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Tempest Fennac
2008-03-14, 05:29 AM
On page 63 of http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/downloads/OSRIC.pdf, it mentioned that the Chill Metal spell could result in severe frostbite which could lead to the victim's fingers or ears needing to be amputated. Were there any rules concerning the effects of frostbite in the game, and were there any other ways to conter the frostbite, except for amputation? Also, what mechanical would blistering caused by Heat Metal have on the victim? (The OSRIC file doesn't appear to say anything about what the effects actually do).

hamlet
2008-03-14, 07:05 AM
On page 63 of http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/downloads/OSRIC.pdf, it mentioned that the Chill Metal spell could result in severe frostbite which could lead to the victim's fingers or ears needing to be amputated. Were there any rules concerning the effects of frostbite in the game, and were there any other ways to conter the frostbite, except for amputation? Also, what mechanical would blistering caused by Heat Metal have on the victim? (The OSRIC file doesn't appear to say anything about what the effects actually do).

There were rules for Frostbite in the Wilderness Survival Guide I believe, though it's been quite a while since I've read the book, so I could be wrong.

The mechanic for the burns and blisters? Well, that would be the damage taken yes? Why do you need more than that?

Amputation? No, as I recall there was no rule for that in AD&D, nor should there really have been.

Jayabalard
2008-03-14, 07:07 AM
There were environmental effects in some of the 1ed AD&D supplements, not just the wilderness survival guide, but that's probably the best source.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-14, 07:08 AM
Thanks for telling me. I was just wondering due to how I'd assume that a Wizard or Illusionist who had to have his/her fingers removed would have issues with casting a lot of spells with somatic componants (and it would probably hinder a lot of other things for other classes such as holding weapons).

Matthew
2008-03-14, 08:10 AM
As far as the core rules go, individual DM's would be expected to judge the consequences for themselves. When the DMG discusses disabilities as a result of severe injury, the consequences are also left up to the DM.

hamlet
2008-03-14, 08:32 AM
As far as the core rules go, individual DM's would be expected to judge the consequences for themselves. When the DMG discusses disabilities as a result of severe injury, the consequences are also left up to the DM.

Come on, you know that answer wouldn't fly on this board.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-03-14, 08:41 AM
Come on, you know that answer wouldn't fly on this board.

I don't think any edition of D&D / AD&D has actually had rules for disabilities (other than using the rules for the blindness/deafness spells for the corresponding disabilities). Crippled limbs and the like just aren't part of the game.

Matthew
2008-03-14, 08:46 AM
Actually... D20 has some optional rules for specific injuries in the DMG and AD&D 2e had a fairly complex critical hit system in Player's Option - Combat and Tactics, which included numerous injuries and their consequences.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-14, 08:48 AM
I never understood why thee weren;t proper rules for dismembrment to be honest (considering how the PCs are adventurers, you'd expect there to be a risk of them losing a hand or leg). What did the 2nd Edition handbook say on this topic? I've never seen that book at all.

Matthew
2008-03-14, 08:52 AM
Well, according to the DMG, it's because it isn't much fun to play a character with multiple significant injuries. I can attest to that, having played other systems where characters could actually be injured in unrecoverable ways.

Given that the inspiration for D&D is Conan and LotR, it's not really that surprising. Conan dishes out plenty of horrible injuries, but I don't recall him ever having to actually suffer any significant wound himself.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-14, 08:55 AM
Good point. Admittedly, it wouldn't be as much of a problem if there's a level 13 Cleric in the party or if there's a level 9 Egoist Psion (admittedly, getting to that point would be a problem if someone got disabled early on).

Oeryn
2008-03-14, 08:56 AM
IIRC (which is a stretch, since this is goin' back 15 years ago or so), I think there was an article in Dragon that included rules for amputation and dismemberment. It was pirate-themed, and there were several magic items like peg legs that allowed you to move faster, jump higher, etc.

No idea on the year or issue, though.

hamlet
2008-03-14, 09:08 AM
I never understood why thee weren;t proper rules for dismembrment to be honest (considering how the PCs are adventurers, you'd expect there to be a risk of them losing a hand or leg). What did the 2nd Edition handbook say on this topic? I've never seen that book at all.

The rational behind it was, in effect, that it was a level of complexity that just didn't have to be there. If the individual group or DM desired them, they were easily enough added in via house rule, but it wasn't up to the core rules to support that kind of thing when common sense could do just as well.

That, and with all the flak that D&D was absorbing from various quarters for being Satanic and a bad influence on kids, did we really need graphic violent descriptions?

Essentially, you as a DM have to make the decision. If you feel that the character in question has suffered enough cold damage or heat damage to render a limb beyond repair and in need of amputation, you need to determine how that affects the character.

Obviously, a hand with no fingers cannot hold a weapon or shield. Climbing ropes will be much more difficult if not flat out impossible. A thief might suffer significant skill penalties. A spellcaster with no fingers probably wouldn't be able to cast since he would be unable to hold spell componenets.

Losing a footwould obviously reduce movement (say, from a standard 12 to a 9 or even less unless some very special measures were taken). Losing a leg entirely would make it impossible to walk.

Losing an entire arm would mean that he could not use a shield in that arm at all and likely that any armor would have to be custom made and special fit.

Use your common sense and you won't go wrong.