PDA

View Full Version : Call of Cthulhu?



tahu88810
2008-02-27, 12:24 PM
So I heard that there was a D20 game (or adventurer or something like that) based on Lovecraft's Call of Cthulhu...what exactly is it? And whats it like?

Is it just a series of D&D adventures? Or is it something else? and most importantly, how much would it cost on Ebay, assuming I could find it?

Shishnarfne
2008-02-27, 12:29 PM
Call of Cthulhu is its own gaming system... I think that there might be two versions (one D20, one non-D20), but I just exhausted my knowledge of the system... I'd expect costs on par with D&D core books or lower.

Mr. Friendly
2008-02-27, 12:30 PM
So I heard that there was a D20 game (or adventurer or something like that) based on Lovecraft's Call of Cthulhu...what exactly is it? And whats it like?

Is it just a series of D&D adventures? Or is it something else? and most importantly, how much would it cost on Ebay, assuming I could find it?

There is indeed d20 CoC.

I recommend against it unless you want to have ready made Cthulhu monsters to drop into D&D.

I would stick with Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu game, which I feel, is a better system for the game.

That being said, in either version, PCs typically play various normal people whoo are investigating some occult thing or another.

A very high powered version of this would be something akin to the group in Hellboy or League of Extrordinary Gentlemen.

Lower powered... well... you've read Lovecraft's books... right?

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Call-Cthulhu-Horror-Roleplaying-WotC/dp/0786926392)

Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Cthulhu_(role-playing_game))

Cuddly
2008-02-27, 12:34 PM
I would second getting Chaosium's CoC. The percentile mechanic is a much better, grittier feel than d20. There isn't HP inflation, skills only get better as you use them, and there isn't already a rigid set of rules in place for the players to abuse and actually be able to defeat the monsters.

In d20, the assumption is that you're going to defeat the monsters. Chaosium CoC, your players may end up going through a couple characters, depending on how smart they play (cowardice is usually rewarded). Which, imo, is how it should go in the cthulhu universe.

pendell
2008-02-27, 12:40 PM
Call of Cthulhu is its own gaming system... I think that there might be two versions (one D20, one non-D20), but I just exhausted my knowledge of the system... I'd expect costs on par with D&D core books or lower.

KODT did a satire on the system awhile back. Can't find it immediately ... key bits I remember.

"Hey, let's play scream of Kuchuloo!"
"It's been awhile since I've had to take 1d6 in sanity points. Cool!"

LATER ...

DM: Amongst the ruins of Ginntonic university you find an ancient leather-bound.
Player: I burn it!
Player 2: Brian, that could be an important clue!
Player 1: Trust me, Sara. I play a lot of Kuchuloo and one thing I know is BURN THE BOOKS!

LATER still ...

DM: And as the creeping horror comes out of the festering depths, it grins wickedly as you flamethrower ... runs out of fluid!

Player 3: They won't die! THEY JUST WON'T DIE!

Player 2: You're right , Brian. Staying in the back of the party with your eyes shut does work!

Player 1: Heh, wait until they try the magic items.

===============

What I broadly picked up from this ... if the satire is at all true-to-life, is that Cthulthu is an acquired taste. If you don't mind near-invincible enemies and having to roll every few turns to see if your character has gone stark raving mad, you might enjoy it.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Attilargh
2008-02-27, 12:45 PM
There's also the game CthulhuTech by WildFire (what the R'lyeh is with these guys and camelcase, anyway?) that can be summed as "Call of Cthulhu meets Neon Genesis Evangelion". I've yet to read it properly, but I think they've actually pulled off the admittedly silly-sounding premise.

tahu88810
2008-02-27, 12:54 PM
Ah, ok then.

thanks for the help.


I think I'm gonna have to get it now, just to try it...and drive my players insane XD

Project_Mayhem
2008-02-27, 12:57 PM
OK, basically, Call of Cthulhu is predominantly about investigative/ survival horror. Adventures tend to start as you hear about something odd, investigate it, and gradually discover elements of the mythos.

Importantly, what people tend to say about it, that everything kills you always die or go insane etc. is no more true than saying 'every game of DnD involves going into a generic dungeon and hitting monsters' - its just a stereotype that may or may not be true depending on how you play. I've played in campaigns that lasted for ages with few deaths, and I've had one off sessions where everyone died, went insane, got mindraped, or (once) got actually raped. By a deep one. Basically its just play style.

That said, most of the Lovecraftian beasties are very powerful, and the game has a stronger emphasis on roleplay and problem solving than fighting. The general rule is guns are awesome against humans and weaker things, like ghouls, but anything bigger and you need to think laterally to beat it.

As for the editions, go with Chaosiums BRP system. The D20 one is out of print, and you'll have to take a mortgage out to buy it.

EDIT: I didnt actually give my opinion - it kicks arse. Probably my favorite rpg. Nothing tops playing a calm collected shotgun-toting proffesor. And watching the character devolution.

Mr. Friendly
2008-02-27, 01:18 PM
As for the editions, go with Chaosiums BRP system. The D20 one is out of print, and you'll have to take a mortgage out to buy it.


I believe you will find the Amazon link I listed has the Cthulhu d20 for $30 - hardly a need to get a mortgage. :smalltongue:

However, don't get it - it's crap. Chaosium is much better.

SamTheCleric
2008-02-27, 01:19 PM
I believe you will find the Amazon link I listed has the Cthulhu d20 for $30 - hardly a need to get a mortgage. :smalltongue:

However, don't get it - it's crap. Chaosium is much better.

Make a sanity check for using cited resources.

Mr. Friendly
2008-02-27, 01:21 PM
Made it by 1!

Oh crap I didn't take points off for when I read that Occult Tome of Horror!

AAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH! !!!!!1111111

Woop! Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop!!!

Woooooooooooooooooo!

Azerian Kelimon
2008-02-27, 01:22 PM
There's also the game CthulhuTech by WildFire (what the R'lyeh is with these guys and camelcase, anyway?) that can be summed as "Call of Cthulhu meets Neon Genesis Evangelion". I've yet to read it properly, but I think they've actually pulled off the admittedly silly-sounding premise.

That premise knocks 40 SAN points off my score, with no save. Are you sure that is NOT a joke?

Oh, and there's also the LARP variant of Cthulhu: Get on the 4chan boards and try to read through every thread without going insane or a meme fetishist.

KoDT69
2008-02-27, 01:33 PM
KODT did a satire on the system awhile back. Can't find it immediately ... key bits I remember.

"Hey, let's play scream of Kuchuloo!"

I didn't do that! Oh wait, you meant Knights of the Dinner Table. Yes that's where my name came from. That was season 1 episode 5 IIRC of the flash cartoons that once existed on hoodyhoo.com which is now expired. I managed to save the first 6 and took for granted they would always be there, and missed out on the second set of 6. Anybody know where I can find them? I'd be glad to put them all up on a website if I can get permission from Jolly Blackburn or at least Kenzer & Co.

