The "Rich Tries to Prove He CAN Draw" Thread

[The Giant]

OK, so, ever since I began the Order of the Stick, I have been frequently criticized for my lack of artistic skill. And the criticism is invalid, largely because most of the people making it really mean to criticize my rendering ability, which is only part of overall artistic competence. But I digress already. The point is, people assume that I wouldn't use stick figures unless I had no choice, because dude, stick figures are crap.

Well, I was cleaning up my hard drive today and I found some old drawings from 2002 that I made as part of my first 3rd Edition campaign. These were included on handouts that I gave to the players detailing each playable race. (Side note: This was the same campaign that I would use stick-figure monsters on paper stand-ups for the miniatures during the combats, making it the direct ancestor of the OOTS comic.) I've decided to make a feeble (and likely in vain) attempt to dispel the cloud of "can't draw" from my good name.

Mind you, I'm not holding these up as masterpieces. Most of them are a bit cartoony for some tastes, and I screw up the anatomy of the foot pretty bad on the elf picture. (I wisely chose to hide the ankles of most of the other figures!) I just wanted to share them. In a perfect world, I would have the time to create a second webcomic drawn in this style, but it would take me over a month for each page, so it's not ever going to happen. Also, I'm woefully out of practice now, having drawn almost exclusively on the computer for five years.

A pair of halfling thieves:
http://www.GiantITP.com/resources/RichHalflings.gif

Two decadent high elves:
http://www.GiantITP.com/resources/RichElves.gif

A plague-ridden dwarf sorcerer:
http://www.GiantITP.com/resources/RichBlightDwarf.gif

One very angry mountain dwarf fighter:
http://www.GiantITP.com/resources/RichDwarf.gif

A contemplative goblin wizard:
http://www.GiantITP.com/resources/RichGoblinWizard.gif

Your average adventuring cleric (with elegant mustache):
http://www.GiantITP.com/resources/RichCleric.gif

I may post more later, if I feel like it.

EDIT: In the process of loading these onto the server, I found a few others I had posted online before:
http://www.GiantITP.com/resources/FifteenAndSix.gif

http://www.GiantITP.com/resources/Genasi.gif

[Shas aia Toriia]

True, those may be a tad cartoony for some, but its far better then I could ever draw. :smallfrown:
The style is very distinctive though, and I think it looks great.:smallsmile:

Still, NEEDS MOAR ELVES!! :smalltongue:

[TheCountAlucard]

Cool drawings, Giant. Pretty awesome.

To be honest, I like cartoony.

There are ALWAYS going to be people who criticize you for your artwork, man. It's just something that happens. Even if you spent hours drawing each panel perfectly, people would still find something that needs "improvement."

[Undertaker798]

I'll give it 5 out of 5 in The Undertaker 5-Star Approval™. Of course in the real-world it means squat. But it's nice to have your own rating. :smalltongue: I think the "Cartoony"-ness gives the pictures a kind of charm.

[Szilard]

Wow, now I know I have to learn to draw, it would be awesome and fun to make drawings that cool looking.

[SurlySeraph]

Wow. They're cartoony, yes, but still far better than anything I've ever tried. Good drawing.

[Shades of Gray]

Awesomely amazing!

A guy like you could even make stick figures look amazingly good.:smallwink:

[Almighty Salmon]

Wow, those are great Giant! :smallbiggrin: Especially the first one

[mockingbyrd7]

That's pretty impressive! I always knew you could draw, but I'd never seen any of your non-stick figure work. I particularly like the female high elf and the goblin wizard.

There is one thing that I'd kill to see though: could you draw the OotS characters in this style? I would love to see how you picture them as non-stick figures.

[BisectedBrioche]

Your style makes me think of the Timesplitters series. Realistic but still sort of cartoonish.

Also, I agree with Mockingbyrd, it would be interesting to see how you'd do the OotS in a "realistic" style.

[Bayar]

the 2 halflings remind me of Lord of the rings, the Elves remind me of Blood elves (the ones in Warcraft 3 not world of warcraft). And the mountain dwarf looks like he could kick anyone's ass.

[Vectner]

I never doubted you

[Raistlin1040]

That's pretty impressive! I always knew you could draw, but I'd never seen any of your non-stick figure work. I particularly like the female high elf and the goblin wizard.

There is one thing that I'd kill to see though: could you draw the OotS characters in this style? I would love to see how you picture them as non-stick figures.

He has. Remember the comic with Nale and Thog as realistic?

Anyway, the cartoon style is nice, if not really my thing. However, the cleric is something I could picture in the PHB. It's fantastic.

[The Giant]

However, the cleric is something I could picture in the PHB. It's fantastic.

Thanks. The cleric was done for a different purpose (a PC illustration), so it has a deliberately different style.

[Zarah]

I have to admit that I quite like your style. To me, the cartoonish look makes them feel much more like they belong in a fantasy realm. I especially love the dwarf sorcerer. :smallbiggrin:

I'd definitely like to see more.

[Raistlin1040]

Yeah, I figured as such. It would fit in a WotC book, it's that good. Makes me wish I could draw.

