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Gaiwecoor
2008-03-13, 11:15 AM
I'm looking at making a dual-wand weilding BBEG for an upcoming one-shot adventure. He'll have easy access to up to 10 wands at an instant's notice (either Arcane or Divine; he'll be a Warlock able to take 10 on his UMD). Now the question: What should spells should be in the wands? I have access to Core, C. Arcane, C. Adventurer and PHB2.

So - what wands should he have on his person? What order should he throw them against the PCs (3 or 4 12th level)? Or are the PCs high enough in level that 4th level spells and lower won't matter that much?

Thanks!

Saph
2008-03-13, 11:22 AM
4th-level spells can still mess up a 12th-level party - assuming you can get off enough of them. Look into spells with no save or that are still effective on a successful saving throw.

Greater Invisibility is a must, to start with.

Enervation is pretty nasty, and against only 3-4 PCs is quite effective as well.

Fireball is decent for long-range spamming. At CL 10 it has a range of 800 feet, so you can start taking pot shots at the PCs to soften them up before they have any possible way of seeing you.

Solid Fog is good, too, as it doesn't have a save.

I'm assuming you're using the Double Wand Wielder feat from Complete Arcane? That would let your BBEG fire two wands per round.

- Saph

Irreverent Fool
2008-03-13, 11:31 AM
A wand of animate dead so as soon as you manage to down a PC, you turn his body against his friends. :smallbiggrin:

Narthon the Bold
2008-03-13, 11:34 AM
You can't take 10 on a use magic device check to activate a wand because there is a penalty for failure. If you roll a 1, you can't use the wand for the rest of the day.

Mr. Friendly
2008-03-13, 11:38 AM
You can't take 10 on a use magic device check to activate a wand because there is a penalty for failure. If you roll a 1, you can't use the wand for the rest of the day.

Warlocks can - it is a specific ability they have.

valadil
2008-03-13, 11:50 AM
Are these wands that your BBEG created or bought? I ask because spells that scale up or have saves aren't really worth taking if you're buying the wand because the caster level will be minimal.

I'm just going to assume the BBEG created high level wands for this list.
Grease
Ray of Enfeeblement
Glitterdust
Scorching Ray
Invisibility
False Life
Stinking Cloud

Artanis
2008-03-13, 11:50 AM
Prestidigitation. Definitely Prestidigitation.


BBEG: *goes into his long-winded soliloquy describing just how awesomely powerful he is, then casts Prestidigitation a couple times"

Player: OMG! THE UTTERLY FEARLESS BARBARIAN JUST CRAPPED HIMSELF! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

BBEG: "Heh, noobs."

Telonius
2008-03-13, 11:58 AM
Ah, the Sorcelator build! Black Tentacles is an obvious one, as is Shout. Remember, deafness can cause spells with a Verbal component to fail, casters generally have terrible Fort saves, and nobody ever protects against Sonic. Stinking Cloud is another nasty one. Summon Monster, to get all the help you can.

EDIT: One note of caution here. If your bad guy is meant to die rather than escape, your players will have access to about 10 wands upon defeating him, so bear that in mind. If you want him to escape, Gaseous Form or Teleport should be available to him in some form.

Duke of URL
2008-03-13, 12:00 PM
Shivering Touch (bane of dragons) - PCs can't fight back if they can't move.

"Orb Of" spells - Backup for your Eldritch Blast if they have spell resistance. Sonic is good here, as it's a hard one to get resistance for.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-03-13, 01:03 PM
I'm looking at making a dual-wand weilding BBEG for an upcoming one-shot adventure. He'll have easy access to up to 10 wands at an instant's notice (either Arcane or Divine; he'll be a Warlock able to take 10 on his UMD). Now the question: What should spells should be in the wands? I have access to Core, C. Arcane, C. Adventurer and PHB2.

So - what wands should he have on his person? What order should he throw them against the PCs (3 or 4 12th level)? Or are the PCs high enough in level that 4th level spells and lower won't matter that much?

