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dman11235
2008-03-21, 07:40 AM
Well, I had a dream. Less of a dream and more of a thought on spell creation that just progressed into this while I was in the shower. And I will be creating a new magic system. Since I am a good ways off still but don't want to forget about the idea, and to get some early feedback, I am creating this thread now. Eventually it will evolve into a base class and some monsters and feats, and maybe some PrCs. Maybe even three base classes. But right now it is a compendium of my thoughts on the subject. Possibly even some binder stuff (you'll see) and MoI stuff (probably not), definitely some psionic stuff.

Use seeds to determine effect, much like epic spellcasting, and use a point system to determine "spells per day" like psionics.

Ideas for seeds: energy: does damage based on how many points you put into it, still working on a range determination factor and energy type.

Death seeds pose a problem, maybe not even have them. Will consider my upcoming fluff in the decision.

Fluff: True sorcerers. They bend the universe around their word (much like truenamers, but this will not be a broken system), with the aid of their magical heritage (unlike truenamers). They are descended from beasts or mighty arcane origins, *insert name here*. In addition to being descended from them, a second base class could just study how to do it (like wizards vs sorc). A third could do something else (gish?). Everyone is in someway related to the original arcane beasts (that had a hand in the creation along side deities), but they are no more and the blood has gotten thinner over time. It's still there it just doesn't manifest. The true sorcerers are descended from a newer version of these beasts.

That's what I've got for now. I know, it's kind of jumbled. But I hope to organize it much like MoI and ToB (3 base, some feats, some magic/special section, somePrCs, other stuff). So this thread will be the start, and then I might make a .pdf later. Right now, though, it's time for work. See you all later tonight!

Mindflayer
2008-03-21, 08:17 AM
Sounds interesting

Mindflayer
2008-03-21, 06:09 PM
I've always liked magic with unlimited spells per day. The idea of having to sleep after preety much every fight I have always found to be idiotic.

Kellus
2008-03-21, 06:17 PM
Interestingly, I've already made a semi-complete de-epic seed spell system here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69882). The fluff is completely off from what you're looking at, with the basic premise being that the spellcasters seal outsiders in their bodies to harness magic from them.

Still, it may be useful if you're looking for ideas for seeds and other mechanics. :smallsmile:

dman11235
2008-03-21, 09:23 PM
Will look at it for inspiration. I need more seeds anyway. Divination is going to roll into time.

dman11235
2008-03-22, 08:57 AM
Energy: Using this seed deals 1d6 points of energy damage to a single target within 25 feet+5 feet/manipulator level as a ranged touch attack. You may choose from fire, cold, electricity, sonic, or acid. If you choose sonic or acid the damage is instead 1d4. The duration is instantaneous.

Augments: you may choose any of the following ways to augment this seed. You must pay separately, unless it states otherwise.

damage: for every two points you allocate into this seed you may deal an additional dice of damage with the attack.

shape: If you pay 4 additional points on this seed, you may create a 10 ft cube of energy instead of a ray. You may allocate the eight 5' squares in any way you want, as long as they are contiguous. For every additional point spent the number of 5' cubes increases by four. This stacks with the damage and extend duration augments. If you use this augment, the affected creatures may make reflex saves for half damage.

Extra Target: You may target an additional creature for every two points you spend on this seed.

range: if you pay an additional 2 points, you may increase the range to 100 ft +10 ft/ML. If you pay an additional 2 points beyond that you may increase the range to 400 ft+40 ft/ML.

duration: If you spend an additional 4 points, you may have the duration last for two rounds. If you apply this to a seed that does not have the shape augment, you do not need to succeed on additional touch attacks to hit the target each round. The damage is automatic if you hit on the first round.

Extend Duration: For every point you spend the duration increases by one round. This augment may only be applied to a seed with a non-instantaneous duration.

Move area: If you spend an additional two points on a seed enhanced with the shape and duration augments, you may move the area each round on your turn. Doing so is a move action. You may move it anywhere and reshape it as you see fit, as long as the area remains contiguous and within range. By spending four points on top of that, you may do this as a swift action.

Force: By spending 2 additional points, you may instead deal force damage. The damage dice is 1d4 for this.

ignore attack: you may spend 4 points to eliminate the touch attack.

defensive energies: By spending 6 additional points, you alter the effects of this seed. Instead of being an attack, it is now a defensive. The manipulating time is now an immediate action. Instead of being an attack, the energy now (safely) sheaths you for one round, and lashes out at any enemy trying to attack you with a non-reach melee weapon. If an enemy targets you with such a weapon, you make a touch attack for the energy. This deals damage as normal. This augment lasts for one round and can be used in conjunction with any but the shape augment. You must use an attack of opportunity to use this to attack your attacker, and as such can attack once for every attack of opportunity you may make.

Extend Defense: By spending 4 points, your defensive energies lasts for one hour per manipulator level.

Offensive defensive energies: You must use the defensive energies to use this augment. By spending 4 points, you may use your defensive energy offensively. For the duration of the seed, you may make melee attacks with the energy surrounding you. You have your normal reach. These are made as touch attacks, but you may make iterative attacks with it. For every two additional points you spend, you may increase your reach by 5 feet.

Empower energy: By spending 3 points, you may multiply the resulting dice rolls for damage by 1.5, as per the empower spell metamagic feat.

Maximize energy: By spending 5 points, you may maximize the effects of this seed, as per the maximize spell metamagic feat.

Light: When using this this seed, you may increase or decrease the intensity of the light in the area. This increases or decreases the darkness category by one step: shadowy to total darkness or normal illumination, etc. If you increase the brightness beyond normal by one step, this dazzles creatures in the area. Two steps blinds the subject for as long as they remain in the light. The area you can affect is one 10' cube. You may arrange the 5' cubes in any way you wish, as long as the cubes are contiguous. This lasts for one round. SR does not apply (as you aren't affecting anything directly). The range is close. This overrides spells and powers of level 1 or lower. If it affects an area that is already affected by a light seed, the second one affects as normal. So a normally light area that has been affected by dark once and then is affected again will yield a total darkness, and then three lights will yield a bright illumination area. In addition, this seed allows you to create motes of color. While it has no apparent game effect, these areas of bent light can allow you to distract people and garner their attention. True Seeing and the like defeats these illusions. These colors can appear within a 10' cube, and you may arrange the 5' cubes in any way you wish. This effect lasts for one round.

