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Kaelaroth
2008-03-15, 09:35 AM
This homebrew is dedicated to Aziraphale. With special thanks to everyone remotely related to him, or the Buffyverse.

Willow's Wrath
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25ft. + 5ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Special, see below.
Saving Throw: Fortitude three-quarters
Spell Resistance: Yes
By waving a hand, and speaking a few words (typically expressing dismissal or disgust), the caster of this spell can rip the skin off another being's body. This is an effect that deals 1d10/caster level (maximum of 22d10), although a fortitude save can be made to only take three-quarters damage. Should the victim survive, they will then take 5d6 points of bleeding damage for the next three rounds. If the victim is killed by the initial effect, his/her soul is instantly sent to the Abyss, regardless of alignment. He/she can not be ressurected for weeks/caster's caster level. All those who witness the spell (save the caster and the victim) taking place must pass a Will Save, or become sickened for as many rounds as the caster has levels. This spell has adverse effects on the caster, however, temporarily making them chaotic evil, for as many hours as the caster has levels. Incorporeal beings, undead, plants, constructs (unless made of flesh), and elementals are all immune to the effects of this spell.

Half-blood
2008-03-15, 10:33 AM
:smalleek: By the gods. This TRULY sounds like a powerful spell that A BBEG
might use...Me-likes it. Now, I haven't the players hand book in front of me,
but Isn't there an "Evil" spell descriptor? or is that only for divine spells? I might also recommend putting a cap on the 1d10/level damage. maybe at twenty?
But yeah. this Might be the evilest spell I've ever seen in my life...It may also belong in the BoVD. but i dunno, I've never read it.

Ethrael
2008-03-15, 10:46 AM
Sounds really cool! Only thing is that you might wanna be specific about what type of creatures it affects, it's generally unclear what people mean by "skin".

SoD
2008-03-15, 10:51 AM
Maybe doesn't effect ozzes, undead and plants?

Destro_Yersul
2008-03-15, 11:03 AM
I am giving this to my BBEG.

And yeah, I'd say no oozes, plants, undead, constructs or probably elementals. Same sort of thing as creating skeletons, except substitute 'corpse of corporeal creature with a skeleton' for 'corporeal living creature with an outer covering of some sort'

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-03-15, 11:03 AM
Wow... This is definitely one of the most evil spells I've seen...

It's even worse then the spell which rips peoples veins out of them! I can't remember what it's called though... Originally from the Libris Mortis: Book of Bad Latin, also appears in the SpC...

I agree, plants, undead and oozes should be immune.

So should Ozzy Osbourne. He can rock without his skin!

Destro_Yersul
2008-03-15, 11:07 AM
It's Avasculate, for the record. I have an unhealthy fondness for everything in the Libris Mortis.

GoC
2008-03-15, 11:45 AM
Ouch.:smalleek:

wadledo
2008-03-15, 11:52 AM
What about creatures with regeneration?:smallconfused:

Copacetic
2008-03-15, 11:59 AM
They die slower, thats all.

JoshuaZ
2008-03-15, 12:24 PM
This homebrew is dedicated to Aziraphale. With special thanks to everyone remotely related to him, or the Buffyverse.

Willow's Wrath
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25ft. + 5ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Special, see below.
Saving Throw: Fortitude three-quarters
Spell Resistance: Yes
By waving a hand, a speaking a few words, the caster of this spell can rip the skin off another being's body. This is an effect that deals 1d10/caster level, although a fortitude save can be made to only take three-quarters damage. Should the victim survive, they will then take 5d6 points of bleeding damage for the next three rounds. If the victim is killed by the initial effect, his/her soul is instantly sent to the Abyss, regardless of alignment. He/she can not be ressurected for weeks/caster's caster level. All those who witness the spell (save the caster and the victim) taking place must pass a Will Save, or become sickened for as many rounds as the caster has levels. This spell has adverse effects on the caster, however, temporarily making them chaotic evil, for as many hours as the caster has levels.

Ok, a few comments: first, there should be a cap on damage maybe at most 30d10? Second, I'm a bit worried by the save for only three-quarters damage, that means that this spell is still going to kill a lot of upper level characters even on a successful save. Third, the drawback isn't a serious drawback if one is already chaotic evil. Fourth, I don't think the spell should have a verbal component- Willow just says bored now and waves her hand, so it may make sense to restrict to just a somatic component. Even then, the spell is very powerful so I'd suggest an xp cost to balance it out, maybe 500 xp?.

Kaelaroth
2008-03-15, 02:18 PM
Wow, it's great that so many people replied. Now, to answer questions.