[Hoplite]

I like the style. You certainly have talent, but I knew that already. Drawing stick figures is easy and doesn't require any talent at all. Drawing good stick figure with the amount of perfection you have attained with Oots isn't easy and does require a huge amount of talent.

[Green-Shirt Q]

I love the art. That's great.

P.S: Rich, I don't know if you are reading this, but I need to know. I sent you a PM and You never replyed. Did you get the message?

[Lyinginbedmon]

The golem is my immediate favourite. These should, if anything, reverse your "can't draw" reputation

[Szilard]

I like the golem, even though I don't know what it is.

[Yeril]

I love the Halfling Rogues :smalleek: :smallbiggrin:

[Dallas-Dakota]

You are the Rembrandt van Rijn of stick figure artists!
I <3 You, the Giant

They're pretty cool, I always thought you could draw pretty well.

I can draw pretty good in real life(a.k.a. non-stick figure) but it takes loooades of time, which I don't have, not that anybody cares.

Anyway, good work Rich!

Now for some more immature but still true sentences :
You rock! You are L33d! Dude, you are totally awesome!

Translation : You're cool. You are way better then anybody I know at drawing. You are cool.

[TheCountAlucard]

I like the golem, even though I don't know what it is.

Looks more like a Shield Guardian to me...

[Szilard]

I was thinking that, but I'm not sure, especially with the brain thing being put in.

[The Giant]

I was thinking that, but I'm not sure, especially with the brain thing being put in.

It's a Rune Guardian, basically a Shield Guardian on magical steroids, from Monster Manuals II (I think). In this case, a Rune Guardian that has been Awakened via a magical procedure (hence the brain).

[Grrw]

I think a large part of the popularity of OOTS is the fact they are stick men. The dialoge and storytelling are awesome, and the stick men describe the action without gettign bogged down with superdetailed artistry, which is often the hallmark of a poor story.

The Giant rocks!

[Szilard]

It's a Rune Guardian, basically a Shield Guardian on magical steroids, from Monster Manuals II (I think). In this case, a Rune Guardian that has been Awakened via a magical procedure (hence the brain).

Thanks, makes some sense now.

[FoE]

I quite like the plague-ridden dwarf. He's neat.

These remind me of illustrations that accompanied games like Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire and Ogre Battle.

http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof/BoF_builder.jpg

[Dallas-Dakota]

I really like the plague ridden dwarf:smallsmile:

And why is the male high elf giving the evil eye?

[Pikonn]

Awesome Dwarves.

[The Giant]

And why is the male high elf giving the evil eye?

Because in that setting, the high elves were arrogant magically-rich aristocrats with nothing but disdain for races that lived shorter lives. I attempted to convey that with the illustration.

[Goats_o_Mjolnir]

Its good to know Im not the only one who plays goblin spellcasters:smallbiggrin:, makes me want to go grab me sketchbook, awesome style Giant

[kpenguin]

I assume you drew the sketches in OotS#339 yourself then?

[Dallas-Dakota]

Because in that setting, the high elves were arrogant magically-rich aristocrats with nothing but disdain for races that lived shorter lives. I attempted to convey that with the illustration.

Ahh ok, that makes it clear then.
If I were to describe the personalities from the picture in a few words I would say : Snotty, stuck-up and arrogant. So job well done:smallsmile:

[The Giant]

I assume you drew the sketches in OotS#339 yourself then?

Yes, that is correct.

[Shadowcaller]

My guess is that every member in this forum eventually is going to post in this thread. (just a guess)

And, art in a webcomic is not really important I like stickfigures in this comic more then other more realistic draw characters in other webcomics.
Why? Well I have serval reasons: first i think that the plot is twice more important then the art, i read books not mangas.
Secondly: the humor, I think the order of the stick is one of the funniest web-comics I have ever read.
Thirdly: Fast updates, most webcomic updates maybe once-twice a week witch make the comic lose temp (If the comic have some kind of plot of course).
I could mention serval other reasons but I will keep it short for now.

Really great comic, this is the only comic that have made me join a forum, ever.
(Yeah you could call me a "lurker")

Edit: sorry for some typos, english is not my main language

[Eita]

If people think you can't draw, they've never used vector-based programs.

[The Giant]

And, art in a webcomic is not really important I like stickfigures in this comic more then other more realistic draw characters in toher webcomics.

Thanks for the kind words, but my point wasn't to apologize for The Order of the Stick or its art style. It's exactly the way it should be, in my opinion. I didn't NEED to use stick figures, I chose to do so, for many reasons.

My only point was to share some non-OOTS drawings, partly because I thought it might be nice that next time someone says that I can't draw, I have a single link I can give them to shut them up.

[Lyinginbedmon]

The alternative to that thought, Eita, being that they have and are way superior in skill with them to Rich.

So naturally they must never have touched them :smallsmile:

Also, great to see you delving into the forums, Mr Giant. Especially here, you're an inspiration, right back to the days of DnDOG

[Dallas-Dakota]

You know, I'm very curious of what you think about OOTS-based (fan) comics such as Anti-Heroes and Failing Saves.(if you have time to read them ofcourse)



Also, great to see you delving into the forums, Mr Giant. Especially here, you're an inspiration, right back to the days of DnDOG
Agreed.

