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Count D20
2008-03-15, 07:04 PM
I'm doing a school project on comic books,including manga.
i am examining what links a reader to a book, what about it attracts them.
I am also establishing the genre conventions of comics as opposed to books as i feel this is related.

What do you guys like in a comic,what do you suppose makes something the "best" for you?
why are those elements good?
I'm gonna interview the workers and maybe the owner at the local comic shop.
What should I ask them or him?
I know things like What is the most popular, who usually buys what in terms of women,men, punks, goths whatever.
But i am afraid I'll miss the more subtle things about this.

Hzurr
2008-03-16, 10:48 AM
Essentially, the biggest requirement for any comic book is: Does it tell a good story? I mean, honestly, that question is true for any entertainment median you're talking about be it films, books or comics; but I'll break it down a bit more by highlighting one of the essential elements that I really look at.

Characterization: This one is huge, because one of the biggest challenges is writing a comic, is coming up with a character who can fly, and keeping him down to earth. Being able to tell a story about people with fantastic powers, and still making their actions understandable and relatable to the reader is a huge deal, that doesn't really happen anywhere outside of comics. A quick example: I've never met anyone who was blinded and as a result had amazing super powers and wouldn't know what to do if I did, but when I read Bendis' run on Daredevil, I had no problem understanding why Matt Murdock did what he did, and what drove him to do it. He felt like a real person, despite how impossible his existance his.

Mo_the_Hawked
2008-03-16, 03:37 PM
I've always had a thing for the guy fighting the good fight even he should be losing. Blame it on the 80s and GI Joe. But good story, snappy dialouge, decent enough art. I mean the're some art styles that turn me off, but then again some that I can't get enough of. Also I was turned off to the big events after the summer where I tracked down each individual issue of the Onsluaght event. After that I pretty much only buy trades.

RachelEvil
2008-03-16, 10:25 PM
Hm... I'll have to examine some things to come up with a proper answer, but I can say that for me, it mostly comes down to the writing. The plot has to hold my interest, the characterization has to ring true, the dialogue has to be good. Honestly, it's easier to concretely nail down the things I don't like than it is to nail down the things I do. The art itself doesn't hold precisely as much importance for me, but I do enjoy things that have good composition, and I love when there are perfectly beautiful images. The art would have to be unbelievably horrid to actually turn me off, though (like, say, Liefeld. Perfect example of horrendously bad art.).

As for genre conventions, I feel I should say that I don't think that's a goo idea. Comics are more of a medium than a genre. For example, Strangers In Paradise, Fun Home, Bone, The Invisibles, Finder, All-New Atom, A Contract With God, Maus, Lucifer, Queen and Country, Rex Libris, Swamp Thing, Howard the Duck, Promethea, Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E., Sandman, Buddy Does Seattle, Justice Society of America, Ghost World, Scene of the Crime, Black Hole, and Box Office Poison are all excellent comics, but try and come up with genre conventions that connect them, and you'll drive yourself insane.

Lord Galen
2008-04-02, 08:25 PM
MMMM Pretty Colours....

seriously though, Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics is a pretty definitive and important text. It's written/drawn in comic style too, so y'know the medium is the message and all. I wouldn't consider writing anything at all comprehensive about comics without rereading this first. Hope it helps. It should be quite well referenced on the interestingnet, too.

Grod_The_Giant
2008-04-02, 10:12 PM
Personally, I like good epic action. I'm not so interested in a character's personal problems- I want Good Guys vs Bad Guys with the Fate Of The World in balance! Things like Grant Morrison's JLA, or Green Lantern: Rebirth.

Piedmon_Sama
2008-04-03, 01:59 PM
What do I like to see in comics? Well, beyond the obvious--"good" art, "good" storytelling, etc.--the question seems almost impossible to answer. Comics is a medium, not a genre, so I can only couch story conventions and archetypes I like in the broadest terms. X-Men has almost nothing in common with Sin City, which has nothing in common with Naruto, which is again extremely different from the webcomic Scary-Go-Round.

A focus on concise storytelling is nice. Decompression (the act of spreading elaborate scenes over several pages, and thus making the length of a story several issues longer than it would otherwise be) was something new and interesting when it first appeared in American comics. However, it's become as tiresome as the "shaky cam" gimmick dominating action/thriller movies right now. Instead of trying to wow us with page after page of cinematic "widescreen" shots, I'd like to see a return to using those sparely and more of a focus on moving the plot forward.