I think the whole survivalist of CoC is awesome, but I'd rather just adapt the stuff to D&D 3.5 and it will be just like an ECL 6 group facing stuff at CR14+ every encounter. I've done a lot of scenarios like that, where the players were severely underpowered for what they were facing. It caused a lot more planning and strategies than the norm for the group, and I got a very positive response for my methods. Why fight 12 kobolds when there can be 500? More XP but even the higher level guys had to watch out to not get swarmed-flanked-sneakattacked!

DementedFellow
2008-02-27, 01:34 PM
To the OP, CoC is the first system that got me into roleplaying in the first place.

Before I played it, the thought of D&D and its ilk seemed nerdy and simply not my tastes. But the Keeper (CoC's DM/GM) told me that it was basically a system that uses a horror spin. "Basically you play a character in a horror movie." He said.

That's the easiest way to describe it. A lot of Lovecraft's work were written in pulp comics and a number of his stories are the inspiration for movies and other books by contemporary authors (most notably Stephen King).

If you are interested in learning more about the system, even running it. Yog-Sothoth.com (http://www.yog-sothoth.com/) has a very active community and basically no question is too stupid. To some people it can be a very rewarding system as oddball characters are normal in many regards. To others it simply lacks the "I take out my +3 battleaxe and charge ahead"-feel to it.

Cuddly
2008-02-27, 01:43 PM
I think the whole survivalist of CoC is awesome, but I'd rather just adapt the stuff to D&D 3.5 and it will be just like an ECL 6 group facing stuff at CR14+ every encounter. I've done a lot of scenarios like that, where the players were severely underpowered for what they were facing. It caused a lot more planning and strategies than the norm for the group, and I got a very positive response for my methods. Why fight 12 kobolds when there can be 500? More XP but even the higher level guys had to watch out to not get swarmed-flanked-sneakattacked!

But look at the spells any CL6 caster is tossing around. All those would be seriously SAN draining. No mortal would ever be tossing those magics around; not without serious detriment to his mind.

And what madman would ever ally himself with a dwarf? Those mongrel, squat creatures, fondling their axes as their degenerate gray eyes glint with hidden, savage lust....

No, d20 is ALL wrong.

DementedFellow
2008-02-27, 01:43 PM
I think the whole survivalist of CoC is awesome, but I'd rather just adapt the stuff to D&D 3.5 and it will be just like an ECL 6 group facing stuff at CR14+ every encounter. I've done a lot of scenarios like that, where the players were severely underpowered for what they were facing. It caused a lot more planning and strategies than the norm for the group, and I got a very positive response for my methods. Why fight 12 kobolds when there can be 500? More XP but even the higher level guys had to watch out to not get swarmed-flanked-sneakattacked!

The d20 Cthulhu, in my opinion, is meant to be more of a supplement to D&D more than a stand-alone system. I know it sounds odd, and I know it goes against genre, but the characters don't level in scale with creature of the same HD. I mean it just seems like with all the immunities a number of the baddies have, along with the conventional weaponry available, you're not going to be able to hold your own unless you have a whole cadre of policemen with you, furiously firing at the squamous mound quivering before you.

So, OP, if you are planning on going with the d20 CoC, you might as well have the players be from whatever D&D setting you like. The d20 version is a lot more combat oriented, and you're just going to have frustrated characters who can't hit the broad side of the barn even at level 5.

tahu88810
2008-02-27, 01:58 PM
hm...
I see

Alright, thanks again! :)

I think I'm gonna convert D&D rules to Cthulhu stuff on my own for a bit, atleast till I save up the cash to buy one of the actual settings, it'll probably be the chaosiums...


now, would you consider the Colour out of Space to be an ooze?

Mr. Friendly
2008-02-27, 02:01 PM
hm...
I see

Alright, thanks again! :)

I think I'm gonna convert D&D rules to Cthulhu stuff on my own for a bit, atleast till I save up the cash to buy one of the actual settings, it'll probably be the chaosiums...


now, would you consider the Colour out of Space to be an ooze?

Hrrm.. trying to remember.. I know it is in the sourcebook... I am pretty sure it had the (Incorporeal) subtype whatever it was... lemme see if I can find it...

Edit: While poking around... I came across this http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1589940482/waynesworldof-20

I don't know if it's any good, but it "sounds" good...

Kantur
2008-02-27, 02:12 PM
hm...
I see

Alright, thanks again! :)

I think I'm gonna convert D&D rules to Cthulhu stuff on my own for a bit, atleast till I save up the cash to buy one of the actual settings, it'll probably be the chaosiums...


now, would you consider the Colour out of Space to be an ooze?



eBay's probably a good place to pick up a copy fairly cheaply...

And for converting D&D stuff to Cthulhian, if you're planning on keeping it D20 until you get a Chaosium book, you might want to look at this. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm)

Oh, and from what I remember, 4th Edition through to 6th are pretty much the same. (But I recommend 5th (May be 5.5), for the cartoons at the back)

pendell
2008-02-27, 02:14 PM
I didn't do that! Oh wait, you meant Knights of the Dinner Table. Yes that's where my name came from. That was season 1 episode 5 IIRC of the flash cartoons that once existed on hoodyhoo.com which is now expired. I managed to save the first 6 and took for granted they would always be there, and missed out on the second set of 6. Anybody know where I can find them? I'd be glad to put them all up on a website if I can get permission from Jolly Blackburn or at least Kenzer & Co.



To the best of my knowledge that second set is just ... gone. Disappointing, really.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

horseboy
2008-02-27, 02:20 PM
Mmmmm Chaosium Call of Cthulthu. The only game I've ever gotten to use a brief case nuke in. :smallsmile:

fendrin
2008-02-27, 02:24 PM
I have to STRONGLY disagree with people saying that d20 CoC is an add-on for D&D.

Now, I do have to premise my remarks with that I have not played the Chaosium version, so it *may* be better. I am not convinced the love for that system isn't just the rampant "the old system was better" mentality I see all over the place with RPGs.

Anyway, I bought d20 CoC because I wanted to run a modern game, and didn;t like Spycraft or d20 modern. I wanted more of an 'everyman' feel to the characters, which you just don't get with those other systems.

What I like the most about d20 CoC is that the characters have a *chance* for survival. Much more dramatic than just seeing whether your character is going to die or go insane.

I suppose because of that, I don't use too many of the Mythos-specific monsters, except the weaker ones (like Deep Ones). and like in D&D, I stick to low levels.

My favorite tactic to take with a CoC campaign is to have the players be completely unaware what the premise is going to be. Just the basics. A group of college students go camping by a lake. An army squad in Vietnam during the war. A family visits the grave of their father.

Geek kudos to anyone who recognizes the movies I reference with those examples...

