intelligence.

Secondly: Before the greening, the creatures of the world where mostly domesticated, most monsters are therefore descended and evolved from these domesticated creatures.

Thirdly: Dinosaurs do seem to fit, but I think they should be evolved from the pre-green creatures, relatively new.

So, your stegosaurus is descended from ancient oxen and your raptors from pigeons and hawks.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I would suppose that lizards would be pretty common, but how would Dinosaurs, lizards, come from other animals? Would the new enviros result in a devolution of birds?

More likely, is that the other dinosaurs came from lizards; it wouldn't take long for a gila monster, or an iguana to evolve bigger, and badder. Or, we can just say that dinosaurs never were extinct, and were either pushed to the edges, or were held in zoos, or in nature reservations. I cannot really imagine tamed dinos.

[Vadin]

What becomes of the young dragons when no one is left to teach them of their magic and to teach them of their intellectual heritage? Below is one such example, the Fire Dracoraptor. Also in the world is the Sand Dracoraptor (blue dragons) and Stone Dracoraptor (also blue dragons). Anyone care to take a crack at those?

Dracoraptor, Fire
Size/Type: Large Animal
Hit Dice: 8d8+40 (80 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15
Attack: Talons +10 melee (2d6+5)
Full Attack: Talons +10 melee (2d6+5) and 2 foreclaws +5 melee (1d4+2) and bite +5 melee (1d8+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Pounce, Spell-Like Abilities, Breath Weapon
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +4
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 15, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +9, Jump +27, Listen +12, Spot +12, Survival +12
Feats: Run, Elemental (Fire), Track
Environment: Warm forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-6)
Challenge Rating:7
Treasure: None
Alignment:Always neutral
Advancement: 9-16 HD (Large); 17-24 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment:—

This creature hails from the lineage of the dragon, though time has had its way with the beast. A red dragon's skull rests atop the massive scaled body, and the arms have grown small over the years. The legs and tail are as powerful as ever, though, and powerful magic still courses through its veins, making it a canny hunter and dangerous foe.

Pounce (Ex)
If a dracoraptor charges, it can make a full attack.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
1/day- Pyrotechnics, Locate Object
All spell-like abilities have a caster level equal to the dracoraptor's HD and have a DC of 15+spell level (Casting stat is Strength).

Breath Weapon (Su)
A dracoraptor can attack with a 15 ft. cone of fire that deals 2d10 fire damage, usable every 1d4+1 rounds. The Reflex save DC is 15 (10+Constitution modifier).

Skills
A dracoraptor has a +8 racial bonus on Hide, Jump, Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.


Dracoraptor, Sand
Size/Type: Large Animal
Hit Dice: 8d8+40 (80 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (-1 size, +5 Dex, +6 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+13
Attack: Talons +8 melee (2d6+3)
Full Attack: Talons +8 melee (2d6+3) and 2 foreclaws +3 melee (1d4) and bite +3 melee (1d8)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Pounce, Spell-Like Abilities, Breath Weapon
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +11, Will +4
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 20, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +12, Jump +27, Listen +12, Spot +12, Survival +12
Feats: Run, Elemental (Earth), Track
Environment: Temperate Deserts
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-6)
Challenge Rating:7
Treasure: None
Alignment:Always neutral
Advancement: 9-16 HD (Large); 17-24 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment:—

This creature hails from the lineage of the dragon, though time has had its way with the beast. A blue dragon's menacing maw rests atop the massive scaled body, and the arms have shrunk with the ages. The legs and tail are as powerful as ever, though, and powerful magic still courses through its veins, making it a canny hunter and dangerous foe.

Pounce (Ex)
If a dracoraptor charges, it can make a full attack.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
1/day- Create/Destroy* Water, Stoneskin
All spell-like abilities have a caster level equal to the dracoraptor's HD and have a DC of 15+spell level (Casting stat is Dexterity).
*Destroy Water works exactly like Create Water, except that an amount of water equal to the amount that can be created can instead be destroyed (this ability is very rarely used by dracoraptors, as they too need the water). Potions and other magical liquids are immune to this effect.

Breath Weapon (Su)
A dracoraptor can attack with a 15 ft. cone of fire that deals 2d10 electricity damage, usable every 1d4+1 rounds. The Reflex save DC is 15 (10+Constitution modifier).

Skills
A dracoraptor has a +8 racial bonus on Hide, Jump, Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.

[EDIT] Gwyp: Zoos are the most likely. Zoos and labs with experiments and such and rich folks' exotic pets and stock for the occasional hunting reserve, of course. They wouldn't have been all too common, but many of them would have been in places where food would have been readily available both after and before the Greening, places where they would have gravitated out from, of course.

[Lord Tataraus]

I would suppose that lizards would be pretty common, but how would Dinosaurs, lizards, come from other animals? Would the new enviros result in a devolution of birds?