I also prefer art that tells the story over art that distracts from it. This is, again, more of my anti-decompression/cinemascope leanings. Don't waste a two-page spread showing off an ultra-detailed pic of a space station if it's only going to be in one scene, you know? Don't spend four pages showing a chain of explosions, even if you can do epic, detailed artwork really well. Actually, I have nothing against big, impressive drawings---I just want to see them used more sparingly, instead of page after page of splash panels.

Also, and this is a complaint geared towards American superhero comics in particular, bring back sound effects and thought bubbles. Yes, it was awesome when Alan Moore did V for Vendetta and Watchmen with neither of those back in the 80's. It made the comics feel more serious, more mature, when you didn't have a big ZAP onomotopae hanging in the air. However, thought bubbles are one of the unique advantages that comics (and novels) have over stage and screen---we can get directly into a character's head! It's an important advantage for textual storytelling, not something that should be abandoned. The sound effects, too--while they can be silly if overdone, they serve a purpose: there were panels in V for Vendetta where I didn't know if someone had fired a gun because of the lack of Sound FX.

Fortunately on these last two points, writers seem to be slowly admitting them back in after they dropped out of vogue for so long. I want to see thought-bubbles make a return over the Frank Miller-style narrative captions. While those aren't a bad device, they've been overused and it can't be done without inviting a comparison to Miller.

Lord Galen
2008-04-03, 05:30 PM
Also, and this is a complaint geared towards American superhero comics in particular, bring back sound effects and thought bubbles. Yes, it was awesome when Alan Moore did V for Vendetta and Watchmen with neither of those back in the 80's. It made the comics feel more serious, more mature, when you didn't have a big ZAP onomotopae hanging in the air. However, thought bubbles are one of the unique advantages that comics (and novels) have over stage and screen---we can get directly into a character's head! It's an important advantage for textual storytelling, not something that should be abandoned. The sound effects, too--while they can be silly if overdone, they serve a purpose: there were panels in V for Vendetta where I didn't know if someone had fired a gun because of the lack of Sound FX.

Fortunately on these last two points, writers seem to be slowly admitting them back in after they dropped out of vogue for so long. I want to see thought-bubbles make a return over the Frank Miller-style narrative captions. While those aren't a bad device, they've been overused and it can't be done without inviting a comparison to Miller.

Captions always feel (or 'sound' in my head) like a voiceover, which definitely works in Sin City with its film noir reference. It almost adds another level of remove from the action? Which can work, or not, depending on the stories' requirements.
But there has definitely been too much pandering to the 'filmic' in comics; with the exception of Miller's recent work, and a few others, the epic shot has been butchered wholesale (I'm staring straight at you, Liefield). For a while there it was as if everyone forgot that you read comics, not just look at them and count the buckles on cable's costume.
Thought Bubbles, on the other hand, can ruin the mystery of a character's motivations sometimes, which is why they're best steered clear of when dealing with morally grey material. I think.

Tirian
2008-04-03, 07:31 PM
I just spent some time re-reading vintage comics where the characters used thought bubbles and the square boxes were for an unseen omniscient narrator, and I am almost entirely grateful that those days are behind us. I want to be in the main character's head instead of looking down and being telepathic.

The one place where the Miller thought boxes don't work for me is Superman/Batman. The first time they had a virtual debate like "Clark is probably worried about the civilians, but this needs to end now" / "Why must Bruce press the attack before we get away from the civilians?" it was cute that they knew each other so well. But when it happens every issue you just have to wonder if they only have one brain between the two of them.

Piedmon_Sama
2008-04-04, 01:19 PM
I disagree (well, obviously). Thought bubbles are one of the unique advantages of the medium; and they can be used subtly. Or for comedic effect---read Bendis's Mighty Avengers lately? What his heroes don't say to each other is usually funnier than what they do.

Sure they can be taken overboard, just like anything else---Chris Claremont was always a wordy writer, even when he was good, and sometimes he'd use his thought bubbles as an excuse to give characters long soliloquies at inappropriate times. They can also be used to hint at, rather than spell out, what a character is thinking, or create mystery if thought doesn't (seem to) match action. Just because a device can be used badly doesn't make it bad.