Mr. Friendly
2008-02-27, 02:37 PM
I have to STRONGLY disagree with people saying that d20 CoC is an add-on for D&D.

Now, I do have to premise my remarks with that I have not played the Chaosium version, so it *may* be better. I am not convinced the love for that system isn't just the rampant "the old system was better" mentality I see all over the place with RPGs.

It's not, it's really not. The Chaosium version *really* is better. And I say that singing praises to the d20 concept overall. The stats are just better defining to the characters and setting. It's just more nuanced than D&D. As others have said, the d20 system is really better for kicking in the door and wading into combat with the monsters, instead of the more Chaosium sort... which is more like running around the haunted mansion looking for clues that the ghost is really old man jenkins looking to steal the land for a uranium mine....except then it turns out old man jenkins' brain has been replaced and is actually in a cylinder down in the mine...


Anyway, I bought d20 CoC because I wanted to run a modern game, and didn;t like Spycraft or d20 modern. I wanted more of an 'everyman' feel to the characters, which you just don't get with those other systems.

What I like the most about d20 CoC is that the characters have a *chance* for survival. Much more dramatic than just seeing whether your character is going to die or go insane.

I suppose because of that, I don't use too many of the Mythos-specific monsters, except the weaker ones (like Deep Ones). and like in D&D, I stick to low levels.

CoC really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. The problem comes in when you have a group of players, fresh from playing D&D or the like, who then play CoC the same way. It just doesn't work out very well. :smallbiggrin:


My favorite tactic to take with a CoC campaign is to have the players be completely unaware what the premise is going to be. Just the basics. A group of college students go camping by a lake. An army squad in Vietnam during the war. A family visits the grave of their father.

Geek kudos to anyone who recognizes the movies I reference with those examples...

Friday the 13th (numeral) / ?? / ??

tahu88810
2008-02-27, 02:38 PM
hmmm...alright

SO...so far, I'll be using the sanity system

Knowledge (arcana) will be replaced with Knowledge (Occult), most other knowledges will stay the same.

I'm gonna work on statting the colour out of space and that should work as the first encounter... ^_^

Project_Mayhem
2008-02-27, 02:42 PM
What I like the most about d20 CoC is that the characters have a *chance* for survival. Much more dramatic than just seeing whether your character is going to die or go insane

I have to point out that that is a complete misnomer - I've seen D20 call of cthulhu scenarios that can kill you just as dead as BRP ones. Remember that in both versions the stats for the great old ones, and elder gods etc. is essentially 'you die'*. The difference is that BRP is more realistic in an ordinary combat situation - a blast from a shotgun will probably kill or disable you. . D20 Modern and the like are genuinely great for Sin City style games, but I personally prefer a more gritty and realistic fight with the Lovecraftian setting


*Although I #think# the D20 version includes full stats for Cthulhu and co. to transpose into epic Dnd

EDIT: kinda ninja'd

puppyavenger
2008-02-27, 02:53 PM
*Although I #think# the D20 version includes full stats for Cthulhu and co. to transpose into epic Dnd

EDIT: kinda ninja'd

As long as yog-sothoth doesn't have stats..

Cuddly
2008-02-27, 02:54 PM
I have to STRONGLY disagree with people saying that d20 CoC is an add-on for D&D.

Now, I do have to premise my remarks with that I have not played the Chaosium version, so it *may* be better. I am not convinced the love for that system isn't just the rampant "the old system was better" mentality I see all over the place with RPGs.

Anyway, I bought d20 CoC because I wanted to run a modern game, and didn;t like Spycraft or d20 modern. I wanted more of an 'everyman' feel to the characters, which you just don't get with those other systems.

What I like the most about d20 CoC is that the characters have a *chance* for survival. Much more dramatic than just seeing whether your character is going to die or go insane.

I suppose because of that, I don't use too many of the Mythos-specific monsters, except the weaker ones (like Deep Ones). and like in D&D, I stick to low levels.

My favorite tactic to take with a CoC campaign is to have the players be completely unaware what the premise is going to be. Just the basics. A group of college students go camping by a lake. An army squad in Vietnam during the war. A family visits the grave of their father.

Geek kudos to anyone who recognizes the movies I reference with those examples...

I played Chaosium after the d20 version, so it's definitely not an "old version is better" thing for me. The mechanics really are better for that sort of setting. Especially the emphasis on DM control and players being in the dark. No rules lawyering or power creep or encouragement of spiked chain builds or any of that crap. Well, you can TRY; but the deep ones are still going to eat you.

CoC is the sort of setting where you play the monk and not the ubercharger, and Chaosium's mechanics just feel better.


EC:
The first one was (Friday the 13th [no college students, really], Cabin Fever, Camp Fear, Lake Placid, list goes on....), the third most likely Night of the Living Dead (first one), and the second is...?

Cuddly
2008-02-27, 03:09 PM
I have to point out that that is a complete misnomer - I've seen D20 call of cthulhu scenarios that can kill you just as dead as BRP ones. Remember that in both versions the stats for the great old ones, and elder gods etc. is essentially 'you die'*. The difference is that BRP is more realistic in an ordinary combat situation - a blast from a shotgun will probably kill or disable you. . D20 Modern and the like are genuinely great for Sin City style games, but I personally prefer a more gritty and realistic fight with the Lovecraftian setting


*Although I #think# the D20 version includes full stats for Cthulhu and co. to transpose into epic Dnd

EDIT: kinda ninja'd

Yeah, but in Chaosium, Cthulhu has an Ex-like ability where he eats 1d4 invesitgators/round. The whole appeal of Chaosium, as opposed to d20, is that you run away. There are no rules (like stats for deity-level entities) to delude players or DM into thinking that the players should win, or even have a chance of winning. CoC is all about being faced with inumerable and incomprehensible horror, and trying to sneak around it. d20 is, more or less, "I attack. Fireball fireball fireball. Yay loots! Levels!" That's not really conducive to telling a Lovecraft story. d20 has too many clunky mechanics to describe obtuse combat-related stuff.

tahu88810
2008-02-27, 04:09 PM
Peasant: "OH NO! ITS THE ELDER GODS!"
Party Mage: "TIME STOP!"

and thus, Cthulhu and Co. were viciously slaughtered by a band of adventurers. :smalleek:

fendrin
2008-02-27, 04:25 PM
EDIT: Holy wall of text, Batman!


It's not, it's really not. The Chaosium version *really* is better. And I say that singing praises to the d20 concept overall. The stats are just better defining to the characters and setting. It's just more nuanced than D&D. As others have said, the d20 system is really better for kicking in the door and wading into combat with the monsters, instead of the more Chaosium sort... which is more like running around the haunted mansion looking for clues that the ghost is really old man jenkins looking to steal the land for a uranium mine....except then it turns out old man jenkins' brain has been replaced and is actually in a cylinder down in the mine...
See, I've never really understood how d20 was BAD at the latter example. Just because D&D rarely operates that way doesn't mean that d20 can't. So please explain how the Chaosium system is better at it. (I'm not saying it isn't... I don't know that system at all).