Thanks!

Generally higher level spells are more powerful mechanically than lower level spells so there is a cost factor associated with that. I like using a little cost to utility when a single level 4 wand charge has the same cost as as 28 level 1 charges. Give me four Cure Light Wounds charges in most instances instead of a single Cure Critical Wounds charge.

Suggested wealth by level for a L12 PC is 88,000 gp and suggested wealth by level for a L12 NPC with PC class levels is 27,000 gp and each are CR12 according to the DMG.

Give the BBEG a single "freebie" level of a NPC class like Aristocrat or Expert or Warrior or Adept which will make him L13 for suggested wealth by level 35,000 gp but still a CR12 which is an extra +8,000 gp. (Still works if the BBEG is a higher level NPC just scale the gp for wands)

I'd use the extra 8,000 gp (Over 20% of NPC wealth) only for wands and prorate usage since there is no need for all of them to be at 100%. More low level wands with more charges and few higher level wands with fewer charges) is a good rule of thumb.

Fully charged (Minimun CL) first level wands only cost 750 gp (15 gp a charge), second level wands normally cost 4,500 gp (90 gp a charge), third level wands cost 11,250 gp (225 gp charge) and 4th level wands cost 21,000 gp (420 gp a charge). Lots of options with 8,000 gp+

Cure Light Wounds (or Fast Healing 1), Charm Person, Color Spray, Grease, Longstrider, Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Alter Self, Dimension Hop, Invisibility, Rope Trick, Sculpted Grease (2nd), Suggestion (Bard), Web, Dispel Magic (for Buffs), Fireball or Lightning Bolt depending on the prevalent terrain, Enervation, Fly, Phantasmal Killer.

Be creative: Ambushes, Hit and Run tactics, Traps (Silent Image over a pit which will slow the PCs down if nothing else). Secret doors. Spy holes for line of sight.

kamikasei
2008-03-13, 01:16 PM
You can't take 10 on a use magic device check to activate a wand because there is a penalty for failure. If you roll a 1, you can't use the wand for the rest of the day.

As mentioned, this doesn't apply to Warlocks, but it also is invalid reasoning. You can't take 10 for UMD normally because... you just can't. It's specified in the skill description that you can't. You're thinking of taking 20, where it's assumed that you're rolling all the results 1-20, and so if something bad would happen on a failure, it happens.

(Also, in principle you could take 20 with UMD if you had a high enough skill. The wording is "...if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail,...", and a natural 1 isn't an auto-failure on a skill check.)

smart thog
2008-03-13, 01:31 PM
Don't be a warlock for this, (even though they rock) be one of these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3268734#post3268734)

playswithfire
2008-03-13, 02:08 PM
Fell Drain Magic Missile. Becomes a third level spell, so you'd need to have bought it from a fifth level wizard, so you'd get 3 missiles doing 1d4+1 force damage and bestowing a negative level*

Fell Drain from Libris Mortis

*temporary; goes away in 5 hours

Stapler
2008-03-13, 02:12 PM
Fell Drain Magic Missile. Becomes a third level spell, so you'd need to have bought it from a fifth level wizard, so you'd get 3 missiles doing 1d4+1 force damage and bestowing a negative level*

Fell Drain from Libris Mortis

*temporary; goes away in 5 hours

Damn... If that works it is amazingly broken.

FinalJustice
2008-03-13, 02:24 PM
I don't think it works that way. Fell Drain says it inflicts a negative level in each foe the spell deals damage. Thus, if one gets damaged by MM, it gets a negative level, not three. I work wonders against a party because you can hit maybe the whole party with it, and dual wielding, 2 negative level/round, unless someone has Shield, sounds like a good softening-up hit-and-run tactic.

playswithfire
2008-03-13, 02:27 PM
I'm not saying you can give one person 3 negative levels per cast; but you can hit 3 different people and give each of them one negative level per cast with this wand.