[Eita]

The alternative to that thought, Eita, being that I have and are way superior in skill with them to Rich.

Wait... What? Sorry. Really tired. That sentence didn't make any sense at all to me.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Wait... What? Sorry. Really tired. That sentence didn't make any sense at all to me.

Firstly, an embarassing typo: I put "I" instead of "they" :smallredface:

Secondly, my meaning was that either they were criticising him because they had never touched a vector art program, or because they were actually way better vector artists than he is. Since the latter is impossible, they must have never touched a vector art program.

[Guyinthestreet]

Actually, I'll like to ask Mr Richard about improving foreshortening (limbs). Currently I can't get that right unless I use references.

[Almighty Salmon]

You know, I'm very curious of what you think about OOTS-based (fan) comics such as Anti-Heroes and Failing Saves.(if you have time to read them ofcourse)

If Rich does want to read Failing Saves, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72840) is the link.

*Bows before The Giant's awesomeness and scuttles off*

[Eita]

Firstly, an embarassing typo: I put "I" instead of "they" :smallredface:

Secondly, my meaning was that either they were criticising him because they had never touched a vector art program, or because they were actually way better vector artists than he is. Since the latter is impossible, they must have never touched a vector art program.

Ah. That makes sense now. Follows the same logic that I used while I was explaining why FDR couldn't possibly have known about the attack on Pearl Harbor.

[Fin]

WooHoo, I share the same artistic sticking point as the Giant!

I can't draw feet, probably never will be able to. Though I do find bare feet easier to draw than those with shoes/boots on, go figure?!?

[Emperor Ing]

I have massive trouble with hair, which is why I love drawing madness style. Baldness is totally acceptible. :smallsmile:

And those that say OOTS style takes no skill have obviously never tried it before. Its a ton trickier than it looks. :smallannoyed:

[BisectedBrioche]

I'm terrible at faces, (apart from eyes and hairlines). Especially chins and noses. Not that I'm much of an artist in the fist place.

[The Giant]

You know, I'm very curious of what you think about OOTS-based (fan) comics such as Anti-Heroes and Failing Saves.(if you have time to read them ofcourse)

I've been deliberately avoiding reading them, for the same reason I don't read speculation about the comic's plot. However, I have been talking with the moderators about formulating a statement about what is and isn't OK to post here, vis a vis fan webcomics. I'm hoping to have some sort of official comment in a week or so.


Actually, I'll like to ask Mr Richard about improving foreshortening (limbs). Currently I can't get that right unless I use references.

Neither can I. My solution? Use references. Foreshortening is a bitch, so don't stress that you haven't mastered it. Many professional comic artists can't manage it, either. Get a filing cabinet and fill it with every magazine clipping you can get your hands on, then look through and find one when you need it. Mind you, I didn't do that on a lot of those images, which is WHY the ankles are screwed up. But if I were drawing professionally, I just would use references.

Alternately, you can just rearrange your compositions to avoid foreshortening altogether, sort of like how I just hid the ankles on some of those pictures.

[Green-Shirt Q]

...However, I have been talking with the moderators about formulating a statement about what is and isn't OK to post here, vis a vis fan webcomics. I'm hoping to have some sort of official comment in a week or so.
...

Oh dear. That doesn't sound good for those of use who make webcomics with your art stlye.

Well, do what you have to do. It probably won't be bad.

[Phase]

I really like the plagued dwarf sorcerer. It must be one bad plague to make him lose his beard!

[The Giant]

Oh dear. That doesn't sound good for those of use who make webcomics with your art stlye.

Well, do what you have to do. It probably won't be bad.

It will likely impact mostly only those wishing to use official OOTS characters (or places) in their comic, and possibly where on the board their comics are located.

[FoE]

That's good, because none of the fancomics actually use your characters. My R-rated Durkon/Belkar slash fiction, on the other hand ... :smalltongue:

[Weiser_Cain]

Thanks for the kind words, but my point wasn't to apologize for The Order of the Stick or its art style. It's exactly the way it should be, in my opinion. I didn't NEED to use stick figures, I chose to do so, for many reasons.

My only point was to share some non-OOTS drawings, partly because I thought it might be nice that next time someone says that I can't draw, I have a single link I can give them to shut them up.
If I complain that you never give me money for nothing will you send me some?

I hate dwarves but that's the nicest (baddest?) drawing you put up in my opinion. Will you draw all the OoTS characters this way once the strip ends? It'd be interesting to see.

[Lyinginbedmon]

It will likely impact mostly only those wishing to use official OOTS characters (or places) in their comic, and possibly where on the board their comics are located.

Phew, that had me worried for a moment there...

[kpenguin]

It will likely impact mostly only those wishing to use official OOTS characters (or places) in their comic, and possibly where on the board their comics are located.

Actually, I don't think any of the fan comics on these boards borrow your characters, just your art style.

[Green-Shirt Q]

Actually, I don't think any of the fan comics on these boards borrow your characters, just your art style.

Actually, Whitefeather borrowed Elan (Or at least hinted at it), Order of the Feak mentioned Elan, Blast Dragons mentioned Belkar, and Redemtion had Shojo and was set in Azure City.

It dosen't matter though, since ALL of those comics are now dead.