More likely, is that the other dinosaurs came from lizards; it wouldn't take long for a gila monster, or an iguana to evolve bigger, and badder. Or, we can just say that dinosaurs never were extinct, and were either pushed to the edges, or were held in zoos, or in nature reservations. I cannot really imagine tamed dinos.

Ok, I didn't really think that one through. But lizards -> dinosaurs, sounds great, run with it.

@ Valid: Awesome idea, but why not coppers for the Stone Dracoraptor? And how about other kinds?

[Vadin]

Copper Dragon...hadn't even occurred to me. Nice thinkin'!

On the other kinds of dragons...I don't know. It just didn't feel right for every single kind of dragon to evolve into a variety of dracorex. Fire in the northern deserts, stone in the mountains, sand on the western coast and northern island.

Besides dracorexes, what else could there be? Olidons, gorilla intelligence slightly feathered raptors who use very simple tools and have intelligence 3. A smaller version of the Stegosaur (its a real animal, I just can't remember its name-anybody have an idea?) used in place of horse and oxen.

Oh. Dude.

Flintstones!

Brontosaurus construction crews.

Some of the larger Confederacy cities would keep a few on hand for construction and repairs, in their own city and for loan to those cities without them.

Thoughts?

[tsuuga]

I've been busy with schoolwork, it's the end of the quarter... really need to write up stuff for Aldrheim clan. :smalleek:


A smaller version of the Stegosaur

Tuojiangosaurus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuojiangosaurus)? Kentrosaurus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentrosaurus)? Huayangosaurus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huayangosaurus)?


Flintstones!

It's a living...
Lets not make the jokes too easy for the players =P

When the greening struck, the adult dragons fell into comas; the eggs that hatched produced weak, stunted (for a dragon) young. Over the last 5,000 years these broods have interbred, producing dinosaur-like variants. Chromatic/metallic distinctions are no longer made, as they have long since interbred.

Red/Gold dragons - mountain dwellers. Similar to Pterosaurs, or gliding predators like Draco Volans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_dragon)

Black/Bronze dragons - aquatic. Plesiosaurs, perhaps?

Green dragons/copper - lower forest level predator. Long, snakelike bodies with tiny legs - think Asian dragon, or even salamander.

White/Silver - who cares, we're temperate/tropical

Blue/brass - dracoraptors.

<spit take> Baaaaaahahahaha! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharovipteryx)

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

...
if that Sharovipteryx breathes fire, I'm in love.

I think that works extremely well.

The Copper evolution wouldn't be a raptor, not in my mind. In my mind, their like giant diggy things.

Yah, I'm really articulate.

[tsuuga]

if that Sharovipteryx breathes fire, I'm in love.

I love Sharovipteryx even more now... it seems to spark interesting arguments. One of my friends claims it's some caveman's discarded meal on top of a dead lizard... from the Triassic (there are no caveman fossils from that period, because every single one of them avoided rivers and bogs >_>). And an even sillier argument with another friend, who tells me that flamingos aren't birds, and trees aren't plants.


The Copper evolution wouldn't be a raptor, not in my mind. In my mind, their like giant diggy things.

I'm not married to those at all... I was working from the creature type lines in the SRD.

Edit:
Green dragons become a creature like a giant Snake-eyed Skink (http://www.naturephoto-cz.com/photos/sevcik/snake-eyed-skink--ablepharus-kitaibeli.jpg) - a creature that very much resembles a snake in shape and movement, but also possesses quite functional legs - a body shape great for moving in between trees and squeezing into cracks. Can squeeze as if it was one size category smaller. Can't be tripped or fall prone, and takes no movement penalties due to difficult terrain - it slithers anyway. Spits acid.

Copper dragons become some kind of amphisbaenidae (upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Amphisbaenia_1.jpg) - either wormlike, or bipedal like a mexican worm lizard or the less stupid looking ajolote (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22445/normal_ajolote.jpg)
All the pictures of these things tend to look like some kind of giant earthworm, so I'll include this picture (http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/animals1/images/virislamph.jpg) too - not sure what species. These guys will be ambush predators or wholly subterranean - in either case, they've got a burrow speed and you won't see much of them until you step on them.

I stand by plesiosaurs for black and bronze dragons. Liopleurodons may be cooler... but, in my opinion, it's too easy to mistake them for a crocodile, and That Guy in your gaming group is never going to stop quoting Charlie the Unicorn once you see one. Let's not encourage that. At least Nessie jokes don't come with funny voices.