EDIT: Since we're talking 4th level spells here, for more fun, Make it a Fell Drain Fell Weaken Magic Missile; 4th level spell, so 7th level caster and 4 missiles each of which will hit a different PC and do 1d4+1 force damage, bestow a temporary negative level and give -4 to strength. Admittedly, the strength penalties won't stack like the negative levels will, but it's a nice little bonus

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2008-03-13, 02:30 PM
You can never go wrong with magic missle. Not sure if maximized mm, is below 4th level or not since I haven't played in a while.

Duke of URL
2008-03-13, 02:40 PM
Fell Drain Magic Missile. Becomes a third level spell, so you'd need to have bought it from a fifth level wizard, so you'd get 3 missiles doing 1d4+1 force damage and bestowing a negative level*

Fell Drain from Libris Mortis

*temporary; goes away in 5 hours

It'll cost about twice as much, but get that wand up to CL 9, and get 5 missiles instead. You won't need many charges in it, and extra actions are worth more than charges anyway (by having 5 missiles, you can achieve almost twice as many "actions" per charge expended).

FinalJustice
2008-03-13, 03:08 PM
playswithfire: Sure thing!

On topic:
Ray spells make great wands, because they usually are no-saves.
Splited Ray of Stupidity: Oh lord, teh cheese! Two rays striking for 1d4+1 int each, dual shoting then means 4d4+4 int. Make wizards cry, drop int-dumpers into comatose.

Ray of Dizziness:
No save slow effect.

Ray of Exhaustion:
Two of them means exhaustion, which is also good. Dual wield for instant exhaustion.

bugsysservant
2008-03-13, 03:28 PM
You can never go wrong with magic missle. Not sure if maximized mm, is below 4th level or not since I haven't played in a while.

Magic Missle has more damage when empowered than when maximized.

1d4+1*1.5=5.25

4+1=5

Quincunx
2008-03-13, 04:14 PM
Put together the suggestions of Telonius and CASTLEMIKE: make a great array of wands with only a few charges remaining. Cheaper to make, much less unbalancing when they fall into the PCs' grubby hands.

The_Werebear
2008-03-13, 04:35 PM
Just a list, rather than reasoning. Core only, on this one

Black Tentacles
Enervation
Confusion
Charm Monster
Greater Invisibility
Ray of Exhaustion
Slow
Dispel Magic
Ray of Enfeeblement
Cure Critical Wounds

AslanCross
2008-03-13, 05:51 PM
No ranking, but I'll separate arcane and divine.

Arcane:
-Black Tentacles (Warlock won't need this if he has Chilling Tentacles)
-Celerity (Might be too broken)
-Orb spells (my favorite is Cold)
-Solid Fog (Very good for slowing down PCs while flying over them, strafing them with orb spells, eldritch blast, or area blasts like fireball)
-Haste
-Slow
-Greater Invisibility (A Warlock won't need this if he has Walk Unseen)
-Ray of Stupidity
-Glitterdust
-Fly (Since your BBEG is a warlock, he won't really need this if he has Fell Flight.)

Divine:
-Divine Power (Only really good if you plan on going into melee, though the BAB increase will help you hit more.)
-Cure Critical Wounds
-Bestow Curse (Warlock won't need this if he has Curse of Despair)
-Spiritual Weapon
-Divine Favor
-Assay Spell Resistance (Might not be so necessary)
-Sudden Stalagmite
-Bless Weapon (with so many creatures with DR/Good, I'd say it's actually useful)
-Undetectable Alignment (very useful for bad guys, especially if there are a lot of Robopaladins running around detecting evil.)
-Shield of Faith

hylian chozo
2008-03-13, 06:50 PM
I suggest phantasmal killer: It's one of the the first save-or-die spells you can get but it requires two different saving throws (will and fort). Be sure to hit the rogue.
Web: Keeps them from moving and entangles.
Grease: Disarm the fighter or deny them a dex bonus to AC
Mirror Image: Create illusory duplicates of you, my personal favorite
Stinking cloud: fortitude save each round or only get one move action and can't attack
Solid fog: no save, can only move 5 feet per round
Resilient sphere: reflex or trapped. alternatively, protect yourself and summon monsters outside it.
Shout: some damage and fortitude or deafened
Silence: shut down a caster without silent spell (divine)
Polymorph: I do not recommend it.