Augments: you may choose any of the following ways to augment this seed. You must pay separately, unless it states otherwise.

shape: For each point you may increase the amount of 5' cubes by four.

increase potency: If you spend an additional 4 points, the amount by which the light changes is increased by one step (thus you can change normal to true darkness or blinding). Each additional 4 points spent increases the steps accordingly. In addition, every two points you spend increases the effective spell level that this overrides by one.

duration: for every point you spend, the duration increases by one round. This effect stacks with all others unless stated otherwise. In addition, by spending 4 points, it lasts for one minute per round it would normally last. By spending 7 points the duration is 10 minutes per normal round. And by spending 10 points, it is one hour per round.

Range: by spending an additional two points you may increase the range to medium. By spending two additional points beyond that you may increase the range to long.

Defensive Light/Dark: If you spend 6 additional points, you may use an immediate action to blind an opponent. You create an aura of light around yourself. Any adjacent creature must make a fortitude save or be blinded for a round. Also, any adjacent enemy attacking you is dazzled. For every additional three points you spend, the duration of the blinding increases by one round, and for every additional two points you spend to penalty on attack rolls increases by 1, to a maximum of -10. You must pay for each one individually. You cannot have this active while Defensive Dark is active.
You may alternatively use an immediate action to conceal yourself. You create an aura of dark around you, granting a 10% miss chance. Any creature attempting to use precision damage may still do so. In addition, the sudden darkening of the surroundings surprises adjacent creatures, forcing a fortitude save. If failed, the creatures are disoriented for a round, causing them to be dazed. For every four additional points you spend, the dazed condition lasts for another round. Also, for every three additional points you spend, the miss chance increases by 5%, to a maximum of 50%. You must pay for each of these separately. You cannot have this active while Defensive Light is active. Also, the area that affects creatures on the casting of defensive light/dark increases by 5' for every two points you spend.

Offensive light/dark: You must have either defensive light or dark active to use this. You may extend the aura around you to encompass another creature. That creature must make a save as if they had been subjected to the beginning of defensive light/dark. In addition, if you spend an additional three points, their vision is obscured for a round. If dark, they suffer a 10% miss chance for one round. If light they are dazzled for a round. You may use the duration augment to increase this duration. For every two beyond the first the penalty for the dazzled condition increases by one (max -10) and for every three beyond the first the miss chance increases by 5% (max 50%).

Shared Defense: By spending an additional four points, you may share the light/dark defense with an ally. They gain the benefits as if they were the ones who manipulated it, but you cannot use any of your powers using them as a starting point. In other words, the creatures within 5' must make fortitude saves and suffer the miss chance/penalty, but the ally gains no other benefit. For every additional three points you may affect another ally within range.

Move light: By spending two points you may move the area affected by this light as a move action. By spending four additional points on top of that you may move it as a swift action. You may reallocate the 5' cubes affected in any way you see fit, as long as they remain contiguous and within range.

Distracting Lights: By spending two additional points you may cause the light to move in a distracting fashion. You cause it to play across the area, causing every creature who fails a will save to be fascinated for the duration. They get a will save each round to break the effect. This is a mind affecting effect. In addition, by spending an additional 8 points while manipulating Distracting Lights, you may have it affect those immune to mind affecting effects. This cost does not stack with the duration augmentation.

Minor light trick: By spending two additional points, you may cause a colored light to assume a vague shape. The outline is blurry and the form opaque, but without a spot check DC 20 it is impossible to tell the difference between this and reality. By spending 4 more still the illusion is complete, and cannot be told apart from the real thing save for the epic spot check to defeat illusions.

Fortify Illusion: By spending 6 additional points, true seeing and similar magic cannot defeat the illusion.

Move illusion: By spending four additional points the light created by the minor light trick augment can move at your discretion. It must stay within the area designated, but can move about that area as you see fit. For example, if you have a 5' cube of illusion and a humanoid wielding a sword as the illusion, you may have it make attacking motions at things in its square, but not outside of that 5' cube. "Instructing" it to make a different action takes a free action that can be taken any time, effectively granting you total control over it.

Defensive Illusion: You may activate the light seed with this augment by spending an additional 3 points. You create an area around your self created by 2 5' cubes. Inside these cubes you can create rough copies of yourself. This is as the minor light trick. These illusions can be anything you want, but are typically used to create illusions of yourself, to throw off attackers. The shape manipulation does not work with this one. The cubes may be in any pattern you wish, as long as they are contiguous and at lest one is adjacent to you.

shared defense: you may create illusions for an ally with your defensive illusion within range by spending an additional 3 points. You may affect an additional ally for every three points.

extra defense: When using your defensive illusion, you may spend an additional two points to gain an additional illusion in an adjacent space. This may be used by an ally instead if you use that augment as well.

invisibility: By spending 4 more points, you may render yourself invisible. This is not a true invisibility, as you can still be seen vaguely, but you still have total concealment and attack targets as flat-footed. If you spend an additional 4 points, the invisibility is complete, and you cannot be pinpointed by sight alone. This invisibility is unique in that mundane methods such as flour do not work to pinpoint you, you bend the light around yourself.

Mass invisibility: by spending 4 additional points, you may make an ally invisible. You may affect another ally per 4 points spent. Every ally affected must be within range, and if they move out of range they lose the benefit of the invisibility.

This may be all the augments I need for light. Need opinions.

dman11235
2008-03-23, 05:36 PM
Time is only available through the Chronomancer PrC.

Time: Using this seed you may manipulate time flow. Using this seed speeds or slows the passage of time by a small amount in a small area. You may choose to speed time, granting any creature in the area +10 ft speed, and a +1 haste bonus on attack rolls and AC. If you sow the speed of time, each creature in the area receives a -10 ft penalty to speed and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC. SR does apply to this effect. The area affected is one 5' cube. In order to be affected by the speed changes, a creature must remain inside the area for their entire movement (two move actions are two different movements). The AC and attack roll penalty only applies if the creature is inside the area at the time of the attack. You have a minimum speed of 5'.