[tsuuga]

Vulgar Dragons:

Draco Vulgaris Podopteryx


Juvenile

Size/Type: Small Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6+1) and 2 claws -1 melee (1d4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Glide, Breath Weapon (10 ft, 2d4, DC 13)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +3
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +7, Jump +15, Listen +8, Spot +16, Survival +6
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Focus(Bite)
Environment: Skyscrapers and cliffs, sometimes forests.
Organization: Solitary, pair, or sunning group (4-16)
Challenge Rating:3
Treasure: None
Alignment:Always neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment:—


Adult

Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 8d8+16 (52 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+9
Attack: Bite +10 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Bite +10 melee (1d8+3) and 2 claws +4 melee (1d4+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Glide, Breath Weapon (15 ft, 2d8, DC 16)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +8, Will +5
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 16, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +10, Jump +18, Listen +9, Spot +17, Survival +9
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Focus(Bite), Glideby Attack
Environment: Skyscrapers and cliffs, sometimes forests.
Organization: Solitary, or attached to adult sunning group
Challenge Rating:6
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment:—


Elder

Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 14d10+56 (133 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 19 (-1 size, +0 Dex, +10 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +14/+21
Attack: Bite +21 melee (1d8+7)
Full Attack: Bite +21 melee (2d6+7) and 2 claws +15 melee (1d6+3) and 1 tail slap +15 melee (1d6+10)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Glide, Breath Weapon (30 ft, 6d10, DC 21)
Special Qualities: Darkvision (60 ft) and low light vision, Bless 3/day, Scorching Ray 3/day
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +10, Will +7
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 6, Wis 16, Cha 9
Skills: Climb +15, Jump +25, Listen +10, Spot +17, Survival +10
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Focus(Bite), Glideby Attack, Improved Initiative, Wingover
Environment: Skyscrapers and cliffs, sometimes forests.
Organization: Solitary, or attached to adult sunning group
Challenge Rating:9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Almost always neutral
Advancement: 15-20 HD (Large); 20+ HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment:—


This creature is descended from the race of dragons. It has huge, poweful back legs and a long tail, with a membrane connecting the back legs to the tail; its front legs are short and weak. A Podopteryx can spread the membrane on its back legs to form a large wing surface, enabling it to glide. It is often seen sunning itself in groups on the south side of a skyscraper or cliff face.

Glide (Ex)- As long as it is unburdened, a Podopteryx can glide short distances. It gains a fly speed of 30, with poor maneuverability. It must descend 5 feet for every 15 feet it glides. The Podopteryx is agile enough to initiate a glide in mid-leap. (In other words: it may long jump 1.25 times the regular distance, or 1.5 times the regular distance with the apex of the jump at the beginning instead of the middle)

Breath Weapon (Su)
A Podopteryx can attack with a cone of fire, usable every 1d4+1 rounds.

Skills
A Podopteryx has a +4 racial bonus on Climb, Listen, and Survival checks, and a +8 bonus on Jump and Spot checks.

Spell-like Abilities
An Elder Podopteryx is able to use Bless and Scorching Ray 3/day at a caster level equal to one-quarter its hit dice, rounded down.

Draco Vulgaris Volans - Pteranodon type thingy. To come.

Draco Vulgaris Serpens
Juvenile
Size/Type: Small Animal
Hit Dice: 5d8+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d8+1)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d8+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Belly Crawl, Breath Weapon (10 ft, 2d4, DC 13)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +1
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 11, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +14, Move Silently +10, Spot +5, Survival +8
Feats: Improved Natural Attack(Bite), Weapon Focus(Bite)
Environment: Forest Floor
Organization: Solitary or Clutch(2-8)
Challenge Rating:3
Treasure: None
Alignment:Always neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment:—

Adult
Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 11d8+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 19 ( +1 Dex, +8 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+11
Attack: Bite +12 melee (2d6+3)
Full Attack: Bite +12 melee (2d6+3) and tail slap +7 melee (1d6+4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Belly Crawl, Breath Weapon (20 ft, 4d6, DC 17)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +4
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 1, Wis 13, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +16, Move Silently +14, Spot +7, Survival +10
Feats: Improved Natural Attack(Bite), Weapon Focus(Bite), Snatch, Weapon Focus (Tail Slap)
Environment: Forest Floor
Organization: Solitary or Pair
Challenge Rating:5
Treasure: None
Alignment:Always neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment:—

Elder
Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 17d10+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 23 ( -1 Size, +14 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +17/+23
Attack: Bite +24 melee (2d8+6)
Full Attack: Bite +24 melee (2d8+6) and tail slap +19 melee (2d6+9)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Belly Crawl, Breath Weapon (40 ft, 8d6, DC 22)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, Darkvision (60 ft), Obscuring Mist 3/day, Expeditious Retreat 3/day
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +10, Will +7
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 5, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +18, Move Silently +18, Spot +10, Survival +12
Feats: Improved Natural Attack(Bite), Improved Natural Attack(Tail Slap), Weapon Focus(Bite), Snatch, Weapon Focus (Tail Slap), Power Attack
Environment: Forest Floor
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating:11
Treasure: None
Alignment:Usually Neutral
Advancement: 18-22 HD Large, 23-28 HD Huge
Level Adjustment:—

This creature is descended from the race of dragons. It has a long, sinuous, almost snakelike body with four stubby legs. Its scales are patchy green and brown. It can move through undergrowth and between trees as fast as it can move on flat ground.