- I felt it needed a verbal component, just to make it fit in better with D&D rules and terms. My only basis for the spell was Willow's casting of it, and in that she said words. It seemed to fit.
- Yeah, it doesn't affect certain beings. Amended.
- Damage caps have been added.
- I wasn't aware you could have alignments for arcane spells.
- Creatures with regeneration or fast healing work as normal. If they aren't killed by the initial ick, I suppose there's a chance they'll survive.

Lyesmith
2008-03-15, 02:28 PM
I had an idea for the Alignment Shift thing, too.
In Leiu of that, it could have a chance (roll a d10, if the roll is below 9, perhaps?) to send the caster into a murderous rage, not stopping untill they are reduced to 1/3 hitpoints / have destroyed everything they can / are brought out of it by some other method.

Or is that too harsh a punishment? I'm not really sure.

Smiley_
2008-03-15, 02:39 PM
This is powerfull and will probably slay most any PC hit with it (with the possible exception of raging CON based barbarians with 300 hit points)

This spell would be great for a BBEG, but I don't think the PCs should be able to get their hands on it.

Fenrir
2008-03-15, 02:58 PM
Holly... wait, now that is evil

I usually play dark characters:smallbiggrin: , although i've never played an evil caster... I don't think I could bring myself to use that spell, my god that is evil.

Anyway, congratulations on creating the evilEST spell i have ever read...

Stycotl
2008-03-15, 04:04 PM
i don't really see any need for the fort save 3/4. you would have to explain why it isn't a good-old 1/2? it's not a gigantic deal, but it does go against a standard, and it also screws with or simply undoes some of the effects of feats and class abilities, such as mettle, and others.

Kaelaroth
2008-03-15, 04:53 PM
There is a reason for three quarter damage. You still get some satisfaction for getting rid of some damage, but your abilities like mettle don't work. After all, this is, as many have said, the evil BBEG weapon - it's not going to be easy.

Lyesmith
2008-03-16, 03:37 AM
It could also make for a rather effective DM PC spell, and if you choose to keep the madness effect afterwards (Willow must have been pissed at her DM, mind. "Okay, your lover is dead, and you just flayed the guy responsible alive. Now roll a d10. Mmmkay, you rolled a 1. Kill your freinds and destroy the world.") might make for a cool boss battle - The sorceror who initially sent you on the mission to destroy the BBEG at the start of the campaign and who has been helping you throughout joins your party for the final assault on his fortress.

Big confrontation, and the Sorceror finally gets his revenge by ripping Tophats McBadguy alive in front of you, then proceeds to try and kill you.

Of course, i might just be a bid sadistic. I was the one who persuaded him to start this homebrew, after all...:smallbiggrin:

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-16, 03:46 AM
Excluding how morbid it is, it is an interesting spell. I would defnitly have it as an Evil only spell, though. Apart from delaying the victim being revived, would sending them to the Abyss have any other effects on them, and would a normal Ressurrection (or Raise Dead if Gentle Repose was used) be enough to bring them back?

Kaelaroth
2008-03-16, 05:51 AM
Excluding how morbid it is, it is an interesting spell. I would defnitly have it as an Evil only spell, though. Apart from delaying the victim being revived, would sending them to the Abyss have any other effects on them, and would a normal Ressurrection (or Raise Dead if Gentle Repose was used) be enough to bring them back?

First off, non-evil people are able to use it. Admittedly, using this spell would probably send you spiralling into evil, but looking at various campagins I have played, there is sometimes justification for a good person to use dark, unholy magicks.

Secondly, ressurection. This spell kills your body, and sends your soul to the Abyss, where it can't be ressurected for as many weeks as the caster has levels. This means that no kind of ressurecting spell can bring the personage back to life, at least till the time limit is up. Gentle Repose merely keeps the body from decaying, so, in this situation, it is entirely useless - as the body would be lacking skin!

Aziraphale, I felt that the fact that you're stuck as chaotic evil afterwards could force you into doing chaotic evil stuff. The DM could make you destroy the world, or he might not. Either way, in this way of doing it, there's a chance that the caster could try to.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-16, 06:07 AM
Thanks for telling me (I forgot that Gentle Repose needs an intact coupse). I know the time limit would stop any sort of resurrection until it had expired: what I meant was would the victim end up in the Abyss again if they died or would they suffer from any side effects due to spending time there. Also, if it didn't kill the victim, would lacking a skin cause any other problems, or would they only actually end up without a skin if they were killed with the spell or the bleeding it causes afterwards?

