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Admiral Squish
2008-02-27, 04:23 AM
I'm playing in a monster campaign as a xill rogue. With four claws to think about, improved grapple and a paralyzing bite, I decided I don't need weapons anyways, and got improved natural attack, instead. Now, the problem starts here. I get a butt-ton of gold to spend, and while most are getting crazy weapons, it's looking like I'll have to go without. I can't find any rules on enchanting natural weapons. A warforged can get their 'natural' armor enchanted, as long as they're there for the whole time. Why can't I get that done to my claws? And is it terribly wrong of me to imagine the process as a arcane manicure, getting my nails done in a lovely shade of shocking burst?

Bag_of_Holding
2008-02-27, 04:28 AM
You could wear the amulet of natural weapon (I'm not sure of its exact name); you can add some enhancement bonus to your natural weapon. However, adding special abilities to natural weapons and unarmed strike is quite difficult. The only creature capable of such thing is waforged with battlefist, iirc.

Iku Rex
2008-02-27, 04:56 AM
Amulet of Mighty Fists (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists).

If the DM allows them, beast claws from Savage Species are good. Savage Species also has a necklace of natural weapons.

Nebo_
2008-02-27, 05:06 AM
Amulet of Suck (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists).


Fixed

The Necklace of Natural Weapons, however, is very good.

Iku Rex
2008-02-27, 05:21 AM
FixedHe's got five natural weapons. The Amulet of Mighty Fists gives every one of them an enhancement bonus for the cost of giving three regular weapons the same bonus. Not such a bad deal actually.

Skjaldbakka
2008-02-27, 06:02 AM
I agree. Amulet of Mighty Fists sucks for unarmed attacks, but if you have lots of natural weapons, it becomes worthwhile.


Edit- Of course, with lots of attacks, I'd rather have a +1d6 energy damage than +1 to-hit/dmg with all those attacks.

Admiral Squish
2008-02-27, 12:47 PM
I'm already getting an amulet of mighty fists. Remember, I have butt-tons of money.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-02-27, 12:52 PM
Ask if you can trade bonuses from Amulet of Mighty Fists for abilities. For example, pay 24k for a +2 amulet, but get a +1 Shocking amulet. Seems a fair tradeoff.

edit: If you campaign allows psionics, two levels of Pyrokeneticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) nets you Fists of Fire which gives you +2d6 fire damage.

Telonius
2008-02-27, 12:53 PM
Much to the dismay of Monks everywhere, there's really not much you can do. Except for houserules and special situations like Warforged, you can't enhance natural attacks directly, only through items.

(Personally I allow Monks to take a homebrew feat similar to "Craft Magic Arms and Armor" to enhance their attacks).

playswithfire
2008-02-27, 01:02 PM
Levels of kensai or the Necklace of Natural Attacks, as already mentioned, though with five natural attacks, Amulet of Mighty Fists is cheaper in terms of straight enhancement bonus.

To make all 5 natural attacks be +1 frost weapons would be 43,000 gp = 5*(600+(2000*2^2)) with the necklace, for example

Pelfaid
2008-02-27, 01:04 PM
How would this work for a Druid with the shapeshifting variant from the PHB2, specifically how would the Necklace of Natural weapons work?

Cuddly
2008-02-27, 01:11 PM
Psychic weapon master also gives kensai-like enchants, 1/2 manifester progression, and some feat-like stuff. Stiff entrance requirements.

Burley
2008-02-27, 01:19 PM
Well, there are two ways of doing it: The expensive way which grants enhancement bonuses (+5 for 150,000gp), or the cheap way that grants you the same bonus (+5 for 8,100gp). The first is the Amulet of Mighty Fists, the second is having Greater Magic Fang permanced on you.
Now, yes, I understand that Greater Magic Fang only applies to a SINGLE natural weapon, and you have 4 of them. So, we'll just have the permanancy done 4 times! ~Gasp~ I know...it's risky...but, it can be done. 8100x4=32,400.
Check that out...you just saved 117,600gp on your enhancements by switching to Permanancy. If only I could have Permanancy put on my car insurance...

serok42
2008-02-27, 01:22 PM
I always ruled that a monk (or anyone using unarmed strike) could enchant gloves or hand wraps like they were weapons.

IE. +1 Shocking glove




Much to the dismay of Monks everywhere, there's really not much you can do. Except for houserules and special situations like Warforged, you can't enhance natural attacks directly, only through items.

(Personally I allow Monks to take a homebrew feat similar to "Craft Magic Arms and Armor" to enhance their attacks).

Duke of URL
2008-02-27, 01:28 PM
Well, there are two ways of doing it: The expensive way which grants enhancement bonuses (+5 for 150,000gp), or the cheap way that grants you the same bonus (+5 for 8,100gp). The first is the Amulet of Mighty Fists, the second is having Greater Magic Fang permanced on you.
Now, yes, I understand that Greater Magic Fang only applies to a SINGLE natural weapon, and you have 4 of them. So, we'll just have the permanancy done 4 times! ~Gasp~ I know...it's risky...but, it can be done. 8100x4=32,400.
Check that out...you just saved 117,600gp on your enhancements by switching to Permanancy. If only I could have Permanancy put on my car insurance...