Belly Crawl (Ex)- A Serpens moves with a combination of a slither and crawl - as a result, it cannot be tripped and is not hampered by difficult terrain.

Breath Weapon (Su)
A Serpens can attack with a line of acid usable every 1d4+1 rounds.

Skills
A Serpens has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks.

Spell-like Abilities
An Elder Serpens is able to use Obscuring Mist and Expeditious Retreat 3/day at a caster level equal to one-quarter its hit dice, rounded down.
[/SPOILER]

Draco Vulgaris Vermis
Juvenile
Size/Type: Small Animal
Hit Dice: 6d8+12 (39 hp)
Initiative: 0
Speed: 10, Burrow 20
Armor Class: 19, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+1 size, +8 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+2
Attack: Bite +7 melee
Full Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+2), Slam +3 melee (1d4+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon (3d4 DC 17 20ft.)
Special Qualities: Blindsight (30 ft.)
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +3
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 8
Skills: Hide +4, Move Silently +9
Feats: Weapon Focus (Slam), Ability Focus (Breath Weapon), Power Attack
Enviroment: The leaf litter of the rainforest, and sometimes in desert sands.
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment: —

Adult
Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 11d8+33 (82 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 10, Burrow 20
Armor Class: 19, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+1 size, +8 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+13
Attack: Bite +13 melee
Full Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d8+4), Slam +9 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon (6d4 DC 20 40 ft.)
Special Qualities: Blindsight (30 ft.)
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +4
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 8
Skills: Move Silently +13
Feats: Weapon Focus (Slam), Ability Focus (Breath Weapon), Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Bite)
Enviroment: The leaf litter of the rainforest, and sometimes in desert sands.
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment: —

Elder
Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 17d10+85 (178 hp)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 10, Burrow 30
Armor Class: 23, touch 7, flat-footed 25 (-1 size, -2 dex, +16 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +17/+30
Attack: Bite +26 melee
Full Attack: Bite +26 melee (2d8+9), Slam +21 melee (2d6+4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon (10d4 DC 25 60 ft.), Transmute Rock to Mud 1/day
Special Qualities: Blindsight (60 ft.)
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +8, Will +6
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 6, Con 20, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 10
Skills: Move Silently +16
Feats: Weapon Focus (Slam), Ability Focus (Breath Weapon), Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Bite), Improved Natural Attack (Bite), Improved Natural Attack (Slam)
Enviroment: The leaf litter of the rainforest, and sometimes in desert sands.
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 11
Treasure: None
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Advancement: 18-24 HD (Large), 25-30 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —


This creature is descended from the race of dragons. It is dull brown, legless, and blind - from a distance, it looks like a giant earthworm. From close up, you can see its body is covered in heavy scales, and its jaw is armed with an impressive array of teeth.

Breath Weapon (Su)
A Vermis can attack with a line of electricity usable every 1d4+1 rounds.

Spell-like Abilities
An Elder Vermis is able to use Transmute Rock to Mud once per day, as a sorcerer of 1/4 its hit dice.

[/SPOILER]

Draco Vulgaris Porrocervix - Elasmosaur. To come.

[Vadin]

I'm out for a few days, and nothing happens? Ah, well. Such is life.

Moving on to business, great start on the dracosaurs, Tsuuga! Any idea when we might be seeing some more?

Also...a lot of the locations still need to be filled in...I'll take one now. It's at the bottom.

And Lord Tartaraus- any chance we could get a pdf of this stuff all compiled together? Or is there (hopefully) still some creative juice left in the community (Dwarves- expanded upon! Kobolds- prestige classed! Treasure hunters- defined and UMD usin'! Beasts- more original monsters, undead, and ungreen! Leftover technology- also prestige classed!), one or two last things to squeeze out before we call it quits and move on two newer, hopefully as grand and astounding, projects?


#20, O'Sahr, Jewel of the Coastal Sands
Aye, lad, this is where we came from. Years ago your mother and I left O'Sahr for that big Confederacy across the heights, but our hearts always stayed behind.
Not much of a city? Well, no, boy, I suppose to you it ain't. I keep forgetting you were raised in University, not out here. Look at the edges of the bazaar, boy. See anything odd? That's right. No heat shining up. You probably can't tell it, but that means ther're buildings below there. O'Sahr lies not on the sand, but below it. For miles it stretches out, all underground. It isn't usually full up, but it can get a little busy when we all meet every now and then.
Yes, we dwarves belong out here. Ain't nothin' more natural for we folk than out here in the sands, livin' with our beetles and families and friends and partakin' in all the joys and beauties the desert mistress has to offer.
Stop whinin' about the heat, boy, or I'll hit you upside the head so hard it'll wake up your watchsoul.

O'Sahr, the Jewel of the Coastal Sands, is a meeting place for the dwarves. Every now and then, when they come together for a festival or important meeting, they swoop down upon the city and transform the subterranean labyrinth into a bustling underground metropolis.