CoC really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. The problem comes in when you have a group of players, fresh from playing D&D or the like, who then play CoC the same way. It just doesn't work out very well. :smallbiggrin:
I suppose getting a bunch of D&D players to try a CoC game could lead to that. I don't consider that to be a flaw of d20 CoC, though. More a flaw of (some) D&D players. :smalltongue:[/QUOTE]


SO...so far, I'll be using the sanity system
from what I understand, the sanity system was lifted straight from the chaosium version. If that's true, it should give you a hint of the way the chaosium mechanics work.


I have to point out that that is a complete misnomer - I've seen D20 call of cthulhu scenarios that can kill you just as dead as BRP ones. Remember that in both versions the stats for the great old ones, and elder gods etc. is essentially 'you die'*.
Very true, and I did not mean to indicate otherwise.


The difference is that BRP is more realistic in an ordinary combat situation - a blast from a shotgun will probably kill or disable you. .
At low levels, d20 CoC is the same way. Which, as I said, is how I play. IIRC a generic shotgun does ~1d10, and all characters have a d6 HD. It doesn't take much to see that even the toughest 1st level character can be torn a part by a single shotgun blast. Besides, I don't buy into the 'HP loss means you got hurt' idea. It's basically a 'luck' mechanic. A character only has a limited amount of lucky dodges before they get seriously hurt. Again, kind of like the way most horror movies/stories work.


D20 Modern and the like are genuinely great for Sin City style games, but I personally prefer a more gritty and realistic fight with the Lovecraftian setting Me too! d20 CoC meets my needs for that. As I said, that's why I chose it over d20 Modern and Spycraft.


I played Chaosium after the d20 version, so it's definitely not an "old version is better" thing for me.
Good to know. Too many gamers are too afraid of change to admit when a different system is better than the one they are currently using.


The mechanics really are better for that sort of setting. Especially the emphasis on DM control and players being in the dark. No rules lawyering or power creep or encouragement of spiked chain builds or any of that crap. Well, you can TRY; but the deep ones are still going to eat you. See, I don't see any of that happening in d20 CoC either. Well, some players might try, but again, it doesn't really work. Also, I do a pretty good job of keeping my players in the dark and keeping control of the game. I think that has a lot more to do with the DM/GM than the system. Could you provide a specific example of how the Chaosium mechanics handle it better?


CoC is the sort of setting where you play the monk and not the ubercharger, and Chaosium's mechanics just feel better. Please, no monk arguements... I like monks... :smalltongue:. Besides, the d20 CoC 'classes' are essentially modified Experts, so I don't really see an issue with power builds... in fact d20 CoC is much more power balanced than D&D, simply because anything you're good at can get you into a ton of trouble.
Spellcasting? Fun, but very dangerous. Stat damage. ouch.
Scholar? Knowledge is power... but it also eats away at your sanity.
Combat? No good against most enemies, then what are you going to do?
Psionics? Fine, but you go crazy a LOT faster.


EC:
The first one was (Friday the 13th [no college students, really], Cabin Fever, Camp Fear, Lake Placid, list goes on....), the third most likely Night of the Living Dead (first one), and the second is...?
You were the closest. Crocodile (very similar to Lake Placid, but with college students, not scientists), Predator (granted, it's as much scifi as horror), and Night of the Living Dead.

I think my point comes across well enough, though... Ordinary people in an ordinary situation (well, real-world feasible anyway) come across something that is very far from ordinary, and try to stop it (or at least survive it, but the two typically go hand in hand).

EDIT:
d20 is, more or less, "I attack. Fireball fireball fireball. Yay loots! Levels!" That's not really conducive to telling a Lovecraft story. d20 has too many clunky mechanics to describe obtuse combat-related stuff.That's D&D, not d20 CoC. Same base mechanics, but other than that, they are COMPLETELY different. There are no fireballs in d20 CoC.

Cuddly
2008-02-27, 04:42 PM
At low levels, d20 CoC is the same way. Which, as I said, is how I play. IIRC a generic shotgun does ~1d10, and all characters have a d6 HD. It doesn't take much to see that even the toughest 1st level character can be torn a part by a single shotgun blast. Besides, I don't buy into the 'HP loss means you got hurt' idea. It's basically a 'luck' mechanic. A character only has a limited amount of lucky dodges before they get seriously hurt. Again, kind of like the way most horror movies/stories work.

The level mechanic is clunky. Chaosium gets rid of it entirely, since who actually learns new languages after killing a bunch of werewolves?

HP is also clunky. Sure, if you have 100s of HP, you need to explain HP in the luck manner. There's no necessity for that with Chaosium, since no one is going to have that much HP. Hit points literally means how many times you get hit. It's a numeric representation of physical punishment.


See, I don't see any of that happening in d20 CoC either. Well, some players might try, but again, it doesn't really work. Also, I do a pretty good job of keeping my players in the dark and keeping control of the game. I think that has a lot more to do with the DM/GM than the system. Could you provide a specific example of how the Chaosium mechanics handle it better?

Certainly, it's a part of the player-GM dynamics. But not having explicit rules for every little thing tends to lend to the McGuyvering in low-power games. As above, the HP mechanic works better. So does the class mechanic. Basically, you start as a profession with access to a handful of skills. These skills are the real bones of your character, and everyone gets access to the same skills. Some are far better at the ones they train in, but there are no bizarre extractions that you see in d20 where classes have special abilities. There are also no feats, which I like, since feats, imo, decrease the granularity of a character. At arbitrary intervals a character suddenly gains the ability to do something it previously couldn't do, etc.

Don't get me wrong; I love d20 for high fantasy and heroic battles. And playing d20 at low levels is just as lethal as playing C's CoC. But if you have a character that survives enough sessions, you'll level. And then the abstraction between mechanics and game play grow (such as HP).


Please, no monk arguements... I like monks... :smalltongue:. Besides, the d20 CoC 'classes' are essentially modified Experts, so I don't really see an issue with power builds... in fact d20 CoC is much more power balanced than D&D, simply because anything you're good at can get you into a ton of trouble.
Spellcasting? Fun, but very dangerous. Stat damage. ouch.
Scholar? Knowledge is power... but it also eats away at your sanity.
Combat? No good against most enemies, then what are you going to do?
Psionics? Fine, but you go crazy a LOT faster.

Sure, you can scale the lethality with d20. It's not hard- wizards game plan with d20 is to just publish bigger numbers. Not hard to move everything a decimal place to the right if characters are too good. restrict this, that etc. However, Chaosium just gets rid of the vestigial D&D 3x mechanics in d20 CoC, and the feel, at least for me, is much fresher, slimmed down, and organic. It's a skill based system, not a class based one, which, for me, reduces the division between mechanics and game play. The skill system is intuitive for the sort of play that makes a good CoC session.