Cruiser1
2008-03-13, 07:04 PM
Magic Missle has more damage when empowered than when maximized.
1d4+1*1.5=5.25
4+1=5

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The Empower Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#empowerSpell) metamagic only multiplies variable numbers by 1.5, so it doesn't affect the static +1 part of magic missile.

Empowered: 1d4*1.5 (3.75 average) + 1 = 4.75 average
Maximized: 1d4 (4 always) + 1 = 5 always

Empower and Maximize are however very close in effectiveness here, where Empower is indeed better bang for buck in spell level increase (2 vs 3), at least for small damage dice like d4's.

Flickerdart
2008-03-13, 07:18 PM
See if you can get away with duct-taping several Wands of Maximized Magic Missile together. 25 damage per shot isn't spectacular against a level 12 player (hell, even the suckiest of Wizards with no CON will take two shots to kill) but 50 or more is. Have him be teamed up with an Artificer to create a Magic Missile Gatling gun.

0mar
2008-03-13, 07:53 PM
Dual-wielding Wands made me think of this

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/19

SamTheCleric
2008-03-13, 07:56 PM
There's a rod from the magic item compendium that lets you put 3 wands together and fire them all at once using 3 charges from each... could you dual-wand-wield two of those to get 6 castings of various wands?

(Like, say, 6 wands of CL7 Scorching ray.... 12 rays... 48d6 damage)

senrath
2008-03-13, 08:43 PM
There's a rod from the magic item compendium that lets you put 3 wands together and fire them all at once using 3 charges from each... could you dual-wand-wield two of those to get 6 castings of various wands?

(Like, say, 6 wands of CL7 Scorching ray.... 12 rays... 48d6 damage)

I think you can only use one rod at a time, though I might be wrong. Still, 24d6 (assuming all hit) is nothing to sneeze at :P

Squash Monster
2008-03-13, 08:45 PM
Level 4 is a huge turning point in spell power level.

Here are some highlights from core, ranked best first:

Black Tentacles - this could be a party wipe in a single casting
Polymorph - turn anything into a good fighter by turning it into a hydra
Freedom of Movement - massively important because spells like Black Tentacles and Solid Fog exist
Solid Fog - the cloud/fog spells are usually some of the best, this is the highlight of that series
Divine Power - great buff, everyone knows that. Try coupling it with Polymorph
Lesser Orb of Invulnerability - blanket immunities are always powerful
Enervation - one of the best general purpose debuff spells ever

SurlySeraph
2008-03-13, 08:59 PM
Fell Drain Magic Missile. Becomes a third level spell, so you'd need to have bought it from a fifth level wizard, so you'd get 3 missiles doing 1d4+1 force damage and bestowing a negative level*

Fell Drain from Libris Mortis

*temporary; goes away in 5 hours

My favorite metamagic feat! Try Fell Drain Death Armor (2nd-level spell from the Spell Compendium; Fell Drain Death Armor is 4th level). Every time somebody hits you, they take a negative level. Take THAT, 1d2 Crusader (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=855878)!. :smallbiggrin:

Solo
2008-03-14, 12:46 AM
The Crusader only hits you once, though.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-03-14, 01:11 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but the OP isn't really trying to destroy or kill the PCs just make it a little more challenging and enjoyable adventure for him and the players.

Falrin
2008-03-14, 09:13 AM
Fly.
Invisibility.

Get a Solid fog between you and the fools.