What is a watchsoul, you might ask? Much like a guardian angel, a watchsoul looks out for a dwarf and keeps them out of harm's way. It also serves as a spiritual guide, though, and isn't above putting the dwarf through trials to teach a lesson. Their existence is debatable, but stats might be appropriate, as there are legends that tell of dwarf warriors who manifest their watchsouls and take on aspects and weapons of their ancestors.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Draco Vulgaris Podopteryx looks good to me so far.

However, I have an Idea. I always liked how dragons had those age charts, but they were really confusing. I think a three-step being like an arrowhawk would be more suited. In my mind, our current Draco Vulgaris Podopteryx is the juvenile, a medium version would be adult, and elder would be large, at around 3, 6, and 9 CR respectively.

[tsuuga]

Moving on to business, great start on the dracosaurs, Tsuuga! Any idea when we might be seeing some more?
I am a lazy, lazy person. :smallwink: I'll probably finish up these guys later this week.


Or is there (hopefully) still some creative juice left in the community (Dwarves- expanded upon! Kobolds- prestige classed! Treasure hunters- defined and UMD usin'! Beasts- more original monsters, undead, and ungreen! Leftover technology- also prestige classed!), one or two last things to squeeze out before we call it quits and move on two newer, hopefully as grand and astounding, projects?
I, too, hope so. I have enjoyed the hell out of this project.


#20, O'Sahr, Jewel of the Coastal Sands
Neat. Dwarves needed a central city deal, and this is a nice one. Wish I had some skill at writing flavor text :smalltongue:


However, I have an Idea. I always liked how dragons had those age charts, but they were really confusing. I think a three-step being like an arrowhawk would be more suited. In my mind, our current Draco Vulgaris Podopteryx is the juvenile, a medium version would be adult, and elder would be large, at around 3, 6, and 9 CR respectively.
I like this idea, I've updated Podopteryx with this in mind. CRing these guys is kinda tough, though... dragon CRs are, well, stupid.

[Vadin]

Can only make a quick post right now, I'll try and get some more stuff out next week sometime (probably not until the end of next week :smalleek: ); so much stuff to do (school, just got accepted to GHP (if you're in a Georgia highschool, you may or may not know what it is), and an OM competetion is all up ons next weekend). Long story short, this post is the last one on here for a few days at best, and I still have to go in a few minutes.

Gwyp & tsuuga: Awesome ideas with the dragons, can't wait to see more with that implementation. And yes, laziness seems to go hand-in-hand with gamerness. Go figure.

Anybody still reading this who can write up a draconic prestige class for kobold warriors who become more like dragons without gaining caster levels? That always bugged me about the dragon disciple class. The prestige class might also give them an option between wings and spell-like abilities about halfway through, so they could either gain one of a dragons most impressive and iconic abilities or the magic that can advance them socially into the upper class. Just some thoughts.

[jagadaishio]

For a draconic prestige class, would it make sense to take the dragonblood feats out of Races of Dragon and make a prestige class which lets you gain them nice and quick? It would probably require Dragonwrought, the first of the wings feats, a certain base fortitude save, and a certain number of ranks in one or more social skills. You would probably get a half-dragon-style breath weapon at either level 3 or 5, depending on the number of levels this class would have, along with a steadily scaling nat. armor increase.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Sounds solid to me.

[Lord Tataraus]

Alright I'm back! So, tsuuga, awesome dragons, keep it up. Vadin, I am (slowly) collecting all this stuff into a pdf, but I'll let this go on for a bit before I publish it.

I like that dragon PrC idea how's this for a try:

Dragon Sage
Prerequisites:
Feats: Dragonwrought Kobold, Dragon Wings
Race: Any Kobold
Skills: Any Knowledge 8 ranks
Languages: Draconic

Hit Die: d12
Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Decipher Script, Heal, Knowledge (All; taken individually), Listen, Perform, Sense Motive, Spot, and Use Magic Device.
Skill Points Each Level: 4 + Intelligence Modifier

{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Bonus Draconic Feat

2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Draconic Breath 1d6

3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3|Bonus Draconic Feat, Fly 20 ft

4th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Draconic Breath 3d6

5th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Bonus Draconic Feat, Greater Breath

6th|+4|+5|+2|+5|Fly 40 ft, Draconic Breath 5d6

7th|+5|+5|+2|+5|Bonus Draconic Feat

8th|+6|+6|+2|+6|Draconic Breath 7d6

9th|+6|+6|+3|+6|Bonus Draconic Feat, Fly 60 ft

10th|+7|+7|+3|+7|Draconic Breath 9d6

[/table]

Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A dragon sage gains no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Bonus Draconic Feat: A dragon sage may select any Draconic Heritage, Metabreath, or Dragonblood feat for which he meets the prerequisites as a bonus feat at 1st level and every other level thereafter.