Can you do it with d20? Absolutely. But Chaosium does it better.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-02-27, 04:43 PM
Could the third one be apocalypse now? Because Conrad's Kurtz is much scarier than anything Lovecraft made up.

SurlySeraph
2008-02-27, 04:58 PM
CoC really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. The problem comes in when you have a group of players, fresh from playing D&D or the like, who then play CoC the same way. It just doesn't work out very well. :smallbiggrin:

"The gates slowly grind open, as if they were struggling to keep their contents inside. A vast expanse of flesh glistens in the light, like an upright pool of blood. Hundreds of feet above you, a mass of tentacles writhes forth from the indescribably hideous thing that must be the abomination's face. Cthulu has come."

"I waste him with my greataxe!"

fendrin
2008-02-27, 05:20 PM
So does the class mechanic. Basically, you start as a profession with access to a handful of skills. These skills are the real bones of your character, and everyone gets access to the same skills. Some are far better at the ones they train in, but there are no bizarre extractions that you see in d20 where classes have special abilities. There are also no feats, which I like, since feats, imo, decrease the granularity of a character. At arbitrary intervals a character suddenly gains the ability to do something it previously couldn't do, etc.

Have you read d20 CoC? You just described it to a T. Seriously. No level-based special abilities, skills as the core of the game, which you pick from the same pool as everyone else, profession templates determining the bulk of your 'class skills'...

Personally, the only thing about d20 CoC that I don't like is that you can level up beyond, say, 5th level. If you survive that long.


Chaosium just gets rid of the vestigial D&D 3x mechanics in d20 CoC, and the feel, at least for me, is much fresher, slimmed down, and organic. It's a skill based system, not a class based one, which, for me, reduces the division between mechanics and game play. The skill system is intuitive for the sort of play that makes a good CoC session.
Now that's the kind of info I was looking for. I have played in point/skill-based systems before, and generally like them. My biggest beef is that it seems like you are given just a tiny number of points at a time, and can do very little with them. The characters just seem... static. Maybe it's just the GMs I've played with. Of course, that is also often not an issue with CoC, because although it is not as bad as some people think, the character loss rate *is* high.

My analysis: d20 CoC is good if you already know d20 and stick to low levels.

horseboy
2008-02-27, 05:21 PM
Granted, it's been a decade ago, but IIRC Nunzio had like 13 hps. He was a walking wall of a man. Everybody wanted to hide behind him, except he was usually up in the church tower with his sniper rifle.
But ultimately it wasn't about actually killing the stuff, but in the preparation you undertook to uncover and stop the evil. Skills like Credit Score and Art really are actually more useful than weapon skills. Skills were actually there to interact with the scene instead of just to get you to the next monster. I think I used Chemistry more often than I did shotgun, and I loved my USAS12

Project_Mayhem
2008-02-27, 05:30 PM
It's all about library use. I don't think I've ever played a campaign with a character with less than 60 in that.

Then spot and listen. The sheer amount of clues you can miss without those.

Ralfarius
2008-02-27, 07:55 PM
Wasn't there some sort of Dark Ages Cthulhu variant that came out a little while back? I remember reading stuff about the Black Forest in Germany, and the idea of pilgrims and the like coming into contact with things man was not meant to know, and the idea that the lower technology level made things even more difficult on characters. It's tough enough having to put down a roving pack of Deep Ones with a 12-gauge, imagine having to fend them off with a sword, and no car to jump into and drive away?

Xuincherguixe
2008-02-27, 08:18 PM
You say you were attacked by Deep Ones? What you describe cannot have been created by god. What you say is clearly blasphemy. Pray for gods forgiveness for your betrayal of him, and we shall be merciful.

Attilargh
2008-02-28, 03:20 AM
That premise knocks 40 SAN points off my score, with no save. Are you sure that is NOT a joke?
Yes. It's an honest horror game where humanity fights a losing battle against Mi-Go in mecha.

I'm sorry, I can't not make it sound like a joke. But seriously, it's pretty promising.

Kurald Galain
2008-02-28, 03:54 AM
Have you read d20 CoC? You just described it to a T. Seriously. No level-based special abilities, skills as the core of the game, which you pick from the same pool as everyone else, profession templates determining the bulk of your 'class skills'...

Well, therein lies a problem, because the d20 skill system really doesn't work all that well. It's too random. If you want a game based on skills, you should use a system created for skills - not a system created for combat and magic, with the skills tacked on as an afterthought.

The overall problem with d20 COC is that it its point is for the PCs to fight the monsters, and give them a decent chance at it; whereas in Chaosium, the point is to run away from the monsters, and you get a decent chance at that.


My biggest beef is that it seems like you are given just a tiny number of points at a time, and can do very little with them. The characters just seem... static.
That's not really an issue with the system, but it's the matter of how much experience points the GM awards. In most skill-based systems I know of, you can have olympic-level skill ranks as a beginning character.

JBento
2008-02-28, 05:29 AM
I perused the d20CoC rules, and I have throw my lot with Chaosium's as well. It was gritty, deadly and had a degree of Lovecraftian versimilitude that I think it's just not possible with the d20 system.

Madness. Wounds. Fear. It's all there, in that one Chaosium book (though I advise to get the adventures and campaigns as well, since they're REALLY well thought out).

Library Use IS a must, as are Spot, Listen and the vital Psychology (the equivalent to Sense Motive - paraphrasing House, EVERYONE LIES in that damn game) - but I still believe that nothing, NOTHING trumps the Dodge skill, seriously. That's what kept my character alive as Snakemen shot their DeathRays, and Rhinoceros-like creatures of by-gone ages made charges that would demolish small buildings.

Also, Explosives. Oh, how I loved my dynamite sticks :smallbiggrin:

We actually ran from Cthulu once, speeding towards our boat as the island where he and his cultists were began to once more sink bvenetath the waves after we disrupted the ritual - but we STILL know he's there, lurking, waiting, plotting... brrrrr

The most memorable time however, was when me and a friend (yeh, we splitted the party - somehow, we survived. Well, I survived - HE should've put more points in Dodge) were leaving a snakemen infested cave system, and just as we were about to cross the exit - we hear a baby's cry from deep inside the caves. We genuinely turned to each other and simultaneously said "F***!!!". You don't get that in d20 :smallsmile:

Also, of course you play a monk instead of the über-charger - they can run away better...

Project_Mayhem
2008-02-28, 08:04 AM
We actually ran from Cthulu once, speeding towards our boat as the island where he and his cultists were began to once more sink bvenetath the waves after we disrupted the ritual - but we STILL know he's there, lurking, waiting, plotting... brrrrr


The most memorable time however, was when me and a friend (yeh, we splitted the party - somehow, we survived. Well, I survived - HE should've put more points in Dodge) were leaving a snakemen infested cave system, and just as we were about to cross the exit - we hear a baby's cry from deep inside the caves. We genuinely turned to each other and simultaneously said "F***!!!". You don't get that in d20

Sounds like you were playing Shadows of Yog-Sothoth. How did that go, because it seems to be one of the more fawed adventures. As in, played as written, there should be a TPK every chapter.