Augments:
duration: for every two points you spend the duration increases by one round. This bonus stacks with all others unless stated otherwise.

shape: for every point you spend you gain four more 5' cubes of time affected area. The cubes must be contiguous, but otherwise may be laced in any formation you wish.

range: if you pay an additional 2 points you may increase the range to medium. If you pay an additional 2 points beyond that you may increase the range to long.

increase potency: For every three points you spend the speed change increases by 10 ft and the attack roll and AC modifier increases by 1.

Temporal Defense: By spending six points you may create a buffer of slightly varying temporal speeds, granting you a +2 temporal bonus to AC. This may be used as an immediate action. This effect does not stack with the duration augment. For every two additional points you spend the bonus to AC increases by 1. This does stack with the duration augment. The shape augment cannot be used at the same time.

Temporal Offense: By spending 5 points you may create a solidified whip of time.You may wield it as a normal whip, but you make touch attacks and the damage is 1d4). You may increase the damage by 1d4 for every two additional points you spend.

Vicious Time Whip: By spending 4 additional points on the Temporal Offense, you may cause your strikes to be particularly disorienting. If struck, a creature must make a fort save or be sickened for one round. If you spend an additional four points they are nauseated on a failed save and sickened on a successful save.

Strong Time Warp: By spending six points, you may the time in an area enough to cause a visible change in the time flow. By speeding up time, you give those in the area the benefits of a Haste spell, though the speed boost is +20 ft and the attack/AC boost is +2. By slowing down time you give those inside the area the effects of a Slow spell, though the penalty is -2 instead of -1. See the seed description for information on how creatures entering the area are affected.

Extreme Time Warp: The most extreme of the time augments, this one slows so much that it seems to stopor speed it up so much that it seems to stop for you. By spending 13 points, you may use this augment. By speeding time, you may take a full round as if your turn just started. You treat all others as paralyzed during this power. This may only be applied personally, and does not affect an area. If you slow time, you affect an area as normal. In the area, creatures are frozen, as if time has stopped. They are treated as paralyzed to all outside the area. Anything that enters the area is immediately stopped. Any ranged attacks, thrown creatures, etc. are resolved at the end of the stopped time. All attack rolls are resolved before hand, but damage and remaining falling is resolved after the end of the power. If a creature moves int the area, it forfeits the rest of its actions. By spending an additional 6 points, the duration increases by one round. After that, every four points yields an additional round.

Create: This seed allows you to create matter. For one round, you may create a small amount of matter. You may create 5 lbs of any inorganic and non-toxic matter. Created matter cannot be in any processed form.

Augments:
Duration: For every point you spend, the duration increases by one round. This effect stacks with all others, unless stated otherwise. In addition, by spending 4 points, it lasts for one minute per round it would normally last. By spending 7 points the duration is 10 minutes per normal round. And by spending 10 points, it is one hour per round.

Amount: The amount affected increases to 20 lbs/point spent.

Range: by spending 2 points, the range increases to medium. By spending 4 points, the range increases to long.

Conjuration Defense: By spending 6 points, you may conjure an aura of stuff around you. This aura grants a +3 armor bonus to AC. The stuff must be inorganic and non-toxic. This bonus increases by one for every two additional points spent on it. The duration augment only stacks with this second half of the augment. The material may be changed as a swift action.

Conjuration Offense: By spending 4 additional points with your conjuration defense, you may turn around and strike with the aura of matter around you. This deals 1d6+your key ability modifier points of bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage at your option, and may be of any material you conjure for it. It counts as a magic weapon for damage reduction and hitting incorporeal, and you may use your dexterity modifier on attack rolls. You must target normal AC. You may use this in place of your normal attacks.

Enhanced Conjuration Offense: for every 3 additional points spent, you receive a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage with your conjuration offense. Alternatively, you may spend 3 additional points to increase the dice size one step.

Conjure Loose Matter: by spending 6 additional points, you may create an aura of cloudy air, typically sand. This grants 20% concealment to those inside the area. The area is 1 5' cube per point spent (so spending 6 point to manifest this grants 6 5' cubes) By spending 4 additional points the area grants total concealment.

Conjure Poison: By spending 4 additional points on the conjure loose matter or conjuration offense, you may instead summon a highly toxic material. This deals 1d4 con damage primary and secondary. You may augment this by increasing the damage by 1d4 for every 5 points spent. The Conjuration Offense deals this on every successful strike and the Conjure Loose Materials deals this every round to creatures inside on your turn.

Aura of Creation: By spending 5 points, you may create an area of creation energies, giving every object and creature (including undead and constructs) fast healing one. For every point beyond the first 6 you spend the fast healing increases by one. This occurs in an area of four contiguous 5' cubes, arranged in any way you wish. This effect lasts for one round, and stacks with the duration augment. In addition, for every additional point you spend the area increases by four 5' cubes.

Destroy: With this seed you may destroy matter for brief periods of time. Using this seed deals 1d4 points of damage to an object or creature within close range, ignoring hardness. Destroyed matter returns in the same orientation as when it was removed from the universe, but it does not automatically re-attach itself to the object it was removed from. In other words, the damage remains after the matter reappears. If the space is occupied, the matter is shunted off to the nearest available space and acts accordingly.

Augments:
Damage: For every two points you spend the damage you deal increases by 1d4.

Range: by spending 2 points, the range increases to medium. By spending 4 points, the range increases to long.

Shape: By spending six points, you may create an area that deals one point of damage every round to every creature and object in it, even undead and constructs. This happens in four 5' cubes, arranged in any way you wish, as long as they are contiguous. For every point beyond the first six the fast damaging increases by one. This stacks with the duration augment. In addition, for every additional point you spend the area increases by four 5' cubes.

Duration: For every point you spend, the duration increases by one round. This effect stacks with all others, unless stated otherwise. In addition, by spending 4 points, it lasts for one minute per round it would normally last. By spending 7 points the duration is 10 minutes per normal round. And by spending 10 points, it is one hour per round. This augment may only be applied to the seed if the seed already has a duration, whether from the shape or defensive destruction augments.