Draconic Breath: A dragon sage gains a breath weapon usable every 2d4 rounds that deals 1d6 damage of the type and shape of his ancestral dragon selected with the dragonwrought kobold feat with a reflex save DC10 + 1/2 hit dice + constitution modifier for half damage. A line is 30ft long and a cone is 15ft. At every other level the breath weapon increases in damage by 2 dice.

Fly: A dragon sage's wings have fully developed and can sustain normal flight. A dragon sage gains a fly speed of 20ft with average mobility. This fly speed increases to 40ft at 6th level and 60ft at 9th level.

Greater Breath: Starting at 5th level a dragon sage's breath weapon improves to that close to a dragon's. The dragon sage must only wait 1d4+1 rounds between each use and the size of the breath doubles (60ft line or 30ft cone).

[jagadaishio]

Add the ability to speak and read draconic to the list of prerequisites for this prestige class.

As for class skills, I would suggest all of the social skills, Concentration, Decipher Script, Heal, the Knowledge skills, Perform, all of the perception skills, and UMD.
Social skills because they're emulating dragons, masters of politics. Perception skills because dragons have super-senses. The intellectual skills because of the implication that they're some sort of a sage. Perform, just because. UMD because it seems to obvious to skip.

[jagadaishio]

Oh, also, you need to say what the save against the breath attack is.

[tsuuga]

By default, breath attack saves are 10+1/2 hd+con modifier.

[Lord Tataraus]

By default, breath attack saves are 10+1/2 hd+con modifier.

Correct, and I've already added all the suggestions. However, I'm a bit shaky on the hit die, should I lower it from d12? d10 maybe?

[jagadaishio]

Well, a d12 is the dragon's hit die, and it fits the theme of the class. I dunno, it can't be more over-powered than the bear warrior.

[tsuuga]

Correct, and I've already added all the suggestions. However, I'm a bit shaky on the hit die, should I lower it from d12? d10 maybe?

I would say reduce it. It's pretty weird, honestly, to have 3/4 BAB and huge hit dice.

[Lord Tataraus]

I guess I'll reduce the HD. So, any more progress to be made? I have begun to seriously compile this stuff into pdf format (mostly 'cause I feel guilty about starting another on of these just today). I assure you I won't close this project down, but it does seemed to have slowed down drastically.

[Vadin]

HALF A YEAR BUMP for question: Tataraus, did you ever get a pdf of all this compiled?

[Lord Tataraus]

Unfortunately, things keep on getting in the way. I've got most of the stuff transferred over to a document but as far as setting up the flow of the document or standardizing the format, its a work in progress (not much progress unfortunately). I'll try to keep working on it and get it up in a few weeks.

[tsuuga]

Man, I miss working on this setting. It was a heck of a lot of fun :smallbiggrin:

No rush, LordTataraus, I can be patient :smallsmile:

[Vadin]

Yeah, take your time.

Looking back at this, can you believe it really only took a month?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Do you want to continue work on this? This is one of my favourite settings so far...

[Vadin]

Another world building excercise might be in order...

Goodness knows we've tried several times already on these boards, though.

I can remember at least 4 other attempts since this...

Maybe a 4E real-history-with-magic setting?

An idea I had when CoG ended (yes, it stuck with me since then):


It's the night before Germany and Russia invade Poland and begin WWII. America, Britain, and France are cautious. Japan is planning something.

The next day, no invasion takes place.

There are earthquakes across the world.

Not enough to kill everyone, or even most people, or even a lot.

But earthquakes in every city around the world were more than enough to stop things for a day.

They weren't all that happened, though.

As the day progressed, fires broke out. Storms started. Icebergs and animals appeared out of nowhere.

And people took credit for the actions.

In the ensuing chaos, societies changed.

In England, those with what was dubbed 'magic' were given titles and replaced the old aristos. In America, they were recruited by the government and assigned to elite task forces and given all the funding they needed to research their powers, finding limits and ways to make it profitable. In Germany, the rigid government couldn't handle the sudden influx of power and fell to pieces. Russia pulled out of the war and sought to use this power to create a truely Marxist state.

It's a year later, 1940. Some of those with magic grew tall and thin. Others grew short and tough. Others small and fast. Not all of those were people who possesed magic. Their children, the few infants born of those who had changed, were likewise changed. The children of those who possesed magic were likewise powered.

That was 300 years ago.

The year is 2240. What's going on in the world? Where is humanity? What became of the mages? What happened to those who had changed?

Just a thought.

[Lord Tataraus]

Do you want to continue work on this? This is one of my favourite settings so far...

It's my favorite as well, go ahead and continue it if you want, I'll help out when I can.

This only took a month?!?! Wow...it was a lot of fun, I never had the heart to take down my banner in my sig 'cause its so awesome. If you want to continue the CoG setting ,we need the locations fleshed out some more. We have 9 out of the 24 mapped locations with some form of description and 1 (Aldrheim) that never got its description.

[tsuuga]

Wow. Really only a month? It felt longer... :smallbiggrin:

I'd love to kick this back into gear. I'll have to read over the thread tomorrow to remember where we left off...