[Flickerdart]

I do say, good sir, if you are this skilled with the arts, why did you make a comic composed entirely of sticks and inspire a plethora of less-than-stellar similar-styled comics?

[Crimmy]

You know, i think you are simply Uber on your drawings.

For me it's a bitch to draw feet and hands.

Have any tip on that?


It will likely impact mostly only those wishing to use official OOTS characters (or places) in their comic, and possibly where on the board their comics are located.

And i was thinking of making an OotS style webcomic with impact on the history of OotS...
Well, I'll have to think another history.

[Flouncy]

Rich's image of Baker's Gleaner NPC class alerted me to the fact that Rich could indeed draw. The proportions might be a bit whack in places but the semi realistic style is akin to my own illustrative sensibilities. Finding this image abolished my own assumption that stick figures are a reflective of minimal artistic ability.

I see a lot of people dumbing on their own abilities, the only way to improve is through practice and observation. As a solution has anyone every tossed around the idea of a weekly/daily sketch group. A topic would be set for each week in which participants would do a drawing of any style relating to that topic and posting it for all to see. Yeah it would be in the same vain as the avatar challenges but brooder. The participants could choose how they approach the topic instead of being restricted by a certain style.

[Lyinginbedmon]

I do say, good sir, if you are this skilled with the arts, why did you make a comic composed entirely of sticks and inspire a plethora of less-than-stellar similar-styled comics?

Well, aren't we a ray of sunshine. Seriously though, Rich already explained why he uses his trademark Burlewan stick figures

[Flickerdart]

Well, aren't we a ray of sunshine. Seriously though, Rich already explained why he uses his trademark Burlewan stick figures

Not in this thread, he hasn't, and I am unfortunately not omniscient yet. So if anyone would step down from their +1 High Horse of Steed-dom and tell me, I would be oh-so-grateful. (The part where he says it would take him a month per comic doesn't count. He most likely means the long-for OotS style, while this level of art is often 3 or 4 panel. Obviously, adjustments could be made.)

As for my slight bitterness towards the fan comics...I'm a firm believer in the fact that the web-comic "market" is saturated as is, and very desperate for actually good art. Just because several webcomics (namely OotS, Cyanide and Happiness and XKCD) have gotten by with various degrees of minimalist styles, it doesn't mean hordes should charge to settle for that level. Same goes for sprite comics, only to a much bigger degree.

[memnarch]

They all looked fine to me. A bit like MtG cards before they are transfered to plates for inking and printing.


Burlewan, what's that mean?

[BRC]

Not in this thread, he hasn't, and I am unfortunately not omniscient yet. So if anyone would step down from their +1 High Horse of Steed-dom and tell me, I would be oh-so-grateful. (The part where he says it would take him a month per comic doesn't count. He most likely means the long-for OotS style, while this level of art is often 3 or 4 panel. Obviously, adjustments could be made.)

As for my slight bitterness towards the fan comics...I'm a firm believer in the fact that the web-comic "market" is saturated as is, and very desperate for actually good art. Just because several webcomics (namely OotS, Cyanide and Happiness and XKCD) have gotten by with various degrees of minimalist styles, it doesn't mean hordes should charge to settle for that level. Same goes for sprite comics, only to a much bigger degree.
From the FAQ (it's great, you should read it!)

Q: How come your art sucks so much? Can.t you draw?


A: Grumble. Let.s be clear: I choose to draw stick figures because I think they bring the right air of humor to the strip, and because they create a unique style. People often criticize the OOTS style under the assumption that I am incapable of doing .better.. I would argue that there is no .better. or .worse. involved. I use stick figures because the stick figure style is what is right for the comic. If I were doing a serious fantasy epic, I would draw more realistic pictures. Top
Boom, Answered.


Also, according to you, the internet is full and the presence of low-quality comics somehow means that High-quality comics won't show up or become popular?

[batsofchaos]

I could already tell you could draw from the comic; your use of color and contrast, as well as frame composition, is impeccable. Saying you are a hack artist is a claim that can be made only by the inattentive.

I dig these drawings, though. The colored pencils have a soft, ephemeral quality that fits very nicely with the theme. I especially like the plague-infected dwarf. You've captured the perfect amount of frailty and formidableness.

Flickerdart: He did indeed explain why he uses stick figures in this thread. His fourth or fifth post, I believe.

[Flickerdart]

Commie, thanks for that.
As for my comment regarding the general poor quality of comics...it's got nothing to do with the good ones. It's people settling for mediocrity and unwilling to improve that grinds my gears. There isn't a reason that another comic unto the likes of PA or CAD can't rise up from obscurity aside from that fact.

BatsOfChaos, he does not say that in the specified posts. I checked.

[batsofchaos]

I guess he didn't, he just said "for various reasons," which doesn't explain anything other than he does indeed have a reason.

[The Giant]

I do say, good sir, if you are this skilled with the arts, why did you make a comic composed entirely of sticks and inspire a plethora of less-than-stellar similar-styled comics?

Because stick figures were the best choice for this comic. If I were doing a dramatic fantasy epic, I would have tried to draw it (and probably given up in frustration after I got only ten pages done a year). Comedy benefits from more minimalist design, and this is a style I have doodled in for years. I could have invented an entirely new minimalist style, or used the one I already knew. I chose the latter.