Its got awesome bits though, like the bit

Out in the desert on the abandoned film set, with all the invisible monsters, where you have to hunt down the statue things to destroy them. That was the scariest, moodiest bit of adventuring ever. Sitting in candlelight for the video bit. #shudder#

My favorite campaign is Tatters of the King. No contest.

Mr. Friendly
2008-02-28, 08:40 AM
See, I've never really understood how d20 was BAD at the latter example. Just because D&D rarely operates that way doesn't mean that d20 can't. So please explain how the Chaosium system is better at it. (I'm not saying it isn't... I don't know that system at all).

Essentially the Chaosium system is better because the players are weaker and it's much more difficult to *ever* reach a point where you can stand toe to toe with anything really nasty.

The system is skill based rather than level based, your skills may increase when you use them.

I dunno much else to say on it, in d20 you might need to roll a 15+ to dodge a death ray, which to me doesn't seem all that hard. In Chaosium you need to roll 01-20 out of 100 and that seems a lot harder. I realise the statistical probabilities etc. etc. ... don't care. I find mojo is a lot easier to use on d20s than d00s.

hewhosaysfish
2008-02-28, 08:45 AM
"The gates slowly grind open, as if they were struggling to keep their contents inside. A vast expanse of flesh glistens in the light, like an upright pool of blood. Hundreds of feet above you, a mass of tentacles writhes forth from the indescribably hideous thing that must be the abomination's face. Cthulu has come."

"I waste him with my greataxe!"

I recall a story, possibly apocryphal, of a thoroughly DnDed gamer trying CoC for te first time. Ther group got hold of a Tome of Ancient Evil (TM) which that player promptly used to go around blasting everything with magic: fireballs, lightning bolts, flying around, teleporting, the full DnD Wizard shtick.
And at the end of the session he asks the GM "So when do I get the Sanity points back from casting all those spells?"
:smalleek:

JBento
2008-02-28, 09:02 AM
Sounds like you were playing Shadows of Yog-Sothoth. How did that go, because it seems to be one of the more fawed adventures. As in, played as written, there should be a TPK every chapter.

Its got awesome bits though, like the bit

Out in the desert on the abandoned film set, with all the invisible monsters, where you have to hunt down the statue things to destroy them. That was the scariest, moodiest bit of adventuring ever. Sitting in candlelight for the video bit. #shudder#

My favorite campaign is Tatters of the King. No contest.


No TPKs, but there was quite a bit of character turn-over. I think most everyone had a dead character, or a character that was saved at the very last instance - and I'm pretty sure the GM didn't skew the dice, cause he's more of the type that would laugh maniacally whenever someone blundered into death/insanity.

OTOH, the non-TPKs may have been due to MY character (who survived the whole thing), which had a huge Dodge and quite considerable Explosives and Throwing skills. In the previous campaign, The Mountains of Madness (Return to?), he saved nearly the whole party by dropping a bunch of dynamite sticks onto an advancing shoggoth from a plane (piloted by another character). The resulting explosion turned shoggy into so much goo, sent half the party tumbling across the ruined city and threw the flying Elder Things through the air and into disarray, allowing the rest of the folks (once they got to their feet) to pump shotgun shells into their plump and stunned bodies. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Needless to say, Dynamite became my weapon of choice, which occasionally had quite the effect on the party - but then again, nobody told those guys to carry a flamethrower into the spoilered event above. So what if the things were mostly vulnerable to fire and some stupid chanting that didn't work that well anyway :smallwink:

Brauron
2008-02-28, 09:39 AM
Ahh, Call of Cthulhu. I GM it almost exclusively these days.

As my sig can attest, I'm currently running Shadows of Yog-Sothoth, and yeah, it needed extensive reworking on my part to make it workable. My group has just about reached the conclusion -- last session ended with them getting themselves stranded on Motu Nui, a small island off the coast of Easter Island. They melted down the R'lyeh Disk, the big MacGuffin of the campaign, so now they know their only hope of victory is to find Carl Stanford and shoot him repeatedly before he can raise R'lyeh. We've had six characters die and one go permanently insane, over the course of almost 20 sessions.

I have the D20 version of CofC on the shelf behind me right now, borrowed from the library of the gaming club I belong to. I would never consider running it...I just like the artwork (especially in the appendix on Lovecraftian D&D games...hehehe)

JBento
2008-02-28, 10:09 AM
Strangely enough, the Disc suffered the same fate on our hands... :smallbiggrin:

Project_Mayhem
2008-02-28, 11:19 AM
They melted down the R'lyeh Disk

fid you post a thread about that on Yog-Sothoth? I remember reading something like that. Funny idea though.

fendrin
2008-02-28, 11:32 AM
Well, therein lies a problem, because the d20 skill system really doesn't work all that well. It's too random. If you want a game based on skills, you should use a system created for skills - not a system created for combat and magic, with the skills tacked on as an afterthought.
While I generally agree with you, I don't agree that the d20 skill system, used appropriately, is too random. Particularly because characters can take 10 or 20 on most things in CoC (research, translations, searching, etc). Or maybe my players were better planners than average, so their characters had time to do those things? Skill Focus was also a very popular feat choice, unlike in D&D. Even at level 1 characters could easily hit a DC 15 skill checks consistently (one 'genius' [16 int] character started off with a +10 research check, so he regularly hit DC 30 research checks... at 1st level). Non-specialized skills should, in my opinion, be more random (a professor wiring explosives should have a decent chance to blow himself up).


The overall problem with d20 COC is that it its point is for the PCs to fight the monsters, and give them a decent chance at it; whereas in Chaosium, the point is to run away from the monsters, and you get a decent chance at that. I really see that more as a matter of DM style... my players never had a chance unless I wanted them to. Also, they spent a lot more time runnig from monsters than fighting them. Maybe it was my players, though. I still don't see how d20 CoC encourages fighting instead of running.


That's not really an issue with the system, but it's the matter of how much experience points the GM awards. In most skill-based systems I know of, you can have olympic-level skill ranks as a beginning character. Aye, I said as much.


I perused the d20CoC rules, and I have throw my lot with Chaosium's as well. It was gritty, deadly and had a degree of Lovecraftian versimilitude that I think it's just not possible with the d20 system.

Madness. Wounds. Fear. It's all there, in that one Chaosium book (though I advise to get the adventures and campaigns as well, since they're REALLY well thought out).
Wounds is one thing that I don't recall d20 CoC doing as much with as I would have liked. I know many DMs who houserule/ ad hoc that in D&D, and (though it rarely came up) I did that in d20 CoC as well. So, while it may not be intrinsic to the system, it is possible.