Defensive Destruction: By spending six additional points, you may create an aura of destructive energies around you. This lowers the damage you take from any physical attack by one point. The energies around you very briefly destroy part of the attack, just long enough to lessen the blow. This augment is unique in that the destroyed matter is replaced in the object it came from, thus not causing damage to it. Note that this is not actually damage reduction, as it does not affect you, but rather affects the attacking weapon. Only physical attacks may be reduced in effectiveness, and this includes spells like Deadfall and Splinterbolt, but excludes the Force weapon enchantment. You may increase the amount by which damage is reduced by one for every additional point spent.

Offensive Defensive Destruction: By spending an additional four points, you may turn your defensive aura of destruction in to an offensive force. You extend the aura and concentrate it, requiring a touch attack to hit the target. If you do hit, you deal 1d6 points of damage, ignoring hardness. This damage increases by 1d6 for every two additional points you spend. You may only target something within 5' with this. You may use this in place of your normal attacks.

Extend Offense: For every additional two points you spend the range for your offensive defensive destruction increases by 5'.

Bhu
2008-03-28, 02:16 AM
I'd like to PEACH but it's a bit to go thru. Gimme some time.

dman11235
2008-03-28, 11:27 AM
It's not even done yet, but any feedback is welcome. Particularly with seed designs. Others might see something I missed, and might be able to come up with areas I missed to allow you to actually do anything* you want with the ability to control the universe.

Things to come later: getting rid of the Time seed. The splitting of the space seed to accomidate some combo of creation/destruction/summoning/movement/enhancement (physical attribute boosting and such), much like I did with light/illusion. The other two classes (won't be hard once I get the first one done).

*by anything I mean you can control energy, space, light, etc. If you were powerful enough you could do anything.

EDIT: I don't think I will add many mor class features, and just have the detect magic at level 5. If I find it to be lacking, I'll have to think of something. The DS will have some divine abilities and will be more combat oriented and the TW will have some knowledge abilities.

Bhu
2008-03-29, 03:57 PM
Why are you nixing the time seed?

dman11235
2008-03-29, 08:13 PM
It's easy to eleminate (I can restrict it to just controlling space, not space/time) and it's giving me a headache to balance. If I have a seed, it needs to go all the way through to the pinacle of controlling that aspect of the universe, and time would be stopping time (or having it go so fast it seems to stop for others). Time Stop is a potentially broken spell, and this would be even worse. And the lower level augments are nigh impossible to get right: either useless compared to others or too powerful. If you can find a way to get it balanced, be my guest, but I'd rather nix it than overpower the seed.

EDIT: I put a strike through through time, so I can ignore it without deleting it (it was a lot of work, I'd hate to see it go to waste) and put in some more text in earlier posts (changed/added a couple augments, including a extended duration one).

Well, more long flight time tomorrow, maybe I can get some more ideas down (and maybe the other two classes). Good night and good luck!

dman11235
2008-04-04, 05:48 PM
Okay, two reasons (three reasons) for this.

1) let you know I'm not slacking off, I've been trying to make up the classes and finalize the system, but not much of that at all can be put up here (it's in my brain) so I haven't put anything here.

2) OPEN CASTING CALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looking for artists. If interested, PM me, and include a sample.

3) Who wants to keep summoning? It is proving to be troublesome. I want to keep it because, well, what kind of matter creation is complete without it? If there is enough love for it, it will stay, otherwise manipulators will not have enough control over created matter to form complex systems like organs and such. Golems are right out though (it's not the same as arcane magic, though it is arcane). Same with elementals (no planar magic really). Or undead. Mainly just material plane natives.

dman11235
2008-04-06, 01:28 PM
Okay, still looking for artists. Please? Can anyone out there draw good?

Also, I have decided that the DS will instead be a PrC, because really that's where it belongs. In its place will be a gish type class. Not sure how to do it, but it will likely not gain use of seeds, at least not in the same way that the TS and TW do.

And also still, I have the TS done except for fluff, but not in here. It will be posted when the time has come (i.e., when I have everything else ready as well).

dman11235
2008-04-09, 09:54 PM
So are these boards a collection of anti-artists? There has to be somebody who can do it and wants to! I'll pay you in imaginary money even!

Also, any love for summoning? If not, then the complex systems of creatures are too delicate to recreate by this, and the souls are impossible. So you will be limited to non-lining matter of non-toxic origins (to avoid cheese). Toxic material will be allowed as a feat later. In fact, each time you create something, it must be a single substance.

I'm thinking that I will "officially" release the system (when it's done of course) and then release the time augments as a PrC in a secondary thread. Sort of like a homebrew to a homebrew. Cause who doesn't want to mess with time?

Bhu
2008-04-10, 12:27 AM
Oh man. I'd love to PEACH Dman, but between the Percocets and the long hours I spend working on my internet side job, the words jsut seem to blur together when I hve time to look at the forum. Might also help if it werent so....white.

dman11235
2008-04-10, 10:45 AM
Genomancer:
GENOMANCER

picture URL

ĒI hold the power of creation in my soulĒ

-Roodar Murnig, gnome genomancer

The wielders of the true arcane power, the genomancer does not manipulate reality, rather the genomancer works with it. Their slightly stronger blood than most allows them to find the threads of arcane energy left over from the creation of all, and allows them to shape the universe using this spare energy.

MAKING A GENOMANCER
Genomancers typically try to stay away from melee combat, due to their lack of armor or weapon selection. They tend to do their work as either a support or ranged attacker. They also can make good leaders with their usually high charisma score. Due to some of the augments though, they can make quite decent melee combatants, though suffer from their poor base attack bonus.

Abilities: Constitution is the most important ability for genomancers, since it determines bonus augment points per day. For those who wish to directly affect opponents, Charisma is another important stat, because it determines the save DC. Dexterity is also important due to the lack of armor. Intelligence is useful for more skill points, and wisdom is useful to increase will saves.