As far as what other people are inspired to do, that's pretty much their business. I'm not responsible for anyone else's webcomic, nor will I limit myself based on what others might choose to do with their time.

[Bitzeralisis]

It's a pity that you don't read others' webcomics. I find comparing others' art to my own as a great way of improving my skills.

[The Giant]

The good stuff will always rise to the surface, no matter how much mediocre stuff there is. There is no such thing as market saturation on the internet, only personal saturation. An individual might already have a full plate of webcomics, but there's always another person around the corner. The artist just needs to figure out how to connect to them. My comic didn't succeed because of its art or its writing; it succeeded because I served a niche that was not (at the time) reading webcomics: the hardcore D&D player. If an artist isn't willing to find new ways to attract an audience to their work, well, then they're also unwilling to improve themselves. A successful webcomic is as much marketing and salesmanship as art skill. Too many artists like to think of themselves as above such things and that their comic is pure and unsullied by any attempt to fulfill an audience's expectations. Such artists usually work at Kinko's during the day.

When I started OOTS in 2003, the prevailing wisdom for webcomic success was, "Start in 1997." It didn't stop me from becoming successful. Look at a comic like Lackadaisy; it has gorgeous art, good writing, and has just won four WCCA awards. And it's about two years old. Blaming people who are just having their own fun making their own fan comics for the lack of success of someone else's supposed masterpiece is nothing but sour grapes.

[Scatman]

Mister Burlew, those drawings are spectacular. I tend to get character ideas from drawings, based on their looks, and what might be their personality influenced by the way they look. If you don't mind, I'd like to base some characters off of these drawings.

[Nameless]

Awefrackingsom! :biggrin:

[SoD]

My first thought when I saw this thread: how on earth did some create this thread and have it reach 3 pages without being locked?! If people care about his drawing skills (which I beleive are awesome) maybe creating a thread challenging him about it isn't the best idea.

Second thought: Oh. The Giant did it...that explains why it wasn't locked...

By the way, those picture are brilliant, giant. I especially liked the plaguey dwarf sorcerer, and the halfling duo.


snip

It dosen't matter though, since ALL of those comics are now dead.

Whitefeather is dead? Has there been an official statement, or is this just speculation due to really slow updates?

[Felixaar]

Awesomely done, Giant. I dont see any problem with the feet (you should see me drawing hands. seriously, all the rest of the picture looks fine (nothing to rival yours but still) but the hands look like they were surgically attatched from a deformed gnome. (or a healthy human, in the case that I am drawing a deformed gnome)), and I love the halfling theives.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Whitefeather is dead? Has there been an official statement, or is this just speculation due to really slow updates?

Unfortunately there is, I think it's on the last page

[Hoplite]

I am thinking of doing a webcomic, but it would be interesting to see what you think of these comics on your site.

[MadHatter]

IMO presentation isn't as important as long as the filling tastes delicious(in this case how it's drawn isn't as important compared to the storyline and plot, but the genius thing here is that OoTS probably wouldn't have been such a smash hit if it wasn't drawn like this, and I for one love it.).

[Lyinginbedmon]

I am thinking of doing a webcomic, but it would be interesting to see what you think of these comics on your site.

I believe he already said that he purposefully avoids reading them.

Although...Remember (http://www.Remembercomic.co.uk) isn't on this site :smallwink:

[Surfing HalfOrc]

It's a Rune Guardian, basically a Shield Guardian on magical steroids, from Monster Manuals II (I think). In this case, a Rune Guardian that has been Awakened via a magical procedure (hence the brain).

Rune Guardian? I would have guessed Warforged... :wink: :tongue:

I read "Five Foot Step," so I knew you could draw in a "conventional" sense.
Have you ever drawn the characters from OotS in the conventional style? Besides Nale and Thog?

[Flickerdart]

Hehe, did I come across as being very sour? Didn't mean to. I'm not blaming you for the fancomics, Rich. if anything, they're a sign of your success.

Also, brown sketch paper FTW. I need to get me a coloured sketchbook...either a gray or a brown, like that. Those are all pencil, right? Some of them look a bit pastel- or conte-ish.

[Sampi]

You have proven that you can, in fact, draw.

The ones I like best? The goblin wizard and the rune guardian. Why? Because of the expression in them. All of the others seem a bit detached, but these two actually look as if there's a world that they belong in.

Sure, the elves and the halflings are good stand-alone pieces, and the dwarves are interesting designs, but those two are, in my opinion, above the rest in attaching the viewer.

In short: yes, you can draw.

[Nameless]

I have to say that my favorite one is the Rune Guardian and the Dwarf one.
I think I like metal... Metal melts when it's burned... I like to melt stuff... It's shiny!

[NerfTW]

And, art in a webcomic is not really important

I'm going to hijack this quote, although there are many like it in this thread.

This statement simply isn't true. Similarly, the reverse, that good writing in a webcomic is not really important is also ridiculous.

Webcomic parts do not exist alone. All parts of a web comic need to work together to be "good". Horrible art that looks like crap is going to detract from even the best script. Romeo and Juliet with hobo clowns is not going to be enjoyable.