Kaelaroth
2008-03-16, 06:18 AM
Thanks for telling me (I forgot that Gentle Repose needs an intact coupse). I know the time limit would stop any sort of resurrection until it had expired: what I meant was would the victim end up in the Abyss again if they died or would they suffer from any side effects due to spending time there. Also, if it didn't kill the victim, would lacking a skin cause any other problems, or would they only actually end up without a skin if they were killed with the spell or the bleeding it causes afterwards?

Most of this would be up to the DM's discretion. In my campaigns, I would probably work out some major issues with lacking a skin (like... dying of blood loss? infection?). Once you've been ressurected, and you die again (but not from this spell) the afterlife is open to possiblity. It only traps you in the Abyss if you were killed by this spell. Of course, if you were evil, you'll end up there again anyway.

And I don't think you're understanding. Gentle Repose keeps a body from decaying. It keeps it in its condition, whether icky or not, for a certain amount of time. So, you could cast it, and keep the body from decaying, but it wouldn't bring back the dead, or bring his skin back.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-16, 06:24 AM
Thanks for telling me (I know GR wouldn't bring the corpse back, but I wondered if it could preserve the body so a Raise Dead/Regenreate combo could be used on the body aferwards). Regarding not having a skin, I'd say it should cause 1 Con pointsworth of damage/turn once the HP loss from the spell is over with the Con damage only stopping (and being countered) once a Regenerate is used on the victim. Alternativley, the Ultimate Scourge has an abilit which skins the victim which could be useful to you here: http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Scourge .

Roderick_BR
2008-03-16, 11:12 AM
A spell that deals 1d10/level damage, taking 3/4 on a sucessful save (for the sole purpose of avoiding mettle) and deals additional damage, AND sends your soul to the abyss? That would be epic level, but that's just me.
Sounds great for a really nasty BBeG, but looks overpowered.

Still doesn't beats a spell I read once, that on a sucessful save, the target is slowed by a number of turns equal to the caster level, and on a failed save, turns the creature into a treant that obeys the caster for a number of days equal to the caster level.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-18, 03:18 PM
Is the victim free to leave the Abyss for their proper afterlife once the spell's duration has expired, or are they stuck there unless they are revived? If it's perminant, I can see it as being a problem if the victim worshiped a good (or possibly neutral) diety: I can't imagine someone like Pelor or St. Cuthbert being happy about one of their followers being stuck there forever.

Collin152
2008-03-18, 03:48 PM
Is the victim free to leave the Abyss for their proper afterlife once the spell's duration has expired, or are they stuck there unless they are revived? If it's perminant, I can see it as being a problem if the victim worshiped a good (or possibly neutral) diety: I can't imagine someone like Pelor or St. Cuthbert being happy about one of their followers being stuck there forever.

Yeah, but what are they going to do? They got bigger fish to fry.

Oh, and this spell looks familiar. I seem to recall seeing a spell that removed all your skin, where you if you failed the save you died, but if you made it you only wished you were dead.

Corolinth
2008-03-18, 06:16 PM
Look up Flensing in the Spell Compendium (page 95).

Reinboom
2008-03-18, 07:32 PM
Average damage: (For a level 22 character)

22 * 5.5 = 121, +3 rounds of 5d6 (3.5 * 5 = 17.5 per, *3 = 52.5).

It can be survived, reasonably.

Lets say, 18th level 'caster' (4 levels under, to emulate CR differences for the party vs one), (d4 hit die, first maxed, average otherwise. 4 + (17 * 2.5) = 46.5, 12, with a +6 item (18 con) = 4 * 18, or 72. 118 HP. On average damage, the caster survives at -3 HP on a failed save, and can be healed. Of course, that's playing with dice range, a bit over is death, a bit under is 'perfectly fine and fully capable!' (1 HP :smalltongue: )

With a smarter party, that caster should have temporary HP if this is the BBEG. And/Or indomitability. This isn't even accounting for d8, d10, or d12 hit die.


Now a look at disintegrate.

At 20th level, it is 40d6 (40 * 3.5 = 140), however, saving from it is a lot more beneficial than your spell. The initial casting of disintegrate, if successful, is a bit more worrisome... depending on the initiative of the cleric.

This is coming from a 6th level spell.


So, if we want to use that as a baseline, I would say this is not of an equivalent scaling that magic normally takes between 6th to 9th level spells, and is underpowered in comparison to other 9th leveled.




Also, I would recommend adding the [Evil] and [Chaotic] descriptors on it. They don't actually limit who can take it, but they do provide an interaction effect.
Also, possibly [Vile] (see Book of Vile Darkness)...