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I remember it being a lot longer. If we did that in a month, if we keep on reviving this thing, we may actually finish one day!

[Vadin]

I don't know...this is pretty much done.

If we could do all this in a month, why not start on something new while finishing up the last little bits of this stuff?

[tsuuga]

Hmm... a lot of the incomplete stuff was on my plate, wasn't it? :smalleek: Well, I'd best get to work on that... Lets see, the Wise of Aldrheim, plus city flavor; and pteranodons and elasmosaurs.

Vadin, I like that setting idea. 1940s is a good tech level for magic to come in on, and being set 300 years later means I don't have to read up that much on history :smallcool:

[Lord Tataraus]

I don't know...this is pretty much done.

If we could do all this in a month, why not start on something new while finishing up the last little bits of this stuff?

Sure the bulk is done, but some of the more mundane locations aren't. As for starting a new setting, I'm up for it but it is rare to get these things going for long. This one just took off on its own because of some big enthusiasts of the setting, just a warning. As for your setup, its a good concept, the only problem I have with it is it seems too Shadowrun. With a bit of work and fleshing out it could depart from that, but for now its too close for comfort IMO.

[Vadin]

Can you think of any ways to differentiate it?

[tsuuga]

The biggest differentiation is that it's not cyberpunk. Think about it. Magic erupts before the discovery/invention of:


DNA-based heredity
Nuclear Fission as a power source
Digital computing


Why mess with DNA when you can Polymorph Object? Why develop nuclear weapons/power when you've got magic? Why develop computers when you could just summon a knowledge spirit? This would not be the kind of future we're familiar with. Without nuclear deterrents, there would continue to be World Wars (at least until several someones develop epic spells). And following that, democracy would crumble. Whether they use it or not, a guy with personal access to a nuclear-equivalent arsenal is in charge. The environment would probably suck (Sure, we'd run out of fossil fuels, but hey - you can just make em with magic! Conjuration Mages are the new oil barons), unless someone worked out a way to clean the atmosphere with magic. Without computers, you don't get the standard cyberpunk fare - implants, wifi, AI, smart guns, hacking, etc.

[Vadin]

The biggest differentiation is that it's not cyberpunk. Think about it. Magic erupts before the discovery/invention of:


DNA-based heredity
Nuclear Fission as a power source
Digital computing


Why mess with DNA when you can Polymorph Object? Why develop nuclear weapons/power when you've got magic? Why develop computers when you could just summon a knowledge spirit? This would not be the kind of future we're familiar with. Without nuclear deterrents, there would continue to be World Wars (at least until several someones develop epic spells). And following that, democracy would crumble. Whether they use it or not, a guy with personal access to a nuclear-equivalent arsenal is in charge. The environment would probably suck (Sure, we'd run out of fossil fuels, but hey - you can just make em with magic! Conjuration Mages are the new oil barons), unless someone worked out a way to clean the atmosphere with magic. Without computers, you don't get the standard cyberpunk fare - implants, wifi, AI, smart guns, hacking, etc.

Nukes never got developed because WWII never happened, computer development went much slower until the mages got hold of them and skipped from tickertape to Pentium IV in speed.

And the amount of people with magic was about 1 in 100,000. In the US, there were slightly more than 1,000 of them, and they were mostly hired by the government to conduct research on their new powers or be part of special task forces. At most, there are a hundred or so in the US the government didn't notice, they're mostly paranoid people who hide their powers for fear of 'the man'.

Magic wouldn't replace science, but when a person with magic also had an interest in science (not often, but the gov't would encourage it) and knew how both science and their magic worked, huge progress could be made very quickly.

And yeah, mages that knew the magic (that is, rituals) to create things could do some crazy stuff. It wouldn't be efficient to try and magically mass produce things, but novelty pets for rich people (ala dragons, unicorns, things from Spore) and rare elements would definitely show up more.

After Germany fell apart in 1939 and Russia became isolationist, who would be the new threat? I agree that World Wars would probably continue, as there wouldn't be any too huge deterrents, but would Germany reorganize and be the same? If not, how would they be? And which countries would decide that they were the rightful inheritors of the Earth and act upon those crazy desires?

Also, if people want to work on this, feel free to make the thread for it. I would, but formatting things in this forum confuses me so, and I'm horrendously unorganized.

[tsuuga]

Nukes never got developed because WWII never happened, computer development went much slower until the mages got hold of them and skipped from tickertape to Pentium IV in speed.
<snip>
And which countries would decide that they were the rightful inheritors of the Earth and act upon those crazy desires?

I'm not sure that mages would make the jump from card-driven calculators to Pentium IVs - I mean, in this setting, magic would predate not only the transistor, but programmable computers in general. Before things like the ENIAC, computers were basically glorified slide rules.

What country? Any country that ended up with a disproportionate mage/plebe ratio. My bet would be third-world nations... particularly ones where a belief in magic is widespread.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Greece maybe? Somewhere in the Balkans, I think.