Writing also needs to be there. You can draw wonderful scenes of beauty, but if there's no plot, nobody will want to come back. I remember an X-men comic from the 90's where the writer was happy that he put in the script "Draw a fourteen page fight scene between Psylocke and Sabertooth.". The issue was a collosal waste of money for a reader, with only three pages of dialouge.

To use cooking as an example, if I order Peking Duck and recieve a pile of what looks like dirt, I don't care if it tastes just like Peking Duck. The presentation is a part of the dish. Conversely, if I order Peking Duck and it tastes like dirt, I'm not going to say "Well, the presentation was spot on". I want it to look and taste like Peking Duck.

Rich's success isn't that he used stick figures. It's that he used an art style that helped tell the story. They convey the appropriate amount of humor inherent in the strip. Further, they allow for the more epic scenes that would take a week to draw in realistic style.


Also, to comment on the "glut" of copy cat comics, I don't see the issue. I might say "ugh, be more original", but it's easy to tell at a glance what comics are good and what comics are just pointless doodles. Unless you're using some massive comic database to find them, most copy cat comics never show up on anyone's radar. And it's clear to anyone that OoTS (or any good comic in that style) is a quality webcomic, simply because of the care taken in making sure that the artwork is consistent. Sure, they're copy and pasted vector art, but the fact that it's obviously not MSPaint seperates him from those who have no art training whatsoever.

Although in closing, I'd have to say to anyone thinking of copying ANY author's work, for fan comics or just the style, don't do it. You're shooting yourself in the foot before you begin. If your comic takes off, and you're using, say, Final Fantasy sprites, you've just killed any ability to trademark your work. Or sell it for that matter. If you're using characters who openly reference Everquest, you can also never sell the comic. If you just copy a distinct style, than any future readers are going to immediently think "rip off" before even looking at the work.

Cultivate your own style, and while you're at it, read a few books on art theory or get someone artistically minded to do your strip.

[Rayzin]

To use cooking as an example, if I order Peking Duck and recieve a pile of what looks like dirt, I don't care if it tastes just like Peking Duck. The presentation is a part of the dish. Conversely, if I order Peking Duck and it tastes like dirt, I'm not going to say "Well, the presentation was spot on". I want it to look and taste like Peking Duck.

Thats not true for food, in a popular Beijing restaurant i ordered Peking duck it looked good, and it tasted good. In the rural areas in a home owned store maybe 1/20th the size of a large restaurant the Peking duck looked like complete crap but tasted better than the fancy one.

I only disagree with the food part.

[Zombie pixe]

the giant CAN draw *cheasey grin*

[Threeshades]

Nice drawings. The cartoony ones seem a bit top-heavy to me. maybe a more slender neck would help out a lot.

And on the chance this has been asked before: Will you draw the OotS in not-stickfigure style some time and show it here? (maybe some other characters from the comic too)

[Nameless]

Nice drawings. The cartoony ones seem a bit top-heavy to me. maybe a more slender neck would help out a lot.

And on the chance this has been asked before: Will you draw the OotS in not-stickfigure style some time and show it here? (maybe some other characters from the comic too)

That would be the single most awesome thing since canned bread... And you know how much I love canned bread! :smalleek:

[Shadowcaller]

I'm going to hijack this quote, although there are many like it in this thread.

This statement simply isn't true. Similarly, the reverse, that good writing in a webcomic is not really important is also ridiculous.

Webcomic parts do not exist alone. All parts of a web comic need to work together to be "good". Horrible art that looks like crap is going to detract from even the best script. Romeo and Juliet with hobo clowns is not going to be enjoyable.

Writing also needs to be there. You can draw wonderful scenes of beauty, but if there's no plot, nobody will want to come back. I remember an X-men comic from the 90's where the writer was happy that he put in the script "Draw a fourteen page fight scene between Psylocke and Sabertooth.". The issue was a collosal waste of money for a reader, with only three pages of dialouge.

To use cooking as an example, if I order Peking Duck and recieve a pile of what looks like dirt, I don't care if it tastes just like Peking Duck. The presentation is a part of the dish. Conversely, if I order Peking Duck and it tastes like dirt, I'm not going to say "Well, the presentation was spot on". I want it to look and taste like Peking Duck.

Rich's success isn't that he used stick figures. It's that he used an art style that helped tell the story. They convey the appropriate amount of humor inherent in the strip. Further, they allow for the more epic scenes that would take a week to draw in realistic style.


Also, to comment on the "glut" of copy cat comics, I don't see the issue. I might say "ugh, be more original", but it's easy to tell at a glance what comics are good and what comics are just pointless doodles. Unless you're using some massive comic database to find them, most copy cat comics never show up on anyone's radar. And it's clear to anyone that OoTS (or any good comic in that style) is a quality webcomic, simply because of the care taken in making sure that the artwork is consistent. Sure, they're copy and pasted vector art, but the fact that it's obviously not MSPaint seperates him from those who have no art training whatsoever.

Although in closing, I'd have to say to anyone thinking of copying ANY author's work, for fan comics or just the style, don't do it. You're shooting yourself in the foot before you begin. If your comic takes off, and you're using, say, Final Fantasy sprites, you've just killed any ability to trademark your work. Or sell it for that matter. If you're using characters who openly reference Everquest, you can also never sell the comic. If you just copy a distinct style, than any future readers are going to immediently think "rip off" before even looking at the work.