Aside, you should look up Flensing, as been said. It is also a 'remove your flesh' spell, with fort partial (that even a successful save doesn't really stop), and better emulates it in my opinion. (Though, flensing is weakish as well).

Corolinth
2008-03-18, 09:29 PM
Consider the other effects of the spell, beyond just damage. The condemnation of a soul to the lower planes and prevention of resurrection is rather nasty, and deserving of a higher level spell slot than would normally be "balanced" for a spell of this damage. Such an effect should probably be permanent, rather than temporary (but able to be circumvented via Wish or Miracle). Being save for 3/4 as opposed to save for half also increases the power of the spell, as well as the the secondary effect for people witnessing the spell.

Likewise, disintegrate has mitigating factors to reduce the level of the spell. Consider that rather than being fortitude for half damage, it's fortitude for a flat 5d6 (which at the lowest possible caster level is less than a quarter damage, and at the highest possible caster level is only an eight of the damage of the spell). In addition, disintegrate is subject to spell resistance, and requires an attack roll. There are three ways to defend against disintegrate, as opposed to the two ways in which one may defend against this spell, and furthermore, one of those defenses (the save) really doesn't help you that much.

Bored Now! is a bit more powerful than it looks on paper, as is Flensing when you consider just what con damage actually does to a target's ability to survive further nasty stuff. You can make two saves against Flensing and still be in a position to die easy. Furthermore, it can kill you even if you win the fight, and let me tell you - that sucks.

I offered Flensing to serve as a baseline for comparison rather than to suggest that there's already a spell that performs this purpose. Beefing Flensing up to a 9th level spell is probably a lot more effective than creating something totally new. It also may better simulate the effects of being skinned alive in game. You want your PCs to say, "Holy crap! That was nasty!" A 22d6 damage spell doesn't quite have that oomph. 10d6 or 12d6 over the course of two or three rounds combined with a chunk of ability score damage to two separate stats can put a level 20 PC in pretty bad shape.

Some spells are designed for NPCs rather than PCs, and they're balanced differently. This is clearly not designed to be a spell the PCs ever cast themselves (likewise, Flensing is designed for an NPC villain rather than a PC). The PCs don't really find out what the long-term effects of most of their spells are. They cast them in combat, they kill their opponent, and the fight is over. The fact that the bad guy is cursed for life means very little when their life ends four rounds later. Meanwhile, a villain can cast a spell that appears underpowered for its level, and doesn't help the villain win the battle (especially considering the spell he could have used in its place might have turned the tide), but leaves the PCs trying to undo its effects for a month and a half of game time.

If eight months later, the PCs are still talking about that rat bastard who screwed up Bob's world for six weeks straight... Which spell ended up being more powerful, then?

Vuzzmop
2008-03-18, 09:37 PM
So...deliciously...evil.

Its enough to make a grown elder evil cry.:smallamused:

Reinboom
2008-03-18, 09:43 PM
Which spell ended up being more powerful, then?

The one that actually killed Bob.

Y'know, the Finger of Death/Flesh to Stone/Shivering Touch (ish)/Baleful Polymorph (ish)/etc. :smalltongue:


The goal of my post was to illustrate that... this spell really doesn't kill as easily as massive damage might look on paper. And not as interestingly as one might expect either.


I also agreed to the flensing. Flensing is significant more astounding steady horror than what this spell provides.

Rather than just "Ow, I took a lot of damage... and possibily a bunch of other effects, but hey, I didn't die from my flesh being removed, and i still feel just as ok due to D&D's HP not representative of actual condition until you lower from 1... so uh... hey cleric, want to heal me real quick?".

You get a "Oh crap, cleric, please get rid of this ability damage now that makes me more susceptible to being ripped apart again! And this other damage to! Next round too! And the following round as well! This sucks!"

Ninjalitude
2008-03-18, 11:29 PM
This homebrew is dedicated to Aziraphale. With special thanks to everyone remotely related to him, or the Buffyverse.

Willow's Wrath
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25ft. + 5ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Special, see below.
Saving Throw: Fortitude three-quarters
Spell Resistance: Yes
By waving a hand, and speaking a few words (typically expressing dismissal or disgust), the caster of this spell can rip the skin off another being's body. This is an effect that deals 1d10/caster level (maximum of 22d10), although a fortitude save can be made to only take three-quarters damage. Should the victim survive, they will then take 5d6 points of bleeding damage for the next three rounds. If the victim is killed by the initial effect, his/her soul is instantly sent to the Abyss, regardless of alignment. He/she can not be ressurected for weeks/caster's caster level. All those who witness the spell (save the caster and the victim) taking place must pass a Will Save, or become sickened for as many rounds as the caster has levels. This spell has adverse effects on the caster, however, temporarily making them chaotic evil, for as many hours as the caster has levels. Incorporeal beings, undead, plants, constructs (unless made of flesh), and elementals are all immune to the effects of this spell.

this spell should be called the "Wrath of Simon" (what ever happened to william hung anyway? they couldn't resurrect him could they?)