Summon Monster IV. And again. And Again.



x Solid Fogs to block them.
x Stinking Cloud to keep them
x Black Tentacles to finnish them of while blocking & keeping.

namo
2008-03-14, 10:09 PM
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The Empower Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#empowerSpell) metamagic only multiplies variable numbers by 1.5, so it doesn't affect the static +1 part of magic missile.


Wrong : check the PHB, it explicitly uses Magic Missile as an example in the Empower description.

Gaiwecoor
2008-03-14, 10:39 PM
Woah! Put a question in the pot, stir and let simmer for a day... Output is deliciously useful. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for all the input! It looks like the guy will have a couple in store to set the initial ground of battle (Solid Fog, Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion), then drop them to use his main attack. I think he'll be focusing on Rays; that way he won't have to worry about the PCs making any saves.

Excellent! This will be great.

Collin152
2008-03-14, 11:17 PM
Wrong : check the PHB, it explicitly uses Magic Missile as an example in the Empower description.

Sorry, but he's not wrong. It uses magic missile because the missiles have variale effects, which are empowered. The static +1 to damage isn't multiplied.
But even if it was, we always round down in DnD, remember? It wouldn't make a differance with a 1.5 modifier.

mabriss lethe
2008-03-15, 12:33 AM
Hound of Doom! because everyone needs a shadowy direwolf buddy to kill things for them.

That being said, It might be worthwhile to get the obtain familiar feat and improved familiar to pocket something like an Imp for more wand wielding mayhem.

Corlis
2008-03-15, 01:09 AM
Dual-wielding Wands made me think of this

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/19Curse you, I was going to post that! :smallfurious:

Dan_Hemmens
2008-03-15, 05:41 AM
x Solid Fogs to block them.
x Stinking Cloud to keep them
x Black Tentacles to finnish them of while blocking & keeping.

In the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie?

Kristoss
2008-03-15, 06:58 AM
Sorry, but he's not wrong. It uses magic missile because the missiles have variale effects, which are empowered. The static +1 to damage isn't multiplied.
But even if it was, we always round down in DnD, remember? It wouldn't make a differance with a 1.5 modifier.

Actually it explicitly says "(roll 1d4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile)". As in multiply the result of 1d4+1.

About the rounding down factor, we are talking about averages not singular results so although we round down, the extra .25 will still be making a difference over time.

Paul H
2008-03-15, 07:24 AM
Hi

Just noticed this thread, but I think you're all overlooking some important spells.

Summon Nature's Ally - for that healing unicorn

Heart of Earth Druid 4 etc (CMage) (Short Version)

Duration 1hr/lvl
+8 bonus vs rush/overrun/trip attack
2x caster lvl Temp HP (Max 30)
Stoneskin as swift action. (But this limits entire spell to 1 rnd/lvl)
NO MATERIAL COMPONENT (Cheap Stoneskin, anyone)?

Heart of Water Druid 3 etc. (Short Version)

Duration 1hr/lvl
+8 Racial bonus on Swim checks
Water Breathing
+5 Enhancement bonus to Escape Artist
Freedom of Movement as swift action. (Limits entire spell to 1 rnd/lvl as above)


Heart of Air Druid 2 etc.

Duration 1 hr/lvl
+10 enhancement to Jump checks
+10 enhancement to Fly speed (if you can already fly)
Feather Fall as immediate action (limits duration to 1 rnd/lvl)

Note: If you have 2 'Heart' spells active you also get Light Fortification (25% chance ignore crits/sneak attacks)

Cheers
Paul H

CthulhuM
2008-03-15, 02:55 PM
If you have lords of madness, you might want to take a look at Grell Lightning Lances as an interesting alternative to standard wands. The greater lightning lance deals 5d6 damage (no save) with a ranged touch and arcs to a second target for an additional 5d6 damage. What's more, they function as weapons rather than wands, so with iterative attacks and two-weapon fighting you could fire 4 blasts a round.

They might also be a handy way to keep your PCs from hauling in way too much loot from the encounter. Non-Grell can't use them without use magic device, so your party may well just have to sell the things.