Cultivate your own style, and while you're at it, read a few books on art theory or get someone artistically minded to do your strip.

Of course art is important, I may have exaggerate a bit there but I think that the humor and the plot is more important then the art.
Dont get me wrong here, art is in fact the basic in creating a webcomic, you are not writing a book here.
The creator need to have some experience in art before you can start a webcomic.
But comics that updates once per moth lose the "flow" in the plot (in my opinion) but can have other advantages.
The Giant have found a good art-type for this kind of humor comic, other more serious comics benefits from more detailed art.

[banjo1985]

Now those are very very good drawings. I guess it won't prove to everyone that you can draw, but we know the truth. :smallbiggrin:

Also another artist heaving a big sigh of relief that our plethora of other webcomics aren't going to be thrown off the boards!

[Vulion]

Pretty damn good. I'd love to see other people try to say you can't draw now, I love how you use color and I especially love the style, cartoony yes, but who ever said that would be a bad thing?!

I wish I could color like you.:smallfrown:

Kudos to you, Giant, kudos to you.

[Fay Graydon]

I like the Halflings, they look cool!
I would love to see some of your more recent work if you have any?:smallbiggrin:

[Guyinthestreet]

I'm going to hijack this quote, although there are many like it in this thread.

This statement simply isn't true. Similarly, the reverse, that good writing in a webcomic is not really important is also ridiculous.

Webcomic parts do not exist alone. All parts of a web comic need to work together to be "good". Horrible art that looks like crap is going to detract from even the best script. Romeo and Juliet with hobo clowns is not going to be enjoyable.

Writing also needs to be there. You can draw wonderful scenes of beauty, but if there's no plot, nobody will want to come back. I remember an X-men comic from the 90's where the writer was happy that he put in the script "Draw a fourteen page fight scene between Psylocke and Sabertooth.". The issue was a collosal waste of money for a reader, with only three pages of dialouge.

To use cooking as an example, if I order Peking Duck and recieve a pile of what looks like dirt, I don't care if it tastes just like Peking Duck. The presentation is a part of the dish. Conversely, if I order Peking Duck and it tastes like dirt, I'm not going to say "Well, the presentation was spot on". I want it to look and taste like Peking Duck.

Rich's success isn't that he used stick figures. It's that he used an art style that helped tell the story. They convey the appropriate amount of humor inherent in the strip. Further, they allow for the more epic scenes that would take a week to draw in realistic style.


Also, to comment on the "glut" of copy cat comics, I don't see the issue. I might say "ugh, be more original", but it's easy to tell at a glance what comics are good and what comics are just pointless doodles. Unless you're using some massive comic database to find them, most copy cat comics never show up on anyone's radar. And it's clear to anyone that OoTS (or any good comic in that style) is a quality webcomic, simply because of the care taken in making sure that the artwork is consistent. Sure, they're copy and pasted vector art, but the fact that it's obviously not MSPaint seperates him from those who have no art training whatsoever.

Although in closing, I'd have to say to anyone thinking of copying ANY author's work, for fan comics or just the style, don't do it. You're shooting yourself in the foot before you begin. If your comic takes off, and you're using, say, Final Fantasy sprites, you've just killed any ability to trademark your work. Or sell it for that matter. If you're using characters who openly reference Everquest, you can also never sell the comic. If you just copy a distinct style, than any future readers are going to immediently think "rip off" before even looking at the work.

Cultivate your own style, and while you're at it, read a few books on art theory or get someone artistically minded to do your strip.


I wish there were a rating system for posts. This one would be five starred.

[Shadowcaller]

I wish there were a rating system for posts. This one would be five starred.

Agree, had to back down there.

[Brickwall]

I've known Rich can draw for a while. Maybe it was something in the Extras part, or maybe it was this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/hq/polyffs1), but I've known. Anyone who didn't know wasn't being obsessed enough.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I wish there were a rating system for posts. This one would be five starred.

( It might be a good suggestion, maybe something like DnD og's (roleplaying) experience. (www.DnDonlinegames.com)

[FoE]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/hq/polyffs4

This is why you never map anything but the local jail, ruins at the edge of town, and the local bar (provided there's a suitable encounter there). :smalltongue:

[Lord Herman]

Wow, those are great! I particularly like the dwarves. They're very... dwarfy.

I've never doubted your artistic abilities, however. The level of expression you can put in a simple stick figure is amazing.

[Hacktor]

Very nice :D

I never doubted you could draw :P

[Zar Peter]

I've known Rich can draw for a while. Maybe it was something in the Extras part, or maybe it was this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/hq/polyffs1), but I've known. Anyone who didn't know wasn't being obsessed enough.

Actually I don't care if you can draw like Rembrand or like Picasso as long as the story and the drawing matches. And in OOTS it's perfect.

I never have seen the comic in Brickwalls link till now but there the comic style and the story is matching very good. You are an artist! A very good one.
Your scetches on page one are very good, too, I can imagine nearly every part of it in an official DnD book (ok, I don't care much if it's too comical, in my opinion comic style is just another drawing art style).