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-19, 03:46 AM
In regards to Collin152's comment, I know dieties probably have bigger things to worry about, but I still can't see good dieties as being willing to do nothing at all about it (being as the gods are bound to be much more powerful then any mortal who used that spell, they should be able to at least negate the part where the victim is sent to the Abyss).

Yakk
2008-03-19, 06:48 PM
Less instant-kill, more evil:

1d8 (max 20d8) damage per caster level, fort for half.

All attempts to heal the flayed target must defeat the caster of Bored Now in a caster level contest. Even if the healer wins, healing is only half as effective.

Until the target is healed to full HP, the target takes 1d6 con damage every round from their lack of skin. In addition, they can only take a standard or move action on each round. If they take a standard action (or any other action deemed strenuous when disabled, such as casting a quickend spell), they take an additional 1d6 con damage.

Tack on the "sent to hell" bit. I'd have it happen if you die before the damage is healed.

Now you are a pile of fleshless meat. You are hard to heal, and until you are healed you are bleeding out, dieing, and rather screwed.

On the other hand, the instant-kill-ness is toned down.

Collin152
2008-03-19, 07:15 PM
In regards to Collin152's comment, I know dieties probably have bigger things to worry about, but I still can't see good dieties as being willing to do nothing at all about it (being as the gods are bound to be much more powerful then any mortal who used that spell, they should be able to at least negate the part where the victim is sent to the Abyss).

Oh, and the Evil Gods are just going to let that happen?

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-20, 02:31 AM
Good point. (They may end up coming to some sort of agreement to avoid problems, especially since LE dieties would probably side with good dieties on this issue due to the Blood Wars). In regards to Yakk's idea, would a Regenerate spell successfully stop the spell's effects, or would another healing spell be enough to counter it? (I know a Regenerate would be needed eventually to resore the victim's skin).

Yakk
2008-03-20, 09:16 AM
Good point. (They may end up coming to some sort of agreement to avoid problems, especially since LE dieties would probably side with good dieties on this issue due to the Blood Wars). In regards to Yakk's idea, would a Regenerate spell successfully stop the spell's effects, or would another healing spell be enough to counter it? (I know a Regenerate would be needed eventually to resore the victim's skin).

I was going to be less evil, and have the skin grow back if you are healed up to full. I just made it hard (all healing must beat a caster level check against the flayer, and even if it passes it is halved) to get back to full HP.

Without healing magic, however, the target is simply doomed.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-20, 09:31 AM
Thanks for explaining. Would a successful regenerate immedietly counter the spell?

Yakk
2008-03-20, 03:03 PM
Sure we could allow that ... after the 3 round casting time and 2d10 rounds required for the missing organ (skin) to grow back.

That's a lot of con damage to soak...

Regenerate isn't supposed to be a combat spell, as far as I can tell.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-20, 03:07 PM
I'd forgotten about that if I'm honest with you. Incidentally, is there any real way for this spell to be countered which doesn't involve tons of diamonds? I'm assuming that Heal would work to a degree, but it wouldn't stop the Con damage.

Yakk
2008-03-20, 03:59 PM
My version? Just heal the target ASAP to full HP.

Once at full HP, the con damage stops.

It heals 150/2 HP if the healer wins the caster level check. This spell does 90/2 if the target makes his fort save. If the target was unwounded and won the fort save, and the healer wins the opposed level check to have the heal work, a single cast of heal ends the spell effect.

What makes the spell nasty is the multiple hurdles the defender has to win. They have to win the fort save -- or that's 90 damage they have to heal. If they are damaged by other sources -- they gotta heal that damage too. Someone has to heal them, and when they try they have to win a caster level check, or the heal is blocked. The heals that do land are halved.

Then, there is maximizing the spell. :)

Balance check: Compare with meteor swarm: 112 damage on average on a touch attack (split up to 4 ways) with no save, and a bonus 84 damage reflex-for-half aoe damage (which happens to the target if they beat the touch attack), extremely long range.

So in terms of "instant kill", this spell is worse than meteor swarm. On the other hand, the version I wrote is far crueler. :)

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-20, 04:06 PM
I know it's much more sadistic. The multiple hurdles are what made me make the comment about needing to counter it with a Ressurrection spell.