Library Use IS a must, as are Spot, Listen and the vital Psychology (the equivalent to Sense Motive - paraphrasing House, EVERYONE LIES in that damn game) - but I still believe that nothing, NOTHING trumps the Dodge skill, seriously. That's what kept my character alive as Snakemen shot their DeathRays, and Rhinoceros-like creatures of by-gone ages made charges that would demolish small buildings.
Aye, in d20 it's 'research' instead of 'library use' so as to include computer/internet research, and Sense Motive, but the skills are otherwise the same, and equally important. No Dodge skill, though, just AC and saving throws. I like that better because then you can't meta-plan the ultimate survivalist. Again, my characters never progressed above level 3 (and I would have come up with some in-game way to cap them at 5th if necessary).


The most memorable time however, was when me and a friend (yeh, we splitted the party - somehow, we survived. Well, I survived - HE should've put more points in Dodge) were leaving a snakemen infested cave system, and just as we were about to cross the exit - we hear a baby's cry from deep inside the caves. We genuinely turned to each other and simultaneously said "F***!!!". You don't get that in d20 :smallsmile: Why not? I've had plaenty of moments like that in both D&D and d20 CoC. It's a matter of good DMing, not the system.


Essentially the Chaosium system is better because the players are weaker and it's much more difficult to *ever* reach a point where you can stand toe to toe with anything really nasty.
never had that problem in my games, it's much more about the DM than the system. The only time my CoC characters stood toe-to-toe with monsters, it was a horde of viral-based zombies. Even then, it was nearly a TPK, but I had to let someone get away to spread the disease back to North America...


The system is skill based rather than level based, your skills may increase when you use them.
I do like that. That is a definite plus over d20. Still, is it totally random? If so some characters will progress faster than others, which I don't like. I like that in d20 smart characters learn skills faster than dumb characters.


I dunno much else to say on it, in d20 you might need to roll a 15+ to dodge a death ray, which to me doesn't seem all that hard. In Chaosium you need to roll 01-20 out of 100 and that seems a lot harder. I realise the statistical probabilities etc. etc. ... don't care. I find mojo is a lot easier to use on d20s than d00s.
Well, you picked numbers that ARE harder in the percentile system... 75% success rate on the d20 and 20% on the percentile... even that out and the system makes no difference.

As for mojo... I know a guy with incredible dice mojo (and we know he wasn't cheating). He single-handedly convinced one DM to use point buy systems... he once rolled a character with 4 18s. On another occasion (and a different system) he rolled a character with 10s on 6 out of the 10 stats (d10 roll per stat). In fact the one die type he has the least mojo with.... is the d20.

kingpocky
2008-02-28, 11:50 AM
I'm thinking of running a D20 Modern Shadow Chasers campaign with a magic system similar to CoC. The default rules for magic just don't feel right to me. The Urban Arcana classes all use Vancian magic, which is just out of place in a modern setting. The Occultist class is basically a glorified UMD check.

What about giving classes that specialize in magic-use the ability to stave off a certain amount of sanity/ability damage from casting spells? I want magic to be dangerous, but not so much so that it's effectively crippling to ever use it.

By the way, in case anyone doesn't know about this and is interested in the Sanity rules, here's a link: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm

Kantur
2008-02-28, 11:58 AM
I do like that. That is a definite plus over d20. Still, is it totally random? If so some characters will progress faster than others, which I don't like. I like that in d20 smart characters learn skills faster than dumb characters.


It's a combination of random and smart.

Basically when you start, based on your Intellience and Education stats you get x skill points to distribute (Some have to be in skills relating to your career, the others are free to go anywhere, including to boost those career skills more.)

When the GM decides to (Ours has it at the end of every other session), you roll a percentil dice against each skill you've succeeded on since the last skill-up point. If you get over the skill, you add 1d10 to it - so it's harder to increase skills the better you are, but the smarter you are, the more skill points you can spread around to start with.

fendrin
2008-02-28, 01:03 PM
It's a combination of random and smart.

Basically when you start, based on your Intellience and Education stats you get x skill points to distribute (Some have to be in skills relating to your career, the others are free to go anywhere, including to boost those career skills more.)

When the GM decides to (Ours has it at the end of every other session), you roll a percentil dice against each skill you've succeeded on since the last skill-up point. If you get over the skill, you add 1d10 to it - so it's harder to increase skills the better you are, but the smarter you are, the more skill points you can spread around to start with.

Hmm. Interesting. I like it. Of course, over long time play (assuming statistical probabilities hold true), dumb characters will catch up to smart characters.

If they live/stay sane that long, which is probably unlikely.

Kantur
2008-02-28, 01:08 PM
Depends how you do your starting skills. If both take only the same skills, probably, but if the smarter character takes more skills with their extra starting points, they should keep ahead roughly in more skills.

fendrin
2008-02-28, 01:40 PM
Depends how you do your starting skills. If both take only the same skills, probably, but if the smarter character takes more skills with their extra starting points, they should keep ahead roughly in more skills.

True. In that sense the advancement system favors a generalist over a specialist, but only up to a point (if you can't pass the check in the first place, you can't advance the skill).

Now, what about things that are used between adventures?
If a college student is studying physics, but never applies that knowledge during an adventure, they should still be advancing their physics skill (or equivalent).

Kantur
2008-02-28, 01:57 PM
There's certainly rules in the Chaosium books for taking classes at colleges, can't remember them off hand, but from what I remember, you get the break for your character to recover some sanity and increase skills, though at the expense of either needing a new character temporarily, everyone doing college/sanitorium stays for a few months, and evil schemes still continue unhindered further.

Project_Mayhem
2008-02-28, 07:38 PM
I'm thinking of running a D20 Modern Shadow Chasers campaign with a magic system similar to CoC

Call of the Cthulhu doesn't have a magic system. It has an extended suicide plan instead.

Player: I try to summon a dimensional shambler
GM: Ok (rolls) you fail. Lose 6 SAN
Player: Ok, I try again
GM: (rolls) you succed. Lose 10 SAN
Player: Right, finally. What happens.
GM: You see the Shambler (rolls) Lose 20 SAN. Oh, your now a gibbering wreck.

Slightly true story.

tahu88810
2008-02-28, 07:49 PM
Call of the Cthulhu doesn't have a magic system. It has an extended suicide plan instead.

Player: I try to summon a dimensional shambler
GM: Ok (rolls) you fail. Lose 6 SAN
Player: Ok, I try again
GM: (rolls) you succed. Lose 10 SAN
Player: Right, finally. What happens.
GM: You see the Shambler (rolls) Lose 20 SAN. Oh, your now a gibbering wreck.

Slightly true story.

Well...you can't have your cake and eat it too. Or so they say. :smallbiggrin:

sonofzeal
2008-02-28, 08:02 PM
I have the d20 CoC book sitting on my bedroom floor right now. Want to play it, but never had a chance and four friends willing to learn the system.