[Holammer]

So, the Richmeister can draw and it looks quite well too. But that's not the reason why I read The Order of the Stick. If I wanted fancy artwork and artwork only I'd stick to old Conan the Barbarian as drawn by John Buscema and never look elsewhere. I've probably said that before, but I say it again for good measure. Because I have always felt that OOTS was all about gags, dialogue and storytelling. Sure, I've come to appreciate the oh so subtle details of your stick figures. The recent Fox for the Fox News pun struck me as almost extravagant in its details compared with the usual more Spartan style.

Heck... When I read the "Miko dies" strip at work just before I finished my lunch break. I'll have you know it was quite embarrassing back in the kitchen when one of the waiters asked me if I had been crying because my eyes really welled up when I read the last panel. Next time someone criticizes you for your artwork. Put up the smuggest smirk you can muster and ask if them if they've ever made grown men cry. I'm sure few Comics manage to provoke such emotional responses.

That plague-ridden Dwarf Sorcerer got what he deserved meddling in the unnatural :smallamused:

[NEO|Phyte]

Rich can draw, not exactly new news.

The real question is; Does he take requests? :smallbiggrin:
pleasesayyespleasesayyespleasesayyespleasesayyespl easesayyespleasesayyespleasesayyespleasesayyes

[Karner]

It is amazing, how good can come certain souls draw... The real question is why is that I cant, no matter how hard I try...
BTW: Nice work with that angry dwarf :)

[Weiser_Cain]

It can be learned just like anything else, like all things some have an easy time starting out but no amount of natural talent will make up for practice.

[Karner]

It can be learned just like anything else, like all things some have an easy time starting out but no amount of natural talent will make up for practice.

Well... I'm doodling every minute of my college lessons... And I'm still not satisfied with that... Allways messed up something on the picture...
http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mozkomor2bb4.jpg

[Weiser_Cain]

I think if you're 'satisfied' you stop growing as an artist. So I try to aim for happy. I'm rarely satisfied with my work but always happy to be doing it.
http://home.comcast.net/~weiser_cain/Images/Violet.jpg

[lothofkalroth]

Awesome Drawings Giant, I love the Plague-ridden dwarf sorcerer! He's so angry looking, but cute, but diseased, but cute! Ahhh! swirling vortex of emotions! :smallsmile:

[Sensate]

Even though these drawings look extremely classy (just the style I like), I've grown fond of the OotS style and it's characters; using the style you displayed in this thread for drawing the same party wouldn't match the quality of the existing comic.
Funny thing is, when I first bumped into OotS, I didn't like it at all. It was too minimalistic, plain and I might had even resorted to using the word "ugly" to describe it. Now, I love every bit of it - the more you read, the more perfect it appears (trying to draw some OotS style avatars myself in Inkscape must have contributed a good deal too).

[Halna LeGavilk]

Why does EVERYONE draw better than I do? Why?

[Wreckingrocc]

Okay, don't get me wrong; the drawing are amazing!

....But.... A dwarven sorceror.... *Holds back urge to burst out laughing* They get a penalty to their casting stat! *Breaks out laughing*

[Lyinginbedmon]

I recall M!nion doing a guest comic (http://www.giantitp.com/Images/fanart/M!nion.jpg) to that effect

[Weiser_Cain]

Why does EVERYONE draw better than I do? Why?

Well I have zero social skills if that makes you feel better.

[Bayar]

Okay, don't get me wrong; the drawing are amazing!

....But.... A dwarven sorceror.... *Holds back urge to burst out laughing* They get a penalty to their casting stat! *Breaks out laughing*

Dwarven wizards are better. ANd if you want only a sorc dip for whatever reason...it is enough.

[Rayzin]

I think if you're 'satisfied' you stop growing as an artist. So I try to aim for happy. I'm rarely satisfied with my work but always happy to be doing it.
http://home.comcast.net/~weiser_cain/Images/Violet.jpg

You should do the hair differently and change it to also have some detail where the hair moves, other than that the eyes are to long.(if it was an elf ok but since its a human because of the ears)

[Weiser_Cain]

Don't forget the overlarge mouth, too narrow jaw, and the length of her face. I was just playing with stylization, I wasn't aiming for realism.

[hamishspence]

Halflings make me think of Zogonia-Mount Zogon. Not the same, but the style is certainly reminicent of those comics. They look good.

[hanzo66]

I like the drawings. Cartoonish and not completely anatomically accurate, but conveys the characters decently.

I like Rich's Stickwork. Though it is by no means the best drawn fantasy epic out there the Stick Figures are nonetheless more detailed than the average stick drawing (for example, an actual full torso rather than a single stick).

[Dr.Epic]

I can't see the artwork.:smallconfused:

[AmberVael]

I can't see the artwork.:smallconfused:

The links lead to the GitP site, and trying to load them directly states that an invalid page has been reached. Presumably since this thread is a couple years old by now, and the forum has changed since its creation, the pictures are no longer hosted on the site (or at least, not the in the same place), and thus the links are broken.

Also- thread necromancy.

[Marnath]

I can't see the artwork.:smallconfused:

I made a new thread for a good reason, dude....