Races: Every race can have the blood in them to utilize true magic, but humans tend to practice more than others due to their versatility. Elves also are common practitioners. Half-orcs and dwarves tend to shy away from this sort of magic.

Alignment: Genomancers can be of any alignment, but tend towards true neutral. The nature of true magic is not inherently any alignment, and can be used to meet any end. However due to the fact that true magic was a part of the creation of everything, balance has a small influence on practitioners.

Starting Gold: 3d4x10 (75 gp).
Starting Age: As sorcerer.

Class Skills
A genomancerís class skills (and the key ability) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (Arcana)(Int), Knowledge (Planes)(Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (2 + int)x4
Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 2 + int

Hit Dice: d6

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Augments|Points

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|
Create Item|
1|
1

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|
-|
2|
3

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|
Easier Manipulating +1|
3|
8

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|
-|
4|
13

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|
Detect Magic|
5|
19

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|
Easier Manipulating +2|
6|
26

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|
-|
7|
34

8th|
+6|
+2|
+2|
+6|
Extra Augmenting +1|
8|
43

9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6|
Easier Manipulating +3|
9|
54

10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+7|
-|
10|
67

11th|
+8|
+3|
+3|
+7|
-|
11|
81

12th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|
Easier Manipulating +4|
12|
97

13th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|
-|
13|
114

14th|
+10|
+4|
+4|
+9|
-|
14|
143

15th|
+11|
+5|
+5|
+9|
Easier Manipulating +5|
15|
160

16th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|
Extra Augmenting +2|
16|
182

17th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|
-|
17|
204

18th|
+13|
+6|
+6|
+11|
Easier Manipulating +6|
18|
228

19th|
+14|
+6|
+6|
+11|
-|
19|
252

20th|
+15|
+6|
+6|
+12|
-|
20|
277[/table]

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The genomancer gain proficiency with all simple weapons and no armor or shields.

Seeds (su): A genomancer has the ability to manipulate the universe as he sees fit. This power manifests in a fairly weak form, and as they become stronger the power they can exert over the universe increases. A genomancer gains the ability to use seeds at will. They require a standard action unless stated otherwise. A genomancer may use any seed available at any time, since it is an at will ability. He knows every seed.

Augments (su): Using an augment allows a genomancer to manipulate the universe to a greater effect. A genomancer gains a number of daily points that may be spent as a part of the manifesting of the seed which allow for a more complex or powerful version of the seed. A TS only knows a small number of augments, as indicated in the table. Also, he gains additional points as per the Psionic Bonus Power points table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm#tableAbilityModifiersandBonusPowerPoints ), or by following the formula 1/2*manipulator level*ability modifier, using constitution as the ability.

When augmenting a seed, a genomancer may only spend a number of points equal to their effective manipulator level.

A genomancer must get a good nightís sleep to regain any spent augment points.

Create Item: A genomancer is so in tune with the arcane magics that he is able to create magic items. A genomancerís class level counts as his caster level for the purposes of qualifying for item creation feats and for creating the items.

Though they are able to somewhat duplicate the arcane rituals required to create magic items, they are still unable to recreate the spells, so they cannot create spell trigger items, or other such things, like wands, scrolls, staffs, etc. They are only able to create wondrous items, rings, magic weapons and armor, and other such items. They count as if they knew the requisite spell to create the item, even if they normally wouldnít, and do not need to sacrifice spell slots to create the item either. Creation using this method is tough on the body and soul though, and it requires double the normal xp expenditure to create.

Easier Manipulating (su): At level 3, a genomancer becomes able to more easily augment his seeds. You may reduce the total point expenditure by augmenting by one point, to a minimum of 0. For example, a genomancer with the damage augment for energy may now create a 2d6 energy blast without spending any points, or may create a 3d6 blast by spending only one point. The amount reduced increases by one for every three additional levels. The points reduced still count to the manipulator cap on point expenditure.

Detect Magic (sp): A genomancer becomes able to better see the arcane magics around him at level 5, granting him the ability to cast Detect Magic at will.

Extra Augmenting (su): Your manipulator level for the purposes of augmentation increases by one at level 8 and every eight levels there after.

PLAYING A GENOMANCER
Since genomancers donít know very many augments, but can more easily augment seeds with more power, they typically focus on one seed and use that as their combat tactics. Blasting is particularly useful and easily done, as you only need to use a few augments for it, depending on how you wish to augment it.

Religion: Genomancers arenít typically religious, but those who do follow a deity tend to worship arcane deities like Boccob and Wee Jas.
Other Classes: Genomancers work well with front line fighter protecting them from melee fighting. They tend to shy away from forming partnerships with arcanists such as wizards and sorcerers, as they view their form of magic cruel towards the universe and perverse in nature. They have less of an issue with clerics, who just donít know better, and druids who attempt to live in harmony with the land.
Combat: There are many different tactics you can approach combat with. One common method is buffing and debuffing, using seeds such as light and illusion to try and control the enemy and help your allies. There is also the ranged attack approach, where you utilize seeds such as energy and space to cause damage from afar. Then there are the few who utilize certain augments to wade into melee, though with their medium base attack bonus and lack of armor proficiencies those who follow this method are not very common.
Advancement: Most genomancers discover their heritage by accident, as there is little way to tell who will receive the stronger blood capable of manifesting their raw power. Perhaps though there was a prophecy told by your tribeís shaman, or the order of the church where your family is a part of divined that you would herald great power from creation. Regardless of how you came to find your power, you have trained to allow yourself to control that power.

Your augments known will dictate your play style, so the appropriate feats would be a good thing to invest in. Point Blank Shot for ranged combat, Dodge and Combat Expertise for melee to allow more survivability, etc.

GENOMANCERS IN THE WORLD
They think they know the power of true arcane, but they donít. I hold the power of the arcane! I do!

ĖMialee, elven wizard.