[Vadin]

I'm not sure that mages would make the jump from card-driven calculators to Pentium IVs - I mean, in this setting, magic would predate not only the transistor, but programmable computers in general. Before things like the ENIAC, computers were basically glorified slide rules.

What country? Any country that ended up with a disproportionate mage/plebe ratio. My bet would be third-world nations... particularly ones where a belief in magic is widespread.

It would, wouldn't it...what magic enabled device could fill the place of the computer? Personal outsiders that can perform calculations? Other sorts of assistants from across the realms?

Instead of home computing kits, home summoning kits where mages have completed all but the final (unmagical) step in the ritual and sent you the pieces!

Eventually, though, the transistor would have been invented. It just would have been invented as more of a curiousity/breakthrough in a field that's 'neat, and useful for people without Companions, but really...will it ever catch on?'

It does catch on, eventually, but not for personal use. Just for military and aeronautic calculations and as an aid in certain devices (like planes and the 1963 space launch, in which the crew of mages helped NASA succesfully establish the first Eath to Moon and Moon to Earth telepad upon landing).

And an Eastern European threat wouldn't be a bad one. Especially in a region where the mages could congregate on Mount Olympus and gain a pretty fast cultist/terrified local following...

[thevorpalbunny]

The groundwork for computers was done mostly in the late 30s. Also, Alan Turing was alive, and he would probably have spent the remainder of his life (which would have lasted longer, as he probably wouldn't have committed suicide due to being gay) trying to convince a mage to help him create a Universal Turing Machine using magic. Unless he got magic himself, in which case he probably would have made something beyond what we have now by 1970 at the latest.

In other words computer-like objects = very yes, though they would quite likely be analog rather than digital.

IMO, Japan seems a good bet to take over the world. The Japanese would still have the fascism and have shown, before and since, their ability to adapt virtually anything to their purposes. They would probably lose most of their empire at first, but I think once they recovered (perhaps a bit slower than some) they would get going faster.

EDIT: Or possibly somewhere in the Middle East, though Bedouin mages might get a bit too Fremen-esque.

[Vadin]

Japan might also have been a threat. Their society's adaptable views on religion would let mages slip into normal society just fine, most likely in the employ of a major corporation or the government. Without Germany's support, though, they likely wouldn't have gone ahead with Pearl Harbor and would have significantly demilitarized. That's not to say that they wouldn't have still tried to take over much of China and the rest of East Asia, just that they would have only been attacking there, not charging East as well.

[tsuuga]

Created a thread for the discussion of Vadin's idea. Lets move the discussion over here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86884), and let this thread get back to discussing CoG.

[Vadin]

So, those dragonish creatures. Did those ever finish getting statted up, Tsuuga?

[tsuuga]

The elasmosaurs and pteranodons still need to be done... I think I've got a text file with a start on em around here somewhere.... :smallfrown:

[kopout]

It's my favorite as well, go ahead and continue it if you want, I'll help out when I can.

This only took a month?!?! Wow...it was a lot of fun, I never had the heart to take down my banner in my sig 'cause its so awesome. If you want to continue the CoG setting ,we need the locations fleshed out some more. We have 9 out of the 24 mapped locations with some form of description and 1 (Aldrheim) that never got its description.

It is a good thing you didn't take it out of your sig or I never would have found it .

but yeah I have been working on "Go Find Your Own Hole" and I just finished reading through th whole thing to day and I personally think that the whole forest is aways flooded and all the tunnels crumbled idea is flawed and that only the tunnels that where already below the water table would flood and crumble when the pumps failed. And that is another thing if the sky scrapers kept working why not the pumps in the subway and access/ maintenance tunnels? They should keep working at lest in most places and this would prevent contradictions withe the origin of gatelings.

[Vadin]

It is a good thing you didn't take it out of your sig or I never would have found it .

but yeah I have been working on "Go Find Your Own Hole" and I just finished reading through th whole thing to day and I personally think that the whole forest is aways flooded and all the tunnels crumbled idea is flawed and that only the tunnels that where already below the water table would flood and crumble when the pumps failed. And that is another thing if the sky scrapers kept working why not the pumps in the subway and access/ maintenance tunnels? They should keep working at lest in most places and this would prevent contradictions withe the origin of gatelings.

...seriously?

...I mean, really?

kopout, this thread was threadamanced a while ago to see if we could generate enough interest to maybe finish it, polish the parts that weren't quite complete, but the project is, by and large, already done. The parts left unfinished aren't really vital to playin. There's no reason to bring this back, man. It was a bunch of fun to work on, and I'm sure everyone involved would love to do something like this again (a single prompt, a project leader, lots of excellent minds onboard), but this particular project is over.

Please, don't bring back threads that were already brought back and allowed to die.

Instead, it would be far more productive to organize a new, similar, endeavor. I'm sure that the community would be more than happy to work on something like this again if someone with good organizational skills were heading it up...