The drawback here is that the permanent GMF can be dispelled; dispel magic against an item only suppresses its abilities temporarily.

Cuddly
2008-02-27, 01:31 PM
The drawback here is that the permanent GMF can be dispelled; dispel magic against an item only suppresses its abilities temporarily.

That's why he said it was risky.

Person_Man
2008-02-27, 01:45 PM
A Xill Rogue? Don't they have +4 LA and 5 racial HD? And for what? A few extra arms and a DC 14 Paralysis effect which only works if your CR 10+ enemies roll a 1 on their Fort Save. Multiweapon Fighting is great and all, but man, that must be rough.

Anywho, Kensai is definitely the way to go. Enchant your four claws Spell Storing. Use UMD or have a friend charge them up with your favorite 3rd level spells.

The Draconomicon also has a few magic items that work specifically on claws, though I can't remember what they are off the top of my head.

Admiral Squish
2008-02-27, 01:57 PM
A Xill Rogue? Don't they have +4 LA and 5 racial HD? And for what? A few extra arms and a DC 14 Paralysis effect which only works if your CR 10+ enemies roll a 1 on their Fort Save. Multiweapon Fighting is great and all, but man, that must be rough.

Anywho, Kensai is definitely the way to go. Enchant your four claws Spell Storing. Use UMD or have a friend charge them up with your favorite 3rd level spells.

The Draconomicon also has a few magic items that work specifically on claws, though I can't remember what they are off the top of my head.
Don't forget ability focus for a +2 to the DC, and the ability to shift to the ethereal plane and back at will. Also, Five words words: Sneak Attack +4d6, times four.

I don't own a book with kensai in it, sadly.

What's the formula for a necklace of natural attacks?

Okay, folks, we don't seem to be communicating, here: I DON'T WANT ENHANCEMENT BONUSES. Okay? I want abilities, which are several thousand times as useful. Preferably, different kinds of abilities on each. (I.E. Shock on one, flaming on another, frost on the third and Collision on the primary.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-02-27, 02:15 PM
Don't forget ability focus for a +2 to the DC, and the ability to shift to the ethereal plane and back at will. Also, Five words words: Sneak Attack +4d6, times four.

I don't own a book with kensai in it, sadly.

What's the formula for a necklace of natural attacks?

Okay, folks, we don't seem to be communicating, here: I DON'T WANT ENHANCEMENT BONUSES. Okay? I want abilities, which are several thousand times as useful. Preferably, different kinds of abilities on each. (I.E. Shock on one, flaming on another, frost on the third and Collision on the primary.

Two level dip in Pyrokeneticist nets you Hands Afire for +2d6 fire damage on all claw attacks. Three level dip nets you a RTA you can sneak attack with for when you can't get into melee.

Amulet of Mighty Fists (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists) would probably do better than necklace of natural attacks, as it affects ALL natural attacks.

tsuuga
2008-02-27, 02:55 PM
necklace of natural weapons.

It amuses the that the example given in Savage Species is a +1 Throwing Returning necklace. Rocket fists!

A bite attack would look ridiculous, though. You'd just look like you had possessed dentures.

Draz74
2008-02-27, 03:34 PM
If you have plenty of levels to spend, Psychic Warrior powers can do a lot for your natural weapons' magical qualities. Metaphysical Claw, Claws of the Vampire, Claws of Energy ...

sturmhauke
2008-02-27, 03:52 PM
If you can swing it with your current build, there's the monk/sorcerer (or wizard)/Enlightened Fist combo, with the optional addition of the Ascetic Mage feat. Enlightened Fist lets you convert Stunning Fist uses into electric or fire damage, deliver touch spells as part of a full attack, and convert ray spells into touch spells. The feat lets you stack monk and sorc levels for the monk AC bonus, use Cha instead of Wis for the bonus if it's higher, and burn spells to give your unarmed attacks an enhancement bonus.

Burley
2008-02-27, 04:03 PM
Read it again. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Permanency)
It specifically says: Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.

Read the parenthetical again, for shock value... If you're a rogue, you can just get the scrolls or whatever to do it yourself.

The Faceless
2008-02-27, 04:15 PM
Read it again. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Permanency)
It specifically says: Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.

Read the parenthetical again, for shock value... If you're a rogue, you can just get the scrolls or whatever to do it yourself.

It also specifically says that spells permenancied on you can only be dispelled by a caster of a higher level than you when you cast the spell.

bigbaddragon
2008-02-27, 05:41 PM
Psychic weapon master also gives kensai-like enchants, 1/2 manifester progression, and some feat-like stuff. Stiff entrance requirements.

Which book is "Psychic weapon master" from?