Genomancers are typically perceived as outcasts in arcane circles, possibly because they are viewed with jealousy, possibly because they are viewed as a threat.
Daily Life: You have inherited great power from someone or something. And that someone is likely to be interfering with your life. A lot. Some genomancers begin to feel they are little more than pawns in the games of their ancestors, who may or may not still be around.
Notables: Genomancers donít tend to have any notable figures, as they tend to keep to themselves. However there are a few who believe that their power is a gift that should be shared with the world, whether for good or evil intentions. Atticus Gimbly was a gnome genomancer who believed just that. He was the head of the Association of Genomancers for the Protection of Life. Not all genomancers are good, and Krusk the Orc-blooded is an example of that. He led his fellow half-breeds to war against a group of elves and eventually used his powers to commit atrocities against full-blooded races.
Organizations: There are dozens of organizations for a genomancer. Generally they will gravitate towards one created by their predecessors, and are opposed by organizations made by that predecessors enemies. The goals and abilities of each vary wildly depending on what gave birth to them.

NPC Reaction
Most NPCs will treat a genomancer with indifference, or would treat them like they would treat a Sorcerer. Due to the magical nature of the class, some races may have superstitions about them, and may either worship or immediately attack them.

GENOMANCERS IN THE GAME
Genomancers will fit in almost anywhere, not overshadowing any class at any one thing, though they might do better at blasting than some.
Adaptation: The genomancer is very easy to adapt to any campaign. Basically any place that has arcane energies will be able to support this class, so the only problems will likely be low/no magic settings.
Encounters: Encounters with a genomancer will likely involve ranged combat mostly, as this is what the genomancer excels at. Though other methods of combat are certainly possible, this is how most will fight.

Bhu
2008-04-12, 12:46 AM
You might wanna add some Force effects to the energy seed. otherwise they tend to be a tad vulnerable to incorporeal undead.

dman11235
2008-04-13, 09:22 AM
Okay I have one PrC idea, and I'd like to get it down here. I'll go ahead and get the divine PrC idea down too.

Time Disciple: Uses the powers of creation to manipulate time. Class features: access to the time seed, using previous seed powers as augment tools. Learns augments as per the PrC, and can only use these to learn time augments. Cannot learn time augments with anything but augments learned from the PrC. Will have some other time oriented abilities as class features, but will not advance either Easy Manipulating or Extra Augment.

Divine Manipulator: Believes that this power to control the universe is sent from the deities themselves, and gains abilities similar to the Pious Templar and other divine based PrCs. Advances manipulating at a slower rate, but gains some nice class features to help provide a more crusader-y feel.

dman11235
2008-04-14, 09:05 AM
Still looking for artists.

I do finally have a way to split the space seed: Destruction and Creation. I'll get on updating it ASAP, but not until after work. Here's a taste of how I'll do it: most of the ones already have an option for destruction and creation, those'll be easy. The defensive one will be split and the creation will have an AC bonus, and destruction Damage Reduction. But it's not actually DR, it's a reduction in damage (so force and transmuting won't have an effect. Well, maybe force will, but Transmuting definitely won't). Movement will be under destruction, because one option would be to destroy and re-create a ways away. I also have an idea for ways to combine seeds, and this will be one of them. They may be feats, I haven't figured that part out yet. That's all for now, and if you draw good, tell me.

dman11235
2008-04-14, 09:47 PM
Okay, I went through the energy seed and did some touching up, and I want some opinions on it. I'm trying to balance the points per day so that they can spend 16 points 14 times per day from just the class stuff. I'll get on that tomorrow (I'm tired). Why 16? Because that's the number spent when they "nova" ("spend" 22 points on a seed), and psion/wilders get their 20 17 times per day, and since these guys have at will, but less powerful, abilities, they get fewer points per day. I made that number 14. I may increase the number of times they get +1 to their manipulator level and their Enhanced Augment ability, but I'm not sure. Trying to get a reasonable balance so the defensive/offensive energy/creation/destruction is actually worth taking.

Now, I gave the TS medium BAB, because I felt it deserved that for some of the likely builds. These being tanks using either energy or creation or destruction as their focus, and having good "melee" damage there with the defensive/offensive augments. Also being able to force enemy's hands with reach eventually, and if creation trip/disarm (you'll find out...).

And still looking for artists... Want to prove your worth? Show off? Please? I'd rather not google images that are close and copyrighted.

dman11235
2008-04-17, 04:29 PM
Originist:
ORIGINIST

Picture URL

I have researched the origins of all, and now I wield its power!

-Seltia Thouth, raptoran originist

These studious people are the scholars of the creation magics. Rather than relying on their heritage to provide power, they study how to bring out the power of their lesser blood. Though they share many similarities to the genomancer, originists are more versatile in their seeds but are also weaker with the manipulations.

MAKING AN ORIGINIST
Due to the fact that they know many more augments, but have less of an opportunity to utilize these augments, than the genomancer, originists tend to focus on their versatility more than power. You should load up on more smaller augments to provide different stacking effects rather than using one augment to produce a larger single effect.
Abilities: Constitution is the most important stat for originists, and intelligence is a close second due to the save DCs being keyed off of it.
Races: Basically how common is the class in the various core races (and other races if you wish to put information in here about them).
Alignment: Originists can be of any alignment, but tend to be lawful more often than not, due to the extreme dedication sometimes required to master the arts.
Starting Gold: 3d4x10 (75 gp)
Starting Age: As Wizard.

Class Skills
The originist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (2 + int)x4
Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 2 + int

Hit Dice: d4

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Augments|Points

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|
Detect Magic, Lore, Create Item|
3|
0*

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|
-|
5|
1

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|
-|
7|
4

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|
-|
9|
8

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|
Easier Manipulating +1|
11|
13

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|
-|
13|
19

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|
-|
15|
26

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|
-|
17|
43

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|
-|
19|
60

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|
Easier Manipulating +2|
21|
76

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|
-|
22|
61

12th|
+6|
+4|
+4|
+8||
24|
73

13th|
+6|
+4|
+4|
+8|
-|
25|
86

14th|
+7|
+4|
+4|
+9|
-|
27|
107

15th|
+7|
+5|
+5|
+9|
Easier Manipulating +3|
28|
120

16th|
+8|
+5|
+5|
+10|
-|
30|
136

17th|
+8|
+5|
+5|
+10|
-|
31|
153

18th|
+9|
+6|
+6|
+11||
33|
171

19th|
+9|
+6|
+6|
+11|
-|
34|
189

20th|
+10|
+6|
+6|
+12|
Easier Manipulating +4|
36|
208[/table]
*The originist does not gain any augment points from class levels at level one, but does gain points as normal from a high constitution score.