One thing I liked about it was that anybody can potentially use magic - spells are learned by in-game study, and as long as you can pass a few rolls you can now use that power. However, magic is almost universally detrimental to the caster. For example, any character who's read the right spellbooks can potentially cast "Locate Object", but would take 2 wis damage and lose 1d6 sanity points to do so. "Message" merely costs 1 sanity point, "Blind/Deafen" costs 3 Int and 2d6 sanity, and "Dismiss Hastur" (which can potentially banish Hastur's avatar or even Hastur himself on a decent d% roll) costs 20 int damage and 1d10 sanity points.

I have to say though, if I did play it I'd probably replace the Offensive and Defensive Investigator classes with the Generic Warrior and Generic Expert classes from UA, for a slightly higher power game experience without breaking atmosphere.

Brawls
2008-02-28, 10:26 PM
My group back in Jr high gave CoC a go. Unfortunately, most of us were not to into the Lovecraftian genre at the time. Still it was loads of fun in a sort of "line the next victim up" manner. We played the campaign in the early 1900's setting, where having an eletric torch (flashlight) was a big deal. My first character was a British Olympic fencer with a penchant for adventuring. He did not last too long :smallbiggrin:. Second character was a Mauritanian freighter mechanic who's tribal elders had charged with investigating an unmapped island he had seen on a previous voyage. Played as a highly superstitious coward, he survived a considerable time. Good times, I tell you.

Brawls

Kurald Galain
2008-02-29, 03:58 AM
Well...you can't have your cake and eat it too. Or so they say. :smallbiggrin:

No, but in COC you can have your cake and get eaten by it too...

Kami2awa
2008-02-29, 12:51 PM
I believe you will find the Amazon link I listed has the Cthulhu d20 for $30 - hardly a need to get a mortgage. :smalltongue:

However, don't get it - it's crap. Chaosium is much better.

Though it depends on your preference, IMO d20 isn't the best system for Call of Cthulhu. However, the d20 book has a lot of nice background material and artwork and it's a really good source of ideas for the game regardless of the system.

The usual system is BRP (Basic RolePlaying) from Chaosium. Its a percentage-based skill system with fairly realistic rules (e.g. if you get in a gunfight there's a high chance you DIE, and you don't come back*). Central to the game is the Sanity system; everyone starts with between 15-90 sanity points which are lost whenever you experience anything supernatural or horrifying, or when you learn and use occult knowledge; with different effects as your sanity drops.

Characters are ordinary humans; most games are detective stories with the characters trying to solve a mystery with supernatural elements. No-one starts with supernatural abilities but you can learn them in game, particularly from mystical books. However, all magic in the game is 'black magic'; it damages the caster (usually costing sanity or characteristic loss) and its effects are mainly summoning and commanding, or protecting against, specific monsters. The game is heavily based around RP; combat is, as mentioned earlier, pretty lethal for PCs and usually reserved for a last resort.

*OK, you can come back, but you end up pretty screwed over and probably turned into something inhuman.

tahu88810
2008-02-29, 01:15 PM
-snip-
*OK, you can come back, but you end up pretty screwed over and probably turned into something inhuman.

Do you mind going into a bit more detail on that? :smallsmile:

Project_Mayhem
2008-02-29, 01:21 PM
Actually, as written the ressurect spell works fine.

It's just far more interesting to go all Herbert West and have abominations against Nature.

Telok
2008-03-01, 11:02 AM
Herbert West never came back from death, although the fate he suffered (ultimately unmentioned) may easily have been worse than death.

The normal* method of resurrection in CoC is the spell by the same name. The first sentence in the spell description (4th ed. Chaosium CoC) notes that the name of the spell is rather misleading. This spell is in fact a method of reducing a corpse to a fine dust and then mystically recreating the individual from that dust with a magical Latin chant. Using the spell costs SAN, having the spell used on you costs lots of SAN.

There are a few dangers. The first and foremost is the sorcerer not collecting all of the dust. If even a few grains are missing the resulting entity is "onlie the liveliest of awfullness". This thing cannot die from old age, starvation, or thirst. However after a century or so at the bottom of a pit it will be desperate or crazed enough to eat a flashlight, which will kill it. The least glimpse of this thing will cost at least 1/1d6 SAN.

The other primary danger is that anyone speaking the chant backwards (words in reversed order) will cause the victim to revert to dust. This naturally costs SAN for everyone involved.

In CoC it's generally not worth trying to bring people back from the dead. That way lies madness, and generally more death. Just find the next person on your character's family tree and use them for your new character. It's better for everyone that way.

*The use of the word "normal" in this context involves taking it with a rather large grain of salt. This salt grain should mass at least six kilograms and be taken as a suppository.

Project_Mayhem
2008-03-01, 04:24 PM
Herbert West never came back from death, although the fate he suffered (ultimately unmentioned) may easily have been worse than death.

Of course. However, I was refering to his attempts to bring back the dead , not his ultimate fate.

tahu88810
2008-03-01, 05:50 PM
AH! So they come back as someone like the guy from "The Outsider" then, if they don't gather all the dust? Alright, I understand that :)

Project_Mayhem
2008-03-01, 07:52 PM
AH! So they come back as someone like the guy from "The Outsider" then, if they don't gather all the dust? Alright, I understand that :)

ooooh, that story was awesome. I'm reading a collection of Lovecraft now :smallbiggrin:

My favorite American author

Telok
2008-03-02, 05:10 AM
The one you want is "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward." That's the one that the spell is taken from.

It is also a near perfect example of how a single player CoC scenario would ideally play out.

allonym
2008-03-02, 07:46 PM
Call of the Cthulhu doesn't have a magic system. It has an extended suicide plan instead.

Player: I try to summon a dimensional shambler
GM: Ok (rolls) you fail. Lose 6 SAN
Player: Ok, I try again
GM: (rolls) you succed. Lose 10 SAN
Player: Right, finally. What happens.
GM: You see the Shambler (rolls) Lose 20 SAN. Oh, your now a gibbering wreck.

Slightly true story.

Well, all summon/bind spells cost d3 san, and the shambler costs 0/1d10...so it's not that bad. ;)


I love Call of Cthulhu. I ran a short campaign last autumn, set in a fictional and remote scottish village; the players started out investigating a zeppelin crash and wandering around the village and outlying moors; they ended up in an underground cave somewhere underneath north america, confronting a Great Old One. To save them, one player started worshipping it and was convincing enough that it sort-of worked. Another player, who had lost 16 san from seeing the thing, accused her of being a cultist. Once they got out and sealed the entrance...the party split in half and chased itself.

The accusing, hostile part, led by the indefinately-insane character, went and told their best friend in town...head of an entirely secret cult of Cthulhu...



I own lots of the sourcebooks, and I can recommend the game...though there are some sourcebooks and campaigns to avoid.