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The originist is proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armor or shield.

Seeds (su): An originist has the ability to manipulate the universe as he sees fit. This power manifests in a fairly weak form, and as they become stronger the power they can exert over the universe increases. An originist gains the ability to use seeds at will. They require a standard action unless stated otherwise. An originist may use any seed available at any time, since it is an at will ability. He knows every seed.

Augments (su): Using an augment allows an originist to manipulate the universe to a greater effect. An originist gains a number of daily points that may be spent as a part of the manifesting of the seed which allow for a more complex or powerful version of the seed. An originist only knows a certain number of augments, as indicated in the table. Also, he gains additional points as per the Psionic Bonus Power points table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm#tableAbilityModifiersandBonusPowerPoints ), or by following the formula 1/2*manipulator level*ability modifier, using constitution as the ability.

When augmenting a seed, an originist may only spend a number of points equal to their effective manipulator level.

An originist must get a good nightís sleep to regain spent augment points.

Detect Magic (sp): An originist has studied the arcane for a long time, and has unlocked hidden talent for detecting such magics. An originist may cast Detect Magic at will as a standard action.

Lore: Through their studies, an originist has come across a vast array of knowledge. They gain the ability to make lore checks, which function exactly as Bardic Music other than the fact that they add their Intelligence modifier and originist class levels to the check. This stacks with other similar abilities like a Loremasterís lore or a Bardís bardic music.

Create Item: An originist is so in tune with the arcane magics that he is able to create magic items. An originistís class level counts as his caster level for the purposes of qualifying for item creation feats and for creating the items.

Though they are able to somewhat duplicate the arcane rituals required to create magic items, they are still unable to recreate the spells, so they cannot create spell trigger items, or other such things, like wands, scrolls, staffs, etc. They are only able to create wondrous items, rings, magic weapons and armor, and other such items. They count as if they knew the requisite spell to create the item, even if they normally wouldnít, and do not need to sacrifice spell slots to create the item either. Creation using this method is tough on the body and soul though, and it requires double the normal xp expenditure to create.

Easier Manipulating (su): At level 5, an originist becomes able to more easily augment his seeds. You may reduce the total point expenditure by augmenting by one point, to a minimum of 0. For example, an originist with the damage augment for energy may now create a 2d6 energy blast without spending any points, or may create a 3d6 blast by spending only one point. The amount reduced increases by one for every five additional levels. The points reduced still count to the manipulator cap on point expenditure.

PLAYING AN ORIGINIST
An originistís power lies in versatility, not brute force. They typically focus on getting a lot of small bonuses or multiple small offenses rather than a small number of large bonuses like the genomancer. Party buffing and enemy de-buffing is typically their strong suit.

Religion: Originists donít typically follow a deity, but those who do tend to follow deities of knowledge or arcane dealings like Boccob.
Other Classes: Originists tend to do well with other non-magic using classes and tend to look down on arcanists like wizards and sorcerers who twist the universe for their own gains rather than work with the universe to accomplish what they set out to do. They have little issue with divine casters like clerics and druids because the divine casters just donít know better.
Combat: An originist typically utilizes their vast number of augments to provide large numbers of small buffs and de-buffs, due to the fact that blasting is not as strong with them, and they cannot keep it up as long as the genomancer can. The originist typically starts combat with the light and illusion seeds, or the creation and destruction seeds, granting himself and allies a bunch of smaller bonuses and hurting the enemy with bunch of small penalties.
Advancement: Most originists study for years trying to master their art. Since their power is weak compared to the True Wizard, they have to continue studying to bring out what little power they have and concentrate it enough to allow control of it.

Since your power comes from versatility, feat choices like meta-seed feats really help, allowing you to take your augments even further. Of course, some feats like Improved Initiate help so you can get your bonuses out faster.

ORIGINISTS IN THE WORLD
TheseÖoriginists as they call themselves, they claim the universe is on their side. This is a scary thought.

-Hennet, human sorcerer

Originists are viewed in a very condescending manner by wizards due to the long standing feud between arcane sources. Possibly this is jealousy on the part of the wizards, who donít have a very good report with the universe.
Daily Life: Study, study, study. If you arenít reading on something, or studying it in the field, youíre practicing your abilities to better master them. Little else holds value for you. This makes people feel youíre a little cold and standoffish. But if that means they only interrupt you when itís important, thatís a decent tradeoff as far as youíre concerned.
Notables:
Organizations: Some information about organizations dedicated to the practice of your class and other organizations which members of your class will be attracted towards.

NPC Reaction
NPCs generally treat you the same as they would a sorcerer or a wizard. Those who know better than to ask you to cast a spell for them have a split reaction, either shunning you for not being helpful or just not being an arcanist, or indifferent because they just donít care. Some originists are held in high regard once they master the craft, if only because of the spiritual connection to the universe its self.

ORIGINISTS IN THE GAME
An originist is fine as the only PC utilizing this system, as they are flexible enough to adapt to most any setting. They may find it a little more exciting to occasionally run across others that utilize this system, but it is not a necessity for this system to work.
Adaptation: Originists can be used easily in most any campaign setting. They can fit in most anywhere arcane magic exists, but in settings with low/no magic they would be out of place.
Encounters: An encounter with an originist will likely involve more enemies than just the originist, as they perform better as buffers and de-buffers rather than offensive mages. However they can be used easily as a boss monster, with minions and the like to do the dirty work for him.

dman11235
2008-04-19, 11:02 PM
Well, it's almost a month past, and I'm nearly ready to start play testing. I've got three of the coming posts done in word files (ready to copy/paste, coding and everything!) and the seed one (possibly the first of two, I'll have to see how many characters they are) started. Now the bad news: stupid brain won't spit out a third base class. Every thing I try ends up already having been done, and not even in the massive banks of homebrews I've seen, in official WotC stuff. The PrCs are coming, and since I was able to find someone else to help out with the monsters I'm good there. I've got two of the PrC ideas already (as I have said, divine and time), and I'm running through some others now. I'm thinking a hybrid divine caster/geneomancer (though I might take that for the TS's actual name...), a hybrid psionics/geneomancer, a hybrid incarnum/geneomancer (a natural fit flavorwise), a hunter of the arcane (screw you Occult Slayer!), a martial one (gish like, but it will have to be quite a bit different than your run-of-the-mill Eldritch Knight, if I do it, it will be fun....), and I've got a couple other possibilities in mind as well.

In other news, I have potential for an artist, but if anyone else still wants to, better hurry, I'm having to beat off artists with a stick:smallsigh:

In other, other news, I have no idea what to do with the illusion seed. It needs to stay, but light and illusion are way too similar to remain separate. But it requires way too many augments to keep them together, and I have two very different defense and offense augments for them, which has kind of been my guiding light as to whether or not it should be a seed. Though I may have a solution: combining seeds. And separate light/dark, like I did with create/destroy. Illusion will be a combo seed. So, I would have teleportation and illusion as combo seeds, and I have an idea for energy/creation. I think I will do this.

I'm tired, and I work in the morning. See ya'll later.

Bhu
2008-04-24, 02:32 AM
Hey I'll have that stuff I promised you done shortly.

dman11235
2008-04-27, 06:15 PM
Jeeze it's been way too long since I last worked on this. I've been horrible like that lately. I'll get an update soon, but I don't have much more I can do until I get some play testing done. I'm thinking I'll get started on some of the PrCs here in a bit. Luckily two of the three base classes are done, save for some fluff bits. I have the intro done, it just needs some editing, and the seed overview will be next. I'll get that done later tonight. I won't post it here though. This'll just let you know I'm not giving up on this yet.

dman11235
2008-05-05, 02:46 PM
Okay, the third class is done here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79638), I just need to correct the flavor for it.

I also have one more PrC idea that will be brought to life: shifter/rogue-esque. Goal is to increase effective shifter level for some stuffs and grant sneak attack, requiring SA, SS, or Skirmish.

EDIT: I'd really like some suggestions on the points I've allocated and point cost. This part is much a mystery, and is going to be really hard to balance on my own. I'd also like some feedback on the Shifter, due to a very similar problem.

I can't really do much more right now before fixing up these issues.

dman11235
2008-05-07, 11:56 AM
Okay, I think I'm set on base classes now. I still need some helping in point values, but that won't affect anything in the realm of PrCs. So I'm ready to start on them. The up to date list of PrCs to be made is (there will be 10):

Shifter Skirmisher: a shifter/scout (but can be entered by any shifter with SA, SS, or Skirmish) that advances the shifting abilities you already have (kind of like Bardic Music PrCs) and grants some mobility abilities and special attack damage. Made to emulate the wolf in all its glory.-10 lvl

The Something Reminiscent of Binders/Genomancers: Name not found yet, a binder/genomancer hybrid that advances both and grants some cross over abilities available, particularly focusing on the vestige of the last genolith (yeah, I'm getting a new vestige!).-10 lvl

Chronomancer: Made for genomancers, but available to originists as well, it focuses on the time seed, first granting access to it, and also granting one time augment (only available through the class) per level. Also has some time related cha based class features, and the only way to get the best time augment is at level 10.-10 lvl

Incarnomancer: incarnum/origin cross. Includes some combo abilities, much like the incarnum/magic hybrid PrC. This one is because incarnum+origins is a match made in heaven flavorwise.-10 lvl

Physicist: an originist PrC focusing on the creation and destruction seeds (ironic, huh?). Gains movement abilities, like the teleportation bit. Also gains some scholarly bits.-5 lvl

Divine Manipulator: a PrC for mainly genomancers (they've got the BAB to support it) that focuses on the gish aspect of the class. A character who believes his powers come from the heavens to spread their god's will (or cause's will). Gains armor proficiencies, full BAB, and some nifty melee abilities.-10 lvl

More come as I think of them. I will need one more PrC for the shifter. I might do a psionics/origin dual class, but I might not. No, probably not. I need some more non-dual class PrCs.

EDIT: One item will be a Wilding Clasp sort of deal, but less broken.

dman11235
2008-05-12, 09:33 PM
Extra Augment
Prerequisites: Manipulator level 3
Benefits: You gain knowledge of one additional augment
Special: You may take this feat more than once.

Favored Augment
Prerequisites: Manipulator level 6
Benefits: Choose an augment. Every time you manipulate a seed using this augment, you pay one augment point less than normal, to a minimum of one point. This does not allow you to augment beyond what you normally could. For example, a level 10 genomancer with Favored Augment (damage) for the energy seed could spend 7 points and fully augment it with respect to damage, but could not spend 8 points and get the effect of 12 points spent.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time you take it, it applies to a different augment.

I will be adding the magic item creation bit in just a second as well.

Bhu
2008-05-19, 01:38 AM
Hey Dman? You still out tehre? Peek in your PM's :smallbiggrin:

dman11235
2008-05-19, 08:43 AM
Oh I have. You already gave me that stuff, I wasn't sure what it was.

Anyways, I'll have an update soon. Wednesday it looks like. It's a PrC...

Bhu
2008-05-20, 03:18 AM
Oh I have. You already gave me that stuff, I wasn't sure what it was.

Anyways, I'll have an update soon. Wednesday it looks like. It's a PrC...

Actually what I originally sent you was the preview. It still needed some stuff added :D

That one was the finished one.

Mindflayer
2008-12-08, 12:02 PM
This may be thread necromancy, but whatever happened to this GREAT SYSTEM?

Mindflayer
2008-12-08, 01:48 PM
This may be thread necromancy but, whatever happened to this AMAZING SPELL SYSTEM?

dman11235
2008-12-09, 12:17 PM
What happened was I didn't know where I was going with it anymore and I'm doing an overhaul now. It'll be done eventually. One thing that's happening is that I'm switching over to a /encounter point system, because I realized a major inherent flaw with all /day systems. Also I don't really know the limit on what seeds should be able to do, and that's proving